[ ♪ theme ♪ ] >> stephanie: hello representative john yarmouth coming up right at the top of the hour to tell us about the fiscal cliff clayen. jacki schechner healthcare geek. i ahead an article on the hill, we should warn the cockles -- leave medicaid out of the talks. liberals are pressing to take medicate off the table in deficit reduction talks. you talked about this in our last jacki's healthcare corner. >> the medicaid expansion is interesting because part of the way that we're going to get everybody covered is expanding medicaid up to 133% of poverty. that's part of the affordable care act. and the president and the administration are being very strong right now about insisting that states have to follow the law to a t and not be able to implement it incrementally or partially. so not only leave it out of the talk but the administration is holding firm right now and insisting that this medicaid expansion either take place in its entirety or not at all. >> stephanie: i wound up the healthcare bot. >> sorry. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: very good. love you. now here she is putting on her little news hat in the current news center. >> good morning. we'll do some other stuff for you. abc news' diane sawyer sat down for an exclusive interview with the record breaking 20 female senators of the incoming 113th congress. the 14 -- the 16 democrat and four republican women will be sworn in january 3rd. senator susan collins of maine tells sawyer that when it comes to the current on-going fiscal cliff negotiations, it would be better if the women were running the show. >> i think if we were in charge of the senate and of the administration, that we would have a budget deal by now. >> go, girl power! now that we're coming up at the end of the year, we're getting a chance to take a look at what set records and who should have set the record straight. first of all twitter has revealed the most retweeted tweet of the year. and it is this photo. if we could -- there you go. from the obama campaign. it popped up election night with the caption four more years. within hours, it not only became the top retweet of the year but the top retweet ever. people in more than 200 countries around the world shared the photo of the president hugging the first lady. and politifact.com says that the romney campaign has the dishonor of having the lie of the year! that would be president obama sold chrysler to italy which would then move u.s. jeep production to china. chrysler denied the claim. the media said it was untrue. the public was outraged. the romney campaign spread it anyway. we're back after the alright, in 15 minutes we're going to do the young turks. i think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that we're honest. they know that i'm not bs'ing them with some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. when the democrats are wrong, they know that i'm going to be the first one to call them out. they can question whether i'm right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us. 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[ male announcer ] come try our new menu and sea food differently! and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99. salad, sandwiches, and more. >> stephanie: sexy liberal web site. sexy liberal on web site. go, get your tickets for the january 19th sexy liberal palooza, going very fast. hal sparks joins us in studio next hour for hump days with hal. the president on the fiscal cliff. >> obama: i remain optimistic there are enough people of good will in this town that recognize our economy will be much better off. american families will be much better off if we get this done. >> stephanie: one of those men of goodwill joins us now. representative john yarmouth of the great state of kentucky. hello, congressman. >> hello stephanie. >> stephanie: didn't we have this conversation last year at this time? here we are back at the cliff. >> we need to start put youing out annual fis cav cliff cards to each other. >> stephanie: it is debt ceiling crisis season. what is your take on what, if anything is different in this post-election? >> well, i think that what's different -- two things different. one is clearly the president now has all of the leverage and has nothing politically at stake and so he's in a very much a stronger position. and the other thing is that even the most conservative members are being told when they go home they need to get something done. so i think it has changed markedly. >> stephanie: that's what i think. they're trying to play gotcha with the president. you said this then though and -- well, that was then. this is now you know. he has more leverage. he won the election. that's how we do things here, right? >> absolutely. i think obviously we heard a number of republicans say publicly that we need to -- that they need to acknowledge that. their party needs to acknowledge that and take what they can get. so i think the atmosphere is much more conducive to some kind of compromise. but from the republican side. and probably on our side, there is a little bit less. feeling we need to compromise particularly when you start talking about medicare and medicaid and social security. those are very tough. >> stephanie: we were talking about that. there is an article in "the hill" about liberals saying leave medicaid out of the talks. i know henry waxman says keep your hands off the medicaid program. do you think that's going to happen? >> i think -- i don't think that will be part of whatever deal is reached between now and the end of the year. i don't think it should be. the idea that we could -- you could reform or change any program that affects tens of millions of people so significantly and you could make a change with two people negotiating behind closed doors i just think that would be irresponsible. even if it is the president speaker of the house. >> stephanie: harry reid said this yesterday. there's not going to be time to get something done by christmas. obviously the republicans are not really coming to the table with anything serious. so how does this play out and what is the actual deadline, do you think? >> i still think if i were betting, i would bet that we're going to pass the senate bill in the house which basically gives everybody a tax duty on their first $2 -- tax cut on their first $250,000 and higher rates go into effect after that and everything else gets pushed until next year. kick the can down the road. we don't go to sequester and have the across-the-board cuts of 9% which would really damage the economy. then we try to come back with some kind of a more comprehensive deal in the next congress. >> stephanie: does that technically take us off the cliff? what is the actual deadline for that? >> the cliff is january 1st. the cliff is the combination of across the board spending cuts and all of the -- the bush tax cuts expiring. you also have unemployment benefits ending for a couple million people if we don't act and you have the payroll tax holiday and that's the same -- that's also december 31st so everybody's payroll withholding goes back to 6.2 instead of 4.2%. that's kind of the cliff and the phrase being coined as i think i've said before on your program, i think it was a conspiracy of editorial cartoonists. who came up with the cliff idea so they could draw something. but all of these things combined result in taking huge amounts of money out of the economy. >> stephanie: congressman passing this -- the middle class tax cuts, that's not going to avoid the cliff is what my question is. right? >> no, not by itself. you still have the automatic spending cuts which should go into effect. but if the tax portion is really a more significant portion because in total you're talking about over ten years right now there are $5.5 trillion worth of cuts if we don't change it. about $1.2 trillion of that is cuts in spending and the rest is the tax part. so the taxes really are the biggest part. >> stephanie: congressman i've asked this over and over. maybe you can give me a better understanding. why are we even talking about you know, doing some tax rates that's in the middle of 35% and 39%. as the white house has indicated, we'll go over the cliff and rates automatically go to 39% where they should be and then we come back with a new congress and fix it in a week or two. >> that's certainly a strategy if the republicans want to play it that way. that's up to them at this point. it is certainly a viable strategy from our perspective. democrats aren't going to get blamed if that's happens. the president's made clear what he wants to see happen. the public is overwhelmingly on his side. on our side two to one in terms of the polling. they think the taxes ought to go up on the wealthiest americans and so there's really not much political downside for us democrats to do that. >> stephanie: and they're looking at this same polling and yet john boehner is still saying things like this. >> where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house walks this process the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. >> stephanie: how many times can the president say it? you know, this is not negotiable. tax rates have to go up on the wealthiest. >> right. well you know, it is a very strange situation. it does feel a lot like groundhog day. but i think john boehner knows what's going to happen and right now, what he's trying to do is make a deal that won't cost him his speakership and it also won't be undermined by people in his caucus. he needs to have a significant share of republican's vote for whatever we do and i think he's trying to do that. that's why he sent us home a day early last week and canceled business this week. i think he's trying to keep his own people out of town so he has more flexibility in coming up with a solution. >> stephanie: you know it seems to me, representative, you described it exactly right. that's the problem is that they're doing what's best for them politically and you know, the president and you guys are trying to do what's best for the country. what's best for people that are hurting. >> that's absolutely true. it is a shame. what's more of a shame, in addition to the fiscal cliff we still have to pass a farm bill. we still have to do -- fix the -- what's called the sgr an automatic cut reimbursement to doctors who provide medicare services. >> stephanie: right. >> we have the violence against women act. we have the national defense authorization act. all of these things have to be done by the end of the year and he's canceling days of business. so it is a bizarre situation right now. we have -- we came in last night. 6:30. we had one vote to approve the journal. very significant. we're in session all day today. we have one vote. it is a procedural vote. and then we're out of session as of 1:00 tomorrow. >> stephanie: that's a little -- that's a little counterintuitive. we have so much to do. let's work less. good luck. do you have hope for -- better hope for the new congress in the new year? >> i do. again, i think the mood is changing and i think the new members who are coming in are -- were elected in a different environment with a different mandate, if you can call it a mandate. they were elected to get something done. >> stephanie: yep. >> the 84 or 85 or 86 who are leaving, good riddance! >> stephanie: nicely said, sir. all right, representative john yarmuth, thank you sir. >> i love him. [ applause ] >> stephanie: looky here, an unsolicited testimonial. dave in new hampshire is on to my scam. dear ms. miller, i stumbled on to your program six or seven years ago. it is crystal clear that something afoot. i don't mean your hammertoe. we record your tv show on current to watch after work. oh, thank you. you can watch it because it repeats right after so it is on -- what is it, 9:00 to noon eastern and noon to 3:00 again. >> six hours. >> holy crap. >> stephanie: we purchased a soda stream. er with adding a second rescue drug. met you, john and aisha in boston. appeared at your test mony. my wife and i are from chick wag ga. coincidence? i think not. >> stephanie: they're supporting a hometown girl. thank you to you and your lovely wife. how lovely of you. let's go to chase in providence, rhode island. >> caller: good morning, you sexy liberal. >> stephanie: thank you. you, too. >> caller: i'm a little offtoppic from the fiscal cliff but i think i can bring us back. >> stephanie: all right. >> caller: there was a shooting on an indian reservation a couple of days ago. five people were left dead. a shooting was -- has happened in oregon. the media keeps hyping up the fiscal cliff and they actually had a report on cnn where they were showing this woman blathering about how she's going to lose her unemployment and everything and i feel like there seems to be a tie-in between the economy, what's going on and this constant rampage. i'm wondering what at point is our government going to speak about it. i'm not one to condone removing all guns. we need to have a conversation. >> stephanie: also, i think everybody's going a little crazy around the holidays. i think there are a lot of factors right now. everybody i know is -- we're having mutual bitch session all day on the phone. 17 minutes after the hour. kids, i don't know what we would do without carbonite here at the "the stephanie miller show." t-bone has all of our contacts, guest names and numbers in his computer. you have everything. >> everything. >> stephanie: only reason are you have job security. >> thank you. >> stephanie: you have the jingles and the sound bytes and the music. i have show prep stuff stuff from my book. pictures, sexy liberal stuff. one power outage, one virus one stolen computer, boom, there goes everything you have unless you have carbonite. it is all up there hey hey in the cloud. that's what i'm saying. >> hey hey? >> i think you were mixing your rolling stones. >> stephanie: get off my cloud but my stuff is in there. once you have carbonite online back-up, you'll never have to remember to back up again. then your computer files are backed up automatically whenever you're connected to the internet for $59 for the entire year, get unlimited back-up space for your computer plus access the files from anywhere. computer tablet, smart phone. they have a plan for your small business. one low, flat annual fee. go to carbonite.com today. type in my offer code, stephanie. you get a free trial no credit card required plus three bonus months with your subscription. offer code is stephanie. 18 minutes after the hour. right back on "the stephanie miller show." >> oh, god that feels weird and good all at once. >> announcer: it's "the stephanie miller show." rich, chewy caramel rolled up in smooth milk chocolate. don't forget about that payroll meeting. rolo.get your smooth on. also in minis. where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. every day presents another exciting issue. from financial regulation, fraud on wall street. things everyday exploding around the world that leave no shortage for exciting conversations. at the end of the show, you know what has happened, why its happened and more importantly, what's going to happen tomorrow. >> announcer: stephanie miller. ♪ oh here she comes watch out boy, here she comes she'll chew you up ♪ ♪ she's a man-eater ♪ >> that's not what i heard. >> stephanie: all right. it is "the stephanie miller show." welcome to it. 23 minutes after the hour. 1-800-steph-12. speaking of beaver -- >> hey! >> stephanie: right there. if you're watching on tv -- he's going to need his own facebook page at some point. >> stephanie: steph, when you planted bucky beaver staring at jim, the visual tension was hysterically entertaining as though bucky was hypnotizing jim to leave for another voice-over job. [ ♪ hypnotic ♪ ] that's one ambitious christmas beaver. i know you're constantly juggling balls during your show but i know with your theatre degree, you can pay attention to bucky's blocking. [ applause ] >> stephanie: all right. we're starting to lose it. okay. all right. >> we still have more than a week to go. >> stephanie: i know. >> obama: the most important thing we can do is make sure the middle class taxes don't go up on january 1st and i'm pretty confident that republicans would not hold middle class taxes hostage to try to protect tax cuts for high-income individuals. >> yeah, we'll see. >> stephanie: that's what john yarmuth thinks will happen. the president's carney. >> very specific spending cuts, including savings and entitlement programs and again it's not a mystery. we've seen this before. this is the document. >> stephanie: liz in illinois. you're on "the stephanie miller show." hey, liz. >> caller: hi. i'm in illinois. we don't care about the tools in wisconsin, indiana and michigan. because we this -- they have to learn that these republicans aren't going to do -- >> stephanie: thank you, liz. i enjoyed your work as charlie brown's teacher. i don't know what was wrong with that call. was it me? [ applause ] >> she was using her "sports illustrated" sneaker phone. or football phone. whatever. >> stephanie: something about republicans in michigan. wa wa. she had some good points. >> speak directly into the clown's mouth. >> stephanie: right, okay. would you like fries? >> i want fries! >> stephanie: senator tom harkin, democrat of iowa yesterday. >> all of you negotiators who are now negotiating on this so-called fiscal cliff and stuff. keep your hands off medicare and keep your hands off medicaid. >> stephanie: that's what i was just saying in the article on the hill. it warms the cockles of my liberal heart. >> you almost said cobbles. >> stephanie: i wonder if he says -- >> roger hedge corn. >> stephanie: senator jay rockefeller echoed the thoughts. >> we're not budging on medicare or medicaid. >> stephanie: hooray! here's other good news. [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] dozens of republicans open to bucking the norquist pledge. for all of the talk of his ironclad grip on the g.o.p., a large and growing numbers say they have renounced his pledge. i love the stories and they talk about what would be acceptable to grover or not or -- who cares! who is this guy? >> i'll call. >> poopy head. >> stephanie: until a final deal emerged tough to predict his response. who cares! >> what power does he have? >> stephanie: there goes the norquist. senator mitch yesterday. >> i think it is going to be extremely difficult to get it done before christmas. >> stephanie: sorry, that's harry reid. >> you want me to do harry reid again? >> stephanie: what i was saying to john yarmuth. >> i think it will be extremely difficult to get it done before christmas. >> stephanie: they aren't going to have time to work on the programs. they need to get them, as john said the middle class tax cut done. >> nobody should trust democrats to put a dime in new revenue toward real deficit reduction. or to stop their shakedown of the taxpayers. >> of the taxpayers. >> speaking of mitch mclipless, did you see what dubious honor he won yesterday? >> stephanie: yes i'm getting to that! nobody help me! i've got this. >> just trying to produce here. >> stephanie: don't overproduce me! [ laughter ] >> stephanie: mitch mcconnell received the dubious honor of being named america's most unpopular senator! isn't that something. [ applause ] according to nau poll, 55% disapproval rating in kentucky. 37% approval rating. kentucky democratic voters express their disa desire to see ashley judd run in the primaries for 2014. rock on, girl. nay-sayer that you are expressed you didn't think that's going to happen but they just did -- i can't remember what you call it. whatever, you know. preliminary polling. judd trails him 47% to 43%. nothing has even happened yet. >> but she hasn't actually campaigned or made speeches. that's just sheer name recognition. >> stephanie: it is a great start against the minority leader. i think it's awesome. >> well, you know. >> stephanie: i say rock on! i just like the fact he's starting to sound more and more like jim's impression of him. >> i'm not exactly going to run again. it's more of a slow crawl. >> stephanie: exactly. he doesn't even -- he can't even run is the point. how hard would it be for ashley judd to catch him? she's in great shape. >> pull his hair. >> stephanie: right. when we come back, charlie pierce. he had a doctor's appointment yesterday. he had some great stuff at esquire.com. we talk to him next on "the stephanie miller show." (vo) this friday current tv presents a special event. >> nobody knows disasters like comedians. that's why for my upcoming benefit for victims of hurricane sandy, i booked the strongest, smartest comics i could find. my comedian friends and i will raise money to rebuild homes and lives one laugh at a time. so tune in next friday for my all star comedy special. >> together we can get new yorkers back to yelling at strangers and ignoring our friends. >> stephanie miller. >> screw santa! let's have some fun! >> stephanie: it is the "the stephanie miller show." welcome to it. hump days with sexy liberal hal sparks next hour. 34 minutes after the hour. why there's only one man who understands and that's -- >> he's a crown. that -- >> pierce. >> charlie pierce, political columnist for esquire.com. ♪ why is everybody always laughing with me ♪ >> stephanie: good morning charlie pierce. >> it is wednesday not tuesday but it is wednesday with tuesday in its heart. >> stephanie: are you feeling better? >> i have a medical condition which requires them to take a pint of blood out of me once a month so we did that yesterday. so in the ultimate act of post-feminist revenge, i have to bleed once a month. >> see what you did there. [ ♪ circus ♪ ] >> stephanie: okay. you're a pint low. >> i am a pint low but what i lost in blood i made up in snarks. they had the snark tube in the other arm. >> stephanie: fabulous work at the esquire.com nonetheless. i loved your piece because it was so, you know, personal and obviously -- you know, nobody debunks the talking points on tv better. the actual cost of washington's clever debt deal, you know, when people throw out these ideas right. >> raising the medicare rates are. as though no people get sick. >> stephanie: you know, we have callers all the time. remember chris yesterday we had this woman who called -- her husband is a brick layer in chicago. >> he's laying bricks? >> stephanie: you think that's going to be easy to do until you're 67? they throw the ideas out like there's no human cost. >> the one that gets me is like none of them have ever dealt with an insurance company. >> yeah. >> none of these people have ever dealt with a health insurance company. do you know what they're going to be paying? >> stephanie: exactly. it is going to end up costing us more. you actually talk about ezra klein and jonathan who we normally love. >> i think ezra got lumped in there because he mentioned the possibility. >> stephanie: raising the medicare. you said only gently point out almost every part of the primary rationale for doing what they suggest that any deal -- sacrifice on entitlements is required so john boehner is not cannibalized by his caucus is pure beltway group think. it renders insignificant the human cost out in the country of the policy proposed to solve what is essentially a conundrum devised by unaccountable elites. you talk about alzheimer's disease. go ahead. >> no, no. because my father and all four of his siblings had it. the emotional and literal cost of the disease is extraordinary. it is $150,000 for every alzheimer's patient from diagnosis to death. we're coming into a boom because of the baby boomers. >> stephanie: there's 5.4 million people in the disease right now. that's taking a look at one disease and the impact on one group of people. what a horrible idea this is, right? >> yeah. i don't understand doing it just so you can maybe get enough rip can votes to push the top marginal rate to 37. that just -- that's an obscenity to me. i don't know how -- i think you saw this, too in the politico piece yesterday where they went around to a bunch of ceos and to their everlasting shock found out that most of the prescriptions of ceos and the politicians in washington have for the economy is -- are those which ensure that they stay rich. >> stephanie: exactly. but i love how you put it. all of these people, talking about people affected by alzheimer's and their family, all of these people represent a considerable amount of pain that is not being figured into the shrewd political calculations you get on the sunday shows. you bring up a lot of questions. make the deal. what do they do? shop for private insurance for another two years? does that sound remotely practical to anybody who is not a, a member of congress or b a well remune nated pundits who can afford a cadillac plan of their own. this is a great rock rolling down the hill and there's no private sector solution to it. raising the medicare eligibility age will hasten their deaths and bankrupt their families. people will not appreciate how clever you all are. >> stephanie: that's such a -- a beautiful piece charlie. people throw around the talking points to seem smart and they don't talk about the human costs like that. >> i think the whole debate is operating in a dangerous -- from actual people. it is being conducted in secret which i don't really have a problem with because i do think it is better if you keep the media noise out of it. but the parameters of the discussion do not take into effect the people of the country in any significant way. that i can see. it is all about getting the deal done somehow. >> stephanie: right. you know, john yarmuth was just on with us. what his best guess is they're going to pass the middle class tax cuts. what do you think? >> you meefn just do that and get on with the other -- this is the tom cole plan, right? >> stephanie: i guess so. get those passed. >> get those passed then deal with everything else after the first of the year. >> that's the path of least resistance to me. the idea that we're having a debate over this is completely bizarre. but if you expect -- if you accept parameters of the debate on its face, that's the path of least resistance. that's popular and it gets it out of the way. then you can have an argument over the other stuff. just the idea that that we're arguing it, at this state of our evolution as a political commonwealth that the richest 1% should pay 39% instead of 35% of their income, as i said before, i'm for rolling back the reagan tax cuts. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: chew on that for a minute. let's talk about michigan for a minute because -- >> michissippi. this is a unaccountable power producing unaccountable politics. there's no recourse for the people affected most by this particular -- now, do i think that rick snyder has made himself a one-term governor, yes but the damage is already done. >> stephanie: somebody said yesterday, if this is the right thing, why are you doing it in the dark, with no committee hearings? >> why is he doing it in a lame duck session when the answer is of course you don't have the votes when the new legislature comes together. >> stephanie: we were just saying on its face, seems to be a lot of political payback going on. >> this is the last gasp of an old order. i read something about ten minutes ago which said that the republicans seem to be content to litigate the 2012 election forever. >> stephanie: right. >> they're doubling down on voter suppression. they're doubling down -- guy in florida the other day saying -- as much as admitting the voter i.d. laws are voter suppression on the part of republicans. you've got this thing in michigan. it is like they've got this last chance to get everything they want and they're really pushing everything advantage they have. >> stephanie: exactly. charlie, late talk supreme court before you go. because we haven't had a chance to talk big stuff going on. scalia remains a complete disgrace to me. >> i wrote this about six months ago. i believe it is true. i don't think he cares anymore. >> stephanie: i read that piece. it was great. >> i don't think he gives a damn. he's going to say whatever he wants and do whatever he wants and retire on his own schedule. everything else can go to hell. he really doesn't care about the day job anymore. >> stephanie: does he really think that's appropriate -- that's the kind of language for a supreme court justice to use to compare homosexuality to murder? >> if you're a supreme court justice who considers yourself a touring intellect dealing with a bunch of human insects who waste your time, that's exactly the kind of language you use. that's what his attitude has been for the last ten years on the bench at least. >> stephanie: he said it is not necessary but i think it is effective. >> with -- one of the heroes of -- the former congressman ignatius donnelly who was the original atlantis theorist who wrote i believe i'm right or if not right at least plausible. that's what scalia is. i think i'm right but at the very least i'm getting your attention, aren't i? >> stephanie: again that's why -- >> supreme court justice. >> stephanie: he strikes me as a fox news host, not a supreme court justice. >> he lost me completely. it prompted my thought maybe he doesn't care about the day job anymore, when he used the broccoli argument during the oral argument about the healthcare law. i can make people buy broccoli, can't i? that's right off the barn floor of fox news. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: exactly. before you go, your thoughts on the more important of the issue day of the should this woman get the ikea monkey back? >> i think so. >> what happened? >> stephanie: ikea monkey. there was a little tiny monkey in a shearling coat found at ikea in. in canada. >> an actual monkey? >> stephanie: right. >> in a coat. >> in a shearling coat. it was very well -- >> stephanie: it is his favorite. >> was it like scarfing the meatball counter or what? that's my favorite thing about ikea. >> the own her left the monkey in the car while -- >> stephanie: as you do. >> when they went in. >> the monkey escaped out of the car. it was lonely. >> because monkeys are smarter than their owners. >> you could see him peering through the window into the ikea looking for his owner. >> they called the cops or what? >> stephanie: it was taken into -- they took it away from her. it is in an animal sanctuary. >> it is in protective custody. >> because apparently it is illegal to keep a wild animal like that at home. >> it is certainly illegal to dress them that well. >> stephanie: the monkey is named darwin. >> i would give the monkey back to the woman but i would also make the monkey the woman's guardian. smartest member of the whole thing. that would be my solution. >> stephanie: all right. you're so unscalia-like, you're a much fairer and wiser man. charlie pierce, love you. see you next week, honey. >> stephanie: my animal lover horror, we were reading this yesterday. she says the monkey which she named darwin -- she had initially tried to return it to the breeder who supplied it but changed her mind after hearing its cries. darwin stays near her at all times including while she sleeps. i want a tiny monkey. >> she probably shouldn't have taken it and left it in the car. especially if it's illegal to keep a monkey. especially if it's illegal to keep a monkey like that in that jurisdiction. >> stephanie: well not one that well-dressed as charlie said. i think we need to play baby monkey in honor of darwin going back to his owner. >> right now or after the break? >> after the break. >> welcome to the party barn. may we take your order? it's "the stephanie miller show." >> wow! i've never seen anything like this. >> when disaster strikes sometimes the only way out is to look within. current tv digs deep into the extraordinary tales of heroism determination and escape. "trapped" experience the drama. back to back to back. >> hold on mates! >> catch the "trapped" mini-marathon saturday starting at 1 eastern. on current tv. then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...allstate safe driving bonus check? what is that? so weird, right? my agent, tom, said... [ voice of dennis ] ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident-free... ...but i'm a woman. maybe it's a misprint. does it look like a misprint? ok. what i was trying... [ voice of dennis ] silence. ♪ ♪ ask an allstate agent about the safe driving bonus check. are you in good hands? [ male announcer ] red lobster's crabfest ends soon. hurry in and try five succulent entrees like our tender snow crab paired with savory garlic shrimp. just $12.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99. salads, sandwiches, and more. from silver screens... to flat screens... twizzlerize your entertainment everyday with twizzlers the twist you can't resist. >> she gets the comedians laughing... >> that's hilarious! >> ...and the thinkers thinking. >> okay, so there's wiggle-room in the ten commandments is what you're telling me. >> she's joy behar. ... and current will let me say anything. >> only on current tv. >> oh, my god! look at her butt! it is so big. >> stephanie miller. >> she looks like a total prostitute. ♪ i like big butts and i cannot lie ♪ >> sorry. >> stephanie: it is "the stephanie miller show." this hour brought to you by go to meeting with hd faces, the powerfully simple way to meet and collaborate with your team online. now you can present from your ipad. try it free for 30 days. click on the try it free button and type in the promo code, stephanie. in honor of ikea monkey. in honor of his mom getting him back because his mom misses him! okay. ♪ baby monkey ♪ ♪ baby monkey ♪ ♪ riding on a big baby monkey ♪ ♪ baby monkey ♪ ♪ baby monkey ♪ ♪ you don't know what is right ♪ ♪ you've got to keep on keeping on ♪ ♪ get on the pig and ride ♪ ♪ baby monkey ♪ >> stephanie: monkey needs his mommy. okay. >> free baby monkey. >> stephanie: exactly. at ca, at ca. >> monkeys can be dangerous. >> stephanie: not that one. he's a tiny monkey with a shearling coat. what's he going to do? [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] >> ask the people who live on planet of the apes what they can do. >> stephanie: damn, dirty apes. >> damn you all to hell. >> stephanie: chance of angry protestors filled the capitol. michigan gave final approval to the right-to-work legislation. bob king, united autoworkers president yesterday. >> i think that unions -- i think things like this are waking the sleeping giant. working families are tired of losing. they want a fair share of the prosperity of this state and this country and i think that's going to help build the union movement. >> stephanie: yeah. i love the republican house speaker. this is about freedom. fairness and equality. these are basic american rights, rights that should unite us. that's why we did this behind closed doors with no referendum because we knew it would unite us. >> freedom for ceos. >> stephanie: michigan's future has never been brighter because workers are free. >> free to live on the streets. >> stephanie: yes. >> in winter. >> stephanie: ah yes. senator carl levin of michigan. >> he has a responsibility as governor of avoiding this kind of a cliff. it is not -- it's not good enough we told him -- for him to say that he would like to get this behind us. >> stephanie: he went on to say -- the senator for millions of michigan workers this is no ordinary debate. it is an assault to have their bagger aging assault their pay and to have all benefit from such negotiations share in some way in the cost of obtaining them. that's exactly what it is. it is to weaken unions. they keep talking about the 47% of us, the moochers. this is letting people freeload by withholding -- you know, they don't have to pay and they get the same benefits. how is that not -- being a taker! >> that is a taker. >> stephanie: okay. carol in michigan. you're on "the stephanie miller show." hi carol. >> caller: hi. i'm doing fine. i love your show. you guys are truly inspirational. i'm so glad you're on. >> stephanie: thank you. >> caller: yeah, hey, i have a couple of points to make. earlier, there was a comment made by a right wing guy who said that car companies didn't want to come to michigan because of the high union wages. well there's been a two-tier wage system in place for about five or six years where the new employees actually make half of what the older employees have. so there's like a -- two contracts within one contract. and -- >> stephanie: by the way isn't another -- foreign car company is coming to michigan, aren't they, to open a plant? i just read. >> caller: i don't know much about that. i really don't. >> stephanie: go ahead. >> caller: and then i have another point. my brother -- i'm a third generation union worker. i just retired. and my brother who still works for the same shop i worked for they all took a bus down to lansing yesterday and he took his 14-year-old son with him who really wanted to go. i think it is so important that the younger people be educated and it really opened his eyes to see what the real world was like and he was going to come back and report it to his history class today in high school. >> stephanie: wow. >> caller: i just think it is so great. i think we need more of that. we need more education out there as to how good unions are. >> stephanie: you have a -- obviously a proud history in michigan and now you know what else, you have, a $100 gift code! flowers gift code. >> you're the best call of the day, carol. >> stephanie: and you're union and you're from michigan. hang on. >> wow! >> travis will get your info. >> stephanie: for the perfect holiday gift, go to proflowers.com, enter the promo code stephanie. there you go. okay. tony in north carolina. hey, tony, welcome. >> how you doing stephanie? >> stephanie: good, go ahead. >> caller: this president needs to start acting like ronald reagan -- i know who ronald reagan is supposed to be but who is tip o'neil supposed to be? definitely not the speaker and this speaker is scared of fox news. he's scared of the tea party. he's scared of grover norquist. they'll be scare of the same thing. this speaker cannot stand up to leadership outside of washington or to grover norquist for the tea party he's weak in the leadership behind him having the same problem he has. >> stephanie: he's a weak, orange, little man. all right. speaking of -- wow -- [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] speaking of sour grapes. wow, wow wow. a lot of post-election backlash. former texas g.o.p. head, marx ics obama fried his brains on drugs. >> marxist right. >> stephanie: kathy adams please and thank you she gave a presentation before a conservative meeting in texas. she said who is a marxist in our white house? of course it is barack hussein obama and i don't know why we're not calling him what he is. >> does she know the definition of marxism? >> stephanie: it is as if when the wall fell, communism died. it didn't. today it is red on the outside and barack obama is implementing his green agenda which is marxism. >> ah, right. >> stephanie: bugga lug about -- bug gabug ga. >> i don't know how to work a shoe. >> stephanie: how do buttons go again? >> don't know how to work a shoe. >> stephanie: how do you work a shoe? they're all so different. she was offend by his narcissistic behavior at the presidential debate so much so she wanted to go up and smack his face. >> i'm sure the secret service would have loved that. >> stephanie: she decried the california marijuana legalization initiative as part of obama's anti-american plans. >> he's against it. >> he's a moron. >> stephanie: okay. she said i'm telling you barack hussein obama has to have a teleprompter because he fried his brain on drugs. >> how does that explain mitt romney's need for a teleprompter, george bush's need for a teleprompter. >> god, you smell like a dairy. >> does she not think? >> stephanie: i don't know. >> no. evidently not. >> marxist! >> stephanie: all right. john in michigan, you're on the -- how do you work a shoe, john? john in michigan. >> caller: hi, steph. yeah, i get a couple things for president obama in boulder. why don't we go back because ronald reagan is everybody's freakin' hero. >> stephanie: i thought you missed that and i caught it. still clinging to my fcc license. >> barely. okay. >> stephanie: don't scare an old woman like that. back with sexy [ ♪ theme ♪ ] >> stephanie: hello hour number three. jacki schechner we're having a little girl's night out. i was talking to you yesterday. you were saying i don't leave my house. because -- well, i don't leave my house and i don't like to drive. i found a solution. dog drives man in new zealand. they're training dogs to drive a car. i could get a little chauffeur's cap for max or fred. >> one problem. you don't live in new zealand. >> her dogs are big enough, they probably could drive a car. >> stephanie: they won't drive drunk or text. how bad could it be? >> they might be easily distracted. squirrel! >> stephanie: it's an idea. jacki schechner in the current news center. >> good morning. republican house leaders held a press conference this morning where speaker john boehner described his latest phone call with the president as deliberate. explaining they spoke openly and honestly about the differences between their two plans to avoid the fiscal cliff. boehner says while he considers himself a positive guy he is not convinced an agreement is imminent. >> i was born with a glass half full. i remain the most optimistic person in this town. but we've got some serious differences. >> that's an understatement. the congressional campaign committee is launching a new set of radio and tv ads going after 21 tea party republicans in the house standing in the way of extending the middle class tax cuts. here is an example of the dramatic tv spot after california congressman gary miller. you that holiday season, if you make only one phone call, send only one e-mail, tell congressman gary miller don't drive us off the cliff! >> not bad. the president has used the phrase holding the middle class hostage when he talks about republicans who want to protect the rich at the expense of everyone else so the ads direct people to the web site g.o.p. hostage takers.com. where they aim to collect a half a million signatures in support of a house vote on the senate tax cut bill that's already passed. for those arguing we need lower corporate tax rates to spur economic growth, the nation online has put together five case studies that name a ceo the company, its tax rate the past two years which is very low in all of these instances and then how many people have been let go of that company since 2007. it illustrates the point that in many cases greed only begets more greed. we're back after the break. stay with us. on to me now? you know the the kikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikiki on to me now? you know the the kind of guys that do reverse mortgage commercials? those type. those types are coming on to me all the time now. she get's the comedians laughing... that hilarious. and the thinkers thinking. joy okay so. there's wiggle room in the ten commandments is what you're telling me? >>she's joy behar. joy and the best part is that current will let me say anything. what the hell were they thinking? > only on current tv. brought to you by geico 15 minutes can save you 15% or more on car insurance. visit geico dot com for a free rate quote. did you get chips for the party? nope. cheese plate? cheese plate...nope. i made something better. ♪ ♪ you used the oven? boom ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] pillsbury crescents. let the making begin. 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[ male announcer ] head & shoulders deep clean for men. ♪ ♪ >> announcer: ladies and gentlemen, it's "the stephanie miller show." ♪ i'm walkin' on sunshine ♪ ♪ i'm walkin' on sunshine ♪ ♪ and it's time to feel good ♪ ♪ hey, all right now ♪ ♪ it's time to feel good ♪ >> stephanie: oh no, my christmas beaver is beside itself because it's wednesday and -- >> stephi. >> what's that heavy breathing i hear? why, could it be? ♪ the humpty dance do the hump ♪ >> hump days with hal sparks. >> yes yes! >> that's bucky the christmas beaver. >> it is none of my business, really. i couldn't wait to get my hands on it. >> stephanie: indeed. all right. >> i'll be keeping it down by me the entire show. i claim the beaver as my own. