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Care debate with emergency rooms and so forth. >> in other words, you didnt put any money in, youre getting the higher wage and the benefits the guys who paid the money are receiving, youre still getting them, but you didnt pay for them. its a free rider system. >> i mean, there are closed shops, there are open shops, right? that decision can be made there, correct? >> yeah. i think. >> if im a union guy or woman, id say, okay, well, lets negotiate for union members. >> yeah. >> and union member...

Class for the last 50 years, or the 50 years after world war ii was something called the high-wage middle-skilled job. but the relentless march of globalization and technology is really eliminating that. now theres only a high-wage, high-skilled job. and theres no answer other than certainly more education. i dont know what else we need. everyones going to have to upgrade their skills. >> what does that mean for the future not only of unions but the future of the strong, vibrant middle class whe...

Answered -- >> stronger middle class in union states. >> thats the question that has to be answered, what willie put out. i think there are other factors. >> rhetoric inside the capitol building was also heated. before the bill passed, democratic state representative douglas geist painted the repercussions in stark terms. >> were going to pass something that will undo 100 years of labor relations. and there will be blood. there will be repercussions. we will relive the battle of the overpass. >>...

Unions pay -- play an absolutely critical role, especially in an era where the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting poorer. ceo salaries have exploded over the past 25 years in a grotesque manner. >> so how well are they doing? >> unfortunately, though, union leverage is being stripped away by globalization, by an i.t. revolution, by outsourcing that certainly does -- >> but you asked the fundamental question earlier, and mike, one of you may have asked it, right-to-work states have, be...

Because the way i view it is, workers now have freedom to choose. >> hang on. are you serious? are you serious? this is not anti-unions? at its core, undermines the ability for unions to organize. you can make any argument you like -- >> all right, richard. lets let him answer the question. >> this does not deal with organizing or collective bargaining, this has nothing to do with the relationship between an employer and union. this is about the relationship between unions and workers. and this ...

Debate with george w. bush. >> youre right. youre right. >> carl, do you have a question for the governor and not a statement? >> yes. >> sure. >> 15 seconds. >> i have a question. >> governor, lets see how this works. >> i have a loaded question. >> were holding our -- no. >> my loaded question would be, how do you distinguish your position on this from a real question about the welfare of workers in a state that historically unions have had a huge role in and in making michigan a better place?...

>> but there were a number of forces at work. >> look at rhode island. look where unions have been the strongest. look at the shuttered factories. im not being anti-union here. im pro-union. i want factories in connecticut, in rhode island, in massachusetts, across new england reopened. but the jobs from overseas, theyre not going there. theyre not going there because of work force rules that i think even trump told me were outdated and outmoded. >> is our education system outdated? >> no. >> ou...

Freedom. heres another side. unions have played a big role of people having their rights protected, as you well know, to ensure that safety standards are -- >> okay, but thats not answering my question, harold. >> union dues are used for that purpose also. >> but you cant take that money from me if i dont want to give it to you. >> this is all about -- but this is about political purposes. political purposes. so theres a broad set of reasons that these dollars are used for. >> youre still taking...

Or not. >> right. >> i asked bob riley, ive said this 1,000 times, it seems extraordinarily important if youre a union member in the northeast, and like me, you want your factories running again. i asked bob riley, i dont understand, why did mercedes go to tuscaloosa county, alabama, instead of filling up the factories in connecticut? 15 minutes away from yale. or in rhode island. 20 minutes away from brown. i mean, right by some of the most highly trained, brilliant minds in the world. thats ea...