refuse to share information about the islamic state with the united states. and official telling the post that trump "revealed more information to the russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies." nbc news has not confirmed the reports about the meeting. roughly an hour ago national security adviser h.r. mcmaster emerged from the white house to offer this denial. >> there's nothing that the president takes more seriously than the security of the american people. this story that came out tonight as reported is false. the president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation. at no time -- at no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed and the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. two other senior officials who are present, including the secretary of state remember the
meeting the same way and have said that. their on the record accounts should out weigh those of anonymous sources. i was in the room, it didn't happen. >> joining me now, white house correspondent kristin walker, what's your reaction to that denial, the sort of official on the record denial from h.r. mcmaster? >> well, the national security adviser h.r. mcmaster, is effectively parsoned his words, chris. you heard him say that at no time did the president compromise or share classified information about sources or methods, that's not what's in the washington post report. the washington post report deals with classified information that was given by an ally. i can tell you that i was just talking to a top press official here and tried to press this person for clarity, the response i got was that the white house has no further reaction to this report. i can tell you, though, top officials are huddled here behind the scenes in their offices trying to determine what the next steps are. this is, obviously, a bomb shell
no further information this evening. i can tell you we're going to continue to try to get clarification. again, the national security adviser did not directly dispute what is the washington post report, kristin. >> joining me now is congressman, member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, your reaction to the news. >> good evening, chris. you know, the cost of the president's ties to russia cannot be our national security. if this story is true, i'm afraid that's a price we may pay. you know, if true, the president divulged to a foreign adversary, russia not being our friend, potentially classified information that could put at risk american lives. i think the administration should come to congress this week, tell us exactly what was shared because only the russian press was allowed in, not our own national press. also tell us, just what can we expect going forward staas far sharing information with russia. this defies all traditions of
how we treat foreign adversary ris. >> the argumentment i've seen, paul ryan, i believe, senator rich, john mccain, a few others, there's nothing illegal here because the president has invested in his executive authority, unilateral ability to say anything he wants, what's your response to that? >> again, now, chris, if the cost, though, is that american troops or american lives are put at risk, you know, that bad judgment effects all of us, whether we're talking about committing a crime or not. so -- also, chris, this is a moment now for congress to really exercise the check that we have on the presidency. so this week, we'll be calling for a vote to have an independent commission. and the judiciary committee where i serve, we'll be pressing forward to have special counsel appointed to investigate trump's ties to russia. my colleague, elliot ingle and i have introduced regulation, essentially a freeze on anything
that would help russia until the fbi's investigation is complete. we shouldn't act as if we are. >> there's been a lot of commentary on your leagcolleagu across the aisle, folks from the republican party, who don't seem moved by the revelations from the last week, from the yates testimony, to the comey firing, to the president under cutting the own accounts why he did it, admitting that it was tied to the russian investigation. do you've got a sense, privately, from him, their conversation is more concerned about this than they're letting on. do they feel like he's the president and he's the republican and we're going to ride with them. >> eve had a number of conversations in the past week since the firing of james comey about the need to join forces with democrats to have an independent commission. we've got one additional republican, i've showed it last week and came forward. i hope that others have the
urgency to move. because, in our democracy, the integrity of free and fair elections and making sure we understand the ties to russia is counting on it. >> what is your reaction to the fact that we're now looking at the possible mishandling of classified information, carelessness, when that particular critique was, essentially, the core substance of the case against hillary clinton as prosecuted by the current president of the united states. >> that's right. and there seems to be a tweet from donald trump in the past that is contradicted by the current donald trump every time he opens his mouth or every time he acts, these days. you know, as you pointed out, chris, he's the declassifier, if he says something, it's declassified, that doesn't mean that's not bad judgment, it doesn't mean that back in congress we're powerless to hold him accountable. now is the time for republicans
and democrats to really assert our first, you know, our article i, i think, jurisdiction and make sure this president doesn't put any american lives at risk. >> joining me now, nbc contributor, former assistant director, former deputy assistant secretary of state. this is pretty remarkable, if this story bears out and someone who worked in counter intelligence, what's your reaction? >> i'm trying to be objective about this, i simply can't. i mean, there are two rules that i followed and there's trust i had in my case officers, that was my identity and they would do everything to protect me. if you were that terrorist organization and you put two and two together you're going to roll up the people that access and put a bullet in the back of their head. in short, i don't know what we gained by giving this
questions about this. put these points together. this is all happening, the remarkable span of 24 hours, president fires james comey he has a meeting in which he's not in the read out and does not allow american photographers in with the russian official who is sort of also russian media is in, which is how he learned of them and they're talking, apparently, divulging classified information, all this in 24 hours. >> chris, i mean, from that read out and from everything that's been reported, i don't know what the russians gave us. i don't know if anything was obtained. i don't know of any objective, whether it be with syria, but what we do know now is that potentially classified information that could have compromised. when we say sources and methods, let's be clear about this. these are human collectors, these are people designed to infiltrate and spy on that. so we've compromised for what, exactly. i have not heard of anything
that came out of that meeting that was substantive other than grip. the russians walked away with something pretty big here. >> thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> coming up, more on tonight's breaking news and lingering question surrounding president's firing of fbi director james comey, he joins me after this two-minute break. for these pareg around was the only way to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked... customer: we can't drive this car. tech: ...they wanted it fixed right. so they scheduled with safelite. our exclusive trueseal technology means a strong, reliable bond, every time. at safelite, we stand behind our work. bye, bye. because the ones you love, sit behind it. (parents whisper jingle) safelite repair, safelite replace. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car?
whether he will turn them over to congress if they exist. >> clear last week that the president has nothing further on that. >> does that mean that the president will deny. >> i've said, i'm very clear, the president will have nothing further on that. >> i understand. alexis, i made it clear what the president's issue is on that issue. >> why won't you explain whether or not there are reportings. >> the president has made it clear what the position is. >> i understand that. that's what the president's position is. >> given that you refusing to confirm or deny any of this. >> the president has made it clear what his position is. >> american people are not happy with the president's decision to fire the man investigating his campaign ties to russia. 29% of americans approve, 38% disapprove of the firing. they don't trust congress to investigate the possible trump/russia connection. asked if they would have a,
congress, or b independent commission special prosecutor, just 15% say congress, while 78% support independent commission or special prosecutor, something the white house insist is not necessary. president has repeatedly pointed to testimony national intelligence james clapper argue there's no evidence collusion, he said in his testimony shows no such thing. and added a scathing indictment of the man in the oval office. >> i think in many ways our institutions are under assault, both externally and that's the big news here, russian interference in our election system. and i think, as well, our institutions are under assault internally. >> internally from the president? >> exactly. >> joining me now congressman from texas what was called for the impeachment of the president. congressman, what is your case for impeachment? >> chris if i may, thank you for allowing me on.
i would like to make my point quickly, i heard your story, for someone to make the argument that it wasn't illegal causes me a good deal of concern. it was wrong and at some point we have to focus on the fact that a lot of wrong things are taking place. yes, the president is above the law as it relates to super secret information being revealed, but it was just wrong. now, my case from impeachment is this, first american people have to understand what impeachment is. impeachment does not mean that the president will be removed from office. it is merely the charging of the president in the house of representatives. it's similar to an indictment, not the same but similar to. once these charges are filed against the president, if the president is, in fact, impeached, then it goes to the senate and the senate will have a trial and then the president may be convicted and may be removed from office. but impeachment is all about having the president charged in
the house. it is my belief, and i believe it sincerely, that the president has obstructed justice. the president fired the person who was investigating him and after he fired the person who was investigating him, he revealed that he was considering the reason that he was being investigated when he fired the person. then he goes on to tweet, what might be intimidating words or threatening language, such that all of this combined causes me to conclude that the president should be impeached, constitution allows it. we ought to engage in the process. >> there are a lot of questions about the question of tapes, which become quite germane, particularly in the context of everything that's been happening. whether it's the discussion with comey at dinner, whether it was purportedly said in this meeting. there's a certain attentiveness
to this. they want to see tapes. do you think congress will be able to get its hands on those tapes if they exist? >> well, if he's impeached, we will. and impeachment really is going to depend upon the american people. this is a participate ory democracy. this is a time for american people to weigh in. if the american people will simply say to the representatives and congress that they want impeachment, it can happen. it's not impossible and, yes, the tapes should be brought forth. i believe that there are other means by which we can acquire them, a proper -- pardon me, committee that is investigating can subpoena those tapes, that's the kind of evidence that can be subpoenaed. i think the president might try to exert executive privilege. but i believe there are constitutional scholars on both sides of this and i come down with those who say that sort of evidence should be made
available if a proper investigation is taking place. if there is impeachment taking place, i am absolutely confident that we'll get those tapes. and we need those tapes. we need to know what was said so that we can understand better the level of intimidation that may have been taken place. >> we don't know if the tapes exist as of yet. we do know the white house denies it. >> i think we should assume they exist because the president has given us reason to believe so and until he denies the existence, we should assume that they do. >> that's a fair characterization. thank you for your time. speaking of constitutional scholars, joining me now is opinion piece in the washington post that's titled "trump must be impeached here is why." professor, there are two things that have happened now in the past week, the firing of james comey and the washington post story tonight about the president sharing highly sensitive classified information. defense of the president in both cases are that what he did was
within his powers, within his article power, two powers the president, he can declassify anything he wants and he can fire the fbi director for cause or no cause. what say you to those this is within his authority. you may not like it. but he's acting lawfully. >> the main thing i say with great power comes great responsibility. i think that was aligned from super man or batman. we have a president who exercises his power, not with responsibility, but to cover himself and to make himself more wealthy. take the example of the firing of comey, of course he has the fire to power, i have the power to give $100 to detective investigating me for the police department. but if i say i'll give you that $100 if you stop investigating me or if i even hint that, then
i'm committing some kind of bribery, basically, that's what the president did. even by his own account of what happened at that dinner. whether there are tapes or not, let's face it. the reality is that from the first day that donald trump was president, he was already violating the constitution because he was violating the provisions that say that you cannot have sources of wealth and influence coming from foreign governments. the basic reason they put that in there is because we, as a nation, don't know what the motive of the president is when he does something nice for foreign government. is he doing it just as your prior speaker said to get something good for the american people in return or is he doing it to, basically, on a cya basis, to protect himself and to
make himself more wealthy, the more we learn about the russian connection, the more we need to look into that. now, i agree with congressman green, we need to start investigating, and that is what it means to open an impeachment inquiry in the house. >> it strikes me the sort of deep question here, is whether and how the law applies to the president. it seems to be one of the things that i'm sort of slowly learning. is that impeachment is the remedy. the president can't -- >> it is the remedy. >> the president can't be tried by the -- u.s. attorney for the southern district for violating some part of the federal criminal code in the famous law experiment of shooting a gun on fifth avenue. i mean, impeachment is the remedy and political remedy more than a judicial one and that seems to be the kind of bedrock issue here, right? >> exactly. the whole point is if the president is as casual about the law as he appears to be, if he's as reckless about our national
secrets, if he is so reckless about, basically, offering to keep a guy on the job if only he'll layoff and not look at the truth, then we can't indict the president criminally for bribery oar for witness intimidation, those remedies are unavailable. the only remedy is the political one and the way you get that political one started is for the house of representatives to begin issuing subpoenas and conducting impeachment investigation. and when a lot of my e-mails said, this is too soon, my immediate reaction is, what are you waiting for? with every passing day this guy is a loose cannon threatens the national security. we cannot afford to let this go on, without at least starting the process of digging into the nature of the abu ssive power he
and what the president is gaining. this amazing love affair with our adversary, the russians is explainable with what one of the president's sons said not long ago. we don't need money from american banks, we get all our money from the russians. >> we're going to be talking about that just a little bit in the show. thank you for your time tonight. coming up, good president trump's resistance could have less to collusion and more what might be uncovered about his businesses along the way. new reporting on that ahead. ♪ when it comes to heartburn... trust the brand doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the #1 choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. for all day and all night protection... banish the burn... with nexium 24hr. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over.
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republican senator is responding to the tonight. saying the white house needs to get itself under control, quote in here. obviously, they're in a downward spiral right now and they've got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening. if you believe my next guest, the president couldn't get much worse as quickly as they begin to follow trump's money back to russia. that's next, don't go anywhere. e i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people's lives. that helps me to keep going to cure this. my great great grandfather lived to be 118 years old. i've heard many stories from patients and their physicians about what they are going through. i often told people "oh i'm going to easily live to be 100" and, uh, it looks like i might not make it to retirement age.
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regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey. i said to myself, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story, it's an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> when donald trump admitted that this russia thing is what he was thinking about when he fired fbi director, it fuelled speculation about why he keeps acting like he's covering up something. well, tonight, there's a new contender in the clubhouse. adam davidson joins me now. i like what you wrote. the question you get, if there's nothing there to the possibility of collusion with russia, then what could possibly explain the behavior that seems to be taking every possible action to cover it up.
you present some -- compelling theory, what is it? >> my theory is -- well, the evidence is that -- sometimes from trump's own words is that for a very long time, for decades, but possibly heating up in the last 10, 15 years the trump organization did some fairly shady business with some fairly shady characters around the world. we certainly know from my own reporting and other people's reportings, that he has done business deals with some of the most corrupt folks in some of the most corrupt parts of the world. donald trump himself on cnbc said that the only way to do business around the world was to pay bribes so that would open up -- and and practices act violation, we know the trump organization was incredibly weak on its money laundering trying
to avoid money laundering, casinos, as well as some real estate projects, casinos and real estate being two of the main ways money is laundered around the world. there is a kind of grand theory that there was some deep collusion between trump and putin and trump associates and putin, who knows. we know for sure that this is a company that really tried to hue as close to the line. >> right. >> between legality and ill legality for a long time. >> you did amazing reporting of hotel project where it seemed to be based on your reporting and possibly comlicit in the money laundering scheme. the treasury department is going to hand over documents to the senate committee and what possible threat that could spell for the trump work. >> this to me was possibly the
most important last news last week, even more than the comey firing. they have enforcement network. it's kind of like the fbi of the treasury department. and every single day they collect something called suspicious activity reports from banks, casinos, all sorts of financial institutions all around the country and around the world. and this is part of a global consortium of hundreds of agencies like this. these are just -- they just form a repository, someone called it the google of financial crime, until someone starts investigating. now, five years ago, eight years ago, trump organization was a relatively small player in new york real estate, global real estate, there's no reason to think anyone could have gone looking. once they start searching the reports, they have the potential of really building a global historical map of the trump organization, where money came from, was it money laundering, was it other shady practices.
then you can easily imagine trump staffers, family members being explored for criminal behavior. they have none of the immunities that the president himself has. >> right. you can imagine that the people around president, president himself thinking, even again, bracketing for a second the facts of what happened with you shall sha which we still don't know, but even if there's nothing there, just the thought of someone who is truly independent investigating the many operation of the trump is going to expose us to some serious possible potential liability that i do not want to happen. >> when i walked through what we know now, what is publicly known, what trump himself has admitted to with lawyers, they said, this is enormously risky from a legal standpoint. this is the kind of stuff that businesses just don't do in america. they're a real out liar. so, yes, i don't know for a fact that anyone in the trump organization ever committed a crime. but certainly did a lot of
things of people who do commit crimes do and i think it will keep people busy. a lot of this is in jurisdictions outside of the department of justice, new york, miami, other countries in the world. so we could easily imagine investigators from other jurisdictions investigating. >> thank you. thank you for great reporting, really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> unsettling report on how this president gets his news. including printed out a internet hoax and gave it to the president. thing one, thing two, next. ♪
>> don't wait, particularly, if you're suffering from any symptoms, whether it's nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, seek medical attention immediately. >> the active ingredient is reported to cause severe neuro toxic symptoms in humans if touched, inhaled or eaten. >> the chemical on that pesticide was banned from household use over a decade ago. under the direction of president obama, they were on track to ban agri cultural earlier this year. and we know of one person with a special pen who is pretty happy about that. >> should i give this pen to andrew? i think, maybe, right. [ applause ] >> the trump administration and dangerous chemical that is still in use, that's thing two, in 60 seconds. you too, unnecessary er visits.
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the epa made headlines in march owned the scientific findings and decided not to ban an insecticide that uses a poisonous chemical. among farm workers and young children. a month later the chemical poisoned a bunch of farm workers who reported nausea and vomiting. it sells about 5 million pounds. it donated $1 million to trump's inauguration funds and sent letters asking them to ignore studies that say their products threaten endangered species. we don't know how the trump administration will respond to those letters. their ceo andrew knows just the man to write to if they run into problems. >> should i give this pen to andrew, douw chemical.
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the president's doctor once predicted his patient would be "the healthiest individual elected to presidency." there are several reasons we believe that may not be accurate, not only is the president the oldest one ever, he has a thing for fast food. here he was eating kfc. we learned, the president gets two scoops of ice cream with his chocolate cream pie instead of the single scoop for everyone else. he plays an awful lot of golf making 21 golf course visits thus far, the president is apparently not a big fan of exercise as the washington post reported this weekend, according to recent new yorker, other than golf he considers it misguided arguing a person like a battery is burn with finite amount of energy. trump believed the human body was like a battery with a finite amount of energy which exercise only depleted, so he didn't work
out. the president told "new york times" magazine in 2015, all my friends who work out all the time, they're going in for knee replacements and hip replacements. he stands in front of an audience for an hour that's exercise. now everyone has got their host includ included, but not everyone is the president of the united states. new report sheds light on where the president is getting his information and that's coming up next. i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had.
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the president of the united states is getting fake flies his own senior white house state of according to a new report out today. political reports that deputy national security advisory mac far inland fox news talking head gave the president a printout of two-time magazine covers one supposedly from the '70s warning of an ice age, according to four white house officials familiar with the matter. the president got lathered up about the hypocrisy. there was one glaring problem. one of thosetime covers was a fake. this image appears to be what mcfarland shared with the president. it's an online hoax that's circulating for years. this was the real cover from 2007. fortunately other staff were able to chase down the truth and intervene before trump tweeted or talked publicly about it.
i'm joined by rick wilson. michael, there's a nexus between story on the and the "washington post" and the president talking russian officials about classified information which is a lack of discipline in this white house, what comes in and goes out. nothing is being controlled. how important is that for a president. >> it's so important. and it starts we chief of staff office. he's the gatekeeper and the one that is the force that will allow something to get to the president's desk or block it. in that ploitco story they talked about rhinoceros telling everybody stop going around me and just giving the president stuff that you want him to have. that is vitally important because when you have a president that takes that kind of information and just absorbs it immediately whether it's fake or real or true or not, and then goes out and retweets it, it
becomes a problem. >> and rick, it strikes me that's why the story in "the washington post" tonight is so plausible because the lack of discipline has been demonstrated publicly time and time again whether it's about things he retweets or things he tweets or says on the australia that aren't true. tas plausible story he's in a conversation and talks about things that are classified because we know that this is not a particularly disciplined operation. >> my friend smielk exactly correct. the chief of staff would be the one person you would rely on in a normal white house to control the flow of information to the president and to make sure the president knew where the lanes were when he's dealing with other people, whether it's a domestic matter or diplomatic matter that he knows what the parameters are. because there's no one in control of the white house except donald trump's egoand no one in control he want his impulses of the moment, the fire
hose of bizarre outlandish stories that donald trump is handed by his pack of lunatic aides and misfit toys, these guys are putting stuff in front of him. trump goes out and says whatever is put in front of him. it's like ron burgundy. he'll read whatever's on the prompter. >> to rick and michael's point, you could put this on the feet of rhinoceros, but the president himself has created a structure where all the normal channels put in place for specific reasons about restricting access to the president, who gets to go in the room, how he's scheduled, it's been thrown out the window by the president. the office doors are open. anyone can come in and stick a memo in. >> i think that's probably the biggest underlying story here is the extent to which the president has totally up ended the normal channels for him to
receive information. remember, the parallel to trump receiving a fake internet hoax, "time" magazine cover is he seems to be paying little attention to the intelligence information he's receiving. the news from tonight and over previous weeks has been incredibly disheartening to members of the community because they feel like he doesn't take their work seriously. like he has this open door oval office policy, but at the same time he's willing to get into trouble with russian officials in a way that will likely make it harder for american intelligence foishlz work with our partners to gather vital intelligence. it's two sides of the same story here, and that's something that's dorng folks in the intel community. >> michael, here's bob corker talking about the downward spiral. thoofrm frto hear that from a
republican. >> obviously they're a in a downward spiral right now and have got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening. the chaos that is being created by the lack of discipline is creating an environment that, i think, makes -- it creates a worrisome environment. >> michael, you can't help but note that carelessness and recklessness were the core of the case of hillary clinton, particularly the e-mails. that there was a lack of compare that was exercised that she should have known better that things before flying around and they didn't know who was going on. look what's happening in this white house. >> actually, there were telltale signs of this on the republican side, and folks just chose to ignore it. all of this how did we get here
moment, particularly in this area, it's phony at this point because you saw the signs, they were there. he told you who he was. to expect a 70 year old man who built an enterprise around media, a cult personality, it's going to change that, it's not going to happen. and here we are >> yeah. >> and rick, that was the case, right? that was case of the folks that were in this sort of never trump camp. and the question here to me, i ask this question of someone last week, and i want to hear it from you. i watch all this happen and i think of the "access hollywood" 48 hours and i remember omega he's toast and obviously he's going to lose and there were republicans who jumped off the train and, frankly, paid the price for it. and i just wonder how much that is in the calculations made by congressional republicans while these stories are coming out. >> bob corker's been a steady supporter of the president.
this is like an iceberg. you're seeing the tip where he's nervous about this. under the waterline, these guys are in a raging panic right now. they recognize that at any moment donald trump can finally snap and run down pennsylvania avenue in a gold speedo and these guys are going to be held responsible for his crazy actions. they're very nervous right now. they fare the criminal liability is ridesing. he puts his head in the noose every single day. it's not a place for people who are very sanguine right now about donald trump. >> is that our sense that the temperature on capitol hill? >> yeah, certainly. skplil throughout the federal agencies within the intel community, within the justice department, you name it, right? i've been getting texts from sources this evening that have a lot of bad words in them. the anxiety level is pretty high.
hallie jackson, thank you. right now on msnbc, tale of the tapes. lawmakers from both sides of the aisle call for president trump to turn over any recordings he may have of his krfrgconversati with ousted fbi director james comey. plus, recording history. new reports say president trump has for a long time secretly recorded phone conversations when he was in private business. the reporter who broke the story will tell us what the president's former associates say and what it could mean for staffers now. and breaking right now, cyber chaos. the largest cyber attack ever is spreading by the minute, stealing information and demanding ransom from hundreds of thousands of users across more than 150 countries. what you need to do to protect yourself. good morning, everyone. i'm chris jansing in beautiful washington, d.c. this morning, democrats are ratcheting up their pressure on president trump on not one but two fronts. for starters, demanding any takes the president may have of
last week was regarded the worst of the presidency, and now a series of polls show new lows and approval ratings for president trump. any reaction there to what has been an onslaught of criticisms, frankly for both sides of the aisle? >> reporter: yeah, the polls to which you refer to show his approval rating below 40%, 54% of americans disapproving the president's handling of his job, his responsibilities as president of the united states. what is striking is the numbers are not too far removed from where the unfavorable numbers were on election day. last year the president and his allies are quick to point this out as well, but be fair, the president is not focusing on the negative headlines. doing what is best publicly to ignore issues regarding his comments about the tape. sean spicer we heard last week say frankly they had nothing nothing further about it. he'll face other questions as democrats try to make an issue out of this right now. widely the administration is
focusing on what they view a potential president. the president's first foreign trip heading overseas later this week, departure scheduled for friday, this is an opportunity to show they can successfully execute on the significant issue of great significance, given the fact it will be on the world stage, they view this as a unique, quote, global moment, as described to us. whetherist? >> and in the meantime, even before he leaves for that big trip, we may hear about a new fbi director, eight candidates we are interviewed over the weekend by attorney general jeff sessions and deputy attorney general jeff rosenstein, what do we hear could happen before he gets on air force one. >> reporter: it seems unlikely they will get this done over the course of the next five days before he departs. of the eight interviews conducted by the attorney general and the deputy attorney general, president trump has not participated in any of the in-person interviews to take place. he'll likely only be involved with interviewing in person,
some of the finalists, whenever that may or may not occur. though the president himself said he expects this will be a, quote, fast decision that could come before the end of this week. you showed some of the names. we heard from the group, the association that represents current and former fbi agents, they are putting their efforts behind the former congressman, mike rogers, formally the chair of the house intelligence committee, also a former special agent with the fbi. they believe he would be the best pick, andrew mccabe, the acting fbi director at the moment. what is striking is you have eight politicians, senator john cornyn, excuse me, of texas, a big trump supporter, lindsey graham, another republican, saying under different circumstances that would be a good pick, but right now the president should go with someone who is not a partisan politician. chris? >> peter alexander at the white house, thanks to you. over to mike baquero there at
capitol hill now, donald trump posted, james comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. and it seems democrats and republicans agree if there are tapes, the president should turn them over. what can you tell us about where congress is on this right now? >> well, chris, it's the latest time the president's tweets have put the president in a position, where you talk aut tapes and recordings harkening back to water gate. we have heard from aumber of republicans very unseizure wieae tweets, including a couple on the sunday shows, when asked, if, in fact, president trump should be turning over many of the tape recordings, if they exist. >> if there are any tapes, they have to be turned over. you can't be cued about tapes. >> if there are such recordings, i think that be subpoenaed and probably have to turn them over. >> i've asked to make sure the tapes are preserved if they
or high profile items or controversial items, we'll see these time and time again, whether it be health care or the republicans looking into the russian meddling or work in tandem with what is already going on in the senate intelligence committee. incidentally, rod rosenstein was invited by mitch mcconnell to brief all senators in a closed-door session about the progress of the investigation on the fbi side. no date yet set for that. chris? >> mike baquero, thank you for that. let's bring in mark fisher, co-author of the biography "trump revealed." also joining us, white house correspondent for reuters, aisha rasco and mike schmidt. you have been talking about
visiting with donald trump. >> so he didn't push a button, he didn't pick up the phone, everything just appeared. >> right. and he's been up front on this through the years. in fact, during the reporting for the book, he told several of my colleagues that he was recording their conversations when they were doing phone interviews with him. >> so aisha, you were talking about the calls now to turn over the tapes, are we looking at a showdown potentially here? >> well, if there are tapes, it seems like they will have pressure to actually turn them over to produce them. if they are not, then it seems like this could be a bit of an embarrassment for the white house. this is something that president trump brought up on his own. as senator graham said, he said you can't be cute about tapes. so he's going to have to, the white house is going to have to address this one way or another, you would think. >> in the meantime, michael, our new nbc news/wall street journal poll finds that just 15% think
congress should be the ones to handle the russia investigation. this other number is astonishing to me. 78% are calling for an independent commission or a special prosecutor. the question is, will there be any movement on the republican side? i don't know, those town halls where we have been seeing people sort of switching a little bit from talking about health care to getting upset about the comey firing. what are you hearing? >> well, whatever political impact there has been on the firing of comey with the russia investigation, the new details we have learned, it doesn't seem like it's enough to push the issue forward, to push the republicans to feel like they need tind po push the independe investigation. it fills out the story more about whether there was collusion with russia to actually put enough pressure on the republicans. because at this point we have learned a lot about what the government knows about this. and it's clear that they are going to hold steady and not go forward with it.
>> mark, 29% of americans approve of president trump's decision to fire comey, 38% disapprove, but 32% don't have it on their radar. what do you make of that? >> i think a lot of people in the country don't follow washington news as closely as viewers here might. and when you go out to trump rallies and talk to people, they are only tuning in sporadically. and when they tune in, they tune in because the president is achieving something they wanted in the first place. so there's a lot of controversies like this one that registers as just more washington noise, more washington backfighting, to a lot of people who are political observers. >> meantime, michael, the article that you wrote on friday continued to have reaction. you elaborated on your reporting that at that big january 27th dinner at the white house, president trump demanded essentially loyalty from then fbi director comey.
i want to play what the president said when asked about that in an interview that aired over the weekend. >> apparently "the new york times" is selling that you asked comey whether or not you had his loyalty was possible inappropriate. >> i read that article. i don't think it is inappropriate. >> did you ask that question? >> no, no, i didn't, but i don't think it would be a bad question to ask. i think loyalty to the country, loyal tty to the united states important. depends how you define loyalty. number two, i don't know how that got there. because i didn't ask that question. >> so michael, what did you think when you saw that? the president's reaction to what you wrote? >> well, you know, either the president doesn't recall what happened in that meeting or he's trying to portray his question of loyalty to a larger thing about the country. but our understanding from talking to several people that have spoken to mr. comey about this is that it was a question whether mr. comey would be loyal
to mr. trump. mr. trump came back to it two times in the meeting. and by the end of it said to mr. comey, well, do i have your honest loyalty? comey said, you have my honest loyalty but comey understood he wasn't giving loyalty to trump that trump really wanted. if you study comey, you know that trump takes loyalty extremely seriously and comey, for whatever you think about his judgment, takes his independence very seriously. so we probably should have seen this, you know, break up coming earlier than we did. >> well, mark, as someone who has studied trump, as michael wright, should we have seen this coming? and what do you make of the whole loyalty thing? >> loyalty is very important to donald trump. it always has been. he's really worked throughout his career until joining or entering the white house with a very tight inner circle of literally no more than half a dozen executives who have immediate and constant access to him. those people are -- >> he didn't get that the fbi
director has to be independent? >> no, because the way he's always worked with the tight circle of people, they have been loyal to him and he shows loyalty to them. they tend to stay with him for 20, 30 years at a time. so the idea that he's disloyal and that he just discards people is really not the case. what happens is, though, there's a second tier of people around him, and they are essentially road kill as far as he is concerned. straight out, unless you are in the inner circle, he really doesn't feel he owes a great deal of loyalty to those people. and to comey, he obviously fits in the latter category. he's not in there every day nor should he be as fbi director. >> i see where the white house is, they have the know, his aidss have to know what a bad week it is for him, do they think they can turn the page with the trip he's taking, turn the page if he names a nominee for fbi director, maybe he can get bipartisan support?