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: he claims every beaver as his own. kids! sexy liberal inauguration weekend. it is -- just booked. i just told hal the second huge surprise guest on the panel. now we're excited. >> four years ago, we witnessed the first inauguration of president barack obama. ♪ like a virgin ♪ >> in november, america decide one term wasn't enough. ♪ do that to me one more time ♪ >> this time around, stephanie miller and her team of two-term comics are coming to make this a party d.c. will never forget! on january 19th, just two days before obama's second inauguration the sexy liberal comedy tour starring hal sparks, john fuglesang aisha tyler and the goddess of liberals, stephanie miller will perform live at the warner theatre in washington, d.c. tickets are available at ticketmaster.com. and if you want to skip the fees, stop by the warner theatre box office at 513 13th street northwest. the tea baggers lost in november. so stephanie is going to do her thing before the inaugural ball. >> that means two things. >> that's the stephanie miller sexy liberal comedy tour live in d.c. inauguration weekend. for more information, go to sexyliberal.com. all right. thank you. [ applause ] >> stephanie: hal sparks. >> first of all, i don't know where to start. let's go right off the bat that scalia is either -- has suffered some sort of forceable lobotomy at the hands of roger ailes or is frankly a sociopath. >> stephanie: yeah. >> because i don't care morally -- you know, in the abstract what you care about other people, if he's anti-gay, that's his business. i think he's -- >> stephanie: what does that have to do with the law? what you think about things? >> we are a country of laws, not morals ultimately because some people may think murder is a moral act. do you have the right to take another life because it is in your -- if you have the ability to do it, that morally perhaps that encompasses is your vile of the fittest for you. but we don't do that. we have a system of laws in this country. he is the actual final drawing line on that part. and i don't care how you morally feel about murder. the laws are set up to protect us from people who have slipshod views of those morals. when you're murdered, all your rights are taken away. when two gay people get together, they have more rights. [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] >> stephanie: in case you just tuned in so you know what hal is talking about. judge scalia -- equated lgbt with murder. he was asked by an openly gay princeton freshman, duncan hosey is his name. about his comments. he stood by his logic as reduction to the absurd. he said it is a form of argument that i thought you would have known which is called the reduction to the absurd. if we cannot have moral feelings against homosexuality, can we have it against murder? can we have it against other things? he was not equating sodomy with murder but drawing a parallel between the bans on both. he said i'm surprised -- >> there is no parallel. there is absolutely no parallel. i was having this discussion with a friend on mine on facebook. there is no relationship between homosexual relationships and murder. >> stephanie: it is not effective logically. >> if you think it is, there's something tweaked about you. that's a sociopathic reflex because you think that -- someone's moral argument about behavior is on par with the elimination of someone's life. which is actually protected in the constitution. well the constitution does not cover man-woman marriage or make very distinct statements about homosexuality in any stretch of the image -- imagination. you are protected in that regard. >> the laws are the same as the holocaust. [ scooby-doo's "huh?" ] >> that's the same parallel that can be drawn. >> if you can write a ticket for speeding in a kid zone. you can write a ticket for the holocaust and call it a day. that man is a nut job! >> stephanie: i think that -- i love this headline because i think it is proof of how out-of-step he is. [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] g.o.p. mute. have you heard anything from top republican? they know generationally -- >> saying what they think for them. >> stephanie: house republican leaders had a uniform response to the supreme court's decision to take up gay marriage silence. this comes at an exceedingly awkward time for republicans politico writes. many are trying to downplay their party's views on social issues to get a pass back to electoral success. the house of representatives told the supreme court the constitutionality of doma is an issue of great national importance that urgently requires the justice's attention. when the court agreed on friday to hear doma, they had nothing to say. first of all these are the fiscal conservatives that are asking us to cut medicare and social security. you know how much taxpayer money they've spent defending doma? >> exactly. that's because in their world and this is kind of where the scalia argument really just -- is actually reduction to the absurd in so far as how they make a case. he's going off the deep end making this big comparison where they're softly making this comparison everywhere else. it is like a pyramid scheme of connation where they he says they're on home phobia and murder is on the same arc. further down, i believe one man and one woman is the best for society. ultimately, they feel the same thing. he's the trunk of the tree. they all believe that. >> we believe in the sanctity of murder. >> stephanie: middle of the fiscal cliff debate and spending cuts. they hired government expense a lawyer many consider the finest supreme court hit gator of the moment. they're not just going through the moments as paul clement said. so far a total of two million for legal proceedings. there is going to have to be more as they go forward with this. >> right. >> stephanie: to me, clearly unconstitutional. so we're spending money -- they're spending money to defend this because nobody wants to defend it anymore. >> that's the goofy part. and they're having a hard time. when you've got george will coming out saying it is time to put this behind us, this is old people who are against this for the most part, the issue they have is that they're like okay, we need to reshape our image. we need to reshape our message. but the core of what they believe isn't shifting at all. immigration policies -- are racism. >> stephanie: their argument about this. and its oogieness. legal definition of it is. >> i want a law passed so i don't have to feel oogie when i see a gay couple walking hand in hand. i want the cops to show up. >> stephanie: they want to legislate heeby jeebieness. >> democrats are nor nanny government. when these guys are like the sean hannity nook, nook crowd. >> stephanie: he does it every week now. >> i don't want to see two gay people. i have to explain it to my friends. nook nook. that's really what it is. it is so socially complicated r you that you d't wantt to have tovealoal aut itt t anybody bo beuse it willil bringut y yr bigot and you're embarrassed by that so you don't want to be confronted with it, pretend it doesn't exist. >> stephanie: fred in minnesota, you're on with hal. hello, fred. >> caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. >> stephanie: thank you for calling. >> caller: i wanted to get something started. how about a recall for that wuss of a governor in michigan. >> you know, that's a great idea but i don't think it is going to happen. ultimately, he's up -- >> stephanie: 2014. >> he's not going to make it. >> stephanie: i hope that's what happens with walker. the polling showed, people just didn't believe in a recall at that point but boy i hope the next time he faces people at the ballot box same thing happens. >> stephanie: let's go to david in seattle. you're on with hal. >> caller: hi, steph. they're taking away our stations. the tweaky heads are giving me a headache with this union talk. it is like a big wave of propaganda. i don't understand any of it. you don't have a right to collective bargain but yet somehow scalia can make the other arguments? the main thing i was talking about, i don't hear obama talking about the $750 subsidies for oil companies when they start bringing up entitlements, they want to go after medicaid and everything right away. nobody is talking about the biggest leverage of money. >> that was actually brought up this morning in a couple of press conferences directly about that. and pelosi has hinted at that as well. why is that not on the table. that is a -- that is a corporate entitlement. p.s., did you hear we got paid back for the final bailout thing and the fed made a profit on that as well? >> stephanie: yeah. we were saying -- we were talk beefing the -- with charlie pierce about how people throw around the ideas like there's no human cost. raise the medicare age to 67. somebody called from your hometown from chicago to say my husband lays brick in chicago. he's not going to be able to do it much longer until he's 60 let alone -- >> there is an easy solution for this. there is an upper middle -- middle class and upper middle class group of people, a large swath of people who do what is soft retirement. they retire effect live i from their company or own entity at 65 and they continue to consult for the next seven years. something like that. there can be a faisal -- raising the medicaid for that group of people. if you have some sort of gainful employment over a certain amount, let's say it is $150,000 a year or whatever that you're continuing to bring in an income that's three times what the average american family is making, then you continue to pay into medicare and you stop -- social programs and you don't draw out. you don't draw out until effectively you're out of the work force in that level. that's -- they bought out my mom -- my mom is registered nurse. she worked for the state. she bought out her retirement so she could retire two years early. they do that all the time to get new people into the work force. that's fine. if you're going to do that then the inverse can be true for people who -- they're legally retired from whatever their company was but they're still working for the next seven years at a high rate of gain. >> stephanie: yeah. you know who -- the newman of our show now is lloyd blankfein the ceo of goldman sachs. [ ♪ dramatic ♪ ] >> stephanie: we can't afford the entitlements. >> we? it is goldman sachs. >> stephanie: because for him to sit in his freakin' cozy office until he's 67 is different than the guy -- laying bricks. enjoying his $32 million hamptons home. [ ♪ dramatic ♪ ] >> when he nearly capsizes the company again either -- >> stephanie: need the bailout for his bonus. 18 minutes after the hour. kids, you know what? what are they going to think of next at go to meeting? those kids. >> they're going to think of hd faces? >> stephanie: they're like santa's elves. >> stephanie: no, go to webinar by citrix. same company that brought us go to meeting. simplest way to reach and engage a large audience right from your desk. >> do you? >> i would. >> stephanie: you can conduct online events of up to 1,000 attendees. you can hold as many a month as you would like for as long as you need. interactive features like q&a. you can launch surveys so people will not only hear your presentation, they'll get involved. plus go to webinar simple to set up. easy for the audience to use. no i. t. support needed. i wanted you to see how it can help your small business communicate better right from your computer at home! don't wait! start your free 30-day trial. visit go to webinar.com and try it free. 18 minutes after the hour. back with more hump days with hal sparks on "the stephanie miller show." >> i got her number off the men's room stall. 1-800-steph-12. ♪ ♪ ♪ we were skipping stones ♪ ♪ and letting go ♪ ♪ over the river and down the road ♪ [ female announcer ] at nature valley we know nature comes together in amazing ways. that's why we bring together natural ingredients, like dark chocolate with toasted oats, or sweet golden honey. perfect combinations of nature's delicious ingredients from nature valley. ♪ ♪ ♪ i was thinking that i hope this never ends ♪ [ female announcer ] nature valley granola bars nature at its most delicious. 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(vo) followed by "talking liberally with stephanie miller" >> this is big for me. only on current tv. ♪ i love ♪ >> stephanie miller. ♪ put another dime in the jukebox, baby. ♪ i love ♪ >> stephanie miller ♪ come and take your time and dance with me ♪ >> stephanie: this is "the stephanie miller show." welcome to it. hump days with sexy liberal hal sparks. >> so sad in the middle of that -- recording a song and someone steps on her foot. you're trying to record a song -- wow! >> stephanie: can they do a retake? jenny in california. you're on with hal. hi jenny. jefny? -- >> caller: this is judy. >> stephanie: t-bone is drunk. >> caller: i was thinking who in the heck is jenny. it is offsubject but i'm curious about the little bubble the republicans live in now. they've created this little world of lies and the bush administration has created the very people they have always said do not vote. they've always declared that the working poor don't vote. we don't have to worry about them. they don't vote. they don't vote. they show gays parading. we don't have to worry about them. >> stephanie: jenny -- judy, no. i mean you know, i think -- i don't know if you saw the republican official saying that's what we do. we have to do whatever we can to win. voter i.d., long lines whatever it takes. it is like what? >> eric holder really says that voter registration should be automatic this weekend. it should. "meet the press," it is their anniversary this weekend. they're playing a bunch of clips. one of them is martin luther king jr. talking about how we should -- there should be uniform voting rights across the country. the problem is the states' rights crowd using that to manipulate the electorate. the same version of gerrymandering so they protect their vote in these red states by making sure they can monkey with the voting system every time it comes around. so i think the solution is all federal elections should be dealt with by the federal government and if you want to create hanging chats for your local school official, that's your business. after awhile, it will be cheaper to do it uniform with what the federal system. but i think if you're voting for senator and congressperson and president of the united states, then those three things affect every other state. so through equal protection or through the commerce clause, there is a bunch of different ways you can go. all federal level voting should be done in a uniform standard. that's easy to do. >> stephanie: hal sparks should be in charge of all things ever, don't you think? >> i think so. >> the about the could do that with an executive order. it is easily constitutional. >> stephanie: cindy in michigan. hi cindy. >> caller: hi, steph mooks. a few points from this place here that's going backwards now. you know, they had a constitutional amendment to protect collective bargaining. this was in november. and it got voted down. mostly because people didn't want to change the constitution. and the koch brothers had asked that -- the unions weren't mentioned. a lot of people voted it down then the republicans said we have a mandate. so the first thing they did very silently last week before all of this happened was they tightened up the recall legislation. they made it much harder to do a recall. >> stephanie: of course they did. they know exactly what they're doing here. >> the other thing that happened was the timing on this is essential because you know, there would be more democrats that could have slowed this down if it was next year. and they would have gotten a lot of information out because this affects all workers because now we're at an at-will state where you can be fired because they don't like your looks or whatever but it also hides racism ageism, sexism because you don't have to document why you've done what you've done. >> stephanie: right. >> caller: and then there's one other thing about the timing. because we've got trillions of dollars in profits sitting on the sidelines that's going to end up getting in the economy probably next year. so if they had waited too much longer, it would have been too late for the legislation for the at--will state to get in there. it is not going to take effect until april. but it would have been at the end of the year. then all of this profit comes in jobs start getting created. they can't take credit for it. they want to make it so it looks like hey look, we did that. >> the job creators. >> stephanie: this, to me, seems like koch brothers sore loserdom. did you see chris matthews yelling at that guy. he was trying to get him to say koch brothers. americans for prosperity. >> who pays -- who's paying you to say that right now? and it is. these two guys. >> americans from prosperity. >> i can guess what the last name is. >> stephanie: chris matthews is like a dog with a rawhide. [ applause ] who pays you? >> who signs your checks? >> stephanie: okay. all right. john in michigan. oh hi, john, i cut you off because i thought you dropped the f bomb on me. >> caller: i didn't do that though. >> stephanie: you have your 30 seconds back. go. >> caller: okay. fiscal cliff. let's go back to the reagan tax rates. everybody loved reagan. he's their hero. let's go back to his rates. number two save medicare and medicaid. let's put a little doughnut in there. let's go up to $110,000, everybody pays. and then after the $110,000, you go to $250,000, nobody pays but after $250,000, you pay for fica on everything. on your dividends on capital gains, everything. >> stephanie: yep. >> caller: we won't have any problems. as a matter of fact, i can sit back in my retirement chair and relax. >> stephanie: he dropped another f bomb on me, fica. more hump days with hal coming up on "the stephanie miller show." jennifer > i want the people who watch our show to be able to come away armed with facts and the arguments to feel confident in their positions. i want them to have the data and i want them to have the passion. but it's also about telling them that you're put on this planet for something more! i want this show to have an impact beyond just informing. an impact that gets people to take action for themselves. as a human being that's really important. this is not just a spectator sport. rich, chewy caramel rolled up in smooth milk chocolate. don't forget about that payroll meeting. rolo.get your smooth on. also in minis. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, and stop joint damage. because enbrel, etanercept suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections tuberculosis lymphoma, other cancers, and nervous system and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores have had hepatitis b have been treated for heart failure, or if, while on enbrel, you experience persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. [ phil ] get back to the things that matter most. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. >> i can't believe there is a real santa. >> so that year i got a vibrator from santa, that was really from santa? >> stephanie: just what we need, more bushes. did you see that jenna bush is pregnant? we wish her well. she said i'm nervous and so excited to say henry and i are pregnant or i'm pregnant. yeah, we get it. >> stephanie: you're the one. >> it is often times a couple can use the royal we as we're pregnant. that's okay. but in her defense -- >> stephanie: yes? >> there probably are family members who were momentarily confused. if history is -- path to prologue. they went oh my god what? oh! just you. it is the end times. jehovah god. michele bachmann called and congratulated him and then she went over and yelled at marcus. >> the day is at hand. we're in the last days. your jehovah god. >> maybe marcus can carry the next five. >> stephanie: is it me or -- she talks like a toddler. please don't talk to me. >> don't pinch my cheeks. >> who's the lilja hova god with the tummy tum tum? >> peekaboo! >> i see all. i can't play peekaboo. i'm all-knowing too. you can't hide the keys. i know which hand it is in. i created your hands. >> stephanie: can't play peekaboo. >> oh, you're a cutesy. >> stephanie: cranky old john mccain wants to be on the committee to yell questions at susan rice. >> hey i wonder why. maybe it's because he's out of committees because he's termed out of all of the major committees. maybe that's because republicans have limitations on how long you can be on a committee and he's done all of them! >> stephanie: dick durbin was asked if he would be approved. he said he thinks so. some of the criticisms against her have been unwarranted adding she's an extraordinary person. john mccain wants to be able to -- huh? benghazi! >> stephanie: what do you think? everybody is saying is it going to be john kerry or susan rice? what do you think? >> i think susan rice is a great candidate for that. i think actually john kerry is really apparently wanted state but people have talked about him for secretary of defense. i think you could almost have a flak nearly as big with him going for defense as they would susan rice. purple band-aid brigade would be out again. then they would play his tapes from when he was -- i don't know -- vietnam war. >> stephanie: speaking of john mccain he -- he was asked what he would teach stephen colbert if the comedian became the next senator from south carolina. he said how to shut up. >> huh? >> really? does he know how? >> mccain knows how to shut up? those who can't do, teach. >> stephanie: sexy liberal tour comedians rule the world. he's ahead. stephen colbert is ahead. he leads the list of potential candidates to replace jim demint in a new public policy polling. >> one thing i learned about working with john mccain when i worked in arizona, do not get between him and a television camera. >> stephanie: jim and i made that mistake once at the last inauguration. >> you will die! >> stephanie: we were trying to get out of his way. he was storming toward imus or something. >> he and lindsey graham are jockeying to be the biggest gadflies. ron paul was taking a powder to get out of the camera way in the house or whatever so these two guys are the two senators. >> stephanie: he's the senator from the green room. >> nobody wants to see mcconnell or boehner. they're the two that we'll take the spotlight because we look like we're in the process of doing something which for the record they're not! >> stephanie: dean in atlanta. you're on with hal. welcome, dean. >> caller: how are you? >> stephanie: good. go ahead. >> caller: i just want to preface my comment with the observation that i think -- i should practice law. i think justice scalia's pretty much a bully and -- has some issues of his own that need resolution. but i think you're missing the point and i haven't heard anybody really speak about it. either on your show or elsewhere i don't think he's saying that gay marriage is murder. what i think he would argue is that there is a -- that the government has the right to outlaw or make illegal behavior that it considers immoral. >> stephanie: right. >> caller: there's really no dispute. we have a set of codified morality already. the problem with his argument, however -- >> stephanie: he wasn't comparing gay marriage. he was comparing homosexuality itself to murder. >> caller: right. i understand that. that leads to the two problems with his argument. the first problem is that to the extent we're talking about gay marriage, it is just a contract. and anybody who wants to make a distinction between marriage and civil unions is just really missing the boat. >> like nobody's going to get fined or handed a ticket for saying we were married last week. no, you were civilly joined. $50. >> caller: that's exactly the point. the second problem which is a little bit more insidious to his argument is once you start outlawing things like homosexual relations between people, that leads to the point where you can start outlawing heterosexual relations between people. >> sodomy is not an act that's engaged in solely by homosexuals. let's be clear about that. >> stephanie: hello. >> technically, it is any sexual act that doesn't lead to procreation. guilty as charged! [ ding ding ] [ applause ] >> ultimately, that's the truth. once you start saying these two people can't do this consensually as consenting adults, you can start making all kinds of -- >> stephanie: by the way you know who opened the door to -- i think to marriage equality, justice scalia in his dissent. the lawrence case versus texas. he basically said if we vote this way it opens the door to marriage equality which back then seemed like -- [ cuckoo clock chimes ] >> sodomy -- laws against marriage which they're not. they're a behavior aspect. we do not outlaw murder because it is immoaferl. it is not a morality choice. it eliminates the existence of another person. >> it takes away the rights of the other person. >> it denies them every right as a citizen. we don't do that morally. we don't make a moral choice about it. >> stephanie: that's exactly right. that's why ted olson won and boies in prop 8 because they couldn't prove harm to anybody. >> they link it to pedophilia, for example. it eliminates the rights of someone who has -- is without choice in a circumstance. they're a child being acted upon by an adult. so that's not even a moral -- that's a material distinction. so you don't have to argue -- that's why they have no case. so you can't -- his conflation of that -- well, everything is moral decision. my morals are as important as your morals and slipshod and gray area all the way. it's not. you're eliminating the moral rights of a child in that circumstance. >> stephanie: jim in indiana. go ahead jim. this jim. >> caller: love you guys. i grew up in detroit. and i work for the unions. i now live in indiana and i also work at a nonunion car plant and trust me the unions are far better. we were a team when we were a union. even though we knew we were against management, management was against us, we were a team. >> stephanie: jim, i was reading earlier, there's been a lot of research that shows both union and nonunion workers do worse in these right-to-work states quote-unquote. >> that's very true. it is like working in a concentration camp. they lay out the rules. you have no rights. period. they tell you what you can accept. and if you don't -- >> stephanie: was that the hitler reference you were going for, jim? >> caller: i wanted to get jim in there a little bit too. i love him too. also, they have two jobs to do. taxes, fiscal cliff. why do you have to bring in social security and medicare and fix something that's not broke? >> stephanie: social security's case, we keep saying doesn't add a penny to the deficit. >> it is absurd. if you're going to curtail something or act like something is horribly busted, then i would say the military expenditures that go into effect because of the sequestration actually are something that's a crucial. they're going to drop off immediately and the spending on them is overtly far beyond its necessity. >> stephanie: it is more than the military asks for. congress is trying to give them more. >> to do what with? it is not like they're not ahead technologically from -- on every front. >> but we need to be able to blow up the world 150 times not 147. >> stephanie: otherwise we're french and gay. ron in illinois, you're on "the stephanie miller show." hi ron. >> caller: good morning, steph. >> stephanie: good morning. >> caller: i don't understand why john boehner think -- unless he's living -- think he's living in an ogle archy i couldn't understand -- i don't understand why he thinks he's bargaining from a position of power. >> he seems to be under the illusion that they won the election but he personally did. not only does the president not have a mandate but that they somehow do. even though they lost seats in the house. >> stephanie: he says it. we have the -- republican majority got a mandate. no you didn't. a million more people voted for democrats than republicans. >> guess what. >> i believe larry craig had a mandate. [ ding ding ] [ applause ] >> stephanie: 44 minutes after the hour. >> it was simple misspeak. if anybody in this room starts tossing stones -- >> starts costing stones. >> stephanie: cost us scones. don't have the stones to mispronounce stuff on this show. i often put it on the wrong syllable. hi mar. >> caller: okay, well i'm calling for west virginia but i was born and raised in michigan. i lived there almost half of my life. so i lived there during the period of time when the unions were really strong because i'm 70 years old. so you can guess what period of time. >> stephanie: right. >> caller: i want to make this statement here to anybody that's listening to your show. that if you think because you're not in a union or the union doesn't affect you that you don't have a dog in this fight you got a big dog in this fight. you better wake up and realize this because if it wasn't for those labor unions, you wouldn't be making a livable wage out there. >> stephanie: that's right. >> caller: people who are trying to organize -- >> stephanie: the workers can't think they're going to continue to get the same benefits and not have to pay into it because they're going to weaken -- that's what this is all about. you're going to weaken the unions, none of will you get it. >> welcome to the walmart world. that's what they're shooting for. keep everybody below a certain number of hours so medicaid and medicare have to pick up the slack. then your tax dollars are subsidizing a corporation spread across the globe without getting taxes o back for it. it would be up with thing this if he were for it. >> stephanie: back with the remaining moments of hump days with hal sparks on "the stephanie miller show." >> makes me sick in a wonderful wonderful way. >> announcer: it's "the stephanie miller show." >> together we can get new yorkers back to yelling at strangers and ignoring our (vo) this friday current tv presents a special event. >> nobody knows disasters like that's why for my upcoming benefit for victims of hurricane sandy, i booked the strongest, smartest comics i could find. my comedian friends and i will raise money to rebuild homes and lives one laugh at a time. so tune in next friday for my all star comedy special. >> together we can get new yorkers back to yelling at strangers and ignoring our friends. [ piano plays ] troy polamalu's going deeper. ♪ ♪ and so is head & shoulders deep clean. [ male announcer ] with 7 benefits it goes deep to remove grease, gunk and flakes. deep. like me. [ male announcer ] head & shoulders deep clean for men. ♪ ♪ you disgust me. prove it. enough is enough. d-con baits are specially formulated to kill in one feeding. guaranteed. d-con. get out. every day presents another exciting issue. from financial regulation, fraud on wall street. things everyday exploding around the world that leave no shortage for exciting conversations. at the end of the show, you know what has happened, why its happened and more importantly, what's going to happen tomorrow. ♪ come on, ride the train and come and ride it ♪ ♪ come and ride the train and ride it ♪ ♪ we play this game ♪ ♪ we call it -- >> stephanie miller. ♪ come on, ride the train and ride it ♪ >> stephanie: come on, get it, ride it. it is "the stephanie miller show". >> none of my business. that's the essence of liberal politics. hey, man, hands off. as long as you're not arming anybody -- >> stephanie: christmas beaver is in the house filling in for jim again. go to go to meeting. you can present from your ipad. try it free for 30 days. visit gotomeeting.com. use the promo code stephanie. of course hal has a fancy apple charger. he has the mini ipad. he's an apple boy. [ ♪ magic wand ♪ ] >> you are appled up. >> the regular and the mini. that way i can keep track of chat room -- >> stephanie: are we posting a picture of hal -- of hal measuring my christmas beaver with his giant freaky tongue. >> he's got a candy cane. >> stephanie: christmas just came early. [ applause ] >> stephanie: what? what are your latest thoughts on the fiscal cliff clavin as we call it? >> well, i think we have a lot to learn from what i would call the fiscal spliff from washington state. legalization of marijuana adds to the state's coffers or costs the federal government an equal amount of money to police it from a distance, that's going to be the curious one. so far as the fiscal cliff the dumbest thing -- the republicans are in a situation where you know they're giving two pages of -- we want this. remember, we just -- they're torn out like perforated from the paul ryan plan. they bring them in. okay, tomorrow we'll come back with more. these are the same pages only they have -- is that bourbon on them? >> stephanie: bourbon and cheeto stains on them. >> the truth is -- i think charlie pierce touched on it before. the dumb thing is that they don't immediately go for the middle class tax cuts and let those go through. but they can't give any ground and that, i think proves that boehner can't deliver the votes necessary to get anything through. >> stephanie: right. >> this thing is going to die on the vine. i predict technical going over of the fiscal cliff. i think the democrats benefit from putting a bill to the floor that's basically -- that will be the obama tax cut. they're going to have to vote against it. the first vote of this new congress, they're going to have to vote against a middle class tax cut. no win for these guys if they don't pass it in the next week. they can't word it between now and then. crafting a bill actually takes some time and some process. >> stephanie: yep. megan in akron ohio. hi welcome. >> caller: hi. i just have a question for you. about the viability of a challenge to this in michigan. what can they do? >> stephanie: megan, i was doing that story earlier that the unions are saying -- this fight is not over. there may be a way you know, to be able to -- i don't know the technical term for it. basically to be able to put it back -- >> negative ballot initiative. some other options. >> stephanie: if they get enough signatures -- >> the history is not on their side. every time they try to do that, it has been -- >> stephanie: look at sb5 in ohio. take heart from that. i want to ask you quickly -- [ ♪ "world news tonight" ♪ ] we talked about this earlier. hal sparks, high profile famous person as well. kevin class the voice of elmo has been accused by a fourth accuser who claimed he had a sexual relationship with him when he was younger. when he paid off the first guy now -- you know, this guy said this happened in 1995. he realized how emotionally damaged he is. i just -- >> that smacks of opportunism. >> that's always the difficult part of it. you know, unfortunately i think we have -- you know, if you want to deal with the social aspect of it, we have a shame reflex toward people who have been molested or who have been sexually assaulted where coming forward has been made so difficult for them or that there's some level of weakness associated with it that at the time that -- it does take years. >> stephanie: i don't know what the truth is. where there's smoke there's fire or if you settle with somebody, this opens the door if you're famous to have people go oh! >> the problem was there was lots of evidence shuffling them around. i think -- you know, the issue becomes -- you know, a lot of people -- he stepped away. he is no longer the voice. that was a business decision because i think he owns some element of -- he created the character. >> yeah, he did. >> somebody else will voice it and continue it on that will not be associated with this. believe me, it's kind of one of those things. you find an anti-gay republican politician more than likely, you find out some gay shenanigans going on a lot of times. then you find unfortunately a lot of -- kids performers, there is this word linkage in some cases where it is a perceptive statistic of people who like younger people sexually. it is unfortunate. >> stephanie: tyrone in gary, indiana, on right to work. hey, tyrone. >> caller: hi, miss miller. i love you guys. you guys are crazy but i love you. >> stephanie: true on both counts. >> not scalia crazy but hey that's crazy. >> caller: the right-to-work law is like the -- woody horton case where they say one thing to create a smoke screen and then pull a fast one on you and by the time you figure out what's going on, it's over. that's what happened in michigan. >> sure. >> caller: mr. demint, which i call deminted jim will be going from the senate to the think tanks to think of how to come up with these other lies. >> stephanie: some of some more -- think of some more awful ideas. >> real good until it is too late. >> caller: number three, i couldn't vote this time because i was born in cook county. for 30 years my birth certificate said tyrone k. baker until 9-11 when i went down to get my birth certificate changed because i had to get the new seal it said baker recently when i moved to indiana, here you have to have a bit certificate to get a driver's license. i went to the dmv here and they told me how to go get it. it says nothing. so as i talk to you die exist. >> stephanie: i was just going to say you've been erased by sandra bullock. >> in truth that is a big part of the mechanic of what they're doing. i don't want to be too black helicopter tinfoil hat about this but there is -- you know, there is -- there has been a movement that is 40, 50 years old. that is -- is a reflex blowback essentially from the civil rights movement. where there are people who are dug into the government very deeply and really believe that women shouldn't vote, that minorities shouldn't be voting. this should be an electoral college thing based on what the founding fathers wanted as only land-owning white men should be able to vote. they really believe that. >> stephanie: absolutely. hal sparks, anything else to plug besides sexy liberal washington, d.c.? >> i will be back next weekend. it starts back again. i was on sirius for six weeks in our special run election coverage stuff. but the show will begin again. we'll have our regular chat and all of that kind of stuff this saturday. >> stephanie: tickets going fast for sexy liberal d.c. we'll see you tomorrow on "the stephanie miller s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s
. good morning. i am your host, brenda wade. our first superstar has written and produced hits for everyone from mariah carey to whitney houston. he was awarded grammy's for producer of the year in 1987 for the album of the year, movie soundtrack, the bodyguard. and in 1993 the r & b song of the year and in 1985 for the song freeway of love. he is one of the top 10 producers with the very most number 1 hits by billboard magazine. take a look at one of his works sung by mariah carey. . >> wow! that is hot, hot, hot! and tonight he will be awarded with a spirit awardality the scottish center here oakland, california. here is the amazing narda michael walden himself, and our in the spirit awards host janice edwards. hello and welcome back. what an honor to have you two here. >> we are glad to be here. >> it is great to have you back on home base. >> you are so kind. it is so wonderful to be here. i love being here on black renaissance and brenda, you do a wonderful job. congratulations on all you do and for bringing so much to our community. >> thank you. and you brought mr. walden who is receiving a "in the spirit award." what is it? >> it celebrates the best of our community, people who have made contributions worldwide because they believe in giving back, they are very talented. he is one of the many people being honored because of that. he is a visionary and he believes in giving back. in the spirit award celebrates that in many different genres. kathy adams is being honored. we have wilma chan. bell have a davis and many more. >> great. >> what a list of luminaries. >> yes. we have brenda knight and jacqueline rushing from the sacramento of bay area young scholars program. you have to look at the list. it is amazing. >> it is a list of amazing people. now, is it narda? >> well, i am narda. >> well, that is what i call you. i like to get the name right because i know that name has meaning as a deeply spiritual name. >> i was given this name in 1976 by my teacher. it means supreme musician. it is a testament to my music and my life. >> perfect. >> yes and a saint, soul, in india lived thousands of years ago and could appear and disappear and inspired people to love god more. so that is where the name comes from. >> fantastic. i have a young stepson who wants to throe in your footsteps. when you started in music, what called you to this? what was your inspiration. >> i think i made a pact with god. i said i want to play music, lord. and the lord said i will give you the gift, but inspire people to have more gratitude. so, for people who play music, it is a gift you are given, like your gift. >> you have played with everyone. you have done composing, producing. is it fair to ask what your favorite moment was in performing or composing? i prefer perming on some levels because -- performing son some levels bass it is -- because it is more immediate. producing is not as immediate. you are working toward a greater end. one head helps the other, though. they are different gears. >> i understand. what would you say to someone who is a young and aspiring exposer or producer -- composer or producer who wants to do what you are doing? >> love what you do. have fun with it. if you love what you do you will have other people loving what you do. >> be in the moment and be present? >> yes. >> and. i know you need to feel yourself to have something happen. you have to feel it. >> that is great advice. now, janice, in the spirit awards we will get to see narda tonight? >> yes. i have to say years ago i had the privilege of being in his studio. he even allowed me to play his drums. >> oh, my god. >> he is laughing because it was that bad. >> no, it was not. it was very nice. >> but when we talk about the spirit of giving back and loving what you do, it is the spirit that drives us saying we believe in life and we believe in each other and we want our community to be stronger. >> what is life without spirit and inspiration. it is so important. you brought so much and i absolutely thank you for that. and janice i know you are up to cool stuff, too. >> yes. i am executive producing work in the silicon valley, so, i am very excited about that. and veteran radio veteran nick parker is the mc. it will be wonderful to work with hick. >> that is wonderful. we can soak up all that energy and light. i want everyone to get there, so, please get your tickets if you want to attend tonight's in the spirit awards at 6:30, tonight, sunday, at the scottish wright center in oakland. thank you for all you do. you stay right there because we have so much more inspiration for you. -i'll never forget that moment. woman: as long as i live. man: i realized, at that moment, when we first saw the damage, these people really needed us and i was going to make a difference, right here in my community. together with local responders, we cleared trees and collapsed walls. we had to get to the family trapped beneath. as a citizen-soldier, i made a difference. announcer: be there for your community, at nationalguard.com. . welcome back. in a recent study in african- american women's skin compared to white women, white women had wrinkles while african- american women's are smooth. that is why we say black don't crack. african-americans have their own set of challenges. here to offer help is super model anderson. you have skin challenges? no! >> i do. i get some of the hyper pigmentation, is that what it is called, doctor, around my cheek, so, i have been some products. more even skin tone. >> that is you before you had the treatment. wow! >> you can see it there. and this is a very common condition which is quite rev lent in african-american patients and patients that are of colored skin. we call it ma has ma. although we don't see as much wrinkling, there are a lot of issues in younger and older patients. you won't ridge as much when you are black, but you can often be more blotchy. so, there are definitely challenges although it may not be wrinkling. there is uneven skin tone, exaggeration of skin conditions like melasma we see in women in their 20s, 30s and 40s and volume loss in laxity regardless of your color. >> that is what we are talking about. aging. your politically correct term like you just start to droop. you can correct things like melasma? >> yes. >> how do you correct it. you like amazing? >> well, women say why am i getting this? you can get them with birth control at the time of pregnancy and menopause. it is like oh, my gosh, another thin to be concerned about. so, before we had laser this is very safe the treating all skin types -- >> what is a fract lays center. >> it is a laser that is very safe because it takes part of the skin and leaves part of the skin intact and addresses the pigmentation conditions. and we have different conditions 9 four% hydroquinone and other products we use to treat pigmentation from melasma and piper pigmentation that is common. what makes you look older you get more blotchy and uneven skin. recordless of the color of the skin it is uneven toned. it reflects light. as we get older we got blotchy and wrinkly. if we can correct that -- there is a common myth in african- american skin you can't do the treatments, it is dangerous and lasers can't be used -- >> i wondered about that. but you can? >> yes. there are aboccasions called color line technologies, a lot of them developed right here in the bay area in the silicon valley, these little companies are developing things that are truly color blind. >> that is amazing. right here in the bay area. >> absolutely. so, you can treat hyper pigmentation. what are other risks of people of skin of color. i know a myth is they can't get skin cancer. >> that is a big myth. i point to bob marley who passed away from melanoma, so, i tell people use the sunscreen as soon as possible. although it is not as high as caucasian people, it is still as prevalent. we need to protect our skin. the melasma, the number one thing that makes it work is the sun. use the sunscreen even in this sunny bay area. >> how heavy of sunscreen should you use and what is really the optimal thing? >> that is an excellent question. i tell patient to use a brood spectrum sunscreen which has protection against ultraviolet 8 and ultraviolet b. so, look for blood spectrum. >> get -- get brood spectrum -- broad spectrum sun block, right? >> yes. look for the fact that it also has uva protection, protection. >> no now, what about beauty treatments. what can with we do quickly? >> someone like natalie, there is very little. she is so beautiful. but there are things like prevention, maintenance and intervention. preevents and maintenance is ascii. the clear and brilliant lasers can prevent and treat pigmentation. then the university treatment, regardless of the color of your skin is still botox. because what women love -- regardless of the age is the brow lift that you get. not just the treatment of the frown line, but the natural lift of the brow is wonderful. >> from botox? >> absolutely. >> can i get your number, doctor? i will need some pep! >> and regard legs of the color of the skin we droop as we get older, so, there are treatments that are innovative like thermage. >> okay. we have so much more to ask the doctor about, don't we. you will want to take his information now. it is dr. victor narcar at 2800 webster street suite 505 here in san francisco. you can call him and contact him at... thank you for being here, doctor, and natalie, for being a glowing example of what we may all look like. stay right there. we have treats ahead. . welcome back. have you ever dreamt of the perfect cookie experience? well, if you are like me, you love cookie monster and your cookies. i have my special fashionista friends here. you are so great. you two are in business as a mother and doctor making, in my opinion, the best cookies ever. >> we have to agree with you! thank you. >> how did you get the idea to start bumcies and go in business together? >> initially, brenda, any mother taught me to bake these cookies, tasty cookie, when i was 7 years old with my brownie troop. he had to go to the orphanage twice a year and we would take our baked goods. i asked her to bake cookies after watching her do it for years. and then she would let me help mix to begin with. then i got older and started baking, making cookies for everyone and it took off from there. >> so, these are your mom's recipes? >> yes. these are my mom's recipes. then i taught my precious daughter when she was 8 because she is a true connoisseur of cookies. >> so, three generations making these fantastic cookies. what is your mom's favorite? >> i am going to say chocolate chip, brenda. but during the year i think maybe that and oatmeal. >> really? >> yes. >> i know you brought some just for halloween! >> we did! >> let me see these. they are still warm. >> yes. we just baked them, so -- >> are these -- oh my gosh. look at these cookies. they are so beautiful and they match my outfit because i am wearing my owed to san francisco giants! yea! being the native san francisco can that i am. may i taste? >> absolutely. >> oh my goodness. that is absolutely amazing! what is your advice for people that want to bake and be successful? >> be patient about your product. with us, everything is made by hand and from scratch. >> i have seen you with the mixing bowl. >> yes. it is really a great thing for people and customers to be able to come and see we are actually preparing and measuring the ingredients. we use the absolute best ingredients and every batch is, like we said, made by hand. you can smell the aroma as it billows out into the air. it brings people in. i am thinking what are you baking? and they say i smell cookies and it really creates excitement. >> what advice would you give to someone who wants to do what you two have done. small businesses have faced a lot of challenges in america repeatedly, so what is your best advice? >> for us it has been our faith. it has allowed us to -- even though we spray been a little app rehen sieve or -- apprehensive or scared to do it, i would rather do it shaking than not at all. it has been our faith and we have had a lot of angels and guides along the journey to help us do it. >> and how long have you been in business? >> three-and-a-half years. >> you weathered one of the most challenging economic times we have faced. >> yes. >> but you know what, you have said it is so important. this is a high truth coming from the meisters of cookies -- have faith! be patient about what you are doing. there is an old saying, fear knocks on the door. faith opens the door and nobody is there. nobody is there when we have faith. fear cannot overcome you. what is your favorite cookie to make? do you have a favorite? >> well, they are all my favorite. i mean our menu isn't too extensive. we have lemon frosted snacks, a newer recipe. we have butter cookies. we have semi sweet chocolate chips, and the butter cookies. >> semi sweet chocolate chips? >> yes. i bet those are your favorites. >> absolutely. >> that is for you! >> thank you for joining us today. you have to visit their store. for more information, visit... . >> you are fabulous. all our wonderful guests today brought us health, wealth and happiness in unique ways and i want to bring you more health, wealth and happiness, too, by getting rid of the toxicity in your life. you may wonder what is this all about. every show we give you news you can use. what is a toxic relationship? one where the person says mean things to you or hurtful things to you or undermines your goals when you are looking to make changes and worst of all they are constantly being negative in their tone in how they treat you by justifying it by saying i had a rough day, or somebody has to tell you the truth, or it is just tough love. never mind all of that. remember this. love is not supposed to hurt. most toxic relationships come from misunderstandings about money, so, i have a gift for you. i started the love money and save us seminars. you can go to my website at doctorbrendawade.com. when you go to the website i will give you the seven secret to detox your life now. it is a relationship and love secret guide. all right? we will take another look right now with narda michael walden's production of mariah carey. i am brenda wade. blessing, everyone.
