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I knew him. >> lets talk about the relationship between richard matt and david sweat. did you see one as more of the ring leader if you will one as the leader and the other as a follower? >> yes, david sweat was actually very smart, articulate when you spoke to him, you would not guess he was in there for a murder es pebbly a murder of a law enforcement officer. richard matt was more of the like crazy -- he was a crazier person than dave. so one was probably the brains one was probably the brawn...