>> i think that's the idea. they will try to move forward as much as they can. that they will try to focus on this trip. the trip will give him the opportunity to be very presidential. he's going to be meeting with foreign dignitaries. so it gives them a chance to be on foreign soil and kind of get away from all the troubles they have had on u.s. soil recently. and to kind of present a more dignified image of president trump. of course, with all of this going on, the question is, how much has he been able to prepare for these meetings? how much has he been able to prepare for this trip, because that can open up another can of worms if he gets over there and there are issues. >> there have been a few diversions. ayesha rascoe, thank you, michael schmidt, appreciate it. next up, log in and lookout. right now, vicious ransomware is demanding users pay for information. we'll have tips on how to protect yourself and explain why this attack is particularly dangerous, threatening banks,
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this affected hospitals, schools and companies worldwide by encrypting the files and demanding payment to unlock them. now two versions are being detected. nbc's kelly cobiella is here. what do we know about how fast this is spreading and where? >> reporter: companies and organizations in asia have been pretty hard-hit this morning. but that may just be a question of timing. a lot of the companies and organizations were already at the end of business friday when this started spreading. so maybe a case of those booting up their computers for the first time and finding out they have been infected. now, having said that, there are some new versions of this virus coming out now, china has detected a version. they say it spreads much faster and is harder to kill than the first one we saw on friday. but so far we're not hearing about secondary waves of attacks. nothing reported in europe or
the united states, but american computers along with the rest of the world could still be at risk. the big key here is whether or not your computers or computer networks have been updated with the latest security patches from microsoft. chris? >> meantime, a researcher who is believed to have stopped the attack over the weekend is talking about how he did it. what do we know? >> reporter: yeah, it's a little bit technical when you get into the weeds about how exactly he activated this kill-switch. but he's a 22-year-old cyber security researcher. he says he first noticed the attack friday morning, didn't think much of it at first, until he saw it spreading across hospitals in england and scotland. he says he found a domain name that was linked to this malware. he registered it and noticed the virus slowed down in how quickly it was spreading. he also said, chris, that he was surprised by its lack of sophistication. he said it looked like something that someone had written in their free time, which may offer
some clues as to who may have started this. >> or how bad the security systems are in some of these places. kelly cobiella, thank you. i want to bring in a firm that specializes and preventing and investigating cyber breaches. i just want to go to what she just said, which is if it's true, that this wasn't very sophisticated, but it's having this global impact, what are the implications here? >> it doesn't need to be that sophisticated as long as it is efficient and getting the job done. i think that is probably the biggest problem is that this code doesn't need to be that complex just to do a simple test. >> that's pretty scary when you think what could happen as a result that the carmaker had to shut down. i mean, why are people looking at this and saying, this is horrible. this is the worst we have ever seen?
>> no, it's that it spreads by itself. in most previous cases, you would actually get an e-mail, you would have to click on the e-mail or click on a link and become infected. in this case, it can spread from computer to computer by itself. it doesn't need any help, doesn't need any user interaction, which makes it so dangerous. >> what do we know about where it may have come from? vladimir putin said the virus originated from u.s. intelligent services and that launching the viruses could backfire on those who created them. any indication this is from u.s. intelligence services? >> well, it's complex. no, i think he's referring to the fact that the vulnerability that he's using to spread from computer to computer was part of a release that has been allegedly tied to the u.s. intelligence service. writing the code, the malware, written and publicly released has been used to spread the malware from system to system. >> if you open your computer and
it is already there as opposed to most of us becoming pretty savvy on not opening things we don't know, what do you do to protect yourself? >> we have the ch pa, make sure you have the latest security patches. now this patch for the microsoft operative system was leased a month ago. unfortunately in the health care sector, they have system that is can't be rebooted and this patch actually requires a reboot in order to take effect. so the patching and making sure you have the patches deployed as quickly as possible is critical. without that, you'll be in a lot of trouble. >> always back up what you have, right? because doesn't it take something like this. you said also don't pay because there's a question about if you need the stuff, should you pay? >> we are not even sure yet if they are releasing files when you pay. there's been mixed reporting about that. so, yeah, not paying is two-fold. one, because if you pay, then you'll have to continue the attacks. and two, there's no guarantee that if you pay you'll get data back. >> adam myers from crowd strike,
good to see you. thank you for coming in. new turbulence if you can believe it for united airlines today. a major security breach there putting pilots and flight attendants on alert worldwide. information posted online that is having global ramifications. and any moment on capitol hill, president trump will give remarks at the national peace officer's remoral service. we'll bring that to you live. violence against police is an issue. the president discussed it this morning while signing a proclamation at the white house. >> last year 118 officers died in the line of duty. and of those, 66 were victims of malicious attacks. these attacks increased by nearly 40% from the year 2015. this must end.
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up an appeal from the state. the appeals court had struck down the law saying it was passed by the republican legislature in the words of the ruling, with almost surgical precision to discriminate against african-american and minority voters. it imposed a tough new voter i.d. photo i.d. standard. it shaved seven days off the time for early voting. the appeals court said that was pro dominantly used by african-americans. it restricted the ability to pre-register before they were old enough to vote. and if they mistakenly voted out of precinct, your vote wouldn't count. it was repealed by the naacp and the obama administration. and today the supreme court said it would not appeal to overturn the rulings. the trump administration had not signed on and taken any position one way or the other about this case. so because of the supreme court's actions, it's dead. now the one thing i would note
here, chris, is there was a bit of a change in how north carolina viewed its own law. it was passed by the republican legislature, signed by the previous governor who was a republican, but as you know, there's now a democratic governor, he and his attorney general declined to defend this law, but the republican legislature said, nonetheless, they should be able to carry on the appeal. the chief justice john roberts today said because of the blizzard of filings, it was hard to tell where it stood. and he simply noted that because the supreme court declined to hear it, it doesn't mean it was ruling on the merits. he earlier indicated he would allow an appeal or allow the state to enforce the law while it was on appeal. but the supreme court when it declines these cases, you don't get a vote, you don't get a reason for declining to hear it. but in any event, this was the final blow to that law. >> nbc justice correspondent pete williams with the big ruling from north carolina from the supreme court. thank you so much. meantime, united airlines is issuing a safety alert to pilots
and flight attendants worldwide after a major breach in security protocols. united's procedures for gaining access to the cockpit were compromised. tom costello is joining me, what have you learned? >> reporter: chris, good morning. united like airlines carefully safeguards the information about how people can gain access to the flight deck. in other words, the keyboard pads. somehow that information got out. now the airline is quickly trying to fix that problem while reiterated two its entire staff that information, that security information, is very sensitive and should never be shared. this morning united airlines insists it's not a hack, but the procedures for gaining access to the flight deck were leaked. now the airline is moving fast to shore up its procedures. that could mean reprogramming the keypads on every united cockpit door with new access codes. veteran pilot captain john cox.
>> something like this information getting in the wrong hands is something that they are dealing with very quickly. >> reporter: since 9/11, every flight deck door on every commercial aircraft has been reinforced with steel. new planes come off the assembly lines with tougher fortified doors. to gain access to the cockpit, crew members must enter a secret keypad code. and airlines have their own confidential procedures for opening the door to flight attendants while in the air. if a pilot leaves the cockpit to use the restroom, many airlines require flight attendants to block the aisle with a food cart. >> so this is on our mind all the time. we are trained to be individuvi and our procedures are to remain in constant contact with the cabin. >> reporter: in a statement, united airlines tells nbc news the safety of our customers and crew is our top priority. and united utilizes a number of measures to keep our flight deck secure beyond door access information. in the interim this protocol ensures our cockpits remain
secure. critical since the united planes take off with passengers 4,500 each day. united says its notified the faa of the security breach. there is no reason to believe according to security officials that terrorists have gained access to this information, but they simply could take no chances. chris, back to you. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you for that. in less than an hour, the ninth sir kucircuit court of ap will hear whether they should reinstate president trump's travel ban. we'll speak to the first attorney general who filed a lawsuit against the original ban. we are also watching capitol hill where donald trump will speak at the memorial for fallen officers. will he stay on script or go rogue? he's done it before. we'll have that live.
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trail. joining me is the man who filed the first appeal against this. let's go to look at what rudy giuliani said about this in the past. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete showdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> when he first announced it, he said muslim ban. he called me up and said, put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally. >> now the administration argues that the hawaii judge's ruling was, quote, fundamentally wrong. partially because the revised order does not mention religion. what is your argument? >> well, our argument from the beginning and the reasons why the court struck down the original travel ban is because the statements are relevant to determining whether or not a
motivated factor behind the original travel ban and the revised travel ban was against the muslims. you can look at the context and the principles of the words involved, and the words speak repeatly clearly about what the intent was about. >> that's the intent of the man who is now president, but this three-judge panel is made up of appointees to former president clinton. he spoke out against the climate against muslims in this country. i want to play that for you. >> tough talking realism is all about how this group is a threat, that group is a threat and another group is a threat. does it mean we shouldn't be tough on terrorism committed by islamic radicals? of course not. but it means we shouldn't go around in a blind stupor mixing apples and oranges and terrifying some of the most talented, devoted people in this country who want to make their contribution and to help make us better. >> is broader public sentiment
and former president clinton, if he's right n particular, is that relevant to this case? >> what is relevant to the case is the constitution and the motivation behind creating the original muslim ban and the revised muslim ban. and it's clear from statements by and you aired them, the president and his advisers, what they intended to do, and take my word for it, there are federal judges appointed by democratic presidents and republican presidents who agreed that the statements are relevant. >> i want to get ahead or don't want to get ahead of the ninth circuit court. but what are your feelings about it? >> the arguments based on the con con city tush will be appealing to judges of all sorts. there's a reason why president trump did not appear our victories in the federal courts of the original travel ban to
the u.s. supreme court because frankly he knew he would lose. so the arguments are good, to challenge the revised travel ban, but you're right, it will be decided by the u.s. supreme court. >> i want to ask you quickly about another topic because you were one of the 19 other attorneys, among 19 attorneys general, last week requesting the independent investigation into the russian involvement. the latest poll showed 15% of americans essentially trust congress to do this, but realistically, you know how politics works, do you see this happening? >> that's a really good question. it is certainly my hope that folks on both sides of the aisle will see if this issue transcends politics. that this is a threat to the constitutional framework. my hope is certainly that republicans in the senate and congress will come to the realization and support the effort, which is so critical right now. >> so that is your hope, but what is your expectation? >> you know, if i had to bet my life on it, i think it will happen. i think folks in congress will
recognize how fundamental this is to a threat to our framework and democracy. i spent my life working as a member of the attorney general and not of congress, but that's my expectation. >> bob ferguson, thank you so much, we appreciate it. >> thank you, appreciate it. this morning north korea says the ballistic missile can carry a large nuclear warhead following a successful launch over the weekend. check out this video of kim jong-un watching and celebrating the country's seventh test this year. the state-run news agency says kim is claiming the rocket can reach the u.s. military bases in the pacific, even the american mainland. the pentagon says the type of missile fired is not consistent with an intercontinental weapon. the u.n. security council is meeting tomorrow to discuss north korea and its missile program. still to come, a white house staff shake-up. could that be looming? a new report says president trump is looking to revamp his administration. it could affect top officials from the chief of staff reince priebus to press secretary sean
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going to fire you and replace him with sarah. >> oh, bless your heart, this is the first i've heard of that. >> get out! i have to find trump. i'm going to new york. the press interview is over! they are saying you're going to replace me with sarah. >> sean, come on, i would never do that. she doesn't have your special spice. salt and pepper. a little bit of sugar. >> melissa mccarthy and alec baldwin with their phenomenally popular take on sean spicer and president trump on "saturday night live." and though it was all for laughs on tv, there are reports that president trump is increasingly frustrated over the recent fallout stemming from the firing the of fbi director james comey and that he has been seriously considering potentially a seismic shake-up of white house staff. joining me now for the daily briefing on politic, mark murray and michael shear, white house correspondent for "the new york times." okay, mark, what do we know so far about the possibility of the white house shakeup? certainly, the name sean spicer
has been out there for months, nothing's happened yet. >> yeah, chris, according to the white house team, there's definitely smoke to all the stories that there does seem to be a mood for the shakeup. in addition to the white house, press secretary sean spicer, steve bannon, the top strategist as well as white house chief of staff reince priebus, but one really big factor to consider with all the talk is president trump's upcoming trip abroad where it is very unlikely that he would have just a wholesale of changes right before he goes on his first and biggest trip as president. and also, if you have all the people who were replaced, the question is who replaces them? right now we have seen a white house staff that there are people in place like deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders, but there aren't a whole lot of names particularly in the republican party bench who may be eager to join the white house. >> i mean, that's part of the problem, michael, isn't it?
because whether you're somebody who is being spoofed, and some might argue, maybe to the extreme on "saturday night live." or you're just somebody who is constantly taking it from the president when he gets gets frustrated, who wants to walk into that who has any kind of qualifications? >> i mean i think that's right. the sort of sense of chaos that has been here from day one from the moment he was elected during the transition and was inaugurated you know, the trump white house has been chaotic. that's why we have to take some of the reports with a grain of salt. it's possible tomorrow there could be a wholesale shake-up or it could be another day of chaos and more confrontation between sean spicer and the press and the whole thing continues. i think -- i don't quite think we know where -- what it's going to be. it would be a very strange time to do it two or three days before he takes office. >> timing has never been a strong suit of this white house. alex connen, the former white
house adviser for marco rubio talked about how this and how trump treats his communications people. he said, "trump is putting a lot on the backs of his spokespeople while simultaneously cutting their legs out from underneath them. there is nothing more discouraging or embarrassing for a spokesman than to have your boss contradict you." now, at the risk of your twitter feed blowing up, i mean, they are in a horrible position. >> i agree with alex totally. >> which never excuses that anybody in a communications department should lie. >> exactly. and previous press secretaries who i've covered have been careful not to come out to that podium especially with the seal of the white house right there and say, you know, and say something they know not to be true. but look, the stories that are shifting inside of this white house are shifting because the president is shifting them. and you know, so if the president sets out a message and then the vice president goes and repeats it and other members of
the cabinet repeat it and the press secretary sean spicer walks out there and repeats that, if it all changes later, it's real difficult for sean spicer. that is the dynamic that played out so dramatically last week with the firing of jim comey. i think that put a fine point on the whole problem. >> you still have, mark murray, so many positions that are open, ambassadorships not the least of them now family we have been hearing there's a possibility that ha callista gingrich, the wife of newt gingrich, could be going to the vatican or as it's its formerly called u.s. ambassador to the holy see. >> she is newt gingrichs wife and a devout catholic. it would be seen as a reward for someone like newt gingrich who was a top surrogate for the trump campaign certainly ended up defending them. sometimes made some critical comments. for the most part, a pretty big ally of president trump. if she got the plum position it
would be a reward. you do hit on an important point here is that this is not the most important of ambassadorships. the fact that we're starting to get word that this is a pick, instead of the more hot spot ambassadors and even more importantly, a lot of the important assistant secretaries, many of the people who would end up running the government in the next year or two still haven't been appointed yet. i think there's a good question on what this administration is prioritizing and what it's not. >> yeah, and what they have done and haven't done. now the president himself talking about getting rid of press briefings. i mean, do we think he's serious about that? >> it's hard to say. look, there was a question about this question of press briefings. they floated the idea maybe they would not have them. they did. there's a long tradition. i think typically white houses see them as valuable to them as well as because it's a way for them to get out their an message
and speak directly to the american public. i would be surprised if it goes away completely but i wouldn't be surprised if they make changes that diminish the traditional press and focus on press more friendly to them. >> mark, what do you make of that? there's been talk they could change the way it's held, maybe they would do it in smaller groups which is the way it was done at one point. they also had the traditional briefing. there is no modern precedent, is there, for not holding a pretty regular press briefing? especially i would think for someone who has been like it or not, pretty accessible. and that is this president. >> the white house press briefing is a way in which the news organizations and the american public is able to hold at a white house or administration accountable. if that goes and even if it's changed or tinkered, i think that would be kind of a blow to the public service and certainly the scrutiny that the media is able to apply. i would note while president
trump has held several bilateral news conferences and those are news conferences with two world leaders where each gets about two questions each, he still has only given one full-fledged news conference so far in his tenure as president. when he was talking about well, maybe i need to actually go out and do it a little bit more, i think a lot of us would like to see him answering more and more questions since he is the one who is better able to speak for his white house and administration more than a lot of other of his aides and associates. >> yeah, and the other point i guess is that when he goes out with somebody like lester holt, who is very well prepared he finds himself in an even more difficult situation post interview. so we shall see. but there is a press briefing scheduled today, right, michael? >> there is. we'll be there. >> mark murray, michael shear, appreciate it. we are now moments away. they're running a little late. the president speaking on capitol hill. we'll be right back.
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while 30% say it has given them a less favorable one. 61% said it had no impact. and finally, this is the most troubling number 46% said they feel that president trump fired comey to slow down the russia investigation. and 38% buy the original explanation from the white house, that it was done over legitimate concerns over how comey handled the hillary clinton e-mail issue. and there's a report that a frustrated president trump is considering firing many of his top white house aides. it adds up to a week, at best, the administration has a communications problem. or at worst, it is facing accusations of obstruction of justice. >> i was going to fire comey. >> donald trump contradicted his white house aides and his vice president, adding to questions as to why the president chose to fire fbi director james comey when he did. >> no one from the white house. that was a d.o.j. decision. >> he took the recommendation
but the president needs to back off and let the investigation go forward. we need to call comey and get to the bottom of all of this. i think it's time for an fbi agent to lead the fbi. when you talk about a new person to lead the fbi, how about an fbi agent who is above reproach. >> why does it have to be an fbi agent at this point? >> it doesn't -- >> why not a u.s. attorney? a prosecutor, somebody like that? >> it could be. it could be a lot of people. how about the idea of an fbi agent leading the fbi, promoting within the ranks. there's so many good agents, men and women out there, capable of leading the agency. this is up to the president. he has an duty and obligation to pick somebody beyond reproach outside of the political lane. i think he will do that. i hope he will do that. i'm ready to move on and pick a new fbi agent. i'm ready to get to the bottom of what russia did. no evidence that the president colluded with the russians at all. nobody on the campaign that i know of has colluded with the russians. we don't know all of the evidence yet. we need to continue forward and protect these investigations. >> while we're staying on the
fbi director, eight people interviewed yesterday at the justice department. one of them is a colleague of yours, senator john cornyn. two were women, could be the first woman to head the fbi. former fbi agent and a former member of congress. let me ask you this -- in this political environment, do you think it's the right time to have the first-ever fbi director who had a political elected political background, which is what it would be, if mike rogers or john cornyn were named? >> no. i think it's now time to pick somebody that comes from within the ranks or such a reputation that has no political background at all, that can go into the job on day one. who does the fbi director work for? to me, it's like appointing a judge. the president actually appoints a judge. but the judge is loyal to the law. the president appoints the fbi
director, but the fbi director has to be loyal to the law. john cornyn is a wonderful man under normal circumstances. would be superb choice to be fbi director. we have a chance to reset as a nation. the president has a chance to clean up the mess that he mostly created. he really think did his staff a disservice by changing the explanation. i would encourage the president to pick somebody we can all rally around, including those who work in the fbi. >> let me ask you something about the russian interference. later in the show, i have an interview with rex tillerson. i conducted it yesterday. and he would not give an explanation as to why russian interference wasn't brought up during his meeting with foreign minister lavrov. we go back and forth and not once was it thought of as a top priority. can we move on in a relationship with russia if we don't confront them on this? >> absolutely not. i don't know if they privately talked about it. but secretary tillerson did a masterful job in the u.n. security council talking about
the threat of north korea. i understand wanting to engage the russians in syria because they're part of the solution, if we ever find one. but here's what i believe. i'm 1,000% certain that the russians interfered in our election. it was the russian intelligence service that hacked into podesta's e-mail, the dnc, to create chaos. they did try to undercut clinton. i don't think they changed the outcome. i don't believe we can go forward as a nation until we punish russia. have bipartisan sanctions against russia for interfering in our election. and my goal is to put it on the president's desk. i hope he would embrace it. russia didn't change the outcome of the election but they tried. and i want to punish the russians. and i hope the president will see their interference as a threat to our democracy. >> i want to talk about the investigation. word just out of the field, nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. i have to put the up the number. i'll read it to you. i know you don't have a screen. who should investigate russian interference? only 15% think it should be you folks in congress.
78% -- that means it's a bipartisan group of people, would like to see an independent commission or a special prosecutor. do you understand why the public doesn't trust, now, the politicians to do this? >> yeah. but here's what i think about the investigation -- right now, it is a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation. you don't need a special prosecutor. i trust deputy attorney general rothenstein to do this. if he can't do it, we'll have a special prosecutor. an independent commission takes it outside of congress. the intel committee, the judiciary committee, we're doing a good job. i want to keep it inside the congress. i'd like a select committee where we all work together. but right now, i see no need for a special prosecutor. it's not a criminal investigation. i see no need for an independent commission yet. >> you called for a special counsel a number of times during the obama years, for the clinton
e-mails, for the department of justice, targeting leaks, white house leaks of investigation, the idea that joe sestak may have gotten a job offer in exchange. my point is, why did all those meet the test for a special counsel but this one doesn't? >> this is a counterintelligence investigation. we're not investigating a crime yet. if it becomes a criminal investigation of the trump campaign colluding with the russians during the election and mr. rothenstein doesn't believe he can do the job, we'll have a special counsel. there's a process in place. i'm not worried about polling, not worrying about anything other than trying to get the right answer. the russians did it, they need to be punished. trump is not a target of the investigation yet. leave the investigation alone. congress is doing a good job in my view. if it gets to the point we can't, we will take it outside of congress. >> you are looking at the president's finances. the president has made a big deal that he sent you a certified letter from his accountant, which all that means is you signed for it.
and that's fine. but why does it -- in this case, shouldn't you want to see the tax returns from one of these llcs that run a golf course, for instance. there's a report out there in north carolina that the trump national golf course may have been financed by russian money. that's not going to be in the president's tax return. that's going to be in the llc of trump national in charlotte has that. are you going to be able to get your hands on those records? >> i have yet to find any evidence of improper business dealings between the trump organization and russia or anything else. if you can show me there's reason -- there's a suspicion of that, we need to get financial documents. >> have you seen those records? >> i can't ask for documents without a reason. the president should turn over the tax returns. i don't have a reason to subpoena them. if i get that reason, i will do it. he should turn over the tax returns.
he should do that now. >> all tax returns, not just the personal but the llcs. it's not going to be in his tax return if there's anything there. >> if you can show me we need to do that, i will do it. i can't say on television, based on your question, that's a good idea. but i'm open-minded to all things russia. the bottom line is, i think russia tried to affect our election, undermine our democracy. i want them to pay a price. i have yet to find collusion between the trump campaign and russia. there's a "washington post" story that comey went to burr to get more agents and more money. that's not true. there's a lot of things that are said that are true or half-truths. let the process work. i promised the people of sking and the people of the united states, i do care about this. i have nobody to punish. >> i hope you don't regret coming on now. >> happy mother's day. it was fun. >> that's the most important message to say. there you go.
let me go to the other side of the aisle. senate democratic leader chuck schumer of new york. senator, welcome to "meet the press." i hope you're more enthusiastic to be on than senator graham. >> yeah, i didn't see senator graham. i want to join him in wishing all of the moms happy mother's day. in particularly to my mom, who will turn 89 in three weeks. >> well done. >> let me start with the issue of a special prosecutor. why do you believe it needs to be done. senator ben sass indicated that if you do that, it is sending a message you don't trust the intel committee to do their work. and it's a vote of no confidence there. shouldn't you let them do their job to see if they can do it without a special prosecutor? >> well, there are two separate lines of activity here. one is the oversight function of the intelligence committee. they're doing their job. mark warner has done a very good job.
i've had some differences with senator burr. but in the last week, people tell me, he was upset with comey's firing and he's been good. i hope it continues. but they can't prosecute. a special prosecutor appointed by the justice department has the ability to actually prosecute people for violations of law. and they go on in tandem. one shouldn't step on the other. they're talking to each other right now. the fbi was with the intelligence committee to make sure no one is granted immunity. but it's two separate issues. and we need a special prosecutor, chuck. we need somebody who is independent of the justice department to get to the bottom of this. and i just say one more thing. the silence of my republican colleagues on this issue is sort of deafening. this is not an issue of party. this is an issue of country. foreign interference in the elections is a very, very serious, serious thing. and we should get to the bottom of it. where is the howard baker of 2017? we need one.
>> one of your democratic colleagues, senator sheldon whitehouse, said why he is skeptical of a special counsel. take a listen. >> if you look at the special counsel rule, you have to bring in somebody new, bring him in from outside the department. and they have the choice to make their own decision they want to start from fresh, perhaps. >> his concern is that everything starts over. you're hitting a reset button and it sets the investigation back. >> look, i have a -- i love sheldon whitehouse. i have a great deal of respect for him. he's one of the great lawyers around. there's many instances where a special prosecutor comes in. they're in charge, they're the shield, so there's no outside interference or direction. but the same investigators who worked on this will continue to work on this. and that's how i imagine it will work. let's remember, the special prosecutor has four abilities
that an internal person doesn't. he or she makes the decision. day-to-day, on who to subpoena. who to examine, what questions to asked. who outside interference. second, can only be fired for cause. third, has the ability, if there's interference, someone's trying to thwart the investigation from up above, they can make sure that doesn't happen. and investigate that and, fourth, they have to report to congress. there's a lot of advantages over a special prosecutor. and if you look at the department of justice guidelines, there's never a more important time, a more appropriate time for a special prosecutor than in this situation. >> senator warner, who is the vice chair of the intel committee, conducting the investigation. he said, unless the deputy attorney general rosenstein appoints a special prosecutor, he thinks it will very difficult to get support for an fbi director. do you plan on linking those two issues? not trying to tell the democratic senators, withhold support until there's a special prosecutor named? >> well, each democratic senator is going to make up his or her
own mind. but i think the two are very much related. if you have an independent special prosecutor, you really have the ability to get to the bottom of this. so, it matters in terms of who the fbi director is. you need both of them, really, to have a lot of courage, to resist any pushback, not to do the investigation. you need both to be very experienced. that's important, as well. and i think both should be nonpartisan. not from either political party. those would be my criteria. but i think they're linked because they're involved in one of the most serious investigations we've seen in a very long time. >> there were eight candidates interviewed yesterday. two have an electoral background. a sitting senator in john cornyn, a sitting member of congress. some have a bipartisan background, like townsend, that served in the clinton and the bush administration. anybody jump out as a favorite of yours? someone you could see supporting?
>> i've made it a practice, chuck, of not commenting on nominees publicly. let's see who they nominate. but as i said, certainly somebody not of a partisan background. certainly somebody of great experience. and certainly somebody of courage. >> what did you make of the merrick garland suggestion? >> i'm not going to comment on any of them. i like him as a justice, though. he's very good on that d.c. circuit. i don't know if he would want to leave. >> you think that was too cute at that point? >> no comment. >> no comment. all right. >> i'm smiling. >> senator chuck schumer, i will leave it there. senate democratic leader. thanks for coming on "meet the press" and sharing your views. when we come back, signs of a big white house shakeup. yet more reporting this morning that president trump may be prepared to do house cleaning in one part of the west wing. as we go to break, here's a moment from president trump's commencement address yesterday at liberty university in lynchburg, virginia. >> being an outsider is fine. embrace the label because it's
the outsiders who change the world and who make a real and lasting difference.
welcome back, panelists another, eugene washington, our newly appointed white house contemporary, hallie jackson. bbc world news anchor, katty kay and from the washington "free beacon" and late breaking news, from founder of asios, he joins me. you will throw some more wood here on the fire. a whole shake-up you say is coming soon. walk us through it. i think we will put up the four positions that could be on the firing line including the chief of staff. >> you talk to the same people we do. you have a president so frustrated he's getting nothing done, it has the coverage feels ill-served by his staff.
he's been on the phone talking about getting rid of everyone from steve bannon to rinse priebus to his white house lawyer, don mcgann. he's even frustrated with his cabinet officials talked about getting upstaged with top officials including his friend, wilbur ross. but the thing is he's just frustrated. the thing for the white house, he's the product and pitchman. he's the producer, firing the stage hands denies a fundamental -- >> we know this happens a lot. is this a timeline here? something he's moving quickly or like comey, could happen in a day or month? >> we never know. we had this three weeks ago, we know he wants steve bannon out and jared kushner wantsteve bannon out. they're worried about the optics of doing it. whenheents and get frustrated he really gets frustrated. you never know if he's blowing off steam, it is coming. >> it's clear to me the circle
that sluhrunk around the president. >> i think you saw that with the comey decision, steve bannon was not in the loop with this. there's pushback with his allies. the point is this circle is shrinking. the president is frustrated. when he gets frustrated he vents and spitballs, how real is it as a question? since sean spicer's first press briefing i get a text every 10 days that says spicer is gone. this feels different and even those in spicer's corner say this is a different situation. i would not understate talking about timing the importance of this foreign trip. the president has an extraordinarily busy week, four leaders this week and then heads to the west coast. >> is this trumpy, my god, everybody is focused on comey. let me do a white house shake-up and maybe everybody with focus there, act two. figuring out timing with president trump is impossible. look at the comey firing, right?
awful, terrible timing, you ask for this report that's the cover story, you get it. the next day he's out or later that day he's out. the timing was awful. it created the appearance of all sorts of conflicts and then he schedules the lester holt interview and decides to blurt out what sounded like a confession to a lot of people to obstruction of justice. i think your point, jim, you have no idea when this is going to happen or might happen. it does feel different. it feels like something has to give in this white house. >> the other part the more somebody gets talked about getting fired the less the president wants to do it. >> the more we bring it up. matthew, you wrote a great column on friday that may summarize this whole thing best. you hear it all the time. president trump hasn't been tested or faced a real crisis. the events of the last few weeks made me want to turn that formulation around. trump doesn't face crisis so much as manufacture them.
in a way he is the crisis and his presidency in danger of not being defined not by any legislative or diplomatic achievement but his handling of diplomatic obstacles he creates for himself. >> you have the most unpredictable president probably theodore roosevelt president before the 24 hour news psych ntil ach lot of people worried about president trump's policies when he took office. he's a businessman, he will manage like a businessman. now we come to the reverse, many republicans find with president trump's policies mainly conventional conservative policies with a few trumpian twists. you hear a lot of complaints from republicans about the management. >> i wrote this week perhaps it's the president's thin skin getting in the way of his presidency. there may be nothing behind the firing of james comey or russia or hillary clinton's e-mail. it may be the psychology of the president that cannot bear the idea this man was not loyal to
him, went on television and hit the sweet spot of undermining somehow the president's electoral victory. the problem is without a straight story conspiracy theories will fill the vacuum. we're not getting the straight story and not getting the facts from the white house and leaving them wide open to the criticism this was somehow nefarious. >> on top of this, he thinks so small, for all the rage against the media he remains this past week obsessed with coverage, spends so much time watching sean spicer's performance and probably watching our performance. when you think small it's hard to do in life. >> that's something ckatty was implying. the worst thing comey said in that testimony, nauseous. it came close to comey agreeing with the clinton narrative comey cost her the election. despite it not being james comey's intention to make that.