just as well as i do, that the bridges and overpasses do freeze more quickly than other surfaces. and the reason behind that is, because you lose a lot of the heat across not only the top part of the bridge but the bottom part and the sides. that cold air invades every location across the bridges and overpasses. tomorrow morning, that's the main threat that we're going to be watching for, commuters head out across the bay area. bridges and overpasses will freeze quickly. as many of them have already probably started to freeze in the forth bay, with the temperatures in the 20s. tomorrow morning, the worst spots will be through the santa cruz mountains, and highway 17. and every bridge and overpass between there has the threat of freezing, as well. the temperatures expected to be the coldest tonight into tomorrow. you want to make sure you are prepared if you're hitting area roads. and bundle up. it is cold out here. >> thank you so much. some great at vidvice. who will hit 19 degrees by 6:00 a.m. on thursday? >> thanks, jeff. it wasn't too cold for a tree lighting celebration at a san jose school tonight. while some were bundled up, pint-sized performers braved the temperatures for tonight's festivities. bay area residents we talked to say they're not that bothered by the early blast of winter. >> it's a small price to pay for the nice weather we get all year long. >> tonight, the primary plus benefited toys for tots. you can always go to our website, nbcbayarea.com to find your complete forecast and to post your weather photos. nbcbayarea.com. two women in los gatos are warning others about their suspicious incidents with a man. george joins us from los gatos this evening. >> this is the street right here. roberts road, where a woman said she thought a man was going to attack her in her car. and 24 hours later, police say another woman was approached, this time at knifepoint. neighbors are wondering if it's the same man. >> absolute shock. i had no idea that it happened. >> reporter: she's going to be a little more aware of her surroundings. she lives on roberts road in los gatos, where another woman says a strange man opened her door and asked how she could get to a bridge. more than likely, the bridge that was right down the street. she thought the man was going to attack her. >> it's not fun when someone approaches you. but luckily, she came out okay. the woman shared her experience on facebook with her friends. one neighbor said she remembered seeing something on her facebook news feed. 24 hours later, los gatos police said another woman was held up at knifepoint in a back parking lot. >> she shouldn't be walking by herself. >> reporter: the waitress screamed and the would-be thief took off with nothing. los gatos police are trying to see if there's a connection. both happened within 24 hours of each other. and it's prompted many to be on alert. >> i will look around myself and will be aware of odd behavior. >> the description of the suspect is general. a man in his early 30s with light hair and light eyes. police have asked them and nearby businesses for surveillance video. a follow-up to a story we first told you about last night. some 50 friends of a 17-year-old cyclist killed last night in san jose held a memorial this evening to remember him. police say anthony garcia was killed when a driver hit him near the corner of vista park and branum lane. garcia was rushed to the hospital. but he died shortly thereafter. his girlfriend this evening, took time to remember him at the vigil. >> he was friendly. he talked to everyone. he always had a smile on his face. he never wanted any drama. he was just trying to be cool with everyone. >> the driver that hit garcia is cooperating with investigators. the accident, though, brings the number of deadly automobiles versus pedestrian and cyclist crashes this year, to 25. that's more than twice the number of 2012. milpitas police is looking for a man and woman caught in a scuffle that was caught on tape. >> that's being recorded by an a.c. transit bus. it happened last night around 6:00. the driver of the bus had just pulled over for a stop on east calveras boulevard when she witnessed that scuffle. she saw the man dragging the woman into the bushes. when police arrived two minutes later, they couldn't find the couple. if you know who they are, you are asked to call the milpitas police department. a black eye for b.a.r.t. an emergency as a train was stuck inside the berkeley hills tunnel. but b.a.r.t. is blaming the aging fleet and may need taxpayers' help. jean elle in san francisco with more on the problem and the possible solution. jean? >> reporter: well, raj, first it was a labor strike. now, it's maintenance issues. b.a.r.t. riders just want reliable transportation. to secure that, they may have to approve a tax hike. >> i had to get off of the freeway to go back to get on b.a.r.t. to get to my event on time. otherwise, the event will probably be over by the time i would get here. >> reporter: kathy adams relies on b.a.r.t. and she has a lot of company. hundreds of thousands of people count on the system. but after 40 years, b.a.r.t. says the system is falling apart. >> we're doing or very best to do the preventative maintenance that needs to take place. but b.a.r.t. is aging. it's over 40 years old. and there's billions in reinvestments needed. >> reporter: the latest breakdown stranded hundreds of passengers. and sent nine people to the hospital with breathing problems. an electrical short caused an equipment malfunction. the emergency brake engaged on a moving train in a tunnel. stopping the train and sending dust into cars. cell phone video shows people helping one passenger who was passed out. >> people had a hard time breathing. >> reporter: b.a.r.t. says the 40-year-old train had maintenance in october and was in good working hard. but it says the aging fleet and infrastructure need to be replaced. scott winer says it's not spin. there is trouble down the tracks. >> we know that in the next 25 years, on top of what it needs today, b.a.r.t. has about $6 billion or $7 billion in unfunded capital needs. >> reporter: transportation dollars will cover some costs. but b.a.r.t. is expected to ask voters to approve a regional bond measure to cover the rest. will frustrated riders agree to a tax increase? adams is onboard. >> more taxes we'll have to pay. but at the end of the day, this is our community. and people need to get to work. >> reporter: the new trains are on order. but they won't hit the tracks until 2017. in the meantime, maintenance is crucial. the search will resume for a silicon valley executive and his family. this video is from today's search in idaho. three days and still no sign. san jose resident dale smith was flying his family from oregon to montana on sunday. he reported engine trouble near boise. do you recognize a man we're about to show you? fremont police are searching for this man caught on camera burglarizing a home saturday afternoon on egers drive near fremont boulevard. you see him going room-to-room searching for valuables. if you know who he is, investigators would like to hear from you. still ahead, you're not seeing double. take a look. that's triple. the rare delivery here in california. you might want to change a lot of your passwords. the discovery that exposed major problems affecting social media and e-mail accounts. and forget wrestling with the christmas tree to get it home. how you could have one delivered to your front door tomorrow, thanks to a local tech company. we're going to go to the skiers and snowboarders. you may want to change your passwords asap. 2 million are out in the open. here's the breakdown. nearly 320,000 facebook logons, 21,000 twitter accounts and 54,000 google accounts compromised. another 320,000 e-mail accounts were also leaked. security firm that discovered the log-in is warning people it's very easy to get passwords. it should be more complicated. 16,000 people have the password 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. now, the city of richmond wants to ban e cigarettes. the city council wanted to ban them. they worry that the e-cigs could be a gateway to the real secrets. they are not yet regulated by the fda. the ordnance will get a second reading in january and could become law in richmond 90 days later. after a long and sometimes bitter debate, a controversial project to improve soccer fields at golden gate park will finally move forward. a san francisco judge threw out environmentalist claims that the project did not have proper oversight. the judge's move clears the way for the city to replace grass soccer fields at beach chalet with synthetic turf and new lights. the $14 million project is expected to start next year and be completed in 2015. a country music singer used her star power to rename the san jose civic auditorium this evening. >> two, one. >> that's wynonna judd. she performed at the rededication event. it will now be called the city national civic. part of a sponsorship deal with citibank. $15 million is spent to renovate the 77-year-old building. how would you like a christmas tree? but no pine needles in your car? maybe you don't have a car. you can still get a tree. one-day tree delivery between 11:00 and 8:00 p.m. you can use the uber app to order a seven-foot to eight-foot tree. the convenience will cost you $150. users could request ice cream trucks and kittens for petting sessions by using the service. the weather is the talk of the town. not just in the bay area, but in the sierra. just in time for the holiday rush, we have plenty of snow. a live picture of highway 50 and ski run boulevard. this is at the base of heavenly valley in south shore lake tahoe. single-digit temperatures are expected overnight. jodi hernandez has the story. >> reporter: folks here have been enjoying night skiing as the snow falls down tonight. folks are having a ball out here. they've been shredding, cutting the rail, pumping the track. you would not believe the fun that people are having. we got a lesson as snow lovers shared their excitement. >> people are ready to go skiing and snowboarding. we're happy to have them. >> reporter: it's all-smiles on the slopes. as ski lovers take advantage of newest powder. >> up top, there's a nice pump track. some sick little booters. and there's some probably, four or five inches of fresh pow this morning. maybe more on the edge of like six or seven. good spots. real wind-blown. >> reporter: cal berkeley student gabe powell traded in his books for snow boots today. waking up at the crack of dawn to enjoy the day on the mountain. >> there was some white action up top. tons of pow. super fun. an awesome park. it was a great day. >> reporter: he's not the only one who played hookie. diana ferris caught a case of snow fever. she had to hit the slopes. >> the storm came on tuesday. big storm came last night. i knew i was calling in sick today. >> reporter: as thrilled as snow lovers are, their more pumped to know more is on the way. >> i'm cutting the rails. it's nice. >> reporter: now, as the snow continues to fall down tonight, you can see that the snow machines are also running. these are running 24/7. so, there is plenty of snow for folks to ski and snowboard on here tonight. the snow continues to come down tonight. and it is cold. a chilly 16 degrees. >> you think jodi learned how to do that? >> shred the nar. cutting the rails. >> have you been cutting the rails? >> i have not. and i'm still having a hard time catching up with all that information. unreal. you know, another thing that's unreal here, totally gnarly, at least for the bay area, napa has set their record for what we should have in the morning with 25 degrees. last time we saw temperatures that cold was back in 2009. also, a new record cold temperature. santa rosa at 28. last time it was this cold, was in 1998 for them. freeze warning in effect. a newly issued areas under the freeze warning are the east bay and the south bay. that's where temperatures are going to be dropping an additional five to eight degrees for tonight. the overall range, 25 to about 36 degrees. and of course, as many of you know in the south bay who have opened up the door and stepped outside in the past hour, freeze warning also here for you. that includes the peninsula, as well. let's get a look at some of the damage here across the bay area. what you're going to see are temperatures right now running five to ten degrees colder than this time last night. so, if you thought it was chilly last night, again, as we head throughout tomorrow morning, those numbers are going to be even chillier. so, let's get a look right now across the bay area. most temperatures averaging in the 30 toss about 40 degrees. the north bay 38. san francisco, 42. will likely have record-setting low temperatures here, as well. by 7:00 a.m., 37 degrees in the city. by 2:00 p.m., it's going to stay in the chilly side. temperatures in the low 50s. we have a lot of sunshine. that's going to be a savior on the forecast. for the south bay, 38 right now. you're expecting 20s around 6:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m., 31 degrees. and the arctic air mass that's currently above is going to continue to stream down. this polar air going up here from alaska and canada. that's not going to go anywhere. we don't think for about the next 36 hours. pretty much locked in at this point. tomorrow morning, some of the coldest weather. up in the north bay, 19 degrees in napa. we talked about that earlier. that will be the coldest. for the east bay, 25 in livermore. and san jose expecting 26 degrees. here's what to expect. you want to make sure to wear the layers. the bottom line overall in this, as we head throughout saturday morning, we are expecting the temperatures to warm up. we should be out of that freeze warning category. a lot of sunshine for the south bay, the peninsula. temperatures about 50 to 52 degrees. san francisco, 52. we'll take you to the north bay, east bay and the tri valley. mainly trending in the upper 40s. the same goes here for the tri valley. let's transition things now. from the cold story on thursday and mainly friday, to possibly some rainfall by friday night, also into saturday. and here is the new twist on this. by 6:00 a.m. on friday, some of the forecast models are bringing down rainfall across the bay. we think by saturday morning, at 5:00 a.m., a slight chance of south bay rain/snow mix in the forecast. you remember the last time we had snow here in the bay area. >> about a year ago? two years ago? >> very good, yes. it was. >> that was a broad net i threw out there. >> like to give you credit. february 26th of 2011. i remember it well. a lochk night. >> some time in the last five years. the white house mishap involving one of president obama's dogs. we're going to show it to you. [ female announcer ] for those who love sweets your season is here. let's just call it the baking time of year. you need special ingredients. you need the staples for homemade. you need safeway sugar for just a buck eighty-eight. and that magic thing that makes everyone want another only two ninety-nine for challenge butter. and when hands get messy, quite surely they'll say, yum! wow! yay! what a sweeter holiday. safeway. ingredients for life. mom swaps one of my snacks for a yoplait. i don't mind, i mean it's orange crème. and when mom said bobby was too edgy... 'sup girl. i just swapped him out for tyler. 'sup girl. mom never questioned bobby again. two can play at this game. [ female announcer ] swap one snack a week for a yoplait. and everybody wins. yoplait. it is so good. one bundle of joy is enough to keep you up all night. how about three? say hello to abbe, brynn and laurel. the triplets were born a week and a half ago. they conceived the girls the old-fashioned way. no fertility treatment. >> i think it's more amazing to us to hold the babies. the number has never meant a whole lot. it's a really big number. >> we're not too concerned. we feel like we've got this. >> three, little baby girls. the odds of giving birth to identical triplets naturally are anywhere from 1 in a million to 1 in 100 million. >> a healthy nervousness. sonny obama stole the show today at the white house party. you see that? knocked over that little girl. he didn't mean to. it was an accident. knocked her over. but it all ended well. a lot of affection all around. you see the first lady there, helping. stepping in, getting the girl to her feet. and sonny, giving the girl a kiss. got some pats on the head after doing so. >> sonny's a little puppy. i saw bo in the background, too. what are you doing? >> standing guard. middle-earth is back at denny's with the build your own hobbit slam. twenty delicious options, like sweet potato pecan pancakes, hearty breakfast sausage and honey cake french toast. a meal to satisfy the hungriest of hobbits. see "the hobbit: the desolation of smaug." good evening, everyone. the 49ers and seahawks have developed one of the best rivalries in the entire national football league. another chapter will be added sunday at the stick. fans don't have to try hard to get pumped up for this one. but we're going to let jim harbaugh convince you anyway. >> if this doesn't fire up the fans, what does? abraham lincoln riding across the field with a frock and a top hat. i doubt that would fire them up if this game doesn't fire them up. people that really love football will be fired up by this match-up. >> nice abraham lincoln mention there. over to the raiders we go. rashad jennings has reportedly passed his concussion test and was practicing today in alameda. branch practiced for the first time since fracturing his fibula on september 15th. against the jaguars. stanford will visit arizona state for the pac-12 championship. that's on saturday. the rose bowl on the line. the first meeting at stanford stadium. the sun devils undefeated when playing at home. making this match-up very intriguing. >> every place he plays, it's hard to play. it's going to be loud. the crowd's going to be into it. they feed off of it. especially the defense. they can get off the ball and rush the passer. for us, it's about keeping our composure. take a bunch of field goals. you have to end the drives in the end zone. and also, slow them down on defense. >> it's tough playing away. we have the speaker noised in practice. we have to run up and execute. and it's hard to do. and it's what you have to do. >> back to basketball we go. according to "the san francisco chronicle," jermaine o'neal has a torn legment. but he's going to try to hold off on the procedure as long as possible. the 35-year-old is averaging just under seven points per game this season. that's going to do it for sports. more nbc bay area news after this. christmas spirit has arrived in new york. 45,000 l.e.d. lights lit up rockefeller center tonight. it is topped with a star made of 25,000 crystals. the celebration featured guests, kelly clarkson and mariah carey, as well. >> a lot of smiles. before we leave you, want to send you back outside. a lot of record low temperatures. our meteorologist, anthony slaughter join us from san jose. >> temperatures were in the 40s. we're at 41 degrees. and temperatures have fallen to 38 degrees here where i'm standing right now. of course, we want to send you off with one final alert. commuters in the morning, be prepared it's going to be cold. that means bridges and overpasses are likely to freeze over. if you're an early riser, before 9:00 in the morning, you want to be alert and pay attention to your drive tomorrow. this is going to be dangerous. we'll get you up and going. can tune in. and always on nbcbayarea.com to find the latest traffic updates. again, very dangerous road conditions are expected tomorrow morning. you want to make sure you are prepared before you head out. as we've been mentioning, it is going to be cold. make sure you are bundled. temperatures in the 20s and 30s. chilly. >> thanks for joining us tonight. is this flu shot necessary? it keeps you healthy during flu season. but does it hurt? nah. plus you get a really sweet bandaid! anything else i should know? here's a thought, try scoring more points on the other team. okay. even a warrior can get sick. kaiser permanente reminds you to get your flu shot this season. and why can you move the tv out here? the wireless receiver. i got that when i switched to u-verse. but why? because it's so much better than cable. it's got more hd channels, more dvr space. yeah, but i mean, how did you know? i researched. no, i-i told you. no. yeah! no. the important part is that you're happy now. and i got you this visor. you made a visor! yes! that i'll never wear. ohh. [ male announcer ] get u-verse tv for just $19 a month for two years with qualifying bundles. rethink possible. >> announcer: it's "the tonight show with jay leno," featuring rickey minor and "the tonight show" band. tonight, jay welcomes -- melissa mccarthy. from "watch what happens live," andy cohen. the music of empire of the sun. and now, jay leno! [ cheers and applause ] ♪ [ cheers and applause ] >> jay: thank you very much! thank you! thank you! [ cheers and applause ] thank you. thank you very much! did y'all have a fun halloween? [ cheers ]
dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with the news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of what i consider to be promotional movies about the life of hillary clinton, when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential right-hand, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates for running for president on the republican side of the aisle? >> priebus isn't alone on this. maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded his point has some rationality. if you think rationate is what drives priebus and the party, think again. he's wading into an ideology that he's even warned against, party isolationism. speaking to andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. this is that plan. >> charm, what do you think about a talk radio debate, where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hannity, and mark levin, and we interview some of the candidates. the bay i think would like that. >> listen, i actually think that's a very good idea. >> here's the irony. he led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it? by shutting out news outlets and retremendousing for a your fox news echo chamber michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh action and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yeah, some form of it, to be honest. >> why? >> but will et me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there's no body of evidence to prove your point, so there's nothing beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who, like chuck todd and others, would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta, and i think it does set up an argument that may come back to bite, point one. point two -- how do you infers this with the candidates sum 2015 when they're crap to get on the board and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say, you know what? if you hold a debate and do your thing, that's fine, we just won't cover it. i think this is premature, though i get what is being done here and probably would do some form of it, but not now. >> i used the words echo chamber. i was thinking of the wen dar morning after 2012's election when those were paying attention only to drudge, fox radio and -- it was like a truck had hit hem. >> because they were only talking to each other and only watching fox news, and only listens to rush. >> won't this be more of that? >> i think it is more of that. i think on the one hand you have this alleged autopsy and this desire to reach out to more people, michael, but of this desire to go insular, control the terms of the debate. sadly it seems like mr. priebus decided the last long campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, people didn't like what they saw. this time around, i would think a lot of new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience, certainly chris christie if he were to run would not abide by a ditch cnn or ditch nbc strategy. >> some people in the party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that com spires with the white house. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> you know, you can look back to the last primary season and wonder whether there was collusion between some reporters. when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted action between a former democratic operative and basically the president's campaign -- >> well, are you alleges that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying it makes you wonder. he's also said publicly he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> i love the part "it makes you wonder" it reminds me of "the house of cards" the francis underwood version, you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment that republicans at the national, even the local level receive by the media, whether it's in print or tv or radio, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked, and i appreciate people focusing just on fog,. >> i think we have to be careful here. it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations, doing this type of self-promotional, on behalf of hillary clinton, at the beginning of what could be a hotly contested open seat, so i i think it's a legitimate point to be made. >> michael, i would understand it, more, joan, i will put this to you, i would understand is more if the negative was attributal to the questioning by partisan members selfthe media, but it wasn't. often it was the audience, often it was questions from fox news that elicited they responses. >> that brought out the crazy. >> rand paul sounds paranoid. when the contraception -- that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine. cede ception was a big part of the cycle, it wasn't partisan questions from the media that made the gop debates the most memorable. it's whether a gay soldier asked a question. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq i had to lie who i was, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is, under one of your presidencies, do you question to circumstance come vent -- >> yeah, i would stay any type of sexual activity -- i think it tries to inject -- and the military's job is to do one thing. that's to defend our country, to the ability to do so. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> similarly, i'm not going to show this, but it was another fox debate. i'm sure you remember the 10 to 1 question, that was bret behr who threw that into play. you won't eradicate those questions. >> i think a lot of people were surprised how reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012, so there's no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance, there should be openness for sure, there's no sanctuary, so you're going to get the tough questions. i think the candidates know that going into this, which again is more of a play on my estimation that rallies the base, as reince says on "morning joe" he's being approached from people saying it's about time. i think it's too soon, proo premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product will be. at the end of the day, how much of it will you control when you have seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. >> let me ask this question of joan wallish. might it impact the ploukt? and i raise this thinking of "zero dark thirty." there was a hue and cry this would be a valentine to president obama, the catherine bigelow movie. there was a delay in the release, and when it came out president obama was like a ten or 20-second figment in a steve croft interview and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might they have an impact on the way that hillary clinton is treated, by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" who is kind of hostile to the kind of corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. there's no evidence that either of these projects is biased in her favor, but reince priebus, i just want to say as a woman, i thought the way they treated mika this morning, i would never let you personally moderate a debate, coming on to a show where she's a co-host and putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think it's kind of mean and has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. there was something off about it. >> i appreciate you both being here. thank. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell, his campaign chief just got caught on tape saying this, quote -- between you and me i'm holding my nose for two years, because what we're going here will be a big benefit to rand in to 2016. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you, it's no wonder your safe seat just got tossed into the -- and the calls for bob filner's removal from office are growing louder. we have his former deputy campaign manager, who counts herself among him victims. plus one former texas republican official has come up with a new reason to oppose obama care. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. finally let me finish tonight between the important difference between a crime and hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. but, dad, you've got... 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[ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away, but we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead. it's clinton's 62, and vice president at 8%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. christie the early favorite at 21%, rand paul in second with 16%, and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. " yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. ♪ don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom! don't tell mom. okay. don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom? yeah. the best stories you'll ever tell start with, don't tell." don't tell dad. start yours in the new santa fe. from hyundai. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a conversation between an arden ron paul activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to ron paul's granddaughter oversaw his election campaign, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this which benton complies on the tame. a recording has beensh in which benting in hi own words describes how he feels about his current job. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. doing here will be a big benefit to rand. so that's my long vision. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said, quote, it is truly sick that one would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell and i'm is 00% -- being selected is one of the great mondayoring of my life, and i look forward to victory in november of 2014. if he has to hold his know to work for him to benefit rand paul's all but certain presidential ambitions, what does that say? the leader is in a statistic cal dead heat. secretary of state allison lunder gain-grimes, but also caught in the cross hairs on a challenge from matt biven. joining me to discuss this, sam stein and democratic strategist markie omero. what is the net of this? might there be blow-back? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turned into a national story. you know, that's unfortunate for him. i feel badly that happened. i think ultimately voters, though, are going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out, but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what's wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction clearly saying in his own words, our number one goal is to try to defeat president obama. and so i think a lot of voters have justhood it with washington as usual. there's no one who demonstrates that as much as mitch mcconned. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited is a symptom rather than a cause. >> sam stein, usual mitch mcconnell, i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> uh, no, you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over was to give him the type of cachet with rand and ron paul? as you mentioned his's ron paul's son-in-law. so you cannot just ease will i toss him aside. it is damaging to the extent that matt biven cannot just turn around and say, listen, even conservatives, even the -- on own campaign admit they have to hold their nose to work for the guy, so why not vote for the true conservative? that's where it becomes damages. what are you hoping for? doubt mcconnell to survive a primary process, or do you want the tea party candidate to be victorious? >> i think there are pros an cons for both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand and that's one that's weakened, one in a continues to be unpopular and vulnerable, but he'll be likely better funded for a tea party than biven. i think biven has a clear opening, as sam said, to try to make news of this and try to keep the story around. look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it, she has a lot of strong support, a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. i think she'll be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, is how do republican primarily voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. you know, i hate to come on the show show and say i don't know things. my suspicion is that opinions of mitch mcconnell are bakley baked in the cake. the guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. kentuckiens like him. but if you had the mind-set, this reinforced the theory. if el thought he was a good politician, i don't know if this necessarily dissuedes you. >> the strange this ink to me, at least, listening to this conversation, is that it was not among friends over a beer, where you might be inclined to say, my god, i'm holding my nose for the next two years. there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion, and then he drops this bomb like, play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that. you can shouldn't speak like that in any real company except for maybe your mom, your therapist or spouse unless you're read,for it toss out. the political community in ka is ultimately pretty small, so it's a mistake and probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you real it the same way? i heard you chuckle. >> what's odd is this is the second time i believe that a surrepetitious recording has leaked. the first time was the strategy sessions for dealing with the potential ashley judd candidacy. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. it suggests there's people in the republican party, perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business, where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that which they're saying is being recorded. >> for better or worse, everybody -- candidates, operatives, staff, interns -- just assume you're on camera being miked at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> i keep waiting for b-roll, which shows him smiling. i swear i don't think i've ever seen an image where the imagine is anything but, you know, frumpy in his appearance. >> yes, he does tent to have the same facial expression throughout it all. the initial statement from the campaign is they're tilling i by jesse. he's going to try to turn bad lemon into bad lemonade, i guess. >> thank you both. hey, don't forget, you can listen to my radio program weekbay mornings from . a reason to oppose obama care? she says it's the work of satan, this is "hardball"," place for politics. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. 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[ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food. it's oscar mayer. i'm julia boorstin with your cnbc market wrap. the dow jumped 27 points, knead dab ended higher by 15 points. more americans filed new claims for unemployment benefits last week. jobless claims rose by 5,000. groupon shares soared 21% after a better than expected earnings report, and naming cofounder eric lefkofsky as the new ceo. the cbs blackout is now in its seventh day. that's it from cnbc, first in big worldwide. now back to "hardball." we're back, 13 women have come forward with charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner, but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yesterday. two female veterans said he made sexual advances at them last year, the truly shocking thing is where exactly filner met them. at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning, one of the women eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. we trusted him, and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> it just adds to the list of shocking behavior by the san diego democrat. >> i would have to squirm a little, and just as recently as a couple months ago this happened. i turned and he just slobbered down my chin. i was so violated and so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left. i was the last one in the room, and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, got very close to me, and ran hi finger up my cheek, and he whispered, do you want a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me. i pointed out that he asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the emballotsed mayor has entered a two-week behave program, but has refused to step down, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time-consuming recall process. she too says he was harassed, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt." laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fund-raising functions, and i was at a formal dinner when i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him, one of the guests commented i should be appreciated for my effort and i had worked my behind on. he proceeded to tell me to turn around action which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laughed and said, nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction? >> i think they were in shock, and i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association -- reactions you might associate with the situation come later, and so i would imagine that that was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there's strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are coming forward. why didn't you come forward sooner? >> well, i do you wanted the incident, demanded an apology and asked this not happened to other women at the time, but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, you're not sure he's doing this to other people, and furthermore you're not sure you'll be taken seriously. it's extraordinarily intimidating. the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former -- and dean at san diego state, assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> was it nevertheless known among people who are close to him, hey, this guy is creepy and you've got to be careful? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think some of his behavior has devolved and become more pervasive and more intense over the years, so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolate. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everyone had a suspicion, but i don't -- obviously we're all finding out now. he spend 20 years as a member of congressivities last we're hillary rosin told cnn that his behave was no secret to some people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members who said this guy has been -- that everybody thought he was a little keepy. >> dade weigel wrote that his ultra-slow-motion downfall tells us how long you can get away with being a creep in politics. is the tolerance for mild creepyness is quite high, because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up. karen, as i've watched this unfold, i've been thinking about sandusky. if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. it's hard to believe that for 20 years in the house, he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was, and again, probably there people didn't come forward, because they weren't sure, how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? >> part of this makes me want to remind people, is this is why it's so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed, because that time and time again, from the sandusky case to military sexual assault cases that we've been hearing more and more about, what did the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. they were afraid it won't be believed, right? it's interesting the i can tell us there's a conversation that i and many of my women friends that we get from our parents when we go to the work world telling you to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said, if it does, we'll believe you, but i think we don't have enough systems and enough, you know, attitudinal changes to make sure that people know. this is zero-tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute, it's not funny. it's got to be a zero-tolerance policy. >> how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized to come forward? i want i think you give them a means to do so. there's statute of limitations, sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how can you promote a work environment where there doesn't feel there will be a consequence to do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage women to come forward and show them you will not be vilified. >> last month he announced he would be entering a two-week therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behaviorivity engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. this is an arduous process, though, now to get rid of him if he won't go. i certainly hope people -- there are a number of different efforts. ished sigh as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy as got to go. where that mean the democratic party can help make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. against, this is unacceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he rae reading from a script and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two weeks? are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood, i went to rehab and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink, i get from him what i get from weiner, this seems a personal that would rather by drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not at all. >> but it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. there's no mechanism in his brain that says -- that is a sickness. >> i'm going to say, karen, if i could interrupt. it's even beyond that. i think he knows exactly what he's doing. he laughs when he does it, he enjoys -- and ultimately this is about power and the abuse of power, and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos or other folks, it's about abusing that power. so he knows that he's doing it. >> that's why i know it's so important that we're now having they conversations, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be believed if they come forward, but also creating a climate where it is absolutely nothing tolerated, because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. illustrates laura, knowing this personality away -- i take it you're not surprised that he refuse toss go silently into that night? >> i'm not surprised, not surprised at all. the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. just the sad fact of the matter. we do need him to resign as well, and so the ball is in his court, but i think there's things we can do to put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him, and my hope is, whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is that he's going to choose to resign, that's because of the public shaming, because of his pocketbook, i can't really say, but i hope he reaches that tipping point. >> thank you both for being here. up next, what do you think of when you see this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy, because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. being sixteen, alex thinks he's invincible. his dad knows he's not. that's why dad got allstate accident forgiveness. it starts the day you sign up. 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[ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. welcome back to "hardball" symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. they filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gad stone flag. it was a symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years it's been flown by some attendees at tea party rallies. though it's certainly not a formal symbol, it's in march shortly after a local veterans group replaced the tattered american flag with a new american flag and a city officials ordered it taken down. the troyic association filed a federal lawsuit. moiz valencia is a citizen volunteer, he actually purchased and gave the the gadsden flag to the veteran's group. peter applebaum is the our town columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. moises, are you a tea party guy? >> no. i've never been a member of the tea party. i'm not affiliated with any political group of this nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. why this flag? >> i always liked the gadsden flag because to me it symbolizes our human unalienable rights that we as americans and humans possess. it spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of. and i'm a historian of american history. so that's why. >> to whom, if anyone were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor, norm brampson. he has had a long history of disrespecting our veterans here in new rochelle and also our military history. he has leveled fort slocumb that we had in new rochelle. that's completely gone. the armory is our last remaining bit of history, and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's very bad condition. and they have done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure it's in as poor shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord. all across the country people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what is th big picture that you see? >> the big picture is just how polarized we have become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute. if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. for a lot of people now there is a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment, and then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience there. >> have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, connecticut, rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. but now it's part of the american culture and political wars. >> moises, the armory is municipal space. it was deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do, what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights. and if we have a dialogue, we can see it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. 5-2, along party lines. the ds said get rid of it, and the rs said keep it. >> whether it's government speech or whether it's private speech, it's a city-owned armory and a city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this certainly government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't alou. >> you obviously think there is an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> buzz of the fact that the veteran's organization is charted by the city and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. and they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue, and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same kind of passion that i heard on the airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country, and it has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so yeah, people are very passionate about it. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, fight for the right to take it back. >> absolutely. there are a lot of aggrieved people in america. and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. it tends to be conservatives that use the flag. maybe liberals should too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thanks for writing about it. >> thank you so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. clients are always learning more to make their money do more. 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(announcer) scottrade... ranked "highest in customer loyalty for brokerage and investment companies." i don'without goingcisions to angie's list first. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic! find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. let me finish tonight with that horrific footage of a fight on a florida school bus that made news this week. i'm sure you've seen or heard about the three 15-year-olds who beat a 13-year-old, gave him two black eyes and a broken arm. there is a debate now raging about the pictures you're looking at, some wondering if this was a hate crime because they watched three african-american perpetrators beating a white teen. but the motivation here seems to have been not race, but the 13-year-old snitched on one of the 15-year-olds for drugs. but there was a hate crime this week that was in news, and that came not on a school bus, but in a baseball field. it happened at mcu park in brooklyn, which is home to the met-affiliated brooklyn cyclones. a statue there depicts jackie robinson and peewee reece both playing for the dodgers in 1947or on crossley field. a particularly harsh day for robinson. robinson endured racist taunts, jeers and death threats that would have broken the spirit of a lesser man. some idiot added the n word and a was stika and a heil. i'm not a fan of calling something a hate crime. i think we open pandora's box when we ascribe punishment based on motivation, meaning what is in a american's head. but this is a clear-cut case. the defacing of the jackie robinson statue should be treated differently say than the arrest of a teen who tags or spray paints his name on a subway. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with
