>> yes, that is basically it. i don't know if he wanted to be there while trump was making his speech about the change of staff. >> phil rucker, as condensed as they are, all of our print colleagues at the white house are writing the lookback piece about the reince priebus era, all six months of it. and i know you contend he was something less than a chief of staff in full always? >> you know, yeah, i think that is exactly right. look, this is an establishment republican who became close to donald trump over the course of the campaign. tried to help integrate the party in the trump world. tried to do it in washington to help trump govern and pass his agenda on capitol hill. but he was beset time and time again by the kind of chaos and disorder that has really defined all of trump's enterprises,
including this white house. it was so remarkable, that reince priebus was so belittled and demeaned at work, the backbiting was so intense and vicious. i talked to one staffer, the president said that reince priebus was weak, he can't get the job done and of course all has come to an end. >> as one politico put it together, how much change do you expect? >> well, i think that is the critical question. and i would draw your attention to one point, brian, i had a conversation tonight with a source who said look, anthony scaramucci is still going to be reporting to the president. he will still have oval office privileges, as far as we know at
this point and what that means is that the chief staff still doesn't have that emboldened status of having most of the top officials report to him. will that change? will john kelly push for that? i think it will be a critical question, that could determine if this ship is righted. it was very tense today at the white house. we had a sense that something may be brewing as phil points out, the president for several days if not for weeks and months has questioned reince priebus's ability to be forceful on a whole host of issue. and he put reince priebus in charge of health care and was growing increasingly frustrated he was not seeing more action, more success on that front. it's our understanding that last night's vote was the death nell for preibus. >> all right, it doesn't get any heavier than that.
the lack of a successful agenda. he was supposed to be with his establishment republican contacts in charge of health care i just mentioned. that of course has gone down in a humbling defeat. he has not been able to keep the trains running on time. this is a white house that never has a coherent message week to week because they're so often derailed by the president's tweets, his whims, he went after one of his most favorite generals, then, we have the departure of the shortest tenured chief of staff in white house history. >> what kind of week was it? we want to tell the viewers tonight we'll have a look back at where we have been since monday. it's a head-spinner. so josh, because we're talking about washington and a cabinet department where the number two will be in charge until the number one can be nominated and
not just any cabinet department. the folks who keep us safe, what are you hearing about a new secretary for the department of homeland security? >> well, we're hearing that you know, one of the rumors that is out there right now is there there may be some effort to try to shift attorney general jeff sessions over to this job because he is somebody who always had been thought of as more of an immigration enforcer anyway. but i don't know that that is viable in the senate given some of the rules that have been laid out there. the statements laid down by various senators in the last couple of days saying they're not interested in having more confirmation hearings for attorney general. that would throw them obviously into a panic, the ouster of bob mueller, for the time being we're probably looking at an acting chief over there until things settle down. >> so kristen welker, as we digest the idea of the attorney general going to the job of homeland security, the bells
that it would set off. and scaramucci, it is roundly contended that the kind of barnyard language he would use that would make a longshoreman blush, would make an instant dismissal by any other president. he won, he is still there. >> not only is he still there, brian, but there is a sense behind the scenes that the president is okay with what happened. that perhaps he was in some ways expressing part of what the president feels at least as it relates to reince priebus. steve bannon's job, it seems, at this point is still safe. but what has already divided an already fractured west wing, what i mean is you have some
people behind scenes who are brushing off what happened, others laughing about what happened but other people who are deeply upset and bothered by it who say frankly, someone who uses that type of language, someone who attacks his fellow colleagues should not be allowed to continue to serve in the west wing at the pleasure of the president. and so i think it's created more discord. now, can general kelly come in and change that? can he smooth over some of these very rough edges that exist right now? that will be a real challenge, i think, because there is a lot of concern and paranoia among staffers that they could be the next to go. it is worth noting that reince priebus was one of donald trump's remaining links to the party. you have sean spicer, who is out. you have katie walsh who was the first rnc connected high level staffer to leave and another lower level communications staffer who left just last week.
so you have four departures all connected to the rnc, the president's connection to that branch of the republican party growing thinner by the day. >> mr. rucker, one question was answered tonight. that is what the president will do about the russia sanctions. they floated out the idea he would not sign on them even though they passed through the house and senate with margins you don't see any more. >> that is right, the answer is the president will sign the legislation. we got word through the white house that sarah sanders, the press secretary, just an hour ago, the congress really forced the president's hand because this is a veto-proof majority. even if the president were to do a veto of this bill it would really be a symbolic gesture because the congress of course would override it. >> jonathan, we don't deal in absolutes, but how close to the worst week ever in the white house did we just witness?
>> that is -- this is up there. this is a week that has seen him as mentioned go after his attorney general, that has seen the health care bill collapse in a humbling defeat that has seen a lot of republicans suddenly act like they're not afraid of the president any more. they're not going to act on his behalf for loyalty or out of fear. and now we have scaramucci coming in, clearly shaking things up. he is sort of the president's id, if you will, he seemed not only that he survived this controversy but seems offended in the white house, but that could change if kelly comes in on monday and attempts to right the ship. but at the end of the day this is still the president. it all emanates from donald trump. there will only be significant changes in this white house if he is willing to make them. and until he does and of course this is the russia cloud hanging over all of this. there may be other competitors for worst week ever. >> after a long day for the good
folks who bring us the first draft of history our thanks to our panel of journalists, kristen welker, philip rucker, and jonathan lamiere. coming up, how is the ouster of reince priebus sitting with the gop? we'll ask one strategist when we continue. hi.
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and we're continuing to work very hard every day to accomplish those goals. >> it was later dubbed the dear leader meeting. that was reince priebus at the president's first full meeting of the cabinet, thanking mr. trump, for the opportunity and the blessing to work for the administration. joining us by telephone to react to today's news, msnbc political analyst steve schmidt, also happens to be former chief strategist to john mccain, former 2008 campaign. steve, we have been thinking of you as this news has pulled out. give me the basics on the presidency tonight. >> well, it's in very bad shape. and listening to reince priebus on the audio, what it shows, brian, is that excellence and syphocancy is not necessarily job reassurance in the presidency.
we have the lowest numbers in the modern history of polling at 35, 36, 37%, wherever it may be. we have complete and total chaos in the west wing. and really, with each new dawn, there is another assault. another attack on the dignity of the institution of the office of the president of the united states. and so increasingly -- and i try not to be alarmist about this as we talk about it on a daily basis, but we're approaching a real hour of crisis in our democracy and in our civics. in the life of a democratic republic. and you think back to that story
from outside the declaration of independence convention, you know, where benjamin franklin walks out and he is asked by a woman on the street and says dr. franklin, what have we achieved here? he said the republic, madam, if you can keep it. i think what we see increasingly is a level of dysfunction that is profoundly injuring the institutions, to the democratic norms that are necessary to be sustained in a functioning 21st century democratic society. >> steve, as we always say, the heroes of watergate were for the most part, republicans. at least the surprise as it unspooled. and the surprise in the end. are you looking for that same thing of course coming off last night. murckowski, collins and mccain
in the senate, are you looking for the republicans to change their behavior and comments? >> of course, look, we have two parties in this country right now. we may well see a real independent candidacy in 2020, but when we look at the two parties right now the party that controls washington where members who i don't question their sincerity and their oath-taking where they swore the oath to defend the constitution of the united states. but the norms of a democratic society and culture that have been passed down generation to generation in this country are under assault by this administration. and where is the point where republican office holders stand up and say enough is enough with the chaos and with the
degradations of our most important institutions. and specifically, how important was it that mitch mcconnell was able to put together the vote of something that had the support of 13% of americans that not one of those senators knew how much it cost. how many people would lose their insurance. in fact, not one of them had any idea what the legislation would do who voted in the affirmative. and so as we continue on in this administration and you look ahead to the elections in 2018, what is increasingly clear is with this collapse of thinking and policy making and intellectualism that is attached to conservatism in the republican party, will there be a political price to pay for it?
and i suspect there will be a heavy political price to pay for it before all is said and done. >> a somber note, thank you, steve schmidt with us tonight. we'll take another break. when we come back some people who know this new incoming white house chief of staff, former marine, four-star general. how will he get along with the boss? what can we expect? that and more when "the 11th hour" continues. "got a minute? not for me, for you." new aveeno®... ...positively radiant® 60 second in shower facial. works with steam to reveal... ...glowing skin in just one minute. aveeno® "naturally beautiful results®"
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fall, we are so happy and fortunate to have with us three men who know the general, retired four-star barry mccaffrey, decorated vietnam veteran, and another highly decorated veteran, u.s. army retired, jack jacobs, a recipient of the medal of honor. also returning to our broadcast, the former chief of staff at the cia and pentagon, jeremy bash. so general, you and general kelly were both in the four-star club, that is a very small membership. how did you come to know him? and tell him who is this man? >> i have known him over the years, in seminars with him, and doing interviews. this is one of the finest people i ever met in my life. in terms of integrity, competence, good judgment.
so i think the good news is for the american people. i would also point out. i heard a couple of colleagues talking about his lack of congressional or political experience. this fellow was seven years working congress for the u.s. marine corps. so he is intimately aware of how the legislative process works. and then finally, he not only served in europe and afghanistan, and all over latin america, he has been the military assistant to two of the finest public servants we ever had. bill gates and secretary leon panetta. so i think this guy would be better off parachuting into raqqah, syria, than going into this white house. but it's good news for the american people. >> general, you always have a way with words. colonel jacobs, in addition to being a new englander, his accent will give him away, but we should have american people know him for his service.
he is a gold star father, he lost a son serving in the military. he has another son, why do you believe he is suited for this job? >> well, he is intelligent, hard working, diligent, a strong patriot, a great american. but i don't think that this matters about the white house, the chief of staff has to be a chief of staff. anybody who has an opportunity to work around him will leave the place in chaos, jared kushner doesn't report to anybody, goes directly to the president. bannon is stuck to the president like the lip on the hull of a ship. scaramucci already said he reports to the president. at the end of the day, general kelly is either going to have to accept a diminished role as the chief of staff or he will have to be frustrated and have to leave. >> jeremy bash, during your
time, i know general kelly became a military officer that you worked with the closest. >> we worked together and traveled all around the world together. i want to echo what is said, he is a great american, maybe one of the greatest, i think the point stands even if we had the greatest american serving as the white house chief of staff, if the president doesn't empower that person and insist on order, and john kelly is a student of the chain of command, and order, the president will not be able to achieve his agenda, and i don't know -- john kelly and nobody can do it. i talked to his friends, his former boss, secretary leon panetta, we know he is highly capable and intelligent. we're praying for him, and want the president to empower him now to bring order to that very unordered place.
>> well, i hope a lot of americans see and hear what you gentlemen just said about him tonight. those three words, chain of command will come up tonight something tells me. so general mccaffrey, something tells me today, just before your appearance tonight on this broadcast, north korea fired off another icbm. we have information where they straightened out the journey of this missile today. it was aloft for 40 minutes to show us where had it had a different trajectory it could reach within the lower 48 of the united states. make that 49, make it 50, actually, including alaska and hawaii. so general, as fraught a circumstance as we have seen in the modern era certainly, what to do about this? >> there is only a bit of good news here. north korea is essentially a criminal regime. they're not zealots. they're not ideological, they're not religious.
so the preservation of the regime is the only thing that counts. having said that, this is an unstable regime with quirky lad who shoots his generals for not applauding loudly enough when he gives a speech. so we don't think he has a very rational bubble of decision-making around him. i don't think there is any good news. we're not going to strike north korea for trying to take out their nuclear capability. not going to happen. the chinese are not going to strangle north korea economically. not going to happen. they're not going to strangle their nukes, so we have to build our missiles and ships at sea. >> i love hearing the analysts saying we need to strike them pre-emptively, i want to say show me the target list you have in mind. >> i think if one assumes this is a continuing criminal
enterprise, one way to deal with them, we're going to have to go get together with china and look at the criminal enterprise's existence. otherwise, they will continue to develop the capability to strike the united states. we're not going to scorch their earth, with artillery strike distance, you have to make the deal with them. we kicked the can down the road so long this is the only route. >> and jeremy bash, you have the last word, we talked about perhaps a crisis would be the test of this administration no one was hoping to see. >> yeah, the chairman of the joint chiefs had to correct the president given the transgender policy, not on the substance, but the manner in which it was given. when the president communicates an order it should communicate through the chain of command, that was not done this week and in a real crisis that could cost
american security and american lives. >> general barry mccaffrey, jack jacobs, jeremy bash, thank you all gentlemen on a friday night. we certainly appreciate it. coming up, another white house staffer was resigning, remember sean spicer's exit, that was last friday. think of all that happened this week, we will when "the 11th hour" continues.
best people in the world. >> he knows people. we figured it's friday night. we have to look at how we got here and where we have been. so we put together a great conversation group for this. joining our conversation, pulitzer prize winning presidential author and historian, the author of most recently, bush 41, john meecham, boston globe columnist and the joint chair with us, and author and friend of the broadcast. because a man from kenosha, because the man who is a friend of yours is in the white house, i want to start with what reince priebus's life has looked like this last six months. what his departure looks like to you today. i would love to hear it.
>> i do think of reince priebus as a friend. but i think the story is tragic, because he made a series of decisions and rationalizations, and enabled and empowered donald trump. and even though a lot of us warned him this would end badly i don't think anybody thought it would end in this torrent of profanity and humiliation that we have seen. you know, reince priebus says he is going to try to keep this classy and above board. but the reality is when you watch the trajectory of the first six months of this presidency, it's not because reince priebus was a bad chief of staff, it's because you have a bad president. everything starts and ends with donald trump. and unfortunately, despite what a great american general kelly is he is going to inherit that same dysfunction. at the center of everything that is happening is donald trump. by the way, the big question i have is what is the really defining move of last week?
was it the appointment of general kelly or was it the appointment of the mooch, the mooch who is obviously an unhinged, he has been described as the president's id, if that is the future of the presidency, then i don't think the president is going to be able to turn it around. >> as i said, general mccaffrey, the launch of a missile today sharpens the mind and causes you if you're at all worried about such things and responsive to such things, it asks you about the most fearsome arsenal in the world. >> i was talking to a very senior republican lawmaker last week who said he was more concerned about what he called the competence deficit in the white house, that he wasn't even worried about russia. and he was worried in 2016.
i do think general kelly is good news on that front. but we all know history is made up of the unexpected. and every white house comes in thinking that they can master events and events nearly always master them. that is the way the world works. as far as general kelly goes, i don't know if he knows the story, but exactly 30 years ago in 1987, when don reagan was on his way out as reagan's chief of staff, ronald reagan decided to call the great baker of tennessee, when the president called to offer him the chief of staff job. and senator baker was at the zoo with his grandchildren. and his wife said, mr. president, he can't come to the phone, he is at the zoo. and the president said well, wait until he sees the zoo i have in mind for him. and the reagan white house looks
like the kennedy school compared to this. >> indira, if the arrival of a marine four-star means these are better days ahead, do you think the bill for dysfunction kind of came due this past week? >> look, i think it's all a great idea that general kelly is supposed to come in and restore order. but it's like the idea of rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic when it is already half way under water. i mean, it really doesn't make any sense. there is no amount of order that he can possibly restore to a dysfunctional white house where everybody is infighting with one another, when it's the president himself who is encouraging this infighting, who is encouraging scaramucci to give an interview like he did, apparently with his blessing he gave these insults about reince priebus to ryan liz of the new yorker. when you have somebody at the top who is allowing his staff
members to act like contestants on "the apprentice," then one of them will get axed at the end of the week. i don't think how general kelly will try to make order, when you can't make order, it's like herding cats with a giant lion at the top of the pen. it absolutely can't happen. >> we'll be right back after this.
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i know that we're all going to make a deal on health care, that is such an easy one. >> we're going to take care of everyone. we're going to take care of people and people are going to get it so good. >> that was too easy, let's talk about what happened last night. in the well of the senate it came down to one very dramatic moment. senator john mccain comes in and raises his right arm, broken in three places in north vietnam. senator schumer waves off any verbal reaction. but with that it was done. seven years of talk about repeal and replace done in one hand gesture. our panel remains with us and we'll go to charlie sykes. charlie, much was made of that moment of course a moment of moral courage, a man staring down his own mortality, yet again not the first time in his last. let's talk about the courage of murckowski of alaska, and collins of maine, because
without those two women there is no moment like that no john mccain. my question to you, is that kind of courage for cheering them on going to be contagious? >> well, you don't know, you made the point to ask and others have as well that frankly it will have to be republicans or conservatives that will have to rein in the trump administration. it was barry goldwater that told nixon he needed to go. but john mccain not only cast a courageous vote, but probably provided cover for i don't know how many other senators who knew that this was a deeply unpopular flawed piece of legislation that the process, the policy, the politics were all very flawed. and that he provided them some cover. but you know we will see. i do get a sense that this was a turning point this week. lisa murckowski standing up against the threat from the
interior secretary. the push back against the talk of getting jeff sessions. passing the russian legislation, the pushback on the transgender order. you almost got the sense that republicans are realizing okay, this is their moment they have to push. >> so john meecham, i have to ask if there is anything as parallel to anything in talk and campaigning, any political party that has had house, senate, white house going into a vote so elemental? >> i can't think of a specific one. there are broad trends that that unfolds. the republicans growing uncomfortable with deficits, that kind of thing after campaigning against government for so many years. but in terms of a dramatic moment and really -- a window into a party in crisis, we talk
a lot about the democrats, identity crisis and rightly. but you know, there is a connection here between reince priebus's departure and the failure of the repeal vote, i think. which is that the republican party essentially sold its soul to donald trump and the check has bounced. and they're going to have to figure out what to do. >> indira, you get the last 30 seconds, what now for the trump administration? >> i think that john made the excellent point. it's really what republicans are going to do to stop him in congress. we already heard from chuck grassley saying no, we're not going to put in a new attorney general. and graham saying we're going to put in legislation to stop you from firing mueller. but i don't think it's going to stop this president from taking those kinds of actions. so we'll see if any other republican can be able to do what john mccain did, and
murckowski and collins, we'll see if anybody takes that kind of dramatic step to stand up to donald trump? >> and that sound you heard was the air coming out of charlie's lungs. charlie wrote books about this, copies of which we'll sell all during the fall. to john, indira, thank you for staying up late with us on a friday night after the week we have had. coming up, it was a week where so many things happened, you would be forgiven for not remembering it all. that is where we come in after this.
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attorney general. and in a rally in ohio, the president declared himself the most presidential since lincoln. that day senator john mccain flew back to washington and delivered a dramatic speech on health care. on wednesday, the president banned transgender service members in the armed forces. he did it later on twitter. the armed forces later told the members there was no policy they knew of. last night, a huge defeat of the health care bill after seven years of the repeal-and-replace rallying cry. and then later, during a speech, the president said they should not be so soft on them. later, the president said they don't advocate rougher treatment of those they arrest. then north korea launched another missile, donald trump
the u.s. withdrawal from the iran nuclear deal u.s. president trump says it was all about america's security well tonight from london to paris to berlin leaders are contemplating europe's security what to do when your closest ally suddenly seems like your newest threat i burned off in berlin this is the day. i'll be hot for the iranian nation i say mr trump you cannot do a damn thing that we have to deal with iran is not dead. but it is a show to us once again that we will face more responsibility in europe we have on . the phone who i kid you we want to preserve that at all costs did she state speak in the strongest terms on the lunacy of the actions that the president of the
united states is taking. prime minister i have been very clear in a number of conversations with the president of the united states about the belief that the united kingdom the j.c.t. away the nuclear deal with iran should stay the it's done fine thank you it was put on in germany france and great britain have to decide that we continue to it he had to the agreement. will to me there is talk of continuing to deal with these three european countries i don't choose these three countries i'm. not going to. oh we begin the day with europe trying to pick up the pieces of that broken iran nuclear deal us president trumps decision yesterday to back out of the agreement was no surprise but on the day after as the reality began to set in dread and disappointment gave way to humiliation from the paris climate accord to try. we
need to have only served to widen a growing transatlantic divide european leaders who expect the u.s. to take its rightful leadership role are now confronted with the white house that does not take kindly to advice and appears to be brushing off european worries i want you to take a listen to what trump's national security advisor john bolton said today we are completely together on what the objective is and now we have to get past this disagreement over the deal i think it will do that i'm optimistic it's just a disagreement is this a pretty possible military action that something you've spoken about and pushed for in the palm well those are my private opinions what we're going to try and do now is keep the allies together keep transatlantic unity and put more pressure on iran on notice bolton said there keep the allies together you know if there ever was a plan to do that senior officials at the u.s. state department revealed yesterday that they had not received the memo in fact we
learned that there is no plan b. washington apparently assumes that europe will fall in line with trump's iran's policy and they have a tweet to back them up. now this is the transcript from a briefing by the state department to reporters yesterday when a reporter asked how the u.s. government can be sure that europe will cooperate a state department senior official said this i mean i think we have some idea because the president and president when he was here for the state visit president called it a four pillar new deal and the reporter says but one of the pillars that was keeping the c.p.a. away the nuclear deal which he made certain to emphasize repeatedly the state department official went on to say right but he tweeted today something that seemed to indicate to me a french willingness to work with us and the reporter replied so you
guys have a positive tweet out of it that's amazing yes the trump administration apparently decided that there is no need for a plan b. because of the tweet written by the french president does emanuel macro not have that kind of sway over donald trump well that is just one of the questions posed to the french president today in an exclusive interview the french president sat down with d.w. news and the german public broadcaster already. but with your. boss a president madam. thank you for taking the time with the basic idea mr president. speak to you because you're going to be awarded the shot of my new price on thursday but we cannot limit ourselves to speaking about europe alone because we have a very important topic that's right you try it to a save the air india and. nuclear deal when you were in washington why did you fail
. i think the most important thing is to maintain stability and peace and middle east i'm in washington and i have said this by the way i had understood that president trump wanted to. leave agreement from two thousand and fifteen and during our joint press conference i had suggested that we work on a broader framework and i am very sorry about his decision i think it is a mistake and this is why we europeans have decided like we reiterated yesterday to remain within the agreement from two thousand and fifteen as i reminded president of wanny we negotiated and signed this agreement and it allows us to control the nuclear defense activity in iran until two thousand and twenty five but this
equipment needs to be completed on nuclear activities until two thousand twenty five ballistic activities in the region and regional activities of iran in iraq or yemen and syria when i was in washington i said to president trump don't tear everything up but if something were you let strengthen this framework and he decided to create tension what i think this was meant. to go. beyond to something broader this is what we have to do among european countries with the e.u. with the united kingdom's germany and france we have to reaffirm that we are attached to the agreement from two thousand and fifteen because the iranian regime cannot take this its activities up again. while you have heard that they are stalling that's what they said in their declaration of yesterday there is
no escalation and the european decision allows us to stop the activities for now and to limit escalation and this is why we have to work together with our partners in order to limit an escalation of tension in the region and this is what we have been trying for months now and this is also why we have to broaden already the topics in order to bring all the parties back to early larger security and stability framework for the region because you are saying that the europeans are going to try to remain in in the agreement and adopt it but what does it really mean without the united states what is it rusts without. a proposal that's sufficient for iran. but this is going to be our topic in the coming weeks and months and it's the mandate that we gave our foreign ministers in the e.u. and in iran. because. what are you going to be able to propose well it's the
agreement that we've signed balls. it's everything over no because one of the signatories draws out but the others are reaffirming that they're committed but i think in any event. it is a pity because we had anticipated and now we can regret his decision but it's important that we all remain obsessed by its stability and peace. in the region. but the situation is very difficult very dangerous and our transatlantic relations damaged well there are some elements of tension but there are also elements of very strong anchor anchoring between us and iran and i think we can go beyond this through a larger negotiation that i proposed already in last september during the u.n.
assembly with and you have a macro and to resent maybe want to work in this direction and we have also plans on the commercial level and i think this has to be respected we are very strong trade power the united states are an ally partner but do we have rules to abide with the w t own rules and we have to respect them and have others respect them as well it is very important that we europeans maintained multilateral framework we have a true convergence in our views and we work together and fight against terrorism together with the united states in syria we are working together in the international coalition in africa we work together in the sad and sahar a zone against islamist terrorism so you see we have some disagreements but
nevertheless and most importantly we have a common interest that will to work for our common security in the same direction we are no at a historical point and we have to maintain doesn't matter to order which we created at the end of the second world war and that is sometimes in jeopardy where we have to create a strong moderate literalism as i said in washington. france germany and great britain and to go she had to together with iran now in europe you have reform ideas that we don't endorse are you disappointed with and that american. not at all i am you know waiting for her reply this is not our only topic that we talk about. germany waited for a long time for france to complete its reforms and i am not here to give good grades bad grades or to say i am disappointed we work together we are partners.