that was the day this kicked another gear. he may have wanted to fire comey but wednesday was it. >> he may never accept this investigation of russian meddling exists separate from any question of hillary clinton having lost the election and whether she ran a bad campaign or not. >> the question of whether that reaction gets in the way of his presidency ishat it leads to a lack of competence in the white house. he can't overcome his personal feelings to run the white house. >> a showboat and grandstander. there's only one star of the show we're in. it's president trump. >> i will leave it there. >> a little breaking news this morning, appreciate you getting up. thank you. up next, president trump says the russia story is fake news and a witch hunt. does is secretary of state, rex tillerson agree? my interview after the break. and senator warren's commencement address at the university of massachusetts. >> study up because knowing
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to the thought that he was trying to stymie the russia campaign. i sat down with secretary of state rex tillerson and asked him whether he agrees with the president the russia story is fake news and witch-hunt? >> the president has made it clear he feels it's important we re-engage with russia, the relationship with russia, as he has described and i have described as well, i think at an all time low point since the end of the cold war, with a very low level of trust. i think the world and it's in the interests of the american people and russia and the rest of the world we do something to see if we cannot improve the relationship between the two greatest nuclear powers in the world. the president, i think, has committed to make an effort in that regard and asked me to make an effort as well. >> i understand that. you look at what's happening in the western european nations, france and germany and italy and
accusations of russian interested interference in their election process. what does id say to them that the president fired the man at the agency that was looking into the very problem they're dealing with, russian interference and the democracy? >> chuck, from what i hear from leaders of the other nations, europe and more broadly the subject of russia comes up in all of our conversations is all the other nations want the u.s. and russia to work towards improving our relationship as well for all the reason is just mentioned. i think it is largely viewed it is not healthy for the world and not healthy for us for the american national security to remain healthy at this low level. whether we can improve it remains to be seen. it will take time and hard work. the president's committed, rightly so, and i'm committed with him as well to see if we cannot do something to put us on
a better footing with our relationship with russia. >> can you get on a better footing if you don't address this issue? your counterpart, foreign minister, mr. lavrov said you guys didn't even talk about this issue of russian interference in our election because, as he put it, president trump himself says it's fake news so it's not an issue. why haven't you brought it up with him? >> chuck, i think we have such a broad range of important issues that have to be addressed in the u.s. russia relationship. obviously the interference in the election is one of those. been well documented, pretty well understood the nature of that interference here and elsewhere. these are not new tactics on the part of the russian government directed not only at us but at others. again, i think we have to look at this relationship in its broadest contours and there are many many important areas which require our attention if we are to bring it back to a
relationship we believe is necessary for the security of the u. >> mr. secretary, this is fundamental, they interfered with our democracy. i just don't understand how this is not a top issue for you to deal with, with them, in order to essentially start with a clean slate. can can't start with a clean slate until either they own up to what they did or we punish them in a way they won't do this again. >> chuck, i think it's important to understand we're not trying to start with a clean slate. terms like having a reset are overused. you cannot reset, you cannot erase the past. you cannot start with a clean slate and we're not trying to start with a clean slate. we're starting with the slate we have and all the problems on that slate. we don't dismiss any of them, we don't give anyone a free pass on any one of them. they're part of the entire nature of the discussions we're having with the russians. there are a large number of
issues we have to get around to addressing in order to put this relationship back together if that is indeed possible. >> during your confirmation hearings you made clear you hasn't obviously hasn't been briefed on the intelligence reports, 17 different agencies that came to the conclusions that the russians did make an effort to interfere in this election. obviously, there's an investigation going along to see if there's any collusion in this interference. since you became secretary of state in february, i have you seen this intelligence now? is it clear in your mind that it is a fact the russians interfered in our elections? >> i have seen the intelligence reports, chuck, yes, i don't think there's any question that the russians were playing around in our electoral processes. again, as those intelligence reports indicated it's inconclusive as to what if any effect it had. >> i understand about the impact, the fact they got into it, what should the repercussions be now in your mind? >> they're just part of that broader landscape of
conversations, chuck. the real impact it serves yet again to undermine the trust between the united states and russia. as i have said and the president has said, you know, we're at a very very low level of trust between our two countries right now. so what we're exploring is how do we begin the process of restoring that trust. ultimately, it will touch on all these issues. >> i want to give you a chance to respond to an op-ed senator john mccain wrote, where he invoked your name, sir. in a recent address to state department employees, secretary of state rex tillerson said conditioning our foreign policy too heavily on values creates obstacles to advance our national interests. with those words, secretary tillerson sent a message to oppressored people everywhere, don't look to the united states for hope. our values make us sympathetic to our plight and when it's convenient we might officially express that sympathy. pretty tough words from senator mccain. what do you say in response? >> first, i would say if anyone
has earned their right to express their views, senator mccain has. i have great respect to the senator. i think the point of the message i was saying to state department employees is an important one to understand. america's values of freedom, dignity, freedom of expression, those are our values, enduring values and part of everything we do. they serve as the guidepost and serve as the boundaries as we develop our foreign policy approaches and diplomatic efforts. i make a distinction between values and policy. policy has to be taylilored to e individual situation and country and its circumstances and broader issue in terms of advancing our national security interests, national economic interests. so policies have to be adaptable. they have to change and adjust to conditions. our values can never change. our values can never be put in a position of having to be
compromised. the values guide our policy. but if we put our values in front of ourlicies and say, this is our poly, we have no room to adapt to changing circumstances to achieve our ultimate objective. if we are successful to achieving our ultimate diplomatic and national security objectives, we will create the condition for advancement and freedom of countries all over the world. >> secretary tillerson, i know you're busy and have this big trip head of you. >> thanks, chuck, i want to say happy mother's day to all the mothers of the world, my own mother and wife and two daughter laws, mothers of my grandchildren. any decision to move the u.s. embassy to jerusalem would not be made for some time. you can see a lot more of this interview on our website on meetthepress.com. coming up, could we see
makings of a democratic wave next year? will farrell's commencement address at usc. >> this is not my first commencement speech. the institutions to which i have spoken at previously include briman's school of nursing, hollywood d.j. academy and trump university.
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that's a 6 point jump in 10 years. 2015 millennial moms are more racially and ethnically diverse. what does all this mean? as millennials start to dominate motherhood. it could change our politics. they were concerned about security moms focused on post 9/11 world. those were republicans. and those now may be focused on other issues as top priorities. perhaps childcare, family leave and equal pay. for now those are areas of strength for the democrats. bottom line, demographics of moms are changing radically before our eyes, we showed you that quick snapshot and along the way may change our politics. back in a moment. the end game and choppy halls at republican town halls that might, might turn into a wave for democrats next year. >> we need a bipartisan select
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healthcare rants. now, special prosecutor ones. take a look, guys. >> we have oversight committees in the house and in the senate. >> are you about ready to call for an independent council and if not, what would it take? >> right now i don't think we need an independent council. there's been zero shred of evidence, zero shred of evidence that the president, there's been any collusion with russia. >> we need a bipartisan select committee to investigate this. whenre you going to open your eyes? when are you going to decide to be an american and not a politics? >> the atmospherics right now, matthew, right now, to be a republican member of congress, going into a town hall. two weeks ago you were getting your head chopped off over healthcare, now, it's on this. the timing of all of this, this is when incumbents decide whether to run again or challenges decide whether to run or not. it's probably a good time to be a democrat and bad time to be a republican. >> not very encouraging.
i would say the town halls have been attracting the most partisan and motivated democrats. some numbers in your pollings suggest the comey firing may not have the political impact a lot of people think. one clip you didn't have i think summed up the weird politics this week when stephen colbert mentioned the comey firing and the crowd went into applause. he said, no, no, it's bad. many people have conflicting views of james comey including this president. it may not have the political value of the healthcare fight. >> we put up the president's job rate apology,in our poll even. disapproval at 54 now and 54 in the last poll. as charlie cook might say he trades in a narrow trading range on his job approval. that tells you the core hasn't left. >> one number we have seen shift what democrats are pointing to when they think there is a
prospect perhaps wave coming up the strongly disapprove number. that numr has increased significantly just in the last couple of weeks. that would suggest -- we don't have numbers yet for enthusiasm how likely people are to vote. that's the proxy number. if you strongly disapprove. 51%, strongly approve at 25% that subjects those people may turn out and vote in the mid-terms. >> even democratic operatives i've been talking about in the last 48 hours or so say nobody will go to the polls and vote based on comey. here's what goes the thinking. number one, what you spoke to, chuck, mobilize and get more enthusiastic, not voters but people who could run, recruitment and candidates to run. the other part when you tally up incidents in democratic views like the comey firing and add that to whatever else might happen the next year pointing it as congress as rubber stamp on the president's actions that could affect them in 2018, not a specific incident but building
occupy over time. >> i think it's a better time to be a democratic political organizer out of the grassroots than republican organizer at the grassroots. the question is how do you quantify that enthusiasm? do you find the right candidates? let's look again in three or four, six months and see where things stand. right now this is potential there? yeah. >> the other argument democrats are making mid-terms is the first time they have had a chance to do something about trump since the inauguration. even though you're seeing some enthusiasm decline in protests and numbers a bit smaller when you get to an actual election people feel they can take action that may drive people to the polls. >> trump's core is solid. the danger for the gop is it might not transfer to the republican party. donald trump won the presidency differentiating himselfom the republican party and similar to his predecessor. barack obama always maintained that gut connection with his
base, his constituency. it didn't transfer to the democratic party, devastating over eight years. >> let's get the charlie sikes op-ed into the discussion and talks about discussion there ant conservative electionism, anti-trumpism. the elreal heart is the delight in the frustration and anger of his opponents if liberals like something. each controversy reinforces the divisions and mistrust and mr. trump counts on that. the conservatives have lost what it means to be a conservative. >> i think many people come to conservatism for different reasons and a lot driven by the opposition to the left and why a lot of the conservative movement went to president trump and with his flaws they felt he was battering ram against the left
and charlie psych sykes. >> even like you heard lindsey graham on the russia question for example, even those most dedicated to sort of upholding what had been their prior principles and least connected with donald trump, are not ready to jump ship yet. lindsey graham is not calling for a special prosecutor yet. there's distance yet to cover, i think, before you see any sort of mass defections. >> how that plays out we look ahead to 2018, particularly on the republican side with one gop operative saying you might see people redistance themselves from donald trump the way you saw in 2016 if it continues the way it is. >> you have several congressman running less popular than the president. how do they run on something like healthcare when people don't want to necessarily
distance themselves from donald trump? >> a lot of unfinished business, healthcare, tax reform. >> i have unfinished business. i have to stop there. that's all we have for today. happy mother's day to all those mothers out there. mine, my wife, a great mother and katty. there you go. >> thank you. all four of my kids are home. >> all of washington is united behind one wall, john wall. good luck and see you tomorrow and next sunday. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." you can see more end game i got a mortgage offer from the bank today. whaaaat?! you never just get one offer. go to lendingtree.com and shop multiple loan offers for free. free? yeah, could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. no. go to lendingtree.com for a new home loan or refinance. receive up to five free offers
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investigation of russian interference into the u.s. election and other matters. it's up to mueller to decide the other matters, to include the firing of the fbi director. michael flynn, a meeting between the fbi director and the president in the white house. >> just to be clear, the fbi investigation that's been going on, that was under director comey, that continues and that is what mueller is overseeing? >> he has oversight over the entire probe as it were. you're not going to stop any activity in the fbi anymore, you've got a whole team there, and that's something you've heard from the acting fbi director, as they search for a new director, that they're continuing their work. i have spoke to people inside the bureau, but this is a very independent-minded mueller. one other thing i'll note. i have been talking to people around washington in reaction to this, yes, comey's out, if you
>> huge development today. >> just two days ago, white house press secretary spicer says frankly there's no need for a special prosecutor. so what is their thinking tonight? jim acosta joins us now. so what's the late word from the white house? >> reporter: it's hard to imagine a worse 72 hours in president trump's life. and what you're seeing tonight, anderson, is a very different president trump, a very restrained president trump, he's not talking about so-called judges as he did after the travel ban. he's not threatening the former fbi director james comey as he did last week when he talked about tapes on twitter. consider this very restrained statement coming from the president of the united states tonight on the tapping of bob mueller as special prosecutor, it says as i have stated many times a thorough investigation will confirm what we already know, there was no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity. i look forward to this matter concluding quickly. in the meantime, i will never stop fighting for the people and issues that matter most to the future of our country.
an incredible turn of events when you consider the last week. remember the white house put out a same that essentially laid some of the responsibility for the firing of comey on rod rosenstein and you see rod rosenstein tapping bob mueller to be the special prosecutor. something that no administration wants to see happen at fi stage, let alone 150 days into a presidency. >> did rosenstein give a heads up to attorney general sessions? >> from what we understand, there was not much of a heads up before this announcement came down, from what i understand from talking to administration officials, rod rosenstein signed this order naming bob mueller as special prosecutor. white house counsel don mcgahn was notified and very soon after that informed the president of the united states that there was a special prosecutor looking
how important is this? >> it's enormously important, but it's also i think a rare moment of unanimity and relief. because there is literally no more respected person in american law enforcement than bob mueller. when you look at his experience, 12 years as the fbi director. head of the criminal division in the justice department. u.s. attorney in boston. u.s. attorney in san francisco. appointed mostly by republicans, but occasionally by democrats, someone who has a reputation for integrity, for intelligence, for fairness. this is someone that both sides can trust. however it does mean that this is going to be a very serious and almost certainly lengthy investigation which cannot be good news to the white house. >> the president saying he's looking forward to this getting done quickly. it's not going to get done quickly. >> best of luck with that. >> dana you have new reporting on how this decision came about. >> what i'm told from a senior
republican source, rod rosenstein, and i think this is quite obvious based on the decision, and the bombshell we have tonight, the special prosecutor, was more and more agitated with the white house's actions and being put in the position that he had been put in, to the point where he was so angry, according to the source who was in contact with rosenstein, that he was ready to, quote, pack his bags, last week. with this decision, particularly on the heels of yesterday and the comey memo becoming public, and more importantly the content allegedly of the comey memo, this is basically the perspective of this republican source, throwing donald trump overboard. now we're talking about politically, and maybe even legally depending on how this goes. wanting to separate himself, obviously, from this and say, look, you guys are on your own and you're going to have this guy who has an impeccable reputation and impeccable experience and so forth obviously in a bipartisan way to do this investigation.
the one other thing that this source says and we'll see if this source comes to bear, that the next big move on capitol hill and the next big public event was supposed to be james comey going to capitol hill testifying publicly. >> is that going to happen? >> it doesn't look like it. it is possible. but this source says probably what bob mueller will do is shut it down, meaning he will take stock of everything, including james comey's memos, including what james comey has to say, and perhaps prevent him or ask him, his good friend james comey, not to go testify. he's a private citizen now so he can kind of do what he wants. evan perez, who obviously is very steeped in these things, also notes if that happens, if james comey says huh-uh, i'm not going to do it. that's another bad news sign for the white house which means that bob mueller is going to incorporate the comey memo and
the comey conversation with the president into his investigation. >> if i could just add one point to that. comey almost certainly, when receiving a request to testify in front of congress, will go to his friend bob mueller and say look, what do you want me to do? what can i do that will jeopardize your investigation the least? and mueller, starting from scratch is almost certainly going to say, hold on, don't do anything, let me get my hands around this problem and then maybe we'll see if it's okay to testify. >> gloria, what do you make of this development? >> well, i think that it gives a lot of people some breathing room on capitol hill, the democrats have been calling for a special counsel, now they have a special counsel whom they respect and who is respected on both sides of the aisle. i was talking to a senior
seener democratic aide who said to me, it's amazing to watch republicans on the special counsel go from we don't need one to he's amazing. so the republicans are applaud thing to a great degree because now they can go home to their constituents, they can say they are not ducking an investigation. they can say the special counsel is going to handle this and we need to get back to the people's business. i think mueller is an impeccable choice. i think people on the hill believe that he is. i think they are going to want to conduct their own investigations and jeffrey knows a lot about this because he was involved in iran contra and they're not going to be happy if comey doesn't want to testify, to be honest, because they're going to want to continue their investigation, the democrats, that is, and they're going to want to continue to go out on their own so you may see a bit of conflict there. >> in your views, is this a good move? >> first of all it's another self-inflicted wound, when the
president blamed rod rosenstein for the decision to fire comey and rod rosenstein responded the way dana said he did. he made himself unfireable and became the most powerful person in the justice department. i would say this is a mixed blessing. for the american public, it's not such a good thing, we probably won't learn anything from this investigation, it's going to be secret, we will never hear from a witness, in the end we will either hear no indictment or an indictment. to the extent that we want to know what really went on, an independent investigation commission of the kind of 9/11 or the challenger, would have been better for the american public. and i think president trump could have avoided a special prosecutor if he had pressed for an independent commission earlier. >> some democrats still want an independent commission. is that possible? >> absolutely.
as gloria was saying earlier, the fact that you have a congressional investigation and a law enforcement investigation at the same time can generate controversy and conflict. the most dramatic example being the issue of immunity. congressional committees want to get people to testify, so they want to give out immunity. law enforcement, they don't want to give immunity, and the most dramatic example of this conflict came involved in the investigation i was involved in iran contra, where john poin decisioner and oliver north were given immunity. we in the lawrence walsh investigation prosecuted them any way. they were convicted but north's conviction was overturned by the appeals court because the immunity was said to trump the conviction. that sort of conflict is very much possible. >> david axelrod, can you envision any scenario in which much or his surrogates criticize
this? >> having embraced rosenstein on the decision to fire the fbi director, i don't think he's going to -- he's boxed, he's boxed. one interesting thing about this, if the president truly believes what he said in his statement that his campaign and his associate also be cleared by such an investigation, then he should welcome this. because if it had been the justice department that issued that statement, i think there would be broad skepticism about it. bob mueller, if he were to conclude that there were no laws broken, that there was no such involvement, carries much greater credibility. but on this point of the commission, there are going to be many, many democrats who are going to continue to push for this independent commission. because as he said, this process is going to be conducted in secret.
and if this is a way of blocking the independent commission, that the country will never get the full picture of what happened. >> there's another important reason too, it's very likely no crimes occurred. if there was contact between the russians and the administration, it might be a terrible, terrible thing, but it wouldn't be a crime. so mueller wouldn't have jurisdiction to look into that. he can't generally look into things that might be politically or moralry bad. he is focused. he is ahab, looking at that white male. he gets the whale or he doesn't, but he looks at the entire sea scape. >> what's going for the country as an independent commission could possibly be, as david axelrod is saying, they want it to happen. republicans right now are running congress and they are breathing the biggest sigh of relief, i think we can hear it
all the way up here in new york, because they feel that this is a big out for them. >> because they're going to take it out of the public eye? >> out of the public eye, and they hope what it means now is when they go home and get beaten up about, you know, what's going on, they can say you know what? it's in the hands of a very well respected prosecutor, bob mueller and i don't know anything about it, i can't talk about it. >> the investigations aren't over, so they are going to continue to investigate and hold hearings, so it's not going to go completely underground. >> it won't go underground, but it won't be broadened. >> one thing about these congressional investigations, they're not very well resourced. you've got on the house side, seven part-time staff, working part-time on this issue, i think it's the same on the senate side. the special counsel will be fully resourced to pursue this investigation and that's one reason why there was a lot of interest in seeing a special counsel appointed.
>> phil mudd, you know robert mueller. what do you make of this appointment? >> boy, on a personal and professional level, this is profound for me, i had an office, director mueller was down the hall, i must have been involved in 1,000, 2,000 meet wgs him. i never saw anybody like him, ever. for any american who looks for integrity judgment, i saw him do personnel, political investigations that involved corruption, i watched him make decisions in thousands of cases, when you had to decide whether to arrest a kid who was a potential suicide bomber or let the investigation go. anderson, i don't know what to say. i never saw anything like it. judgment, character, integrity, humility. if you have a kid and you've
despaired that there's not a hero in america, robert mueller is it. >> jeff, i heard you talk about leaks and this is something the president and republicans have been focusing on. it's not likely that there would be a tremendous amount of leaks coming out of this office. >> despite our best efforts. we will try, and the fbi will still be involved and the fbi is many what leakier organization than anything affiliated with mueller himself. but certainly the odds overwhelmingly are that this investigation will be tight as a drum, and we will not know. you can see who's walking into a grand jury room and who's walking out. you can know who's testifying. defense lawyers whose clients are subpoenaed can talk about it, and they often do. but in terms of knowing what's going on in this investigation -- >> there will be an fbi
director, how do they work together, who oversees who and can the special counsel direct fbi agents to do things? >> the way it works, mueller will be in charge of the investigation. he will go to the fbi and say i need the following resources, i need 10 agents, and the fbi will almost certainly say we'll give you what you want. but the fbi director doesn't work for bob mueller. mueller will be in charge of the investigate shub. -- investigation. but he can draw on the resources of the fbi, and -- >> does he have his own staff? >> the fbi should work for bob mueller, let's be clear. once j. edgar hoover was exposed as the thug that he was, the fbi works for the justice department. yes, he has an independent statue 10-year term. they're not supposed to do investigations generally of potential criminal conduct.
except under the supervision of u.s. attorneys or justice department attorneys and the special counsel is no different from any other prosecutor in the justice department, except he's not in the line of authority, he's been appointed specially, but he uses the same kinds of resources. so i think we can expect the same from him. now remember that ten years ago, if they asked everybody about his predecessor, comey, we would have heard the same praise, he was boy scout, he was fantastic, he was the greatest at this. but he succumbed to power. and i think the difference is that the new director has learned a lesson. he's not going to do what the old director did, although the temptations are there to do it. >> to be clear, he will also hire lawyers who will be the prosecutors and he's already hired two from his firm. all three of them have resigned from the firm. >> here's a question that i have, which is that the congressional committees have a different job.
they want to present this to the american people who are really concerned about whether there was collusion, the russia hack and all the things that we have been writing about and talking about for these past months. the special counsel wants to figure out whether any crimes were committed. he wants to prosecute, and again, to jeffrey, this is what happened with lawrence walsh and the congressional committees on iran contra. so you have people with kind of different goals, because i think what you see, particularly from the democrats in the congress is they want to shine the light on this, one way or another, and a prosecutor really just wants to prosecute and doesn't want to shine the light unless it will help him in his prosecution. >> the special counsel is focusing on the legality, not the moral or doing something political inappropriate or doesn't reach a legal threshold.
>> the leak about the israeli spy is almost certainly not a crime. now there is a crime, the people who leaked that information to "the washington post" committed a serious felony. and by the way, they're the ones who told isis that israel has a spy in their midst. that didn't happen from donald trump. he told the russians, but it is the leaker who's being praised all over the place, who is a felon, a criminal and should go to jail, who is the villain of this piece. and i hope that the new prosecutor will look into that leak. that's more serious than the leak that occurred if the oval office. >> i want to bring in laura jared, who was in the room at the justice department when all this came down today. laura, what was it like? >> reporter: it was a pretty fast moving turn of events, the reporters here at the justice department were gathered very swiftly just after 5:00, we were told to meet for a briefing. given about 30 minutes notice,
we were given in that briefing the statements from the attorney general, rod rosenstein, as well the sat -- statute to understand the background. and the order from the deputy attorney general himself. i want to read to you just a little bit from his statement so you can understand the context here. he says in part, my decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted. i have made no such determination, what i have determined is that based upon the unique circumstances, the public interest requires me to place this investigation under the authority of a person who exercises a degree of independence from the normal chain of command and obviously it is rod rosenstein making this decision because the attorney general jeff sessions recused from anything related to the russia investigation, the trump campaign, the transition, back in march. so this was up to the deputy attorney general to make this decision. we're also learning a little bit
about the chain of events that went on this afternoon. i'm told by a source that the deputy attorney general's office called the white house counsel's office, did not give them a heads up but called them after this order was signed and attorney general jeff sessions was also informed of this decision after the order was signed, anderson. >> fascinating, david axelrod, one of the panelists earlier was saying this is kind of a situation of trump's making, by basically pointing to rod rosenstein as the reason why the fbi director was fired, then clearly rod rosenstein was angry, whether he threatened to resign or ready to back his bags, he denied that he threatened to resign, but he seemed annoyed by that. then the white house changed their tune. now it's rod rosenstein who is going for the special counsel. >> yeah, and i don't know him. so i'm not going to sit here and say that out of spite he decided
that he would take this step. but he clearly has felt the brunt of this, for a week he's been consulting with, he's been talking to members of congress and hearing from others and reading and he understands the atmospherics, so when he became the deputy attorney general, he was praised by both parties as somebody who was independent. he understands the situation. what he did today was very much about protecting his integrity and the integrity of the justice department. i just, anderson, want to respond to one thing that professor dershowitz said, it struck me as i was listening to him, that had "the washington post" not disclosed the fact of sally yates' meeting with the white house counsel over general flynn, we don't know if he would have ever have been removed as national security advisor. it was only after it became
public that the president took action on it. apparently it was only after it became public that the vice president knew he had been lied to. so i understand the sensitivity of leaks and the administration i worked for was tough on leaks for sure. but there's no doubt that some of these leaks have shown a bright light in places where light was very much needed. >> i have no problem with "the washington post" publishing it or the times publishing it. i do have problems with the people who work for the national security agencies leaking confidential information that may cost lives, that may make it much more difficult to detect laptops. remember the only way isis got this information is through the leak. and you have to be very careful when you leak, because you're taking the law into your own hands. you may not have all the information and know everything, we are still a country of laws and we have to make -- >> you can't say definitively what russia would have done with the information.
>> they're not giving it to isis. they're not on talking terms. >> what about iran? >> they have done things that are actually helpful to syria. it's not as if bashar al assad is fighting a war against isis. he released -- >> david is saying he's allied with iran. >> that's very speculative. we know the first public disclosure of it came from the leaks from within the national security agencies and those leaks should be plugged. >> can we just come back to the broader question of the president and his actions and how his actions have consequences? i am not defending the leak or anything of the sort. i just want to point out what many people inside the white house and outside think caused this, which is the original donald trump attack of the intelligence community way back when, that really stuck in their craw, and he was warned, i can
tell you, i know somebody who told this, you don't mess with the intense communities, because they have ways of getting back to you. it got back to intelligence committees that was then leaked to "the washington post." >> can i answer one question? can bob mueller as special counsel be fired? the answer is yes, by president trump. that's different from the independent counsel law which has since expired and it's a parallel situation to what happened under watergate. which is when president reagan wound up demanding the firing of archibald cox, i'm sorry, nixon. what did i say? >> reagan. >> when nixon demanded the firing of cox, that became the saturday night massacre. >> but he couldn't fire him, only the attorney general could fire him and the attorney general quit, the deputy quit and robert bourke came to the rescue of the president.
and he fired him. >> but mueller can be fired by trump. so that's just something -- >> he could be fired but that would be a catastrophic decision that would have made the firing of the fbi director look like a small event. >> you would hope the president would learn something. he benefited nothing at all from the firing of comey. no benefit came. >> dplo >> if you're sitting in the white house tonight and you want to think about the things donald trump has done to himself, you can talk about the firing of comey and start with that and you can talk about his tweets where he threatened comey with the existence of so-called tapes. and reporting at cnn has said that as of last friday, rosenstein was not inclined to appoint a special counsel. so what happened between last friday and tonight?
what happened is donald trump. and we have seen him be quiet on twitter, because perhaps on the advice of counsel. and i'm assuming now that he's getting lawyered up, if he isn't already, that after donald trump started talking about the tapes, after we learned about, you know, and then we learned about the comey memo, et cetera, i think that you read that, if you're rod rosenstein and you think this is getting out of control. and at a certain point, you decide there is nothing else you can do, other than the big thing that you really didn't want to do, because we know how long and wieldy these investigations can get, but he did do what he didn't want to do which is appoint a special counsel. >> there are a lot of people who would like to hear from director comey about the notes he was taking about president trump, we
may not have that opportunity unless he is willing to testify and come forward. >> i do think he should testify, but i think congress is going to blow this. gloria pointed this out, people are not focusing on the criticali criticality, the difference of what director mueller will do. he's looking backwards whether someone committed a crime that merits indictment by the justice department. the congress should be looking forwards, how do we protect the next elections, how do we talk about russia's cyber intrusions, how that implicated moscow in the previous election and look forward to protecting ourselves in the next election. i think he will be a fine witness. i think if he goes down with the congress, they're going to enmesh themselves into what happened in director mueller's investigation. they can't separate out -- >> we just lost the satellite link up. i want to expand on something dana talk about earlier about hearing a giant sigh of relief on capitol hill as lawmakers
reacted to the naming of robert mueller. a lot of republicans have been saying there was no need for a special counsel or a prosecutor, what are you hearing tonight? >> reporter: anderson it's getting harder and harder for republicans to defend president trump in light of all of these revelations that continue to come up. particularly in light of the james comey memo suggesting the president tried to interfere in that michael flynn investigation. today, there was a softening among some republicans in their opposition to a special prosecutor. and a lot even the members of the leadership are raising concerns about the comey memo, say thing needs to be some investigation to get to the facts. so tonight there is a bit of a sigh of relief, take a listen. >> do you think the president was trying to obstruct justice in any way? >> it's hard for me to say anything on that, we want to gets more information, that's obviously a pretty brazen and big charge, but we deserve the answers to this and i think through an investigation, people need to understand it's going to
take some time to get this set up, but we need answers, i look forward to comey's testimony and any other information we can get. >> are you concerned about this latest comey memo? >> of course. i want to get the facts. that's what we need to do. >> reporter: anderson, cornyn also praising the appointment of robert mueller as special prosecutor. he thinks that a joe lieberman were to get the nomination, he would get 100 votes. democrats are not there yet, but i am told by democratic sources tonight that it's increasingly likely that they'll allow an fbi director nominee to go along without a major fight, depending on who that person is, because they had said they wanted a special prosecutor named before they agreed to move forward on an fbi director nominee. so perhaps one fight averted. >> there are multiple investigations that we have been talking about in congress on russian interference, what
happens to them on the special counsel, do they continue on? because there's a number of them. >> reporter: they will continue on but the question is what happens, because there is a fair amount of information sharing between the intelligence community and these committees on capitol hill in order to move forward. how will the new special counsel deal with these investigations on capitol hill. we don't know that yet, the senate intelligence committee leaders issued a statement tonight saying they expect to have a back and forth with robert mueller. i think we'll get an indication tomorrow when rod rosenstein briefs the senate about what happened here, and i'm told that democrats had planned in a strategy session to pressure rosenstein to name a special prosecutor. now that he has, that session tomorrow could be a little less contentious. >> the appointment of former fbi director and respected lawyer robert mueller as a special counsel is a positive
development and will provide some certainty for the american people that the investigation will proceed fairly. they go on to say -- >> after the bombshell reporting last night that the president had told director comey or suggested director comey couldn't give michael flynn a break, many will want to know, did that in fact happen? and the only way they will know if that in fact happened, unless it is so egregious and it was obstruction of justice and there's criminality there, the only way they would know it happened would be open hearings. >> that's right. and i'm still struggling with the word deconflick shun. i've never heard that word before in my life.
public information will be disclosed, i don't think is quite as settled as alan does. it is possible that at the conclusion of mueller's investigation, he could file a public report. the independent counsel law, which kenneth starr filed a report, lawrence welch filed a report on iran contra. it is possible that he could file a report based on his investigation. >> u.s. attorneys have been much criticized for doing that. the job is to indict or not to indict. and what i'm concerned about, is that mueller has so much credibility, he may actually tell some of these congressional committees, please, limit your investigation, don't mess around with our investigation. >> don't people have the right to know if the president of the united states tried to stop an investigation? >> i think they do.
and that is why even though it has the potential to really hurt a president in their own party, republicans, who run these key committees on capitol hill, particularly in the senate, were trying to get james comey and still are trying to get james comey to testify in public, and the one thing we should underscore is how close james comey is to robert mueller, and the fact that people like lindsey graham and the judiciary committee were not able to set a date with james comey. and then suddenly poof, here's robert mueller as a special counsel. makes you wonder if there was a connection. >> this date back in 1973, was the first public hearing of the senate hearing on the president yalt -- presidential campaign hearings. joining me now, 44 years later
to the day, two people who were major figures in watergate, carl burnstein and john dean. as someone who worked in a white house that was under siege and investigated by special counsel, what do you imagine the mood is like in the west wing? >> i would imagine it's not a very happy mood tonight. during watergate, that nixon white house was highly compartmentalized, need to know, and work went on when other sections were more obsessed than those directly affected by investigations. so it probably in the trump white house isn't quite that smooth. they're still working out their staffing and it's -- this has happened very early in their presidency, so i'm sure it's a real ripple going through the operation. >> people in the white house, do they now see the special counsel as the enemy? i mean is that how he was viewed back in watergate? >> he wasn't to me. he probably was to some.