continues his attack on nbc and cnn for upcoming projects about hillary clinton. and why wouldn't he? this issue has everything that republicans could ever dream of, bashing hillary, and rallying the base all at the same time. it's the far right trifecta and priebus knows it. here's his plan. he's plan to shut them out of the primary process if they don't their hillary films even though they haven't written or filmed them yet. this morning on "morning joe" he dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with nbc's news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of making what i consider to be promotional movies. >> right. >> about the life of hillary clinton when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential run, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates running for president on the republican side of the aisle? it's ridiculous. >> priebus isn't alone on this one either. liberal columnist maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded that his point has some rationality to it. but if you think rationality is what drives priebus and the party, think again. priebus is wading dangerously into an ideology which even he has warned against. that would be party isolationism. and here is the proof. speaking to conservative radio host andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. and this is that plan. >> chairman, what do you think about a talk radio debate where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hadn't hannity and we interview some of the candidates. because the base i think would like that. >> listen, i don't think -- i actually think that's a very good idea. >> now, here is the irony. priebus led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it, by shutting out news outlets and retreating to your own fox news echo chamber? if he gets his way, it isn't new voices that the party will be hearing and reaching just their own. michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh is editor of salon, and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yes, some severe thunderstorm of it, to be honest with you. >> why? >> let me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there is no body of evidence to prove your point. and so there is nothing to really beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who like chuck todd and others would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta. and i think it really does set up an argument that may come back to bite. point one. point two, how do you enforce this with the candidates come 2015 when they're scrapping to get on the board, and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say you know what? if you hold a debate and you do your thing, that's fine. we just won't cover it. so they've got to be very smart. and i think this is a little bit premature, even though i get what is being done here, and probably would do some form of it if i were still chairman, but not now. >> joan, i use the words echo chamber. >> yeah. >> and what i was thinking of when i said that is the wednesday morning after 2012's election, when those who were paying attention only to drudge, only to talk radio, and only to fox, it was like a truck had hit them. they didn't see it coming. they really didn't recognize that it's a big country out there. >> because that were only talking to each other, and they were only watching fox news, and they were only listening to rush. >> is this more of that? >> i think it is more of that. on the one hand you had this alleged autopsy and the desire to reach out to more people, michael. but this desire to go really insular, talk to one another, control the terms of the debate. and sadly, it seems like mr. priebus decided the last campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, that people didn't like what they saw. but this time around, i would think a lot of these new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience. >> yeah. >> certainly chris christie if he were to run is not going to abide by a ditch cnn and ditch nbc strategy. so it's crazy. but as you said, there is no downside for him right now. >> some in the republican party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that conspires with the white house against republicans. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> well, you know, you can look back to the last primary season, and you wonder whether this was collusion between some reporters. you know, stephanopoulos asks an obscure question about griswald and birth control when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted option between a democrat operative. >> well, are you alleging that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying that it makes you wonder. and he has also said publicly that he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> hey, michael, i love the part, it makes you wonder. it reminds me in "house of cards" with that line. i saw in the original version, the francis underwood version you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment of the republicans even at the national level receive by the media whether it's in print, on tv or the raid yolk, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked. and i appreciate people focusing just on fox, because that's literally all we have in terms of conservative tv. and a handful of stations around the country on the conservative radio. and i understand that. but i think we need to be very careful here, not bite off more than there is to chew. the reality of it is it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations doing this type of self-promotional or promo on behalf of hillary clinton at the beginning of what will be a hotly contested open seat for the presidency. so i think it's a legitimate point to be made. we just need to be smart and more careful about how we talk about it. >> michael, i would understand it more. joan, i'll put this to you. >> right. >> i would understand it more if the bad, the negativity that came out of those many debates was attributable to the questioning of the partisan members of the media. but it wasn't. i've gone back and reconstructed what transpired in those debates. often it was the audience. often it was questions from fox news personalities that elicited the response. >> that brought out the crazy. no liberal media figure made poor rick perry forget which agency she was going to shut down. i think there is something overly aggressive. rand paul sounds paranoid. the big contraceptive issue that came up, that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine i believe about his views that contraception is doing something is that is not okay. >> and contraception was a big part of the 2012 cycle, especially in the senate races. let me show you something if i might. it wasn't questions from the media that made the gop debates most memorable. this is one fatal moment when a gay soldier asked a question at a fox news primary debate in 2011. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that has been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? >> yeah -- i would say any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. and "don't ask, don't tell" i think tries to inject social policy into the military, and the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country. we need to give the military, which is all volunteer, the ability to do so in a way that is most efficient and protective of men and women in uniform. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> and michael steele, similarly, i'm not going to show this. but it was another fox debate. and i think this had a lingering after effect. i think you remember the ten for one question, the ten spending cuts that was bret baier who threw that into play. by wiping out nbc's and cnn's role, you're not going to eliminate those sort of tough questions. >> that's the real kicker here in the irony for me. i think a lot of people on the right were surprised at how bret and other fox analysts and reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012. so there is no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance there should be openness for sure. there is no sanctuary. so you're going to get the tough questions. and i think the candidates know this going into this. which, again, more of play in my estimation that rallies the base. as reince said this morning, he is being approached by people who said it's about time you did this. and that's the effect they're going for. the problem is i think it's too soon. i think it's premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product is going to be. and at the end of the day, how much of this are you really going to control when you've got seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. you're not going to tell them to shut up and sit down because they won't. >> let me ask this of joan walsh. might it impact the product? and i raise this because of "zero dark thirty." you remember approaching the election there was a hew and cry. there was a delay in the release. when it came out, president obama was like a 10 or 20-second fight in a steve kroft interview on a television screen, and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might nay have an impact on the way hillary clinton is treated by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" is kind of hostile to the corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. so there is no evidence that either of these projects is biassed in her favor. but, you know, reince priebus, he also, i just want to say as a woman, i thought that the way he treated mika this morning was really kind of zurich, telling her personally i would never let you personally moderate a debate, mika, coming on to a show where she is the co-host and really putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think he is doing something that is kind of mean and that has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. it was something off about it. >> appreciate both of your being here. michael steele, joan walsh. good to see you again. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell. his campaign chief who used to work for rand paul just got caught on tape saying between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years, because what we're doing here is going to be a big benefit to rand in 2016. that's rand as in rand paul, kentucky's other senator. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you it's no wonder your safe seat just got toss had in the toss-up column. bob filner being accused of sexual harassment. the calls for his removal are growing even louder. his former campaign manager who counts herself among his victims. plus, one official comes up with a new reason to oppose immigration. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. and finally, let me finish tonight with the important difference between a crime and a hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. t on the streets. 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[ male announcer ] fiber one. le. the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away. we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead over the field, according to a new wmur university of new hampshire poll. it's clinton 62 and vice president biden at 8%. massachusetts governor deval patrick at 5%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. chris christie the early favorite at 21%. rand paul in second with 16%. and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. our start up is not making any money yet even though it's the best idea ever. but dress for success right? so we started using tide, bounce and downy together. it keeps our clothes looking newer longer. we'll be right back. which was back when we had corporate jobs. even if right now we can't afford...well, anything, our clothes look like a million bucks oo, maybe we could sell our clothes [ female announcer ] using tide, bounce and downy together keeps clothes looking newer fifty percent longer. great on their own. even better together we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a recording between an ardent activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to rand paul's granddaughter oversaw his presidential campaign, rand paul's election to the senate in 2010, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this? which benton implies on the tape is eminent. economic policy journal.com has obtained a reporting in which benton in his own words describes how he feels about his current job. listen. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said it is truly sick that someone would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell, and i'm 100% committed to his reelection. being selected to lead his campaign is one of the great honors of my life, and i look forward to victory in november 2014. if mcconnell's own campaign manager has to hold his nose to work for him to benefit rand paul's presidential ambitions, what does that say? right now he is in a statistical dead heat or trails his opponent allison leison lundergan grimes. joining me to discuss this revelation and the race are "the huffington post" sam stein and democratic strategist margie omero. margie, what is the net net of this? might there be blowback that causes people to be sympathetic to this individual? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turn into a national story. and you know, that's unfortunate for him, and i feel badly that that happened. i think ultimately, voters, though are, going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out. but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? and he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what is wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction, the very clearly saying in his own words our number one goal is to try and defeat president obama. that was his stated policy goal. and so i think a lot of voters have just had it with washington as usual. and there is no one really who demonstrates washington as usual as much as mitch mcconnell. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited about him is really a symptom rather than a cause of where his troubles are going to be. >> sam stein, you are mitch mcconnell. i know this is a stretch for you. but i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> no. you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over to run the mitch mcconnell campaign was to give him the type of cache with the rand paul, ron paul crowd. he's ron paul's son-in-law. this is not someone you can easily toss to the side and dismiss because you risk offending a great swath of primary republican voters. thing is the most damaging thing to ever happen in politics. i'm not going to blow it out of proportion. but it is damaging to the extent that matt bevin, the tea party challenger can now just turn around and say hey, listen, each conservatives on mcconnell's own campaign admit that they have to hold their nose to work for the guy. so why not just vote for the true conservative in the race. i think that's where it becomes damaging. it increases that narrative that mitch mcconnell is more of an establishment guy than a paul guy. >> margie, what a democratic standpoint, what are you hoping for? who is the easier of the candidates to pick off if you're the d in this race? do you want mitch mcconnell to survive a process or the pea party to be victorious? >> thing are pros and cons to both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand, and that known brand is one that is weakened, it's one that continues to be unpopular and vulnerable. but he will likely be better fund and that a tea party than bevin, if bevin should win the primary. i think bevin has a clear opening. sam said to really try to make news of this and to keep the story around. and, look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it. she has a lot of strong support. she has a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. and i think she is going to be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, at least in the short-term, how do republican primary voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. i hate to come on a show and say i don't know about things. it remains to be seen. my suspicion are opinions of mitch mcconnell are basically baked in the cake. this guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. part of kentuckians do like him because he does bring back projects to the state. he is a very good local politician. but if you had your mind-set up that mitch mcconnell needed to be ousted because he wasn't conservative enough, this reinforces your theory. if you thought he was good politician for the state of kentucky, i don't know if this necessarily dissuades you. >> margie, listening to this conversation, this surreptitiously recorded conversation is that it was not among friends over a beer. >> yeah. >> where you might be inclined to say oh my god, i'm holding nose for the next two years there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion. and then he drops this bomb. play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's -- it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that if you don't want them to get out. you shouldn't really speak like that in any kind of real company, except for maybe your mom, your therapist, your spouse, unless you're ready for it to get out. because people talk. and the political community in kentucky and around the country is ultimately pretty small. so it's a mistake. and it probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you find it odd listening to it? i heard you chuckle as i made this comment. >> what is odd is this is the second time i believe that a surreptitious recording involving the mcconnell campaign was is leaked. the first was the potential ashley judd candidacy. i'm really curious what is going on here. this is rare to happen once. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. and it suggests that there are people within the republican party perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> and margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that what they're saying is being recorded in some form or another. >> for better or worse, everybody. candidates, operatives, staff, interns, just assume you're on camera being mic'd at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> sam, i keep waiting for there to be b roll that shows mitch mcconnell smiling. i swear i have never seen an appearance where he t man appears to be frumpy in appearance. >> my impression is they're sticking by jesse. there is not many options they have. he is going to turn bad lemons into bad lemonade i guess. >> thank you. by the way, late this afternoon, senator mcconnell and jesse benton tweeted this picture trying to make light of the whole hold your nose episode. a programing note, don't forget -- texas has a new reason to oppose immigration reform. she says it's the work of satan. this is "hardball," the place for politics. announcer ] made just a little sweeter... because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. the physical damage was pretty bad. the emotional toll was even worse. our daughter had nightmares. what that robber really took from us was our peace of mind. with adt, we got it back. 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[ male announcer ] call now and get adt installed for just $99. you could save a lot more than money. hurry, and take advantage of these savings. adt. always there. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. former presidential candidate mitt romney reemerged this week with some unsolicited advice for republican voters in 2016. but will his fellow republicans listen? here is jimmy fallon's take on that last night. >> mitt romney told republicans that they need to pick a candidate for 2016 who can actually win. and republicans said yeah, wish you told us that last year. thanks a lot. next up, the former chair of the texas republican party is coming out against the senate's immigration bill. why? because she thinks it's demonic. here is kathy adams talking about that on end team talk radio. >> i think the latest nonsense i saw from the homeland security department was something like a million people that have come here on visas that we have no idea where they are. >> do you know where they're taking us with this? because they said the solution to all these lost foreigners in the country, the solution is biometric scanning. >> i do understand that. i've seen it. i've heard it. and of course we know in biblical prophesy. that is the end time that is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. that is demonic through and through that is end times prophesy there is no question about that. >> in case you were wondering, the senate immigration bill does not include the branding of immigrants. new york mayor michael bloomberg is taking the lessons of detroit's bankruptcy to heart. he cautioned that new york city could suffer a similar fate if it takes its financial well-being for granted. his warning comes, coincidentally, on an anniversary of new york's own fiscal crises in the '70s. here is a flashback to new york's last federal bailout, which was signed 35 years ago on this day in 1978. >> on the steps of city hall in new york this afternoon, president carter signed into law a bill to keep the city from going bankrupt. with this law, the federal government guarantees more than $1.5 billion of loans to the city over the next four years. the white house decided it should be done outside where it would draw a large crowd. an effort, said the white house aides, to portray firm presidential action. >> we've come a long way. up next, 13 women have now accused san diego mayor bob filner of sexual harassment. when we return, we'll meet one of his accusers. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ villain ] well mr. baldwin... it appears our journey has come to a delightful end. then i better use the capital one purchase eraser to redeem my venture miles for this trip. purchase eraser? it's the easy way to erase any recent travel expense. i just pick a charge, like my flight with a few taps, it's taken care of. impressive baldwin. does it work for hotels? absolutely thank goodness. mrs. villain and i are planning our... you scare me. and i like it. let's go what's in your wallet? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪ the dodge summer clearance event. right now get 0% financing for up to 72 months and no payments for 90 days on all dodge vehicles. to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. 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[ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in. hey there. i'm veronica de la cruz. here is what is happening. san diego authorities say a man accused of kidnapping a 16-year-old girl may be armed with homemade explosives. james dimaggio is accused of killing the girl's mother and possibly her younger brother. fema has authorized federal funds to assist california in a wildfire burning out of control. it has forced 1500 people to flee their homes. and trains trigger flash floods across several states prompting evacuations. two are dead. i'm veronica de la cruz. let's get you back to "hardball." we're back. 13 women have now come forward with allegations of sexual harassment, groping, and other charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner. but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yet. this week two female veterans said that filner made sexual advances at them last year. the truly shocking thing is where filner met them, at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning one of the women, eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. well trusted him. and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> the latest news just adds to a list of shocking allegations of behavior by the san diego democrat. >> he would come in and try and kiss me on the lips. and i'd have to squirm to get away. and just as recently as a few months ago, this happened. and i turned, and he just slobbered down my chin. and i was so violated and i was so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left, and i was the last one in the room. and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, and he got very close to me. and he ran his finger up my cheek like this, and he whispered to me do you have a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around as a rag doll while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me was improper. i pointed out that he had asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the embattled mayor has entered a two-week behavior treatment program, but has refused to step down from office, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time consuming recall process. laura fink is a political consultant and a former deputy campaign manager for mayor filner. she too says she was harassed by him, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt" which airs weekends here on msnbc. laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fundraising functions. and i was at a formal dinner where i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him in order to do so, one of the guests commented that i should really be appreciated for my efforts and that i had worked my behind off for him. he proceeded to tell me to turn around, which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laugh and said nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction from those who were at the dinner? >> you know, i think that they were like were, in shock, and they were just looking for a way to get beyond that moment. i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association, reactions you might associate with the situation come later. and so i would imagine that it was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there is strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are now coming forward, 13 as of this particular moment. why didn't you come forward sooner? what is it about needing to see others who were similarly afflicted before everybody came forward? >> well, i documented the incident, and i demanded an apology, and i asked that this not happen to other women at the time. but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, in particular when you feel alone or you feel isolated. you're not sure that he is doing this to other people when it happens to you. and furthermore, you're not sure that you'll be taken seriously if you come forward. it's extraordinarily intimidating. and the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former navy mayor of san diego, a dean at san diego state and a prominent businesswoman assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> but was it nevertheless known among people who were close to him, hey, this guy is creepy, and you've got to be careful when you're around him? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think that some of his behavior has devolved, and it's become more pervasive and more intense over the years. so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolation. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everything had a suspicion, but i don't, you know, obviously we're all finding out now. >> filner spent 20 years as a member of congress. last week hilary rosen told cnn his behavior was no secret to people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members and former members who said that this guy has kind of been this way all along. that everybody thought that he was a little creepy. >> to that point, slate's david weigel wrote filner's ultra slow motion downfall tells us how long you can get along with being a creep in politics. the tolerance for mild creepiness is quite high because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up with. karen, as i watch this unfold, i'm thinking about sandusky, because i said to myself, this can't be just -- if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. >> of course. >> it's hard to believe that for 20 years in who t house he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was. and people probably didn't come forward because how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? part of what this makes me want to remind people this is why it is so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed. because that time and time and time again from the sandusky case to the military sexual assault cases that we have been hearing more and more about, what do the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. >> he is the mayor, the congressman. >> they were afraid that they wouldn't be believed. it's interesting. as a woman, i can tell you that there is a conversation that i and many of my women friends, we girls get from our parents before we go off into the work world telling you this could happen to you, and to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said if it does, we believe you. but i think we don't have enough systems and enough attitudinal changes to make sure that people know this. is zero tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute. it's not funny. it's got to be a zero tolerance policy. >> laura, to karen's point, how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized such as yourself to come forward? >> well, i think that you give them a means to do so. i mean, it's a complicated issue. there are statues of limitations on lawsuits. sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how do you report this? how do you immediately address it? and how do you promote a work environment where it doesn't feel as if there will be a consequence if you do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage other women to come forward and to show them that you are not going to be vilified for this. >> last month, mayor filner apologized to the women and announced that he was entering a two-week intensive therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behavior i have engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. >> right. >> this is an arduous process, now, to get rid of him if he won't go. >> i certainly hope there are people, there are a number of different efforts. this is also i should say as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy's got to go. whether that means the democratic party can help make that happen, the people of san diego, what help do they need to make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. i hope they get enough signatures. because, again, this sun acceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he was reading from a script, and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two week, are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood oh, i went to rehab, and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink for a moment, i get from him what i get from weiner in a sense this seems to be a personality that would rather be drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not drawing it at all. >> but also it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. some of the women that you talked -- a rear admiral? my heavens. a businesswoman? there is no mechanism in his brain that says that's inappropriate. i shouldn't do that. that's a sickness. >> laura, go ahead. >> karen, if i can interrupt, just from my experience with him, it's even beyond that. i think that he knows exactly what he is doing. he laughs when he does it. he enjoys putting people in uncomfortable situations. and ultimately, this is about power and the the abuse of power. and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos. >> that's right. >> or other folks, it's about abusing that power. and so he knows that he is doing it. >> and that's part of why it's so important, again, is we're having these conversations. now that some of this stuff is getting out on the table, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be bieved if they come forward. but also creating a climate where it is absolutely not tolerated. because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. >> laura, knowing this personality the way that you have, from having worked with him in the past, i take it you're not surprised that he refuses to go silently into that night. >> i'm not surprised. i'm not surprised at all. and the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline to get the signatures. it's going to require a herculean effort. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. it's just the sad fact of the matter. we really do need him to resign as well. and so -- the ball is in his court. but i think there are things we can do to put pressure on him. i think that's part of -- the lawsuit will put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him. and my hope is whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is he is going to choose to resign. and that might be because of the public shaming. that might be because of his pocketbook. one can't really say. but my hope is that he reaches that tipping point. >> well, thank you both for being here. thank you, laura fink, thank you, karen finney. up next, what do you think of when you she this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 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[ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ welcome back to "hardball." symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. in new rochelle, new york, a veteran's group has filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gadsden flag. the famous phrase "don't tread on me" was the symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years the gadsden flag has been flown by some attendees at tea party rallies. though it's certainly not a formal symbol, the flag has become associated with the tea party in some quarters. but in march after they replaced the tattered flag at the local armory with a new american flag and the gadsden flag flying officials ordered it taken down. in response, the patriotic association of new richelle f e filed a federal lawsuit. moses is a citizen volunteer with the save our armory committee. he actually purchased and gave the gadsden flag to the veterans group. peter is the "our town" columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. are you a tea party guy? >> i've never been a member of the tea party, not affiliated with any political group of that nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. >> i've always liked the gadsdn flag. to me, it was something that spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of and i'm a historian of american history. that's why. >> to whom, if anyone, were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor. if there was any message to be sent, the mayor has had a long history of disrespecting the veterans in new richelle and also our military history. the armory in new richelle is our last bit of remaining history. and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's in very bad condition. and they've done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure that it's in as poor of shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord all across the country. people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what's the big picture that you see? >> the big picture is how polarized we've become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute over this, but rightly or wrongly, if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. >> right. >> for a lot of people, there's a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern in old city, philadelphia, close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience. >> right, there have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, in connecticut, in rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue that, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. now it's part of the american culture and political -- >> the armory is municipal space. it's deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association, flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do. what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that, you know, we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights and if we have a dialogue, we can see that it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. your point of polarization. 5-2. the ds said get rid of it, the rs said keep it. >> right. the legal question will come down to something that has very little to do with the meaning of the flag which is whether it's government speech, whether it's private speech. it's a city-owned armory and city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this is essentially government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't allow. >> you obviously think there's an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> yes. because of the fact that the veterans organization is chartered by the city, and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of a reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same sort of passion that i heard on the airwa airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country and has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so, yeah, people are very passionate. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, you know, fight for the right to take it back. >> well, absolutely. you know, because i was thinking, there are a lot of aggrieved people in america, and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. conservatives use this flag, maybe liberals should, too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thank you for writing about it. >> thanks so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. she's stl the one for you - you know it even after all these years. but your erectile dysfunction - you know,that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. his dad knows he's not. that's why dad got allstate accident forgiveness. it starts the day you sign up. 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[ female announcer ] call an allstate agent cashback concierge, here. what is a cashback concierge? well there's lots of ways you can get cash back. i'm here to help you get the most out of your cash rewards. it's personalized, and it's free. i want that. we have a concierge! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with cashback concierge. let me finish tonight with that horrific footage of a fight on a florida school bus that made news this week. i'm sure you've seen or heard about the three 15-year-olds who beat a 13-year-old, gave him two black eyes and a broken arm. there is a debate now raging about the pictures you're looking at, some wondering if this was a hate crime because they watched three african-american perpetrators beating a white teen. but the motivation here seems to have been not race, but the 13-year-old snitched on one of the 15-year-olds for drugs. but there was a hate crime this week that was in news, and that came not on a school bus, but in a baseball field. it happened at mcu park in brooklyn, which is home to the met-affiliated brooklyn cyclones. a statue there depicts jackie robinson and pee wee reese both playing for the dodgers in 1947 on cincinnati's crosley field. a particularly harsh day for robinson. the description reads in part -- robinson endured racist taunts, jeers and death threats that would have broken the spirit of a lesser man. some idiot added the n word and a swastika and the word heil. i'm not a fan of calling something a hate crime. i think we open pandora's box when we ascribe punishment based on motivation, meaning what is in a person's head.
