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Going to use this, that you use the whole thing. its like a good cop/bad cop argument. youve got a bad cop and the point is to get the good guy to talk to the bad guy. its not surprising to me that theres a food fight now because whats happened is, the democrats in that committee have gone back and said, it doesnt look like a lot of stuff was gotten by the bad cop and they are saying, no, we think it was necessary to get him to talk to the good cop. thats the explanation, as clear as i can -- as...

Youre going to have to have sleep deprivation, constant questioning, youre going to have to be at them. you have to find a fine line where we dont violate the all the norms of morality. but at the same point -- >> i want to interrupt you. do you have evidence that any of those stronger techniques youre talking about, the waterboarding, the sleep deprivation that they did in fact lead to information that got osama bin laden? >> i havent read the specific files, because i was involved in the invas...