use propaganda and the ability to reach out as terrorists are doing and try to incite, and match that up with the tremendous power that social media tools allow to make that easy and simple and effective and broadly applicable. >> so, given that this is a strategy, and given that it's aimed not just at the united states, particularly with respect to interference in our elections, but at western europe and eastern europe, for that matter, is there an effort underway to work with our allies through nato or otherwise? i've been to the cybersecurity center in estonia, but there didn't seem to be a nato agreement that this is something we should be working on together to respond to. so is this an effort that is underway?
>> speaking from my lens on things, there is a lot of interest in doing that and doing it more effectively and more comprehensively, but we have not cracked the code on doing it effectively yet. and so we need to keep the pressure on ourselves and our nato allies, who are like-minded in this regard, to keep improving our approach. >> and it's also got to be much broader than just cyber. >> thank you. director clapper, my time is almost up. but before you go, since this is the last opportunity we will have to hear from you, can i just ask you, do you think the dni needs reform? >> there is always room for improvement. i would never say that this is the ultimate. i do think it would be useful, though, if we are going to reform or change the dni or change cia that some attention
be given to, in our case, the legislative underpinnings that established the dni in the first place, and then have added additional functions and responsibilities over the years, that congress has added, two hour kit bag of duties. to say that there's not room for improvement, i would never suggest that. >> i appreciate that, and i certainly agree with you, i think that if there is going to be this major reform, hopefully both legislators and others who have been engaged in the intelligence community will be part of that effort. >> i certainly agree the congress, no pun intended, gets a vote here, i think. >> thank you. >> i know that our time has expired, and i apologize to our new members that we won't have time because you have to go.
but director clapper, since this may be, hopefully, your last appearance, do you have any reflections that you'd like to provide us with, particularly the role of congress or the lack of role of congress in your years of experience? >> i have to be careful here. >> i don't think you have to be. >> i was around in the intelligence community when the oversight committees were first established, and have watched them and have experienced them ever since. congress does have, clearly, an extremely important role to play when it comes to oversight of intelligence activities. and unlike many other endeavors of the government, much of what we do, virtually all of what we do, is done in secrecy. so the congress has a very
important and crucial responsibility on behalf of the american people for overseeing what we do, particularly in terms of legality and protection of civil liberties and privacy. at risk of delving into a sensitive area, though, i do think there is a difference between oversight and micromanagement. >> well, we thank you. we think the witnesses, and this has been a very helpful -- and director clapper, we will be calling you again. >> really? [laughter] >> this meeting is adjourned. >> and with that, capitol hill they are getting ready to get up from the table there, that is the director of the national intelligence, and james clapper has been sitting in that seat for the better part of two and a half, almost three hours,
answering questions bread we have been watching the intel chief standing behind claiming that russia did indeed metal with our elections. so what exactly is the hard evidence? that was the central issue at this hearing on capitol hill, and we watched them leave now. this is "outnumbered," i'm harris hock wagner. kennedy, national security council staff member, right on time, under presidents bush and obama, gillian turner, and today's #oneluckyguy, cohost of "america's newsroom" ," bill hemmer. glad to have you. >> bill: happy new year, happy to be with you. >> harris: 2017, all right, let's get to the news. the director of national intelligence and the head of the national security agency testified about russia's meddling in the presidential election. all of this as president-elect donald trump, who will be sworn in 15 days from now, continues to express doubts about russia's interference. and amid a report which the trump transition team denies, the president-elect is looking to revamp the intel community
once he takes office. a short while ago, armed services chair senator john mccain asked chief james clapper if he stood by the previous assessment that senior russian officials were behind the hacking. >> based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts not only that only russia's seniormost officials could have authorized in these activities, general klapper, clapper, is that something you stand behind? >> actually we stand more resolutely on the strength of that statement and we made on the seventh of october. >> harris: chief intel correspondent joins us now live from capitol hill, good to see you, catherine. >> thank you, harris. witnesses testified this morning that the u.s. intelligence community is more confident today than it was back in october that the interference was directed by senior russian
authorities. and they also testified that it was part of a multi-faceted campaign that included the theft of emails, as well as disinformation and the use of state news. they also emphasized that they never found any evidence that any of the vote tallies were changed, but other issues were harder to measure. >> they did not change any vote tallies or anything of that sort, and we have no way of gauging the impact that certainly the intelligence community can't gauge, the impact that it had on the choice of the electorate made. there is no way for us to gauge that. >> witnesses consistently testified to the senate armed services committee that the campaign was directed by senior russian authorities. there was only a single mention of vladimir putin by name, and that came within the last hour, and it was given by dni james clapper, who said something of
