second, the second, to study evidence actually exist? today the top democrat on the house intelligence committee says he doesn't think so. >> i don't expect we'll see any evidence of this either. i agree with timecard. one of two possibilities here. the president quite deliberately for some reason made up this charge are perhaps more disturbing the president really believes this. reporter: the charges former president barack obama ordered the wiretapping of trump tower during the election. the former president has led the charge. so as the current fbi director reportedly asked the justice department to publicly reject the president's claims. congressman schiff plans to ask about it directly when he testifies before the full committee later this month. republicans have also been very critical of president trump on this issue. just today, john mccain said thursday road need for congress
to investigate these wiretapping allegations. here is why. >> i've no reason to believe the charge is true, but i also believe the president of the united states could clear this up in a minute. polyester do is pick up the photographs have been a minute. call the cia, director of intelligence because they certainly should know whether the former president of the united states was wiretapping towers. >> the president has asked the congress to look at that which is interesting because the president could himself asked that question. >> senator mccain for president tribe can either retract his claim or provide proof to both congress and the public to back up that claim. we'll see what president trapped inside especially with the very first deadline set for tomorrow. leland: kristen fisher along with john roberts watching.
>> just over halfway through his first hundred days the president trump faces opposition on a key legislative item from the repealing of replacing obamacare. administration defending the plan on political talk shows today of signaling president trump open to improvement. garrett county here with the latest. >> they are seen another side of the president as this plays out. the businessman fiona curd cheese. the two sides in this case or the republican leadership in congress and conservative members of the house for dukakis who criticize the gop plan for replacing obamacare is not going far enough. face the nation, kentucky senator man paul or his republican leadership doesn't listen to their concerts and won't enough votes to pass. >> if we can do with proper ride, he will not have the votes and we have to get to that point before true negotiations began.
right now everybody's been nice to everybody because they want us to vote for this. >> paul ryan tried to downplay those concerns are that ultimately he believed the bill will make it through. >> when you're a governing party get a consensus among your wide big tent party, everybody doesn't get what they want. but we are getting much better policy here. we made a promise to the people who elected us we would repeal and replace the flawed and said this we replace it with the now we keep our word. >> president chavez put his full sample of approval of the plan but also indicated he's open to any ideas or suggestions to improve it. they've indicated plenty of suggestions on how to improve the bill improve the ability ahead to the white house on tuesday for a night of pizza and bowling with the president. >> a long road ahead of us. more to come. thank you so much.
>> someone who might have a few suggestions of his own. the great state of california and also the state's former insurance commissioner. nice to see you, congressman. >> good to be with you. >> how do you feel getting the stronger for the white house and house leadership on this one? >> they are certainly played an insider game trying to round up votes for their own idea how to improve health care in the united states. the president said clearly he would repeal and replace them see that everybody would have coverage of the affordable. that's absolutely not the case with what is presently going on in washington d.c. >> fair to say that's too light for the price of blood in the sense that everyone will be covered in cheaper? >> absolutely true. you will pay more for less. there's a huge, very serious tax cut, perhaps $700 billion tax cut over the next 10 years goes
to the super wealthy and upper 20% of america's income. it's certainly not going to be better for the average american. they will pay more, get less. >> and try to square the circle. this into the administration is certainly tom price, one of your former colleagues in the house, arguably one of the big experts when it comes to health care said this. >> will be worse off financially. >> i firmly believe nobody will be worse off financially in the process they were going through understanding what choices they can collect the coverage they want. >> that's a pretty bold statement. no one will be worse off financially. he might hearken back to the promise we heard if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. >> this is a promise not going to be kept. it wasn't kept radiophonic
ministration because the nature of health care and insurance is such that the insurance companies change the.yours. in this case we are looking at something -- don't take my word for it. take the arp. it it very clear that those people 50 and older will get hammered by the proposal. first of all, the range of prices available for a 20-year-old 25-year-old is one to five. presently it's one to three. you can charge three times more under the current law and charge five times more for a 50 to 65-year-old. that is hampering somebody. those people of that area and simultaneously the credit for the tax credits available for people in that age group are significantly less than they are under the affordable care act to obamacare. trump care is a real downer, a real decline for people of
different age groups. if you take a look at the medicaid program, postcode of seniors in nursing homes, often in very significant health care issues. they will see a significant reduction. >> unappreciative if you've been so candid and really to hear dire warnings for people of their own party about something and leadership of their party is championing. certainly warnings like this about something the white house is championing in the same party. i'm interested. air force one would make a lot of noise if it comes to dq comes to did yuba city in your district. are you worried about president trump st. lauren, one of the guys who came out against this. i will back somebody primarily. >> let it happen. i represented the entire state of california for 12 years as the insurance commissioner lieutenant governor. the people in my district want
to know what is happening at the bottom line. the truth of the matter is trump care is worse than obamacare in many ways. i know people in my district don't want to see super wealthy getting a huge tax cut. 400 families in america receive a $700 billion reduction in their tax care. the top 1% with a 57%. >> of all the content or 15 seconds left. i talked to your colleague yesterday. chairwoman of the budget committee said we've got the votes. i'm willing to stick their neck out and say this is going to happen. we've heard similar guarantees for the vice president about others. is this thing really going to fail? >> well, it may or may not pass, but if it does and will be a failure for the american public. a very serious decline in
available services and the cost of health care to individuals will significantly increase. we will see mental health or drug abuse programs eliminated or significantly reduced in trump care. it is bad news. republicans are determined to pass it. i suspect we'll see in the next election a real kick back for the american public say you promise commuted the liver but to give us a sham. lauren: leland: blunt is always good wish you safe travels. second california for an extra couple days. >> that would be a terrible tragedy to stay here in good weather. good to see you. laura. lauren: what to expect this week is the health care continues. you want to bring in our guest on sat. political editor at national journal, welcome to you. harsh words there we just heard on this. you write your latest article at
essential to understand the divided the republican party to get a grip on what's happening in the battle. a lot of pressure on republicans who are against it. i want us all to take a look at the ads run in, now targeted congressman to their own districts. watch. be that the itself correct versus obamacare. about a careful job discerning mandates. do plan to liquidate them. obamacare puts bureaucrats in control. republican plan puts patients a doctor's insurance. obamacare puts families for storage of transferring premiums. >> repeal and replace obamacare. >> congressman rocard yesterday. this is running in his district. this is a good way to put pressure on. what do you make of it? >> these are the most conservative members of the
house. at over only overwhelming shares, but also ran ahead of most of these republican members. you would likely see trump put the full-court press on a lot of conservative members. the odds are the legislation will pass to the house. paul ray does he can lose the freedom caucus the only be the third to get the legislation through. he can lose some or most of the members of august i do agree. >> will try to file a blog. implications for 2018 at the gop votes for the bill. listen to what senator tom cotton later. >> i would say to my friend for the house of representatives but to my serve, to not walk the plank and vote for a bill that cannot pass the senate and have to face consequences of the vote. if they vote for this bill, they will put it at risk next year.
>> was your reaction to that? >> the house majority is at risk. the reality is it's a lot tougher to pass it to the senate because mitch mcconnell could only lose to republican votes. in the senate you have conservative members like grandpa, ted cruz, blakely say they don't know if they can support the legislation. rob portman, lisa murkowski who also want the bill to be more moderate than medicaid fits the bill would phase out could mitch mcconnell has a herculean task. you can lose the right or middle that will make it a lot more challenging. leland: how much effort at political capital latrobe put it? we're looking at what he treated so far this weekend. >> this is the $64,000 question. donald trump loves to use twitter. he hasn't done it a lot so far
as we try to push paul writes legislation. will he do campaigns and rallies next week? will he do more of that? will he uses twitter account to challenge members of congress who does support legislation. he's got political capital to spend. how aggressively will he push the legislation? >> is their hesitation? >> bipeds with another who push grandpa to support it. the fact that trump himself to the gulf, had vice president goes aside he's still trying to figure out how much political capital to spread. leland: we also take a look at paul ryan and how he's doing. people talking about the presentation he gave this week. his speakership has been challenged along the way. so what happened to this topic have the votes on it or what if it does and he gets the votes in an enclosed, then what? >> they have more to lose than president trump.
that's how he gets the legislation flu. to make up his majority, they cut the margin republicans currently have. paul rankin cap intraparty fight. he can't try to appease the right in a leading or moderate members his coat pockets. the people attacked her sticks are largely supportive, but if it gets messy they could find some political vulnerabilities as well. >> you could attend her party's rudyard d.c. when people say around the water cooler? >> the odds are the legislation goes through the house. the senate is just very difficult. the odds are tougher. lauren: thank you for being here today. appreciate your move. back to you. leland: media meltdown. my dismissal of the federal prosecutor and dozens of others appointed by president obama is
blowing up in the news despite the fact that the law precedent here in washington. plus they are stranded in 42 students stuck behind an avalanche. we will tell you how they work it out. millions of americans, several inches of snow. perhaps several feet of snow. bono greeted all former fox news extreme weather center at just how bad it could be. >> i think you're right when he said several feet of snow appeared of snow. here's what we're looking at. arch area winter storm watch. agreed along the coast as a blizzard watch. all the details coming up. ♪ announcer: get on your feet for the nastiest bull in the state of texas. ♪
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>> daylight savings time. work temperatures usually coherent. pity across the northeast pulitzer snow gear. up to a foot of snow in new york and possibly four to eight inches here in d.c. over the next couple days. adam flock live at the latest on the storm track. that has been corrected since that were under a bed tray underestimate march and april. >> we're talking about a big sister read it here at the days. is there much from new york, boston, that is a winter storm watch. still a little bit further into it. obviously very winter like weather. temperatures of the 30s with large stretches of the country. other locations of the 20 gig review the colder. we've got two systems out there. removing across the east coast evidence of snow a little bit further to the north.
these will combine forces becoming a nor'easter moving their way up the east coast in seeing a lot of snow dropping. currently so that the portions of minnesota and iowa and that is all tracking this direction. watch it come together and work its way up the coast. pay attention to your stance there. this is going to be something of late a date into early tuesday morning when the snow really starts to fall. anywhere from a foot to two feet, very weak the condition of close to 50 miles an hour. a quick look at snowfall totals. you start to see purples as much as two feet of snow, if it is so for a really big system elected monday night into tuesday morning. we will be watching this one very closely. lauren: you are safe at the back inside. it was so nice recently.
the 60s felt like we were getting there. >> i know. i wanted it to happen. >> thank you for the update. leland: 46 federal prosecutors looking for jobs after the administration cleaned out obama appointees. if they beat average bear or evidence of real bias. president trump wanted to abide in the wiretapping claim. our political panel with what adobe flex. >> the president has said he is called upon the house and senate intelligence committees to add this piece of investigation about russia. they've agreed to do that. mmm. these are good. nice work, phillips'! try phillips' fiber good gummies!
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prosecutor. someone just this past november says he was asked his day at the job by a president elect trump. rob schmidt joins us live from new york with the latest on this would. >> yeah, as someone saw that continues today. this is being blown way out of proportion. some one with another attorney foster john. berber triggerman standard operating procedures. preet bharara had to be fired to matter more complex was to be viewed at trump tower in late november after the election when mr. trump asked them to stay out under his administration. preet bharara has been successful in other parts of the southern district of new york. taken on corruption cases against politicians who said they were attachable. democrats alleging mortgages removal of their just entered politics. three watchdog groups asked
subtwo to investigate possible conflicts of interest in this new role as president. this word a comic and leisure companies, ranking member of the house oversight committee tried to insinuate a connection between that and the trump team later that week asking for resignation. >> i'm curious as to why that is and certainly a lot of questions coming up as to whether mr. trump is concert about the jurisdiction of the u.s. attorney and whether that might affect his future. >> the jurisdiction also a trump tower is located. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren treated out bill donald trump talk about a corruption of of government that wants a bunch of prosecutors who want to investigate him. this morning on cnn, senator
john mccain defended the president. >> elections have consequences. so people to complain about it. worried two presidencies and i think the president has every right to ask for resignations. >> the obama administration did this. no real update, just retaining the update politics as usual. >> i heard newt gingrich collate all the way back to abraham lincoln. the u.s. attorney received the go under his watch. thank you so much for that remark. >> a little more on this in the media outrage. let's bring in our political panel, head of research and actually republican strategist at goldman state consultant. good sunday to you.
as the media outrage over this a little rich to dissent that there wasn't a lot of outraged bitter cold or asked for the resignation of bush appointees back in 2009? >> it's a no-brainer. political appointees, no different than a ceo commented that one of different answer to you. i think it's getting blown out of proportion. >> i would assume you agree president trump believes has the right to ask for the resignation of these folks. >> absolutely. the way he went about it is a bit odd. i don't think for presidents that were the u.s. attorney to stay on and then sat actually you should be out in five minutes with basically no warning. took a pretty fired tweedy he refused to resign and had to be fired. it is standard practice in this way. preet bharara had a strong
reputation with republicans and democrats as an independent prosecutor. the reporter had read before this. this is where it made sense he would get to stay on this was that the president's right to do it. the timing is a little strange and trump tower within his district as the antitank site russian money-laundering and is obviously gone after wall street types. >> does this open up the administration and democrats are making somehow this was a political move to specifically take out this prosecutor who are uncomfortable for the administration. >> it gives the democrats more of that conspiracy theory are outlandish. he's an executive pair one of the things he would have a problem with this political appointees started to feel a title. it used to be honorable. but there is the due administration cap he stepped
down and asked to resign. the entitlement has gone way too far and is by all means within his rights education and to the the right thing and step down. obviously no one is refuting on either side of the aisle. why do you think of november he said he wanted subtwo to say? >> though it has the right to change their mind. [inaudible] >> i think that's absolutely within the jurisdiction. the entitlement that these employees have has gone too far. >> there's probably a lot we don't know we don't know it turns that interaction with the justice department and the new attorney general. we did find this is perhaps a rich bit of history for this which was a letter for janet
reno then attorney general under president clinton in 1993 today and u.s. attorney jeff sessions. now the attorney general asking him to resign once president clinton took office. mr. sessions was president h.w. bush appointees. moving on to the other big story, coming into my day is what kristin fisher talked about at the beginning of the show. the house intelligence committee sending a letter to the white house for the chairman of the making of her say put up or shut up when it comes to the wiretapping accusations by the president. what is the next move for the white house? did they say we don't have anything or make the committee cited on a road? >> i think this is a brilliant move by president trump and the administration. for so long we've heard about russia as i have pointed out we will start talking about wiretapping. number two, probably happy.
the obama administration at "the associated press" and fox news reporter so we know that wiretapping is already at issue and basic definition happens all the time. if this intelligence community on notice. they'll have to start investigating the intelligence community and they really gave them a lot of power in this position. >> lacerated i don't know how u.k. power by potentially line about something that's serious. >> i don't see why fly when obama has proven to do it time and again. >> you are saying right now president obama wiretapped the president without any evidence you've seen. he had an executive order that basically gave the intelligence community american citizens without personal information paperback did and that in itself
is a wiretapping. leland: will leave it there and see what comes from the executive branch and in answer to the letter tomorrow. jesse, ashley, have a great rest of the day. quick programming note. a lot more politics to come after the show, more politics with this man, jim jordan, republican of ohio. cohasset things to say about his own party's health care bill. 2:00 p.m. eastern right here on fox. >> several government agencies could be on president trump's chopping block as he prepares his budget. they could face the deepest cuts. it is a time of year. going green beach showing off some irish pride. how one city is prepared for a major st. patrick's day celebration. unlike ordinary diapers, pampers stay up to three times drier,
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just as the treasury department began to exert extraordinary measures to regulate government that. donald trump putting finishing touches on proposed budget which includes a lot of cuts and a lot of spending increases. therefore little in dirt, columnist at the hill. good to see you. how much of this budget that we will see late this week, early next is the art of the deal. as president trump putting out what it ought to have been not necessarily what he'll settle for. >> i think that's quite characteristic of what presidents do here. this is really the opening bid to use your analogy. i don't think the president expects everything seems asking for here partly because some of
the things are quite unpalatable. >> .only two democrats in terms of major cuts to social programs but a lot of the programs they talk about cutting our think that trump voters in appalachia take advantage of, be it food stamps, free and reduced lunches for kids. how is that going to play baby that appear to come about paducah. >> that's a great question that goes to the fact that this is strictly different from the republican base as is often perceived. a lot of lower-income americans have people who are dependent on some form of the government systems. >> 40% of americans have some form of government. you have to imagine a percentage of those. >> the key point to reduce the size of government in the abstracted telecoms to take this away from you.
>> except tablet helps me. it's interesting how the president is getting a face. republicans want to go after a title that programs. medicaid, medicare, go after other sort of major big ticket items. you have a president essentially saying i'm going to make all these cuts would save money only looking at about 30% of the budget. only so many $500 toilet seats you can order. >> medicare and social security make up an enormous part of the budget. you put all those three together here at about 60%, 70% of the budget. take out a military spending to increase. >> you are talking about cuts made to a quarter of the overall pie. if you're trying to get all the cuts for the quarter, obviously you have to cut more deeply that the discretionary that you might
otherwise. leland: how does this play into the debate on health care? this is going to pass. this is our number one priority. we are going to keep our promise. at the same time, they will have this budget they hated out, but they are already putting up for democrats and some republicans to take shots of that. >> they expect to use use the health care proposal and that could be very dangerous for republicans. both of these issues play into the fact there are fiscal in the republican party had quite uncomfortable. >> we heard that on fox news. more of the interview later. do you get the sense from the white house versus the day of average oz. >> one of the interesting
things. they would negotiate out things, that will be phased out. somewhat a contrast to speak or write his telegraph eat flexibility. >> we heard back from the head of the club for growth yesterday stated that what the president were pleasantly surprised by the idea of let's make a deal. i'm willing to compromise. we will see what happens on the budget. good talking to us always. thanks, niall. lauren: general jack keane is here to talk about president trump promised to back that i says in his decision to send more troops into syria. >> urc in a comprehensive approach to engaging syria, but the total defeat and elevation of isis. it's good to be in, good hands.
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>> actually considerably more than that. what actually has taken place here, we've been involved for two and a half years. in those two and a half years, we have made 12 incremental troop increases to her participation in iraq and syria. this is all going back to the fact that we never had a campaign plan to defeat isis. the joint chiefs, he spoke to of them two days ago. they've been working for two months of the campaign plan for the first time that deals comprehensively with defeat isis that iraq is area, but also undermining finances and their committees and 30 plus countries. this is the first time they've done it. who we are just seeing the initial installments. >> what about the proposal of 1000 american soldiers to kuwait to serve in a reserve force.
>> the enablers as they were good fighting forces in iraq helping the iraqis fight with fighting forces in syria. the special operations forces and apache helicopters. we also know artillery at the ground how much troops could be on the ground hasn't been revealed yet. we will see what that baby or may not be. the president is right it doesn't have to tell us what's going on right now. if he's going to put a significant amount of increase american soldiers at risk to have to come forward and talk to the american people. >> many compare the military strategy to what we thought it does so. how similar is the situation? is there a similar situation going on? >> there are similarities. classic urban fighting. the ground troops go through in those old we talk about blog a
blog, building by building that is layered with ieds, by its coveted traps. very tough, very good indeed. du shields to protect them from their prior -- air power. iraq is syria much to say. >> i want to ask you about this i did a trump's proposed budget and will make a difference with the right amount. would you think about funding for this? >> his initial proposal is inadequate. we need round numbers with $100 billion a year for four years to get us out of this incredible hole. the previous administration in terms of readiness of forces coming capabilities we truly be. they say that the united states army is at high risk to win a conventional war. no one has ever said that in 40 years. >> i wonder what you get total
calls, would calls, when we hear calls, when we hear the news that people call you, we call you if they help us understand, how do you tell the american people. how do you explain serious this is beyond what you can comprehend what you see the videos and pics that most of us don't even see outside. >> it comes to prepurchase. trading of preparedness to fight. 50% to 75% of the aircraft we fly are not ready to fly. that depends which service to talk about. but the combat brigades the united states army has come to 15 combat brigades to the lie chair beside it. only three could go to work today. those are credible numbers. they should be headlines. if such a serious problem. the other thing is we have fallen behind technology wise. the gap has closed on us. lauren: very interesting. thank you for your new piercing a good talking to you.
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in honor of the holiday and hopefully catch some luck of the irish. the local union on the back of the boat. i whether ask you a trivia question, if they die it green for st. patricks day, why don't they die it blue. i think it's a reasonable question. >> that is a good question. >> dates all the way back to 1961. >> okay. >> there you go. >> st. patrick's day is also the shamrock shake. a lot of people looking forward to that. >> next weekend. [laughter] >> a reason for us to have celebration after the show.
committed to replacing obamacare the same day it is repealed? >> cnn newsroom starts now. hello again. thank you for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. we have distressing new video from inside that ft. lauderdale airport. showing when the gunman opens fire in the baggage area. this video is difficult to watch. it is crucial in understanding the context of this shooting. this is a freeze frame, now, of what appears to be security camera footage, obtained by tmz. the man in the blue shirt is believed to be accused gunman, esteban santiago. we will play the video one time throughout this hour. it is silent. and it is security footage. and it is disturbing. pay attention to the left side of your screen, where the man in the blue shirt enters the frame.
he is due in court. he is facing serious charges. all of them eligible for the death penalty, fred. >> boris sanchez. at ft. lauderdale airport. i want to bring in matthew haras and paul shmek. good to see you. your reaction to the video? >> i think to understand it, we have to two back to november 1st, 2013, when a gunman walked into l.a.x. terminal three, opened fire, proceeded through the checkpoint and got into the sterile area of the airport, which is not a good situation, because there's so much access at that point. law enforcement took some time to get on the scene. what we can see from the video, is baggage claim area is typically a very safe area. people come and go. people in that area, are typically happy. they just got off a safe flight. family and friends are there to welcome them.
there are also shuttle buses and things of that nature in this area. it's difficult because of that 2013 incident, law enforcement, from the tsa, and public reports, was really putting pressure on law enforcement to put their resources at the checkpoint. and i think it's a perfect example where a vulnerability was identified that police can't be everywhere. >> matthew, how do you evaluate what we've seen. >> we deal with the reality of the condition. he shows a disregard. there's no regard for humanity. clearly, mental health. but nonetheless, cold and calculating. >> but it's confusing, too, because we don't see what precedes the imagery we saw. just the first couple of frames blending in. just seem leg to be like everybody else.
>> paul, what do you see in terms of the vulnerabilities, that may be magnified as a result of this? >> the tsa has 20 layers of aviation security. it's from canines to protection. there's two layers that come to mind when i review that cctv or surveillance footage. he was on a death march, really. and what we have to look at, there's two layers that come to mind when i think about this. there's the intelligence layer, what did we know before he came to the airport? and the no-fly list, much more in depth where you would prevent him from flying. intelligence has a ceiling on what they can do in terms of stopping individuals like that from flying. and i'm sure as the days roll out, we'll hear more about what was known before he embarked on an airport. >> earlier, i spoke with the broward county sheriff, this is how he sees precautions to be
tragedy often times to promulgate change. hopefully we see hard-core change here. something to change. >> thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. we're also learning more about esteban santiago's past. assault charges involving a girlfriend, hearing voices in his head. and asking for help. dan simon traveled to santiagoss town in anchorage to learn more about his past. >> reporter: his troubles began after serving time in iraq, relatives say. esteban santiago spent ten months in the war-torn country. his brother said the changes in him were apparent. >> translator: they had him hospitalized for four days. and then, they let him go. how are you going to let someone leave a psychological center after four days when he's saying he's hearing voices. that the cia is telling him to
to shoot someone. >> reporter: despite the interaction with santiago, he was not placed on a no-fly list. >> there had been concerns raised why he was not placed on a no-fly list. i want to be clear, during our initial investigation, we found no ties to terrorism. he broke no laws when he came into our office, making disjointed comments about mind control. >> reporter: why would someone who is disturbed get his gun back? the u.s. attorney in alaska says there's no legal basis to prevent him from having it. a judge would have needed to declare him mentally defective to deny him his second amendment rights. we're learning new details about the victims in the ft. lauderdale airport. most were on vacation. michael oehme of council bluffs, iowa, was about to go on a cruise with his wife. e was killed when the shots rang
out in the area. his wife was shot in the shoulder and is expected to recover. he leaves behind one adulter. olga woltering, was also about to go on the cruise with her husband, ralph. according to wxia. the couple is from marietta, georgia, and had planned the trip to celebrate her husband's 90th birthday. he was not injured in the shooting. the wolterings were married for 64 years. and terry andres was a shipyard employ, in ft. lauderdale on vacation with his wife. the couple was celebrating andres' upcoming 63rd birthday, a friend tells cnn. an trace and his wife had been married for 40 years. he leaves behind two daughters. three other people injured in the shooting are in critical condition. we'll be right back.
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credit karma. give yourself some credit. in jerusalem, a horrific scene when a truck rams through israeli soldiers standing together after getting off of a bus. three cadets s s a and one offi was killed. the attacker may have been an isis sympathizer. the attack was caught on video. and a word of caution. the video is disturbing. the driver, not only plowing into the group of soldiers, he turned his truck around and then appeared to drive over some of the victims. israeli officials say it was over when the driver was killed. orrin lieberman is in jerusalem. how can you tell us about how the authorities are assessing this? >> reporter: this goes on to who
knew this was taking place? in addition to -- i should say, police have made nine arrests, as part of the investigation. five are family members of the attacker, as you said, was shot and killed at the scene. i'll walk you back through what happened. about 1:30 p.m. local time. right along the walkway a particular walkway, not only for security forces and soldiers, but for pedestrians and tourists because it as a beautiful view of old city of jerusalem. a number of soldiers had gotten off of the bus as a tour, and that's when the attack happened. the truck driver drove straight for a group of soldiers getting off of the bus. and then, it seems he reverses his truck and drives back over some of the soldiers there. the horrible outcome is that four were killed. three women and one man. and a number of others were injured, all in their 20s. benjamin netanyahu who visited the scene and said, what they
know fromty a tacker, us was from a nearby neighborhood, that the attacker was a supporter of isis. we hear from the police spokes pen pern saying there was no isis cells in jerusalem. but it points to a lone wolf attack. and that is what security forces are trying to pinpoint and figure out how to prevent from now on. how do you stop this attack from happening again? it's a struggle for forces here and in yurm, in particular. that's the focus as they try to figure out, was there advance notice? could they have prevented this one to better prevent the next one? >> are authorities revealing anything more about why they believe he was a supporter of isis? what's the impetus for that statement? >> reporter: little information about that. it was a statement from
netanyahu when he said he was a supporter of isis. it surprised us because you don't hear about isis in israel, jerusalem or the west bank. as police pointed out, isis doesn't have a foothold here. it's not something you hear about. israel has quietly cracked down on isis supporters. people spreading propaganda or trying to fight for isis in syria. but it's not a major terrorist organization here. they don't have a foothold. and it's not something you hear about very often. and that's why we need to keep in mind the police spokesperson, when he said this is not new rye sis terrorist cell. there are none of those. and it's critical as they try to prevent the next from happening. turning a truck into a weapon is something we saw in berlin and niece, as well. devastating effect in all three incidents. coming up, the gop vows to repeal obamacare. president barack obama says if they have a better alternative, he would support it. can republicans come up with a
cheaper and more effective plan? cheaper and more effective plan? we'll discuss, next. i discovered a woman my family tree, named marianne gaspard. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. ancestry really helped me fill in a lot of details.
parenthood. president obama says if republicans have a better plan, he's for repealing and replacing it. >> it is true, theoretically, all of the progress can be undone and suddenly 20 million people are or more tonight have health insurance. but as i think republicans now are recognizing, that may not be what the american people, including everyone trump voters, are looking for. and my hope is that the president-elect, members of congress from both parties, look at where have we objectively made progress, where things are working better? don't undo things just because i did them. >> joining me now is tammy lubey. would it be able to take advantage of obamacare and take care of costs with a repeal?
>> it will be difficult. health care is expensive for everyone. obamacare has provisions that are intertwined, aimed at reducing the costs of health care in general. but republicans want to change the plans and give tax credits. but it remains to be seen how generous they make the new plan. >> the approach of repeal first, replace later, could bleed the health care system that all of us depend on. quoting him. what would happen to the economy if republicans do repeal obamacare without a plan to replace it? obamacare sends money to insurers and states. and this trickles down to hospitals and other providers. that trickles down to hospital workers and vendors and other people. there was a recent study that said, if key provisions of
obamacare were repealed, 3 million could lose jobs. state and local governments can lose billions in taxes. health care is an important engine in our country. >> what you're underscoring, it's not just the people on the plan. but a lot of people who would -- who are either directly or indirectly involved in the plan? >> yeah. a lot of people think that obama care is only for people on the exchanges or people who are getting coverage through medicate expansion. a lot of people don't realize it has many tentacles. it made some revisions to medicare. used to have the doughnut hole, where seniors had to pay for prescriptions. seniors will pay less for prescriptions. now, everyone can get prescription -- everyone can get contraceptives for free and mammograms on the employer plan.
people on the job have benefits, if they have cancer or hit by a car, insurance is not going to set a limit as much it will pay for the care. it's quite wide ranging. >> tami, thank you very much. next, a top aide for donald trump speaks out about russia's hacking of the u.s. election and its impact on the vote. plus, the red carpet is rolled out and ready for the golden globe awards. a live report from hollywood coming up. your insurance company
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election. she spoke to jake tapper this morning and would not criticize vladimir putin. even after president-elect trump received a briefing from top intelligence officials, outlining the case for russian hacking. >> as he been persuaded that they carried out cyber campaign against hillary clinton and what is he prepared to do about it? >> he makes clear that russia, china and others, have attempted to attack businesses and organizations and others over time. he mentions the democratic national committee. that's why we're having this conversation. i don't want any of your viewers to be misled thinking that the kremlin and the republican party -- that they had -- the kremlin was dealing with any of the hackers and bringing that information back to moscow and somehow that anybody who
allegedly attempted to influence our elections actually did. if you read the full report, they make very clear. mr. clapper in his testimony made clear on thursday, under oath, that any attempt, any aspiration to influence our elections failed. they were not successful in doing that. it is a very important point. we are talking about this because we had embarrassing leaks from the dnc e-mails. there were no fireworks because there was no firewall. rnc, there was an attempted hack on the rnc. but they had the sufficient firewalls in place. cnn's own reporting showed that the fbi asked the dnc to have access to its information, to its server and to the information. and the dnc refused to turn that over, according to cnn's report. >> this highlights the fractious relationship between russia and the u.s. president-elect trump vows to change that.
jill dougherty explains what that could mean. >> reporter: donald trump has been tweeting about improving the relationship between the united states and russia. and together, solving a lot of the big challenges, the big problems that the world encounters. that, of course, is music to vladimir putin's ears because he has been saying all along, he wants the u.s. and russia to work together on things like fighting terrorism. but when you get down to the specifics, that's where the rubber hits the road. and it becomes more difficult. after all, previous u.s. presidents had said much the same thing. here's one example. the iranian nuclear deal. the united states and russia helped to negotiate that agreement. and both countries support it. but donald trump does not. does that put him in opposition to vladimir putin? it would appear that it does. unless he changes his mind. these are some of the details that make that relationship much
more complicated. essentially, vladimir putin has defined what he believes are the interests of russia. and donald trump will have to do the same. what he believes are the priorities and the best interest for the united states. the question will be, will those interests align? jill dougherty, moscow. >> thanks so much, jill. confirmation hearings for president-elect trump's cabinet pick, that begins this week. and also this week, trump holds his long-awaited press conference. we'll discuss, next. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. my psoriatic arthritis caused joint pain. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra... can be a sign of existing joint damage...
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all right. a red flag being raised about the schedule of the confirmation hearings of president-elect donald trump's cabinet picks. those hearings are set to start this week. but the independent office of government ethics said several nominees have not been properly vetted. that's causing concerns among top democrats who say the rush to confirm is, quote, unprecedented. joining me to discuss this and other aspects of the trump transition, is cnn contributor, sale sale salena zito. also with me, errol lewis, ooh commentator for spectrum news. good to see you, as well. salena, you first.
chuck schumer has accused the transition team to colluding through these hearings. is there any evidence to back that up? >> not that i know of. in 2009, when president obama took office, i believe -- i think i'm correct on this, on the same day he was sworn in, the day of his inauguration, seven of his cabinet members were sworn in. mcconnell and everyone else didn't like that. there was some moving around. the process is swift and you know, went pretty well. president-elect trump has, i believe, eight that are up for confirmation process. part of the challenge with trump's picks are that they are outside of the washington, you know, sort of set. right? so, they're outsiders. they have more complicated finances. and you know, they have more complicated entanglements,
financial entanglements. but i suspect at the end of the day, this is all of these nominees are probably going to go through. mainly because they have the votes. >> potentially nominees have potential conflicts. that's why some on the hill have concerns. we understand that, you know, there are some nominees who are in question in terms of whether all of the paperwork has been filed. there's conflicting reports about this, by the way. john kelly, for dhs, betsy roth for the information of the ethics office to move forward on the confirmation hearings? >> it's a process. it's not just filling out a piece of paper and disclosing it to the senate.
the idea is to have a process where people learn things about their own finances, their own conflicts of interest that they might not have known before. famously, there are nominees that discovered they had a quote/unquote nanny problem. and it was only through the vetting process they realized that somebody they had been paying to work in their home had supplied them with a fake social security number. that's what happened to bernie carrick when he was nominated for homeland security. you have a process that's supposed to, according to mitch mcconnell himself, by the way, in the past. he said, you should not schedule the hearing until the information has been given to the office of government ethics, has been delivered to the senate and that the senators have had a chance to look through it. that's what the process is supposed to be about. not simply, you know, voting for them just because it's inauguration day. >> if that's true, according to the senate democratic source that some of the people have not filed the proper paperwork, then, salena, you know, how
unusual would it be if the democrats were to do this or there were some movement to say, let's delay some of the hearings or confirmation for some of the candidates until after inauguration? >> right. well, you know, the republicans hair would catch on fire if that would happen. and it was a democratic cabinet nominee. the ethics office is saying one thing. the transition team is saying another the we'll find out on inauguration day. i do know they are really preparing a lot of these cabinet nominees for some intense, you know, grueling questions, on the hill. these are people that have never, ever had their lives peeled back in the way that they do in these senate confirmation hearings. i know they are getting prepared. but you know, we are dealing
with a different kind of cabinet. and it's going to be, probably, a different kind of process. >> meantime, errol, there's been many delays. there was a mid-december late. and the latest date is wednesday. and it happens to be the second day of the confirmation hearings. will there be a conflict here? >> we'll see. you know, we're talking about five months now. this is almost clintonesque if you go back to the last real press conference. i hope it would be a true press conference or not a gaggle or swift questions followed by departure. we have to hope it is not intended as a distraction, a bait and switch, where something is thrown out to grab headlines, while the real action is on capitol hill, where the cabinet nominees are being questioned. the transition team, you know,
to their credit, they've acknowledged they're doing more work faster than they planned to because they didn't think they were going to win on november 8th. now that they are sort of the team that has to kind of put together a government, they have a backlog of questions. and every day they refuse to answer questions or to hold a press conference, i think the backlog got bigger and bigger. i hope that the reporters get a chance to throw out questions during this press conference. do a good and efficient job of getting to the heart of many, many of the conflict of interest questions and others that have been brewing for five months. >> and questions about conflicts within his own family. having family members working for him with the business dealings, et cetera. and then, the tax returns. donald trump promising that after elected he would reveal those. so, i'm sure he will be pepper ld with a lot of questions along those lines from reporters. salena, errol, thank you very
much. coming up, one of trump's national security picks facing questions over plagiarism. kay file broke this story. we have details, next. family road trip! fun! check engine. not fun! but, you've got hum. that's like driving with this guy. all you do is press this, and in plain english, "coolant", you'll know what's wrong. if you do need a mechanic, just press this. "thank you for calling hum." and if you really need help, help can find you, automatically, 24/7. because you put this, in here.