. if you cannot manage for instance to amend the treaty if germany does not have a solution and this is to conclude if we don't find a solution does the e.u. still have a future i mean i'm a fighter and i never draw on bad things i'm going to put all my energy into convincing and convincing some more i think the best way to convince is to do the job at home that's what i said from the beginning and this is why i waited until september to give my proposals for reform and then you have to explain to be humble to be constant i have no lessons to give i just say what i am suggesting and then i have to go on working and why some warm and until things are reality i am not going to choose that option that a scenario because i think that would be
a dramatic form of all of us and bad for germany as well germany had the courage and the strength of character to carry out very deep economic reform already ten years ago and benefited a lot from the eurozone but the situation where we are now is not going to be able to continue like that so even germany should not remain in this situation. during the migration crisis germany was. in front by selfishness from all the other countries and had this experience now we have a more responsible europe where the countries are under pressure to reform and so we need more transparency more responsibility of the member states but we need more solidarity in europe on economy of finance and migration we need more suffering europe that better protects itself against there is a more united europe and i really want your viewers to understand that it's good
also the use of ballistic missiles and the general role iran is playing in the region we don't have any idea if donald trump the u.s. president is on board with that and of course we all know to really give any punch to an agreement you do need the united states and what about the french president himself you know he's quick to say that the u.s. president has made a mistake but what about mr mack wrong's show of almost like a bromance relationship with the u.s. president just a couple of weeks ago all of that lobbying appears to have been in vain did he talk about his own shortcomings. well he did say that he anticipated that this would happen he did not say that he made any kind of mistakes and i think it's safe to say that he really gave it his all if you look at those pictures from his visit to washington d.c. but at the same time there's a huge difference between what we see is going on between trump and mccraw all
those hugs and kisses and they had sakes and all that and on the other hand what mcchrystal said while he was in the united states which was extremely critical of almost any field of policy that donald trump has been involved in so he's a true european you could say when it comes to the topics but he's well he's an exception when it comes to how he treats donald trump especially if you compare how i'm going to back up the german chancellor treats donald trump all right our prosperity from next often in the german city of often tonight max thank you very much. here the big table with me now is luke entre he is the berlin correspondent with the french daily look in your own it's good to have you on the show so you know we watch the interview there with mr macro and can you say that he is a weaker or a stronger president now that the u.s. president has exited the iran nuclear deal. we can say that heading and lobster
diplomats the. six seats you bring to keep the americans at the table on the iranian deal and so we can say that's micro appears to be tweak. on the shoulder at least the question is can from germany in the u.k. have a response to avoid economical sanctions on their own. companies that still wants to do business with iran in the future i mean that's going to require a united effort right because we're talking about europe against the united states here i mean we were talking about a collision course is going to be the european leader who can spearhead this type of unity and this type of force against washington that that tool and will mean. toward washington because now he's responding like the good guy the then with the person that wants to greed's to bring an old friend within the international
have been able to defend themselves and i think the former president called it what disgraceful right yeah but with silence and. if that's what us was that he didn't say anything what about the the the political animal emanuel microland we know just that when he was in washington two weeks ago he obviously these public displays of affection with donald trump got a lot of headlines and he seemed for at least for a moment like the president's new best friend and then he gave a speech to congress and in that speech he basically deconstructed the entire premise of america first. so was he speaking out of both sides of his melt in washington and do the french do they see that i mean how do they judge the president i mean did that that's. the fin line has to pass he has to go alone to keep
a close tie to the united states but criticism but doing criticism on leaving the pirates agreement on the climate fairing trade wars iran the cannot be only denies guy that shakes and with and it looks there was donald trump he has to make is to make its point also but not in a conference that you've waited until now and that's the question also can you change i think you do a very confront that you've stands in the world washington with the credible i don't know i mean he doesn't have to do that when he's dealing with london or particularly when he's dealing with berlin we still hear about the macro and miracle does this do we're leading europe into a different future. do you get the sense that the strength of the. shift if you will is it still there compared to a year ago. difficult to say on the public display of affection with the new
america is also on the same or same line and wants to show that paris and berlin are going to gather on the european topics but we are a few weeks away from a particularly important deadline for a read of the reform of the european union and the differences between paris and berlin are very deep expression only on the euro zone topic where. some proposal and believe in the conservative and on the market are not really. willing to go alone she's not as excited about it as he is and nail of course they have this albatross around their neck the nuclear crisis while all of that served in to put a brake on. you know european union visions. and to resume are able to create or to find a deterrent to avoid the u.s. to put sanctions on foreign companies dealing with iran then maybe it will bring
the europeans closer together and maybe it's a chance that they find a way for reforming the. well you know will have to see what happens there we know with that we're dealing with the transatlantic ties at the moment a day or two days can be an eternity. it's good to have you on the show thank you. they is nearly done but as ever the conversation continues online you'll find us on twitter either at g.w. news or you can write directly to me t.v. don't forget to use the hash tag today and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day we'll see you then everybody.
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collusion, wikileaks collaboration, or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. davis once ran a high-end prostitution ring and went to jail in the scandal surrounding then democratic governor eliot spitzer. >> the remorse i feel will always be with me. >> reporter: she has worked with stone over the years. and in late 2016, she joined his payroll to help him with clerical tasks. mueller's team has been looking into possible contact between stone and wikileaks founder, julian assange, as well as stone's contact with russia during the 2016 campaign. stone admitted to trading direct twitter messages with guccifer 2.0, which is now known to be an online persona for russian intelligence officers. but stone says the messages were innocuous. >> i certainly acknowledge that i was in touch with trump
it back. >> yeah, i followed assange's twitter feed very insidiously. i had a google alert and read every interview that he gave. you could foreshadow what he's doing miami not involved in any collusion, conspiracy or coordination with the russians or anyone else. and there's no evidence to the contrary. >> reporter: investigators have also been probing stone's finances and his personal life. people familiar with the situation say at least two witnesses were asked whether stone was actually the father of davis' son. earlier this week, stone posted a photo of davis and her child to instagram, with this caption. "why do fbi agents dispatched by robert mueller keep asking a number of my current and former associates if i am this baby's father? what does this have to do with russian collusion and the 2016 election?" now, andrew miller, another former associate of roger stone, has also been ordered to testify in front of mueller's grand jury. just another indication, wolf, of how prosecutors seem to be circling in around roger stone. >> they are really moving around that area. all right, thanks very much,
sara murray, for that report. now to the criminal trial of president trump's former campaign chairman, paul manafort. on the stand today, accountants who testified that manafort falsified financial documents as part of his alleged scheme to commit tax and bank fraud. our crime and justice reporter, shimon prokupecz, is joining us. shimon, what were the biggest developments today? >> certainly, not a big day for paul manafort and his defense team. this accountant, she's one of the people who was given immunity by the special counsel to testify, because essentially she said she helped forge some of these documents, she put together fake documents to help manafort to try and get him some loans. she also says that during -- while manafort was working on the trump campaign in 2016, he had asked her to fake numbers and some documents in billing, saying that he had received some money from an overseas client. so all of this really coming out today, at the trial, an important witness clearly for the prosecution. she was on the stand for most of
the day. she will be back on monday. she's expected to take the stand at 1:00. >> what can you tell -- what can we tell, shimon, where the prosecution is heading, based on what we've seen for so far the way they're setting up evidence of double bookkeeping, for example, fudged loan applications, and hidden offshore accounts? >> right, so, look, it's clear they have a pretty strong case. they have e-mails from paul manafort to this accountant, to other people. there are notes, there are conversations, that they know all about. it's a tight case, it seems. it seems like they have a lot of information. and really, what they're doing is, each witness is kind of supporting other theories, other witnesses, and in fact, i think what today shows us is this is all a buildup to next week when rick gates is expected to take the stand. >> shimon, prosecutors also questioned his claims about that apartment that he had in trump tower. what's that about? >> right. so that has to do with tax issues. he claimed that this was not a
rental property or that this was a rental property and not a personal property. it really has to do with how he was paying taxes, trying not to -- trying to avoid, essentially, paying some taxes, or paying less taxes, and the accountant testified he basically asked her to lie about that apartment, what the purposes of that apartment at trump tower was for. >> shimon prokupecz with the latest on that front. thank you, shimon, very much. >> joining us now, congressman mark beesy. he's a democrat and serves on the armed services committee. congressman, thank you so much for joining us. >> hello, wolf. >> when you look at all of these developments with roger stone and paul manafort, what do you think it means for president trump, big picture? >> oh, i think that it's bad news for president trump. and with his latest lashing out on twitter, you know, asking for the attorney general to fire mueller and end the investigation and put this to a close, it appears that the president is lashing out. he knows that this is serious business. he has proclaimed his innocence over and over again, but i think
that it's getting ing tting toe he's getting desperate. he seems to be very angry about this. lashing out at the media, trying to denigrate the media and say that the news that they present is not real. i think that he's in a lot of trouble. >> the president's perm lawyer, rudy giuliani, says the upcoming midterms in november, he says, they're really about impeachment or no impeachment, his words. at the end of last year, you voted in favor of an effort to launch impeachment proceedings against the president. right now, what evidence do you have that impeachment, high crimes and misdemeanor is warranted? >> yeah, and of course, you know, when we had the vote on the house floor, voted president to representative green's amendment that he had. but i will tell you, i don't think that the midterm elections is just about impeachment or not impeachment. as a matter of fact, i think that's an issue that's not that relevant at all. i think people are concerned about what happened in helsinki.
i think people are correspond about the economy and these tariffs. and just going back to helsinki very briefly, people here in texas were embarrassed by what they saw. and i thought the president had a chance to turn the page. many people think, was he compromised? is there something to that dossier? and when he was with putin on the world stage with cameras in front of him, he had a chance to be tough. instead, he let putin walk all over him. and i think it just further reinforced that there's a lot of fire to all of this smoke that's happening around this investigation. and he didn't do anything to move on from this. and with the latest revelations and everything that's going on right now with the manhattan madam, paul manafort and roger stone, it just appears to be getting worse and worse for him. and it also begs the question, why in the world did the republicans on the house intelligence committee think that now was the time to end the investigation? the american public just, in my opinion, don't have confidence in congressional republicans and
their integrity anymore. >> we'll see how that plays out in november, in the midterm elections. as you know, congressman, russia has now officially publicly responded to that news conference over at the white house yesterday, by the nation's top national security and intelligence chiefs. russian spokeswoman denying that russia had anything to do with cyber warfare in 2016 against the u.s. she says the two-year hysteria -- her words -- she says, the two-year hysteria mocks the entire political system of the united states. what do you make of that? and do you feel that the government is doing enough to counter the ongoing threat, right now, from russia? >> obviously, the russians will say anything to strengthen their position. and it's sad that in many cases, it seems like the president is also going along with this, trying to downplay what they did in the elections. and you know the history, wolf. before the 2016 campaign, the russians have always tried to influence our elections to try to undermine our democracy.
but they've found, in my opinion, players within the trump administration that may have -- that like the guccifer 2.0, that had contact with roger stone and it's really unsettling that they're not taking this more seriously. again, when he was with putin, he had a chance to be firm, be tough, and say, no, you can -- you have to stop meddling with our interference. and what's scary about this is that with the social media platforms that are available out there, it really gives the russians more opportunities, more tools, and a much easier way to communicate and infiltrate groups of people and organizations within america and they're just not taking it seriously. and what's so ironic about that, wolf, and sad at the same time, the same party, the republican party, that has gone around the country, trying to implement oppressive voter i.d. bills, everywhere, saying that they're concerned about the sanctity of the ballot. they're just letting the
russians walk all over our electoral system and the security of our election system. they voted to zero out dollars that would have gone to voting clerks all around the country to help protect our elections and to make sure that the russians can't hack into our systems. and they had the opportunity to vote with democrats on the house floor here recently. i spoke on the house floor about it. and they voted, again, to zero out that money that would have been helpful in these efforts. >> i want to switch gears for a moment, while i have you, congressman. i want to play for you a moment from the president's rally. he spoke for more than an hour in pennsylvania last night. listen to this. >> you know who the new star -- you know who that new leader is? maxine waters. [ audience reacting ] >> very low iq. low iq. no, no, maxine waters is like, she's like their new star. >> he's been attacking her for
weeks now. certainly not the first time he's attacked her. but he goes after her iq. a few weeks ago, he said her iq was in the 60s. what duo you think about that? >> oh, i think that it's absolutely terrible. and again, president trump has shown that he just doesn't know how to bring the country together. he continues to attack people, the same way how he did throughout the entire republican primary process, the same way how he attacked secretary clinton and others, even after he won the campaign, when most people historically in this country move on and turn the page. and it just shows just how childish and petulant he is. i believe that in his own words, that he says that he has the temperament of an 8-year-old. and he just proved it in pennsylvania. but what he really needs to be concerned about in pennsylvania is his bad poll numbers. of course, he narrowly won pennsylvania in 2016. but now people there are roundly rejecting him. and with the type of behavior and the way that he attacked representative waters, it's not
a big surprise. >> so you're from texas. i want to ask you about the situation on the border with mexico. as you know, more than 500 kids, children, are still being -- are still waiting to be reunited with their mothers and their fathers. the trump administration is now arguing that the aclu and other private organizations should use their resources to help locate the parents who have already been deported. and the federal judge is calling that simply unacceptable. what's your reaction to that, that there are still more than 500 children who have been separated from their parents? >> wolf, that is absolutely insane, that they would ask on nonprofit organizations to try to clean up a mess that they caused. i was down there with the -- on the border, of course, with senator gillibrand, not too long ago. and we saw kids as young as 2 years old that were separated from their parents. what the administration did was
also tonight, the kremlin is now weighing in, get reaction to all of that from a former white house cybersecurity official. to most, he's phil mickelson, pro golfer. to me, he's, well, dad. so when his joint pain from psoriatic arthritis got really bad, it scared me. and what could that pain mean? joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections,
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unified message sent by his own intelligence and national security chiefs. our chief white house correspondent, jim acosta, is in new jersey for us. jim, you're right near the trump golf resort where the president is staying. >> reporter: yep. that's right, wolf. and president trump is taking some time off at his country club in new jersey, with the storm clouds hanging over his administration, have also made the trip along with his smartphone, i suppose, along from washington. and one question the president is likely to work on during his jersey vacation is whether to finally talk with the special counsel, robert mueller. president trump arrived for a summer vacation at his new jersey golf club facing a potential hazard, that's nowhere near the putting green. the prospect of sitting down for an interview in the russia investigation. the president is receive nothing shortage of advice, as political strategists warn it's a trap. >> i'm not an attorney, but my political advice to the president would be not to sit down with bob mueller. the opportunity to make a misstatement, potentially, or to potentially get caught up on the word "is" is too great of a --
of something that could happen there. >> reporter: while the president's legal team is keeping the door open. >> i'm not going to give you a lot of hope it's going to happen, but we're still negotiating. we haven't stopped negotiating. >> at a campaign rally in pennsylvania, the president hardly sounded like he's warming up to the russia probe. >> now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it's a hoax, okay? >> reporter: mr. trump is still bending the truth when it comes to his relationship with the russians, telling his supporters, he's no friend of the kremlin. >> i'll tell you what. russia's very unhappy that trump won, that i can tell you. >> reporter: despite the fact that vladimir putin just reveal at their joint summit, he wanted a trump victory. >> translator: yes, i did. yes, i did, because he talked about bringing the u.s./russia relationship back to normal. >> reporter: democrats accuse the president of being at odds with his own national security team, who warned the world russia is trying stistill tryin interfere in u.s./russia elections.
>> the president was missing. and as you said, he was not only missing from that event. the next day, he calls it a hoax. and what president trump did in helsinki and what he did yesterday in calling the russian probe a hoax, it gives a green light to mr. putin to continue his activities here in the united states. >> reporter: and as one of the president's top intelligence officials conceded, it's not fully known what mr. trump told putin behind closed doors. >> i'm not in the position to either understand fully or talk about what happened in helsinki. i'll turn it over to the national security director here, to address that question. >> reporter: the president is still nursing his grudges with the media, disputing any news reports that he kept the queen waiting during his visit to britain last month. >> i'm waiting! so, i was about 15 minutes early. and i'm waiting with my wife, and that's fine. hey, it's the queen, right? we can wait. but i'm a little early. honestly, folks, it was such a beautiful, beautiful visit and afternoon.
but they can make anything bad, because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news. >> reporter: mr. trump again turned to the issue of immigration, this time trying to defend his past comment that mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals. >> coming down the escalator, and you remember what i said, they're sending -- do you remember that? they're sending. and i mentioned words -- i won't even mention them tonight, because there's a lot of young people here, but i mentioned words, and everybody thought it was wonderful. but then, about two days later, they said, did he say this? did he say that? guess what. what i said is peanuts compared to what turns out to be the truth. it's peanuts. now, getting back to the russia investigation, a source familiar with discussions inside the president's legal team says deliberations over whether mr. trump should sit down with mueller have been going on for months. the president is fully aware of all of these risks, we're told, but a source said the president has been advised that talking to
the special prosecutor would be a good thing for the institution of the presidency. wolf, it's unclear whether or not the president will heed that advice. we do expect rudy giuliani, the outside lawyer, to visit with the president, while he's in new jersey for this vacation week. but, at this point, wolf, i think it can only be described as crunchtime for a critical decision for the president to decide whether or not he's going to sit down with robert mueller. big decision coming, wolf. >> certainly is. jim acosta in new jersey, thanks very much. joining us now, anthony frante, the former director of the national security council cyber response team. anthony, thank you very much for coming in. we saw the nation's top national security chiefs yesterday make a very powerful case about russian interference in the u.s. elections in 2016. what they're doing right now towards the midterm elections. we heard a very different line, though, from the president last night. does that hinder the effort right now, the very different line from the president, does that hinder the effort to counter russian aggregatission?
>> yes, absolutely. first, i want to say that i was very happy to see the intelligence officials make that announcement. i think that was a huge step in the right direction, as far as educating the american people about the cyber threat we're facing from nation states. this isn't an election cycle threat, this is an ongoing threat to undermine our way of life here in the united states. and yes, absolutely, the conflicting messages, it's exactly what it does. it introduces so much doubt and it sends mixed messages, not only to the states and state officials, as they're working diligently to protect their infrastructure and their voting process, but also to the american people. >> and the fbi director, christopher wray said that there are now investigations going on in all the field offices across the country. is that a good idea? >> absolutely. i mean, those investigations never stopped. i was on the obama administration, carried over into the trump administration, worked this issue diligently with my colleagues on the cybersecurity direct rat. and the investigation never
stopped. essentially, this started in the summer of 2016 and still carries on today. >> yeah, my sense was if the president were really serious, he would have been at that event, wouldn't have been in the briefing room, would have been in the east room at the white house or the rose garden. he would have introduced all of his top security, national security chiefs. he would have made a very tough state, directed at the russians, but he was absent on that front. one individual who was there, general paul knackasony, head of the national security agency, also head of the u.s. cyber command, i want you to listen to what he said, because it's significant. >> the u.s. cyber command and the national security agency are tracking a wide range of foreign cyber adversaries and are prepared to conduct operations against those actors. our forces are well trained, ready, and very capable. we will work in conjunction with other elements of our government to ensure we bring the full power of our nation to bear on any foreign power that attempts to interfere in our democratic processes. >> all right, so that's a strong
statement. what i heard him say is that the u.s. as offensive cyber warfare capabilities to do to the russians what they're doing to the united states. but i didn't hear him say that the u.s. is ready to do that. >> sure. i mean, that is a very bold statement. i mean, one of the things that we are always concerned with while on the national security council is we wanted to de-escalate cyber effects operations. the last thing we want to do is continue to escalate and to cause havoc in our way of life. i mean, we have to appreciate that a computer network is involved in every single element of our lives. so, to conduct offensive cyber operations, we better be pretty serious about it and we have to understand the full effects. >> because the russians would understand that. they understand sanctions to a certain degree, strong statements. but if they are told by the united states, if you continue to meddle in u.s. elections, to undermine u.s. democratic institutions, the u.s. is going to launch an offensive cyber warfare attack against you.
we're going to release all sorts of information you don't want to see released, because the u.s. has great capabilities in this area, right? >> absolutely, of course, the united states absolutely has great capabilities in this area. however, the united states also has to consider their posture, their cybersecurity posture, because just as easy as we can launch these effects and operations against an adversary, an adversary can launch them against us. >> so is that why president obama didn't launch offensive cyber attacks against the russians, when he knew what they were doing leading up to the 2016 election? >> president obama did conduct various stern warnings and operations against the russians. i mean, it started with his in-person meeting, where he gave vladimir putin a stern warning. it continued for the first time in history. president obama utilized the red phone to issue a stern warning to the russians, told them to knock it off, continued with
economic sanctions. president obama expelled 35 diplomats, closed two facilities, and what a lot of people don't know is president obama teed up a variety of classified options. teed them up and handed them to the trump administration to affect. >> but he didn't authorize, he didn't give the go ahead to launch those operations. and the russians continue doing what they were doing. they weren't deterred and they're continuing to do it right now. >> well, we don't know if president obama authorized those operations. those operations would be classified. and it certainly is not something that would be advertised for the purpose of us not wanting to escalate the situation. the russians know what we did, just like we're watching the russians, they're watching our activities. so it is going to be interesting to see how this continues. i do think it needs to start with a consistent message from the white house and the government and we do need to help these states. >> speaking of a consistent
message, we know that in may, the white house actually eliminated the position of cybersecurity coordinator at the national security council. there also have been some major departures of cybersecurity officials at the fbi. so is that sending the right message? do the fbi -- does the fbi, does the national security council have the capability to do what it needs to do? >> so i think that's a fair question. there have been some departures. i do know the white house eliminated that position. i do think that position is important at the white house. coordinating the inner agency cybersecurity efforts is a difficult job and does require senior leadership in the white house. i was disappointed to see them dissolve that position. but i do know that team is working extremely hard every single day, probably some of the hardest-working people in the executive office building on the white house campus. at the fbi, that is a natural, natural result of people
giving -- contributing dedicated careers. those were decorated officials who served some upwards of 30-plus years. and that is just the cycle. i assure you, having walked the halls of the j. edgar hoover building and having walked the halls of an fbi field office, there are incredible men and women working, seeking the truth, investigating these matters every single day. and the fbi will continue to serve the american people. >> anthony ferrante, thanks so much for joining us. >> thanks. >> also, thanks so much for your service to the country over the years. appreciate it very much. >> thanks. just ahead, roger stone, the madam, and robert mueller. where will this new angle in the russia investigation lead? and as jurors hear testimony about paul manafort's alleged crimes, can the president effectively distance himself from his former campaign chairman?
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out exactly what robert mueller is looking for. they've known each other for about a decade. they've been friends, at points. they've been coworkers at points. roger stone worked on her campaign when she was running for new york governor in 2010, on this platform of legalizing prostitution and marijuana. and then more recently, at the end of 2016, she joined roger stone's payroll and has been helping him out with clerical work. but in all the people in this orbit that i talked to, nobody could really put their finger on when exactly they thought that kristin davis might know about roger stone that would be of interesting to mueller. >> ryan, how do you think it fits into the wider probe? >> i think the fact of her eccentric past is probably no t the big issue for the investigators. stone is known to have a lot of colorful characters around her. i think what sara said, the fact that she did this clerical work for stone, that she may have some insight into his personal dealings with other people that mueller's team is looking at, that seems more likely to be what's of interesting, similar to stone's other assistant, who
they want information from. >> and i assume they're really anxious to try to figure out precise will what stone's connection to wikileaks was, to guccifer 2.0, which the u.s. government now says was simply a front for the russian intelligence service. >> that's right. and roger stone has admitted he traded messages back and forth with gauccifer 2.0. he at times bragged about talking with julian assange during the campaign and then walked that back and said he wasn't in contact with julian assange. so the people around him and even roger stone himself are waiting t ining to be indicted. they think an indictment could be coming at some point. they say it's trumped up and roger stone has done nothing wrong, but they're also bracing for potential financial charges. they know that mueller is going through his past dealings, the work he has done, and the people he's worked with in the past. there's no telling what mueller could find along the way that he decides is worth prosecuting. >> i'm sure, sabrina, the
president is worried when he sees what's going on not just with roger stone, but with michael cohen in new york, and allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer at the trump organization, have been called to testify as well. i'm sure he's not happy about this. >> absolutely. and i think it's important to recall that although roger stone was removed from the trump campaign in its early stages, he has known trump closely for decades and he has acted as trump's most long-standing political adviser. and so i think if you look at the way in which roger stone increasingly seems to be a target of this investigation and you go through all of these contacts that he did have with the russians, you mentioned guccifer 2.0, he even took a meeting in may of 2016 with the russian national who went by the name, henry greenberg, who claimed to have damaging information about hillary clinton. i think one thing that mueller is certainly interested in is not just what were roger stone's activities and whether or not they were legal, but what specifically did the president know about what roger stone was up to at that time?
>> you know, ron brownstein, the president's legal team, they seem to be pretty confident that the president is not going to get an indictment from mueller's -- mueller's investigators. they seem to be, though, suggesting, you know what, we're going to play this out in public opinion right now. and they're trying to generate that kind of support, especially among their base. is that a safe bet on their part? >> well, look, the office of legal counsel, the justice department has twice determined that a sitting president cannot be indicted. but the first time they did it, richard nixon was in the white house. and the second time they did it, bill clinton was in the white house. each time, they had an incentive to reach that conclusion. it's possible, certainly possible that the special counsel could choose to challenge that if he believes the evidence warrants a criminal action against a sitting president. but it is more likely that they choose to take whatever they find and move it into the political arena. and i think on that front, you would have to say that the president is having one clear kind of effect on public opinion. he has mobilized and moved opinion among republicans to the point where republicans in
congress have been intimidated from really performing any kind of oversight. we're a long way before we start talking about impeachment. but today, you could be looking at oversight at many different aspects of these questions, including exactly what happened in helsinki, and rather than doing that, congressional republicans, particularly in the house, have been kind of more engaged in trying to undermine the investigation itself. so in that way, the focus on public opinion has been a success. the cost, of course, is that most americans believe the investigation is fair. the fbi is not biased against the president. that was both in the quinnipiac poll just the other week and the republicans risk, in essence, sending a message to any american who's ambivalent or complicate e-- conflicted about president trump, that they will not perform insight or constrain him in any way. >> do you think the president is going to sit down for an interview with mueller's team? >> for six or seven months, we've been -- >> going on since january, they've been talking about that, trying to work out some -- >> they really haven't made any progress. they've exchanged letters back and forth since then, and the
leaks have been, trump really wants to sit down and his lawyers are saying "no". it eventually has to come to head, right? we know from giuliani that the special counsel sent the white house a letter the other day, outlining maybe perhaps a more circumscribed set of questions. they have to make a decision now, and mueller is finally going to have to decide, does he give up hope that the white house is actual cooperating and issue a subpoena? and then there'll be a legal battle over that. just two points over what ron said. one, it's also worth noting that the prosecutor in the watergate case and in the ken starr's investigation of bill clinton, both believed that they could indict a sitting president, even though, obviously, neither did. so that issue has never been settled. but giuliani himself just said that their whole strategy is about impeachment. so they've publicly said that. >> go ahead. >> well, they want it to be about impeachment in terms of, they believe it will gin up more of their base and the other side in the midterm election. and i think, you know, we are a long way from that. but ryan's point, it just
underscores, really, how significant this fifth supreme court justice could be, on so many issues, brett kavanaugh. the questions of a subpoena, could a president be indicted? not to mention all the policy issues we're fighting, such as to revoke california's authorities on fuel economy standards, which just occurred yesterday. this -- on so many fronts, the critics of the president are counting as the courts to be a counterweight to republican-controlled congress that has been unwilling to function in any way as a counterweight, and that avenue could be significantly narrowed if this fifth supreme court justice is confirmed. >> that's an important point, indeed. we'll see what happens on that front. everybody, stick around. just ahead, a live update on that deadly fire raging in northern california. why fire crews are facing a much-harder task tonight. chicken?! chicken. chicken! that's right, candace-- new chicken creations from starkist. buffalo style chicken in a pouch-- bold choice, charlie! just tear, eat... mmmmm. and go! try all of my chicken creations! chicken!