this political sensitivity, the interference and meddling in the american election, could only have happened with his blessing. in time, three transition sources have confirmed to fox news that the trump team is considering a restructuring of the u.s. intelligence community, a kind of streamlining, in an effort to deal with what is described as the bloat in leadership and a politicization of the intelligence itself, as described to us as something that is very preliminary. though this morning the incoming white house press secretary said the report that was carried in "the wall street journal" was false. in effect, though, this did come up at the hearing a short time ago. >> yesterday "the wall street journal" indicated that the president-elect is considering changes to the intelligence community. have you at all as the experts in this field and engaged in any of these discussions? >> no, we have not. >> based on our reporting, we
understand that the intelligence report that exceeds about 50 pages, the classified version, has been dropped off at the white house, and that if the president wishes to be brief, that will be happening today. then the president-elect will get his brief tomorrow, friday. a key question to really be following though in the next few days is that if this intelligence report was just finished this week, on what basis did the obama white house make the decision to impose sanctions on russia and then to expel 35 diplomats? >> all right, thank you very much, catherine, for setting us straight on many of the fact that we will talk about right now. so bill hemmer, i want to start with you. just basically with this hearing, i think we were all perched thinking that we would learn lots of new details. it might be contentious. this was friendly. >> bill: i thought the biggest headline was from john mccain when he said, we have no strategy. here's a guy who just came from eastern europe, and they feel a threat on behalf of moscow all the time. what senator mccain said was,
our nation has no strategy to deter cyber attacks bid we have no strategy. talk about radio free europe, and lindsey graham almost made fun of it, suggesting it was outdated. >> harris: he did make fun of it. >> lindsay was in a mood. >> bill: answer this, russia and china present the greatest cyber security threat to the u.s., but iran is trying to increase and spend more on its capabilities. one was that written? april, 2016. that was nine months ago. what are we doing as a government if they have already recognized that this is an issue, what are we doing to catch up? i thought that last part was very well taken. are we going after capacity or intent? probably should go after both, because if they are doing a toss, we should return favor. >> harris: you know what's interesting, senator lindsey graham was in a mood. and he was, and he brought up the point of hitting russia back with what he called the rock. he said that he feels like president obama has just thrown a pebble. but that is not to stay the same as to label what is going on as espionage.
he went back and forth with clapper about that. >> i understand, and i understand that senators graham and mccain are hardliners when it comes to these issues, and i said it before and i will state again, my worry is that if we keep focusing on russia, we are not going to focus on what is most important, which is our vulnerabilities and our cyber security, because if we are only looking in one place that means we are not looking everywhere else. >> harris: or anywhere else. >> kennedy: i thank this is a very valid time to have the conversations about our national security apparatuses and while hillary clinton bragged about 17 security agencies and intelligence agencies agreeing that russia was interfering with the u.s. electoral system, my question is, why do we have 17 intelligence agencies? >> harris: okay, so i understand what you're saying about not necessarily just focusing on russia, but it's interesting that there are reports i may be some in the transition team, particularly the top national security picks that are getting ready to be deposed on capitol hill next week, for lack of a better word, defense secretary nominee, general james mattis, said
russia could be the most dangerous rival that we have. so is it true or not? mitt romney said so. >> gillian: i was just going to bring that up. remember when mitt romney said that in 2012 and he got laughed out of the room. well, he was right. a couple of things on the cyber front. one is the united states is much better on offense than on defense when it comes to cyber. we've got some of the best folks who are able to penetrate systems around the globe, but for whatever reason, the government has been lagging behind for many, many years now. and in spite of all these efforts, in spite of millions, maybe billions of dollars spread across all these different intelligence agencies over the last decade, we haven't made a lot of progress. there was a cyber czar appointed that was supposed to help manage all of that, dear member at the beginning of the administration? >> sometimes it's not adding another layer of bureaucracy that cures the problem, and we do it with all of these problems. we've seen it with the va. >> harris: how do we square this with the idea of what the
president-elect has said about russia? he has a healthy skepticism, we learn today that the fbi -- >> i would welcome some more skepticism from the president-elect on russia. >> because james clapper, here's what he said. i think there is an important distention here between healthy skepticism, which policymakers should have, but i think there is a difference between skepticism and disparagement. which i think was a really key thing. >> bill: i think two major points on this, watch to see what the president-elect says tomorrow. watch his words after he gets his own briefing at trump tower. the second thing, am i the only one that thinks this hearing today may not be the best idea? where the foremost democratic government and the entire world. we have a new administration coming in in 15 days. and you allow in open public hearing to be the center of a partisan debate. perhaps not in the witnesses, but may be in the questions that were asked. is this the time to be doing that? can't you take some of this, if not a lot of it, behind closed