because while nixon didn't want a special counsel, he actually threw some names out and tried to influence it. i left before the special counsel was appointed and so i wasn't really there. carl actually covered the final days pretty well in his book. >> so carl, a, what about that, and also you heard the response from the white house, kind of measured although defined statement from president trump tonight. has this whole thing been put back on the rails for the time being? >> what's happened is that this country has gotten through a moment of intense danger and pulled back from a precipice, because the president of the united states has been out of control and talking in a way of defying and demeaning the rule of law. and he's now constrained by the rule of law. so this is an immense event, and it occurred because rod rosenstein, who had been
manipulated by the president, said enough. this cannot be. he tried to manipulate me in a statement that used me to justify the firing of comey. perhaps the attorney general of the united states was also complicit in that, jeff sessions. and therefore wasn't informed until about an hour after this occurred. we have a whole new set of circumstances here and it includes, as dana has pointed out, the republican party, but the republicans especially, not only can they breathe a sigh of relief, but they have been in a position of having to defend a president who many of them believe is not fit for office. that's what these four months have been about. the president of the united states through his tweets, through his public remarks, through his defiance of the rule of law has shown himself unfit for office and they have had to defend him and they no longer do.
there's whole new rule of law mechanism in place, and that's what happened in watergate, is that the rule of law prevailed. we now have a structure this which that might happen here. >> it will be interesting to see if president trump resists the impulse to criticize the special counsel, to tweet about it late at night or early in the morning. what do you think would have happened back in the '70s if president nixon would have loved twitter? >> i think richard nixon would have had trouble operating twitter. he had trouble with his desk drawer, and those bottles that you had to push down to turn medicine bottles, he would fight those, so i'm not sure he would be skilled at twitter. i have trouble going there actually. but can i add a footnote about what was reported through independent counsel. you go all the way back to jaworski, as special counsel, same status as mueller will
have, he did send a report to congress, went to the judge, got permission to provide the information to the house judiciary committee, and the judge granted it. the grand jury information was sent up. so there's a long precedent for this material going up to congress. >> as jeff pointed out earlier, this won't take months, this will possibly take years, just like watergate took years to finish. what impact does that have on the administration and the country in the meantime? will the republicans be able to move forward with their legislative agenda? >> first of all, the president of the united states, with what's been going on by his own making, has been unsuccessful in governing the country from the white house. this should be an opportunity for him, if he's really interested in the truth. if he's really interested in governing, let him go ahead and do what the president of the united states does. i don't think that's a very likely event here.
we need to get back to the central principle of what is occurring here, we have an ongoing investigation of whether or not the president of the united states and his associates have colluded with a hostile foreign power, that's what's at the bottom of this. and the other thing is the president of the united states has failed and resisted making his finances known and his dealings with russians, ethno russians, people in the former soviet empire, he's done an awful lot of business with them. that is going to be part of this investigation, in all likelihood. his sons have said, how much russian money has poured into their family coffers? i would be amazed if this is not a road that the special counsel is not going to go down. so now the president is in a position he has tried to resist and he no longer can effectively
as he has until now. >> let me tell you why it would be wrong to issue a report. remember what a prosecutor does. he has a play thing, it's called a grand jury. he can put anything in front of the grand jury. the grand jury hears only one side of the story, it's secret. no lawyers are allowed into that grand jury room, it is a fundamental denial of basic due process for the prosecutor to come to any conclusion about what happened. the only thing he has the right to do is to decide, based on his evidence, that there is probable cause to continue to have an indictment. anything he does beyond that is ultravirus and every civil libertarian should be appalled at it because there is no fairness in the way the prosecutor gathers evidence. it's one sided, he doesn't gather exculpatory evidence, he doesn't hear from the defense lawyer, he doesn't have objections from the defense lawyer, it is a kangaroo court.
it's an insult to kangaroo courts. >> i think that's an overstatement. but i do think there are other interests at play beside -- >> fairness and due process? >> actually the public's interest in this result that are -- >> we'll come back to you guys in a moment. joining us from the senate judiciary committee, democratic senator chris coons from delaware. robert mueller named as a special counsel. your reaction? >> anderson, i'm encouraged. his long record of service as a senior federal prosecutor and as former fbi director, suggests that he's exactly the sort of person that many of us hoped would be named for special counsel. he has previous experience stepping up to an overreach, an exercise of power by an administration and with standing them, under the bush administration, when he and a number of other law enforcement
officials threatened to resign if the president didn't respect their concerns about civil liberties. he's also a decorated marine vet ran and someone who i think will enjoy the respect of a wide range of members of congress. this is a positive and important step, anderson. >> to those americans who want to know, did the president try to get director comey to stop the investigation into general flynn, they may never get that information unless robert mueller determines that a law was broken. is there any concern that the other investigations going on in the senate, going on in the house, which have public hearings will not be able to inform the american people as much as they would like? >> as your panel has been discussing, anderson, that is a possible path. there will be prompt conversations between special counsel mueller and the senate intelligence committee. i think they need to coordinate. i would hope that the senate
intelligence committee hearings will move forward. the entire senate has in front of them rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, and there's a number of important questions that will still be asked of him about the role that attorney general sessions played in directing him to write the memo that led to comey's firing and whether or not he exceeded the scope of his recusal, and about what the president's role was in the firing of fbi director comey. as you just heard from carl bernstein, there's a number of other issues that have not yet been brought in front of either the senate judiciary committee or the intelligence committee, that i think are also going to be of concern to us. it is my hope, anderson, that at the end of this, there will be a public accounting of whether or not there was collusion between the trump campaign and russia. and it's important for public confidence in the rule of law
and in congress that that result be reached. >> do you have any sense of what kind of a timeline we're looking at in terms of the special counsel investigation? >> it's my expectation that the special counsel investigation will be fully staffed and resourced and the odds are that that will allow them to reach a conclusion sooner than they might have on the current trajectory, but it could take several months or several areas, because the current fbi investigation has a counterintelligence component and a possible criminal component. there's a lot of details to go through here, a lot of individuals to interview, and a lot of documents to review. because of former fbi director mueller's senior experience, i don't think it will take him long to get up to speed and to be engaged and to be an effective leader on this investigation, but the result may be a year or two away. >> chairman, senator grassley, who was appointing a special
prosecutor, said it doesn't matter if he thinks it's the right move. does it matter? >> i think what was striking was the number of my colleagues, republicans, who did not step forward and said we needed a special prosecutor, who did not step forward and say particularly after last night's alarming allegations in the press, that we need to get to the bottom of this and we need to understand whether or not our president has been inappropriately sharing highly and pressure the fbi director to drop an investigation of his national security adviser. i think it's striking. and i think in the end, the general public wants to know whether or not senators, both republicans and democrat, are going to work together in a responsible and bipartisan way to get to the bottom of this. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. just ahead, more reaction to all of tonight's big developments. it's our first commercial break in an hour. we'll be right back.
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we're drowning in information. where, in all of this, is the stuff that matters? the stakes are so high, your finances, your future. how do you solve this? you don't. you partner with a firm that advises governments and the fortune 500, and, can deliver insight person to person, on what matters to you. morgan stanley. in the hours before the justice department named robert mueller as special prosecutor in the russia investigation, many republicans were resisting that step and urged caution over the allegations. here is what paul ryan said earlier today. >> there are a lot of unanswered questions. what i told our members is now is the time to gather all the pertinent information. we can't deal with speculation and innuendo. and there's clearly a lot of
politics being played. >> democrats were having none of it. here is elijah cummings. >> speaker ryan has shown he has zero -- zero, zero appetite for any investigation of president trump. >> two different points of view, both represented here with the panel. kelly, what's your reaction to the naming of mueller? >> many of us had full faith in the justice department and rod who proved himself tonight when he did appoint a special prosecutor. he thought it was in the best interest for everyone. i think he was correct in that. this is good for the trump administration for two reasons. many of us have been saying there's no evidence of collusion, no evidence. this is going to force the democratic -- the democratic hand when in fact you have an independent prosecutor coming out and saying there's no evidence of russian collusion. they cannot attack the messenger
here. >> the prosecutor would just say there's evidence of illegality, not whether there's collusion. >> when he says there's no charges put forth, that will be a good thing for the trump administration. number two, the last eight years we have seen his trust in american institutions demolished at the justice department when bill klepten meet with loretta lynch. this will restore the american people's trust in institutions amid a partisan environment. good all the way around. >> wait a minute. hasn't president trump gone after american institutions more than any president in recent memory? the intelligence community, the justice department. he goes after it all the time. >> that's what he came to washington to do. burn it to the ground, destroy the so-called deep state who is out there to attack him and leaking left and right. >> can we cut through the crap here? donald trump will be held accountable.
what will hold the republicans accountable who enabled this man to go this far? we knew from day one what kind of person donald trump was. we knew that he had no respect for anyone let alone the rule of law. i want to know what's going to happen to people like reince priebus who demanded everyone in the gop pledge loyalty to this guy and now all these republicans are handcuffed to donald trump. where has this gotten us? where are the surrogates that barked and claps like circus seals? investigates as far as the eye can see. >> don't interrupt. let her finish. >> are you feeling good about that? >> how about letting her finish? >> i want to know. i think republicans like you who have given your loyalty to donald trump, what has he done for you? he dragged you into a terrible place. >> actually, if i look at what donald trump has done for me and middle class america, he has brought down the illegal border crossing by 60%. he has renegotiated trade agreements. >> is it worth it? >> he brought unemployment down to a low level.
he is restoring american confidence in jobs. he pulled out of tpp. he is doing all -- give him credit where there has been credit. >> i'm not giving him credit. he is dragging down -- >> okay. hold on. let's focus on the actual news tonight, mueller. paul, i mean for those -- >> can i -- >> for those americans -- >> that doesn't mean -- >> for those americans who want to know, did the president of the united states try to stop director comey from investigating michael flynn, they may never get that answer because maybe there was not enough evidence to bring a case against it in which case we won't hear anything from director mueller. >> we don't flow that. getting back to the debate that the professor had. many independent councils feel a need for the public interest to report. that's controversial. you are supposed to speak with an indictment. that might prompt a report.
i would say, donald trump ran on a pledge of law and order and god help him he is going to get it. mr. mueller is a credible law enforcement official. he is going to get to the bottom of it. he may be pristinely innocent. and i will accept that if that's what we find. he is sweating bullets now. the next big story is the president has to lawyer up. he needs to lawyer up. right away. the white house counsel doesn't represent donald trump. he represents -- >> they were saying he should do that now. >> yesterday. >> by the way, he may well have. >> probably already has. >> we don't know. he has had a lawyer in the past in new york city. he is a civil lawyer. whether he retained a criminal lawyer, i don't know. >> but he's the lawyer also representing the russian company. >> what a coincidence. >> let me point out something. we have had independent prosecutors or special counsels going back to 1875. grant named the first one because of the whiskey ring or
something going on there. there have been 20 since 1983. this isn't something unusual. jimmy carter had to deal, ronald reagan, bill clinton. >> ronald reagan never had -- >> but let me say this. >> let him finish. >> let me say this. as somebody who was involved with the campaign, i absolutely do believe they're going to show there's no collusion. what's going to happen then is some of the partisans aren't going to be as satisfied or as kind as paul. are they going to say he didn't have the resources he needed, he didn't have the right lawyers, are the republicans -- >> mr. mueller will tell us. will you be of good faith? i believe he will let justice department know, maybe congress know. senator franken raised about it, he needs to be resourced. >> he wouldn't have agreed to do
of the trump campaign. >> just to state the obvious that we all know, the president shoots from the hip. i'm not sure there was a ton of fore thought into what he said about sessions. i think he was honest and blunt about his feelings at that moment in time. they are feelings that he has had on and off for some time now. the russian investigation as we all know kind of won't go away as a story line partly because there's an open investigation but also because the president is preoccupied with it and he brings it up all the time, in private conversations and apparently in public ones. >> i think there's a real concern in terms of the comments he's made obviously because they also seem to indicate that, you know, first he wants loyalty from comey, now he wants loyalty or allegiance from attorney general, like he's wanting to run this the way he runs his business, which is not the way the government works and certainly not the way the justice department works, which is an independent institution. these senior officials take an oath to the constitution, not donald trump, and he fundamentally misunderstands
that. >> if he wants to run it the way he runs his business, shouldn't those around him remember he's gone bankrupt four times? i want to share what he said about robert mueller. >> mueller was looking at your finances and your family's finances unremitted to russia, is that a red line? >> would that be a breach of what his actual charge is? >> i would say yeah, i would say yes. >> that's a red line. you cannot go into my family's finances. once robert muler is in that kitchen, he's in there. >> it's called an independent investigation for a reason. the whole purpose of this exercise is not to exonerate donald trump or prove his innocence. it's to get to the truth, wherever it may take us. and the american people deserve to know whether their president a operating in the american's interests or his own business or financial interests. this is a completely fair question to be asked. >> does donald trump have any point in that if robert mueller's job is not to
exonerate donald trump, it's also not his job to look under every rock there possibly is to see if he, you know, cheated on his homework in 1962. >> i just think mueller -- >> which i'm going to take a guess he probably did. which you know what, i may have as well. >> procedurally, he's in a very awkward spot now because trump has eventually said i will fire him if he gets into this area of inquiry. if the investigation leads him there, i'm sure he'll feel compelled to proceed and risk being fired but that of course would be totally counterproductive to the entire effort. >> which goes into this bizarre history he's created, this alternative universe he's created where somehow rod rosenstein told him to fire comey and rod rosenstein also stacked him in the back by appointing mueller. the president's inability to put together basic chronology of what his own behavior lead to is part of what makes this interview so bizarre. we've seen rambling things from trump before, but i don't think he knows what he did yesterday
let alone the consequences of what he'll do today. >> making him a defense attorney's nightmare and a prosecutor's dream. i want to share more of what he said when he was specifically talking about his conversation with vladimir putin. >> it was not a long conversation, but it was, you know, could be 15 minutes. just talked about things. i actually talked about russian adoption with him, which is interesting because that was a part of the conversation that don had in that meeting. >> okay. ewing my president trump decoder ring, adoptions means sanctions. does the president not understand that whether that meeting was 15 minutes or 50 minutes sanctions and adoptions are one and the same and you sit down with vladimir putin, you are getting in the way of some serious foreign policy issues. >> apparently not, which of course is pretty surprising given all of what's unfolded with his son and the meeting that they had and all of the conversations that, you know, we've had since then about adoption, the magnitsky act,
collusion. so it's pretty surprising that, you know, he is seemingly unawares. but the reality is when you look at trump's behavior, when you read the rest of the interview and look at statements he's made in the past, he really doesn't seem to know a lot about what's going on with any of us. he doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of the investigation and why it matters. he doesn't seem to understand why sessions recused himself and the importance of having an investigation that has integrity and how having an investigation with integrity can benefit him if he doesn't have anything to hide. he doesn't understand that his attorney general is not his junior employee who he can expect to put his personal political interest before the american people. it's really a problem across the board and it comes through clearly in this interview. >> there's something else to hide. 17 million bucks. 17 large. "new york times" reported paul manafort in the hole to russian
interests, going into the campaign for 17 large. >> right. >> how do we square this one off? >> well, i mean, manafort's obviously got a very serious problem here and, you know, he's one of the key individuals in these inquiries. so it's just putting more detail on what is already a very serious issue for him among others. >> i need a quick yes/no. does jeff sessions quit? >> no. >> yes. >> yes. >> that's what makes markets. we'll soon find out. we have to turn to some other news, news that shook capitol hill shgt i want to shay it shook the world last night. senator john mccain diagnosed with brain cancer. this was revealed after he underwent surgery this week for a blood clot just above his left eye. msnbc's garrett haake is on capitol hill. garrett, you were on the hill seemingly all day, all night yesterday speaking to lawmakers as they learn this news. what are you hearing?
>> yeah, stepny. let me set the scene for you last night. we had about 15 or 20 republican senators meeting behind closed doors on health care. this is a senators only meeting. their aides weren't even in the room. they were sort of cloistered away last night when this news broke. lindsey graham, who is john mccain's best friend in washington, d.c., and probably his best friend who he's not immediately related to, was on the phone with john mccain when he walked into that meeting room. he broke the news to rest of the senators. they were absolutely stunned by this, depressed. they sort of stomed the meeting right in their tracks and asked one of the member who is's a former pastor back in oklahoma to say a prayer for john mccain right then and there. they tried to keep working after that, but everyone we talked to coming out including lindsey graham, especially lindsey graham, so emotional about not having this person who served as the spiritual leader of the republican party in the senate. here was lindsey graham talking to our cameras right after that meeting late last night.
>> pray. i don't know, god knows how this ends, not me, but i do know this -- this disease has never had a more worthy opponent. >> a >> reporter: one of the things he said was after about five minutes of conversation about the tumor, john mccain was talking about passing a defense authorization. he was talking about health care. he was talking about the work. he urged his republican colleagues to get back to work and that's what we're going to see here shortly this morning. >> john mccain is a great american and certainly a fighter. let's turn to nbc news medical contributor dr. natalie azar. dr. natalie, john mccain's family in their statements have said they are weighing treatment options. what kind of options are they here? >> the standard course of therapy is chemotherapy and radiation after the tumor was surgically resected. that's the standard of care. with that, the median survival is roughly 14 months. five-year survival statistics about 5 to 17%.
things that factor into the prognosis are age, so older age patients tend to have a worse outcome. >> his 80, but his mom, i want so say she's 105. >> amazing. we know he's strong guy so i certainly have all the faith there. they also study the tumor and look at two specific markers that will predict how well he responds to chemo and will know the result and the status of those in about a week or two. a little early to say exactly what path is going to be followed but the standard of care again is resection, you hope to get as much out as you can according to the scans, they did get a complete resection, which is great, and then chemo and radiation would be the standard of care. >> well, we are certainly sending him all of our prayers, and we know he's going to get the very best treatment. dr. natalie, thank you so much. next, cbo scores, straight repeal of obamacare, and those numbers, they ain't good. founding member of the freedom caucus congressman jim jordan, explains what he thinks it needs to be repealed even without a
replacement. but before we go, the celebration day for president trump. the six-month anniversary of his inauguration. we've spoken before about his low poll numbers. but how does he compare to past presidents at this point in their tenure? according to gallup, he is by far the lowest approval rating at this point of any of the last six presidents. the only other one even below 55% at the six-month mark, bill clinton. and you know bill clinton had a rough first year. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and.
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my message today is really simple. we have to stay here, we shouldn't leave town, and we should hammer this out and get it done. >> president trump there demanding that republicans remain in d.c. until they have a plan to repeal and replace obamacare. just hours later, nearly two dozen senators met to hash out their differences. >> we still do have work to do to get to a vote of 50, but people are committed to continuing that work. >> we've just got a ways to go yet. it will take a little more patience. >> i don't think we're as far as some people think they are but there's work to be done, no doubt. >> trying to get to 50. working on it. >> any closer? >> hard to say. >> i'm joined by ohio republican congressman jim jordan, a founding member of the house freedom caucus. congressman, i know you want to vote to repeal the aca even if there's no replacement ready. you've had a lot of time to come up with a replacement.
why would another year or two make any difference? >> well, senator mccain has said this, if you can repeal it first, that may be the catalyst you need to create the momentum you need for actually a bipartisan solution where we could work on some of the things that the more moderate members of the republican conference and democrats are really focus on like some of the medicaid expansion issues, the opioid issues, as well as some of those things we believe on the conservative side would bring down premiums like expanding health savings accounts, easier formation of association health plans, and interstate shopping for insurance. so that's the kind of trade that can be set up if you first repeal it, which everyone onos we have to do, and oh by the way, what we told the american people we were going to do when they elected us. >> not everyone knows we have to replace it. i would say there's consensus that it has to be improved. and do you have to replace it and take that kind of risk to motivate people to work together? the cbo says we could see nearly 17 million more people go
uninsured by next year alone. premiums doubling in 2 1/2 years. why repeal it and say i'm going to put a gun to your head to work together? why not not just work together? >> first of all, it never hurts to do what you said nap's what we told the american people we were going to do in 2010, 2014, 2016s when we won elections on that issue. >> you said repeal and replace, not just repeal. >> so let's repeal it then replace it in another piece of legislation. they can happen at the same time. that's not quite working out in the same bill, but they can happen in the same time two different bills or repeal it then get to the replace. second, cbo, this the same cbo who said when obamacare passed that 21 million americans would be on obamacare right now when in fact the numb inter9 million. the same cbo that said when the medicaid expansion happen under obamacare the cost would be $4600. instead it's $6200. >> the cbo -- >> it go the facts that have happen wrd cbo has been wrong
countless times. second, and you guys never talk about this, our repeal bill says it's not effective until december 31st, 2018. if it were passed today and president trump would sign it tomorrow, there's a year and a half before it takes effect. that's time for what i just described, people to come together and put together a replacement plan that will bring down premiums, which have risen dramatically under obamacare, and if you can pay your premium, can you afford the four, six, eight thousand dollar deduckable so many plans have that so many are experiencing. that's how we can come together and solve problems for american families. >> you said yesterday you have a full understanding of what the american people want. i'm looking at the this new cnn poll that says 35% want to abandon the repeal only if you're going to then have an immediate replacement. it doesn't seem like the american people want to take this risk. it seems like it's a campaign promise that you want to just
check off. >> no. we want to do what we told the american people we were going to do, what we think is best. never forget where we're at and never forget what the democrats told the american people when they passed this terrible thing called obamacare. remember all the false statements we were told. like your plan, chemoyour plan. like your doctor, keep your doctor. we were told premiums would go down. the president of the united states said premiums would go down on average $2,500. we were told the website was going to work. we were told the website information on their was secure. we were told that emergency room visits could trade deadline. they've went up. and we were told these co-ops would be wonderful. >> you are right. >> 18 of the 22. everything we were told -- >> and that -- >> this law has to be repealed. let's do it as soon as possible with the effective date in the future a year and a half. that gives us time to putting to the replacement. >> there are loads of obamacare problems. that is one of the reasons president trump won the election. >> right. >> it is also why republicans
control it all. so why can't you get your house together? you don't need democrats. you can blame democrats but you near the most beautiful position. you don't need them. >> you know what, stephanie? you're right. we did that in the house. we did come together. we had an intense debate in the house. i know because of that intense debate we conservatives made the bill that left the house a better piece of legislation that actually brought down premiums. so let's hope the senate can do the same thing there and have the same process up fold over there. if they don't, we started the process yesterday with doing a discharge petition, bringing out the clean repeal and doing again what we told the american people we were going to do. >> is president trump your ally here? yesterday he said republicans do a poor job of trying to explain this and sell the new health care idea, this new bill, yet i'm reading the interview he did with "the new york times" where he's talking about entitlements and i want to share a quote where he says, you know, you're 21 years old, you start working and you're paying 12 bucks a year for insurance and by the
time you're 70 you get a nice plan. it's as though the president has a very sophomoric understanding of how health care works. so is the president your advocate here? is he helping you sell this? >> i think the president's helping us on this issue and a host of others. i think what has to happen is congress has to do what we said. again, we make this job way too complicated. i know what i told the voters in the fourth district of ohio. i know in crawford county i get -- today there is not one single plan offered in the exchange, not one plan if you live in crawford county, ohio. so i know what's happened to folks. i know what i told them i was do. that's what i'm focused on accomplishing. i think the president is doing the same thing spop let's simply do what we said, do what the american people sent us here to accomplish. >> all right. if it doesn't have to be that complicated, does it mean you'll vote on it next week and it will pass? >> we've already voted on it in the house, stephanie. we seal what happens in the
senate. senator mcconnell said bring up the repeal, our leadership won't bring up that bill so we've start the process to make an end run around that and bring a discharge position to the floor and vote on a clean repeal. >> good luck. >> thank you. up next, senator elizabeth warren joins me on everything from the russia investigation to a new report card on president trump's first six months. and speaking of president trump's first six months, monday he made this claim. >> we've signed for bills and i'm talking about through the legislature, than any president ever. >> 42 bills signed so far top the two previous presidents but it is fewer than bill clinton. and of those bills nearly one-third of them are aimed at pulling back rules put in place by president obama. well, president trump said he doesn't like to get pinocchios. i'm afraid at this rate he's going to be getting quite a few.
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there's a new report card out that shows he's fallen fall short in fulfilling one of his key promises from the campaign -- draping the swamp in washington. joining me is the author of that report card, a report card in the summer? nobody wants one of those. senator elizabeth warren. i want to talk about the report card but i have to ask you about a colleague of yours, john mccain, a man you've known for years and years. what is your reaction to his diagnosis and the mood among your fellow lawmakers? >> you know, we're all just stunned. john is tough and has been in every fight, and the idea that he's facing something like this is just a shock to everyone here. he's a good man, and i know he'll be strong in this fight, the fight for his life. >> a great man. let's talk about you and the report card you've been working on over the last few weeks. you put together this report card on president trump's efforts to drain the swamp in
washington. he talked so much about it, speeches he gave about the goldman sachs partners that hillary clinton would be lining the halas of the white house with, and mind you the president has done so. you've given him an f. at least it wasn't an f-minus, and you found that his administration and his transition team has included 1993 lobbyists and corporate insiders. can you put that in context for me in terms of his entire administration and how that's impacted policies? >> so, look, washington works great right now for giant corporations. and one of the prince. reasons is because they can hire an army of lobbyists to get out there and make sure that their point of view is represented in every decision that gets made in government. it's just not working so great for the rest of america. so when trump promised to drain the swamp during a campaign, i thought that's something really important. and i want to keep track of what he does. and instead of draining the swamp, here it is, he's brought
in 193 lobbyists, corporate executives, corporate consultants, and they're in every part of government making key decisions. the department of education. what's happened they've already rolled back rules to protect student borrowers so that the corporate interests can make more money. you watch the same thing happening, for example, in the department of the treasury. they're looking at whether or not to roll back some of the regulations that were put in place after the 2008 financial crisis. and what have they done? they've come up with a list of regulations to be rolled back. and here's how it's described by the industry. it is the big bank's wish list. same kind of thing is happening
over in the drug industry. put together a team of people to try to deal with the question of rising drug costs, and donald trump puts a lobbyist in charge and now the lobbyist is coming up with an initial draft that looks like exactly what it is that the big drug companies want, not what families want. this matters to people on a day by day-by-day basis that donald trump has put the corporate lobbyists in charge of running our government. >> unform, report cards can get slid under beds, in the back of drawers. what can actually be done? when i think about some of those photographs i've seen with president trump signing executive orders, well, he has a ceo like andrew liverest of dow chemical standing next to him saying maybe we should call this the dow bill. people that make dangerous pesticides. maybe they'll be legal again.
steve schwartzman, a ceo from blackstone, joining president trump on that trip to saudi arabia, where blackstone raised a cool $40 billion in permanent capital from the saudi family. these are not just anecdotes. these are bad things. what can be done about them? >> so, the first thing we try to do is to get some accountability, and that's why senator whitehouse and i put this report together, is to try to say here's what's happening. it's one more example, just as others have done, of trying to twaef flag, trying to make it clear what's going on, because that is the first step at accountability. the second step is too to try to get the word out, i posted this on my website, i snow that senator whitehouse will be doing the same, to send it around to everybody that we can because it is only when the voices of the people are heard that we're going to be able to fight back against this. i believe in accountability for government.
right now that's going to take people across the country, it's going the take grassroots saying, wait a minute, i see what you're doing, donald trump, and it's not okay with me. that's our first step. >> knost people would not be surprised that you gave the president an f. what do you say to those who say great, elizabeth warren, this is just a partisan argument, we've heard it, you're anti-trump, what do you say to them? >> it's 193 lobbyists and corporate claonsultants that donald trump has brought in to help advise him and then help him run the government. the document is there. read the numbers. you can't ignore the facts any longer. that's what's happening in washington. and be clear, the american people know what's going on. they're not fooled. >> the american people want solutions. you've been anti-trump, opposed to the republicans' health care
efforts. president trump says, for example, in health care, single pay yes, something you have pushed for, will bankrupt america. do you believe it's a resolution that could help america? i think we have three things we need to do on the health care front. the first is we need to defend what we have right now and that means not let 32 million people get knocked off health care. when there's a vote next week as mitch mcconnell has said there will be, we need to defeat the effort to repeal the affordable care act. the second thing we need to do is bring down costs, for example, the cost of prescription drugs. i have a bill with bernie sanders and others that says we can import those drugs from canada where often they are paying one-tenth of what we're paying here in the united states. >> are there any republicans willing to work on that bill? because partisanship is the only way you're going to get anywhere. >> we are certainly reaching out and we're certainly open to
that. you know, the problem of high cost for prescription drugs is not just a democratic problem. it's a problem that faces democrats, republicans, independents. i talked to people all across massachusetts who tell me i'm paying $162 a month for this prescription drug. i could buy it in canada for less than half that. i'm paying $300 on prescription drugs, $500 on prescription drugs. and the drug companies just keep raising prices, raising prices and raising prices. we've got to be willing to push back against that and bring down the costs, bring down the costs for families and bring down the costs for insurance companies because that will help bring down the cost of insurance overall. and, yeah, when we do that, we also need to talk about how we get more coverage across america. you know, how we expand medicare so it's available to more americans. so i think we've got all three
parts, defend what we've got exexpand what we've got, and then let's have a serious conversation about how he get better coverage through medicare. those are the ways we can get full coverage and help bring down costs for all of us. >> i have to ask you about president trump's comments about his own attorney general, jeff sessions, yesterday. telling "new york times," sessions never should have recused himself and if he was going to, he should have told me before he took the job and i would have picked someone else. what do you make of this? is it almost a gift that president trump continues to -- >> no. >> -- mud dpi di the waters and ghefrt to an agenda? >> you know, no, it is not a gift. i'm here to fight for working families. it means the business for working families is not being done. trump's rash about jeff sessions are one more example of how --
he's not interested in following the law and he's not interested in protecting anyone but himself. i opposed jeff sessions for attorney general of the united states, but let's be clear, his recusing himself is simply following the law. that is what the department of justice requires. he followed the rules. for donald trump to say, gee, i really wanted an attorney general who wouldn't follow the rules is just like i said, one more example. donald trump has only one thing in mind, and that is how can everything profit donald trump. >> if you opposed jeff sessions before, now he recused himself, sounds like donald trump wants him out. do you want him to quit? >> i'd be very glad for him to quit and get someone else in as attorney general of the united states. i believe firmly jeff sessions should not be the number-one lawmaker in america. he is right now the one who is responsible for enforcing our laws, and his views on many of
those laws i think head us in the wrong direction. on civil rights, on drug, on private prisons. there are many reasons for jeff sessions not to be attorney general. >> you think president trump's next pick would be better? >> we can have that fight. but jeff sessions in major areas is trying to pull us in the wrong direction. >> elizabeth warren sending president trump back to summer school. nobody wants an f. thanks for joining me. >> take care. up next, much more from donald trump's explosive and i'm going to say it bizarre interview with "the new york times." how he defends the correlation between don junior's russian meeting and his attacks on hillary clinton. but today we've been talking about it all morning. today is the six-month mark for president trump. one thing he does get very high marks for is the stock market,
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hillary clinton and i said, i mean, that's standard political stuff. >> did you know at the time that they had the meeting? >> no, i didn't know anything about the meeting. >> that's not standard political stuff. that was more of president trump's interview with "the new york times" talking about his son and son-in-law's meeting with the russian lawyer. this comes after the white house and trump's political team said president trump was not aware of any meeting between his son, don junior, and a russian lawyer. kate kelly and jason johnson. kate, president trump is saying he heard about the request for the meet bug then saying he didn't know about the meeting. are voters going to buy this? >> i don't know if they will, but i'm not sure his base will give a darn. i mean, i think it's more of the same. i mean, he doesn't use e-mail, right so, he goes off memory many times. he has aides that help prefresh his memory when he needs that. in this case, you could make a case that he knew about it or didn't know about it. he then goes on to say, well,
you know, i talked often on the stump about -- i often beat up hillary clinton and talked about her ties to russia and receiving money for speeches and so on. so he tries to sort of equivocate. it's just not clear. >> let's play that because it doesn't necessarily matter if it's his voters who care. does robert mueller care? listen. >> you give speech that night saying you're going to gave speech about how hillary clinton's corrupt dealings with russia and other countries, and that comes just three hours after don junior -- >> number one, remember, i made many of those speeches. >> people wondered about the timing. >> i go after it all the time. >> this is ahead of their visit to capitol hill. don junior, paul manafort, jared kushner. to simply say that this is politics, we learned from "the new york times" paul manafort in the hole to russian interests 17 million bucks pap few nice meetings and a tip of the hat, that would sure help clear that kind of dough. >> just quickly, start of peter baker to bring up the time line. he wrote a story on this last week.
it was three hours late they're he promised a big bombshell on this topic so that is somewhat damning. >> at this point it's hard to believe this all happened in the building that he didn't know that he detective know in advance, we've fot 8 million people, the number of people at this meeting, manafort, kushner, boris and natasha, smirnov, everybody was in this room. >> yakov smirnoff was not in the room. >> at this point i wouldn't doubt it nap's the thing. it's so disingenuous. i have to say this. this idea that this is just common politics, you get this e-mail, if anybody here got an e-mail from a deposed african prince saying i got $20 million for you, you don't respond to that either. the president to suggest from a foreign enemy that it was just okay that he would, this is a problem. >> nigerian e-mail scammers, get don junior's e-mail address. >> exactly. >> without sounding like an apologist for the president, i think this is yet another reflection of his inexperience in politics, his somewhat narrow experience of running a private family real estate organization.
think about how he thinks about things and how he free associates. the topic of rod rosenstein comes up. he's ticked off because rosen steep is from baltimore where there are very few republicans. that's his reaction. he's not thinking in a sort of thoughtful, logical way. >> for republicans. listening to this. the only take-away should be opportunity lost. this was an opportunity of a lifetime for republicans to get to their agenda. and listen to what the president said when asked about his ties with russian businessmen. it's extraordinary. >> i mean, it's possible there's a condo or something, so, you know, i sell a lot of condo units and somebody from russia buys a condo, who knows? i don't get any money from russia. they said i own buildings in russia. i don't. they said i made money from russia. it's not my thing. i don't do that. >> no one said he owns buildings in russia. they said he got money from russia. he's a licenser. he doesn't build them and pay
for them himself. >> i have to say i think the condo point is a smart point because it's a good way to explain there might be some links there, i have connections to many, many real estate units in the u.s. and beyond if some russians bought my condo, that might be a legitimate and irrelevant thing to this investigation. he's kind of doing what he does, which is here, media, follow the ball this way, and investigation is happening over here. >> media won't fall for this nonsense but robert mueller can quickly find out if all these condos are sold to shell companies, sold at off-market properties like his estate in palm beach he buys for 40 and sells for 90. in i'm robert mueller, i don't look the other way. >> he'll fire robert mueller before anything happens and the republican party will sit there with their hands in their pockets and say we didn't know what to do. >> correct. >> how low can you go. >> i don't know. >> he loves the hip-hop. we have to take a break.
next, could the juice be set loose? o.j. simpson has his parole hearing this afternoon. we'll go live to the prison on what we expect to happen today. you liked that. you didn't know that was coming. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..."