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president-elect's cab me picks, monica crowley has been picked for the detector of national communications. in her book what the bleep just happened found dozens of examples of plagiarism. that is almost identical -- senior editor of cnn's k-file andrew kaczynski. how many of incidents are we talking about of plagiarism? >> this is 60 incidents of plagiarism. it includes wikipedia, a lot of times we saw monica crowley taking, basically wholesale this work of other columnists,
changes words, changing the tenses from have to has. and even throwing on some of the same conclusions of these people in their columns just in slightly different words. >> how did you find this when her publishers did not? >> a lot of the cases that she said existed in the stimulus were very obviously copied. something interesting we found was this big listing of things that were very outrageous that existed in the stimulus package were not listed in the stimulus package at all. when we went look for where these came from, a podiatrist, of all people dating back to 2004. basically the first example about tattoo removal was an example of the stimulus and the
other 20 were from this podiatrist's website. so some. >> so some of the inaccuracies were red flags, have you heard from the trump team about this? >> the trump transition standing by crowley, they have basically said our article is a politically motivated attack. they actually cited this body of work as part of the reason for why she was hired saying, you know, this was her manifesto for taking back america. the publisher has oddly not issued any statement or responded to any of our e mail ors phone calls requesting comment and crowley herself has not responded either. >> and then we have several instances of plagiarism,
including melania trump's convention speech. >> basically we have melania, e were a lot of people that have written a lot of words, for all we know, there could be a lot of examples like reporters and people like us are going to be looking into. >> andrew kaczynski, thank you very much. for more on andrew's article about crowley's credibility you'll find on cnn.com. we're back in a moment. with lubriderm. absorbs in seconds. moisturizes for hours. lubriderm. every body care.
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thank you, because it rained yesterday here in los angeles, and it's supposed to rain tomorrow, so it's actually quite warm. but right now they're getting, everyone is preparing, people are looking around us, people are taking their pictures, because we can still stand on the red carpet right now until celebrities get here. people are lining up, the fans are in the stands, a lot of people are hoping to see their biggest stars, and i don't know how many of these movies and shows you have seen, this is the biggest party of the awards show because folks get to eat and drink while they are there, watching the show, while the program is going on, and also the golden globes looks to offer the best of television and film, so it looks to see the hollywood foreign press, they are saying are the shows of 2016, that's what makes this one a little bit different than the other ones, a lot are talking about two movies in particular, la la land, and
the same story from the drama side is moonlight. it also has a lot of nominations so people waiting to see how they do and how maybe moonlight measures up to manchester by the sea, which a lot of people are talking about those performances as well. a lot of people are getting in place, looking around. hairstyles should be okay. >> it's all about the hair and yours looks fabulous, i love it. i have seen nothing, so all those movies you have mentioned, i know them by titles, but maybe afterwards. it's been a busy year. >> it's hard especially when you're working and have kids, it's hard to go. >> lots of fun, we'll be watching this evening. the next hour of the cnn newsroom, begins right now.
to give him a pep talk, to have conversations with him about how he might be more respectful to the president. and that's according to a white house official, and other sources have said the same. you know, he didn't deny calling the president a moron. he essentially gave a series of different policy issues in which he's saying the president has been successful on, he really backed the president, he supports the president. he also said he doesn't intend to go anywhere, that he's just getting started. it was very much, as our own chuck todd tweeted earlier, it very much seemed like a statement that was serving an audience of one, and that is the president. i think the question all of us has now is what happens to rex tillerson? is this enough for the president? >> and kristen, we know that president trump was paying attention to this because we can read his twitter and he's been talking about this.
very clear that the vice president wasn't among those who specifically talked him out of resigning, saying, the vice president values the service of the secretary of state rex tillerson and is grateful for his strong affirmation of president trump's america first agenda. as the secretary of state made clear, at no time did he and the secretary ever discuss the prospect of the secretary's resignation from the administration. any report to the contrary is categorically false. so bottom line here, hallie, we're getting a lot of pushback, but again stressing the story states the vice president's role in this was more to counsel secretary tillerson, try to smooth over tensions. but those tensions have been on display. we've reported on them widely, including over the weekend when the president tweeted, criticizing his own secretary of state for how he's handling the crisis in north korea. so the president can call this fake news, but he himself has made it very clear that he's broken with his own secretary of
state on a whole host of policy issues. >> and those policy issues, kristen and carol, is a critical backdrop to all of this. we're talking about the secretary of state, as you have, the crisis in north korea that's been intensifying in the last few months. you got what was happening with the u.s. relationship with iran and questions about what happens with the nuclear deal next, carol. >> right, and those are just two of the issues that secretary tillerson and the president have clashed on. we also know they clashed on how to handle the saudi arabia and the united arab emirates conflict with qatar. you saw the president -- the secretary say one thing and then the president come out and undercut him on that. you may know that secretariy tillerson, around the time he was considering resigning, really pushed the president on signing the nuclear deal.
the president was very hesitant to do that. there is a wide display of public irritants between these two. we spoke to a dozen people for this story, and they all said the same thing. this is a relationship that was tried to reset in july and yet seems to not be able to be reset, that it keeps having these setbacks instead. we just saw most recently over the weekend in north korea where the white house officials can say what they want in terms of pushing back on our reporting, but we all know that they were and really angry that secretary tillerson said what he said about talks with north korea. he didn't clear that with the white house. to go back earlier, this is the type of stuff that vice president pence has been talking to tillerson about not doing, and yet he continues to do it. >> carol, we know the president is landing in las vegas any minute to visit with folks
there. when we look at the backdrop of all of this, kristen, too, with what's happening with rex tillerson, what's happening with t the issue is senator corker. >> he ended up being not supportive in the way i hope a secretary of state would be supportive, and that's just from my vantage point. but i've never -- you know, i have no knowledge of the comments or anything else. i think he's in a very trying situation, trying to solve many of the world's problems a lot of times without the kind of support and help that i would like to see him have. >> senator corker, kristen, very frank there, saying that president trump is not giving his own secretary of state enough support. how does this play out now when it comes to the relationship between members of the
administration and including what comes next for the united states in terms of these policy challenges. >> it's a bit of a drip, drip, drip, hallie. what's significant about senator corker's comments is they outline the fact that, yes, there may be tension pz not the scenes and particularly with the administration and with congress dealing with so many pressing issue issues. this really bubbles up to the surface and isn't going away, hallie. >> kristen and carol, you've both had a very busy morning. thank you for being on with me. i want to turn to senator blumenthal who is with me now. senator, thank you for being with us. you had reporting this morning from nbc news, the secretary's response. can rex tillerson remain a
secretary of state right now? >> what concerns me now, hallie, is less the confidence and trust that the president and secretary of state have in each other than the confidence and trust we should have in the secretary of state's ability to conduct diplomacy. the beginning of talks with north korea were a hopeful sign that maybe diplomacy would replace some of the fury and fire talk and maybe we would avoid miscalculation or another mistake that would draw us into war. can secretary of state tillerson remain? not if the president continues to undercut his pursuing a rational and sensible policy, and these talks were at least the beginning of such a policy. and my hope is that they will not only reconcile with each other but pursue a policy that aims at stopping a nuclear farm
in north korea without the use of military force, which would be devastating. >> you talked about the importance of americans having confidence and trust in a secretary of state snmt. >> at this moment, i think many of us are wondering if he has the credibility of a serious person, which he is, if he's capable of peaceful negotiations with other nations, which he is. i hope to trust him like i do any other official, but it's a question mark. >> it sounds like you don't right now, senator? >> it's a question mark, because of the president undercutting him. that's what's so pernicious about the president's seemingly off-tweet remarks, without any apparent previous thought or analysis. if he lacks confidence in the secretary of state, then demand.
>> what more can the senator do? he's come out in this impromptu news conference. what else does secretary tillerson need to do? >> he needs to fill the ravngs of t -- ranks of the department of state. they're essential to the diplomatic effectiveness of the united states of america. there are no responsible officials for many of the key policymaking and also representative posts in the department of state. and he cannot be effective and he cannot have the trust and confidence of the american people if he is operating alone without that support. >> what about the trust and confidence of world leaders, senator? does the state department have that? >> right now i think that's another big question mark. i haven't traveled recently but i hear from colleagues of mine that have been in the capitals of our allies as well as
adversaries that there is a deficit of confidence in the ability of the department of state and the secretary of state and this whole government to conduct diplomacy. and that's a confidence that is ebbing and it has to be restored vigorously and promptly. >> the secretary in those remarks we heard this morning, senator, seemed very frustrated with leaks, essentially, the dissendi dissension in the ranks. is he right to be fed up with that? >> when the history of this era is written, the heroes will be our free press and our independent judiciary. i say the free press because it's taking advantage of information that ought to be made available to the american public. they ought to know what is happening because leaks have been around as long as there have been administration pz.
nobody likes adverse wars. but the public is entitled to know it sooner rather than have it escalate. i think with all due respect to the secretary, the underlying and i don't want to address them. i was on capitol hill yesterday talking to some of your colleagues on both sides of the aisle about what congress can do, what you need to do. the discussion has centered around something called bump stocks which allows a gun to fire faster, like an automatic. if the president took action, would you support that? >> i would not only support that, senator feinstein and i
announced legislation a moment ago that would ban bump stocks. the firing mechanicism that harness recoil energy and make it possible to convert semi-automatic to automatic. yes, we should ban them, and i think it's a point of common ground where we can come together, in addition to others. >> that was my question. have you spoken to republicans about this? john thune told me yesterday these discussions should take place. >>. the high capacity mag -- magazine on this, there is
receptiveness that i think is very, very significant on the point of bump stocks. >> before i let you go, in the next couple minutes, we expect to hear from a couple more of your colleagues that lead the senate intelligence committee talking about russia's interference in the 2016 elections. you can see a live shot expected to begin any moment. what do you expect to hear -- and i want to focus on these facebook ads. >> these facebook ards, thousans of them, reflect on our democracy. the intelligence committee will shortly have a press conference, but it's only another step. the investigations of the committee where i serve, the judiciary committee, as well as the intelligence committee, and most important, the special counsel have to under. >> it's full ex tenlt.
i've likened it to an attack of war, an act of war. we need to know all of what happened, and the special council slel howill discuss it more. >> i want to go near the room you just saw a live shot of. any minute, kacie, the members of the bipartisan committee coming and giving us a status update of how well things are going. >> hallie, you're right, a rare meeting of the chairman and vice chairman. they described it to us as a status report, but we also know they may take the trump administration to task for not
doing enough to protect the country from future election tampering. of course, the president himself, as recently as july, has been raising questions about whether it was the russians who tampered with the election or were trying to tamper with the election. the sense here from this committee likely to concur with what the intelligence community has for future elections. the results and events of 2016 alive, there is an election for governor coming up. all states are unprepared to deal with this in the future. so we're also going to talk hopefully a little bit about social media platforms efforts to tamper with the election. we're learning more about which
states were targeted bill th this -- by this ads that were targeted. but those states included some major swing states and some states that were critical to the president's victory. wisconsin, michigan, but also florida, ohio, georgia, as well as some states that were not swing states in the election. california, new york, texas, mississippi, alabama. this was spread across. and there is also some suggestion it may have been because of election day, that it was designed to inflame tensions across the board. there were some ads in states where there was incidence of police shooting african-americans, for example. we know that the black lives matter movement seemed to be a part of what seems to be the jat
ji here. google in the spotlight expected to testify in an open session. >> by my count we have roughly 60 second left if that two-minute warning was accurate before we see these leaders of the senate intelligence committee. what happens in 2018? the risk that moscow may medal again, and i imagine these senators may address that. >> i think that's right, hallie. this is a potentially different concern than what we may have experienced in 2016. obviously these investigations are still ongoing. we're waiting for conclusions about what was successful, what worked, what didn't? the more time that goes by, the
more they try of this, the more they potentially learn. and some of them are moving into different ways of counting votes or using different kinds of machines. are those machines vulnerable and what responsibility does the student's raves have so i think there is a lot of about -- how do we make sure is prepared and ready to handle a potential attack from a foreign entity across the country, so there's some states better prapd than other
others. that's what security is doing in preparation for it. >> kacie, i see you checking out with your eyes for a moment we don't often see this. we don't oochb see in it to answer questions about their. >> this is a very rare situation, but i do think it's important in that they're going to carry a board in here that i think you may see, and forgive me if our shot goes a little sideways. this is investigation update. so they say they've had 150-plus people interviewed already, 250 hours of interviews, 4,000 pages of transcripts. now, they also say there are 11, so that may suggest what we're
going to do. there's 80-plus copies of "war and peace." i don't think i've made it through warm and peace west. >> they did say this was going to be a progress report. i think that gives, ah little bit of sense of what the scope is community iing. >> let's listen to this progress report. >> thank you for being here. it's a busy day around the country. mark and i recognize the tragedy of nevada this week, and at this point i'm glad to say that it doesn't seem to have a terrorism nexxus. that's not always the out come, but our hearts and our prayers
go out to all the individuals who were affected, both directly and indirectly. and i can sure you that frl tumd. they're providing as many assets to local law enforcement and to shows people that are tasked with we're here to update you and the american people about the investigation into russiwhe started this investigation on 23 january of this year, we had a very clear foes urs. additionally the investigation was too look into any collusion by either campaign during the 2016 elections. the third piece was an assessment of the ongoing
russian active measures including information and influence campaigns that may still exist and may be ongoing. the investigation started with those three buckets of interest. now we're over 100 interviews later, which translates to 250-plus hours of interviews. almost 4,000 pages of transcripts. almost 100,000 pages of documents reviewed by our staff and some by members. it includes highly classified intelligence reporting. it includes e-mails, campaign documents and technical cyber analysis products. the committee has held that touches election's interference.
i can say the staff have literally worked 16 hours a day since 23 january to get us to the point where we are today. >> six to seven days a week, excuse me. so far in the interview process, we have interviewed everybody who had a hand or a voice into the creation of the intelligence community assessment. we have spent nine times the amount of time the ica spent putting the document together by the ica. then again, what ended up on the cutting room floor they may not have found relevant to the ica itself but that we found relevant to our investigation. we have reviewed every interview of the obama administration to
see what interest they had in the russia involvement and what drove those actions. i remind you welcome out with a finding at some point and hopefully that will be to recommendations and changes we need to make. so we've tried to think about this as much as we can. >> we have interviewed you. there's some that snuck through because you don't know who they are. now, it's safe to say that the inquiry has expanded slightly. initial interviews and document review generated hundreds of additional requests on our part for information. it identified many leads that expanded our initial inquiry.
the work done by our staff spurred the committee to look at some areas of our investigation that we hope will very soon reach some definite conclusion, but we're not there yet. we're not ready to close them. one of those areas is the ica itself. given that we have interviewed everybody who had a hand in the ica, i think there is general consensus among members and staff that we trust the conclusions of the ica. but we don't close our consideration of it in the unlikely ho unlikelihood that we find additional information in the conclusion of our investigation. the obama administration's influence in the election. they have volunteered to share
anything they knew and in some cases were interviewed for over two hours. the meeting at the mayflower. these are not issues that are closed, we have not come to any final conclusions. we have interviewed seven individuals that attended the mayflower event. the testimony from all seven were consistent with each other, but we understand that with the current investigation open, there may be additional information we find that pulling that thread may give us some additional insight that we don't see today. changes to the platform committee. again, i'm addressing some things that have been written by you in this room, and they may not have been on our chart but we felt that we had to dig deeply into them. we have -- the committee staff has interviewed every person involved in the drafting of the campaign platform. the campaign staff was attempting to implement what they believed to be guidance to be a strong ally on ukraine but also leave the door open for
better relations with russia. i'm giving you the feedback we got from the individuals who were in the room making the decisions. again, not closed. open for the continuation. the last one i want to cover is the comey memos. this topic has been hotly debated and the committee is satisfied that our looking into this issue has reached a tragic end of the russia investigation. again, this is not something that we've closed, but we have exhausted every person that we can talk to to get information that's pertinent to us relative to the russia investigation. questions that you might have surrounding comey's firing are better answered by the general counsel or by the justice department, not the select committee of intelligence in the
united states senate. there are concerns that we continue to pursue. collusion. the committee continues to look into all evidence to see if there was any hint of collusion. now, i'm not going to even discuss initial findings because we haven't any. we've got a tremendous amount of documents still to go through, and just to put in perspective, i said we've done over a hundred interviews over 250 hours. we currently have booked for the balance of this month 25 additional interviews. that may not end up being the total, but as of today, there are 25 individuals booked to meet with our staff before the end of this month alone pertaining to the russian investigation. we have more work to do as it relates to collusion, but we're developing a clear picture of what happened. what i will confirm is that the
russian intelligence service is determined, clever, and i recommend that every campaign and every election official take this very seriously as we move into this november's election and as we move into preparation for the 2018 election. i'm going to ask the vice chairman to cover the other areas we're in the process of pursuing. >> thank you, richard. i want to say at the outset again, i'm very proud of this committee, i'm proud of the way the committee has acted, i'm proud of our staff and the enormous amount of work they've done. i know the chairman and i see many of you daily in the hallways and know that this feels like it's taking a long time. it is taking a long time. but getting it right and getting all the facts is what we owe the american people. as we've seen, for example,
stories that emerged in the late summer around mr. trump jr.'s meeting or the possibilities of a trump tower moscow. the chairman and i would love to find ways to close things down but we also still see strains and threads that we need to continue to pursue. i want to touch on two subjects. the first is echoing what richard has already said. the russian active measures efforts did not end on election day 2016. they were not only geared at the united states of america. we have seen russian active measures take place in france, we've seen concerns raised in the netherlands, we've seen concerns raised in germany, and
we need to be on guard. one of the things that is particularly troubling to both of us is the fact that it's become evident that 21 states ostates' electoral systems were not all penetrated, but there was at least trying to open the door in these 21 states. it has been very disappointing to me, and i believe the chairman as well, that it took 11 months for the department of homeland security to reveal those 21 states and still don't know why exactly last friday was the date they chose to reveal that information, but still believe there needs to be a more aggressive whole of government approach in terms of protecting our electoral system. remember, to make a change even
in the next election, doesn't require penetration into 50 states, arguably. the states like the chairman's and mine could be key. you can pick states in two or three jurisdictions and alter an election. i believe in a state like mine where, in virginia, in new jersey, in 34 days we have elections. i'm glad to see the dhs have said they are going to up their game and particularly help the states in the elections that are happening this year. but we need to make sure that there is an agenda. i think the states decertified one set of machines that were tough screens that didn't have a paper ballot or a paper trail to this. one of the things we wanted to
emphasize with this briefing, that this is an ongoing concern, and that if states don't proactively move forward, very shortly we'll be getting into primary seasons early on in 2018. and this is an ongoing challenge. again, i would point out even after last week, wisconsin, texas and california still have some lack of clarity about whether the appropriate individuals were notified. i also want to raise an issue that the chairman and i have been working jointly on as well, and that is the russians' use of social media platforms. social media platforms that increasingly the vast majority of us turn to for information, for news in a way that is very different. if you look, for example, in the
realm of political advertising, we've seen over 700% increase in the use of digital political advertising between 2012 and 2016. the speculation is that will change because of the ability to target voters. i was concerned at first that some of these social media platform investigators did not take this threat seriously enough. i believe they are recognizing that threat now. they've provided us with information. we think it's important that the three companies that we've invited, google, twitter and facebook, will appear in a public hearing so that americans can again hear both about how we're going to protect, i would argue, three areas. one, making sure that if you see
an ad that appears on a social media site that americans can know whether the source of that ad was generated by foreign entities. two, to make sure that if you see a story that is trending and becoming more popular, whether that trending is because a series of americans are liking that story or liking that particular page, whether it's generated by real individuals or whether that's generated by bots or in some cases it may be falsely identified accounts, for example, facebook has indicated between 30 and 50,000 such accounts were taken down in france because -- due to russian interference. and third, just the notion that both of us have been in politics a long time. if you have somebody wanting an ad for you or against you, you've got to be able to go down
and take at least a look at that content the same way that if ads or run for or against you on tv, radio or newsprint, you can at least get a look at that content. this is an ongoing process, but we're seeing increasing levels of cooperation. and with that i'll turn it back over to the chairman and be happy to take questions. >> many of you have asked us are we going to release the facebook ads. we don't release documents provided to our committee, period. let me say it again. the senate intelligence committee does not release documents provided by witnesses, companies, whoever -- whatever the classification, it's not a practice that we're going to get into. clearly, if any of the social media platforms would like to do that, we're fine with them doing it because we've already got scheduled an open hearing because we believe the american people deserve to hear. just to remind people on october 25th, we will have another
hearing on november 12. we have invited the social media companies that mike mentioned to be our guest at an open hearing, and we feel confident they will take us up on it. as it relates to the steel dossier. unfortunately, the committee has hit a wall. we have, on several occasions made attempts to contact mr. steele, to meet with mr. steele, to include personally the vice chairman and myself as two individuals making that connection. those offers have gone unaccepted. the committee cannot really decide the credibility of the dossier without understanding
things like who paid for it? who were your sources and subsources? we're investigating a very expansive russian network of interference in u.s. elections. and though we have been incredibly enlightened at our ability to rebuild backwards the steele dossier up to a certain date, getting past that point has been somewhat impossible. and i say this because i don't think we're going to find any intelligence products that unlock that key to pre-june of '16. my hope is that mr. steele will make a decision to meet with either mark and i or the committee or both so that we can hear his side of it versus for us to depict his findings of what his intent or what his actions were. i say that to you but i also say it to chris steele.
potential witnesses that we might ask to come in in the future. i strongly suggest that you come in and speak with us. if we believe that you have something valuable to bring to the committee, if you don't voluntarily do it, i will assure you today, you will be compelled to do it. i can compel you to come, i can't compel you to talk. but that will be in a very -- done in a very public way if, in fact, you turn down the private offer. the committee has proven to be balanced, professional in that we're willing to listen to everybody. let me say in closing, for those following our investigation in the press, i want you to know that you only see glimpses of the amount of work the committee has done. we're doing much of our work behind closed doors to ensure the privacy and the protection of witnesses and sensitive sources and methods.
it's become increasingly clear that the committee has stayed focused on building the foundation to be able to finish our investigation thoroughly and in an accountable way. i'm confident today that when we started -- we chose wisely by choosing our professional staff to do this investigation, and not to the talking heads all around the country that suggested we couldn't do this unless we went out and hired a whole new group. i think the numbers here reflect that. ultimately we look forward to completing our work and presenting our findings to the public. i can't set a date as to when that can be. we will share about you after we've exhausted every thread of
intelligen intelligence. i don't by any stretch of the imagination that there's value to everyone we met with. but if we hadn't met with them, you would have asked why we didn't. the truth is, none of us in this room may know everybody we met with. we're not going to share who we interview. we're not going to share what we ask, and we're certainly not going to share what they tell us. we're not going to share with you the documents that we got, but when you, a large group coming from the. let mel assure you, we're going to get the best view of what happened that anybody could possibly get. at the end of this process, we
will be surely that we present to the american people our findings as best we have been able to accumulate. so with that, i would be happy to open it up to questions. chad? >> have you seen the evidence of a nexxus between these russian facebook ads with the trump campaign or with any political cam campaign? >> chad, we haven't even had our hearing with any of the social immediate kwa pl media platforms. i think if you look from 10,000 feet, the subject matter seems to be to create chaos with every group in america, aside from a involvement. let us take the opportunity to have these folks in. >> i would defer answering your
question. >> i believe, and i think you will see, that there will be more forensics done by these companies. again, when we just look at scale, france versus the united states, for example, on one of the platforms, facebook in terms of what happened, i think they've got some more work to do and i'm pleased to say i think they're out doing that work now. >> senator? the president has said he doesn't believe that any talk of collusion is a hoax. you have gone through all these documents, you've interviewed all of these people. at this point is the president right. >> i'm going to have you guys ask the president. i thought i was pretty clear that the issue of collusion is
still open, that we continue to investigate both intelligence and witnesses and that we're not in a position where welco will e to any type of temporary finding on that until we've completed the process. kacie? >> you said the issue of collusion is still open. are you pursuing the question of whether there is a link between the ads that appeared on social media sites and the trump campaign? >> well, let me just say that -- i'll let mark address it if he'd like to. if there was any connection that would be pertinent to our investigation of russia's influence in the elections. we have had incredible access and cooperation by those social media conditions that have been in. some of them have been interviewed twice. at the end of the day, we'll be
prepared to ask the right questions that may answer some of your questions at that open hearing. >> we also have to get the universe first. i was concerned on the front end that the first pass was not a thorough enough pass. for example, i cited the fact that one entity, the only ads that were produced were those paid for in rubles. obviously there are various storms. i think they're totally understanding that their actions need to match their public statements and they realize how important it is to maintain the integrity of our democratic process. >> i think at the end of the day, it's important that the public sees these ads. >> two questions. you talked about the level of cooperation that you've gotten from obama administration
officials. can you describe the level of candor and cooperation you've seen from trump campaign officials. >> i can't think of a trump campaign official that we've asked to come in that has not come in. is that pretty accurate? there are some individuals who may have been involved in the trump campaign that to this point we may have gotten their credentials, but in the sense of them coming back, we knew a little more when we pulled up a few intelligence threads. >> ufr been watchiyou have been leaders of the bipartisan senate committee answer questions from reporters as they give a progress report on the inquiry into russia's interference in the 2016 election. some takeaways here, russia may interfere again. you heard the discussion about the warning that their interference did not end on election day.
you heard these two senators say that the intelligence community's assessment. although they did not get into president trump's response assessment. you will remember that the president has repeatedly said that while he believes russia interfered, other countries may have as well. as president trump now gets off air force one. i'll turn it over to my colleague chris jansing in las vegas where the president has just landed to pick up the rest of our coverage on msnbc as we watch the first lady and the president come down the stairs of the plane. chris? >> thank you very much. president trump taking on the role of consoler in chief in a city so deeply shaken after what happened here on sunday night. 59 families now prepared to bury their loved ones. hundreds still remain hospitalized. some of them life-threatening injuries. the president being met by governor sandoval, by las vegas
mayor carolyn goodman, by sheriff lombardo, as he is a key figure in this investigation. before leaving the president called this a very, very sad day for me personally, but he arrives here, first of all, being able to see mandalay bay. as he came in and as he deplanes, able to see the hotel where the gunman so indiscriminately mowed down hundreds of people with his bullets. he does it against the backdrop of an extraordinary number of events. first of all, you were just watching these reports on the russia probe from the intel committee. you had just hours ago his secretary of state, rex tillerson, holding a news conference saying he disputes nbc news reporting he ever considered quitting, but not disputing that in a meeting with other administration officials he called president trump a moron and, in fact, on board air
force one on the way here today, sarah sanders said that rex tillerson continues to have the confidence of the president. if he didn't, tillerson would no longer be on the job. he also comes here amid criticism of his trip yesterday to puerto rico, about the things he said and the things he did, including tossing paper towels into a crowd. people questioning whether or not he has the tools, the empathetic tools to handle what is, by any measure, a horrific situation for this city and, obviously, for the people who have suffered here. the person who you are seeing, sheriff lamb bar douombardo sai marilou danley, the girlfriend of the shooter, is at the fbi field office about to be requested questions. i'm here with stephanie gosk and
pete williams. as we watch the president, who is meeting with local officials, pete, what are the key questions for her as the fbi has finally a chance to look at her face-to-face and ask her some questions? >> two main questions. did she know what he was up to? did she have any inkling he was planning something like this? did she have concerns that he was becoming more and more enraged about something? did she play any role in it? and secondly, if she didn't know about this, was she concerned about his mental stability? were there any signs that he was turning to this? now, we've been told that he was -- stephen paddock was taking prescription -- in essence, mood stabilizers, valium. but the experts we've talked to about that say that -- while it can reduce a person's impulse
control, perhaps make somebody more susceptible to road rage, it's not the kind of thing that would cause a sustained anger like what obviously was going on in stephen paddock because he thoroughly planned what he did. acquiring all these weapons, taking all these steps to monitor the hallway outside the hotel with the cameras, loading everything into suitcases, waiting for several days before it happened. perhaps, even doing dry runs by looking at other tall buildings that overlooked outdoor music festivals. so, those are the main questions for her. the questioning will start later this morning. she came in overnight on a flight from the philippines. her sisters have said they think the reason she was in the philippines is gave her an airplane ticket and wanted to get her out of the country so she'd be out of the way so that he could do what he did. but that's what they want to know. those are the main questions for her. we learned a little more about his acquisition of guns.
he had nearly 50 weapons. started buying them in the mid-'80s, but accelerated his gun purchases just within the past year. from last year at this time to this year, he bought something like 70% of his rifles, 33% of his firearms. so -- 33 firearms, 30% of them. he accelerated his gun purchases. why did she think he was acquiring all these guns? a lot of questions for her. we just don't know yet how many answers that she'll have, chris. >> and the president pulling away to head to an undisclosed hospital. he's going to be meeting with survivors. he's going to be meeting with first responders, with civilian heroes. he'll also be meeting with victims' families, something traditionally kept very private, those considerations between a president of the united states and those who have suffered the ultimate loss. but in the meantime, stephanie gosk, you've been looking into marilou danley.
what do we know about her? >> although there's a lot of mystery about what she knew about this shootsing and what she may have seen, as pete laid out, we're beginning to learn a bit about her life. we know she was born in the philippines. she's an australian citizen. a family member there said she left 20 years ago, came to the u.s. we know she got married in 1990. we know this from divorce records from that marriage. she filed those divorce records in reno, nevada. she listed as her residence at the time in 2015 a residence that we know was owned by stephen paddock. we've talked to a number of neighbors who lived near them in that neighborhood. one woman telling us she actually rarely saw them together. that there was some sympathy that she had for her because she knew and the neighbors knew that he was a gambler, he wasn't around much. she often tried to reach out to her and talk to her. another neighbor said that she liked to work out. she was -- went to a zumba class with a friend of hers and she was friendly and quiet.
we know that they met at a casino where she worked. and that paddock's brother said that he was quite a high roller there. she worked as a hostess. and that that is where they fell in love. even though neighbors said she described their relationship as something far more casual. but there's a little bit of a disagreement on that. so, we do know -- we know more about her. >> maybe the person who knows more than anyone else about what he was thinking, what he was doing over the course of not just the last couple of weeks but the last couple of years, potentially, doesn't seem to be close to a lot of other people. the other thing donald trump said before he left today was, we're learning a lot more, referring to the investigation, that will be announced at the appropriate time. what is going on right now that's key in this investigation that may lead them to more information? >> building the timeline of what
he was up to. looking for various steps along the way that indicate that he was planning this for a long time. that he had considered other options. and they've given hints they are looking into that. they're right now exploiting his electronic communications, trying figure out if he left behind any signs. but the deputy director of the fbi said this morning at a cnbc conference that so far they just don't know what the motive is. there haven't been any of the usual indicators that are left in the thumb or fingerprints, he called them, that are left behind in these shooting situations. we did learn a very interesting fact last night about how he was able to achieve such lethal force. and that is that the way he got these firearms that he purchased legally to act like automatic weapons was to put something on the back of them called a bump stock, which basically takes the recoil action of the rifle and
uses it to pull the trigger much faster. can you get a rate of fire that's 10 to 12 times faster than the normal process of simply pulling the trigger. these bump stocks have been on the market for years. just today senator dianne feinstein introduced a bill to ban the manufacture or possession of bump stocks. she said in a news conference a short time ago that her own daughter had planned to attend this concert in las vegas. at the last minute decided they couldn't go. that's how close it came to me, senator feinstein said. and we've noted that some of the online merchants, walmart, cabella's, some of the other places where you can buy firearm accessories, are either not selling these now or have taken them off the website, or say if you try to buy one on the website, that they're not available. that's an interesting response from some of the retailers. >> pete williams, thank you very
trust the president. new reporting on the president's humiliation of jeff sessions in the wake of the mueller appointment. and the treasury secretary's new excuse for asking the government to subsidize his honeymoon. >> they had to give up a lot to take these jobs. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the most prominent voices of the trump base discovered today what many of his business associates and customers learned long ago. if you're in business with donald trump, eventually you're going to end up on the wrong side of the deal. this afternoon in an off-camera session with reporters on board air force one, the president defended his decision to work with democrats on a deal to protect undocumented immigrants who came to the country as children. in exchange for increased border security. >> i'm a republican through and through, but i'm also finding that sometimes to get things through, it's not working that way.