doors and achieve the same end? >> and why are we speaking in absolutes? why is the director of national intelligence saying things like it can only be members at the highest level of the russian government. why? >> bill: he said it did not change vote tallies. he said there is no way to gauge the choice that voters made. okay. as an american -- >> but it has to be at the highest level! >> bill: let me just make the point. show me some evidence. i haven't seen it. it hasn't been made public. at what point will we -- >> harris: the very public nature that we are always talking about is coming back to the very first thought that i was expressing, it was decidedly friendly. you really can't tear into each other right now, we are talking about the same thing that we agree on being safe. we'll move on. republicans win the first battle in their effort to repeal obamacare. what their replacement plan may look like, and whether the repeal effort could backfire. and just two weeks from tomorrow, president-elect donald trump will be inaugurate
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first battle over obamacare. it came in the form of a vote to fast-track procedures allowing lawmakers to kill the 2010 health care law. without having to face a democratic filibuster in the senate. here's reaction from senate minority leader chuck schumer. >> the republican plan to cut health care wouldn't make america great again, it would make america sick again. you can't keep the good parts of the aca and remove the rest of the law and still have it work. >> sandra: president-elect donald trump tweeting that it's time for republicans and democrats to get together and come up with a health care plan that really works, much less expensive, and far better. meantime, president obama reportedly told federal fellow democrats during a closed-door meeting yesterday not to rescue republicans by helping them pass replacement measures. tough to keep track of all that is going on here, and of course timing is going to be everythin everything. >> bill: there is a lot to say on this. do you want to start going? i think the incoming president
has a pretty good handle on the gravity of the change in this law. you watch his reaction so far, in mid-december when he was on his think you two are, we are going to repeal and replace obamacare, but we've got to be careful, we've got to do with the right way. he repeated that again yesterday. he knows that if an american patient, let's say, is harmed by the changes in this law, the they are going to be on the front page of every newspaper in america. they are going to be on every web site across america, and they are going to point the finger and blame republicans. so you break that thing, you bought it, and that is what they really have to be thinking about. >> so we are hearing these warnings from democrats, chuck schumer, repealing isn't going to make america great again, it will make them sick again. obvious he from nancy pelosi as well. >> kennedy: then why don't you help out republicans? charles schumer also said that you can't take the good parts and leave the bad parts, while there are so many bad parts. that means you have to leave the
whole thing by his logic. there are a lot of republicans, including the president-elect, who want to keep parts of it. i happen to disagree, i think you should scrap and replace. all at the same time so you don't have that giant leg. where people really could be hurt if they don't have coverage and they are left out in the cold. you really can't do that to people at this point. i think both sides realize this. but i'm sorry, the president-elect has, his head and heart are in the right place when he saying the republicans and democrats have to come together to find something that helps people that is far less expensive and far better. that is the message that resonates. when he had the president behind closed doors saying don't help republicans, don't rescue them, that is partisan politics. you are screwing around with people's health care, their health, and their lives, and that is unexceptional. >> no easy answer here, harris, but we would hope as all these politicians stand up there with her partisan politics that they would put the country first. >> harris: you know what is interesting, too, put businesses first as well pray to have a business person who was about to
take the presidency. and you talk about the salience of understanding how deep this issue is, do it right, but remember where he spent some time where hillary clinton didn't, and that was the rust belt. he has not just the understanding of the depth and the seriousness for individuals, but also for businesses in this country. he's got to get it right for them as well. >> kennedy talks about a lag, and my big worry here is you can't avoid a leg. remember when obamacare was finally passed, it took something like two years before even round one of implementation started. that was the fastest that they could legally get some of these programs implement it. >> it became a tax in the supreme court, basically. >> but the point is there is no way to avoid that, and we could argue about how many millions of people have health insurance today who didn't a few years ago, but it's millions. and what are you going to tell those people who are now looking at you as the new president and promising that things are going to be better and cheaper and
faster? he's not going to be able to get it done. he's not. >> bill: the democratic senator from west virginia said why is president obama coming up here and only talking to democrats and why is mike pence only talking to republicans? the wild card is the incoming president. we don't know what he's going to do in terms of selling this to democrats. no republican voted for obamacare. zero. can he make a plan that's palatable to some of these moderate democrats? >> i don't know after obamacare, though. >> just how to protect from a filibuster into go along with the rules, every democrat voted against it, and g.o.p. senator rand paul. >> that would be true if we were starting from scratch it would be different. but remember for democrats this is now a platform issue. >> we know what doesn't work, if we are starting from scratch we are starting from a completely different place, and i think they're a pointy of people who have been analyzing this who know what not to do now. >> bill: "the wall street journal" says voters tend to punish politicians you can but don't
solve problems, even if they did not cause them. i'm telling you, there is a wild card. >> last word there, a lot of praise for president obama from the pentagon, calling him a leader who decisively fought terror, kept our country safe, and neutralize the iran nuclear deal. but did he really do all of these things? tech: at safelite, we know how busy your life can be.