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the agency is looking at cuts that could save more than $300 million in 2020. one cut -- reducing the number of air marshals, eliminating screening at small airports, staffing cuts at tsa headquarters and changes the benefits are also being discussed. tsa did not comment. juliette kayyem, a former official with department of homeland security under obama is concerned. >> ending security at certain airports and ending or flat lining the air marshal service are inconsistent. if you're going to decrease security at certain airports, what you would want to do is increase the presence of air marshals or other security features just in case. >> cnn revealed the most controversial cut -- eliminating screening at small airports like this one in redding, california, where bryant garrett is the manager. >> since i as the airport don't want to take on either the liability nor the cost and the
airlines don't want to take it on. >> we are the police, remain calm. >> air marshals are the last line of defense, armed agents aboard planes to prevent hijackings. critics have questioned its effectiveness but the tsa has defended the program as a deterrent. just as recently as may, the tsa defended the program. it raises the question about why the agency is discussing cuts now. cnn reached out to tsa multiple times but did not receive any response but the big question tonight is when you hear about all these cuts that are potentially big discussed here, it is a matter of the risk against aviation changing or is it that the agency under strict pressure to cut? >> excellent reporting, rene, thank you very much. breaking news next. the latest on the deadly build fire still growing in northern
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get out of hand. as fire continues to bear down on california, there is no relief in sight. after days of relative calm, high winds are fanning the flames. >> wind coming in clears the airspace so we can see what we're doing and have an aerial fire fight however it does mean increased fire activity. >> at the carr fire which has already destroyed more than 100,000 homes, hot and dry conditions have made the hillsides tinder dry with not a drop of rain in the forecast. >> what would happen is a shift in mother nature. >> in the small town of lewiston there's heavy smoke over the ridge as a non-stop cycle of helicopters drops fire retardant on the mountains. almost everyone in town has long evacuated but not james dibarello. >> my wife and dogs got packed but i stayed to do what had to be done. >> reporter: deborello has volunteered to feed their cats. and even their turkeys, too.
>> uncle james will take care of you. >> reporter: he has nothing packed and no plans to leave. >> at the wrist i'll jump in the river and let it burn over. >> reporter: armed with two water trucks and a friend, he's planning to defend his neighborhood even if flames reach town. when you look over the ridge and smee smoke, are you not afraid? >> when your number's up, your number's up. >> more than a dozen fires are still burning across the state, visible even from space. officials reporting friday morning the mendocino complex fire is now even bigger than the carr fire, threatening over 9,000 buildings. even as big flames have crossed over the ridge and toward the community of upper lake -- >> the kids have left, the grand kids have left. >> reporter: -- some like theresa pena are ignoring evacuation orders. >> i have to stay here until the flames are at my door because i got nowhere else. >> reporter: the good news for the town of lewiston is that
airports. yes, they're convenient. but if other people know there's no security there. >> sure. but if you're looking at the kind of simple screening you can get at these airports, i don't think we need that much screening. >> -- >> i got the leave there it. i'm sorry. appreciate it. thank you both. tune in sunday morning to state of the union with jack tapper talking to congressman ed royce and deval patrick. that's all sunday morning, 9:00 a.m., 12:00 p.m. eastern. our coverage continues with wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, breaking news. mueller and the madam. robert mueller's team interviews the woman who earned notoriety as the manhattan madam. the special counsel apparently wants to know about her ties to roger stone. is mueller building a case against the long-time trump ally? russian hysteria after u.s. intelligence chiefs paint a grim picture of continuing russian interference at u.s. elections. moscow responds with ridicule,
know anything about russian collusion. he didn't participate. and so far he has not been called in to to meet with mueller. >> clearly an important story. thank you very much, sara, for that report. meanwhile, prosecutors have laid out the lavish lyle steiff of paul manafort. now on day four of his trial, they're digging into details of his alleged tax and bank fraud. evan perez is over at the federal court in alexandria, virginia. evan, what's the latest? >> well, wolf, we got some of the most important testimony that we've had so far in this trial. we heard from two of paul manafort's accountant, and both testified that he did not disclose to them that he owned these foreign bank accounts that the government says were simply money that he stash aid a way, $60 million that he got paid over the years from ukrainian oligarchs and ukrainian government people that he was working for. they both testified that paul manafort and rick gates hid the fact that they had these bank
accounts, and in fact, that they thought that the money was coming in were simply payments from clients. we also heard from the first time from one of the witnesses that has been offered immunity by the government to testify against the government. cindy laporta is one of the accountants, and she described how her firm, people working for her, with her essentially fudged some of the numbers on behalf of paul manafort in order to reduce his taxes. she said, quote, i very much regretted it appears the reason why she says she did this, fudging the numbers on behalf of paul manafort was because paul manafort was a very important client to her firm, wolf. >> and what about the prosecutors? what are they saying about how manafort actually used the real estate, it was quite sensitive, the real? >> this goes to the heart of the prosecution's case against paul manafort that basically, he was lying on his tax returns, lying
to the irs in order to reduce the amount of taxes that he was paying. one of the things, according to the witness testimony we heard today was paul manafort was reporting that he was using at least a couple of the homes that he owned in new york. he was using them personal residences instead of rental property. what this did, wolf, it essentially lowered his taxes when we reported this to the irs. one of the accountants who was on the stand today described exactly how this was done, to deceive some of the banks that paul manafort was doing business with. again, part of what he is facing here are charges of bank fraud. so, again, this is central to that case. and of course now that we've heard from one of the account t accountants who is saying that they participated in what the government says was a conspiracy, we're beginning to see really what the government is trying to do here, which is that these people were helping paul manafort hide money from the government, lying to the banks in the process, wolf.
A look at breaking news, politics and reports from around the world.
tack the credibility of rick gates. rick gates was his closest deputy. he has been described often in this courtroom as his right hadn't man. and we expect that he is going to point out that he pleaded guilty to lying to the government. that's going to be some very fiery testimony when that happens next week. >> we will of course cover that closely. evan, thank you very much. joining us now, democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. he is a member of both the intelligence and the judiciary committee committees. congressman, thanks so much for joining us. i quickly want to begin with the breaking news, the special counsel robert mueller's team meeting with the so-called manhattan madam, known for her ties to roger stone. do you see roger stone as key witness in the mueller probe? >> i do, wolf. and that's because roger stone will tell you that he himself is a dirty trick center. we learned in our house intelligence investigation that he and donald trump talked
regularly, not just the years before the campaign when they had talked about him running as president in prior years, but throughout the penancesy of the 2016 election. roger stone foreshadowed that these attacks were coming of course he has changed his testimony a number of times to the house intelligence committee sthachlt have all the reason to want to know what he knew and whether he passed on his knowledge to candidate trump. >> as part of the interview he granted to your committee, the house intelligence committee, do you think he was telling the whole truth looking back? i owe you've gone through the testimony. >> no. i don't, wolf. and we had an opportunity to test his story by subpoenaing his cell phone records, his bank records, his travel records, and the republicans on the committee were completely unwilling to do that. this was a take them at their word investigation. come on, in take a seat, answer our questions, and we had no interest from the republicans in testing those stories. and now queer left with this, that our only chance of finding
out the truth is bob mueller's investigation, which the president e day seeks to shut down. i think it highlights all the more reason we need to protect that. >> was he under oath? >> he was under oath, yes. >> so do you expect an indictment by robert mueller's team against roger stone? >> it wouldn't surprise me at all, wolf, just begin because of the way he has acted and the way he has bragged about working in the past and the dirty tricks he has used on campaigns. but again, the bigger picture that i see here with roger stone is donald trump was willing as a candidate to bring on to his team so many people who either use dirty tricks, close to the russians, or demonstrated zero judgment in who they were willing to do business with. so at the very best, like donald trump, he had extremely poor judgment. but the evidence suggest there's is not really innocent explanations here. it's that those qualifications helped them get the job rather
than disqualified. >> let's turn to the trial of paul manafort, the former trump campaign chairman. how important is this trial will is ongoing right now in alexandria, virginia to robert mueller's overall russia probe? >> well, it shows thene seriousness of the probe. it's t former chairman to the president, again, it shows that donald trump was willing to bring on his team somebody who had prior business relationships with pro-russian ukrainians. again, that would disqualify most people who wanted to work on a presidential campaign. i think with this president, that was actually something that inflated the resume and helped him. so if there is a guilty plea here, wolf, i believe that it's going to build a momentum, and the american people are going to start to understand the seriousness of just how close this president has drawn us to the russians. >> well, based on what you've seen so far, congressman, how strong is the government's case against manafort? >> i don't want to make that decision.
that's the jury's decision, and unlike the president, i'm not going to try to tamp were the jury. but i think they've at least met the standards to go forward and put it in front of jury. i have faith as a former prosecutor that this jury is not going to listen to the outside noise and they're going to do the right thing and justice will be served. >> yesterday, the director of national intelligence, dan coats, said he wasn't in a position to, quote, understand fully what happened between president trump and president vladimir putin during their summit last month in helsinki. it's been clearly three weeks. shouldn't the top u.s. official here in the united states know that information by now? >> yes. and i'm not convinced that anyone in the president's cabinet knows what was said, because as we've had opportunities to ask them, they seem to not understand. ranking member adam schiff and i on the intelligence committee tried to subpoena the translator so that we could have some sense of whether national security secrets have been jeopardized. but what really concerns me,
wolf, and i thought that press conference yesterday was great. it's sad they had to do it when the president was outside of the building. but it doesn't matter if dan coates and fbi director wray are doing all they can to counter meddling. if the person who is behind the wheel, steering, if that person doesn't, then we're still helpful and vulnerable. so we need the president to understand it. and we need him to issue the directives. otherwise, i'm afraid that the russians are going to keep doing it. and to say that the president does understand it, if he did, the russians wouldn't be doing it. the reason they keep hacking and the reasons they keep doing these social misinformation programs is they believe he's given them a green light. >> he has, why do you think he has? >> because they helped him, and he likes them. and he likes people who like him. >> congressman swalwell, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. up next of after the
national security teams and intelligence warn on russia continuing to attack, can and russia adds insult to injury, ridiculing the latest u.s. intelligence warnings as nothing more than, quote, stairia. when i received the diagnoses,
jersey. what's the latest? >> president trump is taking some time off at his country club in new jersey. but the storm clouds hanging over his administration, they have also made the trip from washington. one key question for the president that he is likely to work on during this trip up to new jersey is whether to finally talk to the special counsel, robert mueller. president trump arrived for a summer vacation at his jersey golf club-facing a potential hazard that is nowhere near the putting green, the prospect of sitting down for an interview in the russia investigation. the president is receiving no shortage of advice as political strategists warn it's a trap. >> i'm not an attorney, but my political advice to the president would not be to sit down with bob mueller. the opportunity to make a misstatement potentially or potentially get caught up in the word is too great of something that could happen there. >> while the president's legal team is keeping the door open. >> i'm not going give you a lot of hope it's going toe happen, be we haven't stopped negotiating. >> at a scampaign rally in
pennsylvania, the president hardly sounded like he is warming up to the russia probe. >> now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it's a hoax, okay? >> mr. trump is still bending the truth when it comes to his relationship with the russians, telling supporters he is no friend of the kremlin. >> i tell you what, russia is very happy that trump won. that i can tell you. >> despite the fact that vladimir putin just revealed at their joint summit he wanted a trump victory. >> translator: yes, i did. yes, i did. because he talked about bringing the u.s./russia relationship back to normal. >> reporter: democrats accuse the president of being at odds with his own national security team, who warned the world russia is still trying to interfere in u.s. elections. >> the president was missing, as you said. he was not only missing from that event, the next day he calls it a hoax. and what president trump did in helsinki and what he did yesterday in calling the russian probe a hoax, it gives a green
light to mr. putin to continue his activities here in the united states. >> and as one of the president's top intelligence officials conceded, it's not fully known what mr. trump told putin behind closed doors. >> i'm not in a position to either understand fully or talk about what happened at helsinki over to the national security director here. to address that question. >> the president is still nursing his grudges with the media, dispute anything news reports that he kept the queen waiting during his visit to britain last month. >> i'm waiting. so i was about 15 minutes early, and i'm waiting with my wife, and that's fine. hey, it's the queen, right? we can wait. but i'm a little early. honestly, folks, it was such a beautiful, beautiful visit and afternoon. but they can make anything bad, because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news. >> mr. trump again turned to the issue of immigration, this time trying to defend his past
comment that mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals. >> coming down the escalator, and you remember what i said? do you remember that? and i mentioned words, i won't even mention them tonight because there is a lot of young people here. but i mentioned words. and everybody thought it was wonderful. but then about two days later, they said did he say this? did he say that? guess what? what i said is peanuts compared to what turns out to be the truth. it's peanuts. >> now a source familiar with discussions inside the president's legal team says deliberations over whether mr. trump should down with robert mueller have been going on for months. the president is aware of all the risks and the president has been advised that talking to the special prosecutor would be a good thing for the institution of the presidency. wolf, it is widely expected rudy giuliani will make the trip to bedminster to talk with the president about all of this. it is getting to be crunch time for making this critical
decision. >> good point. jim acosta, thank you very much. also breaking tonight, russia is responding to the extraordinary warning from u.s. national security intelligence chiefs about moscow's efforts to independent fear in the upcoming midterm elections here in the united states. our senior international correspondent matthew chance is working the story from moscow for us. so matthew, what are the russians saying? >> well, as you might expect, wolf, the russians are pouring scorn on this idea that they had anything to do with manipulating the political environment inside the united states, particularly through social media, saying that they are expressing regret that this's has even been made by u.s. officials. the foreign ministry spokeswoman here in moscow issuing a statement saying this. the two-year hysteria around the alleged interference in u.s. elections which did not happen
mocks the whole political system of the united states representing democracy there as a house of cards. and so some of that language very reminiscent of the kind of language we heard a few moments ago coming from the presidents of the united states. what we do know is this is just the latest installment in a whole series, long-running series of denials by the russian government if they had anything to do with election manipulation, or manipulating the political atmosphere inside the united states. it comes, remember, as well as it's emerged there has been a russian spy at the heart of the u.s. embassy here in moscow, the russian capital. russian officials asked about this today. she worked at the embassy for ten years. she was firely apparently after being discovered a year ago. they were asked. we have no idea what or who is being talked about, but if the americans have any data they would like to share with us, we would be very happy to share
discussing this we with them, almost with a wink. let's look at what sources, how you've gathered your intelligence knowing full well the u.s. diplomats here are going to do nothing of the sort, wolf. >> good point as well. matthew chance in moscow, thank you. there is more breaking news. the special counsel's team questions the woman known as the manhattan madam, a friend of long-time trump confidante roger stone. what does this mean for the mueller investigation? and. and prosecutors focusing in on paul manafort's alleged financial crimes as witnesses testify the former trump campaign chairman was ocooking the books. stay with us. you're in "the situation room."
comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. we're following multiple breaking stories right now, including sources confirming that the special counsel robert mueller's investigators have questioned a woman once known as the manhattan madam. she is a close friend of trump confidante roger stone. let's bring in our political legal and national security experts to assess. susan hennessey, how does this fit in, this manhattan madam development into the broader russia investigation? >> so this woman kristen davis has a long-standing relationship with roger stone. he actually was even her campaign strategist in a 2010 race for the new york governor, and she worked for him in 2016. but from the outside we actually have no idea how this individual might be connected to the russia story. what that tells us is there are a lot of things that robert mueller knows that we don't
know. so in special counsel filings, they have said there are multiple nonpublic lines of inquiry. that's their way of saying there is not just facts you don't know, there are entire matters being investigated that the public doesn't know about. >> what does it say they're interviewing her before they interview roger stone? >> it's not uncommon in these investigations to start at the edges and work your way into the bulls-eye. if roger stone really is the target of this investigation, what we could expect to see over time is individuals who are increasingly close to him being interviewed. that's a way for robert mueller's team to ensure they have the full story, a full understanding of what occurred before they finally sit down with stone. >> a long-time confidante of president trump's. could he have valuable information in this overall russia investigation? >> susan was talking and saying you work out at the edges and you work in to people who have very close relationships with roger stone. that's president trump. he has been working with roger stone for the better part of two decades in politics and has used him as a strategist.
i do think this should probably be alarming in some sense for the trump team that mueller may be interested in somebody who has such a close relationship with stone. i don't think if stone is a target, he may not be the only target in this investigation. and until we know more about this line of inquiry, i don't know that we can surmise very much. >> i'm sure the president always hates when they get closer and closer to people who have known and worked him for such a long time, like michael cohen, allen weisenbe weisenberg. >> see if he wants the talk to his children or son-in-law? >> those are important developments. could stone be a key witness in all of this? >> it's possible. i mean, it depends on the question that investigators are trying to answer, wolf. and of course there is a lot we don't know about the direction or the directions they might be going. but roger stone of course have a great deal of information,
unique information about president trump. having worked with him very closely in the early stages of the campaign and before that, as an informal adviser to trump, he essentially helped him launch his career. and then they spoke throughout the campaign. so stone would have a lot of information about trump specifically. but he wasn't a part of the formal campaign infrastructure. he wasn't talking frequently with some of the other senior campaign staff. so it would be specifically information related to the president in this case, that he could potentially offer. >> i assume they're trying to figure out if stone actually conspired, koomted, colluded, whatever word you want the use with the russians as part of this whole investigation. you know, shawn turner, what does it tell you that the mueller team itself is questioning this manhattan madam, this friend of roger stone instead of detailing it out to the u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york as they've done with others or what's going on in the eastern district of virginia right now.
>> yeah, well, i think it speaks to what we all know about robert mueller. he is a seasoned investigator who knows how to do this. he understands that it's often the case that people around the target of investigation who are the most unlikely witnesses are people who have the most valuable information. we also knows that he has to get this right. robert mueller is the kind of person that asks questions he already knows the answer to. i think by doing this himself and making sure his own team does it, what that tells me is he has a sense of the pick dhaer is coming together, and he knows what those various pieces are, and he is talking to her himself because he absolutely knows he has to ask the right questions in the right way to get to the information that he probably already knows exists. >> one thing we do know is that robert mueller doesn't do anything without a reason. >> as you were going to say? >> i was just going say that the other relationship of course is one between roger stone and paul manafort. they have had regulations going back too. obviously the current paul manafort case is not we know tied directly to the notion of russian collusion.
but it is another nexus of relations that exists. >> what has jumped out in the first few days of the paul manafort trial? >> i think the remarkable thing is just the strength of the case against manafort, the degree of witness, documentation that we've seen. i think it shows the degree to which going to trial is a hail mary here you. really have to ask yourself, maybe paul manafort actually thinks he's going to be acquitted. maybe he really believes he is innocent. you have to ask the question whether his play here is to hold the line and ultimately hope president trump pardons him? >> you think that's what he is hoping for? >> potentially. but donald trump in public in making statements about paul manafort has suggest head wasn't an important player in the campaign. certainly hasn't suggested he maintains any feeling of loyalty toward paul manafort. so it does seem like a bit of a hail mary that paul manafort would believe that the president could potentially pardon him. but if he has this menu of bad choices in front of him, maybe that's the least bad among them. >> he did suggest the other day, the president, that manafort was
being treated worse than al capone. >> shea bit player in the campaign with this, nothing to do with russia, but can't stop watching coverage of the manafort trial. i compare to al capone and say he has been treated unfairly. the president has been a little inconsistent when talking about manafort. we know he's completely consumed by the coverage of this trial. i can't think of another explanation other than paul manafort is waiting for a pardon because imagine the maximum pressure that's on him right now, and he has been remaining steadfast. >> so far. we'll see what happens. stick around. there is more we're watching. we'll take a quick break. we'll be right back. time. tap one little bumper and up go your rates. what good is your insurance if you get punished for using it? news flash: nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty mutual insurance.
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we're back with our political and national security experts. a big deal at the white house yesterday. all the top national security intelligence officials, they were there. they spoke about what russia did in 2016, what they're doing right now looking ahead to the midterm elections. it was a powerful statement, very coordinated. then a couple hours later, the president spoke at a big political rally for more than an hour in pennsylvania and said this. >> now we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it's a hoax, okay? i'll tell you what. russia's very unhappy that trump won. >> even though putin said that they wanted trump to win. it was a very, very totally different attack that the
leadership of the national intelligence community gave than what the president said. he didn't even refer to what they said earlier in the day. >> this must be the rare occasion when president trump was tuned in to television, because that. the was on every channel streaming live for the american people, but the president didn't get the message. it's kind of amazing to think about. and at the same time, that briefing couldn't have happened without the president's endorsement in some way. they couldn't have just gone out there and given the message that they did and the way that they did without some level of buy-in from the president. and so on the one hand, he wanted people to hear that from his intelligence chiefs. but on the other hand, goes out and then completely contradicts the message in addition to not supporting the message himself either in person or on twitter or some of the other vehicles he has to communicate with people. >> and the expression that said the buck stops with the national security team. because he clearly is hoping that by putting out that show of force, that that's going to give
him cover that he's dealing with the issue, but that he can go off and still say the investigation into exactly the kind of activity that the national security officials are trying to prevent is a hoax. you can't have it both ways and the president is trying to do so. >> the real concern here is the fact that the president and his national security team are sending two completely diametrically opposed messages to the american public. and the question who do you believe. some of the president's supporters tell us don't look hat the president says. look hat the president does. that leads us to think should we actually listen to the president's team who are actually telling us something completely opposite from what the president does. they really need to work on getting this message coordinated because it's unfair to the american people. >> they seem to be talking to the american public, the leadership of the national security team here in washington. and the president still seems to be talking to putin. >> exactly. and you to think about what message vladimir putin might be receiving. he got tremendous payoff from his last round of election interference. we now have reports that they're
at it again. whenever you're talking about deterrents, changing the calculation of your adversaries. if you were vladimir putin who by all accounts is a rational actor, would you be saying this is the commander in chief who is going to take strong punitive action if i engage in this behavior again or would you think he has given me a wink, and i can get away with pretty much whatever interto. >> i want to play a speech for you susan. this is a speech shortly after inauguration before a joint session of congress. listen to what he said. >> according to data provided by the department of justice, the vast majority of individuals convicted of terrorism and terrorism-related offenses since 9/11 came here from outside of our country. >> but your colleague benjamin witnesses over at law fair, he did some research. he filed a freedom of information request with the justice department for information to back up that assertion, that claim by the president. he said he received a response that said no responsive records were located.
tell us why this is significant. >> it's significant because this is evidence that the president of the united states stood in front of congress and lied about an important national security issue, and that is the department of justice saying essentially confirming that, right? the president said that he had been provided data to back up his this assertion. now anyone who works in this field understood that that wasn't true, understood the public record from the beginning. but there is this temptation with donald trump to just move on from the lies, right? he says it. it gets a little bit of coverage, and then sort of doing the spade work of proving it, of getting the department of justice to actually admit that it couldn't have shared the data with him because the data didn't exist in the first place takes a lot of time and resources, but it still is important to develop that factual record to show that the president is lying. >> stand by, everybody. there is more news we're following. is kim jong-un living up to the agreements he made with trump? very, very differing views that are emerging within the trump administration. the president saying one thing and the secretary of state
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comes as very differing views on north korea are emerging within the trump administration. >> good evening, wolf. that's exactly right. i don't think anyone is surprised that president trump is still speaking glowingly about making a deal with kim. but one of his closest advisers now warning, it may not be that easy. secretary of state mike pompeo, who leads the north korean negotiations, is now expressing caution over kim jong-un's commitment to give up nuclear weapons, just one day after president trump praised the north korean leader. pompeo telling reporters, chairman kim made a commitment to denuclearize. to the extent they are beying in -- behaving in a manner inconsistent with that, we can see we still have a ways to go to achieve the ultimate outcome we're looking for. president trump insisting it's all going well with kim. >> what i did with north korea was great. i got along great with chairman
kim. i got along great. that's a good thing, not a bad thing, by the way. >> reporter: but there is still no denuclearization agreement and pompeo revealing days ago, kim is holding on to his vital weapons capabilities. >> yes, they continue to produce phfissile material. >> what kim is doing so far is not seen as significant by u.s. intelligence. test tunnels were blown up, but the u.s. believes the explosions were superficial and the tunnels could be rebuilt. some destruction of facilities seen in commercial satellite imagery is at a largely out of date launch station. the worry, kim is using the nearly two months since singapore to keep building warheads and missiles capable of attacking the u.s., and the concern is kim will never declare the full scope of it all. now, eavesdropping and intercepting kim's communications may be the only way to learn the truth, some officials say.
trump has applauded the return of 55 boxes of remains presumed to be americans killed in the war, tweeting, thank you to chairman kim jong-un for keeping your word. and vice president mike pence used the return of remains as a key marker. >> we see today as tangible progress in our efforts to achieve peace on the korean peninsula. >> reporter: but it may take years to identify all of the remains returned and momentum towards denuclearization could be slowing. >> one of north korea's game plans has always been to stretch out the game, hoping for the clock to run out. in this case, the longer the negotiations drag on, the less resolve the u.s. may have. >> it's been just about one year since president trump's famous fire and fury remarks. now, u.s. troops might be headed back to north korea to help search for more u.s. war remains. and if they go, their security will be provided by north korean
troops. wolf? >> let's not forget, barbara, that on june 13th, right after the summit in singapore with kim jong-un, the president tweeted this. let me put it up there. he said, just landed a long trip, but everyone can now feel much safer than the day i took office. there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea. so what he said then clearly in contrast to what pompeo and others are saying right now. still a nuclear threat from north korea. barbara starr, thank you very much. coming up, the breaking news. robert mueller's team interviews the woman who earned notoriety as the so-called manhattan madame. the special counsel apparently wants to know about her ties to roger stone. is mueller building a case against the longtime trump ally?