and, you know, we got very poorly treated on the health care plan. we have to get things passed. and if we can't get things passed, then we have to go a different route. >> since last night when chuck schumer and nancy pelosi emerged from dinner with the president, announcing they'd struck an agreement to extend daca, the obama-era deferred action for childhood arrivals program which the president recently moved to end. there's been an extended back and forth given the white house and capitol hill over what exactly was agreed to, if anything. the president tweeting this morning, no deal was made last night on daca, massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent, would be subject to vote. minutes later he went on to advocate for the democrats' position tweeting, does anybody really want to throw out good, educated, accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in military, really? well, yes, actually, really. for instance, his own attorney general. who wants to do just that. argued without basis that daca
recipients disadvantaged native-born workers. candidate trump himself said daca recipients should stay with their families but they all have to go. today the president told reporters he would agree to protect daca recipients even if he doesn't get his border wall in exchange. >> the wall will come later. we're right now renovating large sections of wall. massive sections. making it brand-new. we're doing a lot of renovation. we met last night with, as you know, schumer, pelosi, and a whole group. and i think we're fairly close but we have to get past the border security. mitch is on board, paul ryan is on board. ryan and mcconnell agree with us on daca. we're very much on board. >> the reactions from ryan and mcconnell themselves were considerably more circumspect. mcconnell saying in a brief statement, we look forward to receiving the trump administration's lins lave proposal as we continue our work on these issues. ryan said the president and chief of staff told him there was no agreement. but among the anti-immigrant
john poe dead sta was the chairman of hillary clinton's presidential cam taken 2016, counselor to president, who issued daca in 2012. are you surprised by the developments in the last 24 hours? >> of course, think everyone's a little bit surprised. but i think we got to get out of the politics of this a little bit and remember what's at stake here. 800,000 young people, as president trump himself tweeted this morning. good kids, hard-working, in school, in jobs, in the military. and i think that last night he met with the two leaders, they struck a deal, and he should push forward with it. more border security in exchange for making daca permanent. that will be good for those young people. it will be good for the country. i think a majority of the public would support that. >> one point. border security funding, we should say. it's unclear whether that will actually produce more border security. but in terms of the underlying truth of this, i agree with you. i think 800,000 actual
individual human beings with lives and -- but that's been the case throughout. i mean, it's not like the politics are a sideshow. the reason barack obama had to issue daca as an executive order is because the votes weren't there with the republican congress to do it statutorily. >> i agree with that. i think that the republicans have been reluctant to do it. but now they have a republican president hopefully who will be pressing them to do it. he's gone a little bit back and forth on it through the course of the day. but he seems to settle in the evening again on the idea that these young people need relief. and he's promised to give to it them. and i think that if that means, you know, angering a couple of breitbart readers and some talk radio hosts, then he should go ahead and do it. because these people need that relief. i think, as i said, he made the deal. now we can see if he is a person who, you know -- it surprises me to say this, but we'll see
whether that when he sits across the table from the democratic leaders and makes a promise, whether he'll make good on it. >> well. yeah, i mean, i wouldn't -- i wouldn't bet too much on that, given his history. but here's a question. you were in that white house with president obama. you watched him work on a variety of issues and get stonewalled. you were campaign chair for hillary clinton. had she been elected president likely would have worked in the white house, chief of staff, something like that. you and i both know there's no way there would be a single republican vote for a dream act to be cemented into law if hillary clinton were president. ryan and mcconnell would never bring that to the floor. how do you understand that? how do you understand the fact that in that universe, the same bill would be a nonstarter, but if donald trump signs on, they can probably pass it? >> i was with -- in the white house with president obama in 2014 when he tried to get comprehensive immigration reform. and there was clearly a majority of votes in both houses. there were republicans who favored it, there was a solid --
the entire democratic caucus would have voted for it. but at that time, congressman boehner, speaker of the house, couldn't bring it forward because he was afraid of the right wing in his party. i think the same thing was probably true of senator mcconnell. now i think that president trump is pressing them and saying, look, i will take the flack from the right if you push this forward. and we'll see if he's got the gumption to go forward with it. certainly hope that he does. as i said, at the end of the day the politics are sort of -- sometimes the white house looks a little bit like a clown car, you're never sure who's getting out the door. but at the end of the day, he said he would provide relief to these people. they need it. and he should make good on that. >> i raise the hillary clinton question, hillary clinton of course will be a guest of rachel's just later on after this show. she has a new book out. how do you understand what would
be different in this country if she were president right now? >> well, i think everything would be different. i think we'd have a different foreign policy. a different domestic policy. she certainly put forward an economic program that was focused on providing -- trying to focus on raising wages for the -- for working people, for the middle class, to raise the minimum wage, et cetera. instead we have a white house that really has been dominated up to this point by special interests. people who are really more interested in getting favors for his friends in the business community. there's been essentially nothing passed through congress. and on the foreign policy side, i think we've had an erratic foreign policy. in which our allies are really confused about where the president wants to go. he thinks that's like keeping everybody guessing. i think mostly it keeps people off-balance in knowing how to
deal with the major threats from russia, from north korea, et cetera. so i think she would have been a steady hand in foreign affairs. i think most importantly she would have been fighting for the working people that he claimed to argue for in the campaign, but has been really i think abandoned since he's gotten to the oval office. >> thank you, john podesta. >> thank you. >> for more on the backlash to a potential daca deal, jennifer rubin, "washington post." lonny chen, senior adviser on marco rubio's 2016 presidential campaign. a few of my favorite reactions. hannity blaming congressional -- if the reports true 100%, i blame rs. they caused this, they wanted him to fail, and now pushed him into the arms of political suicide, if true. breitbart calling him amnesty don. what do you make of the reaction? >> i'm having a wonderful time, i must say, chris. listen, the republicans made a deal with the devil and now they're getting bit.
this man they knew was unreliable, they knew was a narcissist, who had no principles, and now he's pulled the rug out from under them. so listen, donald trump will say yes to whoever is in front of him and whoever he thinks is going to give him the most applause. so this is where he is. poor jeff sessions who was called an idiot but stayed on so he could deal with illegal immigration and legal immigration -- how's that going, jeff? trait, i think what's happening now is something very positive. that's kind of need the surface. as reported today you have both the house bill and now a senate will. championed not by two gang of eight republicans, not two rhinos, but people like jim langford of oklahoma. and tom tellis of north carolina. rock-solid republicans. they have a bill, a little tougher than the dream act, but it's within the parameters that chuck and nancy talked about. they're going to be dropping that next week. and this is going to go forward. the question is will paul ryan
balk and get paralyzed and frightened by his freedom caucus? or put something on the floor? so i think despite himself, we're probably going to get through with amnesty don and get something tort dream efor the d. >> sure, rush him bah and ann coulter and those folks will be upset. think the trump base, actual voters, will be fine with it. here's some evidence. a policy analyst at demos, a great analyst, he cited research from byu saying, telling republicans trump supports liberal immigration policy makes them support liberal immigration policy. like he could tran substantiate things into being a tough populist trumpian position by virtue of him advocating it. >> i think you're absolutely right. i'm not convinced this really hurts trump's standing with those who supported the president. look, here's the thing. you look back to 2013. donald trump met with a bunch of
dreamers in his office. i remember working during the 2016 campaign for marco rubio. this was an issue during that campaign. ted cruz and others brought it up in an effort to discredit donald trump. but i actually think at core this idea of helping dreamers, this is probably something that donald trump has always at core wanted to do. the challenge is now he's facing political headwinds because there are republicans that don't want to do it. the republicans at this point politically are in a very, very difficult position. and donald trump is the one who's put them there. because they're going to have to basically support this thing if donald trump supports it, certainly. and even if he flips at this point, the republicans have been put in a very tenuous position. it's the right policy by the way to help these dreamers which brings me back to chuck and nancy, which is that no one here should have any illusions about whether this deal happens, how long this rapprochement is going to last. i feel like i'm a little skeptical of the -- any new trump story seems to me suspect, jennifer. >> yeah, i don't think they
trust him one whit. i think they snookered him. i think they put him in a box on this and he tripped up himself and the republicans. i think -- chuck and nancy did not just fall off the turnip truck. they know exactly what they are dealing with. and they are trying to figure out ways to, first of all, increase the divisions within the republican party, and boy did they succeed in doing that today. and secondly, see if there are ways, big ways, little ways in which they can get something that they want. if they get dreamers, these people would be heroes. they control nothing and they would save the dreamers without a wall? that would be remarkable. >> lonny, where do you think this goes next? >> yeah, you know -- i'm not quite sure where it goes next. as with anything in the trump is thecy, who knows what's going to happen tomorrow. i think republicans at this point -- it's a very difficult situation. because there is this base pressure. and while chris to your point donald trump may not face that base pressure, guess what, congressional republican dozen. >> that's right.
which is why they're so squeezed. if he puts them in position to abandon their principles or go against him, there's like no daylight for those folks which is what makes it so fascinating. jennifer rubin and lonny chen, thank you both. i wrote some more thoughts on daca that couldn't fit in the show. find them on our facebook page at all in with chris. breaking news, north korea fired a ballistic missile east ward. japanese government said the missile flew over the island of hokkai hokkaido. this is the second missile fired by north korea over japan in the past three weeks. the launches came as north korea continues to threaten the u.s. pacific territory of guam. the white house says president trump has been briefed on this latest episode. michael moore is coming up. and the incredible story about the time president trump called jeff sessions an idiot to his face. that's next. i count on my dell small business advisor
the president angered by sessions' decision to recuse himself in the russia probe and by the appointment of a special counsel, "told mr. sessions that choosing him to be attorney general was one of the worst decisions he had made, calling him an idiot, and said he should resign." mr. sessions would later tell associates the demeaning way the president addressed him was the most humiliating experience in decades of public life. according to the "times," administration officials convinced the president not to accept the resignation and sessions decided to stay on for the chance to crack down on immigration. which he got earlier this month when he, to great fanfare, announced the end of daca. an achievement that might be short-lived, considering the president and democrats are now reportedly hammering out a deal to make daca permanent. glen thrush, "new york times," is working on a book about the president. ashley parker. glen, this is operate great reporter here. the humiliation seems a particular recurring theme in the lives of trump subordinates.
>> well, i think if you sign on with donald trump, you got to wear a flack jacket, to say the least, maybe even a cup and a helmet. look, i think the issue with sessions is once trump sours on somebody, and my colleague maggie haberman and i reported earlier in the spring that trump had been infuriated with sessions for recusing himself from the investigation, which by the way was a no-brainer. and virtually no one else, apart from donald trump, thought that sessions did anything wrong with that. once you have established yourself on the wrong side of donald trump, that's the first ingredient. the second ingredient is once you have not stood up for yourself in a sufficiently stout way, he will purchasish you aro. i think that story extends to the president. jeff sessions, every time he goes out on a limb, as he did with daca, when he stood there and made the announcement himself, he heard behind him the sound of donald trump sawing the tree limb out from under him. >> that's actually -- i got to
think that it's not coincidental. i remember thinking to myself, when sessions was made the point person for this, this is weird. people commented. it is very weird the president's making one of the most consequential decisions of his administration and he is not the public face for that. instead it was jeff sessions. now it doesn't seem so accidental. >> on this decision especially. it was a decision that the president told friends, aides and confidants that really he wants to get out of. he wanted to not make a decision at all. he really does see both sides of the dreamer issue. keep in mind this is a president especially who understands imagery, he understands that taking these young people, many of whom as you tweeted served in the military, are valedictorians, are upstanding members of society, does not play well in terms of a narrative, did nothing else. so i think part of the reason he sent sessions out there was, you know, as glen said, to sort of saw off the limb of the tree, also because it wasn't something he was capable with and he and
his aides understood him standing up there, he would not be able to make the forceful case. indeed, he undercut it this week. >> right. right, and i mean, it was notable that sessions didn't make just the legal case but the substantive case, basically that it's bad to have these people taking american jobs. there's a question, glen. one of the interesting things here is, there's sort of i think a unanimous view among folks that the comey firing was catastrophic. and someone convinced him when sessions tenders his resignation, and i think they gave him the correct advice, if you fire sessions, that is absolutely nuclear. and he listened this time, apparently. >> well, look, donald trump has a very acute sense of self-preservation. it's one of the reasons we see his new chief of staff, john kelly, gaining some traction. trump will push things up to the edge. and if he makes the determination very rationally that the action will boomerang on him in an unacceptable way, he won't do it. as you said, one of the really interesting things about the comey issue was that was a
catastrophic decision. steve bannon himself said it was one of the dumbest moves in modern political history, most damaging moves. and the reverberations of that are extreme. what's very interesting is, one of the few people who counseled him to do it, remember, was his son-in-law, jared kushner, who thought democrats of all people were going to come around and support trump because in defense of hillary clinton. so i think what you're seeing over time, at least, is a progression where his sense of self-preservation at least has become better. so the decisions that he tends to be making seem to be more rational. >> there's also -- my theory often is that it's like forcing air into the balloon. and eventually the pressure overwhelms it. we've seen times of, ashley, relative kind of -- i remember down the stretch in the campaign, it was prompter trump. it was about how kellyanne conway and steve bannon have one, one, one message. it did last three or four weeks. as someone who covers this interest meat, there's no -- is there a fundamental alteration
in how that white house is functioning? >> no, i don't think there's a fundamental alteration. and even general kelly went in saying, i'm trying to control the things i can control. the information flow to the president. the people he sees. how he interacts with them. but not the president himself. so there isn't that fundamental shift, although we are seeing stuff in the margins. but to your other question about sort of the way we can see trump scripted and then going off-script, i always think that's exactly right. i think of him as sort of needing a release valve. when you see him give a teleprompter speech, then he goes wildly off-script at a rally or sends out a tweet, it's as if he needs that release. >> to that point, the president basically went back to his very controversial charlottesville comments again today where he essentially took time to blame the other side, meaning the not-nazi side, a retrenchment yet again.
ashley parker and glen thrush, thank you for being here. coming up, michael moore is here. and i'm still not ready. the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them. ♪ ♪ but he hasoke up wwork to do.in. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. when food is good and clean and real, it's ok to crave. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be.
resistance as it's called has been more powerful and more successful than anyone could have imagined immediately after the election, when everything looked so bleak for so many. the documentary filmmaker and activist michael moore now has a broadway show "the terms of my surrender" about resisting president trump. and he joins me now. it's good to have you here in person. >> thank you very much. >> you're working just a few blocks away. >> yes. in a broadway theater. actually, i learned recently, tell me if this is true. you directed lin-manuel miranda's -- >> first musical. >> in high school. >> yes, as a senior in high school. >> you were his director. >> i was his director. i brought to life the vision. >> the man who gave us "hamm," you were his first director, that's impossible. >> i know, it was amazing. it's funny, i can still hum the tunes of that show, which was a 20-minute musical that featured a maniacal fetal pig in a nightmare that he had cut up in biology class. >> bob, let's go to a clip right now if we can. >> i want to start with this.
you and i talked that first -- it was a night or two after the election. >> yes. >> people in the streets. we've talked since then. there are two arguments to be made about what's happened. one is that the resistance really has achieved more than people thought it possibly could have when you go back ten months. >> right. >> the other is that people are still punching themselves out in the same way they were during the election. which of those do you think is more accurate? >> oh, the first is more accurate. you mean the punching out? you mean between the bernie people and hillary people? >> no, i mean there's people who still say, the base is still with them, you're making these arguments you tried to make in the election, they didn't work. they like the fact that he is who he is, blah, blah, blah. >> right, no, i think the base is probably still with him. i think that's true. and we have a lot of work ahead to remove him. because the republicans in congress have already polled their gerrymandered districts. they think they have a pretty good chance of coming back next year regardless of what trump
does. >> they really do. >> impeachment is not around the corner. people are hoping bob mueller can somehow indict him but there's a lot of constitutional questions about that. and he can indict him after he's a civilian, after trump's a civilian, then we can indict him. then i think our only question is going to be, do we try him as an adult? that will be the only thing yet to be determine the. >> in terms of when you look at these big fights, the fight over the muslim ban, held up in the courts, going to be appearing before the supreme court, the aca repeal fight, my read on the situation is, the activists and the organizers and the politicians and the legal -- aclu and folks like that have provided a friction against him that has been stronger than i thought it would have been. >> yes. and that is in part because our opponent is not well. so we've taken advantage of that. we feel bad as liberals because you want to be nice to people who are not well.
but you can't let someone behind the wheel of the car, you know, if they're intoxicated. and you have to pull them out. so what we've done is we've ob obstructed him and we continue to do that. all the legal groups are going to continue to take him and his people to court. the resistance will be in the streets. it will be at town halls. we are recruiting people in congressional districts and state assembly and state senate districts for next year. people are going to win. >> this year i should note, this year the state -- there's a challenger i think in every state delegate district in virginia, which has -- >> exactly. >> i think is -- >> exactly. and we're not -- we, the people, are not leaving it up to the democratic party, god bless them, to actually come up with a stellar list of candidates. because a lot of the poobahs of the democratic party believe that they should be running more moderate or more conservative candidates. and that is the wrong way to go. and that is exactly how we'll lose. >> i want to return to that.
but i want to ask you about chuck and nancy, as the president calls them. >> chuck and nancy. >> they have their dinners -- >> i had them over for dinner last week. did you? >> they never have paid for a meal. >> did you sign a deal with them too? >> they're going to go for me on my new tv series. >> did you actually have dinner? >> no, no, no. i have -- >> that would have been plausible. >> i have been in the room and i've watched them eat, does that count? >> yeah, sure. >> all right. >> we watch this -- the last week or two, there was the debt ceiling, now the talk of this possible daca deal, what's your reaction? >> first of all, i of course believe pelosi and schumer may trump told them that he would, you know, not hurt these daca kids and we're not going to build the wall. of course he said that. and i'm sure he said something different 20 minutes later. again, not well. all right? so -- >> is that your -- i want to be serious for a second, is that
your genuine read on him? because people talk about this and i -- there's no -- i really personally shy away from remote diagnosis. >> yeah, not me, though. >> i know that, i'm making sure to be clear about attribution here. >> you are not qualified to do that, i am. >> that's my question, that's your read on this? you mean that -- a jokey way? >> i don't mean a jokey way. that's part of the problem. the other part of the problem is that in my show every night, one of the first things i ask the audience to do is repeat after me. "donald trump outsmarted us all." and there's a little throw-up in everyone's mouth at that moment. >> that's a good bit that is a good bit. >> well, because, you know, he did figure out how to convince 8 million obama voters to vote for him. >> right. >> the majority of white women to vote for him. he figured out, get this, where the state of wisconsin is. >> right. >> and go there. all right? so he wasn't -- so i do think that there's this kind of, you know, kind of mad genius --
>> cunning. >> cunning, clever. >> hold that thought. because you just mentioned the show. i was walking in the neighborhood the other day. i saw that you had the show. but i saw the marquee and i was overwhelmed with envy. >> oh, oh, envy, oh. >> yes, that you have a show on broadway. stick around, can we talk about that after the break? >> you're on nbc, dude. >> we'll talk about that after the break. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home... ...with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection, which could lead to hospitalizations.
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surrender." what's the show? >> the show is two hours every night of me telling stories. we do some fun stuff on the stage. there's a game show every night. where people can win prizes. and -- but i talk about some of how -- some of the things i've been through in my life, stories that nobody knows about. and then i talk about people who make a difference. just how one person. nobody's from nowhere, as we're called, can come out of that, none of us are nobodies, we don't live in nowheres. the show, it's funny, it's very pointed politically. and by the end of the show, i'm handing out armbands and machetes and we head over to trump tower. no, not really. it's a joke. it's a joke. but what we -- i believe that i belong to the majority in this country. and i think that people are still in despair since the election. so they come to this show. by the end of it, hopefully less
despair and more ready to give them some of the things that we're all going to do. >> one of the things i've always found interesting about you, from the time i first saw "roger and me," i've read a bunch of books and seen your movies. you have this self-identification with where you're from. and i think that there's this certain critique of the kind of liberal elite from the right that can be very caricatured and wrong-headed and sort of unfair. but there's such a thing as this sort of bubble, right? i mean, broadway audiences kind of epitomize that. >> that's why i'm here. >> i'm curious. what are you trying to tell that audience that's paying to see you? >> i'm in the capital of liberal america here. >> right. >> and liberal america and the democratic party didn't get us in the white house. even though we're the majority, even though we have 3 million more votes, we hold no power tonight. so therefore i've come to the place where our liberal establishment exists, as a voice from the midwest, and also i come to the city that gave us
donald j. trump. and every night -- >> just a few blocks away, yes, i'm a few blocks from trump tower, where he grew up in queens, and i asked this new york audience, what the -- hm -- >> did you do. >> because if trump had come from flint, michigan, i don't think i could show my face on this show, i'd be so embarrassed that i didn't stop that years ago. why didn't new yorkers stop this? >> funny you say that. one of my theorys about donald trump is that you actually can't understand him unless you understand the racial politics of new york city right. >> crime in the '80s and '90s, the idea the city was being destroyed, wilding and the central park jogger. that is the crucible he was formed in. it's interesting you talk about that. people think, he's very much a new york figure and a new york politician. >> yes, and grew up in the same borough as archie bunker. >> that's right. >> that's where "all in the family" was set. >> exactly right. >> so you're right about the racial element of this.
where it took -- to trump it's "those people." those people, you know. and it's -- >> new yorkers like to tell themselves, we're in the most tolerant city in the world. that's not new york politics but very much there's a real tradition of that. >> no this is the city that gives us fox news. "the national review." rush limbaugh started here, wabc. i can go down the whole list of how much redneck, conservative, right-wing politics has come out of new york city. >> right. >> so -- but i mean, i -- >> you mean redneck ironically? >> yes, yes, of course. >> i want to be clear. >> no, i'm saying that -- yes, but they -- yes. >> right. >> that's what i'm saying. >> michael moore, "the terms of my surrender," here in new york. how long's it running? >> to october 22nd. and i made a deal with the schubert organization that the balcony is $29. because you know how broadway is. >> that's fantastic. >> i wanted people to come. come to the show.
i have a surprise guest that appears every night. if you would come on one night after the show -- >> it's no longer going to be a surprise, but yes. >> oh, that's right. >> i'll run over after the show. >> yes. if you'll do that, i would love you there. it will be your broadway debut. >> that's also true. >> you can show lin-manuel what a real actor does! >> thanks so much. take care. still to come, president trump's millionaire treasury secretary is explaining why he wanted the federal government to subsidize his honeymoon. you know who likes to be
in control? this guy. check it out! self-appendectomy! oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national. where i get the control to choose any car in the aisle i want, not some car they choose for me. which makes me one smooth operator. ah! still a little tender. (vo) go national. go like a pro.
carter pictures of his hands to prove they weren't small. and decades later when it came up during the campaign he spoke at length about his hands, even spending four minutes telling "the washington post" how he has zero issues with his hand size. >> i mean, people were writing, how are mr. trump's hands? my hands are fine. you know, my hands are normal. slightly large, actually. in fact, i buy a slightly smaller than large glove, okay? >> you chose to raise it during a debate, can you explain why you had no choice? >> yeah, because i don't want people to go around thinking that i have a problem. i'm telling you, ruth. i had so many people. i would say 25, 30 people would tell me, every time i'd shake people's hands, oh, you have nice hands. you have good hands. >> but that was then when he was merely a six-time bankrupted businessman running for office. now that he's president he can't
still be insecure about his hands, can he? that's "thing 2" in slightly less than 61 seconds.
look at those hands. are they small hands? and he referred to my hands, if they're small, something else must be small. i guarantee you there's no problem. i guarantee you. >> for a guy who has no qualms whatsoever about the size of his hands, donald trump sure talks about his hands a lot. today in florida the president struggled to slip on gloves while helping serve meals, eventually giving up on the glove. >> too small. >> we assume he was referring to the gloves being too small. because two weeks ago while slipping on the gloves in a houston shelter, he was loud and clear.
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president trump and vice president pence today traveled to south florida to meet with local officials and tour the damage wrought by hurricane irma. after speaking to first responders in ft. myers the president traveled to naples, florida, where he helped hand meals out to irma victims at a mobile home park. >> a couple of questions. go ahead. >> where was obama in the last hurricane? he was playing golf. >> this guy voted twice. don't report it, though, that's good news, don't report it. >> as hard hit as florida was the damage was worse in the caribbean islands in irma's direct path, including the british island of tortola where the devastation was staggering and survivors have no access to electricity or running water. >> it feels like we're in armageddon. >> just waiting for the zombies.
>> you know, we've kept our sense of humor through this. we have nowhere to go but building up. when you get to the bottom, you have nowhere to go but up. but it's one board, one stick, one log, one brick at a time.hu. we have nowhere to go but up. it's one board, one stick, one log, one brick at a time.
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officiated the ceremony. she came under fire after posting this instagram picture of a couple getting off a government plane in kentucky where they watched the solar eclipse for top billions of dollars in gold. in addition to tagging luxury clothes and accessories, et cetera, she condescendingly ripped into cop mentor, do you think the u.s. government paid for travel? apparently, it wasn't for lack of trying. we have learned that he asked for a government plane. he later with drew the request for the office of inspector general. an air force spokesman said the ask was unusual and could have cost taxpayers $25,000 per hour. asked about the requested to, mnuchin said he did nothing
wrong. >> my staff wanted to make sure that i was constantly had access information so they put in a request to request for flying and ultimately, we with drew it. >> secretary and assistant president barack obama. you interface with cabinet officials as your job. do you buy the idea that steve mnuchin's concern for national security was so great his staff was concerned he would be a threat to national security if the government didn't pay for his honeymoon plane? >> i absolutely don't buy steve mnuchin's explanation. there is plenty of time for cabinet members are allowed to fly on personal airplanes. there are other accommodations that can be made along the way. this is a continuation and the
da m ethics from day one of this administration. >> they did withdraw the request, one has to note but the thought i had was if it going to cost $25,000 an hour for you to work to fly around for your honeymoon, you can just not take the honeymoon. you were the general counsel for the department of defense. what advice would you have given in that situation? >> i certainly wouldn't have been flying on a government plane for my vacation. no question about it. i think we need to look at the laws that govern our people in top jobs and we need to have laws that contribute to the safety of america but that protect the american taxpayer and that should apply to president trump as much as to his cabinet. >> there is another story today about the swamp that really pulled me over. the acting director of the office of government ethics, the trump ethics watchdog moves to allow anonymous gifts to defense
funds. this is a move to allow anonymous unanimous contributions to funds, which are into the pocket, the bank account of individuals who are paying for legal expenses. what do you think of that? >> i'll say that, chris, this is a little foreign to me, no pun intended. i worked in the obama white house for four years. i never hired a lawyer. i never knew anyone that hired a lawyer. i ran the 2008 transition. i never met with russian officials. i don't know what it's like to have to hire a lawyer. i'm sympathetic to people in the white house. there are ways to do this. you need to have sunshine and disclosure and ensure the people making contributions don't have business before the government. or this becomes sanctioned bribery. >> yeah, jill, the idea that someone could give -- write a $10 million check to the defense fund seems to be problematic. >> it is. the question still remains if they have done nothing wrong, why do they need $1,000 an hour
lawyer? if all they are is a witness to an event, if all they are is testifying to a conversation they over heard, they should be able to go in and testify without any legal representation. >> i think i disagree with that. i disagree. if my friend said i'm working -- go back to the clinton administration and bill clinton and his folks would say there are a lot of people that didn't do anything wrong that need to lawyer up. if your friend said i've been called before muller or talk to investigatiors wouldn't you tel them to get a lawyer? >> i'm not sure i would. depends what they have done and if they just over heard something or actually participated in it. i might seek counsel to find out whether what i did was illegal but i don't need to have somebody with me when i'm testifying to protect me if i haven't done anything. i mean, i think it's great that donald trump has given so much work to defense lawyers and now it looks like to ethics lawyers
and possibly conflict of interest lawyers. so lawyers are definitely benefitting from this administration. >> chris, are you confident that we know the full details of the possible vectors of undue influence that are functioning in this white house right now? >> not at all. every day there is a new way this administration is trying to erode the ethics standards. not just the white house staff but the example this president or lack of example that he sets, and that's why all of these different issues and stories that you are flagging all come together. when you have a president that doesn't take ethics seriously, this is what happens. >> yeah, i think there is really a question, you talk about ethics and sounds like not strong enough, right? ethics sounds like a thing like oh, you should do that. you should be a boy scout. ultimately ethics will bleed into laws and the concern is what the legal exposure that folks may have as this all develops. jill and chris, thank you both
he was able to fire thousands of shots, dozens of volleys, that's what they are saying, he had high-powered weapons to do that. the s.w.a.t. team didn't actually enter the room for 72 minutes but they are saying after nine or 11 minutes, the gunfire stopped. it was deemed nothing more than a barricade, that's why the eight s.w.a.t. team waited so long. the understanding is after that nine to 11 minutes, the gunman turned the weapon on himself. he had three cameras in the room, we've been talking about this all day long. what we didn't know his two of the cameras were outside in the hall including one that that was actually hooked up to way service car from the hotel. the third camera was inside the hotel room but it was on the peephole looking down the hallway. there are a port saying this guy tried to film himself not true. all he was concerned about where the police officers and the teams coming down that hallway. he wanted to be notified of
that. we also learned that they haven't found it so far some 47 different weapons in the hotel, in his house in mesquite in the house in reno. the big news of the news conference is in the hotel, of the 23 weapons they found, there were 12 bump stops, those are the pieces that you attach onto these weapons that actually turn the trigger into an automatic firing -- it doesn't alter the gun itself but it means the trigger can fire automatically, guns can then shoot off between 40800 rounds per minute. imagine having a dozen of these in the room at the same time. they also showed us some body camera footage from police officers who were down on the ground in the concert area. i want you to look at this video because this is the officers telling people where to go, listen if you will for a few seconds on them being able to try to decipher where the gunshots are coming from.
something so meticulous, so many extra weapons over the course of so many days? >> let me add one more factor, in his car they found ammonium nitrate which is a key ingredient for a bomb. ammonium nitrate was the big weapon inside the u-haul. they found that in his car. the cache of weapons and the ammunition, they said he could have a fire hours. on top of these windows to actually get a better view down on the crowds, two separate windows broken out and two of them were as different angles so they could methodically get different angles on the crowd to kill as many people as possible. if the gun is jammed or if it got overheated he's able to grab another fully loaded weapon and then start shooting again. 12 of them, he could have fired and fired and fired for maybe an hour or longer with the ammunition he had to. he was set for a lot more destruction that it actually resulted in.
>> brian: one of the first people we heard from who knew him was his brother, 90 years old he had no idea about this. in his 43 guns he collected them over 20 years. this is his brother, doesn't he know guy has at least 43 guns over the course of 20 years? he said i saw one handgun i never even saw him interested in guns. >> if the brother didn't know or says he didn't know, maybe he didn't, he lived in florida and the gunman lived here, he knew he was a hunter he knew he had some guns come i didn't know he had that many guns print it brings you to the girlfriend, she lived with him in the home in mesquite. they shared a home up in reno, there was a home in mesquite, texas. she had to have known the guns existed, ammonium nitrate found in his car. there had to be some understanding that this was a heavily loaded man and what was his intention, it brings you full-circle to exactly who knew
what. it was this thing planned elaborately and it just didn't go as planned, or was this the initial plan and he just kind of got scared and pulled it off in a hurry. nobody quite knows what the initial plan was and if this was the ultimate plan that he had in mind. >> brian: i have two experts standing by, much of which is new, before you go -- what about these pictures that emerged in the philippines of 2012 and 2013, they looked very authentic i understand. tens of thousands of dollars is going to the philippines, evidently $100,000 went to the philippines, we cannot say too sure if it went to her, where's it going? >> that was the question, that was brought up for police. they know the transfers were made, they know the money was sent. the assumption was that was sent to the girlfriend but nobody really knows.
that's the whole thing, were trying to figure out the origin, try to figure out who is receiving the money. the assumption was that the girlfriend but they can't really nail that down. right now what they're doing is they're taking all of the electronics out of the house, all of the computer hard drives, they are scouring those right now hoping that will give them some idea of who he's been talking to and who he's been in communication with, not just in the past few weeks but the past few months or years, give them a better idea to build a profile or find out exactly what was happening, why was the money going over there and was there some kind of nexus to what happened here on sunday night. >> brian: almost 48 hours since the incident happened and we have so many fundamental questions, i sense that still breaking news all throughout the week, there's so much mystery involved in this, thanks so much, live from las vegas. now let's bring in to discuss this at a higher level, jim
hansen the president of the security studies group. he's excellent as is counterterrorism expert aaron cohen. first off, we heard about another report to "the daily beast" is running, the sky actually rented hotel rooms outside another concert, perhaps he was going to perpetrate this horrible incident on september 28th instead of having it on sunday night. what do you take from that? >> that hasn't been corroborated yet but it's interesting, could it have been a dry run, did he go to this potentially and lose his nerve? where in this doesn't play into, when the girlfriend leaves -- is he somewhat free from any earthly concerns? what pushed him over the edge? at this point we don't have any ideology, we don't have any massive life event or anything that would normally trigger it.
was it just some sort of psychotic break? all of those things play into it and what brought him into that hotel room overlooking a country music festival where "the daily beast" report had it overlooking a pop and rap festival. there is no way to tell was he targeting one kind of crud or anything else. it's painful to not have any real information as to what this guy was up to. >> brian: i want to do it with experts like yourself, isis doubled down and said he's our guy. they do have a huge presence in the philippines. if i'm putting you on the case, do you rule out them playing a role? >> i wouldn't rule them out, especially when you're dealing with a group like isis and what it comes to fundamentally dealing with potential terror, you have to keep everything on the table and then start pulling it out backwards. pulling them away and say no, no, no, i wouldn't rule out isis. but i also would continue to harness my focus on everything
we do know right now. the sense that i'm getting and if i was profiling this particular individual, to thwart potential terror attacks. what we do know is he was a loner. we do know he was with a girl, he was divorced. the place was a specific reason which was up in this hotel to open fire. cameras mounted outside. he turned the gun on himself and killed himself, he fits all of the how -- if you will -- regarding a mass killer in the sense that he was methodical and isolated. what we don't know as jim pointed out eloquently, we don't have the how. i think we're going to see in a very short period of time, once
we get that girlfriend down and start downloading the forensics on that computer and those phones and tracing the money, we're going to start to get a much clearer picture over the next we are of the why. >> brian: evidently he went to a local starbucks in mesquite and multiple workers said he treated his girlfriend horrendously, they used to wince when he had conversation and embarrass her publicly. something i know you put together if isis wasn't involved in terror groups that don't have a role, they are watching, watching the response, they're watching the reaction, does that were you? there's no substantiation for that other than them, they compared it to a time that they shut down the russian helicopter and all the media says this
wasn't them until they put out the proof later in their magazine. if they could be recruiting 64-year-old white guys, how much more horrifying that was then bearded guys named mohammed, we would never know who the bad guy is. if they're working at whether or not there's any reality. his father was a bank robber who escaped from prison and actually hit out for a number of years. the idea that this guy was a loner, off the grid, we don't know a lot about them because of that. >> brian: how much would you like to question his girlfriend, already spoken to the fbi? she is from australia, spent some time in hong kong, japan, and the philippines. you've got to recreate all of her locations, correct?
>> i wouldn't have even waited for her to come back, i would've been in the philippines with a task force sitting her down on foreign soil. directing a very targeted interrogation designed specifically around science which would be to read and calibrate based on her body language, i would be looking for every potential tell from the eyes dilating to whether the palms were facing towards me or away from me, to work her arms were placed, to the tone of her voice. dilating and bisecting that information and cross referencing that with every piece of data she's given in the interview to track down exactly whether or not she knew what her boyfriend was up to. ultimately she does or she doesn't, the whole thing is very fishy. i believe were going to see some very interesting things unfold regarding this case. >> brian: we can't analyze until we know what happened, 48 hours later we still don't know what happened. we've got to have your back, same team, keep in mind the
sheriff has been under pressure but he gives us great information during the press conferences i think that helps tremendously, thanks. meanwhile, we move ahead, hillary clinton playing the blame game again, new information on the podcast. pointing her fingers at republicans and the nra, will tell you why right after this quick break, jason chief jason. . stuff happens. shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. only have a sore throat? get long-lasting relief for up to 6 hours with new alka seltzer plus sore throat relief.