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sustainable i'm a principled partnerships. that's how we brought most of our troops home. that's how, even as we suffered terrible things at home from boston to orlando, no foreign terrorist organization has successfully planned and executed an attack on our homeland these past eight years. >> kennedy: other achievements, the pentagon saluted president obama for include neutralizing iran's nuclear threat, decimating al-qaeda's terrorist network, putting us on a path to defeating isis, strengthening israel's military, and improving our country's military ability. bill hemmer, there is a lot of back patting going on here, and it seems that we are dismissing quite a few important facts. >> bill: i hope all those things that you just said are correct. and accurate and stay that way. i think for this administration
the legacy of the war overseas and here at home will be judged not today, but for years to com come. >> absolutely, this is certainly something that will take historical perspective, but you look at what is happening in the middle east, and it certainly doesn't look like a rosier place than it did eight years ago. >> bill: not just the middle east, i think it has branched out, gillian, you know how many countries where isis has bred and operating in northern africa and southeast asia. this is something that will take a generation, and again, i hope the mayor it is there. for all of us, and for the rest of the world, but i think the answer is inconclusive. >> maybe even a multi-generational answer. it might take decades, because i don't think the threat of radical islam, whether in the form of al-qaeda or isis, is something that is on the wane around the world. the opposite, i think it is on the rise. not by way of justification, but rather explanation, i think where the pentagon gets this logic from, and this is something i've heard a lot of the military top brass touting
lately, is that isis is on the wane in iraq and syria, meaning where they formed the caliphate is shrinking, which is great. the problem is that of the same time, and i have said this before on the show, at the same time they are enjoying a massive expansion across the rest of the globe. so how you actually calculate their foothold versus their global footprint is a couple of different calculations. >> isn't it also true because that is where they are facing the most opposition, particularly from us and our allied forces in iraq and syria? that makes a lot of sense. and just real quickly, and i nodded and agreed wholeheartedly based upon the facts here, generalization lay, how long that will take. we just were learned that the state apartment has declared osama bin laden's son a terrorist, and has added him to the terror watch lit watch list. that is a whole new generation of hate. >> you also have, what happens in syria if isis truly is
defeated there? and don't tell that to turkey, who has undergone a series of terrorist attacks, including the one that killed dozens on new year's day. >> but when you praise president obama for keeping our nation safe, and you kind of look back to the election, bill, you can probably cite the polls, american people don't feel safer than they did eight years ago or ten years ago. i just look back at some of the polling back in june, 2016, and it clearly showed that people are more concerned now than they were when president obama took office. >> bill: it's a real threat, and i understand the reason why they have that fear and concern. i thought it was a little sad on new year's eve that you had the country of turkey, where all these young people have been gunned down during a new year's eve party, and how little attention we seem to give it now. i think the idea there, or the thought, is that we are moving into a new phase where we accept it, and that's bad and that's wrong, and that's dangerous.
whether it's here or somewhere else. i just thought we almost did not justify, perhaps, the loss of life. the way that we would have even a year ago. this new normal here is something that bothers me. >> but you also try to find a balance of not letting it affect your life so much that you are paralyzed by fear, and i think that is what people are trying to find that very fine line. >> absolutely. >> california bracing for a trump presidency. listen to this, by hiring former attorney general eric holder. the role he will play in fighting the incoming administration, and what that could mean for the entire country. that's next. a heart attack doesn't care what you eat
attorney general eric holder as an ally for potential battles against the incoming trump administration. lawmakers announcing they have hired holder, along with numbers of his private firm, as an outside counsel for the state. california's assembly speaker with this statement. "while we don't next yet know the harmful proposals in x-men administration will pull forward, thanks to donald trump's campaign, cabinet appointment, and twitter feed, we do have an idea what we will be dealing with. this team will be an important resource as we work with the governor and attorney general to protect californians." and protection might include illegal immigrants. many sanctuary cities and counties in california vowing not to cooperate with possible deportation plans under a trump presidency. they have been gearing up for this, we have been hearing this type of talk from leaders in california since donald trump was elected president, bill hemmer. >> bill: boy, talk about partisan with a capital p. we are really coming to an era where it's going to get more
intense. the dnc has hired john nothing or come a long time operative, who is now now "the washington post" writes about the spirit he will be joined by two clinton veterans and outspent the campaign focused on trump, researching his background, monitoring his statements, and trying to drive negative media coverage of his candidacy. already this is happening. and we are 15 days away from the inauguration. buckle up. >> they are gearing up for a fight, kennedy. >> kennedy: having lived in california for the better part of 25 years, i will tell you it's not just democrats that live there. there are a lot of independence in that state, and they are certainly underserviced by the state legislature. and by the governor and attorney general. and what they are doing, this is completely politicized. what about looking out for the good things that might happen as a result of a more competitive business environment? what about the companies who fight the good fight not just with federal regulations, but with high stake, corporate taxes?