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Analysis and discussion of the day's top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence O'Donnell.
general under president clinton and former federal prosecutor. julia, i will have you play a few roles for me tonight because you do also cover the justice department. jeff sessions in the room with the president when he is told that robert mueller is going to be special counsel, according to bloomberg news. jeff sessions offered his rec resignation in that moment. >> i think the idea that robert mueller had been appointed was pretty obvious right there. he saw the writing on the wall, that it was because he had recused himself from this investigation that this had been allowed to happen, that rod rosenstein was allowed to appoint this special counsel. the way we all see it and the logical way to see it is the appointment of robert mueller was because of the firing of jim comey. it was actually the president's decision to fire jim comey, not jeff sessions' decision. but knowing donald trump and i think jeff sessions had a good
read on the man, he knew he would also be in trouble. we look back the last summer and the number of times we were on sessions watch and the people i talked to at the justice department said he will hang on by his fingernails for this job. he thought this was his last role in politics. it is one he wanted to get to for a long time. his former law enforcement days are some of the days he holds most dearly. and he saw this as his last big role and really his place to be able to push through a lot of the decisions, a lot of these policies on immigration and the like. he was going to hold on to it for as long as he could. he did see this would be the thing that would fracture the relationship. it has for some time. we saw the president attack jeff sessions just this week. >> harry, the president obviously doesn't like robert mueller. we have known that for some time. but he does keep bringing up what he perceives as a bias that he almost offered him the fbi
director job, that he had some sort of dispute over fees at one of his clubs. could either of those things be considered bias? >> so no. we already know they're not considered because the doj gave him a clean bill of health. but it is interesting because it is the second mueller is appointed that sessions realizes, uh-oh. that's before all these make way charges of 13 angry democrats, et cetera. who is bob mueller in that second that you just have the revelation that he's been appointed? he is the best, most dogged, most methodical, most honest prosecutor of his generation. that's who he is then. right away the problem with him is not bias. it is effectiveness. which has turned out, in fact, to be the problem. >> let's talk about manafort for a second and go back to julia one more time. julia, manafort's trial has just now ended its first week.
it focussed a lot around what we heard from the accountant today talking about how she knew she was filing incorrect taxes. but also there was that $15,000 ostrich coat, that bomber jacket. the prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender that didn't care about cheating the government and the american people in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. how is the defense doing? >> not as well, katie. right now we're seeing a list of prosecution witnesses. they lay out a pattern of who paul manafort is. he spent a will the of money on his lifestyle and is so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his income in order to get bank loans and then deflate his income in order to get a deal on taxes. he didn't care who he took down in the process and he didn't
care what kind of dirty characters he had to work with in order to get there. we will see now going forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly gates. we now know he will testify. the prosecution said yesterday they have ever reason to bring him forward. they want to paint him as the lynch pin in the prosecution's argument and they want to show he is not someone that can be trusted. for those reasons we actually believe that the prosecution won't wait until the end to bring up rick gates. may bring him up early next week so he isn't the last thing in jurors minds when they go to deliberate. another thing that i don't think went over very well judging by how brief their questions were is they wanted to show that paul manafort had left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that might want to look into this. that with his first accountant who has not gotten immunity because he didn't do anything
wrong. he refused to lie for paul manafort. he was basically able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didn't know he had foreign bank accounts. the defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs if his accountant didn't know it, and this is important, and if the irs didn't want to do an audit and bring a civil case against paul manafort, why all these years later is a justice department bringing a serious criminal case? but it doesn't seem to be holding up as well as they would like, particularly because bread crumbs don't leave you directly to 30 foreign bank accounts around the world. it's harder to get there. >> even a pardon from president trump to paul manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. even a pardon may not entirely be a get owl of jail free card. there are a host of
system. and then the other reason, katie, that i would suggest might impact paul manafort's thinking about whether he wants to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. we know the judge doesn't like that word. but what have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them? we have seen poisoning in the u.k. and i think paul manafort could legit have concerns for his safety. >> so manafort's trial is about financial crimes, but it is part of a larger russia investigation. one of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we have news on today, the manhattan madam, kristin davis, the woman charged in the elliot spitzer can sdsca
many years ago has spoken to mueller's team. this is a long-time friend and associate of mine. i am the god father to her two-year-old son. she knows nothing about alleged russian collusion or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. another stone aid has been ordered to speak with robert mueller. this man was trying to not speak with him. one of his aids was trying to say that the special counsel's probe was too wide and he shouldn't have to follow a subpoena. well, a court has testified or has ruled that he should have to talk to robert mueller and he should do so quickly. harry, what are these two people -- how do they have
anything to do with this? and what does this mean for roger stone? >> yeah. it is all about stone. look, the madam is a -- they're a colorful couple. but it is because of their long-standing friendship they are zeroing in on stone. b miller is kind of two-stone as gates was to manafort. he's the real right-hand man. he offered this constitutional argument, which is a real loser, basically saying mueller has no authority to do anything, the same thing manafort tried in edva. he will have some real information to provide. but the main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as no surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didn't name him because doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted
with him. so mueller is obviously in trying to stitch up russia and the u.s. looking very hard at stone. >> and whether or not stone was a potential back channel. julia, i know from reporting have i done with others here that the witnesses that robert mueller is so far spoken to, they have been asked by mueller's team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. and what did roger stone know? what was he doing? did he really leave the campaign in 2015? stone says he quit. the trump team said he was fired. but did he really leave or was there some sort of unofficial role that he was playing behind the scenes? was he potential in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump? why did donald trump say, russia, if you are listening, find hillary clinton's e-mails. it seems like and sam nunberg
will tell you this, it seems like they are targeting stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. is that making too broad an assumption? >> this is why i love your reporting on this. but it doesn't seem that hard to connect that we know from indictments that have already been brought forward by the special counsel that robert mueller is interested in and honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media. they wanted to hack into the dnc, hillary clinton e-mails and use that information to also influence our election. and a huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through cambridge, as well as the leaks of those hacks they just talked about through wikileaks. roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those different worlds. he was very closely tied to the trump campaign. we have to look across the way
they're painting these characters, the same way they are talking about paul manafort and trial. these are people who have been in republican poll tiitics for time. but they haven't been carrying the moral backbone of the party. they believe that the ends justify the means. i think just by the pointed questions that you have reported on, the interviews you have done, it is so obvious that mueller isn't just beating around the bush and seeing what might come out here, he is really targeting those essential questions. >> roger stone was not in mainstream politics. neither was paul manafort for that matter. yet, they somehow all managed to find donald trump's team. thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. >> thanks, katie. >> coming up, the washington post is reporting tonight that the alleged russian agent cozied up to a trump adviser the final weeks of the 2016 campaign.
the reporter who broke that story will join us right after this. and later, a federal judge says he will order the trump administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. that's coming up. gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea
trump's orbit than previously known. she was in jail awaiting trial after she was charged with illegally trying to influence u.s. politics for the kremlin. tonight the washington post reports that she sought out interactions with j.d. gordon who served for six months as the trump campaign's director of national security before leaving in august 2016 and being offered a role in the trump transition effort. the two exchanged several e-mails in september and october 2016 culminating in an invitation from gordon to attend a concert by the rock band styx in washington. i can't make that up. gordon also invited butima to attend his birthday party. >> joining us is the reporter that broke this story. i'm sorry i am laughing but inviting her to a styx concert
and his birthday party is a funny story. here is what j.d. gordon told you tonight. from everything i have seen or read, everything i have read since her arrest last month, it seems that this is basically a sensationized bait click story trying to scheme republicans and nra members she reportedly encounters over the past few years. i wonder which prominent republican political figures she has not come across. i got to tell you from the photos i have seen, she has been standing next to some prominent political figures, including former presidential candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. what makes the interaction with j.d. gordon so significant? >> well, i think part of it is his connection to the trump
campaign and it's clear from e-mails that were described to us that that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. she apparently met j.d. gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. she was with the republican operative she was apparently dating. and paul then sent an e-mail both to j.d. and to ms. butina after the event, reconnecting them and describing them to one another. and the way he described j.d. was to say this is a person who is very important in the trump transition. he's the kind of person that all the right people listen to his advice on international policy. so it did seem that the trump connection was part of why she was making contact with him. >> let me ask you more about the trump campaign foreign policy advisers. they were not visible on the campaign, not really.
people like george pop d, these names seem to come out of -- not come out of nowhere. the trump campaign was pressured to release a list of who was advising him. and at the time, considering that nobody was answering the phone and nobody made appearances, it felt like these people were just ran don people they put on a list and sent to reporters. now it looks like there is something more there. given that carter was somebody that the intelligence community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. the one who it's reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on hillary clinton and now j.d. gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian
influence campaign. >> yeah. i have done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and george p. in particular. one of the things that struck me about the two of them is they aggressively sought out the connection with the trump campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding figures they could taut as foreign policy advisers. we did a story once quoting trump adviser at the time saying, basically, anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. >> yeah. >> and people like carter were people with a pulse that stepped forward and said choose us. >> the day i saw george's picture, i was taken aback. i did not expect to see somebody so young. harry, what stands out to you about this. >> speaking of so young, she's 29. he's 50. so we have again the sort of vanity of older man.
for historians of political scanda scandals, this is the exact ages of "monkey business time" and the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. but what stands out to me is you said it, you know, what is the defense of j.d. gordon? >> i don't know if there is a prominent republican political official she hasn't met with. she's penetrating anywhere and everybody she can with the help of this republican operative and, as you say, a lover of keith erickson. this is not just one week little story and episode. but she really got around. >> harry, just really quickly, could this new information, they know about most things, but say they didn't know about it, is
this the sort of thing that could prompt them to call her in for questioning? >> well, she's arrested, so yeah. >> obviously. >> she will have enormous pressure on her. they'll talk to her. but there is some figures in the campaign in her wide circle, and they will zero in like gordon. we already knew of a couple others. that's what will interest them, the couple people from the campaign, the mass ck maskerade afterwards. >> a federal judge gave a reminder about the separation of the children from their parents and who is to blame for it. the fact is, there are over ninety-six hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding.
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many of these parents were removed from the country without their child. all of this is the result of the government separation and then inability and failure to track and reunite. and the reality is that for every parent who is not located, there will be a permanently or fanned child. that is 100% the responsibility of the administration. that same judge is now ordering the white house to designate a person or team within the administration to take control of the reunification process. joining us now is maria kumar and president of the center for american progress. she was also hillary clinton's policy director during the 2008 presidential campaign. there still isn't somebody in charge of this. the court is ordering them to get somebody in charge of the reuniting.
>> yes. i mean, we have been going through this saga for months. more importantly, these children have been going through this pain and misery at the hands of the trump administration for months. and every night that these children do not know where their parents are is an unaccepted atrocity. and the reality is ivanka trump said yesterday the family separation policy was a true low point for her. she is a senior adviser to the president of the united states. she works in the white house. i suggest if this is a low point for her and she actually cares about this she figures out, along with the white house chief of staff and everybody in the white house, how to address this problem. i mean, the reality that the government did not track the parents along with their children and have no simple way of identifying the parents even though they may have already been deported is an outrage and needs to be addressed not next
week, not tomorrow. it needs to be addressed now. >> consider this. there is no analysis of immigration data that finds parents were targeted. parents were targeted under this zero tolerance policy. this is from the transactional records access clearinghouse at syracuse university. they found that u.s. border authorities chose to prosecute adults with kids coming across the border by themselves. that same analysis found that only 32% of all immigrants caught crossing the border were charged with entering the u.s. illegally that month, an indication that it was not a blanket policy, but a targeted effort directed at parents with kids. let me repeat that, that they're finding from this analysis that the adults coming over alone were treated differently and better, it seems, than the adults coming over with kids. >> okay. this demonstrates that the trump administration was trying to
exact maximum pain to the people most vulnerable. the families traversed three to four countries to get here to give their children a better shot. and the trump administration, when they said they were going to do zero tolerance, it wasn't blanketed, it was phony. it was targeted at children. there was targeted at families. what they did is they turned around and put these children and babies in cages. there is not going to be a remedy in the near future to make sure these children are not only unified with their families but also receiving the medical attention because the trauma we're starting to hear is happening to these children. some of the children don't want to speak outloud. some of them follows their parents from room to room. some are so afraid they are not going to see their parents. and there are others that are plain angry. but the fact that the attorney general jeff sessions staired into the camera to the american people and said he was going to
establish a zero tolerance deterrence policy now only to find that it wasn't zero tolerance, that it was only aimed at the most vulnerable, at parents and children, should be a reminder to the american people of the cruelty of this administration. when ivanka trump looks at the american people and says this is something that he is painfully aware and believes that we should not be doing family separation, i agree 100% with her. she should be looking into the president's sites and see if they are going to do something. >> hold on, though. >> and this nonses that they're telling you, shame on them because the federal government's responsibility. >> hold on. i want to zero in on one point. the jeff sessions announced this policy in the spring. >> that's right. >> and then when the policy was backfiring and they were getting all of the negative headlines
and the pictures looked bad but the lives were actually much worse. >> right. >> they said over and over again this administration, others in the administration said this was not a policy. this was not a policy. this was not a policy. now to see this analysis not only was it a policy, but it was a policy that was aimed at parents, not just at anybody crossing the border but parents specifically. >> cruel intentioned. >> that's right. >> what's really curious is that one of the largest security companies that basically provided security guards in afghanistan for the different government detentions they had in that country under u.s. control, they received a government contract two weeks before this policy of family separation were announced. they were the ones that were basically housing children not in accommodating facilities. basically, they have discovered they were in the middle of phoenix. they were housing them in just regular office buildings that didn't have kitchens, that only
had one bathroom that held these toddlers for three and a half weeks without having them go outside. these individuals ended up getting over $200 million contract two weeks prior to this family separation policy. it is outrageous. >> remarkable. you are going to stay with us. hold on. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up, if you don't fully understand what happened in the meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin, you're not alone. neither does the director of national intelligence. stay with us. when my hot water heater failed, she was pregnant, in-laws were coming,
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the president of the united states is at odds with his top intel geps ligence officials. dni director dan coats, secretary of homeland security, national security adviser and nsa director addressed russian interference in the u.s. political system. their message was clear. russian attempts to interfere in the 2018 elections are real and ongoing. but just six hours later, six hours, donald trump contradicted his own intel dependence officials at a rally in pennsylvania. >> i had a great meeting with putin. we discussed everything. i had a great meeting. >> the russians are looking for every opportunity to continue their persuasive efforts to undermine our values. >> russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you.
but i got along great with putin. >> as i have said consistently, russia attempted to interfere with the last election and continues to engage and malign influence operations to this day. >> now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it is a hoax. >> we acknowledge the threat is real. it is continuing and we're doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. >> it is almost has if there are two administrations. one led by grown ups. the other led by a man who wants to be best buds with our attacker or as jennifer rue bin writes. no matter how hard they sidestep or try to put words in donald trump's mouth, trump never fails to embarrass them. he never accepted he got russian help and he is not about to make a personal all-out push to stop it in 2018. there are only 95 dayselections.
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meddling a prayerty. >> i'm not in a position to understand full y or talk about what happened at is evan mcm , mcmullen. let's start with you. what does it take for that sort of scene to happen on thursday, for all of those national security heads to come out to the press briefing room and address not just the reporters there but the general public? what does it take to get them to do that? >> well, i think, first of all you have these national security leaders who generally understand this kind of things needs to be communicated to the american people. the american people need to understand what kind of threat we're facing so that they can support our leaders as they hopefully do the right thing or elect leaders in congress specifically who will do the right thing, who will support sanctions that are strong enough to deter russia. but i think what's also
happening, my read of it anyway, as we get closer to the mid-terms and as it becomes clear to the american people that the russians did attack our election and did use the republican party especially through its candidate, donald trump, to make the attack and now the republican party is sort of lying down on the job or its elected leaders, i think there's got to be increasing pressure to show the american people that the administration on some level is trying to do the right thing. that's why i think those national security leaders end up on the podium in the pressroom, even though six hours later the president gets up and says it's a hoax. he's keeping them in the dark and brainwashed whereas the republicans who are concerned by donald trump's open betrayal of the country in helsinki are seeing, okay, part of the administration is doing the right thing. maybe i can still vote republican. >> do you think they're in the dark and brainwashed? >> i think it's time for us to start thinking about some of the
base being brainwashed. there's this qanon, this conspiracy theory. the conspiracy theories on the far right are growing and spreading and becoming less part of the fringe discourse and working their way into the main stream. it's becoming more of the case. and in my mind that's a piece of brainwashing. i mean we're talking about people existing in altuernative information environments that have no bearing on fact or reason. and that's where some of his base is. >> it is almost like there are two administration. one led by grown ups like those national security advisers you just saw, and the other one led by donald trump, a man who wants to bear hug the guy who attacked our democracy. >> yeah, i mean, just think about the fact that we had all those leaders of our intelligence community, a leader of the fbi, the dni, all walk
out and make the statements they did. and of course, it's not just their work. they are basing this on the work of hundreds if not thousands of intelligence people, you know, working under the cia, the fbi, et cetera, gathering intelligence about the threat our country faces right now. and then hours later donald trump continues with the language of a russian hoax. just weeks after vladimir putin said that he wanted trump to win and donald trump said that he basically believed vladimir putin over the people arrayed at the white house podium yesterday. and i think the reality of this is if you are concerned about the threat that exists from russia, not just what they've done in the past but what they are doing today and what they
will do in the future, you cannot count on the president of the united states. we have an extraordinary moment when there's really two administrations. there's the president trump himself and then the intelligence community, and they have really leaned up just as opposed to him on this fundamental issue. >> so the question needs to be asked. is the administration concerned about sending mixed messages to russia? here's what one of the strategic communications director told kristen walker. >> president trump last night at his rally said the russian investigation is a hoax. doesn't that undercut -- >> thought at all. i think we made it very clear the president last may in 2017 directed the administration to be tough and strengthen cyber security measures. >> are you concerned, though, it sends a mixed message to russia? >> no, not at all. the only one sending mixed messages are the media. >> it's only the media. >> i mean, this is the talking point every single day which is we're all supposed to just
basically ignore what donald trump says. sarah huckabee sanders says this on occasion, the white house strategy communications strategy is to just actually -- the broad public except for their base is supposed to ignore what the president says, but his base is supposed to take everything he says literally. i mean, it's ridiculous and outrageous that we have this kind of thingae about, you know, not a partisan battle or just two sides of a debate on taxes or something. this is about america's national security. this is about our elections and democracy. and the fact that the white house, the president of the united states just cannot make the statement about the threat that exists from russia is ridiculous and shows that he's got -- it makes people think they have something on him. >> let me ask this question of you, evan. can our intelligence community, can our agencies effectively push back against russian
interference, the cyber warfare if the president's not onboard? >> they can do a lot, but they can't do enough. what really needs to happen here is deterrence. because we're never going to be able to block every cyber intrusion and disinformation campaign. you just can't do it, so you've to deter. and deterrence the best vehicle for that is through sanctions. that has to be done by congress, which is why the mid-terms are so critical. >> evan mcmullen, good to see you. tonight's "last word" is next.
Chris Hayes discusses the day's top news.
reporters, julia ainsley and tyranny snead. >> we have been going back and forth. and i thought ken had the exciting stuff. but i think i had the better day. where exactly paful manafort lied. one man who said he was asked to lie by paul manafort when he had e-mails showing that he was asked to lie and say that a residence that paul manafort owned in new york was a personal residence for the manaforts and not a business rental as it was. he wanted him to lie because he was trying to change his financial situation to get more loans. then we saw another tax
preparer, cindy laporta. and she, there is a reason she had immunity because she said she was disturbed and she eventually drew a line and stopped doing this. but never wanted to report it because she didn't want to open up her firm to litigation. there is a pattern, rick gates and paul manafort worked hand in glove. it was not rick gates. and that also time and time again, paul manafort both personally and his own individual tax returns and his company try to hide and obfuscate what his financial situation was. whether he was trying to act like he had more money to get more loans or erase money off
wanted to keep up his image. desperate to hold on to this kind of pseudopower that he had amassed around him and i think they are going to want to spell that out as we move into the mueller probe that he was desperate. why did he work for the trump campaign for free? >> what about the defense? they don't have much to work with factually. what was their approach today? >> as you said, they don't have a lot to work with. spent a lot of time asking vendors, the tax preparers, did you work with rick gates, wasn't he handling all of this. wasn't he always telling you to talk to rick gates.
lavish lifestyle and failed to put them on his taxes. as we have discussed before, paper cases are a lot safer. you don't have to worry about a witness going south. will he testify remains a question because the evidence is coming in so well for the prosecution. >> i totally agree. that the defense that the defense put on in their opening is just falling apart. they are not able to substantiate this is all gates' fault. they are both cc'd on everything. and both in conference calls. >> there was an e-mail in evidence today in which the tax
preparer says hey, do you have any foreign bank accounts and he writes back no. that is pretty clear. >> you can't get any clearer than this. whatever defense theory they had is going down the toilet today. he is gone in this case. and i agree with barbara. they have got the conspiring on e-mails, and phone calls with the accountants. >> there was a sidebar, because it reminded me of a defense rudy giuliani talking about the president. he says, it can't be obstruction, he is doing it in broad daylight.
the lawyer says only a fool can give that kind of information to an accountant if he is trying to conceal the fashion. there is a trail and these documents could lead to the truth in that. and someone who intended to violate the law would not have done that. inconsistent with someone who would want to violate the law. >> the person sitting next to me said, wow, if that's the best argument he has, he is in trouble. the fact that paul manafort had to disclose to his accountant, he told them they were clients not his own entities. so about three steps removed that he is disclosing this. if that is the best argument that they have, i agree with this spectator, they are in trouble. >> this is a mueller prosecution. we have that lurking in the
background. it doesn't have to do with the trump campaign, or the collusion. you can't but look at it and say this guy was so desperate. so desperate there is an e-mail in there where he is trying to basically squeeze his daughter over furniture purchases. he writes a stern e-mail. that same dude during this period goes and works for free on the trump campaign. >> nothing is for free. let's start with that premise. what he was doing was also trying to ingratiate himself with various oligarchs. offering to provide them updates on the campaign. that was one of the people that was providing him with all of that money during that time period. >> remember, the e-mail when he gets a job, he turns around and
goes to kilimnick who is his deputy in ukraine, how do we use to get whole. has he seen. >> the exact same thing. there was a motive to his madness here. >> barbara, what is your sense of this trial. moved through the witnesses quickly. what do you see for next week? >> well, maybe we will or maybe we won't see rick gates. they are teeing up a summary witness. for many witnesses who have testified, a chart that has not been published to the jury. and have been asked have you verified the numbers in the chart. to sort of make it crystal clear
to the jury what these numbers mean. what the numbers were going in and what were going out. we are likely to see that coming out next week. >> someone to tabulate it all. here is the evidence, and here is what we are able to make out of it. >> they heard the raw evidence and it could be difficult to keep up. long days, and tedious. line 17, line 22. i can imagine having a summary witness in the form of an fbi or irs agent who pulls together the relevant numbers they have heard about. >> i am wrapped. i am on it. thank you both. next, why a woman known as manhattan madam spoke with robert mueller's special counsel
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a. once upon a time in the new york city in the tabloids no bigger story than the manhattan madam scandal. the madam was kristin davis. ran a high profile sex service. wednesday, kristin davis met with the team of robert mueller. she is a good friend of roger stone. >> the key difference between the mta and my former escort agency was that i ran one set of books. >> roger stone has been making
super super weird instagram post about davis with her child. why do fbi agents dispatched by robert mueller keep asking my friends if i am the father of this baby. in a statement today stone said kristin davis is a long time friend of associate of mine. i am the god father to her 2-year-old son. joining me to help understand what is going on is michael issi koff. what is going on? >> i can attest that kristin davis was very close to roger stone at the crucial period that mueller is looking at. i remember interviewing roger stone at the office of yahoo and
kristin davis showed up with him and they left together. so you know, clearly what is interesting here to me is that mueller obviously -- stone obviously remains clearly a subject of mueller's investigation. mueller has farmed out other aspects that he has come across such as michael cohen's taxi stuff and the illegal election money to the southern district in new york. he hasn't done that with roger stone. when that indictment came out a couple of weeks ago about the hacking of the dnc, there was explicit reference to stone. somebody who was in regular touch with donald trump during the 2016 campaign and was in
communication with guccifer 2.0. most likely this relates to information that she may have about who stone was in communication with and how he was communicating during that crucial time in september and october. >> yeah, that part of it to me, the only way to make sense that her talking to mueller is her talking about stone. >> and stone having to do something about stone's communications in 2016 in the closing months of the campaign. >> which is part of andrew miller, constitutionality of the entire mueller operation. it seems to me that you know, we don't know what is going to happen, but to your point about he farmed other stuff out, stone seems like he is sitting right there in the tractor beam of the
mueller investigation. >> all of the signs are that mueller is closing in on stone and if we are goo it go sing to case, it is extremely likely we will see it in a few weeks. he doesn't want to be accused of bringing cases in the course of the election. so you know, this may drag out until post election, but i would think given the pace of activity that it is reasonable to think that we could be seeing something soon. one other thing worth mentioning, yes, we have been focused on communications that tone appeared to have or advanced knowledge appeared to have about what wikileaks was going to be releasing, the ped desa time in the barrel. stone also running this operation, called stop the steal
which was an election poll watching event that was designed to intimidate voters or suppress african american participation in the election. may be questions about the funding of that that mueller is interested in and that kristin davis could provide answers for. >> the closeness of them. it makes a bit more sense in the context of that. though what doesn't make sense is the bizarre instagram post. maybe they are asking about the child but those are weird. >> a lot of things that he is doing as of late is weird. somewhat unhinged. so you know, i think stone is clearly feeling the heat.