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can't forget o.j. today. in a few hours, a western nevada correctional facility will hold what many are calling the parole hearing of the century. after serving nine years for armed robbery and other charges, o.j. simpson will appear via video link before a parole board 130 miles away. simpson needs just four of the six commissioners to vote for parole to become a free man. nbc's katie beck is in nevada with more. how long before we can can expect a decision? >> this decision is expected to be handed down fairly quickly, within an hour or so of the hearing's completion, we're told. that hearing will take place in carson city. simpson will be here at the facility, video conferenced in. he will be in a room with about 15 other people, some of his own supporters, his daughter, his sister are expected to attend as well as a friend, his attorney and a case worker will all be in that room with simpson. he will be able to address the board, make his case for why he
deserves parole and also take their questions. they will be looking at a risk assessment as to whether or not they think o.j. poses a risk. they'll be looking at things like prior history, his disciplinary actions while incarcerated. they'll be looking at things like his first incarceration, age at incarceration and then they'll make a determination whether or not to grant parole once they decide on whether or not to grant or deny, they will make that decision. o.j. will not be released today. he will have to wait, at the earliest, october 1st would be the first day he would be eligible to be released. >> o.j. simpson hoping to become a free man. we'll take a break next. attorney general after a tough night hearing about that interview that president trump did with "the new york times." jeff sessions is speaking out. what he has to say. ♪
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there was more bad news on that front. a new poll found that 38% of americans approve of the way donald trump is handling his job as president. 56% disapprove. it also found that just 24% trust almost all or most of what they hear from the white house. 73% say they trust some or nothing at all of what they hear from the white house. hours before that poll was released the president wrote on twitter the trump basis is stronger and bigger than ever before. he saved his toughest criticism from a sitting u.s. senator. it started this morning when he wrote interesting to watch senator richard blumenthal then never in u.s. history has anyone lied or defrauded voters like
blumenthal. he told about his conquests, how brave he was and it was all a lie. he cries like a baby and begged for forgiveness like a child. now he judges collusion. more than eight and a half hours later he finished with this. i think senator blumenthal shauld should take a long vacation in vietnam so he could at least say he was tlchlt he served his country in the marine reserving during the war but was not deployed to vietnam. >> there are growing ominous threats, tweets and warnings that we have seen, the world has seen that -- 200 of the trump
years. how am i doing? i'm president, right? i was going to fire comey knowing there was no good time to do it. in fact when i decided to do it i said to myself, i said, you know, this thing with trump and russia is a made up story. no politician in history, and i say this with great has been treated worse or more unfairly. and i never asked once what the new nato headquarters cost. i refused to do that, but it is beautiful. >> you were referring to the testimony of james comey vindicating you. >> no collusion. no obstruction. he is a leaker. i heard it was 17 agencies. said boy, that's lot. do we even have that many intelligence agencies? it's an honor to be with you.
thank you. by the way, just a question. did president obama ever come to a jamboree? some times they say he doesn't act presidential. with the exception of the late great abraham lincoln i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. >> that's a walk back through contemporary history. let's bring in national political reporter for washington post, robert costa. senior white house correspondent. we are so fortunate that covering the president's working vacation in new jersey means the first ever studio visit by our friend the white house bureau chief phillip rucker.
it is very important that we call this a working vacation. it not content to nick a sitting u.s. resident. he is working. 4e h they will be adding a brief b on the opiod epidemic. she having a lot of time to fret over this russia investigation which continues to expand. >> i was watching you watching that compilation. how does it feel? you lived all of those moments firsthand. >> we loved those. this was a remarkable start to this presidency.
it's not anything we ever accepted before. >> robert costa, what have you been able to ascertain about the president's state of mind? >> i'm not a psychologist but i will say when it comes to his behavior not much has changed. he has had a change in personnel. general john kelly, my sources in the west wing say general kelly is trying to stabilize the staff. he is not trying to change the way the president operates. and you see an knowledgement across this white house that these tweets, this kind of combative social media behavior will continue, will not abate because this is who president trump is. >> margaret, let's talk about general kelly. you among other journalists were reporting that perhaps a new
sheriff might moderate what he says. so much for that after today. what have you been able to learn about his communications inside the west wing and elsewhere with members of the staff. >> one is to send clear signals and their engagements amongst themselves. the other is on issue that is general kelly picks out. it's easy to look at the twitter storm today and say that's out the window. trump showed him. there are some areas they are surging the president to use case.
he has been more careful talking about north korea and venezuela. and if he wants to go off on the immediate ma it's probably not his priority at this point. >> because you spent so much time and attention the dome after all right over your shoulder. i want to talk about some of these poll numbers with you. 73% don't trust all or some of what's coming out of this white house. six in ten americans define this presidency as a failure thus far and don't find the president honest thus far. they have to in effect run on this. >> that is very true. in the last six months we have seen a revolution about their
expectations. i used to think months ago maybe the president would change and be more of a main treem republican. just like thoughts on the staff those are gone out the window on capitol hill. with health care having been becaused paused or maybe even dead there's a prayer among republicans that the economy continues to be pretty steady. i think a tax cut and business growth more than anything they could count on is what will protect them next year when they try to keep the house and senate. >> where is he getting the notion of it expanding? >> i don't know where he is getting that because it's just not. one of the most striking statistics is that his base is
actually softening. it's a real problem inside the white house and they are aware of it. they are trying to work on it. trump what he sees are these rallies. it was sold out last week. he sees the enthusiasm. he sees the attention on twitter. when you actually measure the support out in a country it is softening from where it was last november. >> we have not heard a lot since the numbers have -- >> he thinks they all fake. >> that's right. >> seriously. his political operation in the white house, especially kelly ann conway, they are look at these very closely. they do some of their own measurements internally and keeping an eye on it. they are keeping an eye on the softening of support. >> is there a metric of judging the general kelly administration as a subset within the trump west wing? what do you think he would be comfortable in being judged on?
>> my sense is that he would prefer not to be talked about all of the time. one is how much fighting you see. i think the mcmaster scenario is an interesting one to watch. he effectively helped to on some level shut that down. you see this really active campaign continuing. part of the mandate will be to stop the very public fighting among some of these kind of cross currents. the early indications are he demands a good degree of fear. i think it will take several weeks to understand his thinking
on all of the personnel moves as well as his thinking of how the president can reset some of his relationships with congress. >> and you are is new head of the white house correspondence association i guess because you had so much free time as it is. >> i wasn't doing anything else. >> i know we were able to see this as of late. do you think it's a trend that's here to stay? >> i think it is back by default unless we hear otherwise. president seems to be okay with it. general kelly seems to be okay with it. she certainly seems comfortable. i would expect the press corp. to expect it is a matter of course. >> you want to get anything in before we take a break?
>> on the point about general mcmaster, we have all of the reporting that the trump base is very unhappy with him. the president thinks it's a crucial decision to increase number of troops there. it's one of the key decisions for him so far in this presidency. it is about more than steve bannon. it is what does he really want to have in the middle east. >> we'll take our first break here. thanks to our initial panel. coming up the president may be on vacation but there's one man still working back in washington this week. that would be robert muller, the latest on the russia investigation, when the 11th hour continues. we are just getting underway. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps.
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designed to save you money. we don't engage in fishing expeditions. >> in the course of the issues he is looking at, if he finds evidence of a crime, can he look at that? >> if he finds evidence of a crime that's within the scope of what we agreed is the appropriate scope then he can. >> that is rob rosenstein discussing the ongoing investigation. as the president and his aids continue to dismiss it as a
hoax, a witch hunt, a fabrication, robert and his team continue to investigate any role russia may have played in the 2016 election. joining our conversation tonight joyce advance back on the broadcast, a 25 year veteran federal prosecutor. she spent almost eight years and was among the first u.s. attorneys appointed by president barack obama, robert costa and phill phill phillip rucker remaybe with uin. >> did you find his commented pointed or routine? zbli thought they were pointed. he is concerned with the law with the facts, with doing the right thing. i don't see him as being someone who would be very interested in
political spinner buffeted by the politics surrounding this investigation. i think you hear him saying that here when he tells you he can investigate anything that's fair lifr within the scope of the special council ground. >> what's the motivation for you to grant an interview? he has been an inside player. he has been the kind of guy that has not enjoyed the limelight. we have been lead to see that he has received or seeing his name in the media. >> it is an interesting point. i can't remember the last time a sitting deputy attorney general made a sunday morning television appearance like this. he is not someone who enjoys the limelight. he is not someone that feels the need to self-promote. he is a very serious career prosecutor, probably one of the longest running u.s. attorneys in our country's history serving both republican and democratic
administrations. if mr. rosenstein is doing something he sympatthinks it is important. he referred tremendorepeatedly the right thing and his goal was to do the right thing. >> imagine the pressure on all of these players, the fbi, special council, all of the cocounci cocouncils he has hired. here we are day 200. when we reach 300 will the them still be russia? >> there are deep concerns in the law enforcement community, in the justice department about preserving the integrity of the institution and also explaining how this is all unfolding. when you ask where we'll be in day 300, you get the sense they
stepped in because attorney sessions recused himself. so by putting himself out there rosenstein is trying to better explain where this institution that may be a bit fragile because of these investigations stands. >> kellyann conway said something, the defense appears to go on offense about the team and kind of this whiff of conflict of interest. they keep saying he hired attorneys who are democratic donors. what are they saying? >> looking at the 16 attorneys he hired and finding a number of them have made campaign donations in the past to democrats sort of at the hillary clinton specifically. there is a different change in tone when you look at what some of trump's leeare saying.
they are taking it much more seriously. there is a new lawyer at the white house trying to take it seriously. i think it's a shift in tone because they know it is becoming more serious. it's escalating, looking into finances and other issues as well. >> when you first heard this argument going against some of the players that he had hired did you think it was kind of a ground softening operation to lay a predicate argument for potentially going after him or justifying his dismissal? >> we hear a lot of that coming out of the president specifically. he is trying to lay some ground work with his base to denigrate to indicate he doesn't have integrity so if this investigation breaks bad against him or against members of his administration he can say they
were playing with me all along. >> 535 elected members of congress where do you think muller would poll? >> i think the key example is republican of north carolina, a conservative has taken action along with senator of delaware to try to protect let mueller
stay in place. >> can't thank you enough. coming up after another break north korea threatens revenge. does the trump administration have a plan to stop a potential nucle nuclear? answers when we continue. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. because i don't use my cellphone when i'm driving. even though my family does, and leaves me all alone. here's something else... i don't share it with mom. i don't. right, mom? i have a brand new putter you don't even know about! it's awesome. safe driving bonus checks, only from allstate. sometimes i leave the seat up on purpose. switching to allstate is worth it.
the best signal they could give us is to stop these missile launches. you know, we have not had an extended period of time they have not taken some type of provocative action. >> rex tillerson speaking after the u.n. security council voted to approve the tough new sanctions over the repeated missile tests. a defiant north korea has threatened to retaliate against the u.s. thousands fold is the quote adding that the u.s. is wrong to believe it is safe. joining us tonight, robert, director of international security studies having served on the national security council and the clinton administration. gordon is back with us. is author of nuclear showdown,
more on that in just a moment. how big of a diplomatic victory was it this weekend? i'm sorry, robert, forgive me. of course you're not going to respond until i use your actual name. how big of a diplomatic victory was this and how normal are the comments from tillerson as opposed to going back two or three presidents? it. >> it was a significant accomplishment. it will cut off perhaps one-third of north korea's exports, about a billion dollars out of 3 billion. south korea has half a trillion dollars. it is also a state that is on the cusp of acquiring a nuclear
arsenal. in three years could be half the size of great britain. it is about 100 nuclear weapons. they have been putting out mixed messages about the possibility of jump starting diplomacy. if that does begin the focus would be on capping or freezing the program which is estimated to have about 15 to 20 nuclear weapons. it wouldn't wibe a total roll back. >> we have heard hot air going back and forth with north korea a lot of our adult lives. in your view how dangerous is this period right now? >> i think it's dangerous because we have about a year or so before the north koreans may won't have good guidance. if you're firing at a big city it doesn't matter if you're a couple of miles off. >> a year. >> a year.
that's what they said according to the washington post about a week and a half ago. you know, we can be a couple months more, a couple months less. they are making accelerated progress towards this. all of this is an indication we have got to confront very difficult issues. it undercuts all of our assumptions about getting help from other countries. >> and robert, when you hear talk about a preemptive american strike, about any kind of u.s. military planning in this part of the world, what do you make of it? >> well, i mean the military option is one of three very bad options. you can, you know, bomb negotiator. the problem is that the south korean capital is as close as washington is to baltimore.
any military action, even limited strike on north korea's infrastructure could escalate. 20 years ago when i was on the clinton administration's national security council staff there was a conflict it would have a million casualties and trillion in economic costs. that was 20 years ago. you can use it to work out what a second korean war now that they have obtained that capability would entail. >> when you hear that kind of talk what are they talking about or is it just for consumption? >> there is the monothat all options have to be on the table. you go back to the three that are there, bomb negotiator and people are talking now about the diplomatic option, and the focus would be on freezing capabilities, not on fully
rolling back. if they could have real again ben fit for united states because as gar don mentioned there is still time north korea needs to demonstrated a long range launcher but yet to demonstrate it mastered the war heads and difficult re -- it took the united states a number of years to master. that type they will need for additional testing creates space for diplomacy. >> last time you were on i asked him what he would do. he has not inprecise with words. he doesn't trust any of these other realms to ever work anything out because this is a criminal state we are up against here. >> well, missile defense is good. the north koreans with overwhelm it. the message to the united states
was yeah, you have interceptors but we have more missiles than you can knock out of the sky. until we get to a directed energy weapon our wlils defense will help a little bit but we can't rely on it. there are things we can do though. we can impose sanctions much more severe than we have. we can clean up a lot of the money where we haven't spent as much time doij that. we can start sanctioning china for money laundering. yes when you take those three options, yes but we can also use ohhersive diplomacy to get a much better deal when in fact we get to negotiating. >> sadly we are going to have both of you gentlemen back. we hope not too quickly after tonight. we hope the news does enforce it. it's another way of saying thank you for coming on. robert from washington tonight.
coming up a new chief of staff has not stopped a vacationing commander in chief from hitting social media. can the new man running things on the west wing change the work product of this president? former white house chief of staff will be with us tonight when we come back. you never know when something like this will happen. so let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance and protect yourself from things like fire, theft, or in this case, water damage. cannonball! now if i had to guess, i'd say somewhere upstairs there's a broken pipe. let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance. call today to see how much you could save.
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your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. i won't be distracted by these bullying tweets. if anything they strengthen my resolve to work for protecting the special council against these tactics of bullying and intimidating. >> more there from democratic richard blumenthal defending himself in the attacks on twitter. we have not heard from the
vacationing president except for his 13 separate posts on twitter. trump's comments on twitter have been reserves to comments on policy. it lead to some speculation that his new chief of staff was having some effect. today that changed. he was back again to personal attacks. with us now is a man with experience in running a west wing. he was president bill clinton's first chief of staff. it's great to be with you again. >> it is great to be with you tonight. >> if you were facing six in ten americans thinking the administration was a failure and you came into this job what would the rules of the mclarty rules be? >> let's focus on what people voted for us and get results for the american people, brine.
th -- brian. they need to get focused and move it forward. they will have to reach out to congress as well. that's where you start making the poll numbers change. when bill clinton was elected, as you recall he got 43% and ross perot got 19%. he was stepping on the world stage his approval was 58%. >> you have a 71-year-old american president who is a fully baked person. what he is is what she going to be. everyone says will trump change? will kelly change trump? what do you do with what doesn't fit any set rule book? the fact that this guy as he proved again today will be this guy. >> well, when someone runs for president of the yies aunited s and you have to have some
self-confidence do that, that's an accomplishment. no question about that. brian, you followed many presidents. you reported on them. they have to grow and learn on the job. no one is fully prepared to serve as commander in chief. i think there is some learning curve every president faces. i think this president is no exception. whether he can step up to the enormous responsibility to this complicated and dangerous world and very complex committee as well. >> what if bill clinton had social media at his disposal? >> he was an acting communicate to. he would generally understand staying on message. he would step off of that as every president has. he liked -- he certainly loved to campaign. he loved to engage with people. i can't say he wouldn't have e used twitter.
i think he was much more of a one on one let's -- he was a big believer that the voters need to feel that he was on their side and he was a big believer, as i was, even if they didn't vote for you shlgs you were still president of the united states and if they liked you a little better and trusted you it would be good politics as well as the right thing for the nation. >> final question, do you get this preference for generals in this administration, do you have any problem with the role these generals are playing thus far? >> they are all people of distinction and accomplishment. i think we have always had a careful separation of our military and age maturity. general mcmaster i have been with on a few occasions.
a man of real accomplishment. i'm okay with it. i don't think we should be completely oblivious. you can have too much of a good thing. i think they are all three very capable people. >> great to see you. >> great to see you again! thank you for coming. when we come back, the republicans in 2020. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah.
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>> you talk about hypotheticals all of the time. are you ruling out that possibility? >> we are all operating under the assumption. it is a goal and focus on clifr delivering the agenda and make sure he can be reelected and continue to lead this country. >> mark this morning with our own. pence and other republicans may have their eyes toen a presidential run in 2020. the new york times reported over the weekend quote mr. pence has been the pace setter. though it is customary for vice presidents to keep a full political calendar he has gone a step further cementing his status and promoting himself as the main conduit. the v.p. was quick to respond saying today's article in the
new york times is disgraceful and offensive to me, my family and our entire team. the allegations in this article are categorically false and represent the latest attempt by the media to divide this so mu here. before we even get to our conversation i want to read two people on twitter. first joe scarborough who works the morning shift in this very room, one, vfirst vp to set up pac. won't deny 2020 run, building contributor race not disgraceful, more than likely. and not saying pence has his eye on the oval office but his secret service name is frank underwood. is pence talking to an audience of one and does he just protest too much. >> that statement was to an audience of one but also to the
trump base. i think pence wants to endear himself to that 30% of americans out there. but there is nothing false in that story. he does have a pac and is raising money and doing all of these things that one would be doing if he were preparing for a presidential run. they didn't report that he was going to primary his boss or challenge his boss. they were reporting if trump were not to run in 2020, puns is doing the due diligence to be in a position to run, himself. >> let's be clinical about it a little bit. we opened with the poll numbers tonight. none of them good. there is a new grand jury sitting in washington, d.c. with a special counsel with unlimited resources. anything could happen at any time. >> right. it's politics. it's not having tea with your next door neighbors. it's a nasty business and everyone has to assume the next
guy is getting ready. if he is getting ready you get ready. maybe four years for now you will be glad you were ready early. you can be hoping your boss doesn't have any more hardship than he is already facing and at the same time taking care of your own shop. and this is obviously an incredibly awkward story for the vice president and they went out there and did what they needed to do. number one, to protect his brand which is one of decency and loyalty and appropriateness, number two to give the president this exceptional public assurance there is nothing he needs to worry about from in his own shop and to signal to both the base and to the donor class that you know, the vice president is staying inside his lane. but nevertheless, precisely because of these poll numbers and because of so many division
inside the republican party and a sense of uncertainty. if the republicans hang on in the mid-terms it may help president trump. if there's a problem in 2018 it could be problematic. and you know, at that point, all bets are off. >> one of the more pernicious charges the president makes repeatedly as recently as today is to paint all the news media and the free press as fake or false. some of his greatest hits on the subject and when we come back we'll talk about why it's in the news again tonight. but here, a sampling. >> i have a running war the media. they are among the most dishonest people on earth. >> fake news. >> fake news. >> the leaks are real the news is fake. >> you're dishonest people. i'm changing it from fake news,
very fake news. >> the fake news, the dishonest media. we are fighting the fake news. it's fake, phony, fake. >> they are the enemy of the people. >> they're very dishonest people. >> fake. fake. >> i kept a know what newspaper you're reading but that would be another example of fake news. >> the fake media, the fake news. >> we don't want fake news. >> fake media, fake news. >> it makes it quaint that spiro agnew called us -- on this front there is something called trump tv we saw it a few months back. it went dormant, kelly mcniny has resigned from cnn and doing at trump news what she did at cnn and that is push the trump cause. what do you know about this venture? >> it's an effort to speak to the trump voters and that the
rnc where kale where is going to be working in concert with -- >> the old sean spicer job. >> to get a message out there and promote the news that president trump feels like is not being covered enough, economic numbers, whatever the line of the day is going to be from this administration to create their own outlet for it. but it's the equivalent of state media we see in russia and other countries. we'll see whether it becomes a newscast and catches on. >> with that our great thanks to two purveyors of actual genuine news for staying late with us on a monday night. coming up after another break there, has been another leak and again to "the new york times" because someone on the inside fears a government gone wrong. that story when "the 11th hour" continues.
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is about a dog that served in afghanistan, met up with his handler, i will show tomorrow. >> kimberly: never miss an >> sean: thanks to our friends on "the five," welcome to "hannity." leftist rage reaches an all-time high as a liberal hatred towards the president is now spiraling out of control. newt gingrich, plus special counselor robert mueller, it has now turned into a political witch hunt. it needs to be shut down. we will cover all of that in tonight's very important opening monologue. liberal hatred toward president trump and republicans has now reached a fever pitch. it has become uglier, nastier than anything we have seen in modern political history. and now, it is becoming violent.
just take a look at what happened. remember, a deranged left-wing ideologue tried to assassinate republican lawmakers. thankfully, to braved armed capitol police officers were there and they prevented this from becoming what could have been a massacre. what's even more disturbing, is that police have found a list the government had in his van, and it contained names of six g.o.p. congressmen. three of those republican lawmakers on that list will be joining us later in the program tonight, but here's the thing. at this horrific assassination attempt is just one example in a much larger pattern of file, disturbing, left-wing hatred, that now sometimes it is encouraging violence. fort campbell, here is a performance of shakespeare's "julius caesar" that is been going on in new york city depicting a president trump look alike getting brutally murdered. that's night after night. last night, a protester rushed the stage at the play and
it was wrong then, it's wrong now. this isn't even about freedom of speech, although, i would never call for anybody to be silenced. these liberal purveyors of hate have the right to say whatever they want, and i have a right to call them out for being beyond tasteless, vile, and disgusting. it let me them of the viciousness that has been spewed from the left in this country. here's one example that is so graphic we always have to warn you before we put it up on your screen. kathy griffin, posing as an isis fighter with a fake blood he severed head of donald trump. you know what, posing like a jihadist with something that looks like the president's head, is that the right thing to do? is that what we want in this country? or is it a threat potentially against the president? how about this from madonna at the women's march with thousands of left wing protesters. telling a crowd of angry protesters in washington, d.c.,
that you thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house. is that a smart thing to do, or can it be interpreted as a threat against the president? now, there are countless other examples of liberals making threats against the president, but here's the thing, this isn't really free speech. this isn't shakespeare. this is about a rage, a hatred of this president, and the left and liberals trying to objectify, dehumanize this president. they are trying to paint him as not human. a peaceful protest, that's not what democrats and the left have been calling for since the election. they've been calling for, remember the words resistance. let's be clear, i'm not saying that the left is responsible for what happened last week, or bernie sanders reporters are, that is not bernie sanders supporters what happened in alexandria, virginia. i won't say that, because you have to hold people accountable when they commit acts of violence. they are responsible. but you cannot deny there is this out-of-control rage and
hatred coming from the left in america today. it is a very, very dangerous game that is being played out here, and it's one that the left plays all the time. remember back in 2008, president obama said this about yours truly. >> he can speak. i might have to put mr. burgess on fox news. i'll put mr. burgess against sean hannity. he will tear him up. >> sean: and obama said, getting their face. remember during the campaign, former vice president crazy uncle joe biden, said this about then candidate donald trump. >> the press always asked me don't i wish i was debating him? don't i wish we were in high school, i could take in behind the gym? that's what i wish.
>> sean: if i said taking uncle joe behind the gym, what would happen to me? were going to have more on this topic later in the program tonight. it's so important, but also tonight, special counsel, robert mueller's investigation is in fact now turning into a dangerous witch hunt by engaging what i've been warning about, investigation mission creep. we've been highlighting night after night exactly what's been going on here, and here are the facts. mueller, who has a massive, huge, numerous conflict of interest with his relationship with comey, is now hiring an army of people to look into everything else with trump russia collision, including jared kushner's finances. the fact that three people on mueller's team have donated to obama and clinton. does that sound fair, balanced, and partial to you? the fact that now they are investigating other issues like the objection. here's what happened? this whole thing was supposed to be about so-called trump russia collision. guess what, there is zero
evidence. none whatsoever at this point, so now mueller is looking into other things. finances, business dealings, instruction, and we can expect it's only going to get bigger and more expensive day in and day out. you can bet one thing, he's not going to stop until he finds something to justify his existence. it's what i call investigation mission creep. and speaking of the facts, if mueller wants to investigate obstruction of justice, he should add his good friend james comey about loretta lynch influencing about the clinton email investigation, and meeting bill clinton on the tarmac and saying it's not not an "investigation" it's a "matter," and sarah carter investigating she might have put the kibosh on any potential indictment. if mueller wants to look into his finances, then why not investigate the pay to play scheme that was going on in the clinton foundation? remember the uranium one deal, there's a rush of conspiracy.
hillary clinton, secretary of state, signing off on giving 20% of america's uranium to vladimir putin and the russians. by the way, all the while people involved in that deal, donating millions and millions to the content foundation. and her husband doubling his speaking fees in moscow. instead of creating crimes, mueller should be investigating the ones we actually know occurred, including the felonies by hillary clinton. here's a reaction, of the brand-new book bestseller, newt gingrich. you said, people are going to be indicted over something that has nothing to do with the original investigation. >> i absolutely believe that. you look at, it gets worse the more i've done research over the last three or four days. the state department, or the justice department, has 97% of
its donations went to hillary clinton, 3% went to trump. that's the justice department. that was bad enough as a culture, now it turns out that the law firm that mueller comes from was 99.81% of their money went to hillary clinton. it was about $360,000 to a total of $678. you have this very biased culture at the department of justice, which is 97% for hillary in terms of donations. they then reach out to an even more biased law firm which is at 99.81% to find the lawyer to head up the nonpartisan, remember nonpartisan, investigation. he then hires for key lawyers,
all of whom donated to democrats, as you pointed out. my favorite is the one who defended the clinton foundation against the freedom of information act. unbelievable! i don't know that i would have the nerve to write this novel, but if somebody wants to know what the deep state is, start up here with the justice department's 97%, come down to the law firm at 99.81%, pick a group of lawyers who are hard-core democrats, two of whom, by the way, also have prosecutorial problems. one of whom was convicted 920 by the court. this pattern is not defensible. >> sean: rod rosenstein wrote a two-page memo saying comey has to go. comey then links to
"the new york times" ." comey then gets his bff to be the special counsel. rod rosenstein contributed all of this, and now he's talking about shifting from the russia collusion, a lie, to obstruction and finances. this is dangerous for this country. both of them need to recuse themselves, and get out of the way. why are they even still there? >> well, i mean, you have to question the entire special investigatory process that brings in these headhunters who are very high-powered lawyers. they are not going to leave until they get somebody. that was my point over the weekend. karl rove wrote a very good column last week in "the wall street journal," and he says you have to be very worried about special investigators running a muck. he cited, and his own case, he had forgotten one phone call. imagine how many phone calls someone in his position in the white house it was getting. he forgot one phone call that was months ago or a year ago.
they almost indicted him for forgetfulness. that's how vindictive, that's how powerful these powers of state are. >> sean: by the way, i want to send our thoughts and prayers to the family of this young man, otto, who just recently returned from north korea and i tonight. i am so sad for this family. i want to ask you one final question. i think this is important. i really believe this rhetoric, this hatred i talked about in my opening monologue, shakespeare, the isis pose, the rhetoric, hate, the violence towards this president, to dehumanize him, is now extraordinarily dangerous. your thoughts? >> it's extremely dangerous, and it's much deeper than just trump. i talk to college students at the college republican national convention this week, i ask them, how many of you feel intimidated and your campus? a third of them raised their
hands. i had students tell me that they are literally intimidated against saying they were for trump because they thought it would cost them two or three grade levels from their professor. this anti-conservative, anti-trump, anti-republican pattern is very deep, it's very widespread, it's in the newsrooms, it's in hollywood, it's in the academic community, and it's in the bureaucracy, and that's what the deep state is all about. that's why this fight is going to go on for all eight years of the trump presidency. >> sean: and the media colluding with them is even worse. 11 months of lies, no apologies, no retractions, no one is going to get this right. congratulations on the book, "understanding trump." thank you sir for being with us. coming up, late last week we learned a disturbing news that this left-wing gunman who tried
to assassinate g.o.p. lawmakers had a list of his cart with the names of six republican lawmakers. three of those lawmakers will join us next. straight ahead tonight, and also, we will continue all of this hatred toward the president, and we will get into the other issues, including the woman who literally stormed the shakespearean play in the park over the weekend, peacefully, to say enough is enough. that and my commentary on megyn kelly, straightahead. while working on my feet all day gave me pain here.