a lot of state regulations in california, as well. and they still slog it out. and god bless them for doing that could work. and you know, why not talk about some of the good things that might happen as a result of this? >> bill: i think the bigger point is that the dnc is setting up a war room to take on donald trump. i don't know when the last time that happened. ever? >> let me push back on that, bill. because i would say that is the reason that the dnc and any of these political fundraising organizations exist. in a way i want to push back against all of you and say, this is not news. this is the way the political system works. if you don't like it, that is understandable. >> bill: this is how it's written in "the washington post." trying to drive negative media coverage of his candidacy. [cross talk] >> from a p.r. perspective, did you not see the ads during the campaign? of course there is a worm of people thinking about how to describe the opponent in the negative way. >> let's talk about some of the areas that will be areas of concern. >> this is the state of
california! >> immigration is going to be a key, and climate change is going to be a key, because a look at this as a man who, during his campaign, called climate change and some other words a hoax. i guess, didn't we learn from the democratic party that they knew that they had friendly people in the media who they could put messaging out? to me, this is just an extension of that, that they are going to now from a position of legality with an attorney in eric holder, go after those topics and those people that they don't like. >> doesn't trump have friendly voices on the media that he can call on the side and have interviews with? >> bill: every morning of this week around 7:30 a.m. there is a stream of twitter feeds that comes from the president-elect. and those twitter feeds are driving the news content of the day across the cable landscape, across -- >> is a good? >> it's different. >> so you feel the democrats feel left out and they have to raise their game?
>> i think that's all the democrats have at this point and they are not doing a thorough self-examination. we hear about all these issues because it is politicized here, is politicized with obamacare, when you hear about the people? and doing what is best for the people of california. >> bill: for now you are correct, that might be the only power they have. >> by the way, you have a governor there that is concerned about his legacy, because he is concerned about climate change being part of his legacy. >> if they are so concerned about climate change, one of the utilities in california says that they are going to switch as much as they can to solar because it's clean. and your utility bills are going to go up 56% bridwell, that is really looking out for the little guy. >> we've got the scientists, we got the lawyers, and we are ready to fight. >> that is a bottom line. >> moved to texas. >> two weeks from tomorrow, donald trump will become the country's 45th president, but some big-name liberals liberties are having a hard time letting go. so much so they are putting on a big shindig at the exact same time as the inauguration.
grapes at their sour wrist? sour grapes, we debate that. ♪
♪ >> in exactly two weeks from tomorrow, president-elect donald trump will be inaugurated and at that very moment competing for attention will be a celebrity-filled loveathon. that's going to air on facebook live. think of it as a jerry lewis-style telethon for the digital age. celebrities participating include jamie lee curtis, and her husband, christopher guest. along with jane fonda, tim robbins, patricia arquette, and john abbott out. it is part of an effort to raise at least $500,000 for the aclu of southern california, planned parenthood, and earth justice. >> can i say something about the guy who created this? he's 23 years old, alex godin, and he did this he says the day after election day. "i woke up like a lot of americans feeling pretty crabby. on november 10th. i looked for an opportunity to do something. "he is an entrepreneur who sold
his company, dispatch, to meetup.com. the election was november 8th, he woke up november 10th. [laughter] >> where does he live? what state? is marijuana legalized in that state? >> now, now. >> may be live here in new york city. i don't know. but it took them two days to get up from election night. and he woke up feeling " "pretty crappy" ." >> bill: owner home to people watch that facebook live. >> i'm going to watch to see chris for guest, i love him. he's so hilarious, he's the best. >> bill: i plan on being there, and i love them, they are great. you never forget them. these are wonderful and historical american moments that i cherish. and i can't wait. >> but how can you pass up a lovefest? >> bill: i remember after the george bush-al gore deal in
2000, it was a long, rainy weekend here in washington, d.c. i remember the democracy speech four years later at the start of the second term, a cold, cold day in washington, d.c. i remember standing next to an african-american man from louisiana with a paperthin purple jacket on window barack obama was sworn in, and tears streaming down his face to see an african-american president be sworn in. it was a moment. i remember watching joe biden run up pennsylvania avenue in 2013. so who knows what will happen this time around, but it will be something we will never forget. >> that was lsu purple, you know. >> bill: you are exactly right, go tigers. >> they are going to have to do better than jamie lee curtis, aren't they? >> they've got jane fonda going as well. >> is she wearing her helmet, is she bringing that, to? from the good old days. >> it appears to be a little tone-deaf after the story we did yesterday, the commercial advertisement that they put out
speaking out against donald trump. >> i just wonder what else they have to be doing. beagle rather than watch the lovefest, people should just rent "best in show" on netflix, that is one of christopher guest's movies but he is so funny. >> "a mighty wind" is also funn funny. >> and try to think of all the titles now. and that was a free promo. >> bill: or you can just wait for two days, right harris? >> harris: i think that the dude who created this, i just laugh. i woke up the next day and it's two days later. who gives up their career to sign on to this? >> i don't know, but they should all just shut their pie holes and focus their energy and creative pursuits that many people can enjoy. because when you make good movies and when you make funny shows and great music, it doesn't matter your political stripe, you can enjoy that. but when you do this you alienate at least half of the country. just write a check and get a buddy to shut up. >> you think of any people will
