feeling that they ve been cut out of this. and then by virtue of that, saying it s unfair. so, that s one argument. but if they were to embrace participation in the hearings, then they, in effect, legitimize them. and they ve also been arguing that it is an illegitimate, sham process. so, that means the president has sort of a rock and a hard place decision. if he takes part, he can really be constrained in calling it illegitimate. if he doesn t, then he continues the ability to not mount his own defense within the confines of the impeachment hearings. so, that s the dilemma, and we ll have to see which way the white house goes. part of what could come up with this, of course, is that come the next phase, if there is, in fact, an impeachment finding in the house and it goes to the senate where republicans are in charge, that may be an environment where the white house would feel more comfortable. so, that s sort of what we re looking at in terms of the time pressure on president trump
saying and what he s actually doing. and it s broadly into international affairs because if they re going to be convinced along democratic lines, they need to see something clear about him doing something wrong intentionally. the evidence in favor of the fact that donald trump exercised inappropriate use of power but you re right, it doesn t seem to be budging public opinion. and nothing donald trump could do could change public opinion. they ve stuck with him through thick and thin. and i don t think there s anything, barring a catastrophic event that s going to change that. and same thing for the senate. he s not going to get through an impeachment finding.
all-consuming impeachment finding. the staffing levels are low. the people there are fatigued about the incredible pace of the stories and scandals this white house has had to deal with. as much as they have been talking about they would welcome a impeachment finding, this is something that is going to wear on them day after day after day. and the fact that so many people around the president told me when the mueller probe finally ended they felt like a cloud had been lifted from the white house, they could finally sort of try to get some stuff done, they could start focusing on re-election. and it was the very next day, it was the day after mueller s testimony the president mentio s it in this phone call. he criticizes mueller s performance. he thought it was over and he was emboldened and he did it, democrats believe did he it again. and he asked a foreign power to help. you can see how exhausted the i believe they sent the talking points to in s office? nancy pelosi s office o
think the way we have to look at this is how do we make sure the public understands and knows what s in the mueller report. the senate is not going to convict donald trump if the house impeaches him. that s pretty obvious. they won t even look cross ways at him when he does outrageously bad things and they convict him on the impeachment finding. so what is the goal here. the goal is to make sure the public is fully informed of what the president actually did to obstruct justice. there is ways to do that including making mueller testify and he knows how important it is that he publicly talked about what he found. again and again, to get through to the american people that this is not a president that was exonerated in no way, shape, or form. it s interesting you say
democrat from missouri, clair mccaskill and msnbc analyst. i m curious your read on all of this as someone who had to navigate representing missouri and a state where democrats were not necessarily the majority at all for many years and navigating the imperatives of what the party may want to do and what you had to tell your voters. i think the way we have to look at this is how do we make sure the public understands and knows what s in the mueller report. the senate is not going to convict donald trump if the house impeaches him. that s pretty obvious. they won t even look cross ways at him when he does outrageously bad things and they convict him on the impeachment finding. so what is the goal here. the goal is to make sure the