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>> brian: here's what we have right now, let's talk a little politics. hillary clinton is using the las vegas massacre to speak out about gun violence where she's casting blame on the g.o.p. and the nra. >> do you feel like they're complicit, the g.o.p. and the nra, and the gun epidemic were seeing in america? >> of course they are, this is nothing that you are on a unadulterated greed by people who want to sell as many guns as they can to engage in a fear and rhetoric about why everyone has to have guns. >> brian: states police who triumphantly returned to the capital last week, after being shot in june, struggling to save
his own life, had this to say about a gun issue with an exclusive interview with martha maccallum about two hours ago. >> inevitably questions about the second amendment are raised by what happened in las vegas. it happens almost immediately. have you, in your experience of your own, and what you saw in las vegas, as it changed how you feel about any of that? >> it's fortified that, you have to recognize that when there is a tragedy like this, the first thing we should be thinking about is praying for the people who were injured and doing whatever we can do to help them, to help law enforcement. we shouldn't first be thinking about promoting our political agenda. >> brian: he doubled down on how he feels about guns, joining us to react, jason chief it's is always on the move and a former chairman of the house oversight committee, fox news contributor. we also have with us richard goodstein a democratic strategist. do you think it's appropriate to
talk about gun violence now? many say if you want to change things now is the time to do it while the focus is on it. >> at this point in time when we talk about saying prayers, about pausing, in the house of representatives, you had two democrats from massachusetts that wouldn't even join the rest of the body and taking a moment of silence to recognize the victims, that's how disgusting this debate is already. hillary clinton is trying to be relevant, she's not afraid of she wants to take away your gun guns, divide this nation injecting herself into the story, it's just absolutely disgusting. when you have people in the hospital fighting to save their lives. >> brian: you don't have the leaders in congress doing that, chuck schumer is not taking that stance and neither is nancy pelosi. does it surprise you that hillary clinton wants to put her two cents in while people are still struggling to survive?
>> i don't remember jason or any of his colleagues criticizing donald trump for calling for a muslim man exactly after the san bernardino event. that was not very sympathetic to the victims, that was trying to push an agenda right on the heels of a tragedy. one other question, all of these people who are saying now is not the time, now is the time we should be feeling sympathy, the dunk gun debate should be later. tell me which one mr. chairman, which one of your colleagues announced a time after some gun incident like this, now is the time period of you cannot point to one because the fact is the nra is calling the shots. if it wasn't for the nra. >> don't look into the camera and tell us -- i've got five guns and nobody is taking my guns away, nobody. don't get out there and tell me, don't tell me that the nra pulls my strings or anybody else's. if you have a direct evidence,
but that's it. >> here's the evidence, 90% of the public supports universal background checks, let's do a thought experiment. would we have background checks? >> brian: you know what's fascinating about this conversation, a background check when i left stopped this guy, there's nothing in his background. he was able to get guns legally. if you want to make it semiautomatic to automatic, that means a ban of automatic weapons, people have already been four, it's already been through. if you want to to a debate on assault a lot of the things that people have been brought up already have not been part of the case as we know it. if you saw the first block we had of the show, there's still so much we don't know. >> that's one of the great mysteries here, to be this far away from it, 48 hours and still not know the motive -- i think that is different from san bernardino. we did have direct evidence pretty quickly.
we are very concerned that people are coming into this country and not knowing their background. i'm still concerned about that to this day. we don't fully understand this story and i do believe they have some very direct theories that they aren't sharing with the public yet, let them do their job. i will engage in the debate, i do think there are things to talk about as it relates to mental health and other types of things. don't prescribe a solution if you don't know what the problem is. >> there are mental health problems and every other country on this planet and none of them have the gun violence that we d do. we've had more gun deaths since 1970 then in every war the u.s. has been involved with since the revolutionary war. >> spend time in chicago because they have a huge problem too. look at what's going on there.
>> brian: nationwide gun violence is down it's almost cut in half. i do think we should approach something in a levelheaded way to see if we can stop the next thing. nobody is pro-mass shooting but i wasn't shocked not just that hillary clinton and others, late-night hosts were talking about in 10 minutes to very popular politicians immediately sang nra and republicans and indicating they are complicit. i was stunned by that as if democrats are responsible for that crazy guy that was shooting republicans at that softball field which we know is also not the case, thanks guys. the power of prayer at a time of tragedy. a prominent pastor who knows the right way through this horrible situation will be joining us next. i accept i take easier trails than i used to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused
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>> brian: reporting on the latest, the girlfriend of the killer is heading back to america, she is a person of interest and were supposed to get new information there. in this time of tragedy, many have turned to prayer as a way of coping with the crisis including the president of the united states. joining us to discuss this how religious leaders should respond to this is someone who wrote a book about it, he is pastor robert jeffers. his book is out, it's excellent, a place called heaven. can you possibly find a way to make sense of evil like this, evil that we can't even figure out a motive to yet? >> i think we have to avoid pat answers to question like this but what we can say with absolute certainty is what the bible says with certainty. first of all, evil is a reality, the president touched on that yesterday. jesus talked about at 2,000 years ago. he said satan is real, he's the
author of evil, he's a liar and a murderer. even though evil is real and the stranglehold on the world is real, it's also temporary. the great hope in the bible is the one day the lord is going to return, he's going to defeat evil and that hope of heaven is powerful enough to extinguish the horrors of las vegas. >> brian: 58 families wondering why their son, daughter, husband or wife is dead because they wanted to go see a country music concert and when they hear there's evil in the world, that's not good enough, what do you say to that? >> a few years ago my wife and i are driving out in the middle of west texas and our headlights went out and i thought how in the world are we going to make it home? we got behind an 18-wheeler and was focused in on the tail lights that 18-wheeler and doing so let us safely home.
i would say to anyone who is going through a storm in their life, their are some truths we can focus on. number one, god is love and he is good, we know that. he is all-powerful, all wise, he is having a plan, even though we don't understand that immediately. ultimately, god is going to defeat evil. the pain we feel is real but it's also temporary. if we focus on those things we know to be true, those truths will see us through the storm and delivers to the other side. >> brian: we wrote a book about that, it would help situations like this make more sense. it's called a place called heaven, a pathway to victory. thanks so much. coming up straight ahead, the late-night comics diving headfirst into the gun control debate. will their support cross a line with viewers
stay with us.
world where there are people who would put a gun before your lives. >> the sky had ten of them in his room apparently legally, at least some of them were there legally, i don't know why our so-called leaders continue to allow this to happen. >> i don't think it should be so easy for one demented person to kill so many people so quickly. >> obama's executive order, or a better answer. reinstate the assault weapons ban or come up with a better answer, anything but nothing. doing nothing is cowardice. >> just be honest and tell us, this is how it is, this is how it will continue to be, instead of saying this is of the time to talk about it, just say were never going to talk about it. >> gun violence should not be a staple of american life. some say it's too early to talk about gun control. for those victims last night it's far too late.
>> brian: james gordon should know there was a backpack bomb that blew up the up the ariannn date concert, they had to get special cops to suppress them, bounced throughout france, spain, canada, all due to different domestic terror opportunities and an angler that's going crazy with over five attacks. joining us right now to analyze should wait late-night comics be weighing in on offense, one of the hosts of the blaze lawrence jones and in washington, kerry sheffield. do you lawrence, are you okay with people on late-night television doing something that's not usual, it's telling us how to think and offer their opinions on comedy shows. >> i'm not too happy about it especially considering that i feel like there's this effort to disarm americans. i'm comfortable in the state of texas because i know when i go to my movie theater that i can carry my gun where there could
be potentially some type of terror attack. it seems like these late-night hosts have an agenda, they want to disarm us all. it's typically a time when we would have these -- we would come together as a country, they are more concerned with their political agenda. >> brian: younger audience, not nearly as big as it used to be it used to be nbc and everybody else until letterman split off. do you think they are doing the responsible thing sounding off and giving their opinion? >> our hearts are with the victims in las vegas but this is a responsible. if you have a public platform you do need to have both sides, that's what they like to say they believe in and nuance. this is not nuance, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. gun violence should not be a staple of american history, it is a recent thing. it's a recent thing because our society, our fabric, our culture, we used a value virtue, we used a value life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness and the constitution. the constitution explicitly says we have a right to bear arms and protect ourselves. what happens is the shooter and all the other mass shooters reject virtue. >> brian: they all have the same point of view, jimmy fallon gets in trouble for ratings but they all despise president trum president trump, they mock him endlessly where you can't even find the humor it's just a point of view. in this situation, if not now, when? can we find out what happened, kent how he passed his background check and where we go from here? >> not just that but they don't talk educated -- with an educated view about guns, they don't know what an automatic or a semiautomatic guns is but they have these talking points about this issue. it comes to a point now where we have to start pushing back on this agenda. we need peace in this country and we need the second amendment
to protect ourselves but these guys don't care about it. many of these people, i know this is not pc but many of these people weren't born in this country, they don't know what we went through, they don't know what we went through as a nation. as a black man in america, it took the second amendment, we didn't just become free, it took the second amendment to fight off the oppression that was happening, it took white and black folks to fight against them. >> brian: everyone wants a solution, i'm watching the vietnam series and johnny carson after a horrific day in vietnam, says were not going to do the tonight show tonight and i'm going to toss it to my news division. in times of horror, maybe the responsible thing is to throw at 22020 and not keep it on jimmy kimmel.
>> i 100% agree with president trump and calling out the hypocrisy of fake news, presenting themselves as experts and people they should take seriously. you pointed out this monster who perpetrated these attacks passed the rigorous background checks. he passed background checks in multiple states. the it's not about that, it's about reconstituting our national fabric and saying we believe in virtue, we believe that character matters. if you talk about character, those late-night characters down in hollywood, they will make fun of you and say that you are wacko over a year religious nut job. how about we talk about that? >> what legislation if the liberal's could name one thing that we could have done to prevent this. i'm all ears. >> 48% of the country says they own a gun in the home. >> brian: over the last eight
years, gun purchases have been up to 50%, overall gun violence is down significant labor it everyone wants a solution, nobody wants to tolerate this. i think people should stop blaming and we can at least get the facts out, great conversation, thanks so much. president trump visiting puerto rico, former campaign manager cory lewandowski joins us to analyze the president and the challenges he has had to face over the last seven months. rodney and his new business.
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cares. amid the ongoing attacks from democrats who have been charged the administration moving much slower to deal with the crisis in puerto rico to deal with the responses in texas, florida, louisiana. 90 and 95 residents of puerto rico are still without power, some struggling to find potable water he jokes that puerto rico's troubles had thrown the federal budget out of whack. the president quickly added that was fine because the government has saved lives, even talk of saving lies cause controversy, the president caused the death toll, now jumped over 30, not as bad as the over 800 death after katrina a comment he tried to clarify with an interview with geraldo rivera. >> president trump: if you look at one statistic, 16 deaths is a far too many debts, if you look at katrina in the
thousands, this is a storm the likes of which nobody has ever seen. we had fema before the storm even came, they were on the island and they were on the island during the first term, they got hit by two hurricanes. were very proud of the job we've done. >> mr. president, enough, stop bleeding puerto rico for the store the that devastated their shores, i don't remember the president telling texas the budget was out of whack. >> i'm not-so-subtle shot at san juan mayor carline cruz who the president shook hands with t they had a war of words over the weekend. as for the mayor's claims of a week a federal response, defense secretary james madison said there are now about 10,000 u.s. troops on the ground in puerto rico, an astonishing number.
>> brian: thanks for the recap, politics as usual even when it comes to hurricanes. karl rove was on with martha maccallum today where he didn't exactly have glowing reviews for president trump's trip to puerto rico. >> i don't think that he did anywhere near as well as he did yesterday when he was talking about las vegas, i thought his remarks on las vegas were extraordinary. he showed an unnecessary sensitivity to the criticism over the federal effort here. >> brian: cory lewandowski, karl rove was saying it was one of the best speeches that president trump ever gave a couple of days ago. is he right in saying he made some mistakes in puerto rico? >> the federal government and the trump administration have been all in in puerto rico just as they have been in texas when it's come to florida, the full weight of the government is there. they have set in the government has agreed whatever they need, the trump administration is going to provide.
this is a mainstream media, this is a liberal left agenda that they want to perpetuate that says the president isn't doing everything he can to help the people of puerto rico, that's just not true. he and melania trump where they are today to show and to demonstrate the full resolve of the u.s. government is supporting the of puerto rico. >> brian: the death toll climbed up to 34 today, he did have those meetings he does relate to people one-on-one. he wins people over who might be on the fence because of the sincerity he brings to the tabl table. he's got another challenge and is tomorrow. go out to las vegas a city he loves in a place that he knows and try to make sense of it. what advice would you have for the president if you were by his side tomorrow? >> the tragedy in las vegas is incomprehensible for any administration at what he has shown and what he has demonstrated, he's going to go there tomorrow, he's going to talk to the people, talk to the
loved ones who lost people in that terrible tragedy and make sure that the people on the ground some of the first responders are going to have all the resources that they need to make sure the federal government is acting in such a way that ensures this is not a lone gunman incident, all of the resources of the government will be there. this is very critical, the president has said whatever the resources are that are necessary to make sure that las vegas is a safe and secure, the federal government will be able to provide those. >> brian: bill clinton changed around his administration after oklahoma, heartfelt comments. george bush after a divided country thought he was an illegitimate president, got 90% approval rating after the way he handled 9/11 on top of that fire truck, does president trump have the same opportunity? >> he says, if you look at the tragedies of the country, this
terrible tragedy the president is a uniter, is not a divider, he's bringing people together. he's entering people that people from all political parties whether it's republican, democrat, independent have the resources that they need to be successful. that's what the president does best, that's what he's going to las vegas tomorrow. >> brian: cory lewandowski sticking around, we'll talk about that visit what's at stake, also update you on the unfolding investigation as his girlfriend comes back from the philippines, should be in america tomorrow. she's got a lot of explaining to do, don't go anywhere. huh! we gotta go. come on. ♪ "grandma! grandpa!" ♪
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for #1 rated customer satisfaction over cable switch to directv. call 1-800-directv. -ahh. -the new guy. -whoa, he looks -- -he looks exactly like me. -no. -separated at birth much? we should switch name tags, and no one would know who was who. jamie, you seriously think you look like him? uh, i'm pretty good with comparisons. like how progressive helps people save money by comparing rates, even if we're not the lowest. even if we're not the lowest. whoa! wow. i mean, the outfit helps, but pretty great. look at us. >> what have been in las vegas is in many ways a miracle. to the police department has done such an incredible job. and we will be talking about it as time transpires. >> brian: the comment at the
end of the statement en route to puerto rico has some worried that the president is going to get caught up with chuck and nancy when it comes to guns. let's bring in campaign manager corey lewandowski who knows the president as well as anyone. especially in unscripted situations like that. people on the right i think the president will be caught up in this and not take a quick look -- a look at gun laws. if they are worried, do they have a right to worry? >> brian, i know the president very, very well. i was a first responder. i was a police officer. i understand the terrible tragedy that has taken place in nevada, but look, this is not a reactionary thing. there is no law that would have been on the books that prevents insane people, crazy people from doing terrible, terrible things. we can make every law we want in the world, and that does not stop people from going out and doing crazy things. so, look, this person that we
understand, that we know of, purchased every firearm illegally, he had no criminal record. he is a 64-year-old individual who had no predisposition of committing a terrible tragedy. you can pass all the laws you want in the world, it is not going to make a difference paid when it comes to the issue of gun control, you cannot stop people who are mentally deranged from doing terrible things. >> brian: the fat that he brought that up, he is saying, i'm not shutting off the left to be alt-right, because this ie together. we will look at if this is preventable, i think it is arrogant to say, i'm not looking at that. that cannot be the case. it is a unifying statement, but i was shocked about how many conservative websites were saying, oh, my goodness, the president is abandoning the gun. >> there is no abandoning the gun. he has conceal and carry licenses in the state of new york. one of the hardest states in the country to do that. i'm sure he does not carry a
weapon anymore, but he has a license because he went through the proper process. the differences it is very simple. when you legislate and you make laws for people who are following those laws, the criminals do not follow laws. to this individual actually had all of the guns legally, what we understand. so you can make all the laws you want, it does not stop a mentally deranged person from perpetuating and perpetrating a crime like this, an absolute disaster. >> brian: the president will be on the ground tomorrow in las vegas. he will see how bad it is and what this assassin was all about. corey lewandowski, thank you so much for the quality time. have a great night. meanwhile, i have to tell you that you can catch me tomorrow on "fox & friends" against geraldo herrera who did in an exclusive interview. we have more on that. also on my radio show on 9:00- 9:00-noon, the brian kilmeade show. and with my guests jorge
middle income people and for jobs. it will also benefit lots of other things. i mean, we're looking to -- if you look at the whole thing, everybody's going to benefit. but i think the greatest benefit is going to be for jobs and for the middle class, middle income. >> all right, cnn's boris sanchez joining us from the white house. the president sounding really confident going into this week as he heads off to camp david. but, you know, he's not quite doing a victory lap just yet. >> that's right, fred. he's still kind of selling this bill as you just heard him do before he departs for camp david. right now the white house is cautiously optimistic that barring any kind of procedural snafu this will be their first major legislative victory, the passing of the first major tax reform bill in more than 30 years. they're confident, in part, because we've seen some republican senators that were previously in the no column switching over to yes, including florida senator marco rubio who drew a red line on thursday
thad cochran had an outpatient procedure on monday. his office says he will be on hand for this vote when it takes place either late tuesday or wednesday as it's looking like right now. and then of course senator john mccain, who's being treated for brain cancer here in washington, d.c. at walter reed medical center. his office has said he will be there for a vote. but sources are telling cnn that his health is very frail. we should note that president trump called walter reed yesterday and spoke with cindy mccain, the senator's wife, to offer best wishes and to check in. before heading to camp david, the president was asked about john mccain's health by reporters, but he did not give any indication as to how the senator was doing, fred. >> all right, boris sanchez, thanks so much from the white house. of course there are some sticking points and there have been along the way for this tax bill. senator marco rubio threatening to vote against it at the last minute. but then the late edition now of a $2,000 child tax credit change
is from a yes to a no. they wanted this included, something that wasn't in the house version. senate won out and the final version eliminates that mandate. i want to bring in our political panel. julian seleteser, cnn political analyst and historian at princeton. and our other guest, reporter for "the washington post." good to see you both. julian, you first the president expected to potentially do a real victory lap. this would be his first, you know, legislative accomplishment, but given that this bill is so unpopular, the president is unpopular, congress is unpopular, it's not necessarily reform, say some, but, instead, a new plan. how big of a victory might this be for the president? >> the good news for him is accomplishing something on the legislative front is significant and he will be able to point to
this as other republicans will be. as a change in domestic policy and a tax cut that a lot of the business community will be excited about. the bad news is this is the second most unpopular piece of legislation in about 30 years. so the republicans will really have to sell why this is necessary. and they'll be after effects that republicans will have to contend with, including taxes going up for many people in northeastern and the states and in california where there are many republicans who will face an angry electorate. >> so karoon, if they have to sell, you know, that this is something the americans really need, really sell it, when is there time to do that, will that even happen? >> that is their -- what they have to do in the next several months. look, this is a win for the gop to have said look, we can actually get our act together and pass a comprehensive, after a whole year in which they
managed to not meet the mark they set for themselves. it's good for the gop members in the congress that are running again, a lot of this stuff does not kick in until the next tax cycle which people will not start to feel until they're doing their taxes at the end of 2018. when it starts to matter is when people start to do their actual budgeting of whether they made out better or worse and we know some of these provisions for lower and middle class folks are expiring earlier than others. this will all start to kind of be a moment of reckoning before we get to the 2020 cycle. so there may be -- there may be individuals who are able to sell this as promises still of what you will be able to see that will be better. the bottom line, the actual tax bracket is, but the bottom line for people where they live when you're kind of balancing out both, okay, what is your raw tax bracket, but what is also the added burden that you don't necessarily have that health care mandate anymore with these
subsidies, that's going to take longer for people to feel where they live and their actual budgeting at home. can you get through one election cycle or more? probably it starts to become difficult after the next november. >> julian, a legislative win, does it potentially change the game at all for this president? >> i don't think it changes the game because president trump will still be president trump and my guess is the twitter feed will be filled with controversy in the coming weeks and the more controversial issues that he is involved in will not stop and so all of that will undercut the bill and the problems we've discussed. will also be problems that the gop needs to deal with, rather than a piece of legislation they can just boast about. none of that goes away. that said, having a victory undercuts some of his opponents who say that he can't achieve anything. and that the republican party is in total disrepair. so that's -- that's good for the
administration. but i think all those other problems remain. it's not a turning point that transforms president trump. >> all right. let's talk about a little shake-up taking place in the white house among staff. i'm talking about the departure of onmarosa from the white hous this week and all the publicity it received. she now very publicly kind of questioning the diversity of the white house. white house press secretary sarah sanders was asked about diversity following this departure and even, you know, the question is about that too and here's what sanders had to say. >> was omarosa leaving, how many senior staffers here at the white house are african-american? >> we have a really diverse team across the board at the white house. we always want to continue to grow the diversity here. we're going to continue to do that. and continue to work hard. i don't have a number directly in front of me specifically not african-american but i can say, again, we have a very diverse team at the white house. certainly very diverse team in
the press office. and something that we strive for every day is to add and grow to be more diverse and more representative of the country at large. >> so karoun, she didn't really answer the question, because she was asked specifically about the number of, you know, african-americans who are considered senior staffers and she talked broadly about diversity. so will there be greater pressure, particularly after this departure, for the white house to be able to specifically address that question? >> sure, there's going to be greater pressure. the question is how do they respond to that pressure? there's always pressure on the white house to have a staff that seems more representative of the demographics of the country than necessarily there is. this particular white house has a lot of white men in it, especially when you're looking at the cabinet and the inner circle. yes, the president's daughter is there too. but you don't see a ton of racial diversity. there's a few minorities in the
cabinet level position. but not people that are front and center in the biggest jobs and the ones that are kind of on camera every day. >> i guess i wonder if this white house hasn't felt like it had to acquiesce to the question of, you know, is the staff at all representative of the demographics of the nation with this departure. does this now press the white house to say we have to be more transparent about the representation or lack thereof? >> it may increase the pressure but again, there's all kinds of pressure to this white house that they choose to respond to. does this mean they're going to turn around in the next month and find, you know, promote african-american people to be taking over, you know, jobs that are within the president's inner circle? that's not the way they've operated thus far. i can't predict what they may do to respond to the pressure. certainly this is now in public as criticism. the president does not always respond to public criticism so it's an open question. >> julian. >> yes, this is a president who's taken on affirmative
action. who has often mocked the idea of diversity. so i doubt whether that pressure will really get to him or get to his inner circle and at the same time i could almost imagine him using this as one of those cases where he's under attack from the politically correct quote/unquote crowd. and acts in defiant fashion. so it's often hard to prediction how he'll respond to these issues. >> there's that today "washington post" story that's talking about whether people in a meeting at the cdc were told even among the words no longer to use in written documents diversity, but we don't have any official word from the white house whether there's a directive and whether that meeting really took place, even though "the washington post" standing by its reporting and the sources that were at that meeting. all right, thanks to both of you, julian, karoun, appreciate it, happy hanukkah, happy holidays. still ahead, president trump's lawyers are set to meet with special counsel robert
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the russia investigation could be headed for a few pivotal moments next week. sources say a key meeting is set to take place between president trump's private lawyers and the special counsel where the president's team is hoping to learn the investigation is northe nearing its end. this comes as music publicist rob goldstone who set up meeting is set to testify in congress at any moment now, any day now. let's bring in cnn's nic robertson who is in moscow for us. nic, what role is this publicist playing in the investigation? when is he likely to testify to? >> well, we got an idea of it when he talked to a journalist from a british newspaper about a month or so ago and he said he wants to clear up his involvement in all of this. he says he is just an innocent
party. that he was asked by one of the mus music, you know, a singer based in russia who he represents to set him up with a meeting with donald trump jr. and this is what he went ahead and did. but obviously for the investigators, they're going to want to know about what he meant by some of the things he said and the e-mail when he set this up that he would be bringing a russian government prosecutor with him, natalya valiskaya. she has come out on television and raised her own questions and doubts about goldsteen and the v veracity of what he might see. so an effort to undermine whatever he tells the investigators. but key will be to find out what he said in that e-mail, that he would be able to hook up trump jr. with people who could give him information, russian government information, that
could be detrimental to hillary clinton. they're going to want to know and understand more about it. and the other avenue that they may want to explore with rob goldstein as well, goldstein has said that he was in moscow in 2013 with donald trump when he was here for a miss universe pageant at that time so there will be perhaps elements of now president trump, donald trump at the time, visit to moscow then that they may want to talk about because there's been that document, the dossier that was produceded by fusion -- by fusion gps, contributed by former mi6 analyst christopher steele, that perhaps pertain to activities and events during that visit in 2013 so goldstein may be able to provide clarity on those issues. that's what investigators are likely to want to probe and find out more, but specifically what
he meant when he said russian officials haven't had information that could damage hillary clinton. >> all right, nic robertson in moscow, thanks. all right, still ahead, the cdc reportedly given a list of words prohibited from use in any official documents by the trump administration. among them, fetus, transgender and diversity. what might this say about the legacy of the trump administration?
science-based when preparing next year's budget. "the washington post" reports the trump administration gave the cdc, the centers for disease control, a list of seven prohibited words and phrases including vulnerable, entitlement, diversity, transgender, fetus, evidence-based and science-based. the health and human services spokesperson disputes that "washington post" report, saying, quote, the assertion that hhs has banned words is a complete mischaracterization of discussions regarding the budget formulation process. hhs also strongly encourages the use of outcome and evidence data in program evaluations and budget decisions. a longtime cdc analyst told the post the reaction in the room was mostly "are you serious?" joining us now via skype from washington is lena sun, national health reporter for "the washington post." lena, i should say, hi, good to
see you. this is pretty extraordinary reading this. a lot of your information, you and another reporter, your information is based on people who were in the room who -- anonymous, they're not revealing themselves because they were not speaking in an official capacity, right, so based on these sources, did anyone in the room at the time of this meeting or announcement ask what is the basis of these bans and why? >> so you have to understand the federal budget process. we're in that now. federal agencies are working on coming up with the documents to say here's what we do with the money that the federal government gives us. and they describe those programs. and that's where we are now. and this is the context for which those words were told to these budget analysts that they weren't supposed to use them. because some drafts had included these words and they were being kicked back and they were flagged as, you know, needing
correction. in the case of three of those words, was in writing that they were kicked back. and when the senior person that's a career civil servant had this meeting with the budget analyst, she said and there are other words and then she listed the words and then they were not supposed to use them. >> was there any challenge in the room as to why? >> no, you have to understand, these people are budget -- their job is to write up the budget and if you put in these words -- well, if you put them in at your level, they're going to get taken out later on. so save yourself some time and don't put them in because they're just going to get kicked back and delay the process. >> e guess there's a feeling too if they publicly dissent, i mean, in the room, then their jobs are in jeopardy? >> well, the job is to write the budget. the cdc is part of hhs. hhs is part of the federal government. this is what they've been told they do. they would -- this is what they got to do to keep their jobs. >> right, right, and so in
your -- in your "washington post" reporting, you say that people -- your sources allege that, you know, this list of the seven words and phrases that was delivered by or at least this meeting was, you know, led by allison kelly, a senior leader in the agency's office, financial offices? >> she is the deputy director of the office of appropriations which is part of the office of financial resources, which is a lot of, you know, technical terms to mean that's the part of the agency that comes up with the budget that gets the information from other parts of theate j aiat theate, the agency, sending up the chain. it's not her job to say, oh, we're not going to be able -- >> do we know where the directive cam from? >> we don't, we don't know where it came from, but if you understand the budget process, the office of management and budget is the ultimate arbiter of what goes in the bubldget.
the budget document reflects what the president's priorities are. and i would imagine they would be uniform across the government. so you notice one of the words that was forbidden or people were told not to use is the word entitlement. cdc is not an agency that has any of the entitlement programs. that suggests to me that this is something broader within hhs. >> all right, it's fascinating read. lena sun, thank you so much, happy hanukkah, happy holidays. all right, still ahead, one of president trump's judicial nominees gets grilled during his confirmation hearing. we'll bring you that very awkward moment next.
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wright and first degree murder of lorenzen wright. they are presumed innocent until proven guilty. >> when police was asked about the relationship between the two suspects, police said, quote, it's safe to say they knew each other. president trump's efforts to remake the federal courts are off to a rather quick start with the senate confirming 12 appeals court judges in the president's first year, a modern record. but some of trump's nominees have come under fire for their extreme lack of experience or even basic legal knowledge. the latest example, matthew peterson, a commissioner on the federal election commission. cnn justice reporter laura jarrett has the story. >> this cringe-worthy exchange between republican senator john kennedy and president trump's nominee for a powerful seat on the federal bench in d.c. is raising questions about the qualifications of the people president trump is appointing. in this case, matthew peterson
admits he hasn't tried a case, has no basic grasp open basic legal motions filed routinely in federal court and really no familiarity with the legal standards he'll be tasked with applying. >> have you ever tried a jury trial? >> i have not. >> civil? >> no. >> criminal? >> no. >> bench? >> no. >> state or federal court? >> i have not. >> do you know what a motion in limine is? >> i would probably not be able to give you a good definition. >> do you know what the youunge abstention doctrine is? >> i've heard of it. >> how about the pullman abstention doctrine? you'll see that a lot in federal court. okay. >> this exchange right on the heels of news earlier this week that the white house is also withdrawing the nomination of brett tally who was unanimously rated not qualified by the american bar association, as well as the nomination of jeff mater who was up for a seton the
federal trial court in texas but the team found comments where he disparaged transgender children, fred. >> laura jarrett, thank you. let's bring in our legal guys. avery freeman, a civil rights attorney and richard friedman, a criminal defense attorney. good to see you both. happy hanukkah, happy holiday. >> you too. >> you first, avery, this gentleman nominated for a lifetime appointment. the questions that mr. kennedy was asking about his knowledge or experience of, you know, different various types of trial, you know, attorney work or even awareness of motions. is that typical that an attorney or -- would have had all of that experience before being considered for this kind of bench? >> yeah! i mean, the amazing thing about this is not that he didn't know anything, the idea that you appear before a judiciary committee and i've done it and believe me, you prepare, because you've got like ten people
firing questions at the same time. what it seems like is i don't think matthew peterson is a lunchhe lunckhead, fredricka, i think he wasn't prepared. give credit to senator kennedy from louisiana. a trump supporter who supported his other judicial nominations but he said, you know what, we are a check and balance against the executive branch and, you know what, within five minutes, there was nothing left of matthew peterson. he may be good for an administrative post somewhere but in a federal courthouse, huh-uh, wrong guy. >> it was a humiliating moment. you don't have to be from the field of law to just kind of feel for peterson at that moment. so richard, you know, the american bar association rated peterson as qualified, but, you know, he clearly failed to answer basic questions. so qualified based on what then? why would, you know, the ada say that? >> he's not qualified, fred, and
i don't believe the aba said that. >> yes, they did. >> this is so disturbing, fred, on so many levels. you know, united states district court judge, these are some of the best and brightest of the judges in the history of the united states jurisprudence system. they really are. they're appointments for life. they don't answer politically. they don't have to run for office. you walk into a federal court, these are very serious cases, fred. that's where i make a living. people are facing 20, 30 years in prison. the civil lawsuits are usually $100,000 and above. it's very, very serious. and to think the creed dullty of this individual to think he had the ability to be a federal court judge. it's like sarah palin, couldn't count to ten, thought she could be the vice president of the united states. >> except he didn't nominate himself. somebody said, hey, i got this great potential opportunity, you want to be able to step up and
say yes. but then he's also being underserved perhaps by others who said we do think you're qualified, it doesn't matter that you haven't, you know, argued in civil, you know, or bench or criminal cases. >> don mcgann, the white house counsel, is who. that's the answer. >> no, he never -- fred, he never did a trial! he never did a small claims court trial. >> even we heard senator kennedy say no depositions, i mean, independently -- >> not one deposition did he handle on his own, fred. come on, he didn't know a motion in limine. a first year law student, a parallel, it's on every bar exam. how do you not know that? it's an abomination. >> you haven't used that word in a while, i like that. avery, the white house though is contending and they even put out a statement saying peterson is qualified. the president's opponents are the ones who keep trying to distract. senator john kennedy, you know, the republican there, you know, was the lawmaker who was grilling peterson.
he was a guest on cnn just last night. >> you can't just walk into a federal courthouse for the very first time and say here i am, i think i want to be a judge. it just doesn't work that way. >> so avery, i guess every one is relieved that no, it doesn't work that way it shouldn't be so easy. you actually have to be up for the task. >> well, that's right. beyond the fact that clearly the nominee hadn't been prepared, this isn't lunck-headedness, this is stupidity. i think it's unbridled arrogance coming out of the white house counsel. don mcgann was one of the -- well, the most instrumental person in setting this nominee up. you walked into the judiciary committee and a republican senator ate the guy alive. if anything, the blame -- let me tell you something, in the history of federal court, in the history of our federal legal system, it is not exclusively
republican. democrats have done the same thing. when you put in a candidate like that, by and large, you're going to see exactly what happened yesterday. and you know what, it proves that the system works. the legislative branch checks the executive braj and yesterday arrogance lost and competence won. >> you can't help but be humiliated for peterson too. either he wasn't prep order somehow no one knew these are the kinds of questions you would be asked or needed to be prepared for in order to, you know, sit on the bench to have such an incredibly important job for life. >> right. >> fred, these were not esoteric questions they were asking him. a motion in limine is a motion made before trial to preclude evidence. it's a basic motion. it's one and one is two. if you're a lawyer, you know this, fred. he didn't know that! >> that's why he wasn't going to get confirmed.
>> it's not preparation -- >> maybe he thought he would not and people around him thought it was going to happen. all right. well, richard -- >> clearly, he was not -- he missed law school the day they taught law. this guy -- >> ah, this guy -- >> this is a disgrace, this just shows utter incompetence to appoint someone like this to the federal bench. it's a disgrace. even the republicans are losing their minds over this. >> i'm no attorney but just watching it, it was more than cringe worthy. it was painful. >> exactly right. >> richard herman, avery friedman, good to see you both. >> congratulations on your nomination, 49th naacp image awards, you deserve it, fred, congratulations. >> absolutely. >> thank you so much, i feel really honored. thanks to you, avery and richard, appreciate it. always helping us all shine. have a great holiday, see you next time.