watch on facebook live? >> >> no, but it's love. how can you question love? >> we are very close, we are tight like that. more "outnumbered" in just a moment, please stick around. liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. my insurance company definitely doesn't have that... you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance
committed to replacing obamacare the same day it is repealed? >> cnn newsroom starts now. hello again. thank you for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. we have distressing new video from inside that ft. lauderdale airport. showing when the gunman opens fire in the baggage area. this video is difficult to watch. it is crucial in understanding the context of this shooting. this is a freeze frame, now, of what appears to be security camera footage, obtained by tmz. the man in the blue shirt is believed to be accused gunman, esteban santiago. we will play the video one time throughout this hour. it is silent. and it is security footage. and it is disturbing. pay attention to the left side of your screen, where the man in the blue shirt enters the frame.
he is due in court. he is facing serious charges. all of them eligible for the death penalty, fred. >> boris sanchez. at ft. lauderdale airport. i want to bring in matthew haras and paul shmek. good to see you. your reaction to the video? >> i think to understand it, we have to two back to november 1st, 2013, when a gunman walked into l.a.x. terminal three, opened fire, proceeded through the checkpoint and got into the sterile area of the airport, which is not a good situation, because there's so much access at that point. law enforcement took some time to get on the scene. what we can see from the video, is baggage claim area is typically a very safe area. people come and go. people in that area, are typically happy. they just got off a safe flight. family and friends are there to welcome them.
there are also shuttle buses and things of that nature in this area. it's difficult because of that 2013 incident, law enforcement, from the tsa, and public reports, was really putting pressure on law enforcement to put their resources at the checkpoint. and i think it's a perfect example where a vulnerability was identified that police can't be everywhere. >> matthew, how do you evaluate what we've seen. >> we deal with the reality of the condition. he shows a disregard. there's no regard for humanity. clearly, mental health. but nonetheless, cold and calculating. >> but it's confusing, too, because we don't see what precedes the imagery we saw. just the first couple of frames blending in. just seem leg to be like everybody else.
>> paul, what do you see in terms of the vulnerabilities, that may be magnified as a result of this? >> the tsa has 20 layers of aviation security. it's from canines to protection. there's two layers that come to mind when i review that cctv or surveillance footage. he was on a death march, really. and what we have to look at, there's two layers that come to mind when i think about this. there's the intelligence layer, what did we know before he came to the airport? and the no-fly list, much more in depth where you would prevent him from flying. intelligence has a ceiling on what they can do in terms of stopping individuals like that from flying. and i'm sure as the days roll out, we'll hear more about what was known before he embarked on an airport. >> earlier, i spoke with the broward county sheriff, this is how he sees precautions to be
tragedy often times to promulgate change. hopefully we see hard-core change here. something to change. >> thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. we're also learning more about esteban santiago's past. assault charges involving a girlfriend, hearing voices in his head. and asking for help. dan simon traveled to santiagoss town in anchorage to learn more about his past. >> reporter: his troubles began after serving time in iraq, relatives say. esteban santiago spent ten months in the war-torn country. his brother said the changes in him were apparent. >> translator: they had him hospitalized for four days. and then, they let him go. how are you going to let someone leave a psychological center after four days when he's saying he's hearing voices. that the cia is telling him to
to shoot someone. >> reporter: despite the interaction with santiago, he was not placed on a no-fly list. >> there had been concerns raised why he was not placed on a no-fly list. i want to be clear, during our initial investigation, we found no ties to terrorism. he broke no laws when he came into our office, making disjointed comments about mind control. >> reporter: why would someone who is disturbed get his gun back? the u.s. attorney in alaska says there's no legal basis to prevent him from having it. a judge would have needed to declare him mentally defective to deny him his second amendment rights. we're learning new details about the victims in the ft. lauderdale airport. most were on vacation. michael oehme of council bluffs, iowa, was about to go on a cruise with his wife. e was killed when the shots rang
out in the area. his wife was shot in the shoulder and is expected to recover. he leaves behind one adulter. olga woltering, was also about to go on the cruise with her husband, ralph. according to wxia. the couple is from marietta, georgia, and had planned the trip to celebrate her husband's 90th birthday. he was not injured in the shooting. the wolterings were married for 64 years. and terry andres was a shipyard employ, in ft. lauderdale on vacation with his wife. the couple was celebrating andres' upcoming 63rd birthday, a friend tells cnn. an trace and his wife had been married for 40 years. he leaves behind two daughters. three other people injured in the shooting are in critical condition. we'll be right back.