>> thank you so much for being here. >> any time. >> next, remarkable new report of the "washington post" that shows the president's new york hotel reaping windfall profits from the saudi family. i will talk to the reporter who broke the story after this. et n. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands?
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lake the hotel was set to take a loss and then came a last minute visit to new york by none other than the crown prince of saudi arabia. this cams from a letter obtained by the post. the crown prince didn't seen stay at the hotel. according to the general manager, he wrote in his letter we were able to accommodate many of his foreign travelers. he doesn't stay in. such transactions have fuelled criticisms accusing the president of reaping revenue from foreign governments in violation of the practice. to talk more about what we know about what is going on, joined by jonathan o'connor.
>> we know the saudi prince came to new york in a publicized visit. and we know that stay was lucrative enough for the trump hotel that their revenue went up 13% instead of dropping as it has done in the previous years. >> they don't have shareholders, my understanding is the letter is kind of like the earnings call that you would do if you did have shareholders. he is saying when you want to look at what quarter we had, we had this big boost >> the hotel is managed and branded by president trump's company. the units in the hotel are mostly owned by independent
investors. every so often they get a report from the general manager about how leasing is going and how the hotel is performing. >> so this was that letter to them. >> is this constitutional? >> no. it is blatantly on constitutional. on its face the constitution prohibits of taking emoluments, profits. the constitution even mentions princes that federal officers cannot take something of value from a prince or a foreign state and the reason for this is really obvious. we can't have federal officers and especially the president of the united states who is getting cash in his pocket from foreign governments while we are making critical foreign policy decisions about trade and diplomacy. >> and war and peace in the
middle east on whether we are going to let the saudis invade qat qatar for instance. would we know if someone is doing it. >> they said was the profits from the major business at their hotel company. we don't know anything more than that. we don't know who the people spending that money are other than a few published reports about major stays at mostly the trump d.c. hotel. we don't know how much each of them spent or who exactly stayed there. so quite a bit we don't know. and we may learn more about the business because of this lawsuit
that was already filed. >> what do you think of the lawsuit? >> it was an incredible lawsuit. new york should be in the lawsuit so we can learn about what is happening in new york with new york businesses, the other stories from the trump international hotel that we don't know. the other stories about foreign moneys going through trump's businesses that we don't know. and actually a week after donald trump was elected before he took office, i sounded the alarm and said look, it looks like donald trump is set to violate this essential clause of the constitution. and three days after donald trump took office we filed the first emolument lawsuit. we know there is unconstitutional behavior but only from public reports. we don't have the tax returns and we don't know the financial
flows. >> this is somewhat uncharted constitutional territory. >> absolutely. >> and for a lot of reasons, we haven't had a person like this be president of the united states before, but the federal judge said yeah, you have standing and this is a real case that could go forward. >> right. and the particularly tough news for the trump organization out of that court case is the judge seemed to define emoluments very broadly compared to the way the department of justice defined it. for a service they are paying, market rate for, could be defined under emolument. and the judge has been clear if you look at what he said about the case so far, a competitive in new york, another state may have stand figure there is a hotel or business in their jurisdiction or area that is
conducting this business. >> zephyr, you are nodding your head. >> they had a bizarre definition of emolument. saying it is only an emolument if it is a bribe. the judge set a ruling to define emolument that i and others have been pushing. this prohibition is against money coming in from foreign governments and you don't have to prove this is some pro quo. >> why a judge today federal judge slammed the trump administration by suggesting that somebody else take over the work of reuniting families. and next, what is great britain anyway, that is thing one, thing
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united kingdom of great britain and ireland. and finally, you have the british isles encompassing everything in this blue circle. the republic of ireland. and the aisle of man and many islands. any of us is not the president of the united states. >> people call it britain, they call it great britain, they used to call it england. but the uk, great respect. >> and that is thing two in 60 seconds. i tried the patch. they didn't work for me. i didn't think anything was going to work for me until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. i needed that to quit. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms.
some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you've had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. i can't tell you how good it feels to have smoking behind me. talk to your doctor about chantix. donald trump owns a golf course if scotland you think he would have a decent understanding. weirdly, trump has had a really,
really tough time with uk geography, he once told, you don't hear the word britain anymore. you have different names, you can say england, you can say uk, you can say united kingdom. i always say which one do you prefer. last month's nato trip, he told the sun, he prefers england. >> it is so true. you don't hear england anymore. last night trump was in pennsylvania and he brought up uk once again. >> i have great respect for the uk, united kingdom. people call it britain, they call it great britain, they used to call it england, different parts. but the uk, great respect.
>> nobody elected this man to get the names of places right. >> i am greatly honored to host this lunch to be joined by the leaders ethiopia, guinea. >> belgium is a beautiful city. >> we are praying for the people of puerto rico. we love puerto rico. >> heroin overdoses are surging, nevada. and great to be back in missouri. this russia thing with trump and russia. >> jerusalem is not just the heart of great religion. >> it has to be nevada. and if you don't say it
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double digits in her bid to secure the nomination. congresswoman black had sacrificed a lot to run for office. resigning as chairman yet all for naught. coming in third. she became the latest house republican rejected by their own party's voters. congressman jenkins rejected. congressman messer of indiana rejected in his home state senate primary. his competition also rejected. rejected congressmen who wanted to keep their seats. condition agrees in general is massively unpopular.
the average approval rating is wa wallowing around 15%. with seven republican members of congress rejected in various primaries this year, house republicans being shunned by their own party voters. the midterm election are just 95 days away. con.
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first place. but then, nonprofits have been trying to clean up the government's mess on this very issue for months, as our own trymaine lee found out back in june, when he travelled to arizona and talked to the florence project. that's a group that provides free legal services to detained immigrants. >> it's very empty. it's very isolating. physically and emotionally. the detention centers are placed out there for a reason. it is very intentional. >> annabel brazaha drives this dusty highway four times a week to the infamous eloi detention center. it's a jail run by a private prison corporation. now it houses undocumented immigrants. 15 of them have died in as many years, due to suicide or inadequate medical care. >> what's the toughest part about making this trip? >> the toughest part. not being able to help them in the way that they want you to help them. >> reporter: annabel works for
the florence project. they call themselves legal first responders for immigrants. some who have been separated from their children by the u.s. government. many don't know their rights. they often don't have money for an attorney and don't speak english. annabel is here right to help them. >> was this a good day or a not-so-good day? >> uh, i don't think it was a good day, personally. just from the conversations and the reactions that i had and the tears that i had, i definitely think i would need to decompress a little bit and see how i can help further. >> reporter: these parents were in tears? >> yes, they were in tears. >> reporter: there are more than 3,000 undocumented immigrants imprisoned in arizona on any given day. and the florence project is the only nonprofit providing free legal aid to them. >> what we're seeing right now is completely unprecedented in terms of the family separation. >> lawrence st. john is the florence project's legal director. >> a 2-year-old can't tell you,
their mother or father's name. it's just mommy and daddy, right? a 2-year-old can't tell you, well, how does mom tell spel th -- spell that name. and we have to track this person down and it's extremely difficult. >> is there any legal resource for families who have had their kids ripped away from them. >> if you're being deported, you might have right to have an attorney, but only if you can pay for one. and that means at least in the facilities that we work in, approximately 86% of the people here will go through the process without an attorney. >> what kind of outcome do they face? these trained lawyers, the american government, a court system that operates differently than the american criminal court system, right? >> overall, the system is extremely difficult for people and there are a lot of people who have potentially valid claims, who simply for lack of a lawyer, are not able to explain themselves well enough to be able to prevail on those claims.
>> they're also worried about what's going to happen to their children. >> reporter: this is the first point of contact that many of the immigrants that florida helps each year. she's a lifeline. >> what's going through their mind? they've been separated from their child. they have one phone call. what are they thinking? >> one of the clients said, you know, this isn't justice, but this is how it is. >> the latest government numbers on separated families, 572 immigrant children remain in goth's custody across the country. not been reunited. with me now, legal deputy director of the aclu's immigrant rights projects, i've got to say, when you look at that project, the florence project, they're not as big as the aclu, you're a big national organization, but even the aclu, is it as crazy as it seems to me, that the federal government, who separated the kids, to turn around and go to a federal court and say, we think the aclu should put everyone back together? >> it was a stunning submission by the government. they were basically saying,
look, you go do it and find the parents and tell us when you find them. we have a lot of support, but nowhere near the support the u.s. government has. and the government, worse, is sitting on information that could help us, and they haven't given it to us. they have phone numbers of parents, they haven't given it to us. we have addresses from them. sometimes it's just a city with 700,000 people. that was the address they gave us. they're telling us to get us the phone numbers, they need eight more days. that's terrible. >> okay, i'm confused here. so we've got -- you know, we had 2,500 -- the numbers get confusing, around 2,500. the vast majority have been reunited, right? >> right. >> as a documented fact, that has happened. >> and we're thrilled about that. >> right. 1,700, 1,800, somewhere in that ballpark? >> i think without this judge's ruling, we may have been looking at 5,000 kids separated by now. now we're down to 500, but those 500 are critical. we're talking about them being orphaned if we don't find these parents. >> so we have 500 left. we have 2,000 reunited and 500 left. the vast majority, my
understanding, of that class of kids who, they're waking up every day in some detention facility in some foster care facility, in some child detention center facility. the vast majority, their parents have been deported. >> exactly. and the government is saying, look, i don't know, they're in honduras somewhere. is that basically -- >> yeah, they're telling us what country they're in and that's basically it. and yesterday they gave us addresses for some of them, but they're barely usable. and we said, you know, what about the phone numbers, they said, oh, we don't know you wanted the phone numbers. we'll try to get you phone numbers in ten days. why not go through the files and find the phone numbers. we've offered to send our paralegals down there and in one day they'll get through those 400 files and see how many phone numbers there are. >> what did the judge think about the government's idea that you put everybody back together? >> yeah, the judge was crystal clear. the government separated these children. these children are in real harm. it's the government's responsibility. and he said, i want a point person from the government and i want that person to submit a plan, because right now, i
thought i was getting a plan from the government. i've got nothing. >> there's also real concern about the conditions these kids are in. >> right. >> we've had a number of reports. propublica has been reporting about southwest key, which is one of the biggest contractors. it's a nonprofit, but it's got hundreds of millions of government contracts. arizona central yesterday, another southwest key employee arrested for sex abuse at a shelter, court documents show. i believe that's the third, any am not mistaken, from that particular employer. are you concerned about that? >> we've been concerned about conditions in facilities housing children for a long time. and that's exactly why you wouldn't want to put more children there. you know, the government is suggesting that, well, even if we reunite them, maybe we're going to detain a bunch of them. you don't need to detain families, a mother with a 2-year-old. there's plenty of ways to ensure supervision. the trump administration got rid of a way that was 98% effective that the obama administration had created at the end. and now, they've released a lot of people.
>> they have? >> fortunately. but there's still a lot of people detained. and those people need representation immediately. because they're in danger of being deported. >> here's the thing that's so crazy to me. play out the logic here. so let's say the 400 children that are currently in u.s. custody are being cared for by the u.s. taxpayer, first of all. >> right. >> right? >> i mean, what is the government's plan here? if the government's plan is, well, we deported the parents, we're not rieuniting them, what are you going to do with the kids? raise them until they're 18? give them to some family like we're in argentina in the dirty wars? what's the deal? >> right, from the government's self-interest, they ought to be finding these parents. that's less energy and taxpayer money than trying to find a place for these children. otherwise, we're just stuck with these children. and not only that, the pashrent and the children want to be together. >> and the judge said they have to. >> absolutely. >> you've done incredible work on this. thank you for your time on this friday night. that is a"all in" for this
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
took the stand at his trial and the testimony was damaging to say the least. as for the former madam, kristin davis, today we learned she talked with mueller's team. shimon pro-yew pez joins us with the latest. let's talk about what came to light on this day four of the trial. >> certainly damaging testimony, as you say, for paul manafort. an accountant taking the stand who really is the first person who has direct knowledge of manafort's alleged scheme. she was given immunity to testify. her name is cindy la porter. she was a long time accountant for him, and really a big day for prosecutors here in that really what she showed was that manafort had asked her to falsify documents. some of this activity, you know, when he was running the trump campaign in 2016. in one case, she says that he asked her to say that money that he had in offshore accounts was a loan when it was, in fact, income which reduced his taxes by $500,000. there's also all sorts of e-mails that the government used
done some work, i think, for his website or social media stuff. shimon, appreciate it. i want to turn next to asha rangappa by phone. also joining us is the director of a fascinating documentary, get me roger stone. is it on netflix now? >> yes. >> first of all, you interviewed ms. davis extensively for the documentary. what is their relationship? what's her role in all this? >> so it's been manifold. roger stone ran her campaign for governor when she challenged andrew cuomo. he ran her campaign for new york city comptroller. >> i didn't even realize she had run in those two -- >> yeah. it was a pretty loony race. they are very close friends, and the race for comptroller in 2013 was derailed when kristin davis was brought up on charges for dealing illegally prescription
be wikileaks, and it's about how guccifer 2.0, which hacked into the e-mails, was coordinating on the release with organization one. in that section, there is a portion that says that guccifer 2.0 was also in touch with the senior -- with a person who had contacts with senior members of the trump campaign, and they were contacting him. how this relates back to davis is that davis was on roger stone's payroll in late 2016 when these contacts would have happened with the person with contacts to the senior trump officials. so if that is roger stone and she was on the payroll doing clerical work, which is apparently what she was doing, she may have seen e-mail traffic or other communications either between stone and wikileaks or other entities. so if she is the person referred to in the indictment, that could be the nexus that they are trying to look into further. >> morgan, you've obviously spent a lot of time with roger
associate, rick gates. >> right. this is an uphill battle for manafort because the crux of the allegations is that he lied to banks in terms of representing his income and his other liabilities in getting loans, and that he also lied to the irs in his tax returns. now, he signed his own tax returns, which you do under penalty of perjury. but what the prosecution also has are communications between manafort and his cpa in which the cpa is directly asking him questions like, do you have any foreign bank accounts to report? and manafort responds, no. so what his lawyers are going to try to say is that he knew nothing about his foreign bank accounts, and that's just not going to fly in my opinion given that he was using those bank accounts for all the lavish spending that we've seen. he's also communicating directly with the cpa, and i expect that gates is going to also have
testimony and probably written communications showing that they were both coordinating on this scheme of trying to lie and conceal some of their financial dealings. >> he's even buying clothes and cars and stuff with wire transfers directly from foreign bank accounts, which is obviously, i assume, a way to avoid, you know, the tax burden of it. morgan, in describing paul manafort, i want to get the quote right. you said that he was a diabolical specter who materialized in far off lands to meddle in their affairs and then dissolved back into the shadows when his work was done and his sizeable fee connected. that's -- i'm sorry. collected. you interviewed him for the documentary. is that how you found him? >> you know, paul manafort is a brilliant political operative, and one of his great innovations was that, you know, when roger stone and paul manafort started off as political consultants, there weren't a lot. so you could make a lot of money in america. but then there was an explosion in the industry, so they had to
go find new, you know, troughs of money. and so they went and looked abroad. and the people abroad, people like viktor yanukovych, were willing to pay much higher rates for those services, and it was much harder to track the monies that they were taking in. this seems like it may ultimately have been paul manafort's undoing. it ended up being a very lucrative proposition for him for several decades. i was a little bit surprised by manafort being so savvy that all this kind of ham-fistedness that we seem to be seeing in the trial could have taken place, but certainly that is how manafort became a very wealthy person. >> it's so fascinating. finally, asha, though who describe mueller as being methodical in his approach and not one for fishing expeditions, is that description consistent with what you've seen in the first week of this trial? >> yes. i think so. i mean they are trying to prove all of the elements of this crime. do you mean with the charges
generally, just that he's gone after this? >> i just mean in the way that -- you know, the way the trial is unfolding, you know, kind of setting it up methodically. >> yeah, i think that, you know, they are going to follow -- these prosecutors do bank fraud and tax fraud cases quite frequently. there is a way of presenting the evidence. i think as you mentioned earlier, the judge is being pretty aggressive in both making sure that evidence that could be prejudicial to the jury, for example, overemphasizing manafort's spending and, you know, which is not in and of itself evidence of a crime -- to limit that, but also make sure that they're going through all the witnesses very quickly and the evidence quickly to keep the prosecution streamlined, means that, you know, mueller's team is going to do this the right way by the book. i don't think that there's anything unusual about the way they're presenting this evidence. >> appreciate it.
again, the documentary is get me roger stone. it's on netflix. it's really good. thank you. appreciate it. just ahead, beyond just manafort and perhaps stone, more on what robert mueller may have in store in the weeks and months ahead. a look at clues at what might be on his to do list. also the president's uneasy relationship with facts, the truth. new reporting shows it's getting worst by "the washington post." the untruths according to them are accelerating. i'm talk with someone who has been documenting it as well as one of the president's top campaign advisers. we're the most isolated population on the planet. ♪ hawaii is the first state in the u.s. to have 100% renewable energy goal. we're a very small electric utility. but, if we don't make this move we're going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaii's economy. ♪
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we saw plenty of new developments today that could factor into robert mueller's larger russia probe. there's also plenty we have not seen. team mueller doesn't leak. that said we do have some inkling of where things could be heading. jim sciutto reports. >> reporter: openly denounced by the white house. >> i call it the rigged witch hunt. >> reporter: yet pressing forward without interruption, special counsel robert mueller's investigation has produced a steady stream of indictments and arrests over the last 14 months. it enters a new phase with the start of the first of two trials for paul manafort, trump's former campaign chairman. in virginia he faces charges of bank and tax fraud. in washington, he's accused of failing to register as a lobbyist for a foreign government and obstruction of justice. and mueller may not be done with manafort. this memo indicates that the special counsel is still investigating whether manafort was, quote, colluding with russian government officials,
end quote, to interfere in the 2016 election. >> there is no evidence that mr. manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian government. >> reporter: manafort's former business partner and former deputy chairman of the trump campaign, rick gates, has already pleaded guilty and will testify against manafort. among the others the special counsel has indicted, michael flynn, trump's former national security adviser, and george papadopoulos, a former campaign aide. both pleaded guilty to lying to prosecutors, and both are cooperating with the investigation. konstantin kilimnik, an associate of manafort's, who is described in court documents as a suspected russian intelligence operative. also indicted, 13 russian nationals and three russian entities charged with interfering in the 2016 election. and most recently, another group of 12 russian nationals charged with hacking the democratic national committee and the clinton campaign. could more charges be coming? his team has interviewed at least two dozen members of the
trump administration and other trump associates. >> bob mueller is not making deals left and right. rick gates, george papadopoulos, and michael flynn all traded some pieces of information for their respective plea deals. that's presumably incredibly important information. >> reporter: one crucial remaining question, what has mueller found out about that june 2016 trump tower meeting between donald trump jr., paul manafort, jared kushner, and russians who promised to share dirt on hillary clinton? trump junior has said that he never told his father about the meeting. >> there was nothing to tell. it was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame. >> reporter: but sources tell cnn that trump's former personal attorney michael cohen is now claiming that trump knew of the meeting in advance and that cohen is prepared to tell mueller. cohen himself may not be on mueller's to-do list, though, having referred his case to federal investigators in new york. >> so it effectively brings the issue of collusion or conspiracy right to the president's feet.
>> reporter: mueller's latest indictment of the russian hackers hinted that he may still be looks at the role of other u.s. persons. >> the conspirators corresponded with several americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet. >> reporter: some speculate that may include roger stone who claimed several times during the campaign to be communicating with wikileaks, which u.s. intelligence believes acted as a middleman. >> it's innocence. there's no evidence of collusion or conspiracy or coordination. >> reporter: the department of justice also recently released the fisa warrant obtained by the fbi during the campaign to surveil another former trump campaign adviser, carter page. at the time, the fbi told the court it believed page was the subject of recruitment by the russian government. >> i've never been an agent of a foreign power in any -- by any stretch of the imagination. >> reporter: questions also remain about blackwater founder
erik prince's mysterious meetings in the seychelles with an unofficial representative of the united arab emirates. >> no one was aware from the trump team that i was there. it was private business that had nothing to do with the u.s. government. >> reporter: cnn has reported the purpose of that meeting was to arrange a possible back channel communication between the u.s. and russia, but the uae connection could expand mueller's investigation to concerns of additional foreign influence in the 2016 election. nader has been cooperating with investigators. the big question is what if anything mueller has in store to president trump, including whether he obstructed justice. >> i think really that obstruction piece will be the final element of this and that what we're going to more likely see is, you know, sort of these dots in the center being connected. >> reporter: looming large is whether the special counsel will demand a sit-down interview with president trump himself. >> i've always wanted to do an
interview because, look, there's been no collusion. >> reporter: for now, mr. trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, says any interview is still under negotiation. >> i think he shouldn't. i know how convinced he is that he didn't do anything wrong and wants to explain it, and i've seen other people get into trouble thinking that, innocent people. >> reporter: to be clear, none of the charges that manafort faces so far relate directly to russia's interference in the 2016 election. however, he was working for, getting paid millions of dollars for working for the then pro-russian president of ukraine, who has been accused of corruption and murder, and who jailed his political opponents. jim sciutto, cnn, washington. >> jim set the stage. i want to dig deeper. back with me, alan dershowitz, author of the case against impeaching trump. also john dean. professor dershowitz, the president continues to call the entire russia situation a hoax, a witch hunt.
he sometimes just focuses on the notion of collusion as being the hoax and the witch hunt but oftentimes he just paints a very broad picture of it like that. it does seem to ignore the fact that mueller has already brought dozens of criminal charges against more than 20 defendants, including four trump associates. >> well, i think more important, his own intelligence agencies have warned us about continuing russian attempts to intervene in the election. i give much more weight to that than i do to indictments. indictments are, after all, just charges. they haven't been proved. but the intelligence agencies who are appointed by president trump are saying categorically that there is a continuing and ongoing effort to intrude into the election. and so i think that has to be taken pretty much as a given at this point. >> the president, though, even when he was reading a statement after helsinki to kind of clean up, and he said, you know, russia is responsible, he also then ad-libbed, could be other people. there's a lot of -- you know, there's a lot of groups out
there. >> yes, he did. and he continues to ad-lib on his -- at his rallies, discounting what his intelligence chiefs are telling him. you know, a normal president would have taken that occasion to be present, probably would have done it in the east room, probably would have introduced them all and tried to emphasize the importance of what they were about to say. he's done just the opposite. he put them out in the briefing room, which steps it down a couple notches right away, and then he's undercut it today in statements he's made about it just being a hoax again. >> professor dershowitz, when we look -- go ahead. >> i was going to say he's in strange company. just the other day noel chom ski, the radical, also said it was something of a joke that russia tried to intrude in our election. the real villains, he said, are
israel because they're the ones who intruded in the election. because that's nom chom ski. that's not to be taken seriously. but i think the intelligence agencies have to be taken seriously. >> when we look at the people who have made deals with mueller, rick gates, michael flynn, george papadopoulos, we still don't know what they've given mueller because prosecutors don't offer leniency out of the goodness of their hearts. this he have to be getting something in return, don't they? >> there's no question. you have to make the proffer. you're give a queen for a day. that is what you give in the proffer can't be used against you. but then if the proffer isn't substantial enough, you're not going to get the immunity. so i think we can assume if these folks have been given immunity from prosecution, they've given to mueller what he regards as valuable information. it may not be ultimately information. it maybe leads to other information. it may be a willingness to testify, but it's much better if they get self-proving information that doesn't rely on the credibility of witnesses who have been give a deal.