the base all at the same time. it's the far right trifecta and priebus knows it. here's his plan. he's plan to shut them out of the primary process if they don't their hillary films even though they haven't written or filmed them yet. this morning on "morning joe" he dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with nbc's news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of making what i consider to be promotional movies. >> right. >> about the life of hillary clinton when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential run, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates running for president on the republican side of the aisle? it's ridiculous. >> priebus isn't alone on this one either. liberal columnist maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded that his point has some rationality to it. but if you think rationality is what drives priebus and the party, think again. priebus is wading dangerously into an ideology which even he has warned against. that would be party isolationism. and here is the proof. speaking to conservative radio host andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. and this is that plan. >> chairman, what do you think about a talk radio debate where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hadn't hannity and we interview some of the candidates. because the base i think would like that. >> listen, i don't think -- i actually think that's a very good idea. >> now, here is the irony. priebus led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it, by shutting out news outlets and retreating to your own fox news echo chamber? if he gets his way, it isn't new voices that the party will be hearing and reaching just their own. michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh is editor of salon, and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yes, some severe thunderstorm of it, to be honest with you. >> why? >> let me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there is no body of evidence to prove your point. and so there is nothing to really beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who like chuck todd and others would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta. and i think it really does set up an argument that may come back to bite. point one. point two, how do you enforce this with the candidates come 2015 when they're scrapping to get on the board, and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say you know what? if you hold a debate and you do your thing, that's fine. we just won't cover it. so they've got to be very smart. and i think this is a little bit premature, even though i get what is being done here, and probably would do some form of it if i were still chairman, but not now. >> joan, i use the words echo chamber. >> yeah. >> and what i was thinking of when i said that is the wednesday morning after 2012's election, when those who were paying attention only to drudge, only to talk radio, and only to fox, it was like a truck had hit them. they didn't see it coming. they really didn't recognize that it's a big country out there. >> because that were only talking to each other, and they were only watching fox news, and they were only listening to rush. >> is this more of that? >> i think it is more of that. on the one hand you had this alleged autopsy and the desire to reach out to more people, michael. but this desire to go really insular, talk to one another, control the terms of the debate. and sadly, it seems like mr. priebus decided the last campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, that people didn't like what they saw. but this time around, i would think a lot of these new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience. >> yeah. >> certainly chris christie if he were to run is not going to abide by a ditch cnn and ditch nbc strategy. so it's crazy. but as you said, there is no downside for him right now. >> some in the republican party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that conspires with the white house against republicans. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> well, you know, you can look back to the last primary season, and you wonder whether this was collusion between some reporters. you know, stephanopoulos asks an obscure question about griswald and birth control when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted option between a democrat operative. >> well, are you alleging that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying that it makes you wonder. and he has also said publicly that he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> hey, michael, i love the part, it makes you wonder. it reminds me in "house of cards" with that line. i saw in the original version, the francis underwood version you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment of the republicans even at the national level receive by the media whether it's in print, on tv or the raid yolk, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked. and i appreciate people focusing just on fox, because that's literally all we have in terms of conservative tv. and a handful of stations around the country on the conservative radio. and i understand that. but i think we need to be very careful here, not bite off more than there is to chew. the reality of it is it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations doing this type of self-promotional or promo on behalf of hillary clinton at the beginning of what will be a hotly contested open seat for the presidency. so i think it's a legitimate point to be made. we just need to be smart and more careful about how we talk about it. >> michael, i would understand it more. joan, i'll put this to you. >> right. >> i would understand it more if the bad, the negativity that came out of those many debates was attributable to the questioning of the partisan members of the media. but it wasn't. i've gone back and reconstructed what transpired in those debates. often it was the audience. often it was questions from fox news personalities that elicited the response. >> that brought out the crazy. no liberal media figure made poor rick perry forget which agency she was going to shut down. i think there is something overly aggressive. rand paul sounds paranoid. the big contraceptive issue that came up, that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine i believe about his views that contraception is doing something is that is not okay. >> and contraception was a big part of the 2012 cycle, especially in the senate races. let me show you something if i might. it wasn't questions from the media that made the gop debates most memorable. this is one fatal moment when a gay soldier asked a question at a fox news primary debate in 2011. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that has been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? >> yeah -- i would say any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. and "don't ask, don't tell" i think tries to inject social policy into the military, and the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country. we need to give the military, which is all volunteer, the ability to do so in a way that is most efficient and protective of men and women in uniform. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> and michael steele, similarly, i'm not going to show this. but it was another fox debate. and i think this had a lingering after effect. i think you remember the ten for one question, the ten spending cuts that was bret baier who threw that into play. by wiping out nbc's and cnn's role, you're not going to eliminate those sort of tough questions. >> that's the real kicker here in the irony for me. i think a lot of people on the right were surprised at how bret and other fox analysts and reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012. so there is no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance there should be openness for sure. there is no sanctuary. so you're going to get the tough questions. and i think the candidates know this going into this. which, again, more of play in my estimation that rallies the base. as reince said this morning, he is being approached by people who said it's about time you did this. and that's the effect they're going for. the problem is i think it's too soon. i think it's premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product is going to be. and at the end of the day, how much of this are you really going to control when you've got seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. you're not going to tell them to shut up and sit down because they won't. >> let me ask this of joan walsh. might it impact the product? and i raise this because of "zero dark thirty." you remember approaching the election there was a hew and cry. there was a delay in the release. when it came out, president obama was like a 10 or 20-second fight in a steve kroft interview on a television screen, and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might nay have an impact on the way hillary clinton is treated by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" is kind of hostile to the corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. so there is no evidence that either of these projects is biassed in her favor. but, you know, reince priebus, he also, i just want to say as a woman, i thought that the way he treated mika this morning was really kind of disturbing, telling her personally i would never let you personally moderate a debate, mika, coming on to a show where she is the co-host and really putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think he is doing something that is kind of mean and that has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. it was something off about it. >> appreciate both of your being here. michael steele, joan walsh. good to see you again. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell. his campaign chief who used to work for rand paul just got caught on tape saying between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years, because what we're doing here is going to be a big benefit to rand in 2016. that's rand as in rand paul, kentucky's other senator. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you it's no wonder your safe seat just got toss had in the toss-up column. bob filner being accused of sexual harassment. the calls for his removal are growing even louder. his former campaign manager who counts herself among his victims. plus, one official comes up with a new reason to oppose immigration. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. and finally, let me finish tonight with the important difference between a crime and a hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. so... 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[ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this cadillac srx for around $369 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year. the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away. we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead over the field, according to a new wmur university of new hampshire poll. it's clinton 62 and vice president biden at 8%. massachusetts governor deval patrick at 5%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. chris christie the early favorite at 21%. rand paul in second with 16%. and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a recording between an ardent activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to rand paul's granddaughter oversaw his presidential campaign, rand paul's election to the senate in 2010, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this? which benton implies on the tape is eminent. economicpolicyjournal.com has obtained a reporting in which benton in his own words describes how he feels about his current job. listen. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said it is truly sick that someone would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell, and i'm 100% committed to his reelection. being selected to lead his campaign is one of the great honors of my life, and i look forward to victory in november 2014. if mcconnell's own campaign manager has to hold his nose to work for him to benefit rand paul's presidential ambitions, what does that say? right now he is in a statistical dead heat or trails his opponent alison lundergan grimes. joining me to discuss this revelation and the race are "the huffington post" sam stein and democratic strategist margie omero. margie, what is the net net of this? might there be blowback that causes people to be sympathetic to this individual? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turn into a national story. and you know, that's unfortunate for him, and i feel badly that that happened. i think ultimately, voters, though are, going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out. but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? and he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what is wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction, the very clearly saying in his own words our number one goal is to try and defeat president obama. that was his stated policy goal. and so i think a lot of voters have just had it with washington as usual. and there is no one really who demonstrates washington as usual as much as mitch mcconnell. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited about him is really a symptom rather than a cause of where his troubles are going to be. >> sam stein, you are mitch mcconnell. i know this is a stretch for you. but i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> no. you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over to run the mitch mcconnell campaign was to give him the type of cache with the rand paul, ron paul crowd. he's ron paul's son-in-law. this is not someone you can easily toss to the side and dismiss because you risk offending a great swath of primary republican voters. thing is the most damaging thing to ever happen in politics. i'm not going to blow it out of proportion. but it is damaging to the extent that matt bevin, the tea party challenger can now just turn around and say hey, listen, each conservatives on mcconnell's own campaign admit that they have to hold their nose to work for the guy. so why not just vote for the true conservative in the race. i think that's where it becomes damaging. it increases that narrative that mitch mcconnell is more of an establishment guy than a paul guy. >> margie, what a democratic standpoint, what are you hoping for? who is the easier of the candidates to pick off if you're the d in this race? do you want mitch mcconnell to survive a process or the pea party to be victorious? >> thing are pros and cons to both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand, and that known brand is one that is weakened, it's one that continues to be unpopular and vulnerable. but he will likely be better fund and that a tea party than bevin, if bevin should win the primary. i think bevin has a clear opening. sam said to really try to make news of this and to keep the story around. and, look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it. she has a lot of strong support. she has a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. and i think she is going to be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, at least in the short-term, how do republican primary voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. i hate to come on a show and say i don't know about things. it remains to be seen. my suspicion are opinions of mitch mcconnell are basically baked in the cake. this guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. part of kentuckians do like him because he does bring back projects to the state. he is a very good local politician. but if you had your mind-set up that mitch mcconnell needed to be ousted because he wasn't conservative enough, this reinforces your theory. if you thought he was good politician for the state of kentucky, i don't know if this necessarily dissuades you. >> margie, listening to this conversation, this surreptitiously recorded conversation is that it was not among friends over a beer. >> yeah. >> where you might be inclined to say oh my god, i'm holding nose for the next two years there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion. and then he drops this bomb. play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's -- it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that if you don't want them to get out. you shouldn't really speak like that in any kind of real company, except for maybe your mom, your therapist, your spouse, unless you're ready for it to get out. because people talk. and the political community in kentucky and around the country is ultimately pretty small. so it's a mistake. and it probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you find it odd listening to it? i heard you chuckle as i made this comment. >> what is odd is this is the second time i believe that a surreptitious recording involving the mcconnell campaign was is leaked. the first was the potential ashley judd candidacy. i'm really curious what is going on here. this is rare to happen once. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. and it suggests that there are people within the republican party perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> and margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that what they're saying is being recorded in some form or another. >> for better or worse, everybody. candidates, operatives, staff, interns, just assume you're on camera being mic'd at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> sam, i keep waiting for there to be b roll that shows mitch mcconnell smiling. i swear i have never seen an appearance where he t man appears to be frumpy in appearance. >> my impression is they're sticking by jesse. there is not many options they have. he is going to turn bad lemons into bad lemonade i guess. >> thank you. by the way, late this afternoon, senator mcconnell and jesse benton tweeted this picture trying to make light of the whole hold your nose episode. a programing note, don't forget texas has a new reason to oppose immigration reform. she says it's the work of satan. this is "hardball," the place for politics. back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. former presidential candidate mitt romney reemerged this week with some unsolicited advice for republican voters in 2016. but will his fellow republicans listen? here is jimmy fallon's take on that last night. >> mitt romney told republicans that they need to pick a candidate for 2016 who can actually win. and republicans said yeah, wish you told us that last year. thanks a lot. next up, the former chair of the texas republican party is coming out against the senate's immigration bill. why? because she thinks it's demonic. here is kathy adams talking about that on end team talk radio. >> i think the latest nonsense i saw from the homeland security department was something like a million people that have come here on visas that we have no idea where they are. >> do you know where they're taking us with this? because they said the solution to all these lost foreigners in the country, the solution is biometric scanning. >> i do understand that. i've seen it. i've heard it. and of course we know in biblical prophesy. that is the end time that is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. that is demonic through and through that is end times prophesy there is no question about that. >> in case you were wondering, the senate immigration bill does not include the branding of immigrants. new york mayor michael bloomberg is taking the lessons of detroit's bankruptcy to heart. he cautioned that new york city could suffer a similar fate if it takes its financial well-being for granted. his warning comes, coincidentally, on an anniversary of new york's own fiscal crises in the '70s. here is a flashback to new york's last federal bailout, which was signed 35 years ago on this day in 1978. >> on the steps of city hall in new york this afternoon, president carter signed into law a bill to keep the city from going bankrupt. with this law, the federal government guarantees more than $1.5 billion of loans to the city over the next four years. the white house decided it should be done outside where it would draw a large crowd. an effort, said the white house aides, to portray firm presidential action. >> we've come a long way. up next, 13 women have now accused san diego mayor bob filner of sexual harassment. when we return, we'll meet one of his accusers. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. we're back. we're back. 13 women have now come forward with allegations of sexual harassment, groping, and other charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner. but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yet. this week two female veterans said that filner made sexual advances at them last year. the truly shocking thing is where filner met them, at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning one of the women, eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. well trusted him. and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> the latest news just adds to a list of shocking allegations of behavior by the san diego democrat. >> he would come in and try and kiss me on the lips. and i'd have to squirm to get away. and just as recently as a few months ago, this happened. and i turned, and he just slobbered down my chin. and i was so violated and i was so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left, and i was the last one in the room. and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, and he got very close to me. and he ran his finger up my cheek like this, and he whispered to me do you have a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around as a rag doll while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me was improper. i pointed out that he had asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the embattled mayor has entered a two-week behavior treatment program, but has refused to step down from office, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time consuming recall process. laura fink is a political consultant and a former deputy campaign manager for mayor filner. she too says she was harassed by him, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt" which airs weekends here on msnbc. laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fundraising functions. and i was at a formal dinner where i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him in order to do so, one of the guests commented that i should really be appreciated for my efforts and that i had worked my behind off for him. he proceeded to tell me to turn around, which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laugh and said nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction from those who were at the dinner? >> you know, i think that they were like were, in shock, and they were just looking for a way to get beyond that moment. i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association, reactions you might associate with the situation come later. and so i would imagine that it was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there is strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are now coming forward, 13 as of this particular moment. why didn't you come forward sooner? what is it about needing to see others who were similarly afflicted before everybody came forward? >> well, i documented the incident, and i demanded an apology, and i asked that this not happen to other women at the time. but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, in particular when you feel alone or you feel isolated. you're not sure that he is doing this to other people when it happens to you. and furthermore, you're not sure that you'll be taken seriously if you come forward. it's extraordinarily intimidating. and the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former navy mayor of san diego, a dean at san diego state and a prominent businesswoman assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> but was it nevertheless known among people who were close to him, hey, this guy is creepy, and you've got to be careful when you're around him? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think that some of his behavior has devolved, and it's become more pervasive and more intense over the years. so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolation. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everything had a suspicion, but i don't, you know, obviously we're all finding out now. >> filner spent 20 years as a member of congress. last week hilary rosen told cnn his behavior was no secret to people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members and former members who said that this guy has kind of been this way all along. that everybody thought that he was a little creepy. >> to that point, slate's david weigel wrote filner's ultra slow motion downfall tells us how long you can get along with being a creep in politics. the tolerance for mild creepiness is quite high because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up with. karen, as i watch this unfold, i'm thinking about sandusky, because i said to myself, this can't be just -- if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. >> of course. >> it's hard to believe that for 20 years in who t house he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was. and people probably didn't come forward because how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? part of what this makes me want to remind people this is why it is so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed. because that time and time and time again from the sandusky case to the military sexual assault cases that we have been hearing more and more about, what do the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. >> he is the mayor, the congressman. >> they were afraid that they wouldn't be believed. it's interesting. as a woman, i can tell you that there is a conversation that i and many of my women friends, we girls get from our parents before we go off into the work world telling you this could happen to you, and to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said if it does, we believe you. but i think we don't have enough systems and enough attitudinal changes to make sure that people know this. is zero tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute. it's not funny. it's got to be a zero tolerance policy. >> laura, to karen's point, how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized such as yourself to come forward? >> well, i think that you give them a means to do so. i mean, it's a complicated issue. there are statues of limitations on lawsuits. sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how do you report this? how do you immediately address it? and how do you promote a work environment where it doesn't feel as if there will be a consequence if you do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage other women to come forward and to show them that you are not going to be vilified for this. >> last month, mayor filner apologized to the women and announced that he was entering a two-week intensive therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behavior i have engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. >> right. >> this is an arduous process, now, to get rid of him if he won't go. >> i certainly hope there are people, there are a number of different efforts. this is also i should say as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy's got to go. whether that means the democratic party can help make that happen, the people of san diego, what help do they need to make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. i hope they get enough signatures. because, again, this sun acceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he was reading from a script, and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two week, are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood oh, i went to rehab, and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink for a moment, i get from him what i get from weiner in a sense this seems to be a personality that would rather be drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not drawing it at all. >> but also it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. some of the women that you talked -- a rear admiral? my heavens. a businesswoman? there is no mechanism in his brain that says that's inappropriate. i shouldn't do that. that's a sickness. >> laura, go ahead. >> karen, if i can interrupt, just from my experience with him, it's even beyond that. i think that he knows exactly what he is doing. he laughs when he does it. he enjoys putting people in uncomfortable situations. and ultimately, this is about power and the abuse of power. and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos. >> that's right. >> or other folks, it's about abusing that power. and so he knows that he is doing it. >> and that's part of why it's so important, again, is we're having these conversations. now that some of this stuff is getting out on the table, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be believed if they come forward. but also creating a climate where it is absolutely not tolerated. because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. >> laura, knowing this personality the way that you have, from having worked with him in the past, i take it you're not surprised that he refuses to go silently into that night. >> i'm not surprised. i'm not surprised at all. and the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline to get the signatures. it's going to require a herculean effort. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. it's just the sad fact of the matter. we really do need him to resign as well. and so -- the ball is in his court. but i think there are things we can do to put pressure on him. i think that's part of -- the lawsuit will put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him. and my hope is whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is he is going to choose to resign. and that might be because of the public shaming. that might be because of his pocketbook. one can't really say. but my hope is that he reaches that tipping point. >> well, thank you both for being here. thank you, laura fink, thank you, karen finney. up next, what do you think of when you she this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this all-new cadillac ats for around $299 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. of the states that barack obama carried in both 2008 and 2012, 11 have republican governors whose terms end this year or next. three of those governors stand out as the most vulnerable. florida's rick scott, maine's paul lepage and tom corbett of my home state of pennsylvania. democrats have strong candidates in all three races, and those state mace well present the best chances for democrats to win back governorships in 2014. we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. in new richelle, new york, a veterans group filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gadsden flag. the yellow flag with its rattlesnake and phrase don't tread on any was a symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years the gadsden flag has been flown by attendees at tea party rallies. the flag has become associated with the tea party in some quarters. in march shortly after a local veterans group replaced the tattered american flag with a new american flag and a gadsden flag flying underneath it, city officials ordered it taken down. in response, the patriotic association of new rochelle filed a federal lawsuit. moses is a citizen volunteer with the save our armory committee. he actually purchased and gave the gadsden flag to the veterans group. peter is the "our town" columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. are you a tea party guy? >> i've never been a member of the tea party, not affiliated with any political group of that nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. >> i've always liked the gadsden flag. to me, it was something that spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of and i'm a historian of american history. that's why. >> to whom, if anyone, were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor. if there was any message to be sent, the mayor has had a long history of disrespecting the veterans in new rochelle and also our military history. the armory in new rochelle is our last bit of remaining history. and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's in very bad condition. and they've done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure that it's in as poor of shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord all across the country. people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what's the big picture that you see? >> the big picture is how polarized we've become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute over this, but rightly or wrongly, if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. >> right. >> for a lot of people, there's a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern in old city, philadelphia, close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience. >> right, there have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, in connecticut, in rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue that, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. now it's part of the american culture and political -- >> the armory is municipal space. it's deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association, flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do. what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that, you know, we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights and if we have a dialogue, we can see that it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. your point of polarization. 5-2. the ds said get rid of it, the rs said keep it. >> right. the legal question will come down to something that has very little to do with the meaning of the flag which is whether it's government speech, whether it's private speech. it's a city-owned armory and city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this is essentially government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't allow. >> you obviously think there's an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> yes. because of the fact that the veterans organization is chartered by the city, and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of a reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same sort of passion that i heard on the airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country and has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so, yeah, people are very passionate. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, you know, fight for the right to take it back. >> well, absolutely. you know, because i was thinking, there are a lot of aggrieved people in america, and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. conservatives use this flag, maybe liberals should, too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thank you for writing about it. >> thanks so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. let me finish tonight with that horrific footage of a fight on a florida school bus that made news this week. i'm sure you've seen or heard about the three 15-year-olds who beat a 13-year-old, gave him two black eyes and a broken arm. there is a debate now raging about the pictures you're looking at, some wondering if this was a hate crime because they watched three african-american perpetrators beating a white teen. but the motivation here seems to have been not race, but the 13-year-old snitched on one of the 15-year-olds for drugs. but there was a hate crime this week that was in news, and that came not on a school bus, but in a baseball field. it happened at mcu park in brooklyn, which is home to the met-affiliated brooklyn cyclones. a statue there depicts jackie robinson and pee wee reese both playing for the dodgers in 1947 on cincinnati's crosley field. a particularly harsh day for robinson. the description reads in part -- robinson endured racist taunts, jeers and death threats that would have broken the spirit of a lesser man. some idiot added the n word and a swastika and the word heil. i'm not a fan of calling something a hate crime. i think we open pandora's box when we ascribe punishment based on motivation, meaning what is in a person's head. but this is a clear-cut case. the defacing of the jackie robinson statue should b
♪ ♪ ♪ >> oh, god full of compassion, grant perfect peace in your presence among the holy and the pure, tole souls of all of our loved ones that perrished on that horrible day. they have gone to their eternal home, messenger of mercy we beseech you, remember all of their worthy and righteous deeds that they performed in the land of the living. may their souls be bound up in the bond of life eternal. there is no death, just transformation. may they rest in peace. and let us say amen. >> amen. >> please be seated. >> and let us unite our hearts in prayer, oh god of love and mercy, we come before you this night with broken hearts. we offer you our tears and our pain, our anger and our sorrow. oh, lord, there was a hole so large, we wonder if even you in your greatness can fill it as we grieve and mourn for those who are lost. each light that sits before us is a light that's been lost to our world. so many innocents, so many brave, lord, all we can do is throw ourselves upon your tender mercies, trusting that you hear our prayers. we know those who are lost because they're ours, lord, not names on some list, but our mothers, or sisters, our brothers, or friends, kindred all because if we did not know them ourselves, we know someone who did. and so, we pray, lord for all the souls lost and all the families and friends who are so torn by grief, for in this moment we are all your childr children, a family related by your love. so help us to care for these families in their sorrow and for each other in ours. may they feel the healing embrace of a neighborhood, a town, a state, a nation, a world. help us to forever remember that we embrace the grieving as our own and bring us together as one family to live together in peace and amity. help us to share the lights that stand before us. help us to carry them out into this world and share it with a world so in sorrow and so in need. we pray all of this in the name of your love as we all say, amen. >> this is an interfaith service at newtown high school. members of clergy, various churches, synagogues, places of faith throughout the region. next up, kathy adams shepherd, director of episcopal church will read psalm 23, all of these killed friday, the 26 inside sandy hook elementary school. we invite you to join with us in psalm 23, in any way that you know it in your heart. it doesn't have to be the words here. >> the lord is my shepard, he shall mott want leadeth besides the still waters, he restores my soul. he leadeth me in the path of the righteousness for his namesake, yea, though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death, i will fear no evil for thou art with me, thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. thou prepares the table before me in the presence of mine enemy. thou anointest my head with oil, my cup runeth over. surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and i will dwell in the house of the lord forever. let us pray. god in heaven, we thank you for your presence with us here on earth. we know that the children who were lost in the tragedy first belonged to you before they belonged to us. and we commit their souls to you, to your loving eternal care. we thank you, lord that they are now in a place of no more sickness, no more sadness, no more suffering and no more sorr sorrow and finally no more sin in the presence of you, his savior and ours. dear lord, as we live the children that we have lost in your hands, we ask that by your grace you would empower us to bless and comfort the children who are still here in our hands. please be with them in a special way as they grieve the loss of siblings and friends. life will never be the same for them and yet, we ask that you would help these precious little ones to carry the spirits of their lost loved ones in their hearts as they go along living their lives to its fullest according to your will for each of these girls and boys. and, lord, we ask most of all that you would use us to be a source of your healing in the midst of their wounds, that you would use those of us whose children are trying to hope as a source of your hope in the midst of any hopelessness, as you are the god of hope. use us to replace their anxiety with your peace as you are the god of peace. and please, fill their hearts with the sense of your love, your presence, your power and most of all, a sense of your care, not knowing what the future holds, but knowing that you hold it as you hold these precious little ones who are still with us today in your hands through our hands. and, lord, we ask in the name of the one who says, unless we become like little children, we cannot enter the kingdom of god. make us all child-like and not childish in our thoughts, in our words, in our attitudes and actions and behaviors, not only before others, but before you that we may look to you for better days ahead and that we may fulfill your purpose for us on this earth. we pray all of this in the name of our precious lord and savior, jesus, amen. >> that was the pastor from the new hope community church. this is an interfaith vigil, prayer service remembering the 26 people killed and there you see candles in front of the podium there, 26 of them to remember the 20 children and six adults killed in sandy hook elementary school. next a reading from the koran and a prayer from el hadya islamic center and prayer for the emergency responders from the visitation of spiritual growth, james sibley newtown united baptist church. you see the president looking on in the auditorium. ♪ >> . [singing prayer] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> in the name of god, compassionate and merciful. the muslim community in newtown, connecticut, and the nation join with our fellow americans grieving for those who died in this senseless tragedy and praying for them and their families. we ask god to grant those lost a special place in paradise and we ask their families to be granted the strength to endure the unendurable. it is in such times of almost unbearable loss that we seek the comfort with our creator and that artificial divisions of faith fall away to reveal a nation of mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, all united in a desire to bring renewed hope. the koran, text tells us that god's mercy and compassion are without limits and always available for those who ask. god says when my servants question you about me, tell me that i am here. i answer the prayer of every person who calls on me. chapter 2, verse 186. the koran, in the koran god also says give glad tidings to those who endure the patience, who when afflicted with calamity say, we belong to god and to him we shall return. such are the people on whom there are blessings and mercy from god, chapter 2, verse 155 and 157. so let us all of every faith, of every background, pray for god's comfort at this time of unbreakable-- heart breaking tragedy. with every difficulty there is ease, barely with every difficulty there is ease. chapter 94 verse 1 through 5, 5 through 6. >> a prayer for the first responders, let us pray. holy god, many of these men and women you called into service when they were just children. they wanted to be police officers and firefighters and care for those that were in need, lord. you gave them gifts for their life to serve. you asked them to pay a high price for all the skills that they have been given, for the strength that they have. you equipped them, you gave them a willingness to learn, to train, to study. you gave them a willingness to serve in the middle of the night when the call would come in and you gave them the willingness to respond when this town needed them the most. lord we thank you for those in this town that responded, but we thank you also for those throughout the state that came when the need was given. we thank you, lord, for their gifts and their strength and their courage. so we ask you, lord, to walk with them in the days ahead, to surround them with your angels. to give them people who will listen to their story, to listen to what they saw that was not for anyone to ever s see. lord, we place each and every one of these men and women in your care, but we will be faithful to them. we will care for them. we will continue to equip them and we will keep them ever in our prayers. amen. amen. >> . >> bret: listening live to the interfaith vigil at newtown high school, in newtown, connecticut remembering the 26 people killed at sandy hook elementary school on friday, 20 of them children. next we'll hear a reading and prayer from the bahigh tradition and john woodall and counselors, clergy and care givers from ecumenical chaplain of the luthren home. >> for the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, for all of you today, this is a, part of a sacred text from the bahigh faith written as a letter to a mother mourning for her child and i adapted it for this evening. >> although the loss of a child is indeed heart breaking and beyond the limits of human endurance, as one who knows and understands, is assured that the child has not been lost, but rather, has stepped from this world into another and you will find them in the divine realm. that reunion shall be for eternity, while in this world separation is inevitable and bring with it a burning grief. praise be unto god that thou has faith, is turning thy face toward the everlasting kingdom and believeth in the existence of a heavenly world. be not disconsulate, do not languish, do not sigh, neither wail more weep, for education and mourning deeply affect the soul, their soul in the divine realm. realm. >> that beloved child addressed from the hidden world, oh, thou kind mother and father, thank divine providence that i have been freed from a small and gloomy cage and like the birds of the meadows have soared to the divine world, a world which is spacious, ever joyous, therefore, lament not, oh, mother and father, and be not grieved. i am not of the lost, nor have i been obliterated and destroyed. i've shaken off the mortal form and have raised my banner in the spiritual world. following this separation is ever lasting companionship. thou shalt find me in the heaven of the lord immersed in an ocean of light. >> god, we'd call you by many names. great spirit, higher power, divine one. but however we address you, you are always father and mother to us all, and we are your children, we are your fami family. we ask your blessing, lord, upon the counselors and clergy and the care givers among us, they have great passion for what they do. when everyone does their passi passion, we arrive at compassion and we thank you. we know that you're most aware of their needs. they, too, become tired and sometimes close to burning o out, how much we need one another. when you call jeremiah or amos or baruk and all of your precious