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credit karma. give yourself some credit. in jerusalem, a horrific scene when a truck rams through israeli soldiers standing together after getting off of a bus. three cadets s s a and one offi was killed. the attacker may have been an isis sympathizer. the attack was caught on video. and a word of caution. the video is disturbing. the driver, not only plowing into the group of soldiers, he turned his truck around and then appeared to drive over some of the victims. israeli officials say it was over when the driver was killed. orrin lieberman is in jerusalem. how can you tell us about how the authorities are assessing this? >> reporter: this goes on to who
knew this was taking place? in addition to -- i should say, police have made nine arrests, as part of the investigation. five are family members of the attacker, as you said, was shot and killed at the scene. i'll walk you back through what happened. about 1:30 p.m. local time. right along the walkway a particular walkway, not only for security forces and soldiers, but for pedestrians and tourists because it as a beautiful view of old city of jerusalem. a number of soldiers had gotten off of the bus as a tour, and that's when the attack happened. the truck driver drove straight for a group of soldiers getting off of the bus. and then, it seems he reverses his truck and drives back over some of the soldiers there. the horrible outcome is that four were killed. three women and one man. and a number of others were injured, all in their 20s. benjamin netanyahu who visited the scene and said, what they
know fromty a tacker, us was from a nearby neighborhood, that the attacker was a supporter of isis. we hear from the police spokes pen pern saying there was no isis cells in jerusalem. but it points to a lone wolf attack. and that is what security forces are trying to pinpoint and figure out how to prevent from now on. how do you stop this attack from happening again? it's a struggle for forces here and in yurm, in particular. that's the focus as they try to figure out, was there advance notice? could they have prevented this one to better prevent the next one? >> are authorities revealing anything more about why they believe he was a supporter of isis? what's the impetus for that statement? >> reporter: little information about that. it was a statement from
netanyahu when he said he was a supporter of isis. it surprised us because you don't hear about isis in israel, jerusalem or the west bank. as police pointed out, isis doesn't have a foothold here. it's not something you hear about. israel has quietly cracked down on isis supporters. people spreading propaganda or trying to fight for isis in syria. but it's not a major terrorist organization here. they don't have a foothold. and it's not something you hear about very often. and that's why we need to keep in mind the police spokesperson, when he said this is not new rye sis terrorist cell. there are none of those. and it's critical as they try to prevent the next from happening. turning a truck into a weapon is something we saw in berlin and niece, as well. devastating effect in all three incidents. coming up, the gop vows to repeal obamacare. president barack obama says if they have a better alternative, he would support it. can republicans come up with a
cheaper and more effective plan? cheaper and more effective plan? we'll discuss, next. i discovered a woman my family tree, named marianne gaspard. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. ancestry really helped me fill in a lot of details.
parenthood. president obama says if republicans have a better plan, he's for repealing and replacing it. >> it is true, theoretically, all of the progress can be undone and suddenly 20 million people are or more tonight have health insurance. but as i think republicans now are recognizing, that may not be what the american people, including everyone trump voters, are looking for. and my hope is that the president-elect, members of congress from both parties, look at where have we objectively made progress, where things are working better? don't undo things just because i did them. >> joining me now is tammy lubey. would it be able to take advantage of obamacare and take care of costs with a repeal?
>> it will be difficult. health care is expensive for everyone. obamacare has provisions that are intertwined, aimed at reducing the costs of health care in general. but republicans want to change the plans and give tax credits. but it remains to be seen how generous they make the new plan. >> the approach of repeal first, replace later, could bleed the health care system that all of us depend on. quoting him. what would happen to the economy if republicans do repeal obamacare without a plan to replace it? obamacare sends money to insurers and states. and this trickles down to hospitals and other providers. that trickles down to hospital workers and vendors and other people. there was a recent study that said, if key provisions of
obamacare were repealed, 3 million could lose jobs. state and local governments can lose billions in taxes. health care is an important engine in our country. >> what you're underscoring, it's not just the people on the plan. but a lot of people who would -- who are either directly or indirectly involved in the plan? >> yeah. a lot of people think that obama care is only for people on the exchanges or people who are getting coverage through medicate expansion. a lot of people don't realize it has many tentacles. it made some revisions to medicare. used to have the doughnut hole, where seniors had to pay for prescriptions. seniors will pay less for prescriptions. now, everyone can get prescription -- everyone can get contraceptives for free and mammograms on the employer plan.