>> john, rudy giuliani told politico yesterday a decision about a sit-down interview with mueller is going to be made in the next week to ten days. it feels like we've been hearing the same thing for months. you know, we'll decide soon. we'll decide after the north korea summit. is there any reason to believe they're any closer to a decision now? >> i don't think there is necessarily. we also were told with the prior lawyers that they were imminent in making a decision. this is the new crew of lawyers, and they have apparently a new deadline for themselves. but, you know, i'll be frankly surprised if he does agree to sit down. i'd be shocked in fact if he did. >> professor dershowitz, you and i have talked about this a lot. >> i wouldn't be surprised. >> why? >> well, i wouldn't advise him to sit down if i were his lawyer. i'm not his lawyer. but i wouldn't be surprised if in the end, a compromise is reached. and there are a limited number of questions vetted in advance, and he's prepared. and in order to show that he's willing to testify, he will
prevail over his lawyer's advice and ultimately be able to say to the american public, look, i sat down. i looked him in the eye, and nothing came of it. so my prediction is that he might very well agree to a deal if the deal is one that his lawyers can live with even if his lawyers don't think it's a good idea. >> well, professor, giuliani said they don't want any questioning on obstruction, that mueller's team would have to concede to that. is there any chance that's going to actually happen, that they would take that off the table in terms of questions? >> i can't imagine they would take that off the table. i can't imagine they would ask him just one or two questions. but it's not about quantity. it's about quality. if they ask him why he fired mueller, that is dynamite. that simply opens up the possibility that he will say something that others will contradict. and so i think they're going to be very worried about that kind of a question even if it's only one or two questions. >> john, can the investigation conclude without a sit-down interview with the president? >> oh, i'm sure it can. i think mueller probably knows the answers.
he's trying to just establish whether there's a corrupt intent on the obstruction issue and get -- and hear what the president's point of view is on some of the other issues he's exploring. you know, i think he could do it without it. i think there is a certain fairness the public would perceive if trump did agree to testify. he's not going to be prosecuted for perjury because he's a sitting president. so he's got a lot of latitude. >> john dean, professor dershowitz, thank you. >> thank you. well, "the washington post" has been updating its list of presidential lies. in june and july, the newspaper says president trump averaged 16 false claims a day, which is unprecedented. coming up, a discussion about embellishments, exaggerations, and lies. celine. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline.
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whether you agree or disagree with the policies, there is much that's unprecedented about the trump administration. one, sadly, is the president's own record when it comes to telling the truth. he's been documented on this program and elsewhere saying things that simply are not so repeatedly. "the washington post," which has been documenting it regularly, says the number of falsehoods is actually increasing. the new yorker's susan glasser has also just written about it as well as the broader direction the president may now be taking. she joins us along with jason miller. susan, you write that history books will likely declare the last few months a turning point in the trump presidency. how do you mean? >> well, i mean, you know, it feels like this is the trump unbound phase of the presidency, doesn't it, in many ways? we've seen the president assert himself, take control over the running of his white house, make
significant personnel changes that puts him much more firmly in charge of his foreign policy, his national security, and really he's out there on the road doing campaign-style rallies. he said the other day he might be doing that six or seven times a week leading up to the midterm elections. so i feel like we're seeing the president running the trump presidency that he wanted and feeling very unconstrained in any way. >> you also talk about an uptick in the number of false statements by the president. is it a turning point in that way? >> well, i think perhaps it is. the numbers are just mind-blowing to me. if you look at "the washington post" fact checker column, they do a great job with this. he has actually been tracking all of president trump's factual assertions with a small team of people deposed ever since trump's inauguration. what he's found is that the number of false statements has almost doubled just in the last six months compared with even the very, very fast pace of
untruths and misstatements in the first year of the trump presidency. glen told me the other day he thinks trump is on track to have 5,000 misstatements and untruths by the midterm election day this november. >> jason, i mean, a, do you see an uptick in the number of false statements by the president or misleading statements, and do you see some sort of difference to the larger point of how the president is approaching the job or his comfort level with the job? >> well, i think the president is definitely reaching a different comfort level. i think he's relying less on certain staff folks, and i think he has a better handle on what he needs to do from his perspective. but i'd say to this whole notion of the falsehoods and the misstatements, i mean, look, every president, every politician, probably ever since the beginning of time, has gotten certain statistics or certain facts wrong. that's just a part of being in office. >> according to "the washington post," the level of untrue statements, i mean, is far
beyond what any previous administration that they have tracked. i mean it's certainly -- it's a huge number, no? >> well, but even some of those -- and i read through the glen kessler article and some of those i would take real issue with. they have started construction on some of the border wall around san diego and el centro. even the fact that kessler says in his article that some of the president's comments about the trade deficit would get an "f" from many economists, i mean that statement right there, that is an opinion. i think it's important to keep in mind that some of the work that kessler does, i would give an "a" to. again, this is my opinion. and some, i think it's important to keep in mind that this is very much opinion. and so the fact checkers themselves have their own viewpoint and have their own opinions, and that definitely does come across in a lot of their reviews that they look at things. i think it's also important to keep in mind that presidents use the bully pulpit to try to drive their viewpoints, try to drive the messages that they're trying to get across to people.
and sometimes folks just don't disagree. i mean for example, i think right now as a country, i think that we're winning. i would say that some of my democratic colleagues, there are some people who differ with me ideologically might say that we're not. that is just a difference of opinion. it doesn't mean that it's four pinocchios. it just means that we view certain issues differently. >> right. there are things that the president -- i mean the ones that just jump in my head, that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 election, a million illegal immigrants voted for hillary clinton. that's why he didn't win the popular vote. biggest inauguration crowd size. he says north korea is no longer a nuclear threat. all of that is not true, correct? >> well, and there are certain points that you go through. i mean i'm sure there are a whole host of different statements that have come out from whether it be this white house or previous white houses that you could take issues with and say that they're factually incorrect or they may have gotten a statistic wrong or may have been slightly off. but i think what's a little bit difference with this white
house. >> 4,229 in the last five months. >> again, anderson, i don't think you can look at that number and say this is the set in stone, the two tablets that came down from the mountain, undisputable fact of who says that they're right and who says that they're wrong. i mean a lot of these are opinion, and i don't think that unfortunately to my friends who are big fans of the "washington post," i don't think they're the one who's can say that this is -- they're the strict arbiters of what is right and what is wrong when they have their own opinion that is going into this as well. >> susan, is that what this is, just opinion? >> i have to say, you know, this is a very convenient thing to say, but let's be real. a year and a half into this administration, whatever you think of the policies, there is a war on the truth that is going on here. and, you know, i don't think it is useful for any of us to get into an argument over whether it's 2,329 or 2,212. it is very clear that the
president of the united states is the most untruthful president of our adult lifetime certainly or anything that any of us can remember. and, you know, he strikingly repeats his factual misstatements and untruths over and over and over again, even after being told they're inaccurate. for example, the nato alliance, which has been a pillar of american national security for seven decades, created by the united states, the president of the united states not only has gone to war essentially with the key members of the alliance, has called them foes because of their membership in the european union. he has said over and over and over again, incorrectly characterized nato as if it were a piggy bank where dues were requires. he's been told many time that's not true. it's not an opinion, sir. it's just not true. >> jason? >> well, yeah. i disagree on that from the aspect of the whole issue of nato funding. >> it's not something to
disagree over, sir. i'm sorry. it's a fact. >> the whole issue of nato funding and nato spending -- i mean this was something the president ran on. >> sir, it's not -- can you just concede the fact? >> he thinks that america is spending too much of its money to go and defend nato countries. >> so did barack obama, sir. can you just concede the fact that the president over and over again has mischaracterized willfully -- he said over and over again that nato requires these people to pay dues. do you acknowledge that that is not true? do you acknowledge that? >> that other nato countries other than the four that are -- >> there are no dues to nato, and yet the president says over and over again that there are. why? >> so -- >> that's just not true. it's not true. it's not opinion. it's not about policy. >> so if the president slightly characterizes it differently -- >> no, no, no. that's untrue, sir. >> the broader point -- he even said that president obama
criticized nato allies as well. >> right. but the president repeats factual misstatements. >> here's the thing. i think members of the media have such hatred toward president trump that they want to go after him. and even if he's making a very similar point to say what president obama had made just a couple of years earlier, they want to go and nitpick over every little word to go and try and beat up on him. >> the question we're talking about is truth and facts and whether facts exist and whether this president misrepresents facts, and i mean obviously you can take issue with something susan wrote or somebody else wrote. but it's basically just distracting from the core issue just as talking about the larger strategy on nato, that's not what this discussion is about. it's about whether facts exist and whether this president is misusing facts. i got to wrap it up because we're so over time. jason miller, susan glasser, thank you. >> thank you very much. we have a lot more ahead including the latest from houston where there has been a dramatic ending to that hunt for the suspected killer of a
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it's going to be the suspect. he's walking eastbound. >> reporter: this is how it sounded over the police radio systems as officers cornered 62-year-old joseph pappas. one officer confronted the murder suspect as he walked through this houston neighborhood friday morning. police say pappas was wearing a bulletproof vest and carrying a handgun. >> suspect pappas had his left hand up and had his right hand secreted where the officer could not see his hand. the suspect said something about suicide, and the officer said, let me see some hands or something of that nature. >> reporter: a second police officer arrived seconds later. >> i think he shot himself. >> reporter: this resident saw the scene unfold in front of his home. >> i saw a police officer pull his weapon and it was pointed at a man behind that tree that had his hands up. then i heard a gunshot. didn't see the hand anymore.
>> reporter: pappas killed himself. it ended the manhunt for the killer of prominent houston cardiologist mark hausknecht. the doctor was shot and killed while biking to work on july 20th. newly released court documents reveal that video cameras from city buses captured extensive footage of pappas following dr. hausknecht before he appears to shoot him. then the unknown male did not stop and rode his bike away from the scene. it was video footage from a home surveillance camera in a nearby neighborhood that helped police identify pappas. >> at the suspect's residence, they found a very extensive intelligence file that this suspect had put together on dr. hausknecht. he knew everything that you could possibly find on this man. i'm not going to go any further in the details, just to say it was very extensive. >> reporter: the file also contained the names of several dozen doctors and employees who worked in the same medical center, which raised alarms for
investigators. >> we actually passed that information on to the medical center, and they dealt with it to make sure that notifications were being made as they identified those employees. >> reporter: the newly released court documents also revealed that inside pappas' home, the front door was barricaded with a large piece of metal and that the living room had been cleared out except for a lone chair facing the front door. and in the kitchen, pappas left his last will and testament. >> ed joins me now. do we know anything about what was in that last will and testament? >> reporter: no. we just do know that over the course of the last few days, it was clear that it seemed, to borrow the expression, he was essentially kind of putting his affairs in order. remember there was the deed of his home that was transferred to a woman in ohio. there was also some weaponry and firearm paraphernalia that was put up on a firearm auction site as well. so it seemed clear that -- and
that's one of the things that gave investigators this idea that he was willing to commit suicide, is that he was trying to get rid of things. >> as the doctor's family responded to today's news at all? >> reporter: yeah. a great sense of relief. you know, celebrating the work of the investigators and thanking them for that work over the course of the last almost two weeks that this manhunt lasted, anderson. it really kind of speaks to the sense of relief that the city of houston feels tonight now that this is all over. >> ed, thanks very much for the reporting. appreciate it. up next, he's presiding over the first criminal trial of the russian investigation. the no-nonsense judge making interesting headlines in the manafort case. a closer look ahead.
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the trial of paul manafort. the judge who has a grip in his courtroom, more from randi kaye. >> his full name is thomas ellis iii, but in court he goes by judge t.s. ellis. he was appointed by president ronald reagan, and is well-known for scolding prosecutors and defense attorneys. earlier this week he chastised attorney/client privileges for rolling their eyes and communicating to those who were watching. why do we have to put up with this idiot judge. >> the important thing about judge ellis is he wants the record to be clear and the record is something that goes up to the court of appeals. >> cameras aren't allowed in ellis's courtroom in alexandria, virginia, but reporters have been documenting what some have called his shock and awe. ellis reportedly warned prosecutors against using the
word oligarch when describing those who paid manafort. we're not going to have a case tried that he associated with despicable people and therefore he's despicable, that's not the american way. he interrupted a landscaper testifying about the construction of manafort's outdoor kitchen and garden, telling him bluntly, you're done, let's move on. he's known for keeping things moving. jury selection wrapped up the first day, and he insisted prosecutors trim a week from presentation. he wants the trial wrapped up within three weeks. i'm not in the theater business, he joked, you have to be better looking than that. in his 31 years on the bench, he's seen his share of high profile cases. he presided over the trial of walker lind, sentenced him to 20 years, telling him you made a bad choice to join the taliban. long before the manafort trial
started ellis questioned the special counsel's motives in prosecuting manafort saying you don't really care about mr. manafort's bank fraud, suggesting it was an effort to pressure manafort into providing information he may have on donald trump. >> i think judge t.s. ellis in virginia said it best, he's not a particular figure, he has no skin in this game except the law. >> still, ellis surprised the white house and let the case two forward. ellis was born in 1940 in columbia. he graduated from princeton, went on to study law at harvard in oxford. for all his toughness, he apparently tones it down for jurors. when one answered his question before he'd finished, ellis said, i know i'm predictable, my wife says that's one of my only virtues. >> really seems like an interesting fellow. randi kaye joins us. the judge gets involved in his cases. >> he's an interactive judge. he was actually questioning the potential jurors, wanted to test
their impartiality, he's been known to question witnesses and cut off witnesses. he certainly cuts off the defense attorneys and the prosecutors, and anderson, in fact there was one point during the pretrial phase of this ca that there was an fbi agent testifying and the judge got up and was walking around on the bench and circling his big leather chair. you can imagine how offputing that might be for a witness. he's fun to watch. he does take it seriously even though he cracks jokes in there. if the jury does find manafort guilty it is up to this judge and this judge alone to make the decision. he wants the record to be perfect. >> randi kaye, thanks very much. ♪ ♪ let your perfect drive come together at the lincoln summer invitation sales event. get 0% apr on select 2018 lincoln models
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she joins us now. what did these e-mails between butina and gordon reveal? >> yeah, they showed that the two met at an embassy event, a party at the swiss embassy in late september 2016. so really in the final weeks of the trump campaign. and then paul erickson, the republican operative who she was apparently dating kind of connected the two of them over e-mail, and they show that the fact that j.d. gordon had this trump tie appeared to be important to the e-mail relationship that they then struck up. paul erickson referred to the fact that he was an important person likely in a trump transition, and then j.d. gordon himself sent back to ms. butina at some point a copy of a story from politico noting that he had a role in the trump transition. >> and there was an invitation from gordon to her to attend a concert as well as his birthday party in the fall of 2016? >> yeah, that's right. they have a series of e-mails.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
>> what has j.d. gordon said about the communication between the two of them? >> he has said this was innocuous. she went to a lot of events. she met a lot of conservatives. she talked up her role as founding this organization in russia, the right to bear arms, and that he thinks that any kind of focus on sort of any person who met her is sort of a smear -- an attempt to smear conservatives. >> rosalind helderman, appreciate the reporting. coming up, paul manafort, robert mueller, and the woman formerly known as the manhattan madam. how are they connected? perhaps in some fascinating ways. mueller indicted manafort, apparently wants him to flip. and today manafort's accountant took the stand at his trial and the testimony was damaging to say the least. as for the former madam, kristin davis, today we learned she talked with mueller's team. shimon prokupecz joins us with the latest. let's talk about what came to light on this day four of the trial. >> certainly damaging testimony,
as you say, for paul manafort. an accountant taking the stand who really is the first person who has direct knowledge of manafort's alleged scheme. she was given immunity to testify. her name is cindy laporta. she was a longtime accountant for him, and really a big day for prosecutors here in that really what she showed was that manafort had asked her to falsify documents. some of this activity, you know, when he was running the trump campaign in 2016. in one case, she says that he asked her to say that money that he had in offshore accounts was a loan when it was, in fact, income which reduced his taxes by $500,000. there's also all sorts of e-mails that the government used in the case today sort of to show the communications between manafort and this accountant. >> when it comes to roger stone and kristin davis, do we know what mueller's team asked davis about? >> we don't specifically know what was asked, but we do know the special counsel on mueller's team is specifically interested in their relationship.
the trump campaign, and they were contacting him. how this relates back to davis is that davis was on roger stone's payroll in late 2016 when these contacts would have happened with the person with contacts to the senior trump officials. so if that is roger stone and she was on the payroll doing clerical work, which is apparently what she was doing, she may have seen e-mail traffic or other communications either between stone and wikileaks or other entities. so if she is the person referred to in the indictment, that could be the nexus that they are trying to look into further. >> morgan, you've obviously spent a lot of time with roger stone making the documentary. is he fazed by this kind of stuff? i mean does this freak him out? you know, i've interviewed him a couple times and he seems -- clearly he has history. he's no stranger to kind of the rough and tumble of politics. >> i haven't seen him be too
concerned about the russia investigation or the wikileaks probe. i do think that he may be concerned and he has noted that if i am indicted, it's going to be for something unrelated to all this. i think that kristin davis has probably seen his e-mail account. she may have been privy to information they're trying to pin down. if they're looking into roger's business affairs, the way he pays people, the way he receives money, that may be something that kristin davis could provide insight into. >> asha, in terms of the manafort trial, it does seem like it's coming down to how much prosecutors are actually going to be able to prove it was manafort himself who was directing fraud that was taking place because obviously the defense is putting it on his associate, rick gates. >> right. this is an uphill battle for manafort because the crux of the allegations is that he lied to banks in terms of representing his income and his other liabilities in getting loans, and that he also lied to the irs in his tax returns.
avoid, you know, the tax burden of it. morgan, in describing paul manafort, i want to get the quote right. you said that he was a diabolical specter who materialized in far off lands to meddle in their affairs and then dissolved back into the shadows when his work was done and his sizeable fee connected. that's -- i'm sorry. collected. you interviewed him for the documentary. is that how you found him? >> you know, paul manafort is a brilliant political operative, and one of his great innovations was that, you know, when roger stone and paul manafort started off as political consultants, there weren't a lot. so you could make a lot of money in america. but then there was an explosion in the industry, so they had to go find new, you know, troughs of money. and so they went and looked abroad. and the people abroad, people like viktor yanukovych, were willing to pay much higher rates for those services, and it was much harder to track the monies that they were taking in. this seems like it may ultimately have been paul manafort's undoing.
it ended up being a very lucrative proposition for him for several decades. i was a little bit surprised by manafort being so savvy that all this kind of ham-fistedness that we seem to be seeing in the trial could have taken place, but certainly that is how manafort became a very wealthy person. >> it's so fascinating. finally, asha, though who describe mueller as being methodical in his approach and not one for fishing expeditions, is that description consistent with what you've seen in the first week of this trial? >> yes. i think so. i mean they are trying to prove all of the elements of this crime. do you mean with the charges generally, just that he's gone after this? >> i just mean in the way that -- you know, the way the trial is unfolding, you know, kind of setting it up methodically. >> yeah, i think that, you know, they are going to follow -- these prosecutors do bank fraud
and tax fraud cases quite frequently. there is a way of presenting the evidence. i think as you mentioned earlier, the judge is being pretty aggressive in both making sure that evidence that could be prejudicial to the jury, for example, overemphasizing manafort's spending and, you know, which is not in and of itself evidence of a crime -- to limit that, but also make sure that they're going through all the witnesses very quickly and the evidence quickly to keep the prosecution streamlined, means that, you know, mueller's team is going to do this the right way by the book. i don't think that there's anything unusual about the way they're presenting this evidence. >> appreciate it. again, the documentary is get me roger stone. it's on netflix. it's really good. thank you. appreciate it. just ahead, beyond just manafort and perhaps stone, more on what robert mueller may have in store in the weeks and months ahead. a look at clues at what might be on his to do list. also the president's uneasy relationship with facts, the truth.
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the white house. >> i call it the rigged witch hunt. >> reporter: yet pressing forward without interruption, special counsel robert mueller's investigation has produced a steady stream of indictments and arrests over the last 14 months. it enters a new phase with the start of the first of two trials for paul manafort, trump's former campaign chairman. in virginia he faces charges of bank and tax fraud. in washington, he's accused of failing to register as a lobbyist for a foreign government and obstruction of justice. and mueller may not be done with manafort. this memo indicates that the special counsel is still investigating whether manafort was, quote, colluding with russian government officials, end quote, to interfere in the 2016 election. >> there is no evidence that mr. manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian government. >> reporter: manafort's former business partner and former deputy chairman of the trump campaign, rick gates, has already pleaded guilty and will testify against manafort.
among the others the special counsel has indicted, michael flynn, trump's former national security adviser, and george papadopoulos, a former campaign aide. both pleaded guilty to lying to prosecutors, and both are cooperating with the investigation. konstantin kilimnik, an associate of manafort's, who is described in court documents as a suspected russian intelligence operative. also indicted, 13 russian nationals and three russian entities charged with interfering in the 2016 election. and most recently, another group of 12 russian nationals charged with hacking the democratic national committee and the clinton campaign. could more charges be coming? his team has interviewed at least two dozen members of the trump administration and other trump associates. >> bob mueller is not making deals left and right. rick gates, george papadopoulos, and michael flynn all traded some pieces of information for their respective plea deals. that's presumably incredibly important information. >> reporter: one crucial
remaining question, what has mueller found out about that june 2016 trump tower meeting between donald trump jr., paul manafort, jared kushner, and russians who promised to share dirt on hillary clinton? trump junior has said that he never told his father about the meeting. >> there was nothing to tell. it was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame. >> reporter: but sources tell cnn that trump's former personal attorney michael cohen is now claiming that trump knew of the meeting in advance and that cohen is prepared to tell mueller. cohen himself may not be on mueller's to-do list, though, having referred his case to federal investigators in new york. >> so it effectively brings the issue of collusion or conspiracy right to the president's feet. >> reporter: mueller's latest indictment of the russian hackers hinted that he may still be looks at the role of other u.s. persons. >> the conspirators corresponded with several americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet. >> reporter: some speculate that may include roger stone who claimed several times during the campaign to be communicating
with wikileaks, which u.s. intelligence believes acted as a middleman. for e-mails and documents. >> it's innocence. there's no evidence of collusion or conspiracy or coordination. >> reporter: the department of justice also recently released the fisa warrant obtained by the fbi during the campaign to surveil another former trump campaign adviser, carter page. at the time, the fbi told the court it believed page was the subject of recruitment by the russian government. >> i've never been an agent of a foreign power in any -- by any stretch of the imagination. >> reporter: questions also remain about blackwater founder erik prince's mysterious meetings in the seychelles with an unofficial representative of the united arab emirates. >> no one was aware from the trump team that i was there. it was private business that had nothing to do with the u.s. government. nothing to do with the trump team or anything else. >> reporter: cnn has reported the purpose of that meeting was
to arrange a possible back channel communication between the u.s. and russia, but the uae connection could expand mueller's investigation to concerns of additional foreign influence in the 2016 election. nader has been cooperating with investigators. the big question is what if anything mueller has in store to president trump, including whether he obstructed justice. >> i think really that obstruction piece will be the final element of this and that what we're going to more likely see is, you know, sort of these dots in the center being connected. >> reporter: looming large is whether the special counsel will demand a sit-down interview with president trump himself. >> i've always wanted to do an interview because, look, there's been no collusion. >> reporter: for now, mr. trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, says any interview is still under negotiation. >> i think he shouldn't. i know how convinced he is that he didn't do anything wrong and wants to explain it, and i've seen other people get into trouble thinking that, innocent people. >> reporter: to be clear, none
of the charges that manafort faces so far relate directly to russia's interference in the 2016 election. however, he was working for, getting paid millions of dollars for working for the then pro-russian president of ukraine, who has been accused of corruption and murder, and who jailed his political opponents. jim sciutto, cnn, washington. >> jim set the stage. i want to dig deeper. back with me, alan dershowitz, author of "the case against impeaching trump." also john dean. professor dershowitz, the president continues to call the entire russia situation a hoax, a witch hunt. he sometimes just focuses on the notion of collusion as being the hoax and the witch hunt but oftentimes he just paints a very broad picture of it like that. it does seem to ignore the fact that mueller has already brought dozens of criminal charges against more than 20 defendants, including four trump associates. >> well, i think more important, his own intelligence agencies
have warned us about continuing russian attempts to intervene in the election. i give much more weight to that than i do to indictments. indictments are, after all, just charges. they haven't been proved. but the intelligence agencies who are appointed by president trump are saying categorically that there is a continuing and ongoing effort to intrude into the election. and so i think that has to be taken pretty much as a given at this point. >> the president, though, even when he was reading a statement after helsinki to kind of clean up, and he said, you know, russia is responsible, he also then ad-libbed, could be other people. there's a lot of -- you know, there's a lot of groups out there. >> yes, he did. and he continues to ad-lib on his -- at his rallies, discounting what his intelligence chiefs are telling him. you know, a normal president would have taken that occasion to be present, probably would have done it in the east room,
probably would have introduced them all and tried to emphasize the importance of what they were about to say. he's done just the opposite. he put them out in the briefing room, which steps it down a couple notches right away, and then he's undercut it today in statements he's made about it just being a hoax again. >> professor dershowitz, when we look -- go ahead. >> i was going to say he's in strange company. just the other day noam chomsky, the radical, also said it was something of a joke that russia tried to intrude in our election. the real villains, he said, are israel because they're the ones who intruded in the election. because that's noam chomsky. that's not to be taken seriously. but i think the intelligence agencies have to be taken seriously. >> when we look at the people who have made deals with mueller, rick gates, michael flynn, george papadopoulos, we still don't know what they've given mueller because prosecutors don't offer leniency out of the goodness of their hearts.
this he have to be getting something in return, don't they? >> there's no question. you have to make the proffer. you're give a queen for a day. that is what you give in the proffer can't be used against you. but then if the proffer isn't substantial enough, you're not going to get the immunity. so i think we can assume if these folks have been given immunity from prosecution, they've given to mueller what he regards as valuable information. it may not be ultimately information. it maybe leads to other information. it may be a willingness to testify, but it's much better if they get self-proving information that doesn't rely on the credibility of witnesses who have been give a deal. >> john, rudy giuliani told politico yesterday a decision about a sit-down interview with mueller is going to be made in the next week to ten days. it feels like we've been hearing the same thing for months. you know, we'll decide soon. we'll decide after the north korea summit. is there any reason to believe they're any closer to a decision now? >> i don't think there is necessarily.