apostles and prophets, they hedged at first, but each time in turn they gave their yes and they followed you, knowing that you were always among them, always supporting them. they were conduits for your eyes and your ears and your voice and your hands. they were the clay knowing that you always were the potter and they were resilient in your hands. when jesus felt the need to get away for some respite himself, he went to the mountains or into the wilderness or out to the seashore. and the great numbers of people in need always followed. tired and drained, as he was, he looked on them with compassi compassion. anoint all your people, lord, all of those who minister to you as they minister to one another and especially this week as they minister to the body, mind and spirit, to the whole community of sandy hook in newtown, a model for the nation, a model for the world. and we thank you for the world suppo support, calling, e-mailing, texting their love and their commitment to be one with us. use them, lord. take the passion that each one has and transform it totally, completely, into your spirit of compassion. and we ask this all, amen, amen. >> a community of different favorites, grieving together in this interfaith vigil. next, jack tanner, minister of newtown christian church reading scripture, romans 8, then we'll hear from a local government official, first select woman patricia lodra, connecticut governor dan malloy will then introduce president obama for his remarks to this crowd. again, you're looking live at newtown, high school in newtown, connecticut and this school tragedy that they're dealing with after friday's shooting. shooting. newtown is a place that loves children above all. families move to newtown because we are a caring and loving community. we are also a place that has great pride in our schools, pride that propels the students in those schools with their outstanding teachers and administrators through high achievement and great personal worth. the horror that was visited upon our sandy hook school was not deserved. it is the angry and desperate act of a confused young man. there is no blame to be laid on us, but there is a great burden and a great challenge that we emerge whole, that these families devastated by unspeakable harm know and trust that we love them and will do everything we can to help them heal. i know that newtown will prevail that we will not fall to acts of violence. it is a defining moment for our town, but it does not define us. we are newtown, a special and caring place. we are defined by acts of courage, by acts of love and by our continuing commitment and love for our children and families. it is my pleasure, ladies and gentlemen, to present to you governor dan malloy. [applaus [applause] >> pat, thank you for all of the great work that you have done for this community in the last three days, to the police chief and to the superintendent of schools, thank you for your great service as well, to all of the first responders, thank you. when i came in to the hall, one of the first songs to be played on the piano was "amazing grace" which is fitting for any number of reasons. it's become an anthem for first responders. it has great words. it also speaks of the power of faith. amazing grace was written by a former sea captain engaged in the-- >> we're going to take a brief pause as we listen to the connecticut governor dan malloy to bring into the full fox broadcast network. when we are called upon, dare i say required-- ♪ >> good evening from washington, i'm bret baier, we're just minutes away from president obama speaking in newtown, connecticut as the nation joins that community in mourning after the killing of 26 people inside sandy hook, elementary school, 20 of them children, ages six and seven years old. speaking now, connecticut governor dan malloy, who will introduce president obama. let's listen in. >> to survive that which has befallen this community, these families, these spouses. that which has happened and is unimaginable and unthinkable and was never, we thought, intended to be visited upon us here in connecticut or in newtown, or in sandy hook. i choose to think about the fact that in the coming days we will officially enter winter. and that is always to be followed by the spring. let me assure you that in winter each time i see the beginning of a snowfall, i will be thinking of those 27 souls lost just a few days ago. each time the day gets a little longer, i will think and dream of the lives that might have been and the lives that were so full of grace. and when the flowers start to come out of the ground and when they rise up, i will know that we are in touch with those that we've lost in the last few days. we will go on. we will find strength. faith is a gift, as is our ability to support one another in our greater community. to all of you, i extend my most profound condolences on behalf of all of your fellow citizens for what you have seen, what you have witnessed and what you have personally experienced. we will move on. we will never forget. we will in many ways be made stronger for what has transpired. and we will get better. we are blessed today to have with us the president of the united states, who upon being with pat and i just a little while ago, said that the most difficult day of his presidency was friday when he heard the news of that which had befallen this community. i assured him that connecticut, newtown, and sandy hook are strong and i welcomed him on your behalf to our community. i now introduce the president of the united states. [applause] [applause] >> thank you. thank you, governor. to all the families, first responders, the community of newtown, clergy, guests, scripture tells us do not lose hea heart. though outwardly, we are wasting away inwardly we are being renewed day by day. for light momentary troubles are achieving eternal glory that far outweighs them all and we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen. what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. for we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from god. an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. we gather here in memory of 20 beautiful children and six remarkable adults. they lost their lives in a school that could have been any school. in a quiet town full of good and decent people, that could be any town in america. here in newtown, i come to offer the love and prayers of a nation. i am very mindful that mere words cannot match the depths of your sorrow, nor can they heal your wounded hearts. i can only hope it helps for you to know that you're not alone in your grief. that our world, too, has been torn apart. that all across this land of ours we have wept with you. we've pulled our children tight. and you must know that whatever measure of comfort we can provide, we will provide it. whatever portion of sadness that we can share with you to ease this heavy load, we will gladly bear it. newtown, you are not alone. as these difficult days have unfolded, we've alyou've also id us, stories of strength and resolve and sacrifice. we know that when danger arrived in the halls of sandy hook elementary, the school staff did not flinch, they did not hesitate. dawn hochsprung, mary sherlach, vicky soto, lauren russeau, rachel devino and ann marie murphy, they all responded as we all hoped we might respond in such terrifying circumstances, with courage and with love, giving their lives to protect the children in their care. we know that there were other teachers who barricaded them selves inside classrooms and kept steady through it all. and reassured their students by saying, wait for the good guys, they're coming. show me your smile. and we know that good guys came, the first responders who raced to the scene, helping those in harm's way to safety and comfort those in need, holding at bay their own shock and their own trauma because they had a job to do. and others needed them more. and then, there were the scenes of the school children, helping one another, holding each other, dutifully following instructions the way that young children sometimes do. one child even tried to encourage a grownup by saying, i know karate, so, it's okay, i'll lead the way out. as a community, you've inspired us, newtown. in the face of indescribable violence, in the face of unconscionable evil, you've looked out for each other, you've cared for one another and you've loved one another. this is how newtown will be remember remembered. and with time and god's grace, that love will see you through. through. but we as a nation, we are left with some hard questions. you know, someone once described the joy and anxiety of parenthood as the equivalent of having your heart outside of your body all the time. walking around. with their very first cry, this most precious, vital part of ourselves, our child, is suddenly exposed to the world, possible mishaps or malice. and every parent knows there's nothing we will not do to shield our children from harm. and yet, we also know that with that child's very first step, and each step after that, they're separating from us. that we won't, that we can't always be there for them. they'll suffer sickness and setbacks and broken hearts, and disappointments. and we learn that our most important be job is to give them what they need to become self-reliant and capable and resilient ready to face the world without fear. and we know we can't do this by ourselves. it comes as a shock at a certain point when you realize no matter how much you love these kids, you can't do it by yourself. that this job of keeping our children safe and teaching them well is something we can only do together. with the help of friends and neighbors, the help of a community, and the help of a nation. and in that way, we come to realize that we bear a responsibility for every child because we're counting on everybody else to help look after ours. and we're all parents. that they're all our children. this is our first task, caring for our children. it's our first job. if we don't get that right we don't get anything right. that's how, as a society, we will be judged. and by that measure, can we truly say as a nation that we're meeting our obligations. can we honestly say that we're doing enough to keep our childr children, all of them, safe from harm? can we claim as a nation that we're altogether there, letting them know that they're loved and teaching them to love in return? can we say that we're truly doing enough to give all the children of this country the chance they deserve to live out their lives in happiness and with purpose? i've been reflecting on this the last few days and if we're honest with ourselves, the answer is no. we're not doing enough. and we will have to change. since i've been president, this is the fourth time we have come together to comfort a grieving community torn apart by mass shootings. fourth time we've hugged survivors, the fourth time we've consoled the families of victims. and in between there have been an endless series of deadly shootings across the country, almost daily reports of victims, many of them children. in small towns and big cities across america, victims who much of the time their only fault was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. we can't tolerate this anymore. these tragedies must end. and to end them, we must change. we will be told that the causes of such violence are complex and that is true. no single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society, but that can't be an excuse for inaction. surely, we can do better than this. if there's even one step we can take to save another child or another parent or another town from the grief that's visited tucson and aurora and oak creek and newtown, and communities from columbine to blacksberg before that, surely we have an obligation to try. in the coming weeks i'll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens from law enforcement to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this because what choice do we have? we can't accept events like this as routine. are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too ha hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year, somehow the price of our freedom? in all the world's religions, so many of them represented here today, start with a simple question. why are we here? what gives our life meaning? what gives our acts purpose? we know our time on this earth is fleeting. we know that we will each have our share of pleasure and pain, that even after we chan chase after some earthly goal, whether it's wealth, power, fame or simple comfort, we will in some fashion fall short of what we had hoped. we know that no matter how good our intentions we'll all stumble sometimes in some way. we'll make mistakes. we'll experience hardships. and even when we're trying to do the right thing, we know that much of our time will be spent groping through the darkness, so often unable to discern god's heavenly plans. there's only one thing we can be sure of and that is the love that we have for our children, for our families, for each other. the warmth of a small child's embrace, that is true. the memories we have of them, the joy that they bring, the wonder we see through their eyes, that fierce and boundless love we feel for them, a love that takes us out of ourselves and binds us to something larger, we know that's what matters. we know we're always doing right when we're taking care of them. when we're teaching them well. when we're showing acts of kindness. we don't go wrong when we do that. that's what we can be sure of. and that's what you, the people of newtown, have reminded us. and that's how you've inspired us. you remind us what matters. that's what should drive us forward in everything we do. for as long as god sees fit to keep us on this earth. let the little children come to me, jesus said, and do not hinder them, for such belongs the kingdom of heaven. charlotte, daniel, olivia, josephine, anna, dylan, madeline, katherine, chase, jesse, james, grace, e mcmilie, caroline, noah, jessica, benjamin, alison, god has called them all home, for those of us who remain, let us find the strength to carry on and make our country worth think of their memory. may god bless and keep those we've lost in his heavenly place. may he grace those we still have with his holy comfort and may he bless and watch over this community and the united states of america. >> . >> bret: president obama speaking just under 18 minutes in the role of consoler in chief, saying newtown, you are not alone. the president mentioned teachers who didn't make it out of sandy hook school, and just as he read the names the sound of weeping in the auditorium. the president said decisions lie ahead and not doing enough, and he steered clear of policy prescriptions, but said we need to change. tonight he focused on healing, healing newtown and a nation shocked by an unthinkable crime. i'm bret baier in washington, for those of you on fox broadcasting, we return you to regularly scheduled programming, continuous updates on foxnews.com and on fox news channel our coverage continues right now. . complete bay area news coverage starts right now. this is ktvu channel 2 news at 5:00. good evening and thanks for joining us for this special late edition edition of ktvu channel 2 news. you have been watching live coverage of a very emotional interfaith vigil in newtown, connecticut and moments ago, president obama addressed those gathered to express the country's sorrow. >> i come to offer the love and prayers of a nation. i am very mindful that mere words cannot match the depths of your sorrow, nor can they heal your wounded hearts. i can only hope it helps for you to know that you are not alone in your grief. >> mr. obama was among several speakers at the memorial, most of them newtown's religious leaders. today connecticut state police released some new information on how they say adam lanza carried out friday's mass shooting. investigators say lanza shot up the locked door of the school in order to gain access and once inside they say he shot the principal and the school psychologist before opening fire on all of those children. police say lanza had four weapons, two handguns, abassault rifle as well as shotgun found inside his car. >> the weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a bushmaster ar15 assault-type weapon. it had high capacity magazines, and in addition, to that, the subject had in his possession a glock 10 mm., 6 hour 9 mm. and all weapons had multiple magazines an additional ammunition. >> police say he also confirmed the identity of adam lanza's mother, her cause of death is listed as homicide and adam lanza's cause of death is listed as suicide. the family of little 6-year-old noah pozner has planned his funeral for tomorrow. he called the first grader bright, inquisitive and gent well a bit of a rambunctious streak. noah's twin sister and older sister survived friday's shooting. it has been a weekend of mourning in newtown, connecticut, the small community is dotted with memorials, and with many stories of grief from those who knew the victims and those who did not. our team coverage begins with john sasaki from newtown. >> reporter: it's now been two and a half days since this horrendous events unfolded in sandy hook and the love and support from residents and surrounding communities and from other parts the country are growing exponentially. metroplexes all
dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with the news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of what i consider to be promotional movies about the life of hillary clinton, when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential right-hand, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates for running for president on the republican side of the aisle? >> priebus isn't alone on this. maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded his point has some rationality. if you think rationate is what drives priebus and the party, think again. he's wading into an ideology that he's even warned against, party isolationism. speaking to andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. this is that plan. >> charm, what do you think about a talk radio debate, where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hannity, and mark levin, and we interview some of the candidates. the bay i think would like that. >> listen, i actually think that's a very good idea. >> here's the irony. he led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it? by shutting out news outlets and retremendousing for a your fox news echo chamber michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh action and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yeah, some form of it, to be honest. >> why? >> but will et me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there's no body of evidence to prove your point, so there's nothing beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who, like chuck todd and others, would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta, and i think it does set up an argument that may come back to bite, point one. point two -- how do you infers this with the candidates sum 2015 when they're crap to get on the board and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say, you know what? if you hold a debate and do your thing, that's fine, we just won't cover it. i think this is premature, though i get what is being done here and probably would do some form of it, but not now. >> i used the words echo chamber. i was thinking of the wen dar morning after 2012's election when those were paying attention only to drudge, fox radio and -- it was like a truck had hit hem. >> because they were only talking to each other and only watching fox news, and only listens to rush. >> won't this be more of that? >> i think it is more of that. i think on the one hand you have this alleged autopsy and this desire to reach out to more people, michael, but of this desire to go insular, control the terms of the debate. sadly it seems like mr. priebus decided the last long campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, people didn't like what they saw. this time around, i would think a lot of new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience, certainly chris christie if he were to run would not abide by a ditch cnn or ditch nbc strategy. >> some people in the party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that com spires with the white house. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> you know, you can look back to the last primary season and wonder whether there was collusion between some reporters. when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted action between a former democratic operative and basically the president's campaign -- >> well, are you alleges that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying it makes you wonder. he's also said publicly he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> i love the part "it makes you wonder" it reminds me of "the house of cards" the francis underwood version, you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment that republicans at the national, even the local level receive by the media, whether it's in print or tv or radio, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked, and i appreciate people focusing just on fog,. >> i think we have to be careful here. it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations, doing this type of self-promotional, on behalf of hillary clinton, at the beginning of what could be a hotly contested open seat, so i i think it's a legitimate point to be made. >> michael, i would understand it, more, joan, i will put this to you, i would understand is more if the negative was attributal to the questioning by partisan members selfthe media, but it wasn't. often it was the audience, often it was questions from fox news that elicited they responses. >> that brought out the crazy. >> rand paul sounds paranoid. when the contraception -- that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine. cede ception was a big part of the cycle, it wasn't partisan questions from the media that made the gop debates the most memorable. it's whether a gay soldier asked a question. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq i had to lie who i was, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is, under one of your presidencies, do you question to circumstance come vent -- >> yeah, i would stay any type of sexual activity -- i think it tries to inject -- and the military's job is to do one thing. that's to defend our country, to the ability to do so. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> similarly, i'm not going to show this, but it was another fox debate. i'm sure you remember the 10 to 1 question, that was bret behr who threw that into play. you won't eradicate those questions. >> i think a lot of people were surprised how reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012, so there's no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance, there should be openness for sure, there's no sanctuary, so you're going to get the tough questions. i think the candidates know that going into this, which again is more of a play on my estimation that rallies the base, as reince says on "morning joe" he's being approached from people saying it's about time. i think it's too soon, proo premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product will be. at the end of the day, how much of it will you control when you have seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. >> let me ask this question of joan wallish. might it impact the ploukt? and i raise this thinking of "zero dark thirty." there was a hue and cry this would be a valentine to president obama, the catherine bigelow movie. there was a delay in the release, and when it came out president obama was like a ten or 20-second figment in a steve croft interview and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might they have an impact on the way that hillary clinton is treated, by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" who is kind of hostile to the kind of corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. there's no evidence that either of these projects is biased in her favor, but reince priebus, i just want to say as a woman, i thought the way they treated mika this morning, i would never let you personally moderate a debate, coming on to a show where she's a co-host and putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think it's kind of mean and has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. there was something off about it. >> i appreciate you both being here. thank. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell, his campaign chief just got caught on tape saying this, quote -- between you and me i'm holding my nose for two years, because what we're going here will be a big benefit to rand in to 2016. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you, it's no wonder your safe seat just got tossed into the -- and the calls for bob filner's removal from office are growing louder. we have his former deputy campaign manager, who counts herself among him victims. plus one former texas republican official has come up with a new reason to oppose obama care. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. finally let me finish tonight between the important difference between a crime and hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. but, dad, you've got... 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[ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away, but we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead. it's clinton's 62, and vice president at 8%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. christie the early favorite at 21%, rand paul in second with 16%, and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. " yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. ♪ don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom! don't tell mom. okay. don't tell mom. don't tell mom. don't tell mom? yeah. the best stories you'll ever tell start with, don't tell." don't tell dad. start yours in the new santa fe. from hyundai. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a conversation between an arden ron paul activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to ron paul's granddaughter oversaw his election campaign, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this which benton complies on the tame. a recording has beensh in which benting in hi own words describes how he feels about his current job. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. doing here will be a big benefit to rand. so that's my long vision. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said, quote, it is truly sick that one would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell and i'm is 00% -- being selected is one of the great mondayoring of my life, and i look forward to victory in november of 2014. if he has to hold his know to work for him to benefit rand paul's all but certain presidential ambitions, what does that say? the leader is in a statistic cal dead heat. secretary of state allison lunder gain-grimes, but also caught in the cross hairs on a challenge from matt biven. joining me to discuss this, sam stein and democratic strategist markie omero. what is the net of this? might there be blow-back? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turned into a national story. you know, that's unfortunate for him. i feel badly that happened. i think ultimately voters, though, are going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out, but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what's wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction clearly saying in his own words, our number one goal is to try to defeat president obama. and so i think a lot of voters have justhood it with washington as usual. there's no one who demonstrates that as much as mitch mcconned. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited is a symptom rather than a cause. >> sam stein, usual mitch mcconnell, i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> uh, no, you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over was to give him the type of cachet with rand and ron paul? as you mentioned his's ron paul's son-in-law. so you cannot just ease will i toss him aside. it is damaging to the extent that matt biven cannot just turn around and say, listen, even conservatives, even the -- on own campaign admit they have to hold their nose to work for the guy, so why not vote for the true conservative? that's where it becomes damages. what are you hoping for? doubt mcconnell to survive a primary process, or do you want the tea party candidate to be victorious? >> i think there are pros an cons for both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand and that's one that's weakened, one in a continues to be unpopular and vulnerable, but he'll be likely better funded for a tea party than biven. i think biven has a clear opening, as sam said, to try to make news of this and try to keep the story around. look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it, she has a lot of strong support, a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. i think she'll be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, is how do republican primarily voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. you know, i hate to come on the show show and say i don't know things. my suspicion is that opinions of mitch mcconnell are bakley baked in the cake. the guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. kentuckiens like him. but if you had the mind-set, this reinforced the theory. if el thought he was a good politician, i don't know if this necessarily dissuedes you. >> the strange this ink to me, at least, listening to this conversation, is that it was not among friends over a beer, where you might be inclined to say, my god, i'm holding my nose for the next two years. there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion, and then he drops this bomb like, play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that. you can shouldn't speak like that in any real company except for maybe your mom, your therapist or spouse unless you're read,for it toss out. the political community in ka is ultimately pretty small, so it's a mistake and probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you real it the same way? i heard you chuckle. >> what's odd is this is the second time i believe that a surrepetitious recording has leaked. the first time was the strategy sessions for dealing with the potential ashley judd candidacy. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. it suggests there's people in the republican party, perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business, where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that which they're saying is being recorded. >> for better or worse, everybody -- candidates, operatives, staff, interns -- just assume you're on camera being miked at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> i keep waiting for b-roll, which shows him smiling. i swear i don't think i've ever seen an image where the imagine is anything but, you know, frumpy in his appearance. >> yes, he does tent to have the same facial expression throughout it all. the initial statement from the campaign is they're tilling i by jesse. he's going to try to turn bad lemon into bad lemonade, i guess. >> thank you both. hey, don't forget, you can listen to my radio program weekbay mornings from . a reason to oppose obama care? she says it's the work of satan, this is "hardball"," place for politics. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. 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[ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food. it's oscar mayer. i'm julia boorstin with your cnbc market wrap. the dow jumped 27 points, knead dab ended higher by 15 points. more americans filed new claims for unemployment benefits last week. jobless claims rose by 5,000. groupon shares soared 21% after a better than expected earnings report, and naming cofounder eric lefkofsky as the new ceo. the cbs blackout is now in its seventh day. that's it from cnbc, first in big worldwide. now back to "hardball." we're back, 13 women have come forward with charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner, but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yesterday. two female veterans said he made sexual advances at them last year, the truly shocking thing is where exactly filner met them. at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning, one of the women eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. we trusted him, and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> it just adds to the list of shocking behavior by the san diego democrat. >> i would have to squirm a little, and just as recently as a couple months ago this happened. i turned and he just slobbered down my chin. i was so violated and so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left. i was the last one in the room, and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, got very close to me, and ran hi finger up my cheek, and he whispered, do you want a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me. i pointed out that he asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the emballotsed mayor has entered a two-week behave program, but has refused to step down, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time-consuming recall process. she too says he was harassed, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt." laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fund-raising functions, and i was at a formal dinner when i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him, one of the guests commented i should be appreciated for my effort and i had worked my behind on. he proceeded to tell me to turn around action which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laughed and said, nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction? >> i think they were in shock, and i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association -- reactions you might associate with the situation come later, and so i would imagine that that was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there's strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are coming forward. why didn't you come forward sooner? >> well, i do you wanted the incident, demanded an apology and asked this not happened to other women at the time, but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, you're not sure he's doing this to other people, and furthermore you're not sure you'll be taken seriously. it's extraordinarily intimidating. the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former -- and dean at san diego state, assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> was it nevertheless known among people who are close to him, hey, this guy is creepy and you've got to be careful? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think some of his behavior has devolved and become more pervasive and more intense over the years, so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolate. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everyone had a suspicion, but i don't -- obviously we're all finding out now. he spend 20 years as a member of congressivities last we're hillary rosin told cnn that his behave was no secret to some people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members who said this guy has been -- that everybody thought he was a little keepy. >> dade weigel wrote that his ultra-slow-motion downfall tells us how long you can get away with being a creep in politics. is the tolerance for mild creepyness is quite high, because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up. karen, as i've watched this unfold, i've been thinking about sandusky. if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. it's hard to believe that for 20 years in the house, he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was, and again, probably there people didn't come forward, because they weren't sure, how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? >> part of this makes me want to remind people, is this is why it's so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed, because that time and time again, from the sandusky case to military sexual assault cases that we've been hearing more and more about, what did the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. they were afraid it won't be believed, right? it's interesting the i can tell us there's a conversation that i and many of my women friends that we get from our parents when we go to the work world telling you to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said, if it does, we'll believe you, but i think we don't have enough systems and enough, you know, attitudinal changes to make sure that people know. this is zero-tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute, it's not funny. it's got to be a zero-tolerance policy. >> how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized to come forward? i want i think you give them a means to do so. there's statute of limitations, sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how can you promote a work environment where there doesn't feel there will be a consequence to do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage women to come forward and show them you will not be vilified. >> last month he announced he would be entering a two-week therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behaviorivity engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. this is an arduous process, though, now to get rid of him if he won't go. i certainly hope people -- there are a number of different efforts. ished sigh as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy as got to go. where that mean the democratic party can help make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. against, this is unacceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he rae reading from a script and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two weeks? are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood, i went to rehab and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink, i get from him what i get from weiner, this seems a personal that would rather by drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not at all. >> but it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. there's no mechanism in his brain that says -- that is a sickness. >> i'm going to say, karen, if i could interrupt. it's even beyond that. i think he knows exactly what he's doing. he laughs when he does it, he enjoys -- and ultimately this is about power and the abuse of power, and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos or other folks, it's about abusing that power. so he knows that he's doing it. >> that's why i know it's so important that we're now having they conversations, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be believed if they come forward, but also creating a climate where it is absolutely nothing tolerated, because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. illustrates laura, knowing this personality away -- i take it you're not surprised that he refuse toss go silently into that night? >> i'm not surprised, not surprised at all. the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. just the sad fact of the matter. we do need him to resign as well, and so the ball is in his court, but i think there's things we can do to put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him, and my hope is, whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is that he's going to choose to resign, that's because of the public shaming, because of his pocketbook, i can't really say, but i hope he reaches that tipping point. >> thank you both for being here. up next, what do you think of when you see this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy, because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. being sixteen, alex thinks he's invincible. his dad knows he's not. that's why dad got allstate accident forgiveness. it starts the day you sign up. 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[ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. welcome back to "hardball" symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. they filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gad stone flag. it was a symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years it's been flown by some attendees at tea party rallies. though it's certainly not a formal symbol, it's in march shortly after a local veterans group replaced the tattered american flag with a new american flag and a city officials ordered it taken down. the troyic association filed a federal lawsuit. moiz valencia is a citizen volunteer, he actually purchased and gave the the gadsden flag to the veteran's group. peter applebaum is the our town columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. moises, are you a tea party guy? >> no. i've never been a member of the tea party. i'm not affiliated with any political group of this nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. why this flag? >> i always liked the gadsden flag because to me it symbolizes our human unalienable rights that we as americans and humans possess. it spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of. and i'm a historian of american history. so that's why. >> to whom, if anyone were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor, norm brampson. he has had a long history of disrespecting our veterans here in new rochelle and also our military history. he has leveled fort slocumb that we had in new rochelle. that's completely gone. the armory is our last remaining bit of history, and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's very bad condition. and they have done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure it's in as poor shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord. all across the country people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what is the big picture that you see? >> the big picture is just how polarized we have become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute. if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. for a lot of people now there is a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment, and then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience there. >> have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, connecticut, rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. but now it's part of the american culture and political wars. >> moises, the armory is municipal space. it was deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do, what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights. and if we have a dialogue, we can see it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. 5-2, along party lines. the ds said get rid of it, and the rs said keep it. >> whether it's government speech or whether it's private speech, it's a city-owned armory and a city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this certainly government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't alou. >> you obviously think there is an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> buzz of the fact that the veteran's organization is charted by the city and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. and they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue, and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same kind of passion that i heard on the airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country, and it has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so yeah, people are very passionate about it. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, fight for the right to take it back. >> absolutely. there are a lot of aggrieved people in america. and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. it tends to be conservatives that use the flag. maybe liberals should too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thanks for writing about it. >> thank you so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. clients are always learning more to make their money do more. 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(announcer) scottrade... ranked "highest in customer loyalty for brokerage and investment companies." i don'without goingcisions to angie's list first. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic! find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. let me finish tonight with that horrific footage of a fight on a florida school bus that made news this week. i'm sure you've seen or heard about the three 15-year-olds who beat a 13-year-old, gave him two black eyes and a broken arm. there is a debate now raging about the pictures you're looking at, some wondering if this was a hate crime because they watched three african-american perpetrators beating a white teen. but the motivation here seems to have been not race, but the 13-year-old snitched on one of the 15-year-olds for drugs. but there was a hate crime this week that was in news, and that came not on a school bus, but in a baseball field. it happened at mcu park in brooklyn, which is home to the met-affiliated brooklyn cyclones. a statue there depicts jackie robinson and peewee reece both playing for the dodgers in 1947or on crossley field. a particularly harsh day for robinson. robinson endured racist taunts, jeers and death threats that would have broken the spirit of a lesser man. some idiot added the n word and a was stika and a heil. i'm not a fan of calling something a hate crime. i think we open pandora's box when we ascribe punishment based on motivation, meaning what is in a american's head. but this is a clear-cut case. the defacing of the jackie robinson statue should be treated differently say than the arrest of a teen who tags or spray paints his name on a subway. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, michael. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, the gop created a monster, and it's coming back to haunt them. the venom, the hate, and the ugliness we saw at tea party rallies four years ago are back today. only this time they're turning on their own. here is how. republicans, yes, republicans are being confronted at town hall meetings over obama care and a government shutdown threat. >> i think even if you do not believe in your heart number one it will pass, or number two it's appropriate, you need to represent us. and we're tired of having to come down on this again and again. >> let me talk to you a little bit about the consequences of what a complete government shutdown is.
