Fitzgerald Case News Today

Attorney, this could be the garden state trail that federal agents are now pursuing. our question tonight, when does hardball politics become a crime? and is the behavior of the new jersey governor and his tainted political crew such a case? michael isikoff, cnbc news investigative correspondent, and stanley brand, current public corruption lawyer. he was general counsel to the u.s. house of representatives. michael isikoff, what do you make of? what has been said by del tufo about a possible ri...

Possible. theyre also disputing there was any evidence of sexual assault. >> i know youve been following this case before this court session. thank you very much for joining us tonight. when does political hardball cross the line? lets play "hardball." good evening. im chris matthews out in san francisco. let me ignite things tonight with this statement by the former new jersey attorney general and former u.s. attorney, robert del tufo, that prosecutors may be looking at a rico charge agains...

Attorney, robert deltufo, that prosecutors may be looking at a rico charge against the office of governor chris christie. is this real? is there a case that the pattern of politics here evident in the bridge closings, the possible denial of hurricane relief money to hoboken, the accusations by a democratic of interfering with a judicial proceedings in huntingdon county constitutes evidence of a criminal enterprise? is this what led federal authorities to interview mayor dawn zimmer? would this h...

Governor, guadagno, to mayor zimmer that if she didnt play ball on the rockefeller project on the waterfront there she wouldnt get any more federal money from the state, i mean more state money. would that be if that were determined to be a fact, youre saying that wouldnt be criminal? >> right. i would defend that the same way i defended on your show when they promised joe sestak a job to get him out of the race against arlen specter. its political maneuvering. not every political maneuver, not ...

Schar, who is this top flight guy coming in from the fitzgerald case -- or actually the blagojevich case out in illinois which he won that prosecution. let me go to stan brand. does this look like an important development that theyve combined their legislative forces here? >> big-time. because you know, chris, from working in the congress, when you have competition and rivalries between two chambers investigative committees you have problems. its much better for them to try to coordinate and get...

Lets listen to what mr. del tufo had to say earlier today on msnbc. >> it seems as if more things are popping up. and i wouldnt be surprised if there were a potential rico case here that the enterprise would be the governors office or the state of new jersey and the offenses would involve bridgegate, would involve hoboken and would also involve hunterdon county, which is something that has not been addressed very clearly. >> let me go to stan brand. what jumps out at me after looking at hundreds...

And if it is, thats very good corroborating evidence. >> well, im going back to the points of issue here. again, youre the lawyer. if you can say that federal funding was denied somebody which was appropriately due them, and you can produce corroborating evidence, contemporary testimony in the form of a diary entry, dont you have a pretty good case to take to a grand jury in that instance? >> if you have those things, yes. >> well, you got em! >> no. what is missing here, chris, is that the chri...

Occurred. >> well, thats what im asking. thats the case here. thats the matter here. back to michael. that is the matter. these are all allegations and only at that stage. but if these are proven, what are we talking about here if not rico? what are we talking about? >> look, there could be multiple crimes. but normally what the fbi would have wanted in a case like this is after the lieutenant governor made the statements that dawn zimmer said she made would have been for dawn zimmer to come to ...

Missing a lot of pieces yet. >> okay. lets go to the house. lets go to the big development today. the house and the senate in trenton have done something a lot of people were worry theyd wouldnt do. they have combined forces. they have formed a joint committee of the house in the senate legislative investigative committees there. its called a super committee. theyve got the same guy, reid schar, who is this top flight guy coming in from the fitzgerald case -- or actually the blagojevich case out...

Rockefeller group. and we dont know if they exist at this point. >> and the u.s. attorney, a democratic appointee is not going to bring a rico case based on a swearing contest between the lieutenant governor and the mayor of hoboken. he is going to want what we lawyers call corroboration. is the contemporaneous evidence that substantiates and will allow them to prove in front of a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that these things actually occurred. >> lets go to that point, stan. if you have a di...