we also were told with the prior lawyers that they were imminent in making a decision. this is the new crew of lawyers, and they have apparently a new deadline for themselves. but, you know, i'll be frankly surprised if he does agree to sit down. i'd be shocked in fact if he did. >> professor dershowitz, you and i have talked about this a lot. >> i wouldn't be surprised. >> why? >> well, i wouldn't advise him to sit down if i were his lawyer. i'm not his lawyer. but i wouldn't be surprised if in the end, a compromise is reached. and there are a limited number of questions vetted in advance, and he's prepared. and in order to show that he's willing to testify, he will prevail over his lawyer's advice and ultimately be able to say to the american public, look, i sat down. i looked him in the eye, and nothing came of it. so my prediction is that he might very well agree to a deal if the deal is one that his lawyers can live with even if his lawyers don't think it's a good idea. >> well, professor, giuliani
said they don't want any questioning on obstruction, that mueller's team would have to concede to that. is there any chance that's going to actually happen, that they would take that off the table in terms of questions? >> i can't imagine they would take that off the table. i can't imagine they would ask him just one or two questions. but it's not about quantity. it's about quality. if they ask him why he fired mueller, that is dynamite. that simply opens up the possibility that he will say something that others will contradict. and so i think they're going to be very worried about that kind of a question even if it's only one or two questions. >> john, can the investigation conclude without a sit-down interview with the president? >> oh, i'm sure it can. i think mueller probably knows the answers. he's trying to just establish whether there's a corrupt intent on the obstruction issue and get -- and hear what the president's point of view is on some of the other issues he's exploring. you know, i think he could do it without it. i think there is a certain fairness the public would perceive if trump did agree to testify.
he's not going to be prosecuted for perjury because he's a sitting president. so he's got a lot of latitude. >> john dean, professor dershowitz, thank you. >> thank you. well, "the washington post" has been updating its list of presidential lies. in june and july, the newspaper says president trump averaged 16 false claims a day, which is unprecedented. coming up, a discussion about embellishments, exaggerations, and lies. the planet. ♪ hawaii is the first state in the u.s. to have 100% renewable energy goal. we're a very small electric utility. but, if we don't make this move we're going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaii's economy. ♪ verizon provided us a solution
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whether you agree or disagree with the policies, there is much that's unprecedented about the trump administration. one, sadly, is the president's own record when it comes to telling the truth. he's been documented on this program and elsewhere saying things that simply are not so repeatedly. "the washington post," which has been documenting it regularly, says the number of falsehoods is actually increasing. the new yorker's susan glasser has also just written about it as well as the broader direction the president may now be taking. she joins us along with jason miller. susan, you write that history books will likely declare the last few months a turning point in the trump presidency. how do you mean? >> well, i mean, you know, it feels like this is the trump unbound phase of the presidency, doesn't it, in many ways? we've seen the president assert himself, take control over the running of his white house, make significant personnel changes that puts him much more firmly in charge of his foreign policy,
his national security, and really he's out there on the road doing campaign-style rallies. he said the other day he might be doing that six or seven times a week leading up to the midterm elections. so i feel like we're seeing the president running the trump presidency that he wanted and feeling very unconstrained in any way. >> you also talk about an uptick in the number of false statements by the president. is it a turning point in that way? >> well, i think perhaps it is. the numbers are just mind-blowing to me. if you look at "the washington post" fact checker column, they do a great job with this. he has actually been tracking all of president trump's factual assertions with a small team of people deposed ever since trump's inauguration. what he's found is that the number of false statements has almost doubled just in the last six months compared with even the very, very fast pace of untruths and misstatements in the first year of the trump presidency. glen told me the other day he
thinks trump is on track to have 5,000 misstatements and untruths by the midterm election day this november. >> jason, i mean, a, do you see an uptick in the number of false statements by the president or misleading statements, and do you see some sort of difference to the larger point of how the president is approaching the job or his comfort level with the job? >> well, i think the president is definitely reaching a different comfort level. i think he's relying less on certain staff folks, and i think he has a better handle on what he needs to do from his perspective. but i'd say to this whole notion of the falsehoods and the misstatements, i mean, look, every president, every politician, probably ever since the beginning of time, has gotten certain statistics or certain facts wrong. that's just a part of being in office. >> according to "the washington post," the level of untrue statements, i mean, is far beyond what any previous administration that they have tracked. i mean it's certainly -- it's a
huge number, no? >> well, but even some of those -- and i read through the glen kessler article and some of those i would take real issue with. they have started construction on some of the border wall around san diego and el centro. even the fact that kessler says in his article that some of the president's comments about the trade deficit would get an "f" from many economists, i mean that statement right there, that is an opinion. i think it's important to keep in mind that some of the work that kessler does, i would give an "a" to. again, this is my opinion. and some, i think it's important to keep in mind that this is very much opinion. and so the fact checkers themselves have their own viewpoint and have their own opinions, and that definitely does come across in a lot of their reviews that they look at things. i think it's also important to keep in mind that presidents use the bully pulpit to try to drive their viewpoints, try to drive the messages that they're trying to get across to people. and sometimes folks just don't disagree. i mean for example, i think right now as a country, i think that we're winning.
i would say that some of my democratic colleagues, there are some people who differ with me ideologically might say that we're not. that is just a difference of opinion. it doesn't mean that it's four pinocchios. it just means that we view certain issues differently. >> right. there are things that the president -- i mean the ones that just jump in my head, that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 election, a million illegal immigrants voted for hillary clinton. that's why he didn't win the popular vote. biggest inauguration crowd size. he says north korea is no longer a nuclear threat. all of that is not true, correct? >> well, and there are certain points that you go through. i mean i'm sure there are a whole host of different statements that have come out from whether it be this white house or previous white houses that you could take issues with and say that they're factually incorrect or they may have gotten a statistic wrong or may have been slightly off. but i think what's a little bit difference with this white house. >> 4,229 in the last five months. >> again, anderson, i don't think you can look at that number and say this is the set
in stone, the two tablets that came down from the mountain, undisputable fact of who says that they're right and who says that they're wrong. i mean a lot of these are opinion, and i don't think that unfortunately to my friends who are big fans of the "washington post," i don't think they're the one who's can say that this is -- they're the strict arbiters of what is right and what is wrong when they have their own opinion that is going into this as well. >> susan, is that what this is, just opinion? >> i have to say, you know, this is a very convenient thing to say, but let's be real. a year and a half into this administration, whatever you think of the policies, there is a war on the truth that is going on here. and, you know, i don't think it is useful for any of us to get into an argument over whether it's 2,329 or 2,212. it is very clear that the president of the united states is the most untruthful president of our adult lifetime certainly or anything that any of us can
remember. and, you know, he strikingly repeats his factual misstatements and untruths over and over and over again, even after being told they're inaccurate. for example, the nato alliance, which has been a pillar of american national security for seven decades, created by the united states, the president of the united states not only has gone to war essentially with the key members of the alliance, has called them foes because of their membership in the european union. he has said over and over and over again, incorrectly characterized nato as if it were a piggy bank where dues were requires. he's been told many time that's not true. it's not an opinion, sir. it's just not true. >> jason? >> well, yeah. i disagree on that from the aspect of the whole issue of nato funding. >> it's not something to disagree over, sir. i'm sorry. it's a fact. >> the whole issue of nato
funding and nato spending -- i mean this was something the president ran on. >> sir, it's not -- can you just concede the fact? >> he thinks that america is spending too much of its money to go and defend nato countries. >> so did barack obama, sir. can you just concede the fact that the president over and over again has mischaracterized willfully -- he said over and over again that nato requires these people to pay dues. do you acknowledge that that is not true? do you acknowledge that? >> that other nato countries other than the four that are -- >> there are no dues to nato, and yet the president says over and over again that there are. why? >> so -- >> that's just not true. it's not true. it's not opinion. it's not about policy. >> so if the president slightly characterizes it differently -- >> no, no, no. that's untrue, sir. >> the broader point -- he even said that president obama criticized nato allies as well. >> right. but the president repeats factual misstatements. >> here's the thing.
i think members of the media have such hatred toward president trump that they want to go after him. and even if he's making a very similar point to say what president obama had made just a couple of years earlier, they want to go and nitpick over every little word to go and try and beat up on him. >> the question we're talking about is truth and facts and whether facts exist and whether this president misrepresents facts, and i mean obviously you can take issue with something susan wrote or somebody else wrote. but it's basically just distracting from the core issue just as talking about the larger strategy on nato, that's not what this discussion is about. it's about whether facts exist and whether this president is misusing facts. i got to wrap it up because we're so over time. jason miller, susan glasser, thank you. >> thank you very much. we have a lot more ahead including the latest from houston where there has been a dramatic ending to that hunt for the suspected killer of a surgeon who was gunned down while riding his bicycle. details ahead. ♪[upbeat music]
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there was a dramatic end to the hunt for the suspected killer of a houston surgeon today. as you may recall, police had identified the man they believed responsible for the killing of a doctor who had once treat the former president george h.w. bush. our ed lavandera has the details. >> he's walking. it's going to be the suspect. he's walking eastbound. >> reporter: this is how it sounded over the police radio systems as officers cornered 62-year-old joseph pappas. one officer confronted the murder suspect as he walked through this houston neighborhood friday morning. police say pappas was wearing a bulletproof vest and carrying a handgun. >> suspect pappas had his left hand up and had his right hand secreted where the officer could not see his hand. the suspect said something about suicide, and the officer said, let me see some hands or something of that nature.
>> reporter: a second police officer arrived seconds later. >> i think he shot himself. >> reporter: this resident saw the scene unfold in front of his home. >> i saw a police officer pull his weapon and it was pointed at a man behind that tree that had his hands up. then i heard a gunshot. didn't see the hand anymore. >> reporter: pappas killed himself. it ended the manhunt for the killer of prominent houston cardiologist mark hausknecht. the doctor was shot and killed while biking to work on july 20th. newly released court documents reveal that video cameras from city buses captured extensive footage of pappas following dr. hausknecht before he appears to shoot him. then the unknown male did not stop and rode his bike away from the scene. it was video footage from a home surveillance camera in a nearby neighborhood that helped police identify pappas. >> at the suspect's residence,
they found a very extensive intelligence file that this suspect had put together on dr. hausknecht. he knew everything that you could possibly find on this man. i'm not going to go any further in the details, just to say it was very extensive. >> reporter: the file also contained the names of several dozen doctors and employees who worked in the same medical center, which raised alarms for investigators. >> we actually passed that information on to the medical center, and they dealt with it to make sure that notifications were being made as they identified those employees. >> reporter: the newly released court documents also revealed that inside pappas' home, the front door was barricaded with a large piece of metal and that the living room had been cleared out except for a lone chair facing the front door. and in the kitchen, pappas left his last will and testament. >> ed joins me now. do we know anything about what was in that last will and testament? >> reporter: no.
we just do know that over the course of the last few days, it was clear that it seemed, to borrow the expression, he was essentially kind of putting his affairs in order. remember there was the deed of his home that was transferred to a woman in ohio. there was also some weaponry and firearm paraphernalia that was put up on a firearm auction site as well. so it seemed clear that -- and that's one of the things that gave investigators this idea that he was willing to commit suicide, is that he was trying to get rid of things. >> as the doctor's family responded to today's news at all? >> reporter: yeah. a great sense of relief. you know, celebrating the work of the investigators and thanking them for that work over the course of the last almost two weeks that this manhunt lasted, anderson. it really kind of speaks to the sense of relief that the city of houston feels tonight now that this is all over. >> ed, thanks very much for the reporting. appreciate it. up next, he's presiding over the first criminal trial of the
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we're not getting to see it, but our reporters are there and we're hearing lots on the trial of paul manafort. the judge who has a grip in his courtroom, more from randi kaye. >> his full name is thomas ellis iii, but in court he goes by judge t.s. ellis. he was appointed by president ronald reagan, and is well-known for scolding prosecutors and defense attorneys. earlier this week he chastised attorneys for rolling their eyes and communicating to those who were watching. why do we have to put up with this idiot judge. >> the important thing about judge ellis is he wants the record to be clear and the record is something that goes up to the court of appeals. >> cameras aren't allowed in ellis's courtroom in alexandria, virginia, but reporters have
been documenting what some have called his shock and awe. ellis reportedly warned prosecutors against using the word oligarch when describing those who paid manafort. we're not going to have a case tried that he associated with despicable people and therefore he's despicable, that's not the american way. he interrupted a landscaper testifying about the construction of manafort's outdoor kitchen and garden, telling him bluntly, you're done, let's move on. he's known for keeping things moving. jury selection wrapped up the first day, and he insisted prosecutors trim a week from presentation. he wants the trial wrapped up within three weeks. i'm not in the theater business, he joked, you have to be better looking than that. in his 31 years on the bench, he's seen his share of high profile cases. he presided over the trial of walker lindh, sentenced him to 20 years, telling him you made a
bad choice to join the taliban. long before the manafort trial started ellis questioned the special counsel's motives in prosecuting manafort saying you don't really care about mr. manafort's bank fraud, suggesting it was an effort to pressure manafort into providing information he may have on donald trump. >> i think judge t.s. ellis in virginia said it best, he's not a particular figure, he has no skin in this game except the law. >> still, ellis surprised the white house and let the case go forward. ellis was born in 1940 in columbia. he graduated from princeton, went on to study law at harvard in oxford. for all his toughness, he apparently tones it down for jurors. when one answered his question before he'd finished, ellis said, i know i'm predictable, my wife says that's one of my only virtues. >> really seems like an
interesting fellow. randi kaye joins us. the judge gets involved in his cases. >> he's an interactive judge. he was actually questioning the potential jurors, wanted to test their impartiality, he's been known to question witnesses and cut off witnesses. he certainly cuts off the defense attorneys and the prosecutors, and anderson, in fact there was one point during the pretrial phase of this that there was an fbi agent testifying and the judge got up and was walking around on the bench and circling his big leather chair. you can imagine how offputting that might be for a witness. he's fun to watch. he does take it seriously even though he cracks jokes in there. if the jury does find manafort guilty it is up to this judge and this judge alone to make the decision. he wants the record to be perfect. >> randi kaye, thanks very much. ♪
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Chris Hayes discusses the day's top news.
fraudulent accounting tricks that they use to convince banks to give them more money and paul manafort was cc'ed on these e-mails. >> there is something here as i read testimony of the case and paged through some of the bits of evidence the government has entered, julia, that there is a desperation that is almost cinematic. you can feel wafting off the e-mails. that these are people that are scrounging and starved for cash. >> desperation is the word, i'm glad you used that. that is the one word that the prosecution wants to have sticking in the jurors mind when they deliberate. this was a man desperate enough when he works with these shady characters. he would have put his whole family and business at risk because he was so desperate.
he got to a point where he might not have been able to pay health care premiums but still wanted to fund the lifestyles and keep the house in the hamptons. a man that was desperate, and wanted to keep up his image. desperate to hold on to this kind of pseudopower that he had amassed around him and i think they are going to want to spell that out as we move into the mueller probe that he was desperate. why did he work for the trump campaign for free? >> what about the defense? they don't have much to work with factually. what was their approach today? >> as you said, they don't have a lot to work with.
spent a lot of time asking vendors, the tax preparers, did you work with rick gates, wasn't he handling all of this. wasn't he always telling you to talk to rick gates. the tax preparers and the bookkeepers saying paul manafort, we talked to him too. and he was cc'd on this e-mails. >> thank you. that was great. mounting legal consequences manafort this week. joined by barbra mcquade. you have been following this trial closely. i'm an amateur and i am just watching this and reading the coverage and talking to people who are there. it did not look good for him.
not a great week for him >> the evidence is coming in. and it seems to be persuasive. they seem to be very engaged and taking notes and listening. i think they provided very substantial evidence that paul manafort was using these offshore accounts to fund his lavish lifestyle and failed to put them on his taxes. as we have discussed before, paper cases are a lot safer. you don't have to worry about a witness going south. will he testify remains a question because the evidence is coming in so well for the prosecution. >> i totally agree. that the defense that the defense put on in their opening is just falling apart. they are not able to
substantiate this is all gates' fault. they are both cc'd on everything. and both in conference calls. >> there was an e-mail in evidence today in which the tax preparer says hey, do you have any foreign bank accounts and he writes back no. that is pretty clear. >> you can't get any clearer than this. whatever defense theory they had is going down the toilet today. he is gone in this case. and i agree with barbara. they have got the conspiring on e-mails, and phone calls with the accountants. >> there was a sidebar, because it reminded me of a defense rudy giuliani talking about the
president. he says, it can't be obstruction, he is doing it in broad daylight. the lawyer says only a fool can give that kind of information to an accountant if he is trying to conceal the fashion. there is a trail and these documents could lead to the truth in that. and someone who intended to violate the law would not have done that. inconsistent with someone who would want to violate the law. >> the person sitting next to me said, wow, if that's the best argument he has, he is in trouble. the fact that paul manafort had to disclose to his accountant, he told them they were clients not his own entities. so about three steps removed
that he is disclosing this. if that is the best argument that they have, i agree with this spectator, they are in trouble. >> this is a mueller prosecution. we have that lurking in the background. it doesn't have to do with the trump campaign, or the collusion. you can't but look at it and say this guy was so desperate. so desperate there is an e-mail in there where he is trying to basically squeeze his daughter over furniture purchases. he writes a stern e-mail. that same dude during this period goes and works for free on the trump campaign. >> nothing is for free. let's start with that premise. what he was doing was also trying to ingratiate himself with various oligarchs. offering to provide them updates
on the campaign. that was one of the people that was providing him with all of that money during that time period. >> remember, the e-mail when he gets a job, he turns around and goes to kilimnick who is his deputy in ukraine, how do we use to get whole. has he seen. >> the exact same thing. there was a motive to his madness here. >> barbara, what is your sense of this trial. moved through the witnesses quickly. what do you see for next week?
>> well, maybe we will or maybe we won't see rick gates. they are teeing up a summary witness. for many witnesses who have testified, a chart that has not been published to the jury. and have been asked have you verified the numbers in the chart. to sort of make it crystal clear to the jury what these numbers mean. what the numbers were going in and what were going out. we are likely to see that coming out next week. >> someone to tabulate it all. here is the evidence, and here is what we are able to make out of it. >> they heard the raw evidence and it could be difficult to keep up. long days, and tedious. line 17, line 22. i can imagine having a summary witness in the form of an fbi or
irs agent who pulls together the relevant numbers they have heard about. >> i am wrapped. i am on it. thank you both. next, why a woman known as manhattan madam spoke with robert mueller's special counsel team. that in two minutes. wednesday august 8th,
thomas rhett and kelsea ballerini host... let's get this started! cma fest wednesday august 8th 8/7 central on abc. xfinity gives you more of the cma fest with an encore performance from old dominion right after the show. only with xfinity on demand. and watch it live on abc wednesday august 8th. once upon a time in the new york city in the tabloids no bigger story than the manhattan madam scandal. the madam was kristin davis. ran a high profile sex service. wednesday, kristin davis met with the team of robert mueller. she is a good friend of roger stone. >> the key difference between
the mta and my former escort agency was that i ran one set of books. >> roger stone has been making super super weird instagram post about davis with her child. why do fbi agents dispatched by robert mueller keep asking my friends if i am the father of this baby. in a statement today stone said kristin davis is a long time friend of associate of mine. i am the god father to her 2-year-old son. joining me to help understand what is going on is michael issi koff. what is going on?
>> i can attest that kristin davis was very close to roger stone at the crucial period that mueller is looking at. i remember interviewing roger stone at the office of yahoo and kristin davis showed up with him and they left together. so you know, clearly what is interesting here to me is that mueller obviously -- stone obviously remains clearly a subject of mueller's investigation. mueller has farmed out other aspects that he has come across such as michael cohen's taxi stuff and the illegal election money to the southern district in new york.
he hasn't done that with roger stone. when that indictment came out a couple of weeks ago about the hacking of the dnc, there was explicit reference to stone. somebody who was in regular touch with donald trump during the 2016 campaign and was in communication with guccifer 2.0. most likely this relates to information that she may have about who stone was in communication with and how he was communicating during that crucial time in september and october. >> yeah, that part of it to me, the only way to make sense that her talking to mueller is her talking about stone. >> and stone having to do something about stone's communications in 2016 in the closing months of the campaign.
>> which is part of andrew miller, constitutionality of the entire mueller operation. it seems to me that you know, we don't know what is going to happen, but to your point about he farmed other stuff out, stone seems like he is sitting right there in the tractor beam of the mueller investigation. >> all of the signs are that mueller is closing in on stone and if we are going to see a case, it is extremely likely we will see it in a few weeks. he doesn't want to be accused of bringing cases in the course of the election. so you know, this may drag out until post election, but i would think given the pace of activity that it is reasonable to think that we could be seeing something soon. one other thing worth mentioning, yes, we have been focused on communications that tone appeared to have or
advanced knowledge appeared to have about what wikileaks was going to be releasing, theed to desa time in the barrel. stone also running this operation, called stop the steal which was an election poll watching event that was designed to intimidate voters or suppress african american participation in the election. may be questions about the funding of that that mueller is interested in and that kristin davis could provide answers for. >> the closeness of them. it makes a bit more sense in the context of that. though what doesn't make sense is the bizarre instagram post. maybe they are asking about the child but those are weird.
>> a lot of things that he is doing as of late is weird. somewhat unhinged. so you know, i think stone is clearly feeling the heat. >> thank you so much for being here. >> any time. >> next, remarkable new report of the "washington post" that shows the president's new york hotel reaping windfall profits from the saudi family. i will talk to the reporter who broke the story after this.
hypothetically, just spit balling here, if you wanted to bribe the current president of the united states, the simplest way to do so is to throw money at his businesses. thank about that for a second. a story today from the "washington post," it looked lake the hotel was set to take a loss and then came a last minute visit to new york by none other than the crown prince of saudi arabia. this cams from a letter obtained by the post. the crown prince didn't seen stay at the hotel. according to the general manager, he wrote in his letter we were able to accommodate many of his foreign travelers. he doesn't stay in. such transactions have fuelled criticisms accusing the president of reaping revenue from foreign governments in
violation of the practice. to talk more about what we know about what is going on, joined by jonathan o'connor. >> we know the saudi prince came to new york in a publicized visit. and we know that stay was lucrative enough for the trump hotel that their revenue went up 13% instead of dropping as it has done in the previous years. >> they don't have shareholders, my understanding is the letter is kind of like the earnings call that you would do if you
did have shareholders. he is saying when you want to look at what quarter we had, we had this big boost. >> the hotel is managed and branded by president trump's company. the units in the hotel are mostly owned by independent investors. every so often they get a report from the general manager about how leasing is going and how the hotel is performing. >> so this was that letter to them. >> is this constitutional? >> no. it is blatantly on constitutional. on its face the constitution prohibits of taking emoluments, profits. the constitution even mentions princes that federal officers cannot take something of value from a prince or a foreign state and the reason for this is
really obvious. we can't have federal officers and especially the president of the united states who is getting cash in his pocket from foreign governments while we are making critical foreign policy decisions about trade and diplomacy. >> and war and peace in the middle east on whether we are going to let the saudis invade qatar for instance. would we know if someone is doing it. >> they said was the profits from the major business at their hotel company. we don't know anything more than that. we don't know who the people
spending that money are other than a few published reports about major stays at mostly the trump d.c. hotel. we don't know how much each of them spent or who exactly stayed there. so quite a bit we don't know. and we may learn more about the business because of this lawsuit that was already filed. >> what do you think of the lawsuit? >> it was an incredible lawsuit. new york should be in the lawsuit so we can learn about what is happening in new york with new york businesses, the other stories from the trump international hotel that we don't know. the other stories about foreign moneys going through trump's businesses that we don't know. and actually a week after donald trump was elected before he took office, i sounded the alarm and said look, it looks like donald
trump is set to violate this essential clause of the constitution. and three days after donald trump took office we filed the first emolument lawsuit. we know there is unconstitutional behavior but only from public reports. we don't have the tax returns and we don't know the financial flows. >> this is somewhat uncharted constitutional territory. >> absolutely. >> and for a lot of reasons, we haven't had a person like this be president of the united states before, but the federal judge said yeah, you have standing and this is a real case that could go forward. >> right. and the particularly tough news for the trump organization out of that court case is the judge seemed to define emoluments very broadly compared to the way the department of justice defined it.
for a service they are paying, market rate for, could be defined under emolument. and the judge has been clear if you look at what he said about the case so far, a competitive in new york, another state may have stand figure there is a hotel or business in their jurisdiction or area that is conducting this business. >> zephyr, you are nodding your head. >> they had a bizarre definition of emolument. saying it is only an emolument if it is a bribe. the judge set a ruling to define emolument that i and others have been pushing. this prohibition is against money coming in from foreign governments and you don't have to prove this is some pro quo.