bashing hillary, and rallying the base all at the same time. it's the far right trifecta and priebus knows it. here's his plan. he's plan to shut them out of the primary process if they don't their hillary films even though they haven't written or filmed them yet. this morning on "morning joe" he dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with nbc's news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of making what i consider to be promotional movies. >> right. >> about the life of hillary clinton when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential run, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates running for president on the republican side of the aisle? it's ridiculous. >> priebus isn't alone on this one either. liberal columnist maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded that his point has some rationality to it. but if you think rationality is what drives priebus and the party, think again. priebus is wading dangerously into an ideology which even he has warned against. that would be party isolationism. and here is the proof. speaking to conservative radio host andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. and this is that plan. >> chairman, what do you think about a talk radio debate where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hadn't hannity and we interview some of the candidates. because the base i think would like that. >> listen, i don't think -- i actually think that's a very good idea. >> now, here is the irony. priebus led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it, by shutting out news outlets and retreating to your own fox news echo chamber? if he gets his way, it isn't new voices that the party will be hearing and reaching just their own. michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh is editor of salon, and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yes, some severe thunderstorm of it, to be honest with you. >> why? >> let me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there is no body of evidence to prove your point. and so there is nothing to really beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who like chuck todd and others would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta. and i think it really does set up an argument that may come back to bite. point one. point two, how do you enforce this with the candidates come 2015 when they're scrapping to get on the board, and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say you know what? if you hold a debate and you do your thing, that's fine. we just won't cover it. so they've got to be very smart. and i think this is a little bit premature, even though i get what is being done here, and probably would do some form of it if i were still chairman, but not now. >> joan, i use the words echo chamber. >> yeah. >> and what i was thinking of when i said that is the wednesday morning after 2012's election, when those who were paying attention only to drudge, only to talk radio, and only to fox, it was like a truck had hit them. they didn't see it coming. they really didn't recognize that it's a big country out there. >> because that were only talking to each other, and they were only watching fox news, and they were only listening to rush. >> is this more of that? >> i think it is more of that. on the one hand you had this alleged autopsy and the desire to reach out to more people, michael. but this desire to go really insular, talk to one another, control the terms of the debate. and sadly, it seems like mr. priebus decided the last campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, that people didn't like what they saw. but this time around, i would think a lot of these new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience. >> yeah. >> certainly chris christie if he were to run is not going to abide by a ditch cnn and ditch nbc strategy. so it's crazy. but as you said, there is no downside for him right now. >> some in the republican party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that conspires with the white house against republicans. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> well, you know, you can look back to the last primary season, and you wonder whether this was collusion between some reporters. you know, stephanopoulos asks an obscure question about griswald and birth control when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted option between a democrat operative. >> well, are you alleging that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying that it makes you wonder. and he has also said publicly that he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> hey, michael, i love the part, it makes you wonder. it reminds me in "house of cards" with that line. i saw in the original version, the francis underwood version you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment of the republicans even at the national level receive by the media whether it's in print, on tv or the raid yolk, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked. and i appreciate people focusing just on fox, because that's literally all we have in terms of conservative tv. and a handful of stations around the country on the conservative radio. and i understand that. but i think we need to be very careful here, not bite off more than there is to chew. the reality of it is it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations doing this type of self-promotional or promo on behalf of hillary clinton at the beginning of what will be a hotly contested open seat for the presidency. so i think it's a legitimate point to be made. we just need to be smart and more careful about how we talk about it. >> michael, i would understand it more. joan, i'll put this to you. >> right. >> i would understand it more if the bad, the negativity that came out of those many debates was attributable to the questioning of the partisan members of the media. but it wasn't. i've gone back and reconstructed what transpired in those debates. often it was the audience. often it was questions from fox news personalities that elicited the response. >> that brought out the crazy. no liberal media figure made poor rick perry forget which agency she was going to shut down. i think there is something overly aggressive. rand paul sounds paranoid. the big contraceptive issue that came up, that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine i believe about his views that contraception is doing something is that is not okay. >> and contraception was a big part of the 2012 cycle, especially in the senate races. let me show you something if i might. it wasn't questions from the media that made the gop debates most memorable. this is one fatal moment when a gay soldier asked a question at a fox news primary debate in 2011. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that has been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? >> yeah -- i would say any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. and "don't ask, don't tell" i think tries to inject social policy into the military, and the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country. we need to give the military, which is all volunteer, the ability to do so in a way that is most efficient and protective of men and women in uniform. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> and michael steele, similarly, i'm not going to show this. but it was another fox debate. and i think this had a lingering after effect. i think you remember the ten for one question, the ten spending cuts that was bret baier who threw that into play. by wiping out nbc's and cnn's role, you're not going to eliminate those sort of tough questions. >> that's the real kicker here in the irony for me. i think a lot of people on the right were surprised at how bret and other fox analysts and reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012. so there is no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance there should be openness for sure. there is no sanctuary. so you're going to get the tough questions. and i think the candidates know this going into this. which, again, more of play in my estimation that rallies the base. as reince said this morning, he is being approached by people who said it's about time you did this. and that's the effect they're going for. the problem is i think it's too soon. i think it's premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product is going to be. and at the end of the day, how much of this are you really going to control when you've got seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. you're not going to tell them to shut up and sit down because they won't. >> let me ask this of joan walsh. might it impact the product? and i raise this because of "zero dark thirty." you remember approaching the election there was a hew and cry. there was a delay in the release. when it came out, president obama was like a 10 or 20-second fight in a steve kroft interview on a television screen, and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might nay have an impact on the way hillary clinton is treated by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" is kind of hostile to the corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. so there is no evidence that either of these projects is biassed in her favor. but, you know, reince priebus, he also, i just want to say as a woman, i thought that the way he treated mika this morning was really kind of disturbing, telling her personally i would never let you personally moderate a debate, mika, coming on to a show where she is the co-host and really putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think he is doing something that is kind of mean and that has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. it was something off about it. >> appreciate both of your being here. michael steele, joan walsh. good to see you again. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell. his campaign chief who used to work for rand paul just got caught on tape saying between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years, because what we're doing here is going to be a big benefit to rand in 2016. that's rand as in rand paul, kentucky's other senator. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you it's no wonder your safe seat just got toss had in the toss-up column. bob filner being accused of sexual harassment. the calls for his removal are growing even louder. his former campaign manager who counts herself among his victims. plus, one official comes up with a new reason to oppose immigration. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. and finally, let me finish tonight with the important difference between a crime and a hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. so... [ gasps ] these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this cadillac srx for around $369 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year. the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away. we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead over the field, according to a new wmur university of new hampshire poll. it's clinton 62 and vice president biden at 8%. massachusetts governor deval patrick at 5%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. chris christie the early favorite at 21%. rand paul in second with 16%. and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a recording between an ardent activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to rand paul's granddaughter oversaw his presidential campaign, rand paul's election to the senate in 2010, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this? which benton implies on the tape is eminent. economicpolicyjournal.com has obtained a reporting in which benton in his own words describes how he feels about his current job. listen. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said it is truly sick that someone would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell, and i'm 100% committed to his reelection. being selected to lead his campaign is one of the great honors of my life, and i look forward to victory in november 2014. if mcconnell's own campaign manager has to hold his nose to work for him to benefit rand paul's presidential ambitions, what does that say? right now he is in a statistical dead heat or trails his opponent alison lundergan grimes. joining me to discuss this revelation and the race are "the huffington post" sam stein and democratic strategist margie omero. margie, what is the net net of this? might there be blowback that causes people to be sympathetic to this individual? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turn into a national story. and you know, that's unfortunate for him, and i feel badly that that happened. i think ultimately, voters, though are, going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out. but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? and he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what is wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction, the very clearly saying in his own words our number one goal is to try and defeat president obama. that was his stated policy goal. and so i think a lot of voters have just had it with washington as usual. and there is no one really who demonstrates washington as usual as much as mitch mcconnell. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited about him is really a symptom rather than a cause of where his troubles are going to be. >> sam stein, you are mitch mcconnell. i know this is a stretch for you. but i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> no. you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over to run the mitch mcconnell campaign was to give him the type of cache with the rand paul, ron paul crowd. he's ron paul's son-in-law. this is not someone you can easily toss to the side and dismiss because you risk offending a great swath of primary republican voters. thing is the most damaging thing to ever happen in politics. i'm not going to blow it out of proportion. but it is damaging to the extent that matt bevin, the tea party challenger can now just turn around and say hey, listen, each conservatives on mcconnell's own campaign admit that they have to hold their nose to work for the guy. so why not just vote for the true conservative in the race. i think that's where it becomes damaging. it increases that narrative that mitch mcconnell is more of an establishment guy than a paul guy. >> margie, what a democratic standpoint, what are you hoping for? who is the easier of the candidates to pick off if you're the d in this race? do you want mitch mcconnell to survive a process or the pea party to be victorious? >> thing are pros and cons to both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand, and that known brand is one that is weakened, it's one that continues to be unpopular and vulnerable. but he will likely be better fund and that a tea party than bevin, if bevin should win the primary. i think bevin has a clear opening. sam said to really try to make news of this and to keep the story around. and, look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it. she has a lot of strong support. she has a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. and i think she is going to be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, at least in the short-term, how do republican primary voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. i hate to come on a show and say i don't know about things. it remains to be seen. my suspicion are opinions of mitch mcconnell are basically baked in the cake. this guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. part of kentuckians do like him because he does bring back projects to the state. he is a very good local politician. but if you had your mind-set up that mitch mcconnell needed to be ousted because he wasn't conservative enough, this reinforces your theory. if you thought he was good politician for the state of kentucky, i don't know if this necessarily dissuades you. >> margie, listening to this conversation, this surreptitiously recorded conversation is that it was not among friends over a beer. >> yeah. >> where you might be inclined to say oh my god, i'm holding nose for the next two years there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion. and then he drops this bomb. play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's -- it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that if you don't want them to get out. you shouldn't really speak like that in any kind of real company, except for maybe your mom, your therapist, your spouse, unless you're ready for it to get out. because people talk. and the political community in kentucky and around the country is ultimately pretty small. so it's a mistake. and it probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you find it odd listening to it? i heard you chuckle as i made this comment. >> what is odd is this is the second time i believe that a surreptitious recording involving the mcconnell campaign was is leaked. the first was the potential ashley judd candidacy. i'm really curious what is going on here. this is rare to happen once. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. and it suggests that there are people within the republican party perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> and margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that what they're saying is being recorded in some form or another. >> for better or worse, everybody. candidates, operatives, staff, interns, just assume you're on camera being mic'd at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> sam, i keep waiting for there to be b roll that shows mitch mcconnell smiling. i swear i have never seen an appearance where he t man appears to be frumpy in appearance. >> my impression is they're sticking by jesse. there is not many options they have. he is going to turn bad lemons into bad lemonade i guess. >> thank you. by the way, late this afternoon, senator mcconnell and jesse benton tweeted this picture trying to make light of the whole hold your nose episode. a programing note, don't forget texas has a new reason to oppose immigration reform. she says it's the work of satan. this is "hardball," the place for politics. back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. former presidential candidate mitt romney reemerged this week with some unsolicited advice for republican voters in 2016. but will his fellow republicans listen? here is jimmy fallon's take on that last night. >> mitt romney told republicans that they need to pick a candidate for 2016 who can actually win. and republicans said yeah, wish you told us that last year. thanks a lot. next up, the former chair of the texas republican party is coming out against the senate's immigration bill. why? because she thinks it's demonic. here is kathy adams talking about that on end team talk radio. >> i think the latest nonsense i saw from the homeland security department was something like a million people that have come here on visas that we have no idea where they are. >> do you know where they're taking us with this? because they said the solution to all these lost foreigners in the country, the solution is biometric scanning. >> i do understand that. i've seen it. i've heard it. and of course we know in biblical prophesy. that is the end time that is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. that is demonic through and through that is end times prophesy there is no question about that. >> in case you were wondering, the senate immigration bill does not include the branding of immigrants. new york mayor michael bloomberg is taking the lessons of detroit's bankruptcy to heart. he cautioned that new york city could suffer a similar fate if it takes its financial well-being for granted. his warning comes, coincidentally, on an anniversary of new york's own fiscal crises in the '70s. here is a flashback to new york's last federal bailout, which was signed 35 years ago on this day in 1978. >> on the steps of city hall in new york this afternoon, president carter signed into law a bill to keep the city from going bankrupt. with this law, the federal government guarantees more than $1.5 billion of loans to the city over the next four years. the white house decided it should be done outside where it would draw a large crowd. an effort, said the white house aides, to portray firm presidential action. >> we've come a long way. up next, 13 women have now accused san diego mayor bob filner of sexual harassment. when we return, we'll meet one of his accusers. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. we're back. we're back. 13 women have now come forward with allegations of sexual harassment, groping, and other charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner. but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yet. this week two female veterans said that filner made sexual advances at them last year. the truly shocking thing is where filner met them, at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning one of the women, eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. well trusted him. and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> the latest news just adds to a list of shocking allegations of behavior by the san diego democrat. >> he would come in and try and kiss me on the lips. and i'd have to squirm to get away. and just as recently as a few months ago, this happened. and i turned, and he just slobbered down my chin. and i was so violated and i was so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left, and i was the last one in the room. and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, and he got very close to me. and he ran his finger up my cheek like this, and he whispered to me do you have a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around as a rag doll while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me was improper. i pointed out that he had asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the embattled mayor has entered a two-week behavior treatment program, but has refused to step down from office, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time consuming recall process. laura fink is a political consultant and a former deputy campaign manager for mayor filner. she too says she was harassed by him, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt" which airs weekends here on msnbc. laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fundraising functions. and i was at a formal dinner where i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him in order to do so, one of the guests commented that i should really be appreciated for my efforts and that i had worked my behind off for him. he proceeded to tell me to turn around, which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laugh and said nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction from those who were at the dinner? >> you know, i think that they were like were, in shock, and they were just looking for a way to get beyond that moment. i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association, reactions you might associate with the situation come later. and so i would imagine that it was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there is strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are now coming forward, 13 as of this particular moment. why didn't you come forward sooner? what is it about needing to see others who were similarly afflicted before everybody came forward? >> well, i documented the incident, and i demanded an apology, and i asked that this not happen to other women at the time. but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, in particular when you feel alone or you feel isolated. you're not sure that he is doing this to other people when it happens to you. and furthermore, you're not sure that you'll be taken seriously if you come forward. it's extraordinarily intimidating. and the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former navy mayor of san diego, a dean at san diego state and a prominent businesswoman assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> but was it nevertheless known among people who were close to him, hey, this guy is creepy, and you've got to be careful when you're around him? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think that some of his behavior has devolved, and it's become more pervasive and more intense over the years. so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolation. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everything had a suspicion, but i don't, you know, obviously we're all finding out now. >> filner spent 20 years as a member of congress. last week hilary rosen told cnn his behavior was no secret to people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members and former members who said that this guy has kind of been this way all along. that everybody thought that he was a little creepy. >> to that point, slate's david weigel wrote filner's ultra slow motion downfall tells us how long you can get along with being a creep in politics. the tolerance for mild creepiness is quite high because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up with. karen, as i watch this unfold, i'm thinking about sandusky, because i said to myself, this can't be just -- if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. >> of course. >> it's hard to believe that for 20 years in who t house he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was. and people probably didn't come forward because how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? part of what this makes me want to remind people this is why it is so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed. because that time and time and time again from the sandusky case to the military sexual assault cases that we have been hearing more and more about, what do the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. >> he is the mayor, the congressman. >> they were afraid that they wouldn't be believed. it's interesting. as a woman, i can tell you that there is a conversation that i and many of my women friends, we girls get from our parents before we go off into the work world telling you this could happen to you, and to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said if it does, we believe you. but i think we don't have enough systems and enough attitudinal changes to make sure that people know this. is zero tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute. it's not funny. it's got to be a zero tolerance policy. >> laura, to karen's point, how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized such as yourself to come forward? >> well, i think that you give them a means to do so. i mean, it's a complicated issue. there are statues of limitations on lawsuits. sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how do you report this? how do you immediately address it? and how do you promote a work environment where it doesn't feel as if there will be a consequence if you do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage other women to come forward and to show them that you are not going to be vilified for this. >> last month, mayor filner apologized to the women and announced that he was entering a two-week intensive therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behavior i have engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. >> right. >> this is an arduous process, now, to get rid of him if he won't go. >> i certainly hope there are people, there are a number of different efforts. this is also i should say as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy's got to go. whether that means the democratic party can help make that happen, the people of san diego, what help do they need to make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. i hope they get enough signatures. because, again, this sun acceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he was reading from a script, and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two week, are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood oh, i went to rehab, and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink for a moment, i get from him what i get from weiner in a sense this seems to be a personality that would rather be drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not drawing it at all. >> but also it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. some of the women that you talked -- a rear admiral? my heavens. a businesswoman? there is no mechanism in his brain that says that's inappropriate. i shouldn't do that. that's a sickness. >> laura, go ahead. >> karen, if i can interrupt, just from my experience with him, it's even beyond that. i think that he knows exactly what he is doing. he laughs when he does it. he enjoys putting people in uncomfortable situations. and ultimately, this is about power and the abuse of power. and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos. >> that's right. >> or other folks, it's about abusing that power. and so he knows that he is doing it. >> and that's part of why it's so important, again, is we're having these conversations. now that some of this stuff is getting out on the table, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be believed if they come forward. but also creating a climate where it is absolutely not tolerated. because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. >> laura, knowing this personality the way that you have, from having worked with him in the past, i take it you're not surprised that he refuses to go silently into that night. >> i'm not surprised. i'm not surprised at all. and the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline to get the signatures. it's going to require a herculean effort. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. it's just the sad fact of the matter. we really do need him to resign as well. and so -- the ball is in his court. but i think there are things we can do to put pressure on him. i think that's part of -- the lawsuit will put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him. and my hope is whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is he is going to choose to resign. and that might be because of the public shaming. that might be because of his pocketbook. one can't really say. but my hope is that he reaches that tipping point. >> well, thank you both for being here. thank you, laura fink, thank you, karen finney. up next, what do you think of when you she this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer. ♪ this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this all-new cadillac ats for around $299 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. of the states that barack obama carried in both 2008 and 2012, 11 have republican governors whose terms end this year or next. three of those governors stand out as the most vulnerable. florida's rick scott, maine's paul lepage and tom corbett of my home state of pennsylvania. democrats have strong candidates in all three races, and those state mace well present the best chances for democrats to win back governorships in 2014. we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. in new richelle, new york, a veterans group filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gadsden flag. the yellow flag with its rattlesnake and phrase don't tread on any was a symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years the gadsden flag has been flown by attendees at tea party rallies. the flag has become associated with the tea party in some quarters. in march shortly after a local veterans group replaced the tattered american flag with a new american flag and a gadsden flag flying underneath it, city officials ordered it taken down. in response, the patriotic association of new rochelle filed a federal lawsuit. moses is a citizen volunteer with the save our armory committee. he actually purchased and gave the gadsden flag to the veterans group. peter is the "our town" columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. are you a tea party guy? >> i've never been a member of the tea party, not affiliated with any political group of that nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. >> i've always liked the gadsden flag. to me, it was something that spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of and i'm a historian of american history. that's why. >> to whom, if anyone, were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor. if there was any message to be sent, the mayor has had a long history of disrespecting the veterans in new rochelle and also our military history. the armory in new rochelle is our last bit of remaining history. and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's in very bad condition. and they've done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure that it's in as poor of shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord all across the country. people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what's the big picture that you see? >> the big picture is how polarized we've become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute over this, but rightly or wrongly, if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. >> right. >> for a lot of people, there's a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern in old city, philadelphia, close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience. >> right, there have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, in connecticut, in rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue that, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. now it's part of the american culture and political -- >> the armory is municipal space. it's deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association, flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do. what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that, you know, we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights and if we have a dialogue, we can see that it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. your point of polarization. 5-2. the ds said get rid of it, the rs said keep it. >> right. the legal question will come down to something that has very little to do with the meaning of the flag which is whether it's government speech, whether it's private speech. it's a city-owned armory and city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this is essentially government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't allow. >> you obviously think there's an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> yes. because of the fact that the veterans organization is chartered by the city, and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of a reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same sort of passion that i heard on the airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country and has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so, yeah, people are very passionate. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, you know, fight for the right to take it back. >> well, absolutely. you know, because i was thinking, there are a lot of aggrieved people in america, and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. conservatives use this flag, maybe liberals should, too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thank you for writing about it. >> thanks so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. let me finish tonight with that horrific footage of a fight on a florida school bus that made news this week. i'm sure you've seen or heard about the three 15-year-olds who beat a 13-year-old, gave him two black eyes and a broken arm. there is a debate now raging about the pictures you're looking at, some wondering if this was a hate crime because they watched three african-american perpetrators beating a white teen. but the motivation here seems to have been not race, but the 13-year-old snitched on one of the 15-year-olds for drugs. but there was a hate crime this week that was in news, and that came not on a school bus, but in a baseball field. it happened at mcu park in brooklyn, which is home to the met-affiliated brooklyn cyclones. a statue there depicts jackie robinson and pee wee reese both playing for the dodgers in 1947 on cincinnati's crosley field. a particularly harsh day for robinson. the description reads in part -- robinson endured racist taunts, jeers and death threats that would have broken the spirit of a lesser man. some idiot added the n word and a swastika and the word heil. i'm not a fan of calling something a hate crime. i think we open pandora's box when we ascribe punishment based on motivation, meaning what is in a person's head. but this is a clear-cut case. the defacing of the jackie robinson statue should be treated differently say than the arrest of a teen who tags or spray paints his name on a subway. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from washington. i'm ezra klein sitting in for the one and the only christopher l. hayes. tonight on "all in," nuclear states, russia and the u.s., own 94% of the world's nuclear weapons. yes, 94% was that number. which makes this current spat a bit more tense, right? also tonight the fight over obama care takes a recess. the summer of the angry anti-obama care town hall is back. but unlike last time this story played out, it is republicans who are feeling the heat. plus why the federal governmeee