>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." the house majority whip steve scalise remains in critical condition. he is recovering from the gunshot wounds after a left-wing gunman tried to assassinate g.o.p. leaders last week. fox news has also learned gunman had in his van in a written list with the names of six g.o.p. congressmen on this list. the list contained their capitol hill office room numbers. three of the lawmakers on that list, congressman mo brooks, morgan griffin, are with us. i've known you for years, when you did radio down in alabama, i've known you all these years. you are a tough guy. this really impacted you, describing, putting the tourniquet on this young kid.
then, of course, what happened to steve scalise fighting for his life, and now you find out you're on a list to be murdered, to be assassinated. i've got to imagine that is tough, too. >> very much so, particularly for my family. what the public doesn't understand, we often get these kind of threats. members of congress or the united states senate, by way of example. at one time i had a bounty on my head of $21,000. if you were successful in killing me and some other members of congress, also had that kind of bounty. what happened last wednesday brings it home and sharper focus, however. it's one thing to get these kind of threats, it's another thing to have multiple shots at you and that your friends and colleagues. >> sean: again, having to jump and help these guys. congressman franks, it's also media figures. i have dealt with as my entire career. it's not fun. >> well, it really isn't, sean. i just have to say, as much as i
want to say that the line that it is held deeply by all of us, we have to seek unity. there also needs to be an element of accountability. when you have the president of united states being treated by the leftist media as almost an agent of a foreign government, and you have major corporations like american express still sponsoring plays in the park that depict a donald trump look-alike being stabbed to death, and kathy griffin holding up a depiction of a bee had a donald trump, a duly elected president of united states, you can understand why it might appeal to the nut cases and the malignant in our society. it's time that the left calls this out, and we get back to principal persuasion and debating the issues like we are human beings, like the american people that believe that all of us are created equal.
>> i think unless we do that, the president situation could evolve into very tragic circumstances. >> sean: congressman, i agree with congressman franks. i just think it has gotten so heated, and isis pose with a severed bloodied head of our president? a nightly murdering of our president? the rhetoric -- the russia trump conspiracy live told day after day night after night. you think it has had an impact in terms of delegitimizing the president, but also, objectifying him as the subject of evil. i wrote it down, and agents of the foreign government. i think that was a really good way to put it. speak out yet, i think he's right on that. i think we all have to be careful in what we say. everybody has to be careful because there is a heightened sense of emotion and frustration out there on the streets. a lot of it has been fed by a
lot of groups on the left, but we have to be careful on the right too that we don't encourage folks who are our friends to go out and do something stupid. we have to be careful because you don't want anybody eating her by the violence that has already ensued, and could continue if we don't see a toning down of the rhetoric by the media and others. >> sean: mo brooks, what's your take on the rhetoric and association, isis poses, severed head, conspiracy theories. is it having an impact? >> it's definitely having an impact. it's a part of the demonization strategies of the democratic party uses on a regular basis. last year, by way of example, you sought with respect to our law enforcement unity. you saw with occupy wall street. i personally believe that what we saw in dallas where a gunman shot at and killed a law enforcement officer and caucasians, simply because they are law enforcement officers and caucasians, is in part because the democratic party strategy of demonizing the law enforcement
community on the one hand, and also engaging in a strategy of racial division where they try to get block votes from minority groups by trying to portray caucasians as the enemy. it's not surprising to me that you see this kind of blowback as we saw in dallas, and as we saw last wednesday in the washington, d.c., area. >> sean: first of all, thoughts and prayers with congressman scalise. you come a long way way. i'm really proud of you. >> thank you, sean. you have to, i might add. >> sean: thank you very much. coming up, you're going to meet the woman who stood up this weekend, stormed the stage at the shakespeare in the park rally in new york city. she is calling for the leftist hatred to come to an end, and later tonight --
>> i'm not prepared to say there is proof you can take to a jury. the ranking democrat on the committee, he now admits, no proof or evidence of trump russia collision. really? we will get reaction from jay secular. also sarah carter, and more tonight. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your summer vacation is very important. that's why booking.com has great offers up to 40% off now through july 4th. find great deals now at booking.com. booking.yeah!
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others injured when a van plowed into a group of muslims during evening prayers. 47-year-old darren osborne. that's a look at news, now back to "hannity" ." >> sean: welcome back to "hannity" ." despite the vicious assassination attempt on republican members of congress last week, and new york shakespeare in the park continued their production of "julius caesar" which depicts the killing of a trump look-alike everything all night. the show did close last night as planned, but our next guest felt she had to do something of the depiction of violence against our president. lauren loomer stormed the stage in the middle of a poor performance, and following the interruption, loomer was arrested by the nypd. she joins us now wire it to a claim why she did this. thanks for being with us. >> thanks so much for having me,
sean. >> sean: you know if you did this, you're putting yourself at risk. you're probably going to be arrested. you were arrested, you are charged, you're going to have to appear in court park. but you knew that, right? >> yeah, i knew that would be a consequent. >> sean: why was this so important to you? >> this is been really important to me because the left has systematically and programmatically used free-speech and artistic expression as a pretext to incite violence against the right and promote the assassination of president trump's, and that is really problematic. you can see the consequence of this play and just the liberal mainstream media using political violence against the right of this past week. when representative steve scalise was shot in in assassination attempt on the publicans. this was carried out by a liberal who watched msnbc and a fan of the mainstream media, and who knows, maybe he was influenced by kathy griffin and "julie caesar." >> sean: by the way, this was nonviolent, and it's funny.
the left has been preaching since donald trump is elected the resistance. obama wants to get their faces, and biden once talked about taking trump behind a schoolyard and kicking the crap out of him. robert dinero wanted to punch him in the face, jim carrey wants to use a golf club on the president. then we got isis poses and everything else. of course, the infamous madonna. listen to this. >> yes, i am outraged. yes, i have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white hous white house. >> sean: you know, speaking about you, wait a minute, i thought the left like peaceful protest it in some cases, they don't even speak out against violent protest. i know republicans, they have been critical of you, and never chompers are critical of you. this was nonviolent. you are tired of a president look-alike getting assassinated
on stage. a why would they be so critical when they support will when liberals do it, and what if it was against certain historical religious figures. what he think the reaction would be? >> this is assassination porn. at the left is taking pleasure in watching an assassination attempt on president trump. shakespeare once said that violent delights lead to violent ends. when you're going to delight in the assassination of our president, it's going to have a violent end. why are never chompers supporting me? do they have and, with the liberals? they are both unhappy with president trump in our president. they haven't accepted it. the only way that would be resolved if he was eradicated. people like ben shapiro are going to criticize me because i am protecting the president's life, i am protecting our constitution, i'm using my constitutional right of free speech and protest to protest against
the best it is asian and the normalization of violence against the right. it is absolutely absurd. >> sean: in light of what happened last week, you took a very courageous clinical stand. it was nonviolent, you're making a strong point, i applaud you for what you are done. you did it knowing what the risks are, and good for you. thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. >> sean: up next and i, on this busy breaking news night. >> i'm not prepared to say there is proof you can take to a jury. >> sean: and now, even liberal congressman adam schiff, the latest democrat to admit there is no evidence of trump russia collision, and why is this still a story. we will talk about investigative of robert mueller. why do we move from russia and tromped to obstruction of justice and finances? sarah carter, gregg jarrett, weigh-in, straightahead. trated, so i get a better clean.
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coordinated those efforts. now, the fbi open investigation into that issue in july, well before congress did, but i am not prepared to say there is proof you can take to a jury, but i can say, there is enough that we ought to be investigating. indeed, it would be negligent for us not to investigate. >> sean: jay, i want us to get into this, because this is become like russia trump conspiracy, like a truther's. it has gotten so bad, every intelligence official, every democratic congressman, nobody has any evidence of collusion. 11 months of media lies. why now are they moving on to, what, obstruction? and if that doesn't work, there move on to financial issues. at what point does this investigative creep and?
>> what the president said is actually correct. this is a witch hunt it's as if you have a false narrative being compounded by another false narrative, except you've got a committee of the house, committee and the center, a special counsel, and everybody is looking at this. here's what you just heard. do we have evidence i can go to a jury? no. and then the other senator saying we have not seen evidence of pollution, and all the intelligence official saying no evidence of collusion. no evidence of russia collision. so, what is this at the end of the day? what's really at stake here? this is what's at stake, the constitution is at stake. what you have right now is these multiple prong investigations that i've been going on. when people think of special counsel appointed in the middle of may. this has been going on for almost a year. ten months. and what is the evidence said? even the members of the democratic party have acknowledged, nothing. we have seen no evidence.
so, at this point -- coat >> sean: i want to stay focused on these constitutional issues here. richard armitage, patrick fitzgerald, new early on that he was the leaker, but he stays on this for literally, three years, and all he comes up with is a perjury trap for scooter libby at the end of the day. at the start of the russia trump collusion, why is this special counsel still here? how does the guy, how do we move to obstruction, how do we move to finances? to me, it seems like a constitutional crisis now created. thoughts? >> it's a fake constitutional crisis, because if you look at the constitution, of course, the president could not have obstructed justice and the termination of james steve come. the whole basis, by the way, all we know our leaks coming out of suppose it agencies going to "the washington post." we don't have evidence of
anything, a leak, or a series of leak, and they don't identify the agency. but what is the purported violation? this is where the constitutional issue arises. here is what really happened. the president takes an evaluation of the conduct and activities of james comey asked the director of the fbi. he comes to the conclusion based on consultation with people that he trusts in his administration, including the attorney general, deputy attorney general who recommended removal. he was already thinking about it before. they made a big deal about that. but what james comey date in the middle of the last election. so you take that, what's the action based on? he takes a recommendation that now the attorney general and deputy attorney general have made, and he took action to remove james comey as the fbi director. now, he is supposedly, and again is no evidence, supposedly if it was true what they are leaking, he is being investigated by the agency who told him to take the action that he ended up taking, and now they do that to the
office of the special counsel who reports to the deputy attorney general. this is the problem, the constitutional problem is they are creating something that is contrary to the way the constitution is structured and the powers of the president. >> sean: the really important thing is, now the president doesn't deal with russia threatening to shoot on our planes, or the insanity of north korea that we have to deal with, or isis that is a big problem, or getting people out of poverty come off of food stands, and into the labor force and buying homes. now, this is 80% of the president's time, which in part, is part of the agenda. >> i call that a media filibuster. what the president isn't doing his work. he's doing his job. absolutely. >> sean: now, it has taken on, we got to talk about the investigative creep next. what is this mission creep, investigation creep.
if they don't have evidence of collusion, why they still there? should robert mueller and rod rosenstein resigned? i say yes. i do wrong, my take on megyn kelly's interview with alex jones. the commentary you don't want to miss. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.
and of course comey and investigation creep as i call it, from circa news.com. i want to go to both of you. we started out, trump russia collusion, reason for investigation. okay, and somehow rod rosenstein, the guy that recommended in a two-page brutal takedown on why you should fire comey, is now saying that firing comey is obstruction. then we going to finances, then we go into mueller literally leaking daily, or somebody to his office to "the washington post," this to me is beyond dangerous. once it's been proven that trump russia collusion doesn't exist, why are they even still working on this? >> that's the question that everyone has. it's a question that i have. if there's actually no evidence that they had as of yet, and they haven't had in the past seven months, that trump or his team colluded with the russians.
>> sean: wright, ten months! >> right. there is no evidence that he colluded with the russians, why are they continuing to push for an investigation? you brought it up, mission cree creep. there are a lot of questions as to the people that mueller has hired. democratic donors, backers of hillary clinton, the clinton foundation, connections to the clinton foundation, especially with ray, and what we are looking at is a serious problem. particularly, ethical conflicts. this is coming from people within the fbi, who are very concerned about the relationship that mueller also had with comey. this is something nice to be taken very seriously, and there is reason why the trump administration, why president trump would be and should be concerned about this. >> sean: concerned, i mean, greg, here you have comey leaks
to "the new york times" for the very purpose of getting a special counsel, rosenstein wrote the letter that comey should be fired, and now is helping to get the bff of comey, mueller, in there. then he hires hillary's attorney on the clinton foundation to avoid lawyer requests and donors to obama and hillary. wow. could there possibly be any more conflicts, which is why mueller and rosenstein need to go, in my opinion. >> there is a cancer within, except the cancer here is within the special counsel office. mueller is violating the law, comey has violated the law, rosenstein continues to violate the law by refusing to disqualify himself. these are the three central figures in all of this. there is a reason why ethical rules exist to prevent favoritism and precious, and yet
all three of these individuals are ignoring the law with impunity. i have a theory here. they know there is no pollution, so they can't prove the case there. what prosecutors, in my opinion, experience as a defense attorney, they try to conjure criminality where it doesn't exist. >> sean: they are justifying their existence. >> there contorting the law of obstruction to try to make a case when under the statute, he cannot exist given the fact that we know. >> sean: wright, that is exactly -- -- >> there would have to be a threat or bribe. >> sean: that's exactly what alan dershowitz said. and then this raises other questions. why are we investigating loretta lynch and her obvious obstruction, and did she put the kibosh on any potential
indictment on hillary. hillary clinton's obvious felonies, mishandling, destroying of classified information? then, of course, we've got the foundation of hillary clinton and bill clinton giving 20% of american uranium to vladimir putin and getting kickback millions from people involved? >> there are so many questions that haven't been answered with regards to the uranium one deal, with regard to ukraine, with regard to haiti, with regard to the clinton foundation. none of them saw a special prosecutor. i think the big concern here is, especially for lawmakers, is what happens with loretta lynch. it right there, we know that loretta lynch asked director comey to call the investigation a "matter" not an investigation, and furthermore, that there was an email that director comey obtained between two political
figures that serve adjusted that loretta lynch was going to put the kibosh on any indictment against hillary clinton. those are questions that need to be answered. >> sean: to me, there is collusion, there is obstruction, there are felonies committed, and there is a conspiracy theory, because hillary conspired to give 20% of uranium to vladimir putin for money. >> to people and which there is some evidence of the legality, loretta lynch, the former attorney general, and hillary clinton, are not being investigated here. all you have to do is go back and look at the torture interpretation of the law that comey offered last july, and any lawyer will tell you there are plenty of prosecutors who would have brought that case under the espionage act, and here you have loretta lynch, politically
interfering with an fbi investigation and comey at the time was so upset about it, he was thinking of calling a special prosecutor himself. >> sean: all right, guys. great work. we will keep reporting, i know you guys will. what the rest of the media is ignoring and frankie has upside down and backwards. thank you both. when we come back, i want to give you my take on megyn kelly's interview with alex jones. and we need your help with a very important question of the day. straight ahead. ♪
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monologue. during last nights interview, megyn kelly, my former colleague, pressed jones on some of his conspiracy theories but out of the hours of video they taped, nbc only aired a few minutes. jones has called for nbc to air the full version. in this case i have to agree. whether you agree or disagree, this is the right thing. i am in no way being critical of my colleague and someone will have been friends with, megyn kelly. she was doing her job. but i do believe nbc news should release the full tapes of the alex jones interview. let americans decide. isn't that what websites are now four. shouldn't nbc let you let the american public see everything that was said and they can decide for themselves what to think? i am a little sick and tired of the mainstream media, news media
editing interviews to fit a predetermined narrative. i am not saying megyn kelly did this. i hate to disappoint all of you people in the media that would love to see a battle break out between megyn kelly. that's not happening. i truly wish her the best. you may remember just a few months ago in march i was the focus of fake edited news. i had agreed to do an interview with cbs and with ted koppel. the interview lasted nearly 50 minutes as we discussed in great detail many things, why there is such a great divide in america, politics and media. the interview airs and i get 70 seconds of the interview. i called for cbs to release the full video which they refused to do, and that brings us to tonight's question of the day. should nbc release the tapes, especially in the day and age where these news organizations have websites. all they have to do is put it up
he praised it today. >> the president senate voted to repeal and replace the obamacare disaster. we are one step closer to liberating our citizens from this obamacare nightmare. and delivering great health care for the american people. we will do that too. i am back in the center of the america heartland, far away from the washington swamp, to spend time with thousands of true americans patriots. >> and the president had a stern warning to fellow republicans. >> every republican running for office promised to repeal and replace this disastrous law. now they must keep their
promise. the senate is working not only to repeal obamacare but to deliver great health care for the american people. any senator who votes against repeal and replace is telling america that they are fine with the obamacare nightmare. i predict they will have a lot of problems. >> that was the president today. feeling his roots. back with his supporters. feeling optimistic about the future. welcome on the personal tonight. >> excited to be with everyone. especially jesse waters. >> what did you think today this terms of the president's remarks and where we are now? >> he was in his element. i mean, he was feeding off that crowd. i think he was reframing his debate that the republicans
failed to frame this as obamacare is failing. there are good parts of obamacare the republicans don't want to admit. a lot more people were covered. but how do you play for that? president obama didn't lay that out and lied about you can keep your plan and your doctor. the republicans, we don't know what they would wind up with. it will be amended dozens of time. to frame it as we are in trouble with obamacare, premiums are escalating, let's move this forward, was smart on his part. feeding off that crowd, he would get the applause and start and wander around like a prize fighter and reveling. >> yes. >> remember when the house passed. it was a big celebration and a song and dance. they made a mistake. when the house passed the bill,
it was the first round in the prizefight. he was dancing in the end zone in the rose gardner. >> we have been waiting for president trump to push obamacare repeal and replace. he finally comes out swinging. we could have used that in june and yell. it's late july, and he comes out swinging. he is putting pressure on senators. that's what you need to do. he said it. it's dating. obamacare is in a death spiral. everybody believes it and knows it. we know the thing is failing. juan knows it. >> i am in shock. >> they talked about it in virginia. there are people lining up for health care and they don't have any health care. premiums are sky rocketing. juan, the bill is a disaster. no one likes it.
everybody wants to replace it, but these little daffy senators want the medicare money. that's the truth. >> medicaid. >> yes, the medicaid money. >> [laughing] >> the same thing. different cos -- cousins. i don't know if they will get the medicaid money, but health care is failing. >> kimberly help him out. the president campaigning in different states to get support. out there back with his base.
the speech might have been different if the motion to proceed failed. but senator john mccain gave a talk that everyone liked. there are some questions about the merits of the proposals going forward and senator mitch mcconnell also delivered. there was teamwork here. and even dean heller from nevada voted with the majority. when the president called all of the senators to the white house for lunch. he said if you can't vote to have a conversation about this, this is a big problem. they realized they would number deep problem. it's time to have this debate. there has been enough time talking around the edges. they will go forward and have lots of amendments and see what they come up with. >> right. they had the ingredients.
let's make jam, shall we? dana perino predicted they would get the votes to go forward and have the conversation to get this done. they have been complaining about obamacare and the fact they wanted to do something about it. now is the time. >> yes. debate what? we don't know what! you are buying lock, stock and barrel, like an empty vessel and saying let's have this debate. >> they know what the ingredients are. >> do the republicans know what is in the bill they will debate? no. john mccain today said he would never vote for any of the bills that are on the floor right now. you have people like rob out of ohio, dean heller out of nevada. paul and from west virginia. >> what is their point? >> they will never vote for any of the bills that are currently there.
>> that was their point. >> this is really an empty act. >> you don't think they will vote for it if it's amended in a way they support? >> no. the dynamic is evident. if you amend it to appeal to the u-conn huski conservatives, you will lose the moderates. >> that's a more important reason for president trump to keep doing what he is doing. >> for what? >> you said he is good at what he does and getting support out there. >> [overlapping talking]. >> the republicans on capital one are saying he doesn't know anything about health care. but we could use him out there using his twitter account. he is out there. even in the speech today -- >> [overlapping talking] >> they liked him helping them
get re-elected. >> how many of those republicans won by larger margins than trump. >> they fear trump? >> no. >> i think he embarrassed himself in front of the boy scouts yesterday politicizing the jamboree. there is total devastation in europe. murder in chicago. the founding fathers would protect industries. what industries were under? >> chicago run by a democratic mayor. does donald trump want to send in the national guard. >> that's another show. today we saw the emotional return of senator john mccain to the senate floor following his brain cancer diagnose voteing to move forward with the health care debate and mccain reminded us why he is called t
the maverick. >> stop listening to the loud mouths on the internet. to hell with them. they don't want anything done for the public good. our incapacity is their livelihood. >> amazing to see him there. when we are complaining about nonsense and this nan with a diagnosis has the courage and guts to come forward and be there when it count when the rest want to go on recess. god bless him for what he's done for this country. >> and a tremendous amount of strength to do that after surgery last week. >> remarkable. >> i will disagree with something he said. he said ignore the bombastic radio talk show hosts out in the country. i would talk to them more. not listen but talk to them more. the president should do an
hour's worth of talk radio every day. you don't have to do national talk radio. local talk radio in the pick-10 radio. he would probably enjoy it. it's a way to get to the constituents. they will respond. >> that's a fantastic idea and one i had not thought about. it would resonate. >> the courage of john mccain to step up and enter this debate and say let's move forward. why not a single democratic senator voted yes on the motion to proceed? why not at least have this debate? democrats said this is a great law, obamacare, pushing back about the premium increases and people losing their plans. schumer said we want to fix what is broken in obamacare but not a singe one voted to have the debate. >> what you are talking about is it's based on the house bill which we know, even president
trump said is a -- >> which you can not amend. >> the senate bill goes forward and it doesn't have the support of enough republicans as it stands. >> forget about their support. they had 8 years. now let the republicans have a shot. >> they have a shot but they have not come up with a better bill than obamacare. >> [overlapping talking] >> it can't get any worse than obamacare. >> is this is what mccain was talking about. ignore these loud mouths. >> are you talking about jesse? >> [laughing]. >> mccain said that. >> i think the other thing in terms of the president's speech tonight, it was similar to points we heard him give for the last several months. he is in his element, but he wants to go from we will do
this, to we have done this. trying to get this bill over the finish line. the biggest applause tonight was him talking about the middle-class tax cut. >> that tells you what people want. the way for the president to win ultimately even larger than health care, a pro-growth economy, jobs, tax reform. those things will resonate and permeate not only state lines, but party lines. everybody will be able to applaud that. >> he did an interview with the "wall street journal" today to bring the corporate tax rate down to 15%. he probably can't bring it down that far, but if he brings it down 22% it will bring back plants in youngstown and more money for the trump democrats who flipped and voted republican
last time. he has to deliver for those voters. he's done a lot of executive actions. >> the democrats abandoned him. he gave the working men and women across the country shelter when they were put out by the democrats who were not listening to them. that was part of your party. >> let me respond saying empty rhetoric doesn't help people who need jobs. >> the policy will. >> let's celebrate carrier. oh, carrier just sent their jobs to mexico. does anybody say that empty rhetoric was just hot air and he didn't help the workers of america? >> president obama said he was for the middle-class for 8 years and they got hammered. >> oh, yeah. >> like the stock market and rising wages. >> [overlapping talking] >> please. >> president trump comes into office. not only is the stock market rising but middle-class wages
are rising. if he can get middle-class wages to rise, he will win all of the states he won and pick off the hillary states like wisconsin and michigan. you will be out of luck! he only needs to win one more state than he carried in the last election, juan. forget about it. >> right. >> look at this enthusiasm. >> you could ace your s.a.t.s. >> oh, wow! >> whew! >> i love it. jesse, [laughing] can i get a michigan? all right. ed, tell me what you think. how does the president galvanize and move forward on this? there were some rough spots here. it seems that things are being
able to coalesces. he is putting wins up. >> it's not just about empty rhetoric. he has to build support for these programs. gets his hands dirty on the details and go to the american people to build pressure on the republicans on capital one. they had it easy for a long time. they voted to repeal obamacare knowing that president obama would veto. now it means business. dana is right about the talk radio stations. follow-up with talk radio in dayton and columbus and west virginia. west virginia, donald trump won by 30 or 40 points. how is the republican senator there not the big cheerleader? >> trump needs to call limbaugh? >> no, local talk radio. >> i would do that. i would flood those markets.
don't wait for them to take. it put the pressure right on those constituents. >> and the support. i would call into the local radio station in nevada and praise dean heller. it's one thing to manage out of fear and another thing to manage leading and praising. >> you know the reality is in fact on the president's direction, there is a threat against heller. they had to back that up. i am struck by the fact that nobody at this table said, they should have a better health care plan that helps to cover more americans. >> that's what they are trying to do. >> they have not done it! they don't have a bill. >> they just started. >> [overlapping talking] >> premiums sky rocketed under obamacare. >> [overlapping talking]. >> the companies are making money under obamacare. that's how broken it is. >> so far the prescription for success will be get
infrastructure dirt under your nails, right? smile and dial. sprinkle a little sugar on it in the local radio. more show coming up. president trump's criticism of jeff sessions intensifies. does he flan to fire the attorney general? . lan to fire the attorney general? . plan to fire the attorney general? . you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.
>> president trump ramping up public criticism of attorney general jeff sessions in a string of tweets accusing him of taking a weak position investigating hillary clinton and explained it during a press conference at the white house this afternoon. >> i am disappointed in the attorney general. he should not have recused himself almost immediately after he took office. if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office. i would have simply picked somebody else. i want the attorney general to be much tougher on the leaks super intelligence agency. i am very disappointed from the attorney general. we will see what happens. time will tell.
>> a bizarre couple of days on this issue. jesse is looking at me intently and wants to take this first. take it away, jesse waters. >> donald trump is a private sector guy. if this was the trump organization he expects the in-house counsel to defend him. he thinks my attorney general should defender me. he will be my protector. trump feels exposed. sessions exposed him by recusing himself. i get it. it's not the private sector. he should not think like this, but in the private sector that's how a ceo react to somebody who did that. on talk radio people are saying, if he dumps jeff sessions, i won't like. that i won't like that a lot. jeff sessions was in on trump from the get go. jeff sessions was in on trump from the jump.
if he dumps him it doesn't look good. especially if he brings in rudy giuliani. i understand what trump's thinking is because he feels exposed but people feel that he needs to stick with jeff sessions. >> i don't understand the goal. the president tweeted yesterday that his attorney general was beleaguered. he was beleaguered because of the of the undermining him. today he said in an interview with the "wall street journal," sessions different like him as much as the crowd size in alabama. jeff sessions run by 95% of the valley. maybe he can't do a rally like president trump. what is the goal? >> you know what this is? this is the president being transparent. telling you i am having a hard time with this. i am frustrated.
i am feeling disappointed. yes, jeff was with me from the begin and he appreciated that. i think the frustration comes from the mueller investigation. instead of us wondering what the president thinks about it, it's all playing out in real time here. i think it's a problem for the president. if he were to fire jeff sessions or if jeff sessions were to resign. i don't think the president wants to fire him. >> it feels like he wants to hu milliate him. >> it could be poor for the president when the democrats supported getting rid of comey and we saw the fallout from that. it's distracting when you need to focus on other things like immigration and tax reform, and
health care. it's going to grow instead of providing clarity. >> the president is mad at jeff sessions for not knowing he should recuse himself before he took office so he would not have been appointed. shouldn't he be mad at the people that didn't tell him what happened after the firing of comey. >> i would be mad at those people who got that wrong. >> right. they told the president the democrats will love you firing comey. it didn't work. what kimberly guilfoyle is saying is it looked terrible for the president to beat up on his own person. loyalty is a two way street. this ties into our last segment talking about what kind of wins does this president have? jeff sessions has been quietly and not quietly racking up wins. he is cracking down on illegal immigrants. >> and sanctuary cities.
>> he announced last week a major crackdown on health care fraud. the money we want to squeeze out. >> the president feels exposed because jeff sessions recused himself from the russian things and feels there is disloyalty. >> maybe the president should not have gone on lester holt and said he fire comey for cause and not the memo. >> that was not a smart move. >> jeff sessions could have not recused himself and we would not have this problem. >> but then it would not be right. he did have contact with russia. >> that's not illegal. >> it's not just me. you have rudy giuliani as well as others in the senate saying, that was the appropriate thing to do. john cronin from texas said that was the right thing to do for jeff sessions. he behaved appropriately.
this is not about the president's feelings. i don't think he has bad feelings about the attorney general. he wants somebody who will fire robert mueller. >> he wants somebody who has his back. >> and something that will investigate the unmasking. >> [overlapping talking]. >> these are political ploys. don't pay attention to this. my hand is back here talking about leaks. >> here's the problem. the president is going like this. wakes up in the morning, he's what president obama had. here's what i have. what is going on here? that's part of it. the point is if you looked in the past, the attorney general has really been an arm of the president. >> [overlapping talking]
>> he wants someone who will guard the wall. >> this is not his personal lawyer. >> i understand. >> [overlapping talking] >> he wants the attorney general to fire robert muller but says today, you should go after hillary clinton. why aren't they investigating dirty, nasty hillary? >> we keep hearing that jeff sessions is not talking directly to the president. the president won't take his call. their staff is talking to each other. he won't resign. an opportunity for the president. his critics say he is emoting on twitter. he is mad about the recusal. call jeff sessions tomorrow. let's work together. >> i think that's what will happen. >> they have to sit down face-to-face and talk. >> stop fighting it out over twitter. >> focus on the things in this lane. don't slow it down. you are in the hov lane, keep
going. don't merge right. >> he can't fire robert mueller. that's the problem. that's why they are stuck. that's why you get in a situation -- hang on. you get mark levin and saying don't do this. >> sometimes -- i think they will makeup. it's plausible that he would not like it that all of these people are telling him what he can't do and he will continue to do that very thing. >> other people need to go. >> oh! who? >> i want to read your mind. >> you might pass out and expire. >> [laughing] >> who do you think has to go? >> i think that this health care hasn't happened. a lot of promises made from the president. i would be frustrated with that. you have the house and the
senate. what is the excuse? we have to go. >> you should not beat up on fellow republicans the way the president is right now. >> oh my god. >> juan williams says don't beat up on republicans. >> up next president trump takes trump at the media. a bit more from the president's rally earlier today. >> [cheers and applause] he is a young man. he is going back home to mommy. oh, is he in trouble. he is in trouble! >> [cheers and applause] >> i will bet his mommy voted for us, right? >> [cheering] it's just a burst pipe, i could fix it. (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just because of a claim. i totally could've - no! switching to allstate is worth it.