>> why a judge today federal judge slammed the trump administration by suggesting that somebody else take over the work of reuniting families. and next, what is great britain anyway, that is thing one, thing two after this.
international geography lesson. i am sure you are familiar with the region. it can get confusing. this is great britain. made up of three countries, england, scotland and wales. this is the united kingdom. united kingdom of great britain and ireland. and finally, you have the british isles encompassing everything in this blue circle. the republic of ireland. and the aisle of man and many islands. any of us is not the president of the united states. >> people call it britain, they call it great britain, they used to call it england. but the uk, great respect. >> and that is thing two in 60 seconds.
donald trump owns a golf course if scotland you think he would have a decent understanding. weirdly, trump has had a really, really tough time with uk geography, he once told, you don't hear the word britain anymore. you have different names, you can say england, you can say uk, you can say united kingdom. i always say which one do you prefer. last month's nato trip, he told the sun, he prefers england. >> it is so true. you don't hear england anymore. last night trump was in pennsylvania and he brought up
uk once again. >> i have great respect for the uk, united kingdom. people call it britain, they call it great britain, they used to call it england, different parts. but the uk, great respect. >> nobody elected this man to get the names of places right. >> i am greatly honored to host this lunch to be joined by the leaders ethiopia, guinea. >> belgium is a beautiful city. >> we are praying for the people of puerto rico. we love puerto rico. >> heroin overdoses are surging, nevada. and great to be back in missouri.
this russia thing with trump and russia. >> jerusalem is not just the heart of great religion. >> it has to be nevada. and if you don't say it correctly, it didn't happen to me, but it happened to a friend of mine, he was killed. thank you very much. thank you.
so that is the scene at the victory party for diane black last night. pretty bleak as she trailed by double digits in her bid to secure the nomination. congresswoman black had sacrificed a lot to run for office. resigning as chairman yet all for naught. coming in third. she became the latest house republican rejected by their own party's voters. congressman jenkins rejected. congressman messer of indiana rejected in his home state senate primary. his competition also rejected. rejected congressmen who wanted to keep their seats. condition agrees in general is massively unpopular. the average approval rating is wallowing around 15%.
with seven republican members of congress rejected in various primaries this year, house republicans being shunned by their own party voters. the midterm election are just 95 days away. the midterm election are just 95 days away.
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calling the administration's delays and getting still-separated migrant children back to their children unacceptable. the trump administration, get this, wanted the aclu to take the lead in family reunification, even though it was this administration that separated those families in the first place. but then, nonprofits have been trying to clean up the government's mess on this very issue for months, as our own trymaine lee found out back in june, when he travelled to arizona and talked to the florence project. that's a group that provides free legal services to detained immigrants. >> it's very empty. it's very isolating. physically and emotionally. the detention centers are placed out there for a reason. it is very intentional. >> annabel brazaha drives this dusty highway four times a week to the infamous eloi detention center. it's a jail run by a private prison corporation. now it houses undocumented immigrants. 15 of them have died in as many years, due to suicide or inadequate medical care.
>> what's the toughest part about making this trip? >> the toughest part. not being able to help them in the way that they want you to help them. >> reporter: annabel works for the florence project. they call themselves legal first responders for immigrants. some who have been separated from their children by the u.s. government. many don't know their rights. they often don't have money for an attorney and don't speak english. annabel is here right to help them. >> was this a good day or a not-so-good day? >> uh, i don't think it was a good day, personally. just from the conversations and the reactions that i had and the tears that i had, i definitely think i would need to decompress a little bit and see how i can help further. >> reporter: these parents were in tears? >> yes, they were in tears. >> reporter: there are more than 3,000 undocumented immigrants imprisoned in arizona on any given day. and the florence project is the only nonprofit providing free
legal aid to them. >> what we're seeing right now is completely unprecedented in terms of the family separation. >> lawrence st. john is the florence project's legal director. >> a 2-year-old can't tell you, their mother or father's name. it's just mommy and daddy, right? a 2-year-old can't tell you, well, how does mom tell spel -- spell that name. and we have to track this person down and it's extremely difficult. >> is there any legal resource for families who have had their kids ripped away from them. >> if you're being deported, you might have right to have an attorney, but only if you can pay for one. and that means at least in the facilities that we work in, approximately 86% of the people here will go through the process without an attorney. >> what kind of outcome do they face? these trained lawyers, the american government, a court system that operates differently than the american criminal court system, right? >> overall, the system is
extremely difficult for people and there are a lot of people who have potentially valid claims, who simply for lack of a lawyer, are not able to explain themselves well enough to be able to prevail on those claims. >> they're also worried about what's going to happen to their children. >> reporter: this is the first point of contact that many of the immigrants that florida helps each year. she's a lifeline. >> what's going through their mind? they've been separated from their child. they have one phone call. what are they thinking? >> one of the clients said, you know, this isn't justice, but this is how it is. >> the latest government numbers on separated families, 572 immigrant children remain in goth's custody across the country. not been reunited. with me now, legal deputy director of the aclu's immigrant rights projects, i've got to say, when you look at that project, the florence project, they're not as big as the aclu, you're a big national
organization, but even the aclu, is it as crazy as it seems to me, that the federal government, who separated the kids, to turn around and go to a federal court and say, we think the aclu should put everyone back together? >> it was a stunning submission by the government. they were basically saying, look, you go do it and find the parents and tell us when you find them. we have a lot of support, but nowhere near the support the u.s. government has. and the government, worse, is sitting on information that could help us, and they haven't given it to us. they have phone numbers of parents, they haven't given it to us. we have addresses from them. sometimes it's just a city with 700,000 people. that was the address they gave us. they're telling us to get us the phone numbers, they need eight more days. that's terrible. >> okay, i'm confused here. so we've got -- you know, we had 2,500 -- the numbers get confusing, around 2,500. the vast majority have been reunited, right? >> right. >> as a documented fact, that has happened. >> and we're thrilled about that. >> right. 1,700, 1,800, somewhere in that ballpark?
>> i think without this judge's ruling, we may have been looking at 5,000 kids separated by now. now we're down to 500, but those 500 are critical. we're talking about them being orphaned if we don't find these parents. >> so we have 500 left. we have 2,000 reunited and 500 left. the vast majority, my understanding, of that class of kids who, they're waking up every day in some detention facility in some foster care facility, in some child detention center facility. the vast majority, their parents have been deported. >> exactly. and the government is saying, look, i don't know, they're in honduras somewhere. is that basically -- >> yeah, they're telling us what country they're in and that's basically it. and yesterday they gave us addresses for some of them, but they're barely usable. and we said, you know, what about the phone numbers, they said, oh, we don't know you wanted the phone numbers. we'll try to get you phone numbers in ten days. why not go through the files and find the phone numbers. we've offered to send our paralegals down there and in one
day they'll get through those 400 files and see how many phone numbers there are. >> what did the judge think about the government's idea that you put everybody back together? >> yeah, the judge was crystal clear. the government separated these children. these children are in real harm. it's the government's responsibility. and he said, i want a point person from the government and i want that person to submit a plan, because right now, i thought i was getting a plan from the government. i've got nothing. >> there's also real concern about the conditions these kids are in. >> right. >> we've had a number of reports. propublica has been reporting about southwest key, which is one of the biggest contractors. it's a nonprofit, but it's got hundreds of millions of government contracts. arizona central yesterday, another southwest key employee arrested for sex abuse at a shelter, court documents show. i believe that's the third, any am not mistaken, from that particular employer. are you concerned about that? >> we've been concerned about conditions in facilities housing children for a long time. and that's exactly why you wouldn't want to put more children there. you know, the government is suggesting that, well, even if we reunite them, maybe we're going to detain a bunch of them. you don't need to detain families, a mother with a 2-year-old.
there's plenty of ways to ensure supervision. the trump administration got rid of a way that was 98% effective that the obama administration had created at the end. and now, they've released a lot of people. >> they have? >> fortunately. but there's still a lot of people detained. and those people need representation immediately. because they're in danger of being deported. >> here's the thing that's so crazy to me. play out the logic here. so let's say the 400 children that are currently in u.s. custody are being cared for by the u.s. taxpayer, first of all. >> right. >> right? >> i mean, what is the government's plan here? if the government's plan is, well, we deported the parents, we're not reuniting them, what are you going to do with the kids? raise them until they're 18? give them to some family like we're in argentina in the dirty wars? what's the deal? >> right, from the government's self-interest, they ought to be finding these parents. that's less energy and taxpayer money than trying to find a place for these children. otherwise, we're just stuck with these children.
The latest news from around the world with Victor Blackwell and Christi Paul.
to bomb them. so to keep that negotiation lukewarm at best, and to continue chipping away at the international sanctions regime. this sanctions regime as we learned from the u.n. report is like swiss cheese, there are so many holes in it. north korea is violating the import ban, the export ban, they're selling conventional arms to bad actors in libya and yemen, and we know that china and russia are very supportive of lifting sanctions on north korea while all of that is happening, so north korea's best bet is let's keep talking to the united states, let's keep producing ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons, and keep trying to get china and russia to pressure the united states to lift sanctions in the interim. >> and speaking of russia, pompeo's warning to enforce north korean sanctions, given that russia uses a lot of workers from north korea, will russia listen to that? and what's really going on with
the latest poll shows the candidates neck in neck. this is a big swing from a little more than a month ago when the republicans led by ten points. sarah westwood is in new jersey where he is tweeting ahead of the rally. what do we expect from him in ohio? >> reporter: christi, president trump is taking a break from his working vacation in new jersey to head to that ohio rally later today for balderson who is in a tough race. trump has been active on twitter, tweeting twice support of the candidate's record on border security and the second amendment and took a swipe at nancy pelosi who republicans have sought to use as a foil, particularly in this race but also in dozens of other republican contests around the country. sources tell cnn that trump aides hope to use political rallies and events like the one tonight to distract the president from the russia
investigation as trump is said to be increasingly frustrated about the russia probe, the fact it is still going on, the fact that it continues to pull focus away from his agenda. president trump will head to this rally as his lawyers are continuing to negotiate the final details of a sit down interview with mueller, and as his campaign manager paul manafort stands trial for tax fraud and money-laundering. sources tell cnn trump is angry about the details flowing out of the manafort trial which began this week. so the ohio rally could be an important distraction for trump as republicans are working hard to prevent democrats from noc notching another victory. >> thanks very much. matt foreman, communications director joins us. we saw the numbers, 44% for
balderson. >> he is going to energize, galvanize republicans. it is important. every vote matters in a tight special election like this. we expect him to talk about troy's record, fought opioid abuse and human trafficking while in the senate. the contrast between troy and danny o'connor. he supports the tax cuts that helped the economy, helped with economic growth and helped wages rise. that's the key contrast tonight and also in the special election. >> the president does have good news to talk about gdp growth, 4.1%. unemployment rate falling to 3.9%. as i understand it, o'connor has been hammering balderson for backing the tax plan. they say tax cuts are going to threaten social security, going to threaten medicare.
do you think that's part of the reason that there's a shrinking gap in numbers and how might the president try to change that tonight with this particular audience because this audience also is full of farmers and people who may be concerned with tariffs as well. >> it is going to be tight. no doubt about that. special elections are special for a reason. i think a key point is that a lot of liberal donors and money have been flooding the greater columbus district from outside ohio, and that changed a lot. i don't think danny o'connor has been honest about his position for last week, for instance, after running adds disavowing nancy pelosi, he admitted he would vote for her for speaker. danny o'connor is dishonest, lying about his vote for speaker and lying about balderson's record. >> mistakes are made that could be detrimental. the president earlier tweeted congressman steve stivers of
president. we have to see what happens. we tell members you need to do what's right for your district. when it comes down to it, our children has spoken out about some of the effects it would have in his district and folks in minnesota and iowa. you need to do what's right for your district. we don't have a top down approach on how you handle candidates. people in heavily democratic districts held by republicans. >> i want to ask you one more thing about this remarkable moment this week where president trump came out and talked about how the russia interference is a hoax, he did so just after all his national security leaders came out and said we know that they have been interfering. we just talked a couple hours ago to representative ryan costello of pennsylvania. he had something to say about that separation between the president and his national
leaders. let's take a look here. >> the president has missed the mark here in terms of coming down forcefully and clearly against russia and its election interference, but the director of homeland security, the national director of intelligence, national security adviser, those are the folks we should be listening to as it relates to russian interference in the election. we just have to set aside what the president may have said at a rally or at a summit overseas and place our faith in those administration officials who have been tasked with this obligation. >> i think what's striking about that, matt, is that this is a republican in congress who is telling people to set aside what the president says. how did you tell republicans who are going to vote that their vote will count and that it matters if they may be needing more clarity, they may be
needing more confidence. >> what you saw there is why congressman costello is in a tight even district. obviously that might be an agreement with the president or disagreement. that's common with candidates like troy balderson across the country. people whether in ohio on tuesday but also this fall will focus on economic issues. they understand what we have seen with the economy come roaring back and are not following day to day of the russian investigation and other things that consume cable news chatter on twitter. >> you're right. people don't pay close attention all the time to the russian investigation, but they do pay attention to the fact they want their vote to matter, they want their vote to count. when you've got national leaders in the intelligence community coming out and saying this is happening rngs there is an -- happening, there is an
interference, there has to be concern about that very thing. do you have concerns about president trump alientating people outside his -- alienating people outside his base which hinders growth of his base? >> president trump's approval ratings are like barbells. there's a strong contingent that are enthusiastic that oppose the president and there's a strong base of support that approve. those people who disapprove of the president are going to come out and vote. we need to be sure that president trump galvanizing his base of supporters in that district and make sure they vote, too. it is important that troy go to the house, is elected to be a voice for ohio, and the agenda he supports. >> what if he doesn't, what if he loses? >> excuse me? >> what if he loses, what is the consequence of that? >> i am not getting into hypothetical scenarios, we wake up every morning as if we're ten
points down. we understand we're in a fight and we understand that history is against us. only once after 9/11 in 2002 has the president's party gained seats in the house in their first midterm election. however, there's a reason for optimism. i talked about it at length. soaring economy, great candidates like troy, and members across the country like barba barbara comstock, and also nancy pelosi, the most unpopular politician in every district in the country. that's a fact. there's a clear choice between the gop majority and our agenda to get the economy going again, going back to the days of speaker pelosi and single payer health care. >> a lot of people are watching ohio tuesday. thank you so much. appreciate you being here. >> thanks for having me. stay with us this hour. we're going to speak with the chairman for the ohio democratic party coming up in a half hour. robert mueller's team spoke
with the man hhattan madam this week. what her connection could be in the russian investigation. ohio head coach urban meyer sounded confident days after being placed on leave. the latest in the domestic abuse scandal around a former coach now. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
take prilosec otc and take control of heartburn. so you don't have to stash antacids here... here... or, here. kick your antacid habit with prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. we are following the president's visit to ohio to campaign this afternoon. joining me, cnn political analyst ron bronstein. >> good morning. >> let's talk about this trip. i guess i'm not surprised the president is going. i am surprised i believe he won in 2016, the president won this area by 11 points. now the republican candidate, not trump, but the candidate who is running is neck and neck with his democratic opponent. what happened? >> well, yeah, good point. the fact we're talking about this district at all is
striking. it was drawn in 2010 after the redistricting then to make it more republican. the republican incumbent that stepped down to create the open seat won 67%, 68%, 64% in the last three elections. comfortably republican in the 2016, 2012, 2008. 86% white. but it is the most educated district in ohio, highest income district in ohio, and that's exactly where donald trump, the price of the trump presidency, the trade he is imposing on the party is that he is strengthening in small town areas but losing traditionally republican voters in white collar suburbs. if you look at the poll, the monmouth poll earlier in the hour, he is looking at a 60% disapproval rating among college educated white women in the district, nearly half of college educated white men. the democrat hasn't succeeded in harvesting all of those
diseffected white collar republican leaning voters for himself, and that is a critical challenge for democrats, but it is the president's erosion in white collar suburbs, particularly around columbus, that created the opening for democrats to compete in the district where historically they haven't been competitive before. >> democrats are hoping those in the suburbs are going to stay home? in other words not going to cast a vote? >> i think they're hoping to switch. this is similar to the district that connor lamb won in pennsylvania a few months ago outside pittsburgh. it is a district that starts in suburban areas and radiates into more rural areas. these happen to be suburban areas more republican than others in the state, further out from columbus, delaware county which is a rock rib republican county. these are the kind of places. you look in new jersey, suburbs of philadelphia, northern virginia, suburbs of chicago,
denver, minneapolis, orange county, california where i am, this is the epicenter of republican vulnerability in 2018. not the only vulnerability but it is where i think the risk is most highly concentrated. donald trump is underperforming among those voters who are doing well economically, but who view him as an affront to values in many cases. >> before we run out of time, let me bring this up. you're raising a great point and this goes along with that. while trump is prepared for ohio, new details come out in the russian investigation, and the woman known as the manhattan madam, kristin davis who went to jail for running a prostitution ring and sat down for interview with the special counsel team last week. on the surface does it appear she's somehow connected to the russia investigation, ron, or why is robert mueller interested in this former madam and how does it play into his total investigation?
>> you know, sara murray that reported this story for cnn said we don't know exactly. we have seen the pattern with paul manafort that the special counsel is looking broadly at these targets in the investigation to try to find, to understand their dealings more broadly and where it may be relevant. she may either know something from her period working directly for roger stone or she may be of interest as a way of creating pressure on roger stone. either way i think what we have learned is that the special counsel is developing a 360 view of targets in this investigation. i don't mean targets in the legal sense, i mean targets of the investigation, and he is basically learning everything that there is to be learned about them either as a way of finding vulnerabilities that might be irrelevant to the russian investigation or
creating pressure on them. >> all of this will play on the mienl minds of voters tuesday in ohio. >> amazing we're talking about this district. >> really is. thanks very much. appreciate the insight. >> thank you, martin. the tsa is looking to save money, are going to do so by cutting crucial security measures. which measures? we'll tell you. can be relentless. tremfya® is for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i'm ready. with tremfya®, you can get clearer. and stay clearer. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin, and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment,
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meyer is on administrative leave from the powerhouse football program of osu. at issue, when did he know about the abuse allegations? >> kaylee hartung is with us now. we know meyer sounded very optimistic he will return to the sidelines, yes? >> christi, what urban meyer is trying to do is make it clear he believes he followed proper protocol and procedure. this is a man that's a husband, a father to two daughters, a leader of many young men. he recognizes how he has been portrayed in the media since the story broke as a man who's indifferent to domestic violence and who didn't take action when needed. he issued a strongly worded statement on twitter yesterday saying, quote, here's the truth. while at the university of florida and now at the ohio state university, i have always followed proper reporting protocols and procedures when i learned of an student athlete,
coach or member of our staff by elevating the issues to the proper channels. now it broadens to what did urban meyer know, what did the university and athletic director know. when this story broke open and up ended the college football world, there was little room for debate whether courtney smith was a victim of domestic violence. there were text messages and photos to support her claims. now zach smith is speaking out for the first time with a very different version of events. >> anything that happened to her body was all just defensive movements to remove myself to the situation and that's it. i'm not going to get charged because i didn't do anything wrong. >> his denial goes against the mountain of evidence against him but it also brings to light the fact that the police made the university, made the ohio state
university aware of the allegations against him. what you can imagine, christi and martin, is that there is a paper trail that builds a time line to help us understand who knew what and when. >> yeah. there's still a lot more we need to know in this story. no doubt, an incredible, incredible fall from grace for this coach for the time being. we'll see how it plays out. kaylee hartung, thank you. >> thank you. so the tsa is considering eliminating security screenings among other things at more than 150 small and medium sized airports across the country. the new internal document obtained by cnn shows the tsa could save more than $300 million under the new measures. cnn aviation and government regulation correspondent rene marsh has more for us. >> reporter: a new internal tsa document cnn exclusively obtained shows the proposal to eliminate screening at more than 150 small to medium size
airports is just one of several cost saving measures the agency is discussing. a senior tsa employee tells cnn the agency is looking at cuts that could save more than $300 million in 2020. one cut, reducing the number of air marshals, eliminating screening at small airports, staffing cuts at tsa headquarters, and changes to benefits being discussed. tsa did not comment. juliet juliette kayyem is concerned. >> ending security at certain airports, ending or flat lining the air marshall service are inconsistent. if you're going to decrease security at certain airports, what you would want to do is increase the presence of air marshals and other security features just in case. >> reporter: cnn revealed the most controversial cut, eliminating screening at small airports like this one in
redding, california where bryant garrett is the manager. >> since i as the airport don't want to take on that liability nor the cost and i'm quite certain the airlines don't want to take that on, so if tsa backs out, there's a void and i don't know who would fill it. >> reporter: air marshals are the last line of defense, armed agents aboard planes to prevent hijackings. the tsa defended the program as a deterrent. agencies discuss where to trim all the time, but the big question congress and likely the american public is asking and would like explained is whether the cuts are being considered because the threat and risk to aviation has changed or is this just an indication that the agency is under extreme pressure to cut costs. rene marsh, cnn, washington. still ahead, president trump
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10, 11 points in 2016. so we've seen a big swing in polls recently. what do you think is going on? >> you know, it is a bunch of things. as you said this is a district that was designed, gerrymandered to not have close competition. it is amazing it is within single digits, let alone in the margin of error. you have a lot of things, you have energized democrats on the ground. this district has a lot of moderate suburban voters that say voted for mitt romney, who are not excited about the way the president is behaving, so there's a lot of republicans that are open to a good candidate. the third piece is our candidate is a strong candidate, unlike that donald trump tweet, he is independent minded and the candidate on the republican side, like a lot of the ones we have seen lately is a weak candidate. he is not talking to the press, hasn't had much grass roots effort. you have a mismatch in terms of
talent and quality of candidates. former voters are open minded about looking for new candidates, and a candidate on the republican side, he said he couldn't name one thing he disagreed with trump with. people across this country -- >> that district, you talk about suburban columbus, i want to show you something else, the number of times the president came in to support a candidate, he has been highly successful. 19 wins to 4 losses. he is coming in today into ohio and he is going to back the republican, and i'm wondering, do you think it could make all the difference in favor of the republican candidate? >> again, if you look at this district, the president is slightly underwater in this district, moderates are not
impressed, particularly suburban women. he may energize voters. my guess is a lot of people won't be from the district, but he will repeat the reasons people are energized against him. people want checks and balances in this country now, even republicans, independents certainly do. when you have a candidate on one side, the republican here who can't name one thing he disagrees with trump on, that's not a check and balance. our candidate has said he thinks we need new leadership in washington, he is willing to work with republicans on issues where we can make progress, he is also willing to stand up. that's the kinds of leadership people are looking for now. >> real quick. hold on. this is going to hinge on turnout. who shows up at the polls. that's got to be as much a concern for you as republicans. it is a special election. it is the middle of summer, a time when many people aren't thinking politics. >> right. absolutely. right now we have hundreds of volunteers out all over the
district knocking on doors. they have been doing it for months. this is a district people should know that for a year and a half there are activists that energize the district, long before they know there will be an election. this is one of the many districts where the sitting congressman, the one that resigned, retired, wouldn't even do a town hall meeting. this is a district where activists have been protesting his office every week for a year. then he steps aside. now all of the activists are doing get out the vote work. on our side, we love the energy we're seeing. these folks are wonderful people that want a better america, better washington. they have been knocking on doors for months and are doing it right now. i think it is fair, republicans i think would agree, our ground game is far stronger than theirs. that's why they need trump coming in. this is basically, the guy's name is balderson. i call this the weekend of balderson's campaign. donald trump came in, paul ryan,
mike pence. >> this is going to come down to what the people decide in central ohio. we'll all be watching it carefully tuesday. we thank you, david pepper, for joining us, giving us your insights. appreciate it. >> thanks, martin. lebron james may have left for the bright lights of los angeles, but the lasting legacy for his hometown. a promise kept. we'll tell you about it. i can do more to lower my a1c. and i can do it with what's already within me. because my body can still make its own insulin. and once-weekly trulicity activates my body to release it. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen. it works 24/7. trulicity is an injection to improve blood sugar in adults
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example. he opened the i promise school in akron, ohio. >> talking to two guys from around that part of the country, that city. this isn't something he did on a whim. years of work in his hometown went into this. >> that's right. this difference maker brought to you by ford going further so you can. lebron james is not just a basketball player and he will not just stick to sports. he is a leader, creating positive change in the world, uniting, empowering our youth. lebron spoke to don lemon about what drives him to do more. >> starts with the trayvon martin situation, and the reason it starts with that i believe is because having kids of my own, having boys of my own, it hit home for me to see it is a learning story and to think if my boy left home and never returned, it kind of hit a switch. from that point on i knew my
voice and my platform had to be used for more than just sports. me being able to put something like this together, i want people to know these kids should still have the same opportunity as everyone else. i know exactly what they're going through so they're the reason why this school is here today. being in a support system, and that's what this is all about, it allows you to kind of escape away from the drugs and violence and gunshots and things that go on on everyday basis. that's what we're here for now. that's why i'm opening this school to get these kids' minds, body away from that. let them know not only do we want you here, we really do care about what happens with you. it is so surreal. i don't know. i never envisioned having a school. i envisioned being in a community, giving back to my community in some way, but i never thought it would turn into
a school. this is above and beyond. >> lebron says the school will be all encompassing, nurturing students and parents with on site food bank, job placement events, and christi, martin, free college tuition to university of akron for all graduates starting in 2021. >> so fabulous. coy, thank you so much. listen, imagine you're kayaking down swift moving rapids when an accident causes you to fall 20 feet onto a rock. doctors aren't sure you're going to walk again. >> that's what happened to one man. his story would change when he met this weekend's cnn hero. >> i'm a robot. >> my goal has always been to make a full recovery and i think a lot of people thought that was far fetched. it was a lot of hard work. i remember when i made the first couple of steps.
that's when i knew making a full recovery was possible. >> he is living the miracle of what we all want, what we all aspire for, to stand up and do it. he's doing it. >> i haven't witnessed that too often in my lifetime. >> if you want to know more about amanda's program, go to cnnheroes.com. >> pretty spectacular. all right. thanks for sharing your time with us today. we hope you make great memories the rest of the afternoon. >> end on a high note there. there's much more ahead in the next hour of cnn's "newsroom" after a quick break. >> see you tomorrow.
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