continues his attack on nbc and cnn for upcoming projects about hillary clinton. and why wouldn't he? this issue has everything that republicans could ever dream of, bashing hillary, and rallying the base all at the same time. it's the far right trifecta and priebus knows it. here's his plan. he's plan to shut them out of the primary process if they don't their hillary films even though they haven't written or filmed them yet. this morning on "morning joe" he dismissed the counter argument by nbc that the entertainment division has nothing to do with nbc's news division. >> the fact is i cannot have companies that are in the business, whether it be nbc entertainment or whoever is making the decisions, i cannot have companies in the business of making what i consider to be promotional movies. >> right. >> about the life of hillary clinton when at the same time we know that her people are gearing up for a presidential run, and then i'm going to bring those people in to depose the candidates running for president on the republican side of the aisle? it's ridiculous. >> priebus isn't alone on this one either. liberal columnist maureen dowd, even our own chuck todd have conceded that his point has some rationality to it. but if you think rationality is what drives priebus and the party, think again. priebus is wading dangerously into an ideology which even he has warned against. that would be party isolationism. and here is the proof. speaking to conservative radio host andrea tanteros, he endorsed an idea to let the far right control the debates. and this is that plan. >> chairman, what do you think about a talk radio debate where maybe i get together with my buddy sean hadn't hannity and we interview some of the candidates. because the base i think would like that. >> listen, i don't think -- i actually think that's a very good idea. >> now, here is the irony. priebus led a massive gop autopsy to figure out why they got crushed in the last election. the results, the party needs to, quote, learn to appeal to more people. this is how you do it, by shutting out news outlets and retreating to your own fox news echo chamber? if he gets his way, it isn't new voices that the party will be hearing and reaching just their own. michael steele was chairman of the rnc before priebus. joan walsh is editor of salon, and both are msnbc political analysts. michael, if this were still the steele administration, would you be pursuing this path? >> yes, some severe thunderstorm of it, to be honest with you. >> why? >> let me break it down for you. i wouldn't be pursuing it now, because there is no body of evidence to prove your point. and so there is nothing to really beyond the base to rally the american people and those in the media who like chuck todd and others would say, yeah, this does not smell necessarily correct. to do it now sort of goes to your point about the trifecta. and i think it really does set up an argument that may come back to bite. point one. point two, how do you enforce this with the candidates come 2015 when they're scrapping to get on the board, and nbc offers a debate. they're going to turn it down? or point three, they say you know what? if you hold a debate and you do your thing, that's fine. we just won't cover it. so they've got to be very smart. and i think this is a little bit premature, even though i get what is being done here, and probably would do some form of it if i were still chairman, but not now. >> joan, i use the words echo chamber. >> yeah. >> and what i was thinking of when i said that is the wednesday morning after 2012's election, when those who were paying attention only to drudge, only to talk radio, and only to fox, it was like a truck had hit them. they didn't see it coming. they really didn't recognize that it's a big country out there. >> because that were only talking to each other, and they were only watching fox news, and they were only listening to rush. >> is this more of that? >> i think it is more of that. on the one hand you had this alleged autopsy and the desire to reach out to more people, michael. but this desire to go really insular, talk to one another, control the terms of the debate. and sadly, it seems like mr. priebus decided the last campaign with a lot of debates was not good for his party, that people didn't like what they saw. but this time around, i would think a lot of these new candidates would want to be talking to a larger audience. >> yeah. >> certainly chris christie if he were to run is not going to abide by a ditch cnn and ditch nbc strategy. so it's crazy. but as you said, there is no downside for him right now. >> some in the republican party don't see the media as just liberal, but as a group that conspires with the white house against republicans. this is rand paul during an interview yesterday on geraldo rivera's radio program. >> well, you know, you can look back to the last primary season, and you wonder whether this was collusion between some reporters. you know, stephanopoulos asks an obscure question about griswald and birth control when no republicans were bringing up anything about trying to have any limits on birth control. so you wonder if there was a concerted option between a democrat operative. >> well, are you alleging that george stephanopoulos was a democrat plant during the debate? >> i'm saying that it makes you wonder. and he has also said publicly that he has frequent correspondence with his friends who are still involved with the white house. >> hey, michael, i love the part, it makes you wonder. it reminds me in "house of cards" with that line. i saw in the original version, the francis underwood version you might think so, but i couldn't possibly comment. >> i'm no fan of the treatment of the republicans even at the national level receive by the media whether it's in print, on tv or the raid yolk, it doesn't matter. we know how the deck is stacked. and i appreciate people focusing just on fox, because that's literally all we have in terms of conservative tv. and a handful of stations around the country on the conservative radio. and i understand that. but i think we need to be very careful here, not bite off more than there is to chew. the reality of it is it's a legitimate point to raise concerns about whatever division in these operations doing this type of self-promotional or promo on behalf of hillary clinton at the beginning of what will be a hotly contested open seat for the presidency. so i think it's a legitimate point to be made. we just need to be smart and more careful about how we talk about it. >> michael, i would understand it more. joan, i'll put this to you. >> right. >> i would understand it more if the bad, the negativity that came out of those many debates was attributable to the questioning of the partisan members of the media. but it wasn't. i've gone back and reconstructed what transpired in those debates. often it was the audience. often it was questions from fox news personalities that elicited the response. >> that brought out the crazy. no liberal media figure made poor rick perry forget which agency she was going to shut down. i think there is something overly aggressive. rand paul sounds paranoid. the big contraceptive issue that came up, that was rick santorum talking to a christian magazine i believe about his views that contraception is doing something is that is not okay. >> and contraception was a big part of the 2012 cycle, especially in the senate races. let me show you something if i might. it wasn't questions from the media that made the gop debates most memorable. this is one fatal moment when a gay soldier asked a question at a fox news primary debate in 2011. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that has been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? >> yeah -- i would say any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. and "don't ask, don't tell" i think tries to inject social policy into the military, and the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country. we need to give the military, which is all volunteer, the ability to do so in a way that is most efficient and protective of men and women in uniform. and i believe this undermines that ability. >> and michael steele, similarly, i'm not going to show this. but it was another fox debate. and i think this had a lingering after effect. i think you remember the ten for one question, the ten spending cuts that was bret baier who threw that into play. by wiping out nbc's and cnn's role, you're not going to eliminate those sort of tough questions. >> that's the real kicker here in the irony for me. i think a lot of people on the right were surprised at how bret and other fox analysts and reporters really dogged these candidates in 2011 and 2012. so there is no sanctuary here when you're running for the presidency. there should be balance there should be openness for sure. there is no sanctuary. so you're going to get the tough questions. and i think the candidates know this going into this. which, again, more of play in my estimation that rallies the base. as reince said this morning, he is being approached by people who said it's about time you did this. and that's the effect they're going for. the problem is i think it's too soon. i think it's premature in the sense that you don't know what the final product is going to be. and at the end of the day, how much of this are you really going to control when you've got seven, eight, nine candidates vying for the nomination. you're not going to tell them to shut up and sit down because they won't. >> let me ask this of joan walsh. might it impact the product? and i raise this because of "zero dark thirty." you remember approaching the election there was a hew and cry. there was a delay in the release. when it came out, president obama was like a 10 or 20-second fight in a steve kroft interview on a television screen, and that's it. in other words, i think the concerns had an impact. might nay have an impact on the way hillary clinton is treated by cnn and nbc? >> they might. one thing about cnn, that's being directed by charles ferguson, who did "inside job" is kind of hostile to the corporate democrat position that hillary clinton represents. so there is no evidence that either of these projects is biassed in her favor. but, you know, reince priebus, he also, i just want to say as a woman, i thought that the way he treated mika this morning was really kind of zurich, telling her personally i would never let you personally moderate a debate, mika, coming on to a show where she is the co-host and really putting her down like that and challenging her objectivity. i think he is doing something that is kind of mean and that has the potential to backfire, especially when he makes it personal like that. it was something off about it. >> appreciate both of your being here. michael steele, joan walsh. good to see you again. coming up, things just got worse for mitch mcconnell. his campaign chief who used to work for rand paul just got caught on tape saying between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years, because what we're doing here is going to be a big benefit to rand in 2016. that's rand as in rand paul, kentucky's other senator. when your own campaign manager doesn't like you it's no wonder your safe seat just got toss had in the toss-up column. bob filner being accused of sexual harassment. the calls for his removal are growing even louder. his former campaign manager who counts herself among his victims. plus, one official comes up with a new reason to oppose immigration. it's the work of satan and signals the end of the world. and finally, let me finish tonight with the important difference between a crime and a hate crime. this is "hardball," the place for politics. t on the streets. 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[ male announcer ] fiber one. le. the new hampshire primary is still more than two years away. we have new polling showing where the race stands. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. first to the democrats, where hillary clinton maintains a mammoth lead over the field, according to a new wmur university of new hampshire poll. it's clinton 62 and vice president biden at 8%. massachusetts governor deval patrick at 5%. and now to the republicans, where it's more of a race. chris christie the early favorite at 21%. rand paul in second with 16%. and jeb bush in third with 10. marco rubio's lost the lead he had earlier in the year. we'll be right back. our start up is not making any money yet even though it's the best idea ever. but dress for success right? so we started using tide, bounce and downy together. it keeps our clothes looking newer longer. we'll be right back. which was back when we had corporate jobs. even if right now we can't afford...well, anything, our clothes look like a million bucks oo, maybe we could sell our clothes [ female announcer ] using tide, bounce and downy together keeps clothes looking newer fifty percent longer. great on their own. even better together we'll be right back. welcome back to "hardball." what does mitch mcconnell's own campaign manager think about working for the mcconnell campaign? an audio recording was released today of a recording between an ardent activist and jesse benton. benton who is married to rand paul's granddaughter oversaw his presidential campaign, rand paul's election to the senate in 2010, and is widely expected to play a significant role in a potential presidential campaign for rand paul in 2016. are you following all of this? which benton implies on the tape is eminent. economic policy journal.com has obtained a reporting in which benton in his own words describes how he feels about his current job. listen. >> between you and me, i'm sort of holding my nose for two years. >> benton responded with a statement today. he said it is truly sick that someone would record a private conversation i had out of kindness and use it to try to hurt me. i believe in senator mcconnell, and i'm 100% committed to his reelection. being selected to lead his campaign is one of the great honors of my life, and i look forward to victory in november 2014. if mcconnell's own campaign manager has to hold his nose to work for him to benefit rand paul's presidential ambitions, what does that say? right now he is in a statistical dead heat or trails his opponent allison leison lundergan grimes. joining me to discuss this revelation and the race are "the huffington post" sam stein and democratic strategist margie omero. margie, what is the net net of this? might there be blowback that causes people to be sympathetic to this individual? >> well, i'm sympathetic for anybody who has a private conversation turn into a national story. and you know, that's unfortunate for him, and i feel badly that that happened. i think ultimately, voters, though are, going to be looking at this race, not through the lens of what happened to this campaign manager a year out. but what do we know about mitch mcconnell? and he continues to be far to the right of where most voters are. not only that, he really demonstrates what is wrong with washington, the gridlock, the obstruction, the very clearly saying in his own words our number one goal is to try and defeat president obama. that was his stated policy goal. and so i think a lot of voters have just had it with washington as usual. and there is no one really who demonstrates washington as usual as much as mitch mcconnell. the fact that his own campaign manager can't get excited about him is really a symptom rather than a cause of where his troubles are going to be. >> sam stein, you are mitch mcconnell. i know this is a stretch for you. but i want you to put yourself into his mind and body. must you now fire this guy? >> no. you can't fire this guy. part of the reason that jesse benton was brought over to run the mitch mcconnell campaign was to give him the type of cache with the rand paul, ron paul crowd. he's ron paul's son-in-law. this is not someone you can easily toss to the side and dismiss because you risk offending a great swath of primary republican voters. thing is the most damaging thing to ever happen in politics. i'm not going to blow it out of proportion. but it is damaging to the extent that matt bevin, the tea party challenger can now just turn around and say hey, listen, each conservatives on mcconnell's own campaign admit that they have to hold their nose to work for the guy. so why not just vote for the true conservative in the race. i think that's where it becomes damaging. it increases that narrative that mitch mcconnell is more of an establishment guy than a paul guy. >> margie, what a democratic standpoint, what are you hoping for? who is the easier of the candidates to pick off if you're the d in this race? do you want mitch mcconnell to survive a process or the pea party to be victorious? >> thing are pros and cons to both for sure. certainly mitch mcconnell is a known brand, and that known brand is one that is weakened, it's one that continues to be unpopular and vulnerable. but he will likely be better fund and that a tea party than bevin, if bevin should win the primary. i think bevin has a clear opening. sam said to really try to make news of this and to keep the story around. and, look, grimes i think is strong. she is clearly strong. she wants it. she has a lot of strong support. she has a lot of enthusiasm and charisma. and i think she is going to be strong against both candidates. >> i think the real question, sam stein, at least in the short-term, how do republican primary voters react to this issue. >> i don't know. i hate to come on a show and say i don't know about things. it remains to be seen. my suspicion are opinions of mitch mcconnell are basically baked in the cake. this guy has been around for quite a long time. people in kentucky know who he is. part of kentuckians do like him because he does bring back projects to the state. he is a very good local politician. but if you had your mind-set up that mitch mcconnell needed to be ousted because he wasn't conservative enough, this reinforces your theory. if you thought he was good politician for the state of kentucky, i don't know if this necessarily dissuades you. >> margie, listening to this conversation, this surreptitiously recorded conversation is that it was not among friends over a beer. >> yeah. >> where you might be inclined to say oh my god, i'm holding nose for the next two years there was a certain underlying hostility in that discussion. and then he drops this bomb. play psychiatrist. what did you think of it as you listened to it? >> i mean, it's -- it's pretty standard practice that you should never really say things like that if you don't want them to get out. you shouldn't really speak like that in any kind of real company, except for maybe your mom, your therapist, your spouse, unless you're ready for it to get out. because people talk. and the political community in kentucky and around the country is ultimately pretty small. so it's a mistake. and it probably means he's said it to other people also. >> did you find it odd listening to it? i heard you chuckle as i made this comment. >> what is odd is this is the second time i believe that a surreptitious recording involving the mcconnell campaign was is leaked. the first was the potential ashley judd candidacy. i'm really curious what is going on here. this is rare to happen once. it's incredibly rare to happen twice. and it suggests that there are people within the republican party perhaps who are out to get mitch mcconnell. >> and margie, i guess it's a new way of doing business where at all times these candidates, as well as their chief officials have got to believe that what they're saying is being recorded in some form or another. >> for better or worse, everybody. candidates, operatives, staff, interns, just assume you're on camera being mic'd at all times. >> that's a weird reality to live in, but yes. >> sam, i keep waiting for there to be b roll that shows mitch mcconnell smiling. i swear i have never seen an appearance where he t man appears to be frumpy in appearance. >> my impression is they're sticking by jesse. there is not many options they have. he is going to turn bad lemons into bad lemonade i guess. >> thank you. by the way, late this afternoon, senator mcconnell and jesse benton tweeted this picture trying to make light of the whole hold your nose episode. a programing note, don't forget -- texas has a new reason to oppose immigration reform. she says it's the work of satan. this is "hardball," the place for politics. announcer ] made just a little sweeter... because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. the physical damage was pretty bad. the emotional toll was even worse. our daughter had nightmares. what that robber really took from us was our peace of mind. with adt, we got it back. 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[ male announcer ] call now and get adt installed for just $99. you could save a lot more than money. hurry, and take advantage of these savings. adt. always there. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. former presidential candidate mitt romney reemerged this week with some unsolicited advice for republican voters in 2016. but will his fellow republicans listen? here is jimmy fallon's take on that last night. >> mitt romney told republicans that they need to pick a candidate for 2016 who can actually win. and republicans said yeah, wish you told us that last year. thanks a lot. next up, the former chair of the texas republican party is coming out against the senate's immigration bill. why? because she thinks it's demonic. here is kathy adams talking about that on end team talk radio. >> i think the latest nonsense i saw from the homeland security department was something like a million people that have come here on visas that we have no idea where they are. >> do you know where they're taking us with this? because they said the solution to all these lost foreigners in the country, the solution is biometric scanning. >> i do understand that. i've seen it. i've heard it. and of course we know in biblical prophesy. that is the end time that is going to be the brand either on our foreheads or on the back of our hands. that is demonic through and through that is end times prophesy there is no question about that. >> in case you were wondering, the senate immigration bill does not include the branding of immigrants. new york mayor michael bloomberg is taking the lessons of detroit's bankruptcy to heart. he cautioned that new york city could suffer a similar fate if it takes its financial well-being for granted. his warning comes, coincidentally, on an anniversary of new york's own fiscal crises in the '70s. here is a flashback to new york's last federal bailout, which was signed 35 years ago on this day in 1978. >> on the steps of city hall in new york this afternoon, president carter signed into law a bill to keep the city from going bankrupt. with this law, the federal government guarantees more than $1.5 billion of loans to the city over the next four years. the white house decided it should be done outside where it would draw a large crowd. an effort, said the white house aides, to portray firm presidential action. >> we've come a long way. up next, 13 women have now accused san diego mayor bob filner of sexual harassment. when we return, we'll meet one of his accusers. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ villain ] well mr. baldwin... it appears our journey has come to a delightful end. then i better use the capital one purchase eraser to redeem my venture miles for this trip. purchase eraser? it's the easy way to erase any recent travel expense. i just pick a charge, like my flight with a few taps, it's taken care of. impressive baldwin. does it work for hotels? absolutely thank goodness. mrs. villain and i are planning our... you scare me. and i like it. let's go what's in your wallet? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪ the dodge summer clearance event. right now get 0% financing for up to 72 months and no payments for 90 days on all dodge vehicles. to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. 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[ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in. hey there. i'm veronica de la cruz. here is what is happening. san diego authorities say a man accused of kidnapping a 16-year-old girl may be armed with homemade explosives. james dimaggio is accused of killing the girl's mother and possibly her younger brother. fema has authorized federal funds to assist california in a wildfire burning out of control. it has forced 1500 people to flee their homes. and trains trigger flash floods across several states prompting evacuations. two are dead. i'm veronica de la cruz. let's get you back to "hardball." we're back. 13 women have now come forward with allegations of sexual harassment, groping, and other charges of inappropriate behavior against san diego mayor bob filner. but the newest charges may be the most disturbing yet. this week two female veterans said that filner made sexual advances at them last year. the truly shocking thing is where filner met them, at an event for victims of sexual assault in the military. the two women were themselves victims of rape. this morning one of the women, eldonna fernandez spoke with nbc's chris jansing. >> this is an organization that helps women and an organization of women who have all been victims of sexual assault, sexual trauma in the military. well trusted him. and apparently he hit on about seven or eight of us within the organization, which to me is very egregious. to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal. that's why it was called a healing and hiring fair. >> the latest news just adds to a list of shocking allegations of behavior by the san diego democrat. >> he would come in and try and kiss me on the lips. and i'd have to squirm to get away. and just as recently as a few months ago, this happened. and i turned, and he just slobbered down my chin. and i was so violated and i was so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left, and i was the last one in the room. and bob stepped between me and the doorway, and he stopped me, and he got very close to me. and he ran his finger up my cheek like this, and he whispered to me do you have a man in your life? >> i was placed in the filner headlock and moved around as a rag doll while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me was improper. i pointed out that he had asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> the embattled mayor has entered a two-week behavior treatment program, but has refused to step down from office, leaving his opponents with only one option, a costly and time consuming recall process. laura fink is a political consultant and a former deputy campaign manager for mayor filner. she too says she was harassed by him, and karen finney is the host of "disrupt" which airs weekends here on msnbc. laura, what exactly did he do to you? >> in 2005, one of my duties was to staff him at fundraising functions. and i was at a formal dinner where i was responsible for moving him from table to table. when i stood next to him in order to do so, one of the guests commented that i should really be appreciated for my efforts and that i had worked my behind off for him. he proceeded to tell me to turn around, which i did, and he patted me on the behind and laugh and said nope, it's still there. >> what was the reaction from those who were at the dinner? >> you know, i think that they were like were, in shock, and they were just looking for a way to get beyond that moment. i found that the anger and the humiliation, what you might association, reactions you might associate with the situation come later. and so i would imagine that it was similar for the guests. >> it seems like there is strength in numbers, to use that old expression, that so many women are now coming forward, 13 as of this particular moment. why didn't you come forward sooner? what is it about needing to see others who were similarly afflicted before everybody came forward? >> well, i documented the incident, and i demanded an apology, and i asked that this not happen to other women at the time. but it's extraordinarily challenging to confront those in power, in particular when you feel alone or you feel isolated. you're not sure that he is doing this to other people when it happens to you. and furthermore, you're not sure that you'll be taken seriously if you come forward. it's extraordinarily intimidating. and the fact that we just heard navy retired rear admiral and former navy mayor of san diego, a dean at san diego state and a prominent businesswoman assert the same thing, it speaks to how difficult it is. >> but was it nevertheless known among people who were close to him, hey, this guy is creepy, and you've got to be careful when you're around him? >> you know, i don't know that for sure. i think that some of his behavior has devolved, and it's become more pervasive and more intense over the years. so it's hard to speak to that issue in isolation. i don't think this was a case where everyone knew and wasn't saying anything. i think everything had a suspicion, but i don't, you know, obviously we're all finding out now. >> filner spent 20 years as a member of congress. last week hilary rosen told cnn his behavior was no secret to people in congress. >> i actually had dinner over the weekend with some female members and former members who said that this guy has kind of been this way all along. that everybody thought that he was a little creepy. >> to that point, slate's david weigel wrote filner's ultra slow motion downfall tells us how long you can get along with being a creep in politics. the tolerance for mild creepiness is quite high because your victims don't know how much of it they're expected to put up with. karen, as i watch this unfold, i'm thinking about sandusky, because i said to myself, this can't be just -- if there are three victims, there need to be ten victims. >> of course. >> it's hard to believe that for 20 years in who t house he wasn't up to the same shenanigans. >> he probably was. and people probably didn't come forward because how much of this do i put up with? is it just me? part of what this makes me want to remind people this is why it is so important that we create ways for victims to come forward and know they will be listened to and heard and believed. because that time and time and time again from the sandusky case to the military sexual assault cases that we have been hearing more and more about, what do the victims say? they were afraid to come forward. they were afraid because the person was in power. >> he is the mayor, the congressman. >> they were afraid that they wouldn't be believed. it's interesting. as a woman, i can tell you that there is a conversation that i and many of my women friends, we girls get from our parents before we go off into the work world telling you this could happen to you, and to be prepared for it. i was lucky my parents always said if it does, we believe you. but i think we don't have enough systems and enough attitudinal changes to make sure that people know this. is zero tolerance. we cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. it's not cute. it's not funny. it's got to be a zero tolerance policy. >> laura, to karen's point, how do we make it easier for those who have been victimized such as yourself to come forward? >> well, i think that you give them a means to do so. i mean, it's a complicated issue. there are statues of limitations on lawsuits. sometimes people don't want to file lawsuits. how do you report this? how do you immediately address it? and how do you promote a work environment where it doesn't feel as if there will be a consequence if you do so. part of the reason i came out is because i wanted to encourage other women to come forward and to show them that you are not going to be vilified for this. >> last month, mayor filner apologized to the women and announced that he was entering a two-week intensive therapy program to address his behavior. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behavior i have engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve ongoing regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> the hubris is astounding in the face of 13 women coming forward. >> right. >> this is an arduous process, now, to get rid of him if he won't go. >> i certainly hope there are people, there are a number of different efforts. this is also i should say as a democrat, i don't care democrat or republican, this guy's got to go. whether that means the democratic party can help make that happen, the people of san diego, what help do they need to make that happen, i know it's an arduous process. i hope they get enough signatures. because, again, this sun acceptable. did you believe anything he just said? he was reading from a script, and there was no sense of remorse, no sense of i really screwed up here. two week, are you kidding me? that is like the hollywood oh, i went to rehab, and now i'm fixed. nobody should buy that. >> if i can play armchair shrink for a moment, i get from him what i get from weiner in a sense this seems to be a personality that would rather be drawing the limelight for negative reasons than not drawing it at all. >> but also it seems like this is a person who has no sense of what is or is not appropriate. some of the women that you talked -- a rear admiral? my heavens. a businesswoman? there is no mechanism in his brain that says that's inappropriate. i shouldn't do that. that's a sickness. >> laura, go ahead. >> karen, if i can interrupt, just from my experience with him, it's even beyond that. i think that he knows exactly what he is doing. he laughs when he does it. he enjoys putting people in uncomfortable situations. and ultimately, this is about power and the the abuse of power. and when you have -- whether you're talking about politicians or ceos. >> that's right. >> or other folks, it's about abusing that power. and so he knows that he is doing it. >> and that's part of why it's so important, again, is we're having these conversations. now that some of this stuff is getting out on the table, this issue about power, this issue about, again, people feeling like they will be believed if they come forward. but also creating a climate where it is absolutely not tolerated. because you get away with stuff like that when you think you can. >> laura, knowing this personality the way that you have, from having worked with him in the past, i take it you're not surprised that he refuses to go silently into that night. >> i'm not surprised. i'm not surprised at all. and the recall faces significant challenges because of the structure and the timeline to get the signatures. it's going to require a herculean effort. i'm not confident that it can succeed as a political strategist. it's just the sad fact of the matter. we really do need him to resign as well. and so -- the ball is in his court. but i think there are things we can do to put pressure on him. i think that's part of -- the lawsuit will put pressure on him. i think the investigation by the sheriff's office will put pressure on him. and my hope is whether it's because of, you know, whatever the rationale or the reason, my hope is he is going to choose to resign. and that might be because of the public shaming. that might be because of his pocketbook. one can't really say. but my hope is that he reaches that tipping point. >> well, thank you both for being here. thank you, laura fink, thank you, karen finney. up next, what do you think of when you she this flag? if it's the tea party, you're not alone. now a new york man finds himself at the center of a legal controversy because he wanted to honor veterans by flying this flag. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 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[ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ welcome back to "hardball." symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder. in new rochelle, new york, a veteran's group has filed a federal lawsuit against the city partly over the symbolism of the famous gadsden flag. the famous phrase "don't tread on me" was the symbol of the american revolution, but in recent years the gadsden flag has been flown by some attendees at tea party rallies. though it's certainly not a formal symbol, the flag has become associated with the tea party in some quarters. but in march after they replaced the tattered flag at the local armory with a new american flag and the gadsden flag flying officials ordered it taken down. in response, the patriotic association of new richelle f e filed a federal lawsuit. moses is a citizen volunteer with the save our armory committee. he actually purchased and gave the gadsden flag to the veterans group. peter is the "our town" columnist for "the new york times" who wrote about the conflict. are you a tea party guy? >> i've never been a member of the tea party, not affiliated with any political group of that nature. >> why this flag? you shelled out $16 of your own money to get a gadsden flag where there hadn't been one. >> i've always liked the gadsdn flag. to me, it was something that spoke to me as part of american history that i'm very fond of and i'm a historian of american history. that's why. >> to whom, if anyone, were you trying to send the don't tread on me message? >> i was trying to send the message specifically to our mayor. if there was any message to be sent, the mayor has had a long history of disrespecting the veterans in new richelle and also our military history. the armory in new richelle is our last bit of remaining history. and they have not treated that place very fairly. it's in very bad condition. and they've done everything that they could short of tearing it down to actually make sure that it's in as poor of shape as possible. >> peter, your piece which i shared with my radio audience really struck a chord all across the country. people calling and were passionate on both sides of this issue. what's the big picture that you see? >> the big picture is how polarized we've become as a country. even five years ago there would be no dispute over this, but rightly or wrongly, if you google tea party flag, this is what comes up. >> right. >> for a lot of people, there's a charge to this flag that there wasn't. it's a conservative symbol. i think that's what the city was getting at. >> a friend of mine who owns a tavern in old city, philadelphia, close to independence hall, the liberty bell, betsy ross, used to fly it outside his establishment then told me he felt obliged to take it down when it became this symbol because he didn't want to lose half of his audience. >> right, there have been disputes all around the country, in arizona, in connecticut, in rhode island over this very same issue. again, this was an issue that, a flag that a few years ago had no connotation other than history and patriotism. now it's part of the american culture and political -- >> the armory is municipal space. it's deeded over from the state. what would you say to someone who says i feel alienated by that flag because of its association, flying on public space? >> well, what i would say to the person is that you have to look into what the context of our ceremony we held was. you have to see what we were trying to do. what the flag really symbolizes. and i believe that, you know, we can all come together under that meaning of unalienable rights and if we have a dialogue, we can see that it's not as partisan as some people would like to make it. >> and to your point, there was a 5-2 vote taken. your point of polarization. 5-2. the ds said get rid of it, the rs said keep it. >> right. the legal question will come down to something that has very little to do with the meaning of the flag which is whether it's government speech, whether it's private speech. it's a city-owned armory and city-owned flag pole. and the veterans group is chartered by the city. so if a court concludes that this is essentially government speech, then they have very broad powers to say what they will allow and what they won't allow. >> you obviously think there's an important principle at stake here that necessitates litigation to resolve whether this flag can fly over the armory. >> yes. because of the fact that the veterans organization is chartered by the city, and they have been in charge of doing things like this in the past. they've been allowed to choose what they have flown in the past. our city government has been at memorial day services where that flag was flown. this has become a political issue and it's being made one when there really isn't one. >> peter, just 30 seconds or so left. what kind of a reaction have you gotten to your piece? did you get the same sort of passion that i heard on the airwa airwaves? >> aside from the fact that we're so polarized, this is a symbol that goes back to the beginning of the country and has a huge historical charge as well as the contemporary issues. so, yeah, people are very passionate. >> part of me says if you don't like what the symbol has become, you know, fight for the right to take it back. >> well, absolutely. you know, because i was thinking, there are a lot of aggrieved people in america, and a lot of people feel don't tread on me. conservatives use this flag, maybe liberals should, too. >> it's a great issue. moises, thank you for being here. peter, thank you for writing about it. >> thanks so much. when we return, allow me to finish with an important distinction between a crime and a hate crime. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. she's stl the one for you - you know it even after all these years. but your erectile dysfunction - you know,that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. his dad knows he's not. that's why dad got allstate accident forgiveness. it starts the day you sign up. 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"all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, from washington. i'm ezra klein sitting in for the one and the only christopher l. hayes. tonight on "all in" nuclear states, russia and the u.s., own 94% of the world's nuclear weapons. yes, 94% was that number. which makes this current spat a bit more tense, right? also tonight the fight over obama care takes a recess. the summer of the angry anti-obama care town hall is back. but unlike last time this story played out, it is republicans who are feeling the heat.