need very important. and to do that, we need support from our partners and allies. need support from our partners and allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course. . . . , allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course. . . ., , allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course. . . . , , . allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course. . . ., , . , . allies, mainly the eu and nato, of course. . . , . , . . course. poland has been a bit of a rebel member course. poland has been a bit of a rebel member of course. poland has been a bit of a rebel member of the course. poland has been a bit of a rebel member of the european i course. poland has been a bit of a i rebel member of the european union. all sorts of disagreements with them over the independence that my clinic that s more of a family dispute. 0k, a family dispute, and they have been withholding funds. applause i don t know what they are clapping for a way agree with you, me, the fact is they bee
minister, on the program yesterday. he told us that a zero covid strategy simply doesn t work. certainly here in the uk. what would you say in response? i think it would have been difficult and the uk two years ago. to get cases completely down to zero. and then keep them at zero. but other parts of the world have managed. i think singapore and new zealand are great examples of how zero covid can save lies in the short term. but then you have to plan to move away from it. and in china the difference is there s no exit strategy. the strategy is zero covid until further notice. and that will pose problems. because the impact of the zero covid policy will just keep getting bigger and bigger. okay, great to talk to you. thank you so much indeed for your expertise. much appreciated. just hearing from the turkish leader rcep erdogan. he says negotiations and istanbul, where the negotiations for ukraine are
have said on your show, in effect, what biden and the west has to do is tell putin, look, we are not going to let you win this war. so you should start figuring out an exit strategy. the no-fly zone, which has often been discussed, a no-fly zone is an act of war. you have to be prepared to shoot down the airplanes of the russians. that would catapult us into a war. there are other strong things that you can do, which we have debated about whether to give mig-25 planes to ukraine. i would support us being stronger in terms of offensive and defensive weapons we provide ukraine, but that, too, is also a tricky thing to talk about. there s talking about it with the american people, then there s what president biden did in his speech, which is speaking directly to the russian people, saying they are not our enemy. i m wondering, why was that message to russians so
left behind in the cities, alex. cal perry, as always, thank you so much for that morning. boarding us now is been, rhodes former deputy national to obama and national political analyst. he is the author of after the fall, being american in the world we made. a crushing book as far as where we are right, now ben. let me first future reaction to this latest news about the russians may be moving their forces to donbas and not focusing as much on kyiv. and other major cities. i think a lot of us in the west, and probably certainly in ukraine, are desperate to see the outlines of an off ramp for putin and an end to all of this. how much should we take heart in this latest intelligence that maybe russia is moving away from a broader offensive in ukraine and beginning to think about an exit strategy? t well, it s potentially positive with some really big caveats. alex, at the beginning of this war, there s always a question of, well, what is russia s
when are open to looking at reality, he gave a long speech to russian people before he invaded. he has a lifetime of saying same things, said greatest disaster of 20th century was the collapse of soviet union. he is committed to reestablishing the russian tradition, ukraine is a key part of russia. i think he has been shocked because the ukrainians slowed down, and someplace defeated the russian army. i think he thought they would collapse, it not clear he could ever occupy all of ukraine. and yet, i think he can t figure out an exit strategy, he is out on a limb. i think that the job, this is the crisis of western democracy. if we don t have the guts to