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america great again rally in youngstown, ohio. he took jabs at one of his favorite subjects, the mainstream media . >> am here this evening to cut through the fake news filter and to speak straight to the american people. this has been a difficult week for the media because i forced them to travel with us all around the country and spend time with tens of thousands of proud americans who believe in defending our values, our culture, our borders, our civilization, and our great american way of life! >> what a dishonest group of people. i will tell you. the funny thing is you would think they would want to see our country be great again. you would think so, but they don't. some day they will explain it to
me why. >> that's the scaramucci effect. back out on the campaign trail. my washington sources told me this would happen. >> [laughing] >> he is back fighting against the mainstream media. effective tactic? >> yes, this is where he shines. people love. it they tune in. the numbers are great. this is quinte quintessential t. they remember candidate trump and embrace president trump. it's best with his message. it's more effective than going on twitter. he is able to reach through the screen and connect. you feel likeulg are right there embracing and taking in and soaking up the moment. i like when he does this. dana said when he speaks and is not on prompter, it's very authentic and people are sitting there listening and waiting for the next moment.
>> one of the reasons trump beat hillary was because he was oughtentic. -- authentic. he is back out there on the campaign trail. it resonates. >> yes, but 1, when he goes after the media, i feel like it's how he is going after sessions. apparently jeff sessions is blowing it off and ignoring it. i think the media is too. trump does like jeff sessions. they will probably makeup at some point. he likes the media. he did an interview today with the fake media. he likes to have them around. this is a lot of bluster and entertainment. i came to the conclusion he doesn't really many it. i think their is something missing and some scaramucci the director of communications can do to think these are more effective. at the top of the speech, have news to drive the next day. they are not doing anything.
this speech i heard so many times. it's the same thing over and over again. it's effective in those crowds. to drive the story the next day, you have to put something at the top that every reporter sitting there -- maybe that's the only part you listen to. i know you reporter times. >> oh! >> you reporter times. >> we did a lot of time together back in the day. >> we did. >> you know what i mean. you are looking for something right at the top. >> we heard this beat up the media stuff. >> it cuts through. you are right. the people want to hear it. it's authentic. harness that energy and going around the filter with meat about tax cuts, for example. newt gingrich said he has to get tax cuts by thanksgiving. you will see people going into the christmas season spending money and the stock market will
rise as it already it. that's the best revenge for this president. >> [overlapping talking] it's not too soon. they should do that right now. they are working very aggressivey on the tax reform. they know that's a winning narrative. pave the road right now with their best mess anger. >> the reality is they are spending time not on tax reform but on trying to recesuscitate health care. you want to say this is like a circus. it's entertaining. he says horrible things about the immigrants and the blacks in chicago and horrible things about -- >> he never said anything about blacks in chicago. >> talking about on-going murders. >> he's upset about the loss of life. how is that negative? >> i got a different message.
his concern is they are out of control in a democratic city and it's black. i find it off putting. >> off putting to care about blacks in chicago? >> no, believe me, he is not caring. >> i think that's an outrageous statement. >> [overlapping talking]. >> the president doesn't care that blacks are getting killed. >> that's why he offered help? >> no, if you allow me to speak. he is speaking to an all-white audience. these immigrants are slicing and dicing 15-year-old girls. that's the message coming people. >> he cares that people are dying on the streets of chicago and wants to save american lives, the justice department breaking news tonight about
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they won't give some cities grant money unless they give federal immigration authorities access to jaylen johnson. they want alerts when someone facing immigration is released from local custody. president trump addressed this at the rally. >> we will build the wall. don't even think about it. >> [cheers and applause] >> i watched the media as they say, well, he just had some fun during the campaign on the wall. that wasn't fun, folks. we are building that wall, and wallace do work. we will have great people come into our country. we are not going to put ourselves through the problems that we have had for so many years. american cities should be sanctuaries for law-abiding americans. for people that look up to the law. for people that respect the law.
not for criminals and gang members that we want the hell out of our country! >> [cheers and applause] >> this is a critical moment. you have the sanctuary cities under direct attack in terms of grant money. the president still talking about the wall. will this change anything? is this just static? >> well -- [laughing] law enforcement is split. you have some law enforcement, chiefs of police saying this not a good idea. we need to have sanctuary cities that allow us to gather the intelligence to protect people. they are not loud enough. this message is swamping democrats. from a political perspective, i think it's extremely difficult for democrats as it continues for them to oppose this policy. that sanctuary cities is a smart thing for the president to talk
about. he can talk about the wall simultaneously, but this is important. we saw the justice department and the attorney general jeff sessions is driving this poll. >> the fox poll asked how likely do you think the president will build a wall? >> 7% -- 67% no. >> you can see all of the drugs being catapulted across. that's very dangerous. the wall will be built. it will be beautiful. it's going to be big. if trump didn't build the wall, it would be such a big problem for his base, for the presidency. if this doesn't get built and it will be built soon. if it gets slowed down by paul
ryan, there will be hell to pay. you remember the funding last session, they didn't give it money. if they don't give it money in september it will be a huge problem. >> he will want to fire ryan. >> without building the wall or beleaguered jeff sessions moving forward, the number of border crossings has decreased. >> it's a success for this administration. >> down 70%. >> yes. >> that's a big deal. >> there you go, juan. that's trump winning again. >> i get so tired of the winning -- >> [overlapping talking] >> take a nap, juan. >> i should. i will lay on your shoulder. >> he needs a 5-hour energy drink. >> the fact you have people in the republican congress not giving the money and saying we don't care.
he talks about the wall. the crowd gets fired up. >> they love the wall. the president is 100% intent on building the wall and seeing it through. that's a fact. when you see that coupled with the rest of his policies with immigration and making sure we have national security as a priority, border security, you see what is happening in the courtrooms across the country. the crackdowns on sanctuary cities as a prosecutor was long overdo. ice is falling too. people are doing their job. they are following the law. they know the president is behind them. and the ag's office as well. we are seeing this big hit on ms-13 and criminal trafficking. >> they are deporting people who have made a misdemeanor for a broken headlight. >> false, false! >> this is so wrong and so
damaging to our values as americans. >> [overlapping talking] >> focus on the real point. >> [overlapping talking] >> seriously, he gets a health care bill and gets the tax cuts. then the lawmakers will see momentum. >> if he gets tax cuts, the president will get money for the wall. >> until he breaking news -- breaks this log jam, he is not getting the mony. >> he hasn't been efficient on health care. >> hang on. >> pass the bill in the house. that's a success, right? >> no. >> that's a bill -- >> [overlapping talking] >> as opposed to the bill failing, it passed. the motion to proceed. you scoffed at that.
>> i didn't scoff at that. >> [overlapping talking] >> you won't acknowledge the fact he got it through in the house. >> [overlapping talking] >> i think let's likely. >> he calls it a bad bill and then has a party in the rose gardner and you want to call it -- >> i called it a mistake. >> he said you are wrong. >> he moved the ball forward. now the u.s. senates will debate this despite everyone saying it was dead. >> putting humpty-dumpty back together again. the republicans are fragmented to go to arizona and talk to the people who have 120% increase in premiums. >> talk to john mccain. >> did he not come back to have this vote. read the tea leaves? >> my prediction is this will
get done. people have to get it done or they are beat it. >> they will beat it because they will suffer at the polls if americans lose medical coverage in order to get president trump a victory he can crow about. >> not the same. constituents support the president. y taking care of business. awesome notebook! check. but who takes care of them? office depot / office max. this week, these composition books are just 25 cents each. ♪ taking care of business but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.
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>> this is a fox news alert. president trump arrived at joint base andrews. our final thoughts on this busy news night. >> me first. >> you are ready to roll. >> wow! i am just proud that waters did not steal anything from me. previous programs, he hasn't come up with original thoughts so he turns to me. >> how dare you. >> that's the truth. i am happy to be here. a lively discussion. i think juan took some hits. >> you think? >> juan is used to. that he has bite marks on his body. he likes it. >> this was a good day for the president. the emotions that everyone thought was dead around july 4th, they are moving forward. >> the president and the first lady at joint base andrews. waveing to everybody as he returns to d.c. after his make america great again rally in
youngstown, ohio. >> president obama never held on to the railing. this is much more safe. they are both holding the railing and walking slowly. >> make america safe again. >> a final thought. go to foxnews.com, breaking news about a former it staffer from schultz's office who has questionable things going on with computer equipment that was destroyed and arrested. >> she doesn't want to turn it over. >> this is my final thought. >> [laughing]. >> arrested at the airport at dulles and charged with bank fraud. more tomorrow. >> that's a huge story that needs to be covered. tremendous national security implications. >> they are down playing this story. >> be specific about how they destroyed the hard drives. >> they got their home depot on.
>> we should ask ed who asked hillary clinton about wiping? >> wipe the server. >> she did with a cloth. >> did some staffers use hammers? >> there you go. my final thought. >> beleaguered. >> for all of the rose colored glasses. what a wonderful day, it seems to me at some point you have to deal with the idea that president trump has been unable to solidify a republican vote behind a health care plan and obamacare looks safer than ever. >> all right. >> we will see about that one. >> all right. it's a big night here on the fox news channel. "hannity" is next followed by a special report with bret baier at 11 p.m. eastern. we will see you back here tomorrow. good night from new york city. >> ♪ >> ♪
owners. and doug jones is a doctor in liberal which is why he is not saying anything and why the media are trying to boost him. >> so vote roy moore? >> i'm telling you, we want the votes in the senate to get this tax bill through. >> but the rnc has withdrawn support for roy moore. mitch mcconnell has withdrawn support. so has the young republicans vote withdrawn support for roy moore. >> and a lot of women. >> right. and you know what? i just want everybody to know, doug jones. nobody ever says his name. >> okay. message here is not ambiguous. it is unmistakable. kellyanne conway, counselor to the president says december 12th alabamians should vote for a man who currently stands accused of molesting a 12-year-old girl, sexually assaulting a 16-year-old and dating or attempting to date five more teenagers including calling one while she was in trig nomt class. so republicans can pass a
massive tax cut that overwhelmingly benefits corporations and the wealthy. it's a very different message than kellyanne conway herself was pushing just last week. >> whatever the facts end up being, the premise is of course the principle, the incontrovertible principle is there is no senate seat that is worth more than a child. >> no senate seat worth more than a child. it's profound. what happ changed? according to new reporting, ohs the past week the white house and president trump's top allies have gone from laying the ground to ditch moore to laying the groundwork to celebrate his possible win next month. multiple sources saying trump is told not the criticize moore by many of his closest advisering including kellyanne conway and steve bannon, trump's former strategist who of course aggressively championed the now accused child molester moore in the primary. president trump has been accused on the record of course we should note of unwanted physical contact by at least 15 women. he denies all their accounts,
called them liars. said they were not attractive enough for him to assault. on friday, the president criticized al franken over sexual misconduct allegations. and then over the weekend, he found time to attack a black football player and the father of a black college basketball player. but for some reason, for some reason, the president, who has opinions about nearly everything under the sun, continues to simply have nothing to say about roy moore. >> to the media, to the press, thank you very much. we appreciate it. thank you. >> your thoughts on roy moore, mr. president? do you believe his accusers? >> thank you. >> do you believe roy moore's accusers, mr. president? >> thank you very much. >> the white house press briefing today sarah huckabee sanders was asked about conaway's comments. >> good afternoon. >> is that the position of this white house that voters are better off voting for someone accused of assaulting teenaged girls than a democrat? >> look, as i've answered, i think even for the third or fourth time today, as well as 10 or 15 times on thursday and
living room and proceeded to seduce me i guess you would say. and during the course of that, he remove mid clothing. he left the room and came back in wearing his white underwear, and he touched me over my clothing, what was left of it. and he tried to get me to touch him as well. and at that point i pulled back and said that i was not comfortable. and i got dressed, and he took me home. but i was a 14-year-old child trying to play in an adult's world. and he was 32 years old. >> roy moore denies these allegations and further says he does not even know you. >> i wonder how many mes he doesn't know. >> congressman lance of new
touching them -- >> i have no reason to disbelieve them. i think in both the bill clinton case and the donald trump case, it was a behavior before they were president and president clinton got into trouble based on trouble while he was president. and i hope this president conducts himself in office in a higher standard. >> so your idea is it was before election day, that's just bracketed it away. >> with regarding presidents, i think we've elected these men as president, recognizing their faults. and let me say that try to lead by example. and i certainly have tried to conduct myself in an honorable manner, and certainly as well regretting the offi inting -- r office i run. >> there are republicans who thought that roy moore was unfit to be a united states senator before these allegations. this is a man who has been kicked off the supreme court twice. this is a man who said one of your colleagues, keith ellison should not be allowed to serve in congress because he is muslim, in direct contradiction of a ban on religious for
office. do you share that belief, that this is a man who is unfit before these accusations? >> yet. and i think there should be no religious test in holding office in this country. and keith ellison and have i different political views, but he is a colleague and a friend, and he has a right to serve in the congress of the united states. >> what do you think about when you think about roy moore possibly winning this election, you and he serving in the same party in congress? >> he'll be over in the senate if that were to be the case. and i hope he is not elected. >> let me tell you something. you're running in new jersey seventh district. it's going to be a very competitive district. you know that. obviously, and we can talk about your vote on the tax bill in a moment. they're going to run ads about roy moore in your district. if i was a democratic consultant and roy moore was a sitting u.s. senator, i would say this is what the republican party stands for. donald trump in the white house and roy moore in the u.s. senate who is credibly accused of molesting a 14-year-old girl. is this the girl you want the give power to? >> i represent a very sophisticated district, and i'm
sure the voters in the district i serve will reelect me based on my views and any such campaign would be demagogic. >> you voted against the tax bill? >> i did. >> you were one of 13 no votes. they say this won't raise taxes on anyone in the middle class. that true when they say that? >> i don't think it's completely true. i've been fight for what is known is the continuation of the deductibility of state and local taxes. that's very important for new jersey because we have the highest property taxes in the nation. >> you -- just zero in on this, they're say nothing one in the middle class is going to see a tax hike. what you're saying and i think is borne out by the analysis is that is not true. >> thing will be some who see a tax hike. there will be some who will not. >> of course. >> there will be more who will. so that's why i have been fighting on this issue. >> leonard lance from, have a great thanksgiving if i don't see you. >> thank you. >> joining us joan walsh and former democratic congresswoman donna edwards of maryland,
senior fellow at the brennan center for justice. this morning when i saw kellyanne conway, i thought to myself, wait a second, is she freelancing or they're now turning the ship towards an endorsement. and the daily beast reporting trump world wanted distance and then key allies lobby the president to reconsider. in the span of a single week, they have gone from laying the groundwork to ditch roy moore to possibly celebrating his victory. >> yeah, that's what she did this morning. i have to say even steve bannon was saying that, you know, he'd kill him himself. hannity was going after roy moore. and then something changed over the weekend. and i don't know what it is. but kellyanne, having said what she did last thursday, this morning i think even the fox folks were kind of like what? >> you could see that they were not anticipating and they were confused as to what the actual line was. >> is this what we're supposed to be saying for the rest of the day? okay. >> donna -- i was just talking
to the congressman here. and you served in congress. one of the things that happens to democrats and i'm not comparing the two situations. they'll run against nancy pelosi when you're running against a democrat in kentucky. i do wonder this figure of roy moore, this is -- i don't think you can unring this bell. but maybe i'm wrong. you've been on the front lines of politics. what do you think? >> well, i have. i can see for myself traveling around the country that the republican party ran against nancy pelosi in a very effective way to take control of the house of representatives. and i have to tell you, i mean, i think that this is really an albatross around the republicans' necks. you look at the defense of donald trump, which was indefensible, and now you add to that roy moore. and they become the party that is, you know, a party that is about pedophiles and sexual predators. and i don't think it's defensible anymore. and i think you can see the tightrope that my friend leonard
lance was walking both on the tax issue but also on this question of sexual assault, sexual harassment. you know, it's a very bad look for the party, the supposed party of family values. >> i should note this is a broader issue than roy moore, and i don't want to make apples -- i don't want to aggregate everything together as all incidents are the same. i want to be clear that what he stands accused of is incredibly serious, and the other things i'm about to introduce are different grades of that. but as to no party having a monopoly on this, today there is a second allegation against al franken there is reporting about glenn thrush, a times reporter. full disclosure also an msnbc contributor. and charlie rose. this is "the washington post," our friend bylined on. this saying he made unwanted sexual advances towards them including lewd phone calls, walking around naked in their presence.
moore in a separate category, it is astounding to me the white house would flirt with continued support. i just can't imagine going back in any moment i've covered politics, someone being really credibly accused. we've got say credibly accused because this is something she shared with people contemporaneously throughout her life. credibly accused of molesting a 14-year-old girl that he picked up outside a custody case when her mama went inside for that custody case that would be a career-ender in any universe i think i've lived in, right? >> well, and, you know, i think that is true. but let's really be clear here. i don't want to reach back 20, 30 years ago with people who were in office. i want to talk about people who want to hold off, about people who were in every single workplace. sometimes for women who really don't have anywhere to turn. and i have to tell you, whether or not leigh corfman had shared her story or it had been corroborated, i listened to her
and i know her words to be truthful. and we have to start trusting women. we have to start believing women. and they shouldn't have to stand in groups and blocks of women making accusations in order to be believed. and i feel like that's the kind of environment that we're in right now. and that's not acceptable. as to the what we should do, we should do different things with different people because they're accused of different things. >> yep. >> and you're right. where roy moore is in a completely separate category than some of the other things that we've discussed. but frankly, i have to tell you, starting with the president of the united states that we knew all along, this has got to stop. >> joan walsh and donna edwards, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks. ahead, michael moore joins me to talk about the state of the republican party and why the gop is jamg through a tax hike on low and middle income americans. others are preparing for a long winter. amazing reporting on the west wing in two minutes after that report.
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regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and, in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. it's an excuse. >> the president's decision to fire former fbi director james comey in the midst of the russia investigation is now widely regarded, include big trump allies including steve bannon as a catastrophic error which triggered the appointment of a special counsel and a probe into probl possible obstruction of justice. so for the president's lawyer, how do you keep him from lashing out again and creating another potentially disastrous self-inflicted wound. the answer, according to a new report from "the washington post" is you convince him it will all be over soon. the post reporting that ty cobb, really his name, the outside lawyer handling the mueller probe for the white house had
initially said he hoped the probe would conclude by thanksgiving, but saying he remains optimistic it will wrap up by end of the year, if not shortly thereafter. the president had warmed to cobb's optimistic message, according to the post there is just one problem. witnesses, legal expert, even republican allies consult beside the post say mueller is a long way from wrapping up his investigation, which is expected to continue well into 2018. on top of that, quote, witnesses questioned by mueller's team warn that investigators are asking about other foreign contacts and meetings that have not yet become public and to expect a series of new revelations. as one operative told "the washington post," it's going to be a long winter. joined by pulitzer prize journalist carol leanig. what is the pitch from ty cobb to the president to try to keep him cooling his heels? >> the white house lawyer ty cobb who has been on the job since this summer basically has said to the president and
everyone in the white house we are turning over records. we are providing in a cooperative manner all of the needs of the special counsel bob mueller. we are providing him with interviews with former and current staff. and all of that will be completed by thanksgiving or december or the end of the year. and in truth, that stage of the process could very well end by the end of this year. but probe is going to go on for some time and remember every prosecutor is looking at a big wide circle of people on the outside to get closer and closer to the inside. and we just don't know what we don't know. we don't know what's going to happen as a result of lower level aides and even paul manafort, former campaign chairman who has been indicted, rick gates, another campaign aide, george papadopoulos, another foreign policy adviser to the campaign being charged. we just don't know all of the things those people are going share with prosecutors, and that
their information is going to lead and point to others. there. >> is a great quote in here i wanted to get your response to. a person close to the trump administration to "the washington post." this investigation is a classic gambino style rollup. you to anticipate this rollup will reach everyone in this administration. that's going to be a terrifying thought for people in the white house. >> well, it is kind of scary because, i mean, a lot of them have not had any up-close and personal experience with a white collar criminal investigation. this is a bit of a rieb brid in -- hybrid because bob mueller's original charge was investigating interference in the 2016 election. almost everyone accepts as a fact that the russian government tried in multiple ways to both tilt this election and to sow discontent in our country and lack of confidence in our institutions. and also tried to infiltrate the trump campaign in many ways,
multiple soft touches to various aides there is a serious criminal probe into the hacking, the stealing, the crime that's there. but this is a white collar probe too. what kinds of crimes, conspiracies were campaign advisers and friends and others involved in that might have helped the russians? >> does everyone have their own legal representation? >> a lot of people have lawyered up. and it's actually a source of the grim discontent inside the white house because some people really do face legal bills that would be three and four times their annual salary at the white house. >> all right, carol leannig, thanks for joining me. >> you bet. greg gianforte. remember him? he assaulted a reporter for asking a question at a campaign. that after a quick break. unites supported by innovative packaging
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remember that time a republican congressional candidate assaulted a reporter, lied about it and still won the election? we just learned that greg gianforte who is currently serving as the sole congressman from montana not only lied to the public and to the press about that assault, he lied to police. the incident unfolded on may 24th, the day before a special election in montana when guardian reporter ben jacobs reported greg gianforte just body slammed me and broke my glasses. the gianforte campaign almost immediately blamed the incident on jacobs himself. gianforte's spokesman shane scanlon released a statement which read in part, greg then attempted to grab the phone that was pushed in his face. jacobs grabbed greg's wrist and spun away from greg, pushing them both to the ground. it's unfortunate that this aggressive behavior from a liberal journalist created this
scene. but audio record big jacobs painted a much different picture. >> the cbo score. because you know, you were waiting to make your decision about health care until you saw the bill and it just came out. >> we'll talk to you about that later. >> but there's not going to be time. i'm just curious. >> speak with shane, please. just -- i'm sick and tired of you guys. >> jesus -- >> the last guy who came in here did the same thing. get the hell out of here! get the hell out of here! let's not do the same thing. you're the guardian? >> yes. and you just broke my glasses. >> the last guy did the exact same thing. >> you just body slammed me and broke my glasses. >> get the hell out of here. >> you'd like me to get the hell out of here. i'd also like to call the police. can i get you guys' names? >> the gianforte campaign through shane scanlon who attached his name to the statement lied and they slandered reporter ben jacobs. the next day montana voters, many who had already voted early
elected gianforte to congress. he later pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault. and in his june 7th apology to jacobs wrote notwithstanding anyone's statements to contrary, you did not initiate any physical contact with me and i had no right to assault you. he also, the congressman promised to give an on the record interview to ben jacobs which he has yet to do. and now nearly six months later, we find out that gianforte lied to the cops. according to the newly released police report, gianforte told the sergeant, quote, i probably shouldn't do it, but i reached out for the phone. he grabbed my wrist. he spun. well ended up on the floor so he pulled me down on top of him. gianforte said the liberal media is trying to make a story. his current spokesman travis hall told the ap no one was misled, which is of course an obvious and demonstrable falsehood, which also means that travis hall's word is worth what shane scanlon's was before him, which is nothing. and gianforte's lie to the police mirrors the lie his
campaign put out the 90 of the incident. they hoped it would fall down the memory hole which for the most part it has. something which i'm sure is not lost on roy moore's campaign. ♪ that you'll ever need ♪ staying ahead isn't about waiting for a chance. ♪ because one is... it's about the one bold choice you make that moves you forward. ♪ ...that you ever need the one and only cadillac escalade. come in for our season's best offers and drive out with the perfect 2017 cadillac escalade for you. get this low mileage lease from around $899 per month. ( ♪ )
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natasha bertrand is a political correspondent for business insider who has covered the russia investigation extensively. just heard about this latest pure by mueller's team. natasha, what do you make of this development? >> well, legal experts that i have spoken to have said that it is a very strong sign that trump himself is under investigation, is under federal investigation. no matter how much the white house wants to convince us otherwise, the fact of the matter is that all signs point to mueller is really homing in on whether or not donald trump had corrupt intent when he fired fbi director james comey in may. because, of course, comey was leading the investigation into russia's interference in the election. and importantly, whether or not trump's campaign colluded with moscow. so by obtaining all of these documents from the justice department, what is happening is he is really trying to get at trump's state of mind. that is the biggest hurdle that mueller is going to have to clear if he is going to make a obstruction of justice case. >> i thought a lot in terms of what that case would look like. in the case of george papadopoulos, who has already
pleaded guilty or paul manafort who has been charged, you know, they open up the federal criminal books and they charge people with chargeable crimes. they indict them. they go through the normal process. in the case of president of the united states who you believe is guilty of obstruction of justice, presumably they're not going indict them in the courthouse. it would have to be a public finding, right? >> right. this is why ultimately the result of mueller's investigation is going to be a little matter. he is going to have to present his findings to congress because it's very murky still whether or not you can indict a sitting president. some people say yes. some people say. no but ultimately, mueller is going to have to go to congress and say we have evidence that trump acted improperly, that he acted corruptly. and these are the reasons why he should be impeach order removed, if it comes to that so ultimately, if he finds that trump did try to obstruct justice in this investigation, it is very unlikely that unless trump resign order is out of office that he would be indicted with a crime.
but until then we lyle have to see what mueller digs up. >> it speaks to the scope of this. mueller has the team that is going through these very complicated and baroque financial transactions that paul manafort's people are rung. but also making what it appears a pretty -- he would have to make a pretty sophisticated constitutional argument were he actually to come against the president. >> right. he would have to -- i mean, the rules would have to be rewritten. i don't know about the constitution, but there is a lot of legal theory throughout that argues against the idea that a sitting president can be indicted. when it comes to whether or not there was actual wrongdoing by people like paul manafort and michael flynn, of course that's much easier. and that's why he is going after them. they are very vulnerable targets as alleged moneylaundering, violations of the faro, the foreign agent reg ration act. legal experts tell me you take on when you're trying to make a case about the entire
organization. he is essentially right now shooting fish in a barrel. whether or not it reaches trump himself, that remains to be seen. >> quickly, new revelations that carter page had high level meetings in hungary, which are being looked into. it appears he did not tell the truth under questioning adam schiff. what is the significance of those meetings. >> it just solidifies carter page as someone who was clearly some kind of high level player. we don't really know what he was doing throughout the election. but ever time he makes a statement, it seems he has to walk it back. every time he says this didn't happen, as you know from doing many interviews, if you push him hard enough, he'll say well, i may have spoken to this person. the fact that he was meeting with high level hungarian officials, it's very questionable, especially given hungary's connection was the russian government there is a lot of organized crime there. there are arguments that have been made that the kremlin has its entire intelligence apparatus in hungry right now. so the fact that he was meeting with the officials before the
election raise mess more questions. >> natasha bertrand, thank you very much. >> thanks, chris. still could come, while the trump administration claims their tax reform won't hurt the middle class, michael moore joins me on why it does that plus a stadium demolition and a bus that stole the night's show in thing 1, thing 2 next. (avo) if you've been struggling with belly pain and constipation, and you're overwhelmed by everything you've tried-- all those laxatives, daily probiotics, endless fiber-- it could be wearing on you. tell your doctor what you've tried, and how long you've been at it. linzess works differently from laxatives.
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...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. don't sweat your booking. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. thing 1 tonight. the thousands of pounds of explosives the massive clouds of dust, there is just something oddly satisfying about watching a building implode. these events are catnip for local news stations. but like the implosions themselves, covering them requires careful planning to avoid mistakes. >> a bridge is about to be imploded this morning to make room for a new bridge. >> i think we're going to stay with this. i think it's supposed to happen right at 7:00 here. >> hey, while we're stalling, good ahead and show the picture. but today as we get going, we have temperatures into the 30s around here. >> you kidding me! who did that! >> wow! >> are you kidding?
>> today hundreds of people turned out in atlanta to watch the implosion of the georgia dome. in fact, it was such a big deal this morning, even the weather channel was there with a camera crew staked thought the perfect spot. what they didn't account for was the local bus schedule. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds.
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their holiday favourites. we need to be ready for my name's scott strenfel and r i'm a meteorologist at pg&e. we make sure that our crews as well as our customers are prepared to how weather may impact their energy. so every single day we're monitoring the weather, and when storm events arise our forecast get crews out ahead of the storm to minimize any outages. during storm season we want our customers to be ready and stay safe. learn how you can be prepared at pge.com/beprepared. together, we're building a better california. tonight with the fate of the trump tax cuts hanging in the balance, the president and his white house are pulling out all the stops to get a bill that will raise taxes on middle class americans through congress. >> so i guess the big question
is how can republicans and the white house propose a bill that would simultaneously cut taxes for the wealthiest americans while effectively creating more of a financial burden for americans earning less than $30,000 a year? >> yeah. the bottom line is that the white house, the president is not going to sign a bill that raises taxes on the middle class, period. >> okay. but here is the nonpartisan tax policy center saying something very different. some taxpayers would pay more in taxes under the proposal in 2019 and 2025. about 9% of taxpayers in 2019, 12% in 2025. in 2027, however, taxes would increase for 50%, that's half, of taxpayers. and who would get their taxes hiked? the middle income quintile, folks right in the middle, 28% would receive a tax cut and 66% would face a tax increase. in other words, 2/3 of people in the middle of earners would see a higher tax bill. taxes up. raising your taxes. in contrast, the tax policy center notes that 98% of the top
0.1% which would be the richest of the rich would of course get a tax cut. and democrats in progressive groups are using republicans' own tax plan in an effort to win back white working class voters. here is part of an ad from one group named not one penny. >> for middle class mainers, their plan raises taxes on people paying for student loans, medical expense and mortgages. it raises taxes on 124,000 maine families. >> coming up, filmmaker and activist michael moore on what the trump tax plan means for the middle class, and what people can do about it, next.
so in ocho order to save these poor people 43 billion, you're cutting 364 billion. >> senator hill, if you would yield for a second. there are no cuts to medicaid in this bill. >> i beg your pardon. this is the cbo score. 179 billion in reduced medicaid subsidies. that's where the money is coming from. is there a fairy dropping it? >> educating one of the ways tax proposal would hurt americans. michael moore, oscar winning film maker and activist just got done with the broadway show. >> she was educating hill abom the fairy that drops the scores. >> that was such a great moment to me because well, here is what
i want to ask you. >> yes. >> we saw this incredible mogulization, people sitting in offices shutting down switchboards. i think a lot of people who fought hard feel the same way about this tax bill. is is it harder to mobilize. how do you assess where folks are? >> it's been clear the public is opposed to it. from what i've heard members of congress, the switchboards continue to be melting down every day. people are calling. they should continue to call 202-225-3121, by the way. >> put it in your phone. >> please, put that -- it's your number. you pay for it. citizens of this country. so, so, you know, i'm not pessimistic about this. i think that, you know, the senate -- enough people worrying about reelection will do the right thing. it won't happen on it's own and
people have to speak it. >> it strikes me, remarkable this bill. it hoses people. it's weird for republicans party to come up with a 1.5 trillion dollar tax hike. there is a switch thing that's happened time and time again and i got to think if this were passed, people know how much taxes they will pay. do you think there -- this is the thing that would break a spell. >> well, i hope so. look, this should be called what it is. it's the trump tax increase. and it's not a tax cut, it's a tax increase. it's the trump tax increase, and it's -- in a way, i'm finding some pleasure in the fact that so many republicans think that this is going to help them when this is going to be the death of them next year at the ballot box. so have at it. [ laughter ] >> for now. >> you can see a lot of them are actually pretty scared of it. >> yeah. >> what do you make of -- we
haven't gotten a chance to talk since the election night, which is a big night for the democratic party for a lot of people that felt disspirited. >> i don't know if it was a big night for the democratic party. the party, the dnc didn't get behind some of the people that won. >> right. >> in fact, it was a victory for the people, for average everyday citizens that decided to run, whether it was an african refugee in month -- montana or transgender. all in these states and cities, people that didn't have the backing of the local establishment democratic party. this is is critical for us to win next year. if people are sitting around waiting for the dnc waiting for the right candidates to run, i'm worried we can't flip congress or the state houses, but if every day average americans will decide to run, and this is one
of the things, i spoke to your producer before coming on here that i really wanted to say tonight is that we've got -- it's new year's day is six weeks from today. okay. we got six weeks. by the end of this year, people have got to be running or at least decide to run. what i want to have happen is for people watching this show right now sitting there thinking about why don't i run, you should run. you should run. i really -- [ laughter ] why not? i mean, what tuesday two weeks ago taught us is that people could just decide to run and get elected, especially right now because so many people are upset with what is going on. >> particularly, we should say, i think people think about flipping congress and, you know, there are state house races decided but with this special election in oklahoma in which -- >> yes. >> 20 something out lesbian won a district trump by 30 points,
she won by 34 votes. there is below the congressional level, there is state, local offices -- >> which are critical. >> right. >> raising $1 million -- >> no, no, in fact, there was debra gonzalez in georgia won a seat there, state seat. she spent $55,000. the republican spent $250,000. that was a republican seat that, i believe, republican decided not to run and she won by spending one-fifth of what the republicans spent. i want to say to people, think about running. you don't need a lot of money to do this. that was proven, and you don't need -- you would be surprised to run for a state house or state senate in many states in maine and alaska and iowa and iowa you need 100 signatures to run for state senate and i think 25 for the state house. that's it. you don't need a lot. you don't -- some of these filing fees in states are $10.
