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But youve got to think that that itself, were there a pardon dangle, is subject of muellers inquiries as well. >> i would think hed want to know. i have to say in terms of this trial though, there is one loser, which is the american public. this is what we would have seen if this were to go to trial is actually a much more public outlay of evidence that much more closely ties the campaign to russian conspiracy. >> norm, final question to you on this question of the sort of the pardon or the spec...