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>> reporter: welcome back to beattyville, kentucky. president trump won 81% of the vote in this county. when we came here right after the inauguration, there was a lot of hope. people were betting that president trump could turn things around for them here, bring back jobs and prosperity. >> the day of the election, everybody was excited. fresh meat in the white house. >> reporter: so we've come back a year later to find out if the president has lived up to their hopes. are you getting that change you voted for yet? >> i am seeing attempt at change. i'm still hopeful. i don't think any of the problems that we have is gonna be quick fixes. >> reporter: herald and lee andra live in beattyville, kentucky, with their three daughters. leandra's a artist. harold is a mason. he drives two hours each way to and from work because the best paying job he could find around here only paid $11 an hour. it's steady work but he's making
less than he was a year ago. they invited us to this family meal, nearly a year after we first met them following the election. >> we were the ones that kind of fell in the crack. >> reporter: can donald trump help you? >> we'll see. >> if he brings some jobs in here. >> he don't have insurance. i don't have insurance. >> reporter: now she's still hopeful but still without health insurance. did you try to sign up for obamacare this year? >> yes, i checked and it was like $600. >> reporter: obamacare's too expensive for you. >> yes. >> reporter: but you guys make too much money to qualify for medicaid. >> uh-huh, stuck in the middle. >> reporter: and you got pretty sick recently. >> yes. >> reporter: did you avoid going to the doctor, checking it out for a while because you didn't have health insurance? >> absolutely. i've lost like 60 pounds in the last six months. >> reporter: if nothing changes on health care, by 2020, does he get your vote again? >> there would be a really, really good possibility because i see congress standing in the way more than him.
i've worked six shifts this week so i'm pretty tired. it's paycheck to paycheck every time. >> reporter: their 22-year-old daughter sara makes them immensely proud. your hope for them? >> that they can find happiness without having to just break their i have a degree in public health and human services. >> you tried to get jobs in the town with your degree. >> yes. >> what happened? >> everything was like $8 or $9 an hour. >> but you have thousands in student loan debt. >> yes. >> so the system isn't working for you. >> no. >> sara didn't work, she says, no time because she was working three jobs. she has been hoping for change largely for her parents. >> here you are watching your mom go through this. >> it breaks my heart. i could cry talking about it.
my mom is the best person. she would give anything to anybody. and she can't get the help she needs. it's not her fault. >> and you can't help. >> i can't do anything to help her. >> you don't make enough to pay for that. >> nope. >> beattyville is a community struggling. according to the data, more than half the people live below the poverty line and the majority of the county are on medicaid. >> beattyville has been home for you since you were born. >> home sweet home. if you want to get back to nature here is where you want to come. >> he is trying to tap into that building cabins for to yourists >> his auto shop is struggling. >> you've lost old, we've had a lot of coal mining. >> is that part of why you voted
for president trump? >> yes. that was a lot. >> this coal facility people kept telling us reopened after the election. it's nowhere near big enough to turn this economy around. >> how has the president done one year in? >> he has done, or tried to do more of his promises than any other president. >> he's tried. but has he succeeded? >> no. he's not been able. it's been one stumbling stone. >> who do you blame for getting into his way? >> a lot of politicians. the way i see it, he is a normal person like myself. not a politician. he don't talk like a politician. >> he's a billionaire from new york city. >> he's a billionaire from new york city. he's not a politician. >> he is. he's the president. >> he's the president, but -- >> he's a politician. >> you no good and well he don't act like one. >> what will it take for president trump to win your vote again in 2020? >> all he's got to do is run
again, honey. >> that's it? >> that's it. >> but that's not it for this man. after voting for president obama twice, he cast his ballot for president trump. >> he's not the man i thought he was. he's not. he just -- he's overbearing. and he's not getting nothing done. >> he says he's accomplished nor than any president. >> he has not. he talks a good talk, but can he walk the walk. he said he'd put everybody back to work. >> jobs with a living wage. that's what he said would lift beattyville up, not government assistance. for now, he relies on its father's va benefits to get by as he takes care of his mother. >> i'm not -- if i went to find work i'd have to leave here. >> if you look at the population that could be working but not what would you say it is? >> at least 30%. 35%. >> that's scary. >> it is. it's that way all over these towns. >> something else ripping at the
foundation of so many communities, including this one, the drug epidemic. >> the drug epidemic in our county leads back to jobs, because if there were jobs people wouldn't feel forted ced do things such as drugs. >> this 18-year-old knows all too well. >> last summer a bunch of drug related murders. it bothered me real bad so i wrote a song about it. there's plenty of people just sitting at the house right now praying for a job. it's killing them. they want to work and provide for the families but don't have the means ♪ a long time, a man named bobby joe ♪ ♪ spent -- >> kentucky's crackdown on the opioid crisis has landed more people behind bars. it was announced a big employer will reopen. it's the private prison right
down here. so yes, it means more jobs here, but it's because of the heart breaking impact that drugs are having here and across the country. >> does president trump get credit for the prison reopening? >> yeah. >> no. no. >> tprospects, what are they? >> they're grim. they're grim because right now, we're clinging to the past. the only way we're going to fix eastern kentucky is get entrepreneurship. create jobs by people creating businesses. >> some are. >> some are. >> it's time that our community is seen in a more positive light. i think that's what my generation and the current leaders of beattyville have decided to do. we want to have a community that our children don't have to graduate and leave. they want them to see that you can live here and be happy and
successful. >> did you think about leaving? >> i have, but i love this town. this is more than just where i debris up. this is my family. >> we have to learn to support each other. we can't weight for somebody to pull us out of a hole. >> 81% of the people here voted for president trump. what has he brought to beattyville? >> he brought hope. without hope, you have nothing. >> people have been optimistic because they wanted trump to win. they actually put in an effort. once they seen he won, they took the initiative and done something. >> we're poverty stricken but happiness is rich here. if you're happy, you're rich. cannot live without it.
ex-wives and ex-girlfriend. how does the fbi fit into that. we just learned some very interesting if not completely clear information from the head of the fbi director. i want to bring in chris cillizza, who is here with me to discuss this. there is a lot to unpack here from russian meddling in the election and how that feaffects the midterms coming up. the timeline had it comes to rob porter, you know what, pause for a moment, chris, let's return to the testimony at the senate intelligence committee. >> -- they're out in the community, and i can tell you the community values what they do on the island. >> thank you. and an op-ed by a number of former intelligence analysts call the nunes memo and the release, quote, one of the worst cases of politization of intelligence in modern american history, unquote. you said you had concerns about that memo. i know you can't get into the
sure i stay on the unclassified side. we have seen intentions to have an impact on the next election cycle here. >> director coats? >> yes, we have. >> anyone else? admiral rogers? >> yes, i think this would be a good topic to get into greater detail in this afternoon. >> according to news reports, there are dozens of white house staff with only interim security clearances still. to include jared kushner until last week, to include white house staff secretary rob porter, who i would assume would have regularly reviewed classified documents as part of his job. director coats, if someone is flagged by the fbi with areas of concern into white house staff with interim clearances, should those staff continue to have access to classified materials? >> let me first just speak in
can be in a position to receive or not receive. so i think that's something that we have to do as a part of our security clearance review. the process is broken. it needs to be reformed. as senator warner has previously said, it is not evolution, it is revolution, we have 700,000 backups so we have situations where we need people and places, but they don't yet have that. your specific question, i think, i would like to take up in the classified session. >> chairman, i'm over my time, thank you, director coats. >> thank you, mr. chairman. director coats, director pompeo, admiral rogers, you all talked about evidence that the russians would intend to do things that would be active in our elections. i really -- it seems to me two divisions of that activity.
different from state to state. that's a strength, not a weakness in my view. but what are some of the things we can do to be more helpful to local election officials and encouraging them to share information when they think their systems are being attack ed getting more information to them than we have. there is a lot of criticism in the last cycle that we knew that some election systems were being attacked and didn't tell them they were being attacked and so the three of you, in any order, let's just do the order i started with, director coats, director pompeo, admiral rogers, any thoughts you have on what we can do to protect and how quickly we need to act this year. >> the intelligence community is aware. we want to provide a -- collect and provide as much information
as we can so we can give the warnings and alerts so we can share information back and forth with local and state and election processes with the federal government. department of homeland security, department of the fbi, obviously were involved, given these are domestic issues. but we do look to every piece of intelligence we can gather so we can provide warnings. it is an effort that i think the government needs to put together at the state and local level and work with those individuals engaged in the election process in terms of the security of their machines, cyberplays a major role here. i think it is clearly an area where federal government, foreign collection, potential threats and interference, warnings, and then processes in terms of how to put in place security and secure that to ensure the american people that their vote is sanctioned and
well, and not manipulated in any way whatsoever. >> director pompeo. >> i was referring to the former, the first part of your question, not truly to the latter, the things we have seen russia doing to date are information types of warfare, the things that senator warner was speaking out most directly earlier. with the respect to the cia's role, we have two missions, one is to identify the source of this information, make those here aware of it so they can do the things they need to do, whether that is fbi or dhs. so that they have that information, we're working diligently along many threat factors to do that. and then the second thing is we have some capabilities offensively. to raise the cost for those who would dare challenge the united states elections. >> and after admiral rogers, i may want to come to you and see on the same, sharing information, any impediments to sharing that information with local officials, any reason we
wouldn't want to do that. admiral rogers? >> the only other thing i would add and this is also shaped by my experience as cybercommand where i defend networks, one thing we generally find in that role, many network and system operators do not truly understand their own structures and systems. so one thing that i think is part of this is how do we help those local, federal, state entities truly understand their network structure, what its potential eventual nrbl tvulner. it is not an intel function, but it is part of how do we work our way through this process. >> director wray? >> i think that's one area that has been a lot of discussion about whether we're doing better and this is one of the areas we are doing better. we, together, at the fbi, together with dhs, recently, for example, scheduled meetings with various election, state election officials and normally the barrier there would be classification concerns. whether somebody had clearances.
we were able to put together briefings appropriately tailored and with nondisclosure agreements with those officials. so there are ways if people are creative and forward leaning to educate the state election officials which is, of course, you know, where elections are run in this country. >> hopefully we'll be creative and forward leaning and we'll want to keep track of awe'what e doing there. thank you. >> senator king. >> thank you, mr. chairman. first statement i want to make is more in sorrow than in anger. i'll get to the anger part in a minute. the sorrow part is that director coats in response to a question from snr collins, you gave an el quantity factual statement of the activities of the russians and the fact that they're continuing around the world and that they're a continuing threat to this country. all of you have agreed to that. if only the president would say that.
i understand the president's sensitivity about whether his campaign was in connection with the russians and that's a separate question, but there is no question we have got -- before us the entire intelligence community that the russians interfered in the election in 2016, they're continuing to do it and there are real imminent threat to our elections in a matter of eight or nine months. my problem is i talked to people in maine who say the whole thing is a witch-hunt and it is a hoax because the president told me. i just wish you all could persuade the president as a matter of national security to separate these two issues, the collusion issue is over here, unresolved, we'll get to the bottom of that, but there is no doubt as you all have testified today, and we cannot confront this threat, which is a serious one, with a whole of government response, when the leader of the government continues to deny that it exists.
now, let me get to the anger part. the anger part involves cyberattacks. you have all testified that we're subject to repeated cyberattacks, cyberattacks are occurring right now in our infrastructure, all over this country. i am sick and tired of going to these areases, which i've been going to for five years, where everybody talks about cyberattacks and our country still does not have a policy or doctrine or a strategy for dealing with them. this is not a criticism of the current administration. the prior administration didn't do it either. admiral rogers, until we have some deterrent capacity, we'll continue to be attacked. isn't that true? >> yes, sir. we have to change the current dynamic. we're on the wrong end of the cost equation. >> we're trying to fight a global battle with our hands tied behind our back.
there is a stunning statement in the report, they will work to use cyberoperations to achieve strategic objectives unless they face clear repercussions for their cyberoperations. right now there are none! is that not the case? there are no repercussions. we have no doctrine of deterrence. how are we ever going to get them to stop doing this if all we do is patch our software and try to defend ourselfs? >> those are very relevant questions and i think everyone -- not only at this table, but in every agency of government understands the threat that we have here and the impact already being made through the cyberthreats. our role is to provide all the information we can as to what is happening so our policymakers can take that, including the
congress. and shape policy as to how we are going to respond to this and deal with this in a whole of government way. >> just never seems to happen. director pompeo, you understand this issue, do you not? we're not going to be able to defend ourselves from cyberattacks by simply being defensive. we have to have a doctrine of deterrence if they strike us in cyber, they're going to be struck back in some way. may not be cyber. >> i would agree with you. also i would argue i can't say much in this setting, i would argue that your statement that we have done nothing is not reflect the responses that frankly some of us at this table have engaged in, in the united states government engaged in before and after this -- but both during and before this administration. >> but deterrence doesn't work unless the other side knows it. the doomsday machine in dr. strange love didn't work because the russians hadn't told us about it. >> it is true. it is important that the adversary is not a requirement that the whole world know it. >> and the adversary does know it in your view?
>> i prefer to save that for another forum. >> i believe that this country needs a clear doctrine, what is a cyberattack, what is an act of war, what will be the response, what will be the consequences and right now i haven't -- >> senator, i agree with you, we -- it is a complicated problem given the nature of -- i take responsibility for not having been part of solving that too. there is a lot of work to do. we need a u.s. government strategy and clear authorities to go achieve that strategy. >> i appreciate it. i just don't want to go home when there is a serious cyberattack and say we never really got to it, we knew it was a problem, we had four different committees of jurisdiction and we couldn't work it out. >> yes, sir. >> that's not going to fly. >> yes, sir. >> senator, i might add that we don't want to learn this lesson the hard way. 911 took place because we were
not coordinating our efforts. we're now coordinating efforts. but we didn't have the right defenses in place because the right information was not there. our job is to get that right information to the policymakers and get on with it because it is just common sense if someone is attacking you, and there is no retribution or response, it is going to incent -- incentivize more -- right now a lot of blank checks, a lot of things we need to do. >> thanks. i appreciate that. >> senator langford. >> thank you. you and i talked last year about the same issue that senator king was just bringing up about cyberdoctrine and point person on who that would be and a person that would give options to the president and the congress to say if a response is needed, and is warranted, this is the person, this is the entity that would make the recommendations and allow the president to make decisions on what the proper response is. has that been completed?
is there a point person to bible to give recommendations on a appropriate response to a cyberattack to the president? >> that has not yet been completed. your understanding of these stand-up of cybercommand and the new drirector replacing admiral rogers, the decision relative to whether there would be separation between the functions that are currently now nsa and cyber has yet to be made. general mattis will -- is contemplating what the next best step is. and there is -- they have involved the intelligence community in terms of making decisions and that role. but at this particular point, we cannot point to one sort of cyber czar. but various agencies throughout the federal government taking this very, very seriously and there are individuals that we continue to meet on a regular basis. the odni has something called
ctik, a coordination effort for all the cyber that comes in so we don't stove pipe like what we did before 9/11. so things are under way. but in terms -- in terms of putting a finalized -- this is how we're going to do it together still in process. >> with respect to responses to that, these are title ten, dod activities unless granted to another authority. there is a person responsible. sa secretary mattis has that responsibility in all theaters of conflict with adversaries. >> thank you. i want to bring up the issue of the rising threat of what is happening just south our border in mexico. homicide rate went up 27% last year. we had 64,000 americans that died from overdose of drugs, preponderance of those came through or from mexico. we have a very rapidly rising threat it appears to me. what i would be interested from
you all is on a national security level and what you're seeing, what are we facing, what is changing right now in mexico, versus ten years ago in mexico and our relationship and threats coming from there. >> i would defer to you -- >> you're watching the senate intel committee there with all of the heads essentially of the intelligence community. we have learned a lot of new information about russian meddling in the election, what is planned for the upcoming midterm election in 2018 and also some breaking news when it comes to how the fbi informed the white house when it came to the rob porter scandal. we're going to take a quick break. we'll be right back with more after this. as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.
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we have just heard from the heads of intel agencies is going to try to interfere is already under way when it comes to the 2018 midterm elections. we have been hearing from the director of national intelligence, the head of the fbi, the head of the dia, defense intelligence agency and others. i want to bring my panel back in to talk about this. we have josh campbell, former fbi special agent, now a cnn law enforcement analyst, dana bash with us, and chris cillizza, cnn politics reporter and editor at large. there are so many places where we could start. this has been a pretty informative hearing as we were hoping it would be that we could learn more information. i want to start with the rob porter scandal. and how the fbi, we just heard from the director, christopher wray, he was asked about as we really don't know the timeline coming from the white house, about what they knew about rob porter, allegations that he had physically assaulted his two
ex-wives and a girlfriend as well. and the -- and christopher wray said this when asked about the interactions between the fbi, which does that background check for security clearances, did one on rob porter. here is what he said. >> the fbi submitted a partial report on the investigation in question in march. and then a completed background investigation in late july, soon thereafter, we received requests for pollup inquiry. and we did the follow-up and provided that information in november and we administratively closed the file in january and then earlier this month we received some additional information and we passed that on as well. >> when you look at that, and he also said before that, because he didn't want to get into
specific conversations, but he said the fbi followed established protocols. the fbi has not come under fire when it comes to this. it is the fbi, what did they know, did they just -- was ignorance bliss in a way in keeping rob porter in such a key role where he's privy to so many classified information, where he's so close to the president. and this makes it clear that there were multiple -- it does not stand to reason that the top aides at the white house were not aware of the type of allegations that were being made about rob porter. >> exactly. what we just heard from the trump appointed director of the fbi is that ignorance was not bliss because there was no ignorance. the white house knew at multiple stages, at least maybe -- he didn't say who was informed. you have -- it would be very difficult to think that at least the white house counsel didn't know. and then that white house chief of staff ultimately in november
when this -- the full report was completed, and certainly by last month, in january, when he said the administration closed the case. so this completely throws the revolving, evolving white house explanations of what happened into disarray. it completely counters that. and i think at the end of the day, now the question is are we going to get answers from the white house counsel don mcgann, are we going to get answers that we have not yet gotten from the white house chief of staff, john kelly, and can they keep their jobs? and lastly this is what happens when you send a press secretary out to say something that is just flat wrong which is what sarah sanders did yesterday, when she said this isn't us, this is the fbi. well, guess what, the fbi director just happens to be in a
public forum the very next day and he can completely contradict that given the facts of how the process goes, but also how this particular process goes. >> that seems to be a desperate process, after days -- this is so clearly it is so clearly an unforced error and internal error on the part of the white house to then hear sarah sanders say that about the fbi. >> yeah, and, look, last thursday rod shah was in a similar position. he at one point said that porter had been terminated, which was patently untrue. he, to dana's point, he said the fbi background check is ongoing. that was february 8th. if the case had been -- the file had been closed according to director wray in january, it seems unlikely. i think what you have is two -- three main principles there. don mcgann, the white house counsel, john kelly, the white house chief of staff and the president of the united states, all of whom are not -- first two cases, the staffers not
necessarily it seems like sharing the full story at the start with the staff. and that's hugely problematic. trump is in his way different in that no one questioned that he knew about this prior to last tuesday, i believe. the issue for him is different. it is, well, people say privately he's very upset and condemns this, but publicly he seems to be sympathizing with porter. that's sort of over here. but mcgann and kelly are really making it difficult for the sarah sanders, the rod shahs and anyone else trying to plan -- make a cohesive story that is internally consistent. >> what did you think hearing christopher wray say that, he couldn't comment on specific conversations, but he made it clear the fbi was following up -- after the partial report, the completed report, they were asked for more information, the fbi was. they gave more information and
they closed -- that was in november. in january, they closed the investigation, got more information in early february and passed it on. it is -- you would expect and maybe you can speak to this, that was substantive information that the fbi was passing on about rob porter that had to do with the allegations. >> it is true. i think what we saw there is the classic chris wray, even keel, provide the information, they knew what they were getting when they brought him on as the fbi director. and many in the fbi have said, he's going to provide information and go along with what the facts are. so they had to have known that the facts would get out at some point. i can't understand for the life of me why they would have come out, violated the crisis communication 101 rule, tell it all, tell it fast, and provide this narrative that they knew the fbi would come in and counter. >> we're going to listen in, arkansas republican senator tom cotton asking chris wray the fbi director about the steele dossier. >> -- to the threat posed by china and chinese telecom
companies. senator rubio spoke earlier and i agree with what he said about the threat of a rising china and the threat of confucius center and telecom companies and unicom and telecom pose to our country. i introduced legislation with senator cornyn and senator rubio to say the u.s. government can't use ute and the u.s. government can't use companies that use them. and i'm glad some companies like verizon, at&t and others have taken this threat seriously. could you explain what the risk is that we face from zte and waway being used in the united states, the risk that companies, state governments, local governments might face if they use waway or zte products and services. >> i think probably the simplest way to put it is deeply concerned about the risks of allowing any -- >> we're monitoring the senate intelligence committee hearing,
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one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. interest when the president is put if charge of declassifying information that could complicate an ongoing investigation into his own campaign. >> well, senator, as we have been very clear, what our view was about the disclosure and accuracy of the memo in question, but i do think it is the president's role as commander in chief under the rule that was invoked to object or not to the declassification. so i think that, you know, that is the president's responsibility. >> regardless of whether there is an appearance of actual conflict of interest. >> i leave it to others to characterize whether there is appearance or actual conflict of interest. >> if the president asked you tomorrow to hand over to him additional sensitive fbi information on the investigations into his
campaign, would you give it to him? >> i'm not going to discuss the investigation in question with the president, much less provide information from that investigation to him. >> and if he wanted -- if he received that information, and wanted to declassify it, would he have the ability to do that from your perspective? >> information from the -- >> however he received it, perhaps from members of the united states congress. >> i think illegally he would have that ability. >> and do you think the president should recuse himself from reviewing and kldeclassifyg fbi material -- >> i think recusal questions are something i would encourage the president to talk to the white house counsel. >> has the fbi done any legal analysis on these questions? >> well, happily i'm no longer in the business of doing legal analysis. i now get to be a client.
and blame lawyers for things instead of being the lawyer who gets blamed. >> have you blamed any lawyers for their analysis -- >> what's na. >> have you blamed any lawyers for their analysis? >> i have not yet, no. >> okay. is the fbi getting the cooperation it needs from social media companies to counter foreign adversaries on their influence on our elections? >> i think the cooperation has been improve iing. i think we're continuing to work with the social media companies to try to see how we can raise their awareness so that they can share information with us and vice versa. i think things are moving in the right direction. but i think there is a lot of progress to be made. >> what more do you need from social media companies to improve the partnership you would like to have with them to counter these attacks in. >> well, i think we always like to have more information shared more quickly from their end. i think from their perspective,
it is a dialogue. they're looking to get information from us about that it is we see, so that they can give responsive information. so i think we're working through those issues. >> do you believe the social media companies have enough employees that have the appropriate security clearance to make these partnerships real? >> that's not an issue of value, but i would be happy to take a look at it. >> plaez do and follow up with the committee. one thing that makes guarding against foreign intelligence threats on social media so complex is that the threat originates overseas and so that would be within the jurisdiction of the cia and the nsa and then it comes to our shores and then it passes on to the fbi and also the social media companies themselves. i'm not aware of any written ic strategy on how we would confront the threat to the social media. does such a strategy exist? in writing? >> i would have to get back with you on that. i would be happy to look into it
from my perspective right now. a written strategy, specific strategy is not in place, but i want to check on that. >> please do follow up and also last year congress passed a bipartisan russia sanctions bill. however, the administration has not imposed those sanctions. what is your assessment of how russia interprets the administration's inaction? >> i don't have information relative to what the russian thinking is in terms of that particular specific reaction. there are other sanctions that are being imposed on russian oligarchs and others through the united nations and through other things that have been done. in reference to the jcpoa but specifically on your question, i don't have an answer for that. >> can you -- >> may i make a comment, i think it is -- i think we ought to look at that in a broader
context, how the russians view all of the actions of this administration, not just a particular set of sanctions or the absence thereof. as we have watched the russians respond to this administration's decision to provide defensive weapons in ukraine, to push back against russian efforts in syria, sanctions placed on venezuela were directly in conflict with russian interests. the lists of places that the russians are feeling the pain from this administration's actions are long. >> but director pompeo, i'm sure you would agree that in order to understand the full scope of effect it also important that we analyze each discreet component, including what is the interpretation of this administration's failure to enact the sanctions as has been passed and directed by the united states congress and a bipartisan manner. have you done that assessment? >> on closed session i'll tell you what we know and don't know about that discreet issue.
i agree with you, it is important to look at each one in its own place. i think what we most often see in terms of russian response, it is to the cumulative activities in response to russian activities. how the united states responds to those in a cumulative way. >> i look forward it our conversation, thank you. >> yes, ma'am. >> director coats, you alluded to the activities of trans national criminal organizations. i'm thinking particularly as regards our neighbors down south. of our border. recently i heard somebody refer to the cartels, the transnational criminal organizations as xcommodity agnostic, they'll traffic in people, they'll traffic in drugs and other contraband all in pursuit of money. >> whatever brings in the most dollars. >> senator manchin and others alluded to their concern about -- and certainly we all
share the concern about the deaths and overdoses caused by drugs in america. much of which comes across our southern borders -- >> you're watching the senate intel committee as it questions the heads of the intelligence community. and specifically we just heard california democratic senator kamala harris asking christopher wray the fbi director about perhaps conflicts with the president declassifying information that had to do with a member of his campaign. that was in the nunes memo that we saw the declassification of. chris cillizza, i want to ask you about this. it seemed to me that chris wray wasn't biting. he said this is the president's job. whether to classify or declassify, she kept -- she asked repeatedly even if there is a perceived conflict and he said that's for other people to decide. >> he's not going to get -- you don't -- you don't get to become the fbi director by being dumb
about politics. you know, these jobs have a big element of politics in them. he is not going to get in the middle of litigating what remains a hypothetical situation. he won't say, if this happened, then this. >> senator risch said to him not too long ago, well, he said to everybody, but then he singled wray out, warned them about getting enveloped in domestic politics. >> the criticism, theoretically, the reason the white house originally gave for the firing of jim comey was the mishandling and this sort of -- the going around the chain of command as it related to his handling of the hillary clinton e-mail investigation during the 2016 campaign. now, donald trump later said, well, the russia thing to lester holt and that clouded it. the real explanation of why comey was fired, the rod rosenstein memo that trump allegedly based the firing on was this idea that comey had gotten to -- had inserted
himself in the political process which makes chris wray more mindful not to. >> he might have said i'm not going to get involved in the politics. but he did in a re clever, very direct way by saying more than once that he had grave concerns. which we know that he had because the fbi put out a very unusual statement before the president ended up declassifying the republican memo. but as you were saying, when we were watching, one thing to see it on pap, another thing to hear him say it repeatedly. he might not be getting involved in politics, but he's making his stance very, very clear, which is political. >> and choosing, josh, his moments. >> he walks a fine line between his boss, the president of the united states and the rank and file who want to know that someone is out there defending them. >> one other thing i think is really important. remember, donald trump ignored the statement from the fbi, grave concerns, what chris wray has reiterated today, ignored the recommendation of the fbi
and rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, to not release the nunes memo for fear it presented an incomplete picture factually. donald trump cited chris wray, the fbi, rod rosenstein, the justice department, for their concerns about the democratic adam schiff memo. in one week span. so on one hand, he ignored it. on the other hand, he cited it. if you work for the fbi, that has to be -- you're clearly being used when it is advantageous to donald trump. >> they're trying to take the high road and say even though one memo was released which they disagree with, they don't look at it, well, we have to release the other one because the first one was released. they care about the protection of the information and that's going to be their theme. >> i want to see what you thought about something that senator susan collins, republican from maine, talked to the fbi director about, who really i was surprised has been
somewhat the star of the show when it comes to this hearing. here's what she was asking him about when it came to what a really unprecedented in recent decades, clearly politically motivated attacks on the fbi, on the doj, by president trump. >> the president has repeatedly raised concerns about current and former fbi leaders and has alleged corruption and political bias in the performance of the fbi's law enforcement and national security missions. i want to give you the opportunity today to respond to those criticisms. what is your reaction? >> well, senator, i would say that my experience now six months in with the fbi has validated all my prior
experiences with the fbi, which is that it is the finest group of professionals and public servants i could hope to work for. and every day, many, many, many times a day, i'm confronted with unbelievable examples of integrity and professionalism and grit. there are 37,000 people in the fbi who do unbelievable things all around the world and though you would never know it, from watching the news, we actually have more than two investigations. and most of them do a lot to keep >> that part was actually kind of funny, dana, there's more than two investigations? they are doing a lot of work, but he seemed to seize this moment to speak to his rank and file who may be feeling bruised by these attacks. >> no question. and look, this was a toss over the plate, a softball from susan collins so that he could get that kind of comment out about
the fbi rank and file in a way that, frankly, some people have wondered and have criticized him for not doing in a more robust way when the president has criticized the fbi. i thought that was really noteworthy. then if you kind of take a step back, bri, on the whole crux of this hearing which is supposed to be worldwide threats, her colleague from maine, angus king, reminded everybody about what this is all about, which is russia interfering in the 2016 election. and he pleaded with all of the intel heads, please convince the president of the united states that this is a real threat. i mean, can you imagine that that's where we still are, that he doesn't really take it seriously and that a united states senator on the intel committee has to plead with the whole ic to try to convince the president? >> he wanted them to impress the national security importance of that on the president.
you wonder, of course, they've probably already tried to do some of that, but it was so interesting to hear senator king reem fa si reemphasizing that. i do want to go to kaitlyn. kaitlyn, you talked to your sources about the rob porter allegation. what was going on at the time the scandal of his ex-wives broke? tell us what you learned. >> reporter: this comes out of a shift of the narrative coming from the white house about who knew what when about rob porter when these allegations of abuse first surfaced and he bankrupab resigned last week. we're learning not only did he take an important role in the white house, not only that, rob porter was in serious discussions to be promoted when he abruptly resigned last week from the white house. now, he was the staff secretary, a very crucial role in this
white house because he handled all the paper flow that came to the president's desk, executive orders and whatnot. but not only that, he was being considered for several other positions, elevated policy roles across the nation, as well as the deputy chief of staff role, a position that the person who had been serving in that role for less than three months stepped down last week, as cnn reported. we now learned that not only that, rob porter was considered being elevated, considered being promoted in this west wing which just shows these white house officials who were aware of the allegations against porter were able to overlook these potential indications of trouble in his past they had been alerted to by the fbi in order to have someone who is seen as a professional, seen as someone really competent in this very chaotic west wing. and that really just goes even further with what we just saw from the fbi director, christopher wray, right there,
brianna. >> kaitlan collins, thank you for that detail that there were discussions of a promotion for rob porter when all of this broke. now we're going back to the hearing and listen to senator jack reed ask a question here. let's listen. >> we essentially are relying on the investigations that are underway. >> so the answer -- >> both with this committee and the hpsy committee as well as the special counsel. >> you're not taking any specific steps based on the intelligence to disrupt russian activities that are occurring at this moment? >> we take all kinds of steps to disrupt russian activities in terms of what they're trying to do. i think i'll turn it over to director -- >> let me finish with this. are you finished, mr. coats? >> yes. >> thank you, sir. >> senator, we have a
significant effort i'm happy to tell you about in closed session, and it is not just our effort, it is an all of ic effort. there may be others participating as well to do our best to push back against this threat. it's not just a russian threat, it's the iranians and chinese. >> i understand, director, we have mutual threats. but one threat that has been central to our -- and you've testified this publicly -- the last election there was a russian influence. this election they seemed to be more prepared. they've learned their lessons. the simple question i pose, has the president directed the intelligence community in a coordinated effort to not merely report but actively stop this activity? and the answer seems to be, i'm hearing, the reporting is going on as we're reporting about every threat coming into the united states. let me get back to, quickly -- do the other panelists have anything on this point?