>> right. >> i'm serious. >> 100 signatures and $10. >> you're on the ballot. i think over thanksgiving, what i would like people to do, you're sitting around the table. last year you had to deal with the right wing and he's happy and trump got elected. put in at the kids' table on thursday. don't bother him. let him have his turkey. everybody else will say who do we know that can run on this town? you got to run locally. if we don't flip the state houses this year and 2020 when they take the 2020 census, we're going to get jergerrymandered an and we'll be stuck until 2032 so next year in 2020, we've got to get these state houses and state senates in the hands of democrats or we'll get screwed with the jergerrymandering in 2. >> what stops people -- one of the things -- >> they can't do it. who am i? i'm not smart enough. you're a citizen of this
country. by the way, if you're watching this show now, you're a good person already. i mean, just -- >> i wouldn't go that far. i would generalize -- >> i'll make this general -- if you're watching chris hayes and msnbc, automatically tells me your heart, if not is in the right place, you're curious for the truth and that's what has brought you to this channel. if you wanted something else, you would be watching "dancing with the stars" now or taking -- >> source of a running bid in your broadway show. >> yes. right now you're watching this show. so why not run? why not -- say to your partner, say to your spouse and friends, dang, i was watching chris hayes last night and i got this idea, why don't i run for state senate? because the person we have there now is not doing us good. look at the people defeated two weeks ago. >> one of the things that strikes me to vote is a, how
many uncontested position there is are. >> yes. >> that goes for both parties. there are a lot of unchallenged, if you happen to live in a democratic stronghold, there is people who probably use a challenger, you know what i mean? to make the system work. >> the nationwide average is 4141% of all of those offices you go to vote are not contested. there is one name, a soviet style election. the candidate chris. right here. just vote for that one candidate. no, that's 41 -- we live in a democracy. that's why first of all, think about running because you don't have any opposition in your party, you can at least get through the primary. there is 6,000 state, house and senate seats up for election. 6,000 nationwide. all right? 1400 of them because of term limits don't have an uncome wic
he has a pattern. what the pattern we have from donald trump is a lot of times he'll lie about something that happens and he'll do what he wants to do. >> all of this -- >> i'm convinced -- >> symone -- >> i've convinced her. >> i think you made a lot of progress with symone. all that matters, what will this mean if the president does meet with special counsel and asked about this? if he gives answers he's been giving to the media and others, it may not go well. our coverage continues right now, "cnn tonight" with don lemon. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> it is bombshell breaking news on the russia investigation, really. this is" cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. this is hugely significant. the president, president trump ordered robert mueller, the special counsel heading up the russia investigation fired this past june. and the only thing that stopped him was when his own white house counsel don mcgahn threatened to quit rather than carry out the order. this story was first reported by
the rosenstein firing, the rosenstein the president has not trusted for quite some time, really, if ever. again, that was another reason he kept being discussed. the president kept saying to people that rosenstein comes from baltimore, which is not true. and the idea that he is trying to suggest that he is a democrat. but rosenstein has been in the president's craw future some time. and the idea is if you get rid of rosenstein, then you would have someone else become the attorney general. in this case, it was the number three, rachel brand, and perhaps she would be a better overseer of the special counsel. >> maggie haberman, tremendous reporting. thank you very much. we appreciate you joining us on cnn. >> thank you. >> again, this is our breaking news tonight. hugely significant. president trump ordered robert mueller, the special counsel heading up the russia investigation, fired this past june. and the only thing that stopped
him was when the white house counsel don mcgahn threatened to quit rather than carry out the order. again, the story supported by "the new york times" has been confirmed down now by two other news organizations. let's bring in cnn senior political analyst mark preston, cnn political analyst carl bernstein and white house reporter kaitlan collins. also john dean, who was of course white house counsel, nixon's white house counsel and cnn legal analyst laura coates joins us as well. man, what a story we have here. i'm going get to all of you. but mark, i want to get to you first. let me read this. this is from maggie's reporting. it says the west wing confrontation is the first time mr. trump is known to have tried to fire the special counsel. mr. mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and former senior white house officials in his inquiry into whether the president obstructed justice. so, mark, what's your reaction to this breaking story? >> you know, unfortunately, don, i'm not surprised by it at all. and i don't think anybody who is watching tonight should be surprised by it at all. he has been very adamant about his opposition to this
investigation, which leads you to wonder why has he been so fervently against it? at the same time, there is a track record. he fired james comey because he wasn't considered loyal enough to him. he wanted jeff sessions to leave his job as the attorney general because he would recuse himself from overseeing the mueller investigation now. we know that jeff sessions had offered his resignation, and it wasn't accepted. this is another very big red flag that i think those people out there that are watching that think this has just been going down rabbit holes and that this is a partisan attack or criticism of donald trump that. they need to stop and start looking at the evidence right now. >> of course, if you're only paying attention to conservative media, you might not believe that you might not even get the news on conservative media. laura, i have to ask you this. the president didn't ultimately go through with it, okay. can this be used as evidence against trump for obstruction? >> yes, obstruction is a crime
of endeavoring. you can endeavor to actually obstruct justice, and that can be enough to move the needle towards obstruction, even if you did not accomplish that crime. and all the things you're talking about marks a discussion about a pattern. these are all patterns of consciousness of guilt. these are all contextual clues telling you can infer what his intent would be, and he is endeavored to not only do these things, but in one case, if his own statements to lester holt are to believed, he actually accomplished one form of obstruction by trying to fire and actually firing james comey because of his handling and continuation of a russia investigation that circled around him and his inner circle. >> john dean, i wanted you to hear some of the reporting first before i got to you. what do you make of all this? i'm sure this is reminiscent of when you served as special counsel. >> well, in a way, it is. laura is right in saying that under the statutory law, this is clearly an endeavor. what we have, though, is another
set of laws called the law of impeachment. whatever that is what the majority of the house of representatives says it is. and whether they decide it is an impeachable offense, of course, is a majority vote. but they all draw from statutes and make those the relevant standard. but i think we're just piecing another piece in this big puzzle as to what is intent. and he is making very clear his intent was to obstruct. >> if this had taken place, john, would this have been on par with the saturday night massacre under nixon? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. i think that don mcgahn threatened to resign because he had no choice. he realized he was engaging and possibly joining a criminal conspiracy to remove or to obstruct justice. and that's what a lawyer has to do in a situation like that is either threaten to resign or quietly resign.
in some jurisdictions, they actually have to make a noisy withdrawal when they do it. >> yeah. you were shaking your head in agreement when you said this is another piece in the puzzle, and a big piece. >> it is. because we see the pattern above all things. donald trump through his first year in office has done everything possible to undermine, obstruct, demean, and halt this legitimate investigation into his campaign, the conduct of people in his family. it doesn't mean they're guilty. he doesn't want this investigation to go forward at all costs. he now has engaged the republican party, which is staking its future to some extent in trying to undermine the investigation. what we've seen in the last two weeks from republicans trying to undermine mueller's version is quite extraordinary thinking has to speak to deeper concerns the president might have to this investigation, carl, and where it might lead, no?
>> well, of course he's concerned. look, i can't be in donald trump's head. that's a very dangerous place to be. but i think it's obvious, and he hates where this investigation is going. he tells his friends, oh, there is nothing there. that this is a witch-hunt. they just want to get into my finances. but this is about his conduct, about his conduct in the campaign, about his conduct in the transition, about his conduct in possible obstruction as president of the united states. and it is deadly serious. and the people around him understand he is in legal danger. he may or may not understand he is in legal danger. but that's what we're dealing with here. but there is an extraordinary second element of that. and that is what we are seeing once again with the white house counsel restraining the president of the united states from following his instincts. what is going on in the white house now is trying to contain a president whose basic instincts
are out of control very often, and to do things that are neither reputable, often not legal, and certainly not in keeping with the presidential oath to defend the office in a responsible way. >> with the tradition of presidents who came before him. what is the white house saying, if anything tonight? >> the only statement they put out is from ty cobb, a white house lawyer saying they respectfully decline to comment on this out of respect for the special counsel's investigation and its process, which is a very interesting comment especially in light we just saw anthony scaramucci talk with our colleague chris cuomo saying it's irrelevant president wanted don mcgahn to fire because that's not how it works. it's interesting if you look at what has happened over the last 36 hours. because the white house has put out this information to reporters saying 20 people from the white house has spoken with robert mueller. we've given them all these documents. we fully cooperated. they're putting on this front that they're fully cooperating with the special counsel's office.
but as maggie, who broke the story just pointed out, the white house has spent the last seven months lying to not only reporters, but the american people because they have said that the president did not consider firing him. he did not threaten to fire him. it was not on his mind at all. from sean spicer to sarah sanders to kellyanne conway, to the president himself, these people have lied to the american people saying to the president was not considering firing the special counsel when in fact he was. >> mark, kaitlan, laura, john thank you very much. carl bernstein, john dean, i want you to stay with me. when we come back, president trump tried to fire special counsel robert mueller last june, and the only threat by his own white house counsel to quit stopped him. did the president learn nothing from the firestorm over firing james comey?
president trump called for special counsel robert mueller to be fired in june. but backed down when white house attorney don mcgahn threatened to resign rather than carry out that directive. back with me carl bernstein and john dean. gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us here and continuing to join us here on the program. john, there have been multiple times since june that the president has denied he has considered firing mueller. watch this. >> mr. president, you've sought or thought about, considered leading to the dismissal of special counsel. is there anything bob mueller could do to send you in that direction? >> i haven't given it any thought. i've been reading about it from you people saying oh, i'm going dismiss him. no i'm not dismissing anybody. i want them to get on with the task. but i also want the senate and the house to come out with their findings. >> a quick follow-up on an earlier question to sarah. you discussed the special counsel and the investigation currently. are you considering firing robert mueller? >> no, not at all. >> are you considering firing mueller? >> no, i'm not. >> so, john, his staff and his attorneys also denied it at
least five other times. yet we know now that's not true. >> it is not true. and this all will be used or could be used against him at some point. it's going to come up when he is questioned by mueller, asking him how could he make a public statement that is 180 degrees from the truth when he clearly has evidence that the exact opposite happened. his staff is complicit as well. whether this is sufficient to join a conspiracy to obstruct is not clear, but it's certainly ooh willingness to play along. we need more evidence to see if they actually agreed to conspire. but this is serious stuff, don. and it's a remarkable breaking story because it does show and complete the pattern that we've been seeing. >> yeah. carl, i've got to ask you, and i asked in the tease before the break, did he learn nothing? did he learn nothing from the blowback from firing james comey? has he learned anything over the past year?
>> well, actually, he's been very successful in his own terms, which is to say he acts as if nothing sticks to him. and in fact, very little has. and he, if you talk to the people around him, they will tell you, this is his operating presumption. that if he can get his base riled up about a witch-hunt, that is more important than the lying we just saw, more important than firing mueller or giving pardons. he believes on some level i'm told he can get away with just about anything. and in fact, he has in many regards. and now he has for the last two weeks the republicans on capitol hill tethered to him, tooting a line that is so much in his defense at a moment when they ought to be saying the president of the united states is not above the law. this investigation must go forward. we must find out what happened here.
and instead, mcconnell, ryan, have done nothing to say to their members let our position be we want this investigation to be completed. we support it. let's find out what happened and then we can move on. >> cnn has now confirmed the president ordered the firing of special counsel robert mueller in june. the directive was not followed through. has he realized, john, and maybe people in the white house, maybe they haven't realized because they've never worked there before. many have never held positions in washington that very little remains secret in the white house. you know that. >> that's very true. while they can stay secret for a while, inevitably, they slip out. particularly that was evident going in with this presidency, that he was going to have great trouble with leaks. and it is borne out. one of my earliest tweets about the presidency is how porous it was going to be just watching the campaign. so he's got to assume everything
he does is basically going to be reported at some stage. and he ought to be acting in a way it will not be any problem to be reported. one thing i can say for him, he speaks his mind, which if he was doing this behind closed doors as nixon did, and then it came out, it would be even more devastating. it's pretty devastating coming out the way it is. but at least it's not behind closed doors. does trump know -- does he have to admit to mueller that he tried to fire him when he interviews him in a face-to-face, john? >> well, he is likely to be caught in a lie if he doesn't. mcgahn obviously got the instruction, understood it, realized the implications of it, the criminal implications of it. the conspiratorial. >> it's perjury, right, if he lies? >> well, it depends whether he is under oath. of course he said he would like to be under oath. but it's more likely he'll just be interviewed by mueller with
other aids and other maybe some fbi agents present as well. and there his threat is under 18 usc 1001, which is the false statement statute. you cannot fake false statements to federal official, especially an investigative setting like this. so, yes, he has to tell the truth. >> carl, i want to read more. this is from "the times." this is the president's argument for why mueller should go, okay, why he should be fired. first he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at trump national golf course in sterling, virginia, had prompted mr. mueller, the fbi director at the time, to resign his membership. the president also said mr. mueller could not be impartial because he had most recently worked for law firm that previously represented the president's son-in-law, jared . finally, the president said mr. mueller had been interviewed to return as fbi director the day before he was appointed special counsel in may. are those legitimate reasons, any of those? >> no.
they're not only not legitimate reasons, they're obviously the product of some, quote, opposition research to find out everything they could about mule mueller that might be some kind of potential conflict of interest. none of them seriously are. what all of this is about is only his -- trump's desire to make this investigation go away. that's what he has been doing for a year, to discredit in everywhere possible, to make sure somehow that his family is not brought into this any further. and now the tentacles of this investigation are around members of his own family. those closest to him in his business organization, in this campaign organization. it doesn't mean that they're going to be found guilty or even indicted. but this investigation has touched and surrounded the people he's closest to. and now himself.
he knows he is in the crosshairs of this, particularly with the obstruction element. and he is still determined, according to those that he talks to somehow find a republicans to find a way to out , make this investigation go away so that he is not further burdened by it. >> do you remember that red line, john dean, that he set back in july when he told "the new york times" they cannot look into my finances. they should not be looking into my finances. that was a month after he tried to fire mueller. >> that's right. and he is no position to draw red lines, or his staff. mueller is going to decide the scope of his investigation. he can always go back to the deputy attorney general who is his superior in this instance because of sessions' recusal and get broader authority if he we understand from testimony before the house judiciary committee by rosenstein that indeed he has done this. he has constantly been in touch
about this investigation. so that red line comment is really meaningless, don. >> and he is looking at those financial aspects. we know this from the lawyers for other people who work at the white house who have been asked questions by mueller's investigators about these specifics having to do with trump organization finances, with jared kushner's finances, with donald trump's finances. he is looking into donald trump's finances, particularly as they relate to russians, russian nationals, possible russian businesses. and why would that be? because if indeed there is some suggestion or evidence of going along with russian efforts to undermine hillary clinton's campaign, there might be a financial component aimed at making the president open to ending these sanctions. >> john, i think it's important.
i want to put this tweet up. this is from walter schwab. before you canonize mcgahn, remember, he pressured sessions not to recuse. i bet his objection was not that firing mueller was wrong, but that it was dangerous. also, this is not the first leak to paint mcgahn in a good light at trump's expense. if i were trump, i would wonder about mcgahn. is he implying that mcgahn could make the same decision that you did with richard nixon and cooperate with investigators? >> well, i don't think he has any choice in this instance. his client is not donald trump. it's the office of the president. he is going to have to respond accordingly. i think walter makes a good point about canonizing the counsel for doing what he is supposed to do. but he obviously i think it also suggests that he saw the peril in this and the potential criminality of it. and that's why he backed off and was wise to do so. and that might be why trump has
also changed his tune and say i look forward to talking that to this guy. he may realize he crossed the line. >> by the way, we're going talk to walter schwab at the top of the next hour. thank you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. thank you so much. when when come back, much more on our breaking news. president trump ordered robert mueller fired last june. the only thing that stopped him, a threat of resignation from the white house counsel. we're going to tell you what sarah sanders said just days ago when asked about the president firing mueller.
yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. here is the breaking news. a source confirms to cnn tonight that president trump ordered the firing of special counsel robert mueller last june, backing off only after white house counsel don mcgahn threatened to quit. joining me to talk about this now, cnn political analyst ryan lizza, as well as cnn political commentator robby mook and scott jennings. gentlemen, good evening to you. ryan, i want to start with you. the president tried to pull off his own saturday night massacre, except he couldn't. what is your reaction to this? >> well, it is part of a pattern that we've seen now for a year with this investigation, whether it was, you know, demanding loyalty from comey and of course
so that doesn't mean just because he didn't -- it didn't happen, that he didn't try to do it. his intent was to do it. >> i'm not disputing the reporting. but he has actually gone through with other things. i mean, he obviously fired comey. there have been moments where he did things and there have been moments where he didn't do things. i think the interplay there is important context for this conversation tonight. >> robbie? >> he had -- comey, he had someone at the justice department as a sort of fig leaf and an excuse to do it, right? the rosenstein memo. i think he was probably hoping he would get the same thing here where mcgahn would go through it and he could say oh, my white house counsel did it. he said it was fine. >> go ahead, robbie. i know you want to weigh in on this. >> yeah, first of all the fact that the white house is lying about something that happened, that's not news. but this is another big piece in a picture that's been unfolding as ryan was saying. and this investigation has only
this going to be too much and republicans are going to start flaking away. >> do you want to take a crack at that, scott? >> well, i don't think the republican party is going to peel away from the president of the united states based on one article in "the new york times." i think most republicans will watch what mueller does. will see how it plays out, and they'll make decisions from there. we tend to have this conversation after every story. when is the republican party going to move? well, look, they're going to let the process play out, and we don't know anything yet. we don't know yet when the president is going to talk to the counsel. we don't know what charges, if any more are coming. we don't know what the results of this are going to be. and i don't think one story in one news story is going to cause republicans to go running for the hills. if they haven't already, they've decide heard this going to stick with the president until they have seen some real evidence that they've done something wrong here. >> ryan, is it just one story? >> well, no it's obviously the accumulation of stories. and with each of these stories, we get a little bit -- the picture comes into focus a little bit more. but the general pattern is the president of the united states
doing everything he can up until certain lines to shut this investigation down. it seems like the comey firing was so politically disastrous inside the white house. and i think a lot of republicans warned him that doing something similar to mueller would end his presidency. so it does seem that cooler heads prevailed when he ordered mcgahn to do this. if you remember, there were republican voices on the hill when this was being floated this summer, saying don't do that, don't do that. that would be a red line. so firing mueller has for a lot of republicans, it has always been the red line. and it looked like trump couldn't figure out a way that he could pull the trigger on firing him without it being his direct decision. i think it's very interesting that the president wouldn't do it himself. he wanted his white house counsel to do it, but he wouldn't do it himself. for some reason he was scared. >> i have to ask you this,
because anthony scaramucci, you know a little bit about anthony scaramucci. he seemed to try to pin the blame for this story coming out on steve bannon. that was a short time ago. he spoke with chris. listen. >> i find it very ironic that this information is coming out while he is here in davos, while he's had great fanfare. so, you know, you and me, i would love to get a look at somebody like steve bannon's phone records to see who he is talking to and how this information is out there. second thing i will say is that the president talks to everybody. and so this information apparently happened in june. why it is coming out right now like a big water balloon on the president when he is having a fantastic trip here in davos, meeting with world leaders? >> ryan, how do i don't think the news tonight is going to reverberate in trump world, or is reverberating? that won't be the only finger-pointing going on, will it? >> yeah, i'm sure like anthony, i'm sure there will be a lot of people in the white house trying
to figure out who leaked this. if i remember correctly"the times" had four sources, and other news organizations have now confirmed this as well. look, scaramucci has had a long running feud with steve bannon. and steve a sort of easy scapegoat because he is outside of the white house. he obviously is unhappy with how he was treated there. but just to clear up what he said, there is no evidence, of course, that bannon did this. i think this is just scaramucci trying to point the finger at a sort of the current trump enemy. >> robby, not to give you short shrift, but sarah sanders has been standing at the podium denying this, also saying the president is a looking forward to speaking to the special counsel, and so on. but it seems some of the answer given over the past -- i guess over the past year really have been disingenuous to say the least. >> yeah, but the sky is blue. these guys have lied about
things every single day on his campaign, and now as president. that's not surprising. you know, what is also not surprising, frankly, is the double standard here. i think this is another example where donald trump, for whatever reason appears to get away with things that nobody else can. we obviously had the scandal about him paying a woman off. and we're looking at other elected officials. congressman pat meehan was removed from the ethics committee immediately when allegations came out and evidence came out against him. but donald trump, it just seems to bounce off him. and it's because -- it's ironic the sheer volume of scandal, the sheer variety of scandal means that nothing ever sticks. and i'm sure we're going to be talking about something outages he says at davos tomorrow. but mueller's investigation means this will culminate at some point. and i really think some republicans are going to regret how cozy they got with him and
how hard they defended him when there was no evidence with which to defend him. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, don. >> we've got much more to come on our breaking news that president trump ordered robert mueller fired last june, and his white house counsel threatened to quit rather than carry out that order. we'll be right back. new year, new phones for the family. join t-mobile, and when you buy one of the latest samsung galaxy phones get a samsung galaxy s8 free. yahoooo! ahoooo! plus, unlimited family plans come with netflix included. spectacular! so, you can watch all your netflix favorites on your new samsung phones. whoa! join the un-carrier and get a samsung galaxy s8 free. all on america's best unlimited network.
opportunity to go after steve bannon, no matter what the issue is. bannon is a convenient target. he made himself that. could bannon be one of the four people that perhaps talked to maggie? very much so, sure. >> does that really matter? >> no, of course it doesn't matter, because it's true. >> but i think it may matter in one respect. i sort of look at don mcgahn and wonder, you know, the story puts him in a very positive light. why now is the story coming out? we've learned recently in this week we've learned jeff sessions was interviewed by the special counsel's office. other intelligence leaders -- it's been reported recently that they too have been interviewed. there are other reports that show that this obstruction of justice element of the investigation has moved forward, is moving forward. and so i wonder if the president isn't maybe returning to this idea now as the investigation intensifies, returning to the idea of getting rid of mueller. and this isn't somebody leaking to stop that. >> oh my god, if he did, that really. >> you think people are concerned possibly that he might try to fire him from the white house?
>> leaks happen often for a reason. sometimes it's just interpersonal battles like he is suggesting. but sometimes there are bigger reasons. i just wonder about that. this story paints mcgahn in a very positive light, but it also makes it much more difficult for the president to make a move on mcgahn. >> mcgahn, bannon and priebus all share the same lawyer. i think mcgahn is like pinto from the movie -- remember the movie with belushi, "animal house." the angel and the devil. i think he was the angel in the voice of trump who might have had the impulse to say enough of this. >> what does that make trump? [ laughter ] but i think, look, his initial reaction is let's just get rid of this guy. but since then, since he was talked into not doing it, if that's what happened, this investigation has continued on for months and months and months.
and it will culminate in a few weeks if trump meets with the special prosecutor. so i don't think they're leaking this to fire him. i think that's well past that. >> that's coming out? >> i don't know why. i have no idea why it's been leaked now. >> let me just say, this whole conversation, and the conversation yesterday about the secret society and nunes memo, the nunes memo. all of it is part of an arc to try to discredit law enforcement, in this case the department of justice. and for those of us who worked in the department of justice, or at least the fbi's got 35,000 people who work there. if trump -- trump was so upset that he wanted to fire mueller, if that didn't happen, he is going to discredit. one way or another he is going to try to undermine and get rid of this investigation. and by doing so, undermining the rule of law. this is why republicans -- i know that he's got an 80% base. but the republicans in congress,
leaders in congress should step up and stay this is not who we are as a nation. put your country before your -- >> how many times, governor have, you said that and other people said that? i don't think it's going to happen. >> there are only so many institutions you undermine. really, how machiavellian can you be to put this, the ends justify the means? we don't care which institutions of this country we're going haul under, including the fbi, including the department of justice, including anything that gets in his way to be able to be clear of this investigation. >> this is the republicans' best vehicle. and the least they can say -- >> the best vehicle is what? >> to get whatever legislation or agenda -- >> oh, i see. . it's an ends justifies the means is what you're saying. >> yes. >> back to roy moore. let's put him in. >> that's the same thing. i asked the evangelicals. the ends justify the means. go on. >> that is horrifying. >> can we rewind the tape back to october before the election? harry reid was throwing firebombs at the fbi. harry reid was saying that the
institution is corrupt and that they might have broken federal law when it was against hillary clinton at that time. so now the tables are concerned. all of the sudden the dialogue is change. both parties have attacked the fbi. both parties have attacked. >> that may be the case. but what we see happening now from trump's loyalists in congress is an unprecedented in modern times attack by congress on our institutions, on our law enforcement. and i have to say there is a reason why this is happening. the republicans could have opposed trump. republican members of congress could have opposed trump in the primaries. many of them remain silent. he won 47% of the republican primary vote. he was weaker then than he is now. now he's got about 85% approval. if they didn't do it then, they're not going to do it now. now they are stuck. and they are the party of government. and they have no one to blame. and so they've got to come up with these conspiracy theories
that unfortunately are eroding public confidence. >> i think that's why most people will disagree with you. because where democrats may have been upset with comey during the investigation, during the election, they said comey did it wrong. they said they had respect for comey. they did not have an orchestrated attack on the institution of the fbi. this has been an orchestrated attack on the fbi and on law enforcement in general from republicans, including conspiracy theories. that didn't happen with democrats. >> i don't think so. >> and mueller and comey are both republicans. >> i don't think it's the top of the fbi is who they are going after. not that the men and women that do the everyday job. i don't think that's who they were attacking. i think they were attack -- >> so people who they're talking about in e-mails and what have you. >> well, but they were higher level. you're stalking about struck and that whole thing? >> 35,000. >> they were talking 35,000 fbi agents. they're attacking the top and the intent of those two.
>> they're attacking the institution. and the two people they're putting a broad brush against it. and now it's infecting what would be normal republicans. like ron johnson. i feel like he had a tin foil hat on yesterday as he was drooling at the thought of a secret society. it turns out he was embarrassed. >> hold your thought. we'll be right back. we'll continue this conversation. don't go anywhere. it's absolute confidence in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn't. it's inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn't. it's backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn't. for those who never settle, it's either mercedes-benz certified pre-owned, or it isn't. the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. now through february 28th. only at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer.
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breitbart. that's become the new normal in the republican party. >> the crazy thing is that all day yesterday, fox news was all over this secret society thing. and other than one anchor today they didn't say one word. >> shepard smith. >> exactly. because they've been embarrassed. but who is the biggest proponent of these kind of conspiracy theories? it's like sean hannity, et cetera, who are out there taking pages from breitbart, from info wars, et cetera. that should be frightening to everybody. because you've got a president who had the whole conspiracy thing down pat with barack obama and born in kenya, you know, ted cruz's father. >> on the grassy knoll. >> and now it's infected the mainstream republican party. and that is such a shame. >> how does one have any credibility, especially when you mention that with any journalist when you had a grassy knoll conspiracy.
when you're the perpetrator of the president not being born, of a birther. how does one have any credibility when it comes to anything? >> i would say we're post facts. the game now is about -- >> i refuse to go along with this. >> we can't allow it. >> let me read your tweet you. you said, and you tweeted this a short while ago. you said for trump to have ordered mueller fired, even when the public backlash over comey's firing was still intense shows just how bent on impeding the russia investigation he was, and just how much he apparently has to hide. what do you think the president has to hide? >> well, i think that the president and his team at least encouraged, if not were more involved in russia's efforts to influence our election. we'll see what happens. i think he's probably got something to hide with regard to his business dealings with russian intelligence and russian mafia figures prior to the
election. and i think also he's got a lot to hide with obstruction of justice now. he's got plenty to hide. we'll see what happens with this investigation. but to think just a month after he fired comey, when there was still so much backlash, that he then ordered the firing of mueller. that tells you. that tells you quite a lot about what lengths he is willing to go to, even when there is plenty of public opposition. >> rob, quickly. >> but everyone has already hung the president. he is already guilty, right? we haven't seen one ounce -- >> no one has said guilty here. >> that's the implication here. it's obstruction of justice. [ overlapping dialog ] >> the implication -- >> tried to fire mueller. >> the implication -- >> fire comey. if he's got nothing to hide. >> he talked to his lawyer. >> he gave the order. >> it didn't happen. >> the reason it didn't happen is because -- >> the pr backlash. come on. >> i got run. i got to run. thank you all. >> nice try. >> fascinating conversation. i appreciate having you.
when we come back, president trump ordered the firing of robert mueller back in june, only backing off when the white house counsel threatened to resign instead of following the president's instructions. is this proof that the president is trying to obstruct justice, or our experts will weigh in, i should say. we'll be right back. not in this house. 'cause that's no average family. that's your family. which is why you didn't grab just any cheese. you picked up kraft mozzarella with a touch of philadelphia for lasanyeah! kraft. family greatly.
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