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And thats because he wants to use ukraine partly to save his own job. so there are all kinds of factors playing into this at the moment. but the fundamental one, i think, is no—one knows for sure — maybe putin doesnt — whether he is going to try and move into ukraine. and i think no—one knows for sure that if he were to do that, precisely how the west, the us — obviously, crucially — but others will respond. germany, stefanie, is particularly exposed on this because of its energy dep...

Is the pivotal figure in organising the wests response, not biden — and thats because he wants to use ukraine partly to save his own job. so there are all kinds of factors playing into this at the moment. but the fundamental one, i think, is no—one knows for sure — maybe putin doesnt — whether he is going to try and move into ukraine. and i think no—one knows for sure that if he were to do that, precisely how the west, the us — obviously, crucially — but others will respond. german...