>> i can't say i've been explicitly directed to, quote, blunt or actively stop. on the other hand, it's generally clear to generate knowledge and insight, help us understand that so we can generate better policy. that directive has been fairly explicit, in fairness. >> again, you may agree or disagree, collecting intelligence and acting on it in a coordinated fashion are two different things. >> yes. i also acknowledge our role as intelligence officials. >> we've talked a lot about china, fifias, their involvement in trying to buy companies in the united states. what i think has to be pointed out, too, they are undertaking a significant national investment in artificial intelligence and quantum computing. that is dwarfing anything the
administration is proposing or suggesting. if artificial intelligence has even half of the benefits its promoters claim, it is going to be short of disruptive. quantum computing has the capacity to undercut cryptology as we know it. the experts can correct me if i'm wrong. some of the negativisms that quantum computing can generate based on infinite amounts of water which people have to be wondering. what is our program for ai and quantum computing that will match the chinese? burt decoates, you seem anxious
to answer that. >> we're treading a very narrow line here relative to discussing this in an open meeting. >> i don't want to tread that line, but we do have to recognize that, again, the chinese activity to appropriate or intellectual property is obvious. they're generating they're own intellectual property at a rate that could be disruptive, and we are not matching them. again, this manhattan analogy may be a little out of date, but when we saw the potential effects of a scientific development back in the '40s, we spared no expense so that we would get it first before our opponents. the chinese seem to be making that type of commitment very publicly. billions of dollars that they
said publicly they have a plan and will implement. >> and we will provide that information to the extent we can collect that information. but just like the manhattan project, we don't share steps taken to address it. >> i understand. thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. reed. i hope you'll come back to the closed session this afternoon. i think you'll get some fidelity in that closed session. we're about to wrap up. everybody can look up. there are no more questions so you don't have to lose eye contact with us hoping you're not the guy they're going to ask to answer. you can tell who the newbies are -- >> you're watching all the intel chiefs testify before the senate intel committee. we have heard a number of interesting things about u.s. preparedness for russian meddling in the upcoming election. it is expected to be fierce. that is very clear from what we have heard from all of these heads of different agencies. also, when it comes to the rob
porter scandal, that top aide to president trump who resigned or was pushed out after allegations by his ex-wives that he abused them made very clear by the fbi director that they kept the white house in the loop. not looking good there for the white house as we head into the rest of the day looking for more information from the white house. we'll continue to monitor this. we'll be right back. get money back hilarious. with claim-free rewards. switching to allstate is worth it.
right about that. earlier this morning the president of the united states publicly hounded nato's secretary-general, repeatedly disparaged germany and wondered aloud why america should be responsible for protecting europe against russia. vladimir putin wants donald trump to break from american allies. a few hours ago, that is exactly what he got. wow. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, july 11th. with us, msnbc contributor mike ba ba ba barniccal. >> and david ignatius, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc, kasie hunt and former u.s. ambassador to nato and former state department spokesman nicholas burns, professor of diplomacy and international relations at the harvard kennedy school of government.
great group to start with this morning, and, wow, what a start to the trip. >> what a start to the trip. and -- let's just play the clip. here's donald trump actually doing exactly what vladimir putin would want him to do. good morning. >> in many countries, they owe us a tremendous amount of money from many years back where they're delinquent, as far as i'm concerned, because the united states has had to pay for them. if you go back 10 or 20 years add it all up. it's massive amounts of money that the united states has paid, and stepped up like nobody. this is gone on for decades, by the way. for many presidents. but no other president brought it up like i bring it up. >> the good news is that allies have started to give more to defense. after years, they've started to
add billions to this and defense spending, more in a generation. >> why was that, last year? >> also because of your leadership. because of your carried message. >> they won't write that. >> i think it's very -- sad when germany make as massive oil and gas deal with russia. where you're supposed to be guarding against russia and germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to russia. so we're protecting germany. we're protecting france. we're protecting all of these countries, and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with russia, where they're paying billions of dollars in to the coffers of russia. so we're supposed to protect you against russia, but they're paying billions of dollars to russia, and i think that's very inappropriate, and the former chancellor of germany is the head of the pipeline company that's supplying the gas.
ultimately, germany will have almost 70% of their country controlled by russia with natural gas. so you tell me. is that i mean, i've been compl about this from the time i got in. it should have never been allowed to have happened, but germany is totally controlled by russia. >> i think it's something that nato has to look at. i think it's very inappropriate. you and i agreed that it's inappropriate. >> and the 29 nations, there are sometimes differences, and different views and also some disagreements, and the gas and pipeline from russia to germany is the issue where allies disagree, but the strength is that despite the differences we have always been able to unite around to protect and defend each other, because we understand we are stronger together than apart. the two world wars under cold war and we are stronger together than apart. >> how can you be together when
you know that. >> so this was supposed to be, just a photo op. the president wanted to make sure that he sent the message to vladimir putin while appearing to question energy shipments to russia, that he was actually doing everything he could to disrupt the nato summit from the start. and to also undermine america's alliance with nato. you could see, and mika pointed it out, mike pompeo looking down. as the president continued to badger and attack his hosts there. and in is so -- there is so many -- so many places to start. ronald reagan, during -- ronald reagan during a decade where he did more to bring down the soviet union than anybody would have ever expected continued to trade with the soviet union. donald trump is just, once
again, ignorant of history. ignorant of diplomacy and of the very things that have gotten us to a position where we have a $19 trillion economy and by far the most powerful military and economic engine in the world. on the planet. david ignatius, if you listen to donald trump ramble on and on about what a bad partner nato was, and what a bad partner the eu was, you would, might be fooled in middle america, if you had pictures of donald trump on your wall. you might be fooled into believing that europe does absolutely nothing when it comes to defense. and, of course, after us not wanting germany to re-arm for quite some time, we now have a situation where the european union spends more money on military defense than does
russia. they are an extraordinarily important, strategic ally of the united states of america against vladimir putin and his ambitions after he's invaded two countries in one decade. >> you would have no idea watching the president harang the nato secretary-general that today at this very minute there are nato forces fighting with the united states in afghanistan in a fight that we requested their help in, that they remain part of the coalition that's seeking to defeat isis. our terrorist ally. you would have no idea that that harang was directed at the people on whom we most depend for military support. that footage that you showed at the beginning of the show out to be nut a time capsule, because if people ask some day, how is it that the nato alliance, which
was the centerpiece of american defense strategy for 70 years, began to unravel. you just look at an american president who arrives and the first thing he does a pick a fight with the very secretary-general, which, as you said, joe, the american support team, secretary of state pompeo and our ambassador to nato, kay bailey hutchinson looking on with what seemed to me a kind of silent horror. >> yep. >> at what was happening. what an extraordinary way to begin a summit with your friends and allies. >> well -- hard to imagine. >> it's hard to imagine. it would be if churchill and fdr got together, jon meacham, during world war ii, and fdr was badgering churchill for not spending the exact amount of money on outlays in 1944 and
1945 as the united states. the fact is, that along with russia, great britain was our closest ally, and here, again, we -- europe, again, for those in my family and my friends who support donald trump, for those who have ears to hear, hear. europe spends more money on national defense, on the defense of the eu than does russia. europe spends as much money on the defense of that continent as does china. they are a strong bulwark against russian aggression, and with donald trump going in and hypocritically attacking them, germany, for trading with russia, when all he has done for the past two years is talk about the need to build closer relationships with russia is --
is just so, such a transparent -- i'm sure he thinks he's being clever, but it's a transparent way to carry out vladimir putin's deepest wish. which is, to undermine our alliance with nato. undercut a military strategic alliance that is like a dagger in the heart of putin's expansionist dreams. >> it's -- it's diabolical in that it almost manages to create as much chaos as possible. not really creative chaos, but create chaos, because, if you listen to that, you know, basically we have a president who sounds like the guy at the end of the bar who has a bee in his bonnet and on about his third or fourth beer. >> norm. >> yeah, norm is president. that's kind to norm. >> yeah. >> he's laying this out in a way that his base, many people in his base, will repeat, because he's saying it.
a., like the idea he was sitting there talking to this guy with a funny accent. they're going to love that. he was telling him what all, and yet when you pull back and think about what he was talking about, the entire point of the modern era, as david was saying, as opposed to, really, the 20s, which led to the '30s, was, we engage. >> right. >> and you engage by, with a free flow of people and ideas and goods as much as possible, and what this administration has done is pretty much, it's against the free flow of people and ideas, unless they have them, and it's against the free flow of -- >> so, not norm. more like newman. mike barnicle, go ahead. >> and sitting there watching this extraordinary clip we witnessed, the public
humiliation of the nato secretary-general by the president of the united states, it occurs to me and all of us on the set, how does it occur to you, this was the president of the united states speaking on a global stage intent only on talking about himself and what he felt rather than the common goals that nato has held for 70 years. >> well, mike, that's right, and frankly, it's just infuriating to watch this happen. you cannot imagine any american president all the way back 75 years deciding to become the critic and chief of nato. i mean, it's orwellian. he's making our friends out to be our enemies and treating our enemies like putin as our friends. and he's misrepresenting the facts. there have been four straight years of budget increases by every nato ally. the great majority of them will be at this magical 2% of gross domestic product level by 2024. all of our ability to project
power in the world, in the middle east and afghanistan comes out of the air bases, ramstein, insulak, aviano, the naval bases in italy and spain that the europeans pay us for. $2.5 billion a year to keep our forces there. it would cost us more money to bring the troops home than to keep them in europe. so what is the point of this? it's all about politics, and the president's base. the not about the power of the united states. this incredible alliance that we've built, every president from truman, it's infuriating to see this happen. it's diplomatic malpractice. >> exactly what it is. bring in nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. live in brussels, belgium. kristen what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, mika, we're already starting to get reaction to that extraordinary exchange that you all are talking about. germans defense minister essentially dismissing president trump's claim that it is a captainistic to russia saying, i
think we can cope with it, meaning the criticism. also defending that deal that president trump was lashing out against saying, if we look at the gas pipeline, germany is an independent where energy supply is concerned we diversify, but the main over-arching topic is the summit. we want the summit that sends out the message of unity. of course, president trump sending out the exact opposite message. now, the secretary-general of nato also asked about the president's comments this morning, that extraordinary breakfast that he had with the president, and he said, look, there are going to be disagreements. that's a part of the deal at these international summits. mika, the extraordinary nature of what happened at that breakfast cannot be overstated. these summits are all about tone, all about the optics and on both of those fronts president trump was confrontational, really adding to the tensions here and the concerns that the united states won't be counted on as a part of this alliance, mika. >> and you've been covering these for a long time. how does this compare?
>> reporter: well, you think about the last summit, mika and president trump does not adhere to protocols. the moment he pushed the prime minister of montenegro, a group photo and he wanted to get a better position for the photo. so it's not unusual for him to break with the norms. this is something we deal with every day at the white house. but in the broader context of these summits. again, it's almost unprecedented you would have a public dispute spill out into the public view, and the timing of it is critical. it comes days before he's set to meet with russia's president vladimir putin. you already have nato allies very concerned that he's not going to be tough enough in that meeting with putin nap he. that he's not going to raise the issue of election meddling or invading crimea. a break with international law.
concerns the international community has here. >> kristen welker, hard to believe he wasn't performing for vladimir putin given how kind of overt that was. meanwhile the senate overwhelmingly pass add non-binding motion reaffirms the commitment to the nato alliance. 97-2 vote came hours after the president landed in belgium. the measure was authored by ranking member of the senate armed services committee jack reed. >> the united states participates in nato, because we believe the transatlantic partnership is in the u.s. national security interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection. >> the motion reaffirms the u.s. commitment to nato as a community of shares values including liberty, human rights, democracy and the rule of law. in addition, it calls for the u.s. to pursue and integrated approach to strengthen european defense as part of a long-term strategy that uses all elements of u.s. national power to deter and if necessary defeat russian
aggression. it also reiterates u.s. support for the rules-based international order and expending and enhancing alliances and partnerships. senators rand paul and mike lee were the only two to vote against the motion. >> ah, yeah. wow. okay. kasie hunt, that is the united states senate sending a strong message, as strong a message as possible to our nato allies as well as to vladimir putin. talking about russian aggression in that language, and also, you know, some of the republican senators that went over and were criticized for going over to russia actually, if you look at what was said in those meetings, there was confrontation about the russians interfering, meddling in our 2016 election. it seems the senate, at least, and some republicans in the senate, at least, is except for mike lee and rand paul, think it's a good idea to stand
shoulder-to-shoulder with our european allies and speak out against russian aggression. >> reporter: joe, this reads to me like an attempt by the u.s. senate, republicans and democrats alike, to send a message to our nato allies that says, please, try not to worry so much. we promise we're going to keep the lights on for you. and that when we are, we have moved past this era, this is still something important to us. i think -- there were so many republican whose didn't want trump to get elected in the first place. they thought there would be a lot of problems and issues. i don't think any of them ever dreamed that it would be a serious question to ask, mitch mcconnell got the question yesterday. do you think this president will pull us out of nato? the house that we built. this is the western world that the united states of america built after the cold war, and it's been the bedrock for, you know, all of our foreign policy, but particularly on the republican side. reagan and the end of the cord war.
the fact the vote happened at all, jack reed, a democrat. gave it to him, his counterpart obviously on the armed services committee, john mccain not here in washington, still battling brain cancer, but that is just an incredible signal and it comes from the top down. >> jon meacham, yes, it was the house that we built, nato. here's theresa may arriving. she has several things on her mind. one, of course, is the frail nature of her coalition in parliament with her shaggy haired foreign minister resigning a few days ago. also, of course, though, more importantly in our mind than meeting with donald trump is what every man, woman and child in england is thinking about today, and that is the 2:00 clash against croatia to get to the finals of the world cup, and if you think that i am being glib, you do not understand just what today's match means.
and also, of course, belgium in a state of warning today after their loss to france yesterday. but kasie hunt talked about nato being the house that we built. and, again, the ignorance of donald trump and the ignorance of those who believe that he's somehow showing those europeans. >> hmm. >> uh-huh. >> showing them what real leadership is about, again only reveals an ignorance that the house that america built in europe, we built for our own selfish interest. we built to protect our military troops, to stop a third european world war from occurring in 30 years. we did it to build strong trade partners, and what happened? we built strong trade partners.
we kept germany. we kept italy. we kept france. we kept a lot of countries out of stalin's grasp after world war ii. this along with the truman doctrine -- the marshall plan, one of america's greatest investments ever. forget about the niceties of democracy and freedom. >> yeah. >> we stand for that. just cold, hard cash. so when donald trump's playing businessman over there, he's being a fool and tearing down the foundation of america's $19 trillion economy. >> yeah. when fdr was dictating the for freedom speech, 1941. freedom from want, from fear -- he was listing, he said, we must fight to guarantee those freedoms everywhere in the world. everywhere in the world. everywhere in the world. he was dictating this, and harry
hopkins, his great adviser said, you know, mr. president i wouldn't say everywhere in the world, americans don't give a damn about java. he came back at him, the world is getting so small we're going to have to care about java. we're going to have to care about berlin. churchill said in harvard, 1943, the price of greats in is responsibility. america cannot rise to be the most significant force in global events and not have the long arm of history reach out across the oceans. and so it's entirely in our self-interest. the creation of nato, in part, was, has led to an era where we fought a terrible cold war and we have fought elective hot cwas as part of the cold war but not a global struggle. finally, it's been 30 years, george herbert walker bush thinks the most important he
did, bring stability to europe, to stand as a defense of the west, and created a remarkable trading partner. >> well, we, everyone stay with us. we have much more ahead this morning with this esteemed panel on the nato summit as we build up to the class photo next hour, which should be interesting, and david ignatius -- >> i wonder if these going to -- >> push anyone? >> be a buffoon and bush anyone this year? >> apparently that would be the least offensive thing that would happen there. david ignatius explains his take on why donald trump is so hostile to american allies. he resents them, and their success. interesting. we'll read from that new column just ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
we've seen over the past 18, 19 months, to not look at donald trump as doing either subconsciously or maybe he's just bumbling around, like mr. magoo, but he is doing the very thing that vladimir putin would want a western leader to do more than anything else, and that is to undermine nato. he could not be doing putin's bidding more effectively if he were an active agent of vladimir putin and the kgb. >> joe, for now i'm going to leave that issue to robert mueller, the special counsel. >> so, well, let me ask you this -- what does vladimir putin fear? what has vladimir putin feared over the past 18, 19 years more
than anything else? >> so putin fears and resents a strong american-led alliance in nato that he feels has gone right up to russia's border, has tried to draw in these newly merging countries that were part of a society empire. countries that bitterly resented russia's tutelage and now have moved towards nato for security. he resents it to some extent he fears it. he fears that that same desire for something different will affect his own population. it is a dream come true for vladimir putin, to have an american president arrive on the ground in brussels and the first thing, go a breakfast and harang the nato secretary-general and talk about germany, our most important ally in europe, as a captive of russia. i mean, it's just insulting language. it's -- it seeks to humiliate the people that he's dealing
with. i can only think that putin sits back in moscow, well, i'll tell what you people said to me in russia last summer when i was there. they said, we watch the american led liberal international order collapsing and we think that's good, but we don't really understand what you're doing to yourselves. we don't understand why this is being taken apart, but we're happy. i think they are happy, but, you know, people will look back, historianless look back and wonder how on earth was this instrument of american power and wealth undermined so systematically by a president who really had so little knowledge about foreign policy. >> and, mike, historians will look back at this moment and also wonder why more people were not asking aggressively and not with guarded words, but aggressively asking what does
vladimir putin have on donald trump? >> yeah. >> because there is -- we were talking about it before. there is no other explanation. >> that was a performance for putin. >> -- for an american commander in chief. >> yeah. >> -- to actively work to undermine america's most important, most strategic, most vital alliance that it has in the entire face of the earth. the only country this helps is vladimir putin's russia. >> well, history will have a long list of questions that will have to be answered. that's going to be among them, and another question that's going to be among them is, why was there such silence from members of the united states senate? or the united states congress about what is occurring right now? and nick burns, you're a man of the world. form 0er ambassador to nato. state department employee. tell us your view, your
concerns, perhaps, about what has happened when you look at what has happened, a withdrawal from tpp by this president. virtually seedi ingcreeding the to the chinese, latin america, africa, the middle east, intent on becoming a bigger world power than they already are, virtually one foot out the door on nato, the collapse of nato after 70 years, perhaps could happen. give us your view, your concerns about what is happening right now to our position in the world, and the relative silence as we just spoke of from members of the united states senate about this. >> mike, i think it's clear now, 18 months in to this presidency, that the president is abdicating american leadership. in the following way -- he's dismantling our alliances and downgrading them. that's been the power base for the united states for 75 years.
he's dismantled the trading system that brought us this unprecedented prosperity, and is replacing it with nothing. he's just tearing down. and i just -- third, i've been in europe. four countries in the last couple of weeks. the existential battle right now in europe is between the small d. democratic governments and the right wing democratic populists that have taken over the governments of hungary and poland and are inside the government of italy and the europeans are convinced that trump's siding with the authoritarian figures because trump has been praising them privately and publicly, the authoritarian leaders. he's gone after angela merkel. there they is on the screen, big time a vicious twitter attack designed to bring her down. he's been extremely critical of the western european democracies. you can't imagine why an american president would act this way. i think it's a radical revolution, if you add in leaving the iran deal, leaving the paris climate change deal. we had a power base as the most
influential country in the world. he only sees trade imbalance and does credit our allies with anything else. we're at a critical moment. we do need political leaders to speak out about this, because i can't believe that members of the senate and house think this is all a good idea. >> david, do you have any sense that -- nick burns just mentioned, angela merkel and the president going after her constantly, continually, do you have any sense of the root of this, clearly, anger he has towards angela merkel? >> it's one of the biggest mysteries, mike. angela merkel is really the leader of europe today. does he resent her strength? does he resent her, because she had a close relationship with barack obama? his predecessor? >> ah. >> except i see him as anything obama touched trump wants to get rid of. does he -- i wrote this morning, we'll talk about this maybe, but trump has this odd scarred,
wounded attitude of somebody who went through terrible financial trouble, towards people who were successful and prosperous. the germans of one of the world's greatest economic success stories. does he resent that? but he has been going very directly at her with political attacks, saying that the german people are turning against her. he's doing a little bit of that this week with theresa may, the british prime minister, in effect siding with boris johnson who just walked out of her cabinet in an -- american presidents don't do this. i mean, does donald trump, he makes us forget how unusual this sort of thing is, but as to the resentment of germany, that's the thing that's really undoing nato, because germany's at the center of nato, and it seems very deliberate, because he does it over and over again. to call germany a captive of russia. >> yeah. >> it's the most inflammatory language i can imagine.
>> david, read from your latest op-ed from the "washington post," trump's neediness is at the core of his diplomacy. you write, trump is the neediest person that the tycoon that vaulted to the top of the world. sees himself as chief executive not of a thriving enterprise but of one that has nearly been run into the ground by his predecessors. rather than warmly embracing longtime partners in europe he resents them and their success. he picks needless fights and tries to humiliate people that he feels have slighted him. this scarred, prickly trump is looking for new friends and investors. it's almost as if he's ready to fold what he sees as a losing hand and draw a fresh set of cards, ones bearing the faces of north korea's kim jong-un, china's xi, jinping and russia's vladimir putin, and that is --
wow n wow. that just matching exactly everything we have seen in trump's personality since we first met him, actually. >> well, you two know him and the world he comes from. i just have been struck recently that this is not the abul yaian donald trump, the part of a comeback donald trump, went through bankruptcy. got the scars, he's prickly. as i said in the column, it's almost as if he doesn't like the hand of cards he's got so he's laying them down and going to draw these new ones. one has a big vladimir putin face on it, and it's just -- it's mighty weird to see him put the angela merkel card down and reach towards the stack for putin. i don't get that. >> it's pretty incredible stuff. jon meacham? >> says a lot of practiced psychiatry without a license, a
theory for you to treect it. what's the role of misogyny? does merkel remind him of hillary? does that help explain the theresa may issue? he does not have a particularly healthy relationship, it seems, with a lot of strong women. what do you think? >> you know, i -- i'm going to be careful about -- about venturing towards the couch, but i do think that we see in donald trump an affinity for the big guy. you know? the guy who's like donald trump. there's something about him and kim jong-un as they're walking past the furled north korea and american flags and you think -- there's something similar in these two. you see that when he's with xi jinping. i'm sure we'll see it with vladimir putin. he keeps saying over and over gn i respect vladimir putin. he said about boris johnson a rough, tough unpredictable
british politician. he's a friend of mine. sort of like, he's one of the guys. so, you know, theresa may, angela merkel are not one of the guys. they're not in this circle he regards as friendly. beyond that, i'm not -- i wouldn't be, dare to guess. >> all right. ambassador burns, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we'll be very, very hopeful to talk to you again as this plays out. coming up, when it comes to the president's trade war, what's another $200 billion? turns out a lot. at least for the american workers bearing the brunt of it. we'll talk about the new tariffs the white house is eyeing against china. we'll be right back. metastatic breast cancer is relentless,
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necessary countermeasures. the latest round of proposed tariffs would deepen the trade war between the u.s. and china and include everything from fish to luggage. senate finance chairman orrin hatch called the new tariffs reckless and not a targeted approach in a statement, and senator jeff flake told reporters he has reached an agreement with gop leadership to get a non-binding vote to instruct negotiators on a spending bill to give congress more authority over the president's ability to implement tariffs for national security reasons. the arizona senator says he expects a vote today. kasie what do we expect on capitol hill? given everything. >> reporter: the -- the fundamentals of the republican party as many of these senators have known it for decades are being day in and day out challenged. it seems as though we are finally starting to see some concrete action on the floor of the senate, but you have to remember that this is basically
the least intense version of what they could do. a non-binding vote to instruct people to put an amendment in a spending bill, yes, it does send a symbolic signal and we shouldn't underestimate the previous lack of willingness to do even that, but this is not something that is actually going to make a material difference. it doesn't seem at this point to the president's power to do this, and free trade and tariffs on the one hand and nato and our global alliances on the other have been two bedrock principles of the republican party until president trump, and the restructuring that is going to have to go on here, i'm just not sure where these politicians go. do they have a home anymore? they feel the party is the party of trump, they have to go along with that because he's so popular with his voters, but such disagreement on what are such fundamental and important issues. >> the thing is, though, jon meacham, again, i've always been
shocked by politicians in washington who act like the reality they're living in today will forever be the reality. donald trump will leave office at some point, and when he does leave office, these republicans are going to have a hell of a lot to answer for. i remember during george bush's second term criticizing his foreign policy and criticizing his deficit spending, and the massive debts he was racking up, and conservatives were attacking me. suggesting i wasn't sufficiently conservative, two, three years later. suddenly bush leaves town, and they have to defend all the things -- so that's why barack obama got elected president and there were 59 democrats elected to the united states senate. history moves on. donald trump will move on. all of this will be mud on their face they will have to deal with for a very long time. >> yeah. and they're all looking at --
not all of them, particularly in the south, most, red states are looking at numbers that are boggling their minds. which is an extraordinarily high level of approval rating for the president in the republican party itself. and so they're trapped between this momentary fever that i think the country -- many parts of the country and certainly many parts of the -- i hate to say the republican party. because it's especially been captured by trump and has become, a wholly owned subsidiary at this point, but it take as certain amount of imagination. it takes a lot of courage, to do what you're talking about. which is to transcend the reality of that number and to think, how am i going to be judged in five years, ten years, 20 years? as opposed to this week? you have to do that, because the people we talk about are the one whose do that. >> but here's the thing. the thing that's frustrated me
with republicans for the past several years. it's not that hard. i've told this story before of -- of being attacked for cutting medicare. the rate of growth in medicare, and i was getting attacked by the democratic opponent, and it was a lose-lose issue in 1996. but i got so angry at the demagoguery, because the medicare trustee said we had do it. what it did? did made the entire campaign a referendum on why we had to cut the rate of increase on medicare to save medicare. >> uh-huh. >> guess what happened? glen bolger with public opinion strategies called me before the election and told me i had the highest approval rating among senior voters than he had ever seen across america. because i was great now. because i told them the truth.
1995, at the height of the gingrich revolution. >> yeah. >> i was in a town hall meeting where people were screaming and yelling about common law marriage between gay men in vermont. this is something where i could have thrown red meat out and we -- we would have been devoured. i said, wait a second. why do we care about what gay men are doing in vermont? we don't want to tell them what to do in vermont any more than we want them to tell us what to do in northwest florida. >> right. >> people started clapping. you can move voters. you don't have to run scared, but you've got to take it on. right? >> harry troop han the best line about this. which is -- demagogues kel -- >> an easy one.demagogues -- yo thinking about truman, weren't you? >> i was. >> truman said demagogues tell lies again and again and people
leave them, were ut if you tell the truth again and again people will go along with you. i've said this before. to go to your point. people need to think about the oil portrait test. what are we going to think when we look at their all like that because they can't imagine an idea where we're not gazing at their portrait. you don't want to be joe mccarthy. still ahead, we know the president's stance on nato. former secretary of homeland security michael chertoff disagrees with his take, among other people. plus, nbc's andrea mitchell. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪
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with nato. and again jon meacham, an alliance that which begun in the rubble of the second world war in 20 years and an alliance that has held russia in check and kept them out of western europe since 1947. >> the great wise man able harryman said after the war all americans wanted to do was come home and drink coke, but harry truman and enough people around him realized that the road to global war had come through isolationism. and so there was a determined attempt to re-engage the world, to remain engaged in it so that we would not retreat behind fortress america, we would not, to coin a phrase, put america first, which had been the great phrase of the isolation
organization of the 1930s. we would remain engaged, and therefore isolationism would not return. this is -- and it was politically difficult, the marshall plan because truman knew it couldn't be called the truman plan because he wasn't popular. imagine the incumbent doing that. >> there's a lot of symbolism going on here, even the way the president entered this nato headquarters. he took a separate entrance. all the other world leaders taking the red carpet. really actually physically separating himself from our allies but also in the room at the meeting that we saw with the head of nato, secretary general, you could see really awkward body language with mike pompeo and john kelly at the end of the table. >> mike pompeo looking down. >> looking like they're enduring a horror show. anybody who has a sense of how difficult, important and valuable these strategic
alliances are, it is a pretty staggering, astonishing set of developments in the course of just a few minutes with this president in front of the cameras lord knows what happens when the cameraings were off, join the conversation, former undersecretary of state, host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell and new york times washington bureau chief elizabeth newmiller. good to have you all on board. david ignatius is still with us as well. >> rick, there are people who don't want us to draw historical parallels, but history does rhyme. the costs -- you have jon meacham talking about our need to be engaged after world war ii, the costs for an american first policy and by the way the raising of tariffs across the globe, in the 1920s, had such destructive effects in the 1930s that led to the greatest
depression in american history as well as the deadliest war other than our own civil war. >> yes. john said it well. it's a scary prospect. there was another wise man who once said the chief deliverable of the nato summit is cohesion. and what donald trump has in one fell swoop violated that this morning. it's a very, very scary prospect. to go back to what david was saying, vladimir putin's great goal is not only to disrupt nato but particularly to disrupt the relationship between germany and the united states. this is a dream come true for him. i mean, vladimir putin could have scripted donald trump's -- your father would be livid. >> this is exactly, mike barnacle, this is exactly what vladimir putin has sought since he's been in power over the past two decades. >> yeah. >> this is his dream. >> he has it. >> he has it. >> dream fulfilled.
he has it at many levels. one of the things that occurs to i think all of us here watching the initial tirade earlier today with the president and secretary general nato is the spew of facts coming from the president. we haven't obviously had time to ascertain whether they're valid or not, but one of the things we can do is nail down his constant tirade about nato nations not paying up. >> right. >> and they do. and the 2% goal, that's a goal, it's not supposed to be today. it's a goal set for 2026, but the facts coming from the president of the united states are seemingly always screwed. >> it is certainly true that american presidents and particularly american defense secretaries have gone to nato and complained that nato does not -- nato countries in europe do not contribute up to 2%. i can remember robert gates doing this and setting off
alarms in europe. he was the defense secretary, not the president. but for the president to do this in front of the nato secretary general who had gone around asking countries for more money and had been fairly successful is germany is now going to contribute up to 1.5% is just bewildering why he chose now to do it. i think perhaps he felt it was playing to a domestic audience in the united states. he sounded very egrieved talking about how the taxpayers, american taxpayers, have to do this and nato countries aren't paying their fair share. and i also think -- i do think there's a certain amount of politics in grievance here. trump knows certainly how unpopular he is in europe and how unpopular he is with the other world leaders and certainly does not have a good relationship with angela merkel. do not discount just this sort of impulsive nature of this and the anger he brings to this meeting. >> lots to play for you,
president trump, fulfilling putin's dream. take a look. >> i think it's very sad when germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with russia where you're supposed to be guarding against russia and germany and goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to russia. so we're protecting germany. we're protecting france. we're protecting all of these countries and then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with russia where they're paying billions of dollars into the coughers of russia. so we're supposed to protect you against russia but they're paying billions of dollars to russia. i think that's very inappropriate and the former chancellor of germany is the head of the pipeline company that's supplying the gas. it's ultimately germany will have almost 70% of their country controlled by russia with natural gas. so you tell me, is that
appropriate? i mean, i've been complaining about this from the time i got in there. should have never been allowed to happen, but germany is totally controlled by russia. >> i think it's something that nato has to look at. i think it's very inappropriate. you and i agreed that it's inappropriate. >> 29 nations and there are sometimes differences and different views and also some disagreements and gas pipeline from russia to germany is only issue allies disagree. but the strength despite these differences we have always been able to unit around our -- protect and defend each other. we are stronger together than apart. three world wars and cold war show we're stronger together than apart. >> how can you be together when you're getting your energy from the person you want protection against? >> because we understand when we stand together also dealing with
russia, we are stronger. i think what we have seen -- >> no, you're just making russia richer. you're not dealing with russia. you're making russia richer. >> during the cold war, nato allies were trading with russia and there had been disagreements about what kind of trade arrangements -- >> i think trade is wonderful. i think energy is a whole different story. i think energy is a much different story than normal trade. and you have a country like poland that won't accept the gas. you take a look at some of the countries, they won't accept it because they don't want to be captive to russia. germany, as far as i'm concerned is captive to russia because it's getting so much of its energy from russia. we're supposed to protect germany, but getting their energy from russia. explain that. you know that. >> oh. andrea mitchell, i'm going to let you choose where you want to begin with your analysis if you can put it into words.
>> it is so shocking. my first nato summit was to bond then the capital of germany with ronald reagan in 1982 and europe was aflame with attacks from the left wing against the deployment, the collective deployment of intermediate range missiles and they all stood together, reagan leading the way, and to see an american president there with his secretary of state speechless, the u.s. ambassador to nato, very strong and smart woman, former texas senator who is just speechless, obviously her commander in chief, her leader is sitting there and deriding germany. and john kelly, a retired general, watching this. it's just absolutely stoopfying that he would say germany is controlled as captive to russia and that would be his opening gam butt.
he is playing to this politic of grievance as he anticipates protests against him in london. he has to stay out of london because it's risky politically and perhaps for other reasons so he'll be going to windsor pal los a las and other places. his facts are wrong. as you all have been pointing out. and his politics are wrong. and it is just a disgrace for the united states to open the nato meeting like this. >> yeah. and david ignatius, again, it's important for those that are just joining, it's important for donald trump supporters, it's important for all americans to understand, it's important for people working in the trump white house to understand, actually ignorant of the facts that europe has a bigger defense budget than russia. europe as as big defense budget as china. europe has been a bastien against soviet aggression since
1947 and against putin's aggression since the turn of the century. and west germans always reminded us when ever we had problems from 1947 to 1989, they say we are your most loyal and faithful children. and of course we do what you tell us to do. we are standing at the gates of your berlin wall and we are your allies ready and waiting. donald trump, of course, doesn't remember that because he doesn't follow history. but that is the case. germany has been our most steadfast ally against russia since 1947. >> germany is the bedrock of this alliance that has been the centerpiece of american strategy for dealing with russia. we have to remember that germany
and other european countries have supported the sanctions that the u.s. proposed after russia invaded crimea, even though those sanctions cost the europeans, especially the germans a lot in terms of things they could sell, deals they could make, they stood by that policy partly because we asked them to and partly because they knew that russia potentially threatened them. when i watched these pictures of donald trump, the record arrive at that breakfast, i think back two weeks ago to all of the nato officials including the young stoltenberg and their prop rations, is there some way we can make it work out so we can have a good nato summit, so we can talk about all the good things we're doing? in fact, they are doing a lot of good things. they're put more troops east as trip wires to potentially challenge the russians if they were ever to move. they're continuing to support u.s. operations in afghanistan.
there's discussion of training troops in iraq to stabilize iraq. all these things that they had lined up as potential achievements president arrives, boom, it's like he knocked over a whole set of blocks. you can only imagine what stoltenberg, what our nato ambassador were thinking as they sat next to the president as he went through this. just one final point, we used this phrase before, but the world we grew up in was well described by one of the creators of nato and these great institutions. he said he was present at the creation. and watching this morning's footage, i think we all wondered whether we were present at the destruction, at the moment at which this began to come apart. >> you know, that's a critical question that david just raised. jon meacham, also two weeks ago, david was talking about two week ago, two weeks ago june 24th, it was the anniversary of the start of the berlin air lift.
and you look at what's happening today and you wonder, how much of your history has been lost because of our inadequacy here in teaching our own history to our children, how much of history is lost clearly among members of the united states senate who have no seemingly no frame of reference to what this country stands for, has stood for through generations and now here we are today and as david pointed out, perhaps with the president of the united states who has one foot out the door on leaving nato. >> yeah. if you don't know how we got here, it's very hard to understand what you value and what you don't value. we have a president of the united states who is entirely intuitive. he is like an open synaps. you could sort of hear in that
soliloquy this morning he at least opened a briefing book. so he had sort -- >> he didn't know who gar hard stroder was until he got into the briefing book. i promise. >> might be one of the world cup people. >> yeah. >> but so -- >> he thought -- >> he plays piano. >> he thought he was a little kid who played the piano. >> that's right. but i think that because he is a populist, open synaps, i'm sure against what he said will play extremely well for a lot of people. and because it kind of makes sense, right? yeah, they're getting gas from there. and that's the danger of this. so exactly to mike's point, if you don't put the frame on it, if you don't explain that this is how we prosper, we're in
trouble. >> but rick, we've talked about -- mr. undersecretary, we've talked about the trump side of this equation. we haven't talked about the democratic side of this equation. i'm so glad that we're a democracy and we're not a parliamentary system, but we need a leader of the opposition, be that leader a conservative or a moderate or a liberal to stand up and not defend europe's interests but defend america's interest and to say, it subpoena against america's interest, it is against your interest, it is against your family's interest, it is against your pocketbook's best interests to continue having a president that tears apart our most valuable military allies, our most important trading partners, the bull works against russian aggression.
this is an argument that would be so easy to make. and yet where are the democrats? i guarantee you this, if george w. bush had run against donald trump in 2016, he would have cut him to pieces in the first debate. but he is just laughing at him and mocking him. barack obama would have done the same. bill clinton would have wiped the floor with him. where is the democratic leader that can do that? where is the republican leader that can do that? >> it's a shame. there's a democratic leader who did it. he said he would pay any price, bear any burden to defend liberty around the world. that was john f. kennedy in his inaugural address. this is a core, core value that these leaders cannot embrace. it's very sad. i want to go back to one moment of history here. one of my last trips with the state department was to berlin. and it was during that time that mrs. merkel gave the speech
where she said the reason i've opened my arms to refugees, to these syrian refugees is because when i was a little girl during the berlin air lift in east berlin, i watched american planes come over and they had these tiny little parachutes of candy and food that came down to me. that taught me how nations can be generous. america does bear any burden historically. what trump doesn't understand is that we're not being taken. we're the generous nation that will actually give more to assure security, to assure peace. that's what a democrat has to say. that's what the republicans have to say. i just can't imagine there aren't people who are speaking out like we're speaking out now about trump disrupting what has been the greatest military alliance in the history of the world, that has kept the peace and keep prosperity for 75 years? >> and elizabeth, this post war world that so many brilliant people helped cobble together in 1945, '46, '47, it's not only
kept america safe and free and prosperous so we have the largest economy on the planet and it has been growing steadily since 1945, it's also put us in a position where we could have fed and freed more people across this planet than any other country. again, we have been a beacon to people like angela merkel, as a child, behind the berlin wall. we have been a beacon, we were beacon to dissidence in soviet russia. we have been a beacon to people across the world. and now it seems that we're about building walls and blowing up bridges. >> i just wanted to remind people that after 9/11, the nato countries invoked article 5, which was very big deal. article 5, as you know, attack against one nato countries is an attack against all. it's a very emotional moment at the white house when that
happened. that was not envisioned. article 5 was never envisioned to be invoked in that way. as we saw in afghanistan, nato countries joined in that defense with the united states. now, that was a long war. there was a lot of argument with nato countries about how much they were contributing over time, but that was an important moment for the nato alliance we shouldn't forget. and i think the worst case scenario for nato now is to see what happens with the meeting between trump and vladimir putin and helsinki. and if that goes well after what has happened in brussels, that will be something. >> wow. >> it is really -- i'm trying to think of what my father would say at this point. i think he would -- >> andrea, you covered dr. ber zin ski -- >> you know my parents and you know my father's strategic thinking. i'm scared to even try and put
into words what his analysis of this would be. there was -- you know what, a potential in this meeting and a lot of opportunity. my brother ian wrote a piece for the atlantic council on what positive could have come out of this. how do we describe the negatives here? >> it's really hard to describe. i was just thinking while you were talking before you mentioned it about what your father would be saying at this point and especially looking forward to the meeting with vladimir putin. i'm going to be covering that for you all in helsinki on monday morning. we'll all be together again. and it's all going to be happening right during these hours where he's going to be having a one-on-one meeting without note takers, without advisers. but actually given the role that john bolton and other advisers have played, i'm not sure there being there would make any difference. that role of national security
adviser which your father occupied in the white house is so critical. now we understand whi h.r. mcmaster was fired because he could not have remained silent while this was going on. there is no one around this president who is willing to speak up to him. and that is what's so shocking. i really worry about defense secretary mattis who is in brussels. >> i do, too. >> he must just be gagging on his breath. >> looking at angela merkel's transcription here, the translation to the comments that she made just moments ago, i've experienced myself a part of germany controlled by the soviet union and very happy today that we are united in freedom as the federal republic of germany and can thus say we can determine our own policies and make our own decisions and that's very good. >> you know, joe, let me ask you something, i am constantly and
continually bewildered by the president of the united states. we just saw a group of children being rescued from a cave in thailand. the world was thrilled to see it. and here in america, we are taking children from their parents. >> yep. let's not forget the separation policy. >> should we no longer recognize their mothers when put together with them. we have a country where the president of the united states is separating himself from the rest of the world seemingly. where are the people in public life who stand up and ask the question, whose country is this? is it donald trump's or is it our's? >> well, we talked about history and now historians will remember this moment. it's hard, mike, every time something like this happens, it's hard to not turn to members of donald trump's own party,
again, trump a lifelong democrat, became a republican when he figured out racerism, birtherism in 2011 would help him win the nomination. where are they? i know they had a vote in the senate. fantastic. but i'll tell you if i were there, i would be rounding up a group of people, we would go down to the white house or we would give a press conference as republicans in front of the capital defending nato and calling out the president for his comments. do you know how hard that is? it's not hard at all. and do you know what happens in your district, i found it helps you in your district. this is what i don't understand about these cowards. every time i spoke out against my own leadership or against democratic leadership, my poll
numbers went up because people want somebody who speaks their mind. they want somebody who is independent. they want somebody who is not scared. these people are cowards. >> so now we're at the point where they would rather lose the country than lose their own election. >> they are more concerned about what happens this fall than they are with what's happening with what's happening with an alliance, again, that has made america the strongest, the most powerful, the most free country on the planet. forget the fact that we have fed and freed more people than any country in the history of the world. let's just be selfish about this. we have a $19 trillion economy. the post war period has been defined as one. the american century.
not the luxembourg century or the french century. because of what we have done in setting up this system, this post war system, historians called this the american century. and you know what, despite our political problems, still is, we still are the most powerful country in the world militarily by tenfold, 20 fold. we're still the most powerful economy in the world. and by the way, we were the day barack obama left office. we were the day george w. bush left office. we were the day bill clinton left office. so why blow this apart unless you are trying to help vladimir putin? >> to go to something mike just said, donald trump is the most vivid manifestation of the least
attractive characteristics in the national character. we haven't been captured by donald trump. we have had our worst instincts affirmed, exacerbated and put in front of the world. i think to suggest that somehow or another he has hijacked the country, lets the rest of us off the hook because right now the kind of courage you're talking about is required not simply of people who are in elective office but all of us. it's why conversations like this matter. jefferson said men should be participatories in congress not only in congress or elections but everyday. the only way to get through this hour of crisis, it is a crisis in the classic sense we know at the end of it whether the patient lives or dice, crisis is supposed to be that important, life or death matter, health crisis, health moment, the
country has fully the capacity to do the wrong thing. the wondrous thing about the country is that at least 51% of the time when we have actually let those better angels win, we have opened the arms, we have dropped berlin, we used the berlin air lift, we have colin powell saying we have gone around the world protecting our power, the only thing we asked for is the ground to bury our dead. >> and elizabeth, donald trump is succeeding in undermining the international american order because there is nobody in his own party pushing back at him. there's nobody in his cabinet pushing back at him. i saw a video a couple days ago of a woman who put on a puerto rico shirt and was abused, followed around by a racist while a cop just sat there and did nothing.
that's what the republican party has done. it would be very easy to intercede and step in and stop this. the republicans just choose to do so. >> i saw bob corker said some things yesterday about nato and they did pass a resolutions yesterday, i believe, firming support for nato. i also want to address jon meacham when he talked about our better angels and talk about this is not the separation of families. but i would like to note that because of the courts who says that the judge out in west coast says that the trump administration can't hold families for more than 20 days and because of the pressure from the public and the president's executive order, what we have now with our immigration crisis is that families are being -- we're back to catch and release under the obama administration. so i think if the things work in the country, that there is a system of checks and balances, however imperfect, families are
not being separated, they're being kept together for 20 days and being given court dates and being released into the country. whether you want that or not, we're back to what the obama administration considered a somewhat more humane policy. the bottom line is some ways the things are working in the country the way their supposed to. >> we'll see. some families are dysfunctional. we'll see what happens with donald trump. >> that's very true. >> andrea mitchell, two of my favorite columns in the age of trump, he was no fan of donald trump, one ended with the words the system lives. and in that column, he talked about all the things that donald trump did, all the breaches of constitutional norms that he practiced daily. and then talked about the four or five institutions, the press
or congress or the bureaucracy that pushed back hard, and that has happened for the most part. donald trump has been held in check. but as you know better than anybody in your year's covering presidents and foreign policy, a commander in chief is given such wide latitude that the damage that he can cause on the international stage is obviously far greater. >> indeed. and we don't have those checks and ambulanbalances in a real s. over time in elections you do. that's why helsinki and putin will be so fraught with high risk, especially because of the way the president launched his opening salvo at nato. we could have predicted it because of the way he left when he was heading to air force base yesterday. his departure remarks were so
aggressive against nato. one thought perhaps on the plane he might have read the briefing and been briefed. perhaps somebody could have talked to him. but instead, i think he got ramped up. this opening was tactical. there's no question. that he was beating up on stoelten berg in a deliberate way. he was playing to the camera and he knew what he was doing. i can only think that he was setting on a trajectory that we're going to see throughout this meeting in brussels. and it's only going to further soil his like. he is determined to blow up an alliance as america created as you pointed out there at the creation. we are now witnessing what could be the destruction. i have to think that the alliance and that history is
stronger and more durable as our friend charles wrote. >> david, i don't say this dispairagingly. you've been around a long time. >> boy, a long time. by the way, mike, david has been around long enough to remember -- >> come on -- >> when washington had a baseball team that was a contender. >> yeah, that was a long time ago, too. >> boy, we love the senators. >> seriously, david, have you ever seen anything like this? >> i never have seen a moment like this in which president of the united states deliberately sets out to undermine the alliance the united states needs. i never have seen it. i never could have imagined it. donald trump is a human wrecking ball. and he likes doing this. he thinks this is success. and we have to say that he is now as president in 18 months
succeeded in many of his foreign policy goals of undoing the foreign policy achievements that were built up over so many years and decades. and he will move into the next phase now as he meets with russian leader vladimir putin and tries to come up with a new structure for the u.s./russia relationship. it's a dangerous time. i was reading yesterday trump's inaugural speech. and you go back to that speech. it's not as if this has been sneaking up on us. it's been coming right at us. he said in that speech, you know, american carnage, we're a mess, everything is going wrong in this country. and people have been taking advantage of us and stealing our money and making us pay for the defense. i'm going to change all that. he couldn't have been clearer when he came into office and he
is now accomplishing those things one by one. and as joe said earlier, we're a democracy. people get a chance to speak up and say, no, that's not the way i want our country to go. i don't want us to trade in alliance with germany for an alliance with authoritarian russia. people get to make that choice. and we need to keep talking about the way the choices appear. but it's not as if this is a surprise or something that snuck up from behind. he's been saying he's going to do this and now he's done it. >> you're watching the official handshakes at the nato summit in brussels, belgium. and these official moments precede the family photo that will happen in a short time. of course we saw the last one at the last summit and it was absolutely fascinating with i believe the president shoving the leader of montenegro to the side. today has already proved to be
incredibly packed with drama and astonishing developments. we're told president trump will be coming out to shake the hand of the u.n. secretary general any moment now. >> nato. >> nato secretary general, excuse me. and that is, of course, if he chooses to stay with the program. he did not stay with the program in terms of his entrance. he chose not to walk the red carpet and came in a different entrance, perhaps symbolically separating himself from the allies. >> so, rick, we saw angela merkel walk across the stage. we've seen theresa may. we saw her when she entered. and there is, of course, as a backdrop of donald trump's populism and his approach to sort of the recking of the international order that this country helped build since 1945.
there are other countries that when you talk about poland, whether you talk about bulgaria, whether you talk about austria, other countries in central europe and eastern europe, who are also going through some fairly turbulent times while angela merkel and theresa may right now are struggling to keep their coalitions in power. >> and by the way, trump is single handedly trying to unravel theresa may's government. the insane thing he said about boris johnson, he really, really likes me. i'm a good friend of his. i want to go back to what you were saying before, joe, about are we returning to this period of isolationism in the '20s and '30s that americans didn't realize we were tied to tres of the world. we were much more isolated in the '20s and 30s than we are
now. our entire economy is bound to the rest of the world. unfortunately donald trump voters don't quite understand that. the fact that donald trump was attacking -- speaking of germany, speaking of bmw. >> in south carolina. >> largest plant in the world is in spartanburg, south carolina. those american workers were not happy there. >> that shows a profound ignorance of what you know what's on the ground because any southerner knows that bmw has led to the renaissance of south carolina since carol campable. >> i drove by on sunday the volkswagen plant in chattanooga, tennessee, 5, 6,000 jobs brought there by a young mayor named bob corker, sort of a successor to lamar and he brought in nissan.
north american headquarters of nissan is about 10 miles from my house in nashville. it's a global economy. the fact that we have to say this is embarrassing. fdr said that every word that comes to the air, every ship that sails at sea does shape the american future. and it was true in 1940, '41. it's even more true now because of the pace of it and the integrated nature of our economic lives. but here we are watching this sound of music production. >> here we go with president trump now. >> walking across the blue carpet to shake the hand of the nato secretary general. >> president of the republic of lithuania, excellentsy. >> i certainly appreciated the
diplomacy that the head of nato tried to show president trump this morning after facing string of insults. he actually credited the president with having nato members increase their military spending when, in fact, the reality is that that's been happening for four years now. that began under barack obama. that began soon after bob gates began pressuring nato to do just that. and still, diplomats will be diplomats and they are doing their best to try to deal with american president who appears to be doing his best to do the bidding of vladimir putin. >> and stoltenberg has come here, met with the president in the oval office, has tried so hard to warm trump up and persuade him of nato's inherent advantage for the united states and of what they are doing. the irony is that the president
trump could have come here and took a victory lap and take credit for what started under bob gates and barack obama and some of their predecessors getting the nato members to stand up and meet these goals for 2024 as germany and others have. he could have come in and said that they are doing this because of my pressure. and instead, he came in his ha ranging form and tried to blow the whole thing up. and you have to admire stoltenberg for trying to put the best face on it, but he has the most difficult job right now. you can only imagine what angela merkel is thinking. you think back to the history of nato and how these summits used to be held in bahn. reagan standing at the gate and saying tear down this wall, mr. gorbachev. i was there. it was one of the most incredible impressions, moments i ever experienced as a
correspondent. and now to see this wreckage taking place with our commander in chief supposedly, it really is shocking. >> andrea mitchell, thank you. we'll be watching andrea mitchell reports at 12:00 p.m. right here on msnbc, wouldn't miss it, especially today. elizabeth, thank you for being on the show. >> elizabeth, can i ask you, do people come up to you on the streets because of this fast pace, this moving documentary, do kids come up screaming asking for autographs of you? >> actually it happened over the weekend in brooklyn. i will tell you one person came up to me. i was shocked. that was it. >> by the way -- >> you should not be surprised it was in brooklyn. >> you were very kind to give us a tour of the news room. >> thanks. >> and i must say, the pace was a little bit slower that day than it is editing of this documentary. >> as they say, they make it
very exciting. one of our news clerks says that he called and said i'm having a salad at union station. do you think the documentary crew could come and film it and make it very exciting. so, yeah, we take your point. >> got it. still ahead -- thanks so much. a group of -- still ahead on "morning joe" a group of former foreign ministers is urging the president to in an open letter to reverse what it calls the dangerous trend of america's deteriorating relationship with its western allies. that trend, of course, includes the president's increasingly blatant overtures to vladimir putin. we'll talk about the implications with the former secretary of homeland security, michael chertoff. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. - i love my grandma. - anncr: as you grow older, your brain naturally
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then do something with putin that further destabilizes the relationship. hopefully what will happen is, you know, that we'll have a good nato meeting and that the putin meeting will almost be a non-event as far as any commitment is made. >> that was the chairman of the foreign relations committee, senator bob corker speaking yesterday, not exactly sure how the senator would describe a negative nato meeting, but humiliating american allies right out of the gate might qualify. joining us now someone who might be able to add to this conversation, we're all a little stunned and speechless, former department of homeland security michael chertoff. he is out with a book. we will get to that in a moment because it's all related ultimately. >> it is. >> how do you put into words the damage that is unfolding at the
nato summit? and is there any other way to explain the president's i call it sort of carrying out putin's dream and his performance. any other way to read that an as directly as a favor to putn? >> well, first of all, for a number of administrations people have urged nato to step up more and do more spending. and actually they're moving in that direction. and of course as i think someone mention eed earlier in the show they stood should to shoulder with us after 9/11 in afghanistan. i think things are progresses what the alliance is doing in the right way. why the president is choosing to come in with guns blazing, i don't know whether that's a negotiating tactic to try to drive more behavior than he wants or whether it's simply expresses some kind of emotional reaction. i think what was very helpful was to have a virtually unanimous senate vote endorsing
nato. i do think the europeans understand that that relationship we have with them is an enduring relationship. it's not something that's going to come and go with a single president. >> mike? >> but you worked for a president of the united states who had his ups and downs, like all do. but this is the first time i think in at least my memory, maybe the country's history, where we have had a president of the united states who appears on the world stage next to other global leaders with a grievance, a public grievance on his shoulder. what's your reaction to that? >> well, you know, first of all, i agree with you. there were ups and downs with president bush, but he certainly never took a position that was antagonistic, although he stood his ground on certain issues. again, this is a stylish shoe. i can't explain why donald trump chooses to come out with a certain kind of persona. what i can say, though, again is that the organs of government themselves and the relationships between the europeans and the americans at the intelligence level and the defense level are
very, very strong. even in the worst periods of the relationship under president bush when there was some real hostility about iraq, we still worked very well together at the operational level, and i'm sure that's going to continue. >> jon meacham. >> i want to ask, as you served on the front line of collective security, particularly in the new asymmetrical era, do you think moments like this impact our intelligence services capacity to share information, our capacity to work together to keep us protected? >> actually the good news is i don't think it does. there was a lot of antagonism president bush after the iraq war started and yet operationally we had very close relationships with our counterparts all over europe. i don't expect that to change. so i'm not saying it's a good thing to have this level of public friction, but at the day to day working level, i think we continue to have a good relationship. >> i want to get to the book,
but i'm curious your thoughts on the president's separation policy, separating children from families. there are several thousands children, some say up to 3,000 that were separated and we've got certain numbers coming in from different news organizations about some very small children who they may not be able to reunite with their parents. it's all very complicated. but do you think the policy had a plan to track these children in a way that was effective? or do we have some questions here that this policy wasn't thought out and might have been purely political? >> the planning is there and i think that's why they're having difficulty reuniting people. i don't know what the genesis of this was but it looks like it was put in place very quickly and as a consequence, the issues about how do you track people, how do you verify what the family relationships are, those things do not appear to have been in place when they started this problem. i can tell you that in general
when you have any kind of initiative, it always takes people think it does. obviously what they're doing now is paying the price for the lack of a front end policy. and i hope they can figure out a way to get this reunification done as quickly as possible. >> well, it's to me so unbelievably not who we are that it's hard to fathom this is happening. >> so can i pivot to the book? i know you want to talk about it. >> please do. >> i'm going to ask in the weeds question and you can ask it in a quick way. one of the things that i encountered in governments part of the post snowden era, countries like russia passing data localization laws where they say any data you take from someone in our country has to pass through a server in our country so those people have access to that data. i know you're writing about privacy and people are thinking about privacy here, but what is the global implication of that kind of thing both for everyone on the planet and for u.s.
citizens? >> you put your finger on what is a real challenge because data is global. it does not respect physical boundaries. our laws are based on physical boundaries. that tension exists in a lot of areas now as we try to reconcile the idea if with an open and free internet with increasing intent by some countries to control information within their borders, particularly as it relates to their own citizens. we have to decide, do we want a real global internet or do we want a series of little national nets which would really undercut the economic and social value of what the internet is. >> david ignatius has a question. david? >> i want to ask secretary chertoff about one issue that may be on the agenda in helsinki when president trump and president putin meet, and that is the idea of global cyber regime, of global set of rules and standards administered
through the united nations or some international organization. the russians, as you know, secretary chertoff have been pushing this idea for the last few years. last few years. a lot of americans resist the idea that russians and chinese would write the rules for everybody. what do you think? >> first of of all, i do think we need to have some global rules, a kind of -- what microsoft has described as a geneva convention in cyberspace. we need to reinforce the idea that the fact we're operating in cyberspace does not mean you can attack civilians or undermine civil institutions. on the other hand, the question is who administers this? the russians and the chinese often want to have it be the u.n. because they believe they can dominate that process. i'm afraid that would take us down a road where there would be a lot of censorship. i know they view it as ideas they don't like to hear.
i think most western states want a multi-stake model where you get not just governments but civil society and even technical people involved in governing in kind of an incremental way. >> interesting waets going on there. you look at prime minister erdogan and trump walking together. just thought i would point that out because he seems to have done some things in the early hours of all of this happening in front of the cameras that appear to be for putin. and coming in from a separate entrance, possibly symbolic to separate himself. and now seemingly clustering a little bit with turkey's prime minister. it's fascinating. >> he's drawn to tough guys. mr. secretary, i realize you've been stepped away from an official capacity for quite a while, but i have a feeling that most americans would be stunned at the amount of money, billions, that american companies pay to prevent cyber
attacks against them. but we live in a world, we're in a threat of constant cyber attacks. i understand the removal in time from your office, but who are the top three, four, five practitioners, really good practitioners of cyber warfare in the world that we have to cope with? >> first of all, i think we certainly are as good as anybody. but we're dealing with the russians and the chinese. the chinese have been prolific in stealing sintellectual property over the years, though they've dialed it back a bit. the russians are responsible for a tax on the ukraine, a tax on us. there is disclosure that malicious tools have been found on our critical infrastructure. then you have north korea and iran who are not as capable, but they're more malicious and more unrestrained. the truth is you can buy a lot of bad stuff now on what they call the dark web. so these countries, although they're not at the level of a
russia or china, do have the ability to acquire some serious cyber weapons, and i think that's another concern. >> can we keep up with this? it's a constant daily battle, i would imagine. >> i think we are technically as good or better than anybody. but the problem is we're playing defense. it's an asymmetric game where the attacker just has to attack once. also not every enterprise sin vested as they should be in cyber security. it's a little like being a hockey goalie and you're getting a lot of free shots on goal, and that makes it very difficult to defend. >> we're watching, i believe, the setup for the family photo as they call it, and i see president trump having some pleasant conversation -- sort of pleasant -- she's kind of like, uh-huh, uh-huh. yep. yep, i'm really trying not to look at him and talk to him, but
he keeps coming back at me. i'm just going to look straight ahead here and hope the conversation stops. fascinating dynamics leading up to this photo being taken. president trump, of course, has certainly made waves in the first few hours of the nato summit, culminating in this picture, preceded by him entering and hanging out and walking with turkey's prime minister erdogan. and before that deciding to enter the nato headquarters from a different entrance than all the other world leaders were using. and before that, his performance before the cameras addressing nato's secretary general about germany. and it really -- by all estimates, everybody here on the set and andrea mitchell and all those who have been covering these summit for decades, astonished is a word to use to
describe the reaction that we are seeing among top foreign policy analysts. and also really no other explanation for what could have been behind what he was saying except that he was doing everything, seemingly, to please vladimir putin. which, really, i'm stretching my brain here, david ignatius, to think of what other intention would be other than what he said before the cameras about germany. >> i think this president likes to cause instability, who likes to create an uproar. he thinks that's advantageous before going to a key meeting with vladimir putin in helsinki. he thinks, strangely, that this will give him the appearance of strength that he's willing to diss his key allies and he'll come to the meeting with putin
in stronger shape. i have a feeling that the script for the putin meeting will be to write some new rules for places like syria, begin to write them for ukraine independent of our nato allies. it's going to be putin and trump who are getting the job done. he loves that role. up there with another big guy, whether it's xi jinping or kim jong-un and now putin writing the rules. i must say writing these pictures, you see him with clenched teeth, sort of scowling with everybody. he talks stiffly with other leaders, but there is a sense that this isn't a club he wants to be part of. i bet you anything we'll see a lot more presidential smiles when he's in helsinki with vladimir putin. fancy that. >> he doesn't like to share a stage, clearly. it's all about him.
mr. secretary, when you were there, ms-13 is quite a thing the president likes to talk about. it was on your screen, ms-13, as clearly as huge as it is on president trump's screen? >> it was on our screen and we were concerned about what was going on in the u.s., but a bigger problem was this. as we deported people back to their home countries after they served prison terms, they were received by places that didn't have the ability to manage the influx. or you had el salvador receiving ms-13 members, and all of a sudden they have the responsibility to police them and they don't have the capability. one of the things you have to look at when you see our refugee and our immigration policy is the solution begins not in the u.s. but in central america. you know, we need to have the ability of these countries to build a policing capability and deal with the gangs where
they're actually gestating because that's what's driving the refugees and creating our problem. this is a system problem, not a u.s. problem. >> can you look at this picture and all the dynamics we're covering between the key leaders we're looking at on this stage. >> once upon a time, and always until now, america was the anchor of nato, right? and now he's the outlyer. he's standing outside everybody and everybody is thinking he's this -- to use the phrase from this morning -- the kind of wrecking ball for nato. can i ask the secretary a question? go back to your book since they're standing still. one of the things we worried about were domestic attacks on the u.s.
the rise of isis messaging which is what i dealt with. what happens when people around the world who doesn't like muslims, wants to decrease muslims in america. does that increase the likelihood of an attack by an extremist islamic group? >> it does, because somehow it says the narrative is oppressed and they end up striking back. we're going to see rise extreme right wing and left wing violence. when you dial up the rhetoric and you use language that's aggressive and hateful, that empowers a certain segment of society to act out. just the way we did in the '60s where we show extreme right and left violence, i'm afraid we'll start to see an uptick of things we've seen, for example, in charlottesville. >> well, we're watching the
family picture, and some families, as joe pointed out, are quite dysfunctional. what a time it is. we're watching president trump now at the nato summit. we have an interesting dynamic where the president is insulting in a bold-faced way our allies, but 97 members of the u.s. senate passing a resolution to support nato with only two "no" votes, and of course senator mccain not able to vote. it is the top of the hour. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," david ignatius, foreign public of state michael chertoff. david, the resolution patssed b
the senate, how symbolic is that to the world, or does it not have a lot of weight given the gravity of the situation? >> i think it is a reminder that donald trump is not the only voice in america, but he's certainly the strongest. it's symbolic. looking at the class picture of all those leaders standing together, i kept thinking if we were going to put a caption underneath donald trump, it would say, does not play well with others. that's really a problem. this is a president who, in a collective alliance that's all about interdependence, shared security doesn't play well with others. he gets angry at them. he's jealous. if one is making too much money in trade, he wants to beat them down. if they're not contributing enough to this or that, he insists on haranguing them. the spirit of nato collected action is still very much alive in our congress. so many senators and congressmen
have attended nato meetings in europe. the people who sign that resolution, i think, have a personal, intimate sense of what this alliance means. senator reid was one of the principal authors of senator mccain is a perfect example. john mccain goes to europe many times every year, and if there is a symbol for europeans of what the durable american commitment to their security is, it is senator john mccain, ailing now with his very serious brain cancer. but, boy, there is a person who kept this alliance going and symbolized personally what it meant for several generations of europeans. >> another word about john mccain, i was lucky enough to know him not only when i was in office to work with him, but also to travel with him to the munich security conference a few times, and he was really a beacon to the europeans and to
the world about what the u.s. meant. and he also tut ored and educatd a lot of members of congress and got them involved and engaged and that's a very strong part of the enduring relationship between our allies in europe and the united states. >> and when he was in munich or any other place in the world, i think other world leaders knew that what he said, his word was good. >> yep. >> what's confounding about this, i've been to nato meetings. what's great about a nato meeting, boy, people embrace you. you're the star of the party. it's a great feeling to be behind the flag at a nato meeting and think, yes, we've been the ballast of this, we've been the foundation of this. and people are grateful. the fact that the president is so ungrateful and so animated is a terrible thing for the united states. >> the picture is interesting. if you look at most members of
the nato countries, especially the european nato countries, each of the heads of those governments know that in their countries, there are american cemetaries with young men dead since 1945. and it's american territory, it's maintained by the government services administration, our government. there are beautiful plots of land in each and every country in europe. and guess what we did after world war ii, after we left our dead, after we buried our dead? we came home. we did not put a claim on their country, on their land. we came home. that's america. >> what's the colin powell quote, john? >> protected power around the world, sacrifice blood of our young men and all we've ever asked in return is the ground in which to bury our dead. >> and that's what this country has been about.
again, since 1945 we have stood side by side with britain. as i said before, rick, germany coming under withering attack today by the president, but the west germans from 1945 through 1989 with the collapse of the berlin wall, the west germans stood on the front line of that twilight struggle. they have been our closest allies militarily and strategically for years. >> and the unification of germany was one of the great post-war achievements that was led by american diplomacy. that changed the world for better in so many ways that it was just kind of incalculable. by the way, people didn't necessarily think it was going to happen. >> by the way, a lot of people didn't want it to happen. george h.w. bush had to use all
diplomatic skills that he had to unite germany. >> and the main person or entity that didn't want it was russia. russia always wanted a divided, split-up germany on its border, and the fact that this was their nightmare come true and the dream come true, as mika was saying, was to have an american president in germany criticizing germany is just -- i mean, david ignatius is too good a novelist to even put that in one of his columns. >> it would be crazy if he wrote it. it would be too crazy. >> nobody would believe it, would they? >> they would think it was pre p preposterous. come on. >> we have a great clip of president ronald reagan on the right way to talk about germany.
but first, our president, keep your eye wpinpointed on his chif of staff john kelly and secretary of state mike pompeo, because their body language is fascinating. >> also, kay bailey hutchinson also looks more than a bit uncomfortable. >> here is the president of the united states. >> i think it's very sad when germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with russia where you're supposed to be guarding against russia, and germany goes out to pay billions and billions of dollars a year to russia. we're protecting germany, we're protecting france, we're protecting all of these countries, then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with russia where they're paying billions of dollars into the coffers of russia. we're supposed to protect you against russia, but they're paying billions of dollars to russia, and i think that's very inappropriate. and the former chancellor of
germany is the head of the pipeline company that's supplying the gas. ultimately germany will have almost 70% of their country controlled by russia with natural gas. you tell me, is that appropriate? i mean, i've been complaining about this from the time i got here. it never should have been allowed to have happened. but germany is totally controlled by russia. i think it's something that nato has to look at. i think it's very inappropriate. you and i agreed that it's inappropriate. >> there are sometimes differences and different views and also some disagreements on the gas pipeline from russia to germany. it's a small issue in which allies disagree. but we've always been able to unite to protect and defend each other because we stand stronger together than apart. we have two world wars and a
cold war and we are stronger together than apart. >> how can you be together when a country is getting its energy from the person you want protection against or from the group that you want protection? >> because we understand that when we stand together also in dealing with russia, we are stronger. i think what we have seen -- >> you're just making russia richer. you're not dealing with russia, you're making russia richer. >> even during the cold war, nato allies were trading with russia and there have been disagreements on what kind of trade arrangements we should have. >> i think trade is wonderful. i think energy is a whole different story. ic i think energy is a much different story than trade. you have a country that won't accept the gas. you take a look at some of the countries, they won't accept it because they don't want to be captive to russia. but germany, as far as i'm concerned, is captive to russia because it's getting so much of its energy from russia. so we're supposed to protect
germany, but they're getting their energy from russia. explain that. and it can't be explained, you know that. >> so, mr. secretary, there has been controversy behind this pipeline. and as a head of nato told donald trump, we have disagreements all the time. that's why we come here to talk through the disagreements. >> putting aside how this was expressed, there has been a concern about the fact that the russians use their gas, natural gas, as a lever to kind of drive behavior that they want to drive. and one of the solutions would be for us to export more of our liquid natural gas to europe which would create a counterbalance to the russians. so if one could strip out some of the hostility, there is actually a point to be made here about the geopolitics of energy that would be helpful both to us and to the europeans. >> so how does the united states export more? >> well, i think what we do is
we allow the regulations to permit us to do more exporting. for a long time we've been very constrained in our ability to export. we work with the europeans, if they're willing to sign contracts with us. that would then create a counterbalance to the russian use of their pipeline as a way of kind of exerting pressure. >> how do we do that in the middle of a trade war where we've racked europe with tariffs? >> that's where you have to get strategic. the big picture is to move power away from putin and back to europe and ourselves, and that way we're not dealing with steel which doesn't have an impact on the trade balance. we should be talking about energy and technology which is really our value position globally. >> let's compare trump's posture on germany to this, ronald
reagan and his nato allies in 1982 as he departed western germany. >> in berlin this morning, i looked across that tragic wall and saw the grim consequences of freedom denied. but i was deeply inspired by the courage and dedication to liberty which i saw in so many faces on the western side of that city. the purpose of my trip to bonn was to consult both with leaders of the german government and our colleagues from other nations. both aspects of the visit have been a great success. we didn't seek to avoid the problems facing the west in the coming years, we met them head on and discovered that, as always, what unites us is much deeper and more meaningful than any differences which might exist. >> john meacham. >> a different era, i think is
safe to say. and interesting -- ronald reagan came into office in 1981, as he himself put it, with a lot of people believing he was a combination of the mad bomber and ebenezer scrooge. there is a kind of center left acceptance of reagan and reaganism now that is, a, historical in the sense that it was not true in realtime. in 1982, '83, there were extraordinary demonstrations both in the united states and around europe by the deployment of the hrhing 2. so the idea there was this colleague before trump is not true. what is true is reagan was someone who came out of cultural populism, and as president reached beyond his base. he governed for the whole
country. he came in as a cold warrior who said -- the first week he was at the white house and said the soviet union lies and cheats to seek world domination. and in 1998, he's literally standing in red square playing with babies. he was a union negotiator. he understood that hope was a better bet than fear. president trump comes from a populist tradition here. he has shown no interest, and in fact, quite the opposite, in ever reaching out beyond his base. >> and, you know, mr. secretary, one thing that mark anbinder talked about in his book about ronald reagan was reagan was obsessed with understanding the soviets. he didn't quite understand why the soviets feared us as much as they did. so he read every book on the soviet union he could. he was constantly asking
experts, why do they fear us? what do we need to do? after he got shot, of course, we all know he felt like it was -- god had given him this time on earth to rid the world of the nuclear menace. and that's what he got to work on by trying to understand those with whom he disagreed. >> that would seem to be a good model for the 45th president as well. >> reagan had a positive vision. it wasn't just negative, it was how to reach something positive. and he had a strategic vision. and i think maybe to a greater degree than was appreciated at the time, he was somebody who listened and learned and was a thinker. i think that was a real strength that he had. i will say that if you look at the russians now, they still harbor that sense of fear and paranoia that goes back to the '80s. and what's been striking to me in the little bit of interaction i've had with them is how
generally convinced they are that we're out to undermine them, and in many ways they haven't lost that chip on their shoulder that you see back in the reagan era. >> mr. secretary, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you, michael chertoff. >> and talk about a timely book, an important book. the book is "exploding data: reclaiming our cyber security in the digital age." a must read. thank you. president trump may think nato is a waste of time, but as we mentioned, 97% of the u.s. senate disagrees with the president of the united states. how lawmakers sent their own message to american allies just hours after the president touched down in europe. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we do whatever it takes to fight cancer.
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belgium. the measure was authored by ranking member of the senate armed services committee, jack reed. >> the united states participates in nato because we believe the trans-atlantic partnership is in the u.s. national interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection. >> the motion reaffirms the u.s. commitment to nato as a community of shared values including liberty, human rights, democracy and the rule of law. in addition it calls for the u.s. to pursue an integrated approach to strengthen u.s. defense as part of a long-term strategy that uses all elements of u.s. national power to deter, and if necessary, defeat russian aggression. it also reiterates u.s. support for the rules-based international order and for expanding and enhancing our alliances and partnerships. senators rand paul and mike lee were the only two to vote against the motion. >> yeah.
wow. okay. caskasie hunt, that is the unit states senate sending as strong a message as possible to our nato allies, as well as to vladimir putin, talking about russian aggression in that language and also, you know, some of the republican senators that went over and were criticized for going over to russia actually, if you look at what was said in those meetings, there was confrontation about the russians interfering, meddling in our 2016 election. it seems the senate, at least, and some republicans in the senate, at least, except for mark lee and rand paul, thicnk it's a good idea to stand shoulder to shoulder with our european allies and stand out against regression. >> this reads to me like an attempt by the u.s. senate, republicans ask dnd democrats a, to send a message to our nato
allies, please try not to worry too much, we promise to keep the light on for you. as we move past this era, this is still something important to us. there were so many republicans who didn't want trump to get elected in the first place. they thought there would be a lot of problems and issues. i don't think any of them ever dreamed that it would be a serious question to ask -- mitch mcconnell got the question yesterday, do you think this president is going to pull us out of nato, the house we built. this is the western world the united states of america has been built after the cold war and it's been bedrock for all of our foreign policy, but particularly on the republican side. you look at ronald reagan at the end of the cold war. so the fact this vote was so overwhelming, the fact that it happened at all, jack reed, a democrat, they gave it to him and his counterpart, obviously, not here in washington, still battling brain cancer. but that is just an incredible signal and it comes from the top down. >> john meacham.
yes, it was the house we built, nato. the ignorance of donald trump and the ignorance of those who believe he somehow is showing those europeans, showing them what real leadership is about, again, only reveals an ignorance that the house that america built in europe we built for our own selfish interest. we built to protect our military troops, to stop a third european world war from occurring in 30 years. we did it to build strong trade partners. and what happened? we built strong trade partners. we kept germany, we kept italy, we kept france, we kept a lot of countries out of stalin's grasp after world war ii.
this, along with the truman doctrine, the morso plan. one of america's greatest investments ever. forget about the niceties of democracy and freedom, just cold, hard cash. so when donald trump is playing businessman over there, he's being a fool and tearing down the foundation of america's $19 trillion economy. >> yeah. when fdr was dictating the for-freedom speech in 1941 which was freedom for one, freedom from fear, he said we must fight to guarantee these freedoms everywhere in the world, everywhere in the world, everywhere in the world. he was dictating this. and harry hopkins, his great adviser, said, mr. president, i wouldn't say everywhere in the world because america doesn't give a damn about java. and hear truman came back and
said, the world is getting so small we have to care about java. we have to care about berlin. churchill said at harvard in 1943 that the price of greatn s greatness, america cannot have the long arm of history reach out across the oceans. so it's entirely in our self-interest. coming up on "morning joe," two of the top democrats on capitol hill, the ranking member on oversight and government reform, congressman elijah cummings. and the party's leading voice on the senate committee, senator bob menendez. "morning joe" is back in a moment. - i love my grandma. - anncr: as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall.
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aimed at undermining germany, and again, right now it's looking like other summits that our president has attended. and continues a trend of being most abusive diplomatically to liberal democracies who have been our closest allies since the end of world war ii. and being, of course, most obseqious towards dictators and autocrats. which really, rick stengel, makes the next summit donald trump will be having with vladimir putin all the more important with the world all the more focused on whether an american president is really
going to undermine the nato alliance before going and embracing vladimir putin, a man who we said a few days ago would cause him his least worries. >> yes. if you bought a new spy novel and it opened with an american president going to a nato summit and attacking germany, you would probably put it down because it was too i am applaumplausible, never happen. but if it was the same novel, he would go to see putin who seeks to unravel nato and has a summit where they're hugging and kissing. it's just inconceivable. we were looking at ronald reagan in berlin in 1982 who talked about americans that died to protect our european allies, and ronald reagan would be so appalled at what donald trump is doing. it's absolutely inconceivable, and as mika said earlier can,
it's p -- it's putin's dream to see an american president attacking nato. >> we've seen them as an imminent threat to russia for some time just as the soviet union did as well. mike, making that bad spy novel all the more unbelievable about an american president doing the bidding, whether consciously or subconsciously for vladimir putin by undermining nato, would be the fact that that bad spy novel would begin with the president being investigated for possible collusion with vladimir putin and russia because, well, of the 13 russians that have been indicted, his national security adviser who was close to russia who has been indicted and is now cooperating, his campaign chairman who has been indicted and is now in jail with close ties to russia and russian
oligarchs, his deputy campaign manager also caught lying to the fbi. i mean, you could go down the list. and so that's all the backdrop for what we're seeing here. a president accused of being too close to vladimir putin and with suspicions raised about vladimir putin having something on him going to putin's bidding. this isn't a spy novel's work. you don't do it in the light of day, but donald trump does. >> as we were spelling out the gist of this preposterous spy novel which is all playing out in reality in our newspapers and newspapers around the world as we speak, one of the principal characters in the back story of this preposterous spy novel is seated three rows directly behind the president of the united states, and it is general james mattis, the secretary of defense, who has to, i imagine,
carry on a separate dialogue with other ministers from the nato countries, basically telling them, listen, i understand what happened this morning. i understand where our president is coming from, i understand your fears, but we are here. we will be there if article 5 is invoked. america stands behind its word. that's general mattis' task. >> and secretary mattis famously said nato was so important that if it didn't exist, we would have to invent it. >> absolutely. general ismay said something and lady thatcher used it later, that the purpose of nato was to keep the russians out, the germans down and the americans in. and right now, i suspect the germans are up. they want to keep russia out, still. i'm not sure they want us around so much. >> it's part of the infrastructure of the most remarkable era of prosperity and
relative stability, certainly, what, since the 1400s, i would say. certainly in the last six or seven hundred years. what's the great achievement? irony upon irony here. the great achievement of the post-war era in many ways is the american middle class. the level of material prosperity, the ultimate, though, painstaking and it took too long, the ultimate expansion of the jeffersonian promise of equality. i don't think it's a coincidence that 1964 and '65 saw us actually undo jim crow. it was partly because people were prosperous and they were able to finally, on the white side of the color line, were able to listen to those better angels. >> that's what's puzzling here.
like 1964 and 1965, we have been living in prosperity for the better part of 40, 50 years, and certainly over the past seven years, starting in barack obama's second year, we started a recovery in this country that has continued in a straight line. we're almost at full employment. our wages are creeping upward. we don't have the excuse, well, you know, the white middle class or the white working class is frustrated and afraid that people of color are going to take their jobs. we're at full employment. that makes this time all the more vexing. why are we moving in this direction of a populist when the united states of america is enjoying unequaled, economic and military prosperity? >> that's what makes this all the all pernicious.
because what president trump has done over the last three years -- it's been almost exactly three years, right, wasn't it june 15? >> right. >> he has created an emotional crisis in the country that is not substantiated -- >> it's not attached to reality. make america great again? $19 trillion economy. make america great again? our military ten times as strong as the next. i mean, stop all the border crossings from mexico? there was a net negative rate of immigration as we sat through the entire campaign. these campaign promises that he has made to stir up the crowd and suggest that america is facing one crisis after another have been made up out of whole cloth. >> and sometimes -- social science shows that when people should be most content, they're on most dissatisfied. he is tapping into a
dissatisfaction that isn't earned. the economy is almost a full employment economy. it's disturbing. coming up next, the top democrat on the house oversight and government reform committee, elijah cummings will be with us. keep it right here on "morning joe." we're going to ask him, where are the children?
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get in line like everybody else. that said, i also think most americans agree with me that it should not be u.s. policy to rip babies, infants, toddlers from their mothers' arms and then scatter them across america in a way that actually has them lost and has our government trying to figure out how to unite parents and toddlers, infants, children. but that's what's happening. and with us now, we bring in the ranking member of the house oversight and government reform committee, democratic congressman elijah cummings of maryland. elijah, it is always great to see you. thanks for being here. >> it's good to be here, joe. >> elijah, mika has been asking for several weeks, where are the children? it's a simple, basic, straightforward question. there are some that suggest the government knows exactly where the children and the parents are and they know how to unite them. that doesn't seem to actually be
the case on the ground. what can you tell us? >> i can tell you that i think nobody really knows where all these children are and where their parents are. and i don't think -- and the reason for that, joe, is because it was never an intention from the very beginning to reunite these children with their parents. you know, something as simple as an arm band like they give you when you go in a hospital. put one on a parent, put one on a child and be able to match them up. this is not rocket science. but now we're in a situation where because they did not properly plan, because they executed the zero tolerance policy in a way that had no forethought, and as a matter of fact, it looks to me like a very mean thing that the trump administration has done, we've got children who may never,
sadly, be reunited with their parents. but one thing i am glad about, and that is the judge is taking a real hard line with the government and saying, you've got to get this done, and continuing to pressure them very, very hard. >> congressman, clearly you're speaking about a crisis that is of the moment today, but if you think about this, we've been talking about immigration reform legislation to figure out exactly how to do this since alan simpson and ted kennedy began talking about it in the mid-1980s. my question to you is, given the nature of politics today, given the polarization in both the house and the senate, do you think it's possible that in our lifetime, your lifetime and my lifetime, that there will be some legislation passed to deal with this constant issue in a common sense way? sdp >> i really hope so, and that's
why i was very pleased that congressman meadows, the head of the freedom party and certainly a republican and one of our most conservative republicans, joined with me in asking for chairman gowdy of the oversight committee to do a hearing where we began to explore, first of all, what's happening with these children, trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. but also looking at how do we put ourselves into a position we're not constantly revisiting this situation? but to go back to your question, the parties are so divided, and with president trump saying the kind of things he's been saying, it doesn't help. >> rick? >> congressman, good morning. >> good morning. >> following up on that question, putting together an immigration policy. that mighten even happen in our lifetime. is there something congress can
do right now that prevents immigration from separating young people, infants, toddlers from their family? that this zero tolerance policy needs to be amended. >> there are several pieces of legislation that i know of that will address that issue. the question is whether the speaker will allow that kind of legislation to come to the floor of the house. he has been very reluctant to allow various types of legislation to come where he thinks it might not -- you know, where he thinks that he may be embarrassed in any way. but that's going to be the key. i think we can get some of the legislation that's already out there that says you cannot do this, then we can get there. but at this point, i think it's very difficult. >> congressman, do you have any sense of when we might be looking for director mueller's report? and if your party were to take the house back in november, to
what extent do you think the likelihood of impeachment proceedings is? >> first of all, i do not have a clue as to when mueller will be issuing his report. and i think that everybody needs to just chill for a minute and allow him to do his work. i've never seen anything like this where a defense team goes so publicly attacking a prosecutor. i've never seen that and i practiced for over 20 years before i came to congress. they've done everything they can to take away his credibility. but i think we need to let him do his job. and as far as impeachment is concerned, i think we have to face that when we get to it. a lot of it is going to depend on what mueller comes back with.
>> all right. congressman elijah cummings, as always, it's great to have you on the show. it's great to see you. i'll see in you washington sometime soon. >> all right, sir. thank you. sir. thank you. the ranking member of the foreign senate relations committee, democrat bob menendez of new jersey. we've been talking about what our secretary of defense had said about nato a year or so ago. it was so important if nato didn't exist, we would have to create it. i take it from the vote in the united states senate that is the unanimous agreement of all the democrats and at least every republican except for two. >> it's the near unanimous agreement except two republicans. and today they will mark up legislation that speaks to nato alliance that's brought us peace and prosperity in 73 years.
it was there in the aftermath of world war ii. it was there to win the cold war and on september 11th when the only time nato has invoked mutual self-defense provision was on behalf of the united states when it was struck on that tragic day september 11th and for 17 years they've fought with us across the globe. at the same time it's created prosperity that we have been part of enjoying in a significant market for the united states products and services. this is critical. it's so upsetting to see that putin, whose number one goal is to divide the west, particularly in nato, has an american president doing his work for him in a way that all of his cyber attacks and twitter disinformation and trolls have been unable to achieve. putin made a great investment in the 2016 presidential election
and it's paying off for him in brussels today. >> so what does the united states senate do? what can it do in a bipartisan way to send a message to our nato allies as well as to russia, that despite the fact that we have a president who said vladimir putin would be the easiest part of his trip and that our democratic allies, who have stood by our side since 1945, were going to be the most difficult, what do we do to right side this relationship again that our commander in chief is turning upside down? >> yesterday from the beginning, as you pointed out, joe, the senate spoke in a strong bipartisan vote, national defense authorization act. today the senate will speak through the senate foreign relations committee in a near unanimous effort. one colleague, rand paul, may not be there, in solidifying the
nato relationship from a national security interest. thirdly, i have said on the senate floor and i will continue, as my colleagues will continue to echo, that sanctions against russia is not a question of discretion for the president. when we wrote casa it was the first time in all the sanctions i've helped author, whether it be gns iran or in this case against russia, that the congress did not provide the discretion to an american president and insisted on mandatory sanctions if certain actions by russia were taking. those actions can only -- those sanctions can only be undone by the senate. i think that those are three critical elements of sending a very clear message to our nato allies that congress, an expression of the will of the american people, believes in nato and the importance of it.
>> senator, we're listening to you and respect your views and they're very strong views in opposition to what the president is doing. what the president is actually doing, it seems, is undermining 75 years of peace, stability and progress in disrupting nato. it seems as if he is intent on basically detablizing nato to the point that the european union is weakened. why then do we not hear more voices come out more strongly, like yours, on the fluoro of the united states senate and elsewhere in unison about what this president is doing to our history and our country? >> i think the vote yesterday speaks loudly. i would hope that my republican colleagues -- nato has been the
bu bu bull bullwort in support of nato. they're muted voices today, other than through their vote, is a concern to me because we need to send a robust message to all of europe, particularly our nato allies and to russia, an adversary. it worries me that the president is going to a meeting with putin where he describes him as a competitor. he is not a competitor. he is an adversary, in my opinion, a foe. when you go into a meeting thinking someone is a competitor, that's a strategically different train of thought when someone is an adversary. i hope our colleagues will raise their voices as they have in the past. they just need to go back and look at those speeches and they're as relevant today as they were when they made them
before. >> appreciate it. rick stingel, there are quite a few diplomatic dumpster fires, i think kinnen called it, that we are seeing at the same time. one, of course, is what's happening in nato. and people are offering their warnings. the president ignores those warnings and another where the president ignored warnings was north korea, which cnn international reported earlier that a source with knowledge of discussions between pompeo and north korea said the trip went, quote, as badly as it could have gone. north koreans were just messing around. not serious about moving forward. pompeo was promised a meeting with kim jong-un and not getting one. and kim jong-un in his summer
whites, as willie said, picking potatoes instead of meeting with america's secretary of state sends a message. >> i harken back to what david ignatius said earlier, the forming of this great post war order that the u.s. was the foundation of. maybe we are witnessing and maybe we are present at the destruction of that order. and that is just very disturbing. >> final thoughts, john meachum, in 15 seconds? >> i think president trump thinks that dean masterson was the head of the elementary school he went to. and i think this, too, shall pass. >> long past time for bob menendez and other members of the senate on both sides of the aisle to remind donald trump that this country does not belong to him. it belongs to us. that does it for us on this very busy wednesday morning.
stephanie ruhle will pick up the coverage in two minutes. i got it. and sometimes those experts need experts. on it. [ crash ] and sometimes the expert the expert needed needs insurance expertise. it's all good. steve, you're covered for general liability. and, paul, we got your back with workers' comp. wow, it's like a party in here. where are the hors d'oeuvres, right? [ clanking ] tartlets? we cover commercial vehicles, too. i think there's something wrong with your sink.
a responsibility they are also a trump card one that he can use against europe whenever he wants. damascus and its suburbs after seven long years of fight. it's back under us control. people here still live in fear there are checkpoints. and the secret services are never far away in the in the war zone aftermath colors daily life ali is a civil servant he earns about sixty euros a month. got it i did it work we have to make compromises everywhere even when it comes to the most basic essentials even if i need something urgently i
have to think twice about what's most urgent but if we need a doctor my entire family has to go hungry for a week for just so my child can get treatment you know. a taxi ride like many other things is now four or five times more expensive than it was before the war. that the smart women are the ones paying the price for this war nobody but the women whose children were killed in the war mothers whose hearts were broken that. nothing can help us now. i had two children being both fell god save them. to head hospital at the bed of nine year old mahmoud. yes ma'am i'm at the input. where for america. in this situation that got so bad that i decided to leave the city with my children. who were.
part of we were about to cross a bridge when one of the people accompanying us stepped on a landmine just. cannot go in but it killed him his wife. and two of my children. i don't know. how the logic can is that it but fighting my daughter was ten years old. with her was the shrapnel killed her instantly woman then i had the look on her brother was just two and a half what. they were walking hand in hand at the time that all of us. he was killed. or china or who are i have two children left in us mahmoud is nine years old. and my other son a six. oh the phenomenal success ought. jobar and eastern suburb of
damascus was the front line for months now it's rubble a testimony to the horrors of the syrian war it reveals a powerless europe's failure to stop the united states russia iran saudi arabia and turkey from reigniting the war time and again. supporters of assad's regime. and their cult of death. hezbollah fighters and their martyrs have become part of damascus scenery. as have those of their sworn enemies israel and the us.
the marketplaces and souvenir shops also offer new wares. it's also hans way of thanking flattery or putin for saving his regime. they had jhana shelter near damascus for displaced persons from the radio. they're safe now but they will spend the rest of their lives as victims of the war. three hundred families found shelter here including children who have never known peace. tinsmith mohammad habib and his family also live here. for one of the i don't have any work right now sometimes something comes through but most of the time i just sit around. that of course. we need many things we can offer the children or things they want but the biggest problem is that we aren't allowed to
leave we don't have any papers they took away our i.d.'s without them we can't go anywhere. in la jolla. their daughter jasmine has just one wish. and i want to leave here but those who do manage to leave aren't always welcome back like disillusioned palestinians radicalized syrian refugees have become fresh fuel for the raging conflict in the middle east. will iran be the next country after syria to spiral into war the us has been openly threatening the islamic republic for three years iran's population has been waiting for the nuclear deal it struck with international superpowers to start paying off but so far the european investments are nowhere in sight three years ago we met oil
worker in man and his wife neda back then many in iran were hoping for a better life our status of my life comes down at the present because the value of iranian money. comes down against the dollars american dollars it's difficult for us then to get a snapshot and making ends meet has really tough. matches even though my husband has such a hard job and we both money we can get by. with our expenses are just too high places and if it is out of staff that. i do think if we get better though. i hope. we hope we hope to. be helped to. get. a result after. ned. negotiation less that he she should. be done to be better given to be happy in
the box to live in by cutting. edge. ah i. think i. but things are different than expected instead the us is threatening to impose more sanctions iran's conservative say they knew this would happen all along they had been against the nuclear deal right from the start they say the us can't be trusted and that europe is too weak to keep it in check that. their rights we have are very valuable for us we don't want just. give up them for nazi they have. marketed our scientists because of. no clear rights. you see that this is important if it wasn't
important they want to have them. many in europe consider president rouhani to be a new ray of hope but now he's under pressure from two sides the people want to see positive results from the nuclear deal while his conservative opponents are taking advantage of the crisis his rivals are the ones actually holding power the latest election so many reformists enter parliament but the military and courts still belong to the hardliners even friends of the president must fear repression. that. the power is based on the country's oil richness we went back to visit him onto a joey at his workplace in the persian gulf it's risky in light of years of economic sanctions helicopters. airplanes are more prone to crash.
the u.s. policies are hitting iran's oil production particularly hard although iran was able to improve its sales over the past years their refineries are in a disastrous state they're in urgent need of foreign investment. traces of the iraqi bombing campaign from the one nine hundred eighty s. can still be seen today will the trumpet administration start the bombing again can the e.u. do anything better than just wait and see. the wealthy most of us aren't as affected by international pressure. if hurt simple iranians like him on judge i.e. much more it's gotten harder and harder for him to plan his future his country has been in a state of emergency since his birth. i left i know the fighting i might try the i have a problem. i'll start from the left i but yeah i
guess i doubt it yeah i i thought . many and iran are proud that differing opinions can still be published in their country but freedom of the press isn't that well protected throughout europe any more. march fifteenth is a hungary a national holiday commemorating the fallen heroes of the rebellion against the habsburg monarchy in eight hundred forty eight picture orbán uses the celebrations as a platform to promote himself and his feet as party his rhetoric is inflammatory it sounds as if hungary is on the brink of war. as you call it only. we stand on one side with those who believe in nation states the protection of borders and the value of family and work you don't were opposed by those who want
an open society who want a world without borders or nations and new types of families devalued work and cheap labor ruled by an army of inscrutable bureaucrats who cannot be held responsible but let little go back should i go look at it. this message is clear hungary is in danger but as long as his party stays in power he can keep that danger at bay and his country say his propaganda is affected. we don't want refugees here then kill it we've seen what happens at night no matter where they end up in europe it will let me know if their neck when i'm a quarter we don't want to live the way they do in vienna our government is trying to resist this migration insanity will us knock out and never any of these don't shock upon it that i feel safe and secure here i don't have to keep looking over my
shoulder to make sure i'm not about to be attacked. but western europe. stuff like that happens all the time over there and strangely enough nobody's ever allowed to talk about it to me and that a common enemy unites people this particular enemy is hungry an american billionaire george soros or bonds government has cast him as a model for how illegal migration can threaten hungary and heritage their hearts we will fight against everything that the imperial of george soros is doing to hungary and this planning to do this is our life our home we have no other that's why we will fight for it to our last breath we won't ever give up so hard i. always fall against some kind of enemy in one nine hundred eighty nine it was the cameron ism and the upcoming decades it proved to be liberalism the european union and i.m.f. they come with. the migration now the united nations everybody that is. not
a fan of politics. n.g.o.s that soros supports are being harassed like amnesty international not long ago legislation was passed that made it much harder for n.g.o.s to operate in hungary aiding refugees is now punishable by law and as whether you will it was automatically n.-g. o. law fits neatly into or bans illiberal democracy that tries to silence those who don't want to live in such a democracy that. government has been combating independent civil society for five years with varying intensity hearts but without stopping. i or bones goal is to preserve his power so he can continue ruling as he pleases he and his party control everything in hungary and have created and illiberal state in which he controls all checks and balances himself
governing with. no resistance government officials claim it's the will of the people checks and balances the checks and balances are as strong as ever or even stronger it's true the first eight years we were in power we had the opportunity to nominate and elect a number of people. but hungary's majority leans to the conservative side. and our constitutional bodies can independently come to free and good decisions aren't unlawful. activity. we are visiting the private studio of here t.v. or news t.v. ever since the broadcasters owner fell out with viktor orban reporting has become critical toward the government and since reporting has become critical politicians have stopped visiting the studio. interview requests are simply ignored politically
independent and critical media have no place in illiberal democracy government critique is not welcome i'm meeting professor of national audubon she teaches information communication at the budapest quarter venous university she analyzed the media situation in hungary her findings were devastating she says the media landscape is mostly controlled by or bonds government. and hungary they call public television state television because it really is far from being independent public media like in western europe it's pure government propaganda. the same goes for private media which is controlled by people close to the government. and in the meantime all eighteen regional papers in the hands of investors who are also close to the government.
hungary celebrates its eight hundred forty eight heroes with pomp and circumstance including a flag that is one thousand eight hundred forty eight meters long rolled out along budapest's main boulevard on the russian avenues for bonds government nurtures the dream of a strong nation a superpower. whoever loves hungary must be a patriot and it follows that all patriots must support or bonds party for it embodies the will of the entire nation and the party is victor or bomb. the government sees the e.u.'s insignificant nothing more than an economic grouping without shared values in budapest they consider the liberal values to be delusional the e.u. is a cash cow for aid money yes political guidance no thank you. one of the signs reads get out or these students are protesting against the
government's education politics they are unhappy with their curricula which they say is fraught with nationalistic conservative values students feel they're being poorly prepared to compete in the european job market. i. mean show finances the schools are poorly financed and we need a new one this is like. they need to teach content adequate for the twenty first century was my idea to get. a bit of a not so i q a problem is that the basics are very outdated it might have been relevant two hundred years ago but not anymore hungary's euthanised longer able to compete and the long term that's going to be a problem for the entire country will be my. test results of the program for international student assessment are alarming hungry scores are worse each year many teachers have begun advocating for
a better school system. i bet on that is a big. name some carry an educational system is controlled centrally by the state. the ministry dictates which books we teachers should order. these textbooks are usually of poor quality. i mean the ministry also determines what must be taught. but the content is very antiquated and in some cases it's become useless . in the. hungry school system is weighed down with ideology and strict hierarchy the schools autonomy is gone budapest decides typical for bonds government. that immediately five heads in the sense creativity and freedom are simply not wanted in this system a solid modern school system is democratic. but that doesn't fit into an illiberal state. in the past years about six hundred thousand well educated young
people turned their backs on hungry and set out to find their way elsewhere in europe jobs are particularly coveted in great britain germany and austria. thought. people skeptical of the e.u. have one target they like especially uncle americal whether in italy england or poland strange considering what a survival artiste she's turned out to be while other leaders come and go she has held fast as the head of germany for over a decade. kinds and i know of no one post to how experienced can change things in europe or in the world for the better especially not the chancellor of germany will that when a school she's looking out of the few of us need of germany for a start. and she's the strongest leader in the european union and because of the
e.u. leaders have been so weak and because how has talked to by default assumed this leadership . in her decade of being chancellor angela merkel has shown many faces hesitant indecisive lacking courage. then she became the crisis manager and europe's cold hearted treasurer old german clichés of german dominance started to reawaken. when refugees began arriving her image changed again overnight merkel became the beacon of hope for people in need. she would feel in government two and a half years later in the german bundestag obeid feel an old europe faces a number of challenges how to deal with migration could become the one that decides the fate of the european union when. germany once so reliable has started to falter old sir. mts are disappearing for on the american tour for years she tried to
wrestle vladimir putin into a solution for the crimean peninsula and ukraine with the arrival of donald trump her transatlantic partner in the white house has become an unpredictable opponent those two represent old and new leaders who want to weaken germany and a weak union. russian political satire nice game design. limited next with the help of the game engine and modern digital technology it creates. a great taking place. satire goes russian on t.v. w. . clever parents courageous. shifts next. to. every journey begins with the first step and
like i don't belong look i sit in a city of here and the stumps snippet of india. many here support the so-called islamification agenda that are the ones party is pursuing. that didn't it didn't sit right religion and politics shouldn't be separated they go hand in hand were a muslim country after all the good it didn't addition uta was. was. others think are the one is deliberately dismantling democratic institutions his opposition is struggling to find its footing. one of their leaders came to rallied a large protest when he walked more than four hundred kilometers from istanbul he was accompanied by tens of thousands of followers his justice march demonstrated
tens of thousands more try to reach greece on foot but turkish authorities stop them at the border. you know that if we can do this once or twice but we could also open our doors to the refugees and wish them safe passage to europe. negotiations dragged on for months before the e.u. and turkey were able to strike a deal its implications are immense at the same time or to one increased pressure on the media the justice system and on any kind of opposition. to go on is keeping refugees out of europe or. in return the e.u. is handing him the keys to establishing an authoritarian system and turning a blind eye to. turkey
or the e.u. who has more leverage the country currently harbors about three and a half million refugees from syria alone to air to one they are not only a responsibility they are also a trump card one that he can use against europe whenever he wants. damascus and its suburbs after seven long years of fight. it's back under control. people here still live in fear there are checkpoints. and the secret services are never far away in the war's aftermath colors daily life ali is a civil servant he earns about sixty euros a month. not yet it. would have to make compromises everywhere
where from morocco. to the. situation that got so bad that i decided to leave the city with my children. who were so huge and father we were about to cross a bridge when one of the people accompanying us stepped on a landmine just. cannot go in but it killed him his wife. and two of my children that. i'm a little over the logic of is that in about forty my daughter was ten years old. but there was the shrapnel killed her instantly woman does i have the look on her brother was just two and a half what with me and they were walking hand in hand at the time that i was most of them at he was killed. or janet who are. i have two children left in us mahmoud is nine years old. and my other son
a six. oh the phenomenal success and a lot. of jobar and eastern suburb of damascus was the front line for months now it's rubble a testimony to the horrors of the syrian war it reveals a powerless europe's failure to stop the united states russia iran saudi arabia and turkey from reigniting the war time and again. supporters of assad's regime. and their cult of death. hezbollah fighters and their martyrs have become part of damascus scenery.
as have those of their sworn enemies israel and the us. the marketplaces and souvenir shops also offer new wares. its all sounds way of thanking flattery or putin for saving his regime. they had jhana shelter near damascus for displaced persons from the raya. they're safe now but they will spend the rest of their lives as victims of the war. three hundred families found shelter here including children who have never known peace. tinsmith mohamed habib and his family also live here. or. i don't have any work right now sometimes something comes through but most of the
time i just sit around. and of course we need many things we can offer the children or things they want the biggest problem is that we aren't allowed to leave we don't have any papers as they took away our i.d.'s without them we can't go anywhere. in mamma mia. their daughter jasmine has just one wish. no want to leave here but those who do manage to leave aren't always welcome back like disillusioned palestinians radicalized syrian refugees have become fresh fuel for the raging conflict in the middle east. will iran be the next country after syria to spiral into war the us has been openly threatening the islamic republic for three years iran's population has been waiting
for the nuclear deal it struck with international superpowers to start paying off but so far the european investments are nowhere in sight three years ago we met oil worker in man and his wife neda back then many in iran were hoping for a better life. style that's up by the day it comes down at the present because the value of iranian money. comes down against the dollars american dollars it's difficult for us then to get him to stop short and making ends meet has really tough. matches even though my husband has such a hard job and we both money we can get by. is that our expenses are just too high places and they said about a staff that. i do think if we get better though. i hope. we hope we hope to. be of help to. get. a
of the look in a career i saw. you say that this is important if it wasn't important they wouldn't kill them. many in europe consider president rouhani to be a new ray of hope but now he's under pressure from two sides the people want to see positive results from the nuclear deal while his conservative opponents are taking advantage of the crisis his rivals are the ones actually holding power the latest election so many reformists enter parliament but the military and courts still belong to the hardliners even friends of the president must fear repression. that. the lost power is based on the country's oil richness we went back to visit him on jo-jo easy at his workplace in the
persian gulf it's risky in light of years of economic sanctions helicopters and airplanes are more prone to crash. the u.s. policies are hitting iran's oil production particularly hard although. iran was able to improve its sales over the past years their refineries are in a disastrous state they're in urgent need of foreign investment. traces of the iraqi bombing campaign from the one nine hundred eighty s. can still be seen today will the trumpet administration start the bombing again can the e.u. do anything better than just wait and see. the wealthy move us aren't as affected by international pressure. it hurts simple iranians like him on judge i.e. much more it's gotten harder and harder for him to plan his future his country has been in a state of emergency since his birth. i love
a fight i probably. have a problem. our president. but yes i get and that is. far i. have. many and iran are proud that differing opinions can still be published in their country but freedom of the press isn't that well protected throughout europe any more. march fifteenth is a hungary a national holiday commemorating the fallen heroes of the rebellion against the habsburg monarchy in eight hundred forty eight picture or bun uses the celebrations as a platform to promote himself and his feet as party his rhetoric is inflammatory it sounds as if hungary is on the brink of war i and you could only me.
he soon we stand on one side with those who believe in nation states the protection of borders and the value of family and work you don't were opposed by those who want an open society who want a world without borders or nations and new types of families devalued work and cheap labor ruled by an army of inscrutable bureaucrats who can not be held responsible but let little go back should i go. his message is clear hungary is in danger but as long as his party stays in power he can keep that danger at bay and his country safe his propaganda is affected. we don't want refugees here. we've seen what happens at night no matter where they end up in europe. looked at me and then we don't want to live the way they do in vienna our government is trying to resist this migration insanity laws.
never anything. that i feel safe and secure here i don't have to keep looking over my shoulder to make sure i'm not about to be attacked. but western europe stuff like that happens all the time over there i don't. and strangely enough nobody's ever allowed to talk about it to me and now a common enemy unites people this particular enemy is hungry an american billionaire george soros or bonds government has cast him as a model for how illegal migration can threaten hungary and heritage their hearts we will fight against everything that the imperial of george soros is doing to hungary and is planning to do this is our life our home we have no other that's why we will fight for it to our last breath we won't ever give up sure hope i. always fall against some kind of enemy in one nine hundred eighty nine it was the
calvinism and the upcoming. liberalism. i am after they come with the migration now the united nations everybody. not a fan of politics. n.g.o.s that soros supports are being harassed like amnesty international not long ago legislation was passed that made it much harder for n.g.o.s to operate in hungary aiding refugees is now punishable by law and that's why do you really look at automatically n.-g. o. law fits neatly into or bans illiberal democracy that tries to silence those who don't want to live in such a democracy. government has been combating independent civil society for five years with varying intensity hearts but without stopping. i or bones goal is to preserve his power so he can continue
ruling as he pleases he and his party control everything in hungary and have created and illiberal state in which he controls all checks and balances himself governing with no resistance government officials. it's the will of the people checks and balances the checks and balances are as strong as ever or even stronger it's true the first eight years we were in power we had the opportunity to nominate and elect a number of people. but hungary's majority leans to the conservative side. and our constitutional bodies can independently come to free and good decisions that aren't unlawful. for you because. we're visiting the private studio of here t.v. or news t.v. ever since the broadcasters owner fell out with viktor orbán reporting has become
critical toward the government and since reporting has become critical politicians have stopped visiting the studio. interview requests are simply ignored politically independent and critical media have no place in illiberal democracy government critique is not welcome i'm meeting professor of national audubon she teaches information communication at the budapest quarter venous university she analyzed the media situation in hungary her findings were devastating she says the media landscape is mostly controlled by or bonds government. and hungary they call public television state television because it really is far from being independent public media like in western europe it's pure government propaganda. the same goes for private media which is controlled by people close to the government. and in the meantime all eighteen regional papers in the
hands of investors who are also close to the government but that. hungary celebrates its eight hundred forty eight heroes. with pomp and circumstance including a flag that is one thousand eight hundred forty eight meters long rolled out along budapest's main boulevard on the russian avenues for guns government nurtures the dream of a strong nation a superpower. whoever loves hungary must be a patriot and it follows that all patriots must support or advance party for it embodies the will of the entire nation and the party is viktor orbán. the government sees the e.u.'s insignificant nothing more than an economic grouping without shared values in budapest they consider the liberal values to be delusional the e.u. is a cash cow for aid money yes political guidance no thank you. one
of the signs reads get out or ban these students are protesting against the government's education politics they are unhappy with their curricula which they say is fraught with nationalistic conservative values students feel they're being poorly prepared to compete in the european job market. i. mean show finances the schools are poorly financed and we need a new one this is like. they need to teach content adequate for the twenty first century idea to get on each other with a bit of a motto idea problem is that the basics are very outdated it might have been relevant two hundred years ago but not anymore hungary's you phenomenon able to compete and a mountain that's going to be a problem for the entire country. that. test results of the
program for international student assessment are alarming hungry scores are worse each year many teachers have begun advocating for a better school system. i don't get is a bit though. name some carry an educational system is controlled centrally by the state. the ministry dictates which books we teachers should order. these textbooks are usually of poor quality. i mean. the ministry also determines what must be taught. but the content is very antiquated and in some cases it's become useless. in the. hungry school system is weighed down with ideology and strict hierarchies the schools autonomy is gone budapest decides typical for bonds government. that mean it was five heads in the sense creativity
and freedom are simply not wanted in this system a solid modern school system is democratic. but that doesn't fit into an illiberal state. in the past years about six hundred thousand well educated young people turned their backs on hungry and set out to find their way elsewhere in europe jobs are particularly coveted in great britain germany and austria. thought. people skeptical of the e.u. have one target they like especially uncle americal whether in italy england or poland strange considering what a survival artist she's turned out to be while other leaders come and go she has held fast as the head of germany for over a decade. kind ments i know of no one post no learn to how experienced can change things in europe or in the world for the better especially not the chancellor of
germany and little the will of. she's looking out of the few of us need of germany for a start. and she's the strongest leader in the european union and because other e.u. leaders have been so weak in their case how has how to by default assume this leadership. in her decade of being chancellor angela merkel has shown many faces hesitant indecisive lacking courage. then she became the crisis manager and europe's cold hearted treasurer old german clichés of german dominance started to reawaken. when refugees began arriving her image changed again overnight merkel became the beacon of hope for people in need. it would feel intimate two and a half years later in the german bundestag obeid feel a whole europe faces a number of challenges how to deal with migration could become the one that decides the fate of the european union when. germany once so reliable has started to falter
old. undies are disappearing for anglo-american two for years she tried to wrestle vladimir putin into a solution for the crimean peninsula and ukraine with the arrival of donald trump her transatlantic partner in the white house has become an unpredictable opponent those two represent old and new leaders who want to weaken germany and a weak union. thug russian political satire meets game design is outliving next with the help of a game engine and modern digital technology and it creates such a risk taking place. satire goes russian on t.w. . clever. courageous. shift.
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