people on the job have benefits, if they have cancer or hit by a car, insurance is not going to set a limit as much it will pay for the care. it's quite wide ranging. >> tami, thank you very much. next, a top aide for donald trump speaks out about russia's hacking of the u.s. election and its impact on the vote. plus, the red carpet is rolled out and ready for the golden globe awards. a live report from hollywood coming up. your insurance company
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election. she spoke to jake tapper this morning and would not criticize vladimir putin. even after president-elect trump received a briefing from top intelligence officials, outlining the case for russian hacking. >> as he been persuaded that they carried out cyber campaign against hillary clinton and what is he prepared to do about it? >> he makes clear that russia, china and others, have attempted to attack businesses and organizations and others over time. he mentions the democratic national committee. that's why we're having this conversation. i don't want any of your viewers to be misled thinking that the kremlin and the republican party -- that they had -- the kremlin was dealing with any of the hackers and bringing that information back to moscow and somehow that anybody who
allegedly attempted to influence our elections actually did. if you read the full report, they make very clear. mr. clapper in his testimony made clear on thursday, under oath, that any attempt, any aspiration to influence our elections failed. they were not successful in doing that. it is a very important point. we are talking about this because we had embarrassing leaks from the dnc e-mails. there were no fireworks because there was no firewall. rnc, there was an attempted hack on the rnc. but they had the sufficient firewalls in place. cnn's own reporting showed that the fbi asked the dnc to have access to its information, to its server and to the information. and the dnc refused to turn that over, according to cnn's report. >> this highlights the fractious relationship between russia and the u.s. president-elect trump vows to change that.
jill dougherty explains what that could mean. >> reporter: donald trump has been tweeting about improving the relationship between the united states and russia. and together, solving a lot of the big challenges, the big problems that the world encounters. that, of course, is music to vladimir putin's ears because he has been saying all along, he wants the u.s. and russia to work together on things like fighting terrorism. but when you get down to the specifics, that's where the rubber hits the road. and it becomes more difficult. after all, previous u.s. presidents had said much the same thing. here's one example. the iranian nuclear deal. the united states and russia helped to negotiate that agreement. and both countries support it. but donald trump does not. does that put him in opposition to vladimir putin? it would appear that it does. unless he changes his mind. these are some of the details that make that relationship much
more complicated. essentially, vladimir putin has defined what he believes are the interests of russia. and donald trump will have to do the same. what he believes are the priorities and the best interest for the united states. the question will be, will those interests align? jill dougherty, moscow. >> thanks so much, jill. confirmation hearings for president-elect trump's cabinet pick, that begins this week. and also this week, trump holds his long-awaited press conference. we'll discuss, next. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. my psoriatic arthritis caused joint pain. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra... can be a sign of existing joint damage...
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all right. a red flag being raised about the schedule of the confirmation hearings of president-elect donald trump's cabinet picks. those hearings are set to start this week. but the independent office of government ethics said several nominees have not been properly vetted. that's causing concerns among top democrats who say the rush to confirm is, quote, unprecedented. joining me to discuss this and other aspects of the trump transition, is cnn contributor, sale sale salena zito. also with me, errol lewis, ooh commentator for spectrum news. good to see you, as well. salena, you first.
chuck schumer has accused the transition team to colluding through these hearings. is there any evidence to back that up? >> not that i know of. in 2009, when president obama took office, i believe -- i think i'm correct on this, on the same day he was sworn in, the day of his inauguration, seven of his cabinet members were sworn in. mcconnell and everyone else didn't like that. there was some moving around. the process is swift and you know, went pretty well. president-elect trump has, i believe, eight that are up for confirmation process. part of the challenge with trump's picks are that they are outside of the washington, you know, sort of set. right? so, they're outsiders. they have more complicated finances. and you know, they have more complicated entanglements,
financial entanglements. but i suspect at the end of the day, this is all of these nominees are probably going to go through. mainly because they have the votes. >> potentially nominees have potential conflicts. that's why some on the hill have concerns. we understand that, you know, there are some nominees who are in question in terms of whether all of the paperwork has been filed. there's conflicting reports about this, by the way. john kelly, for dhs, betsy roth for the information of the ethics office to move forward on the confirmation hearings? >> it's a process. it's not just filling out a piece of paper and disclosing it to the senate.
the idea is to have a process where people learn things about their own finances, their own conflicts of interest that they might not have known before. famously, there are nominees that discovered they had a quote/unquote nanny problem. and it was only through the vetting process they realized that somebody they had been paying to work in their home had supplied them with a fake social security number. that's what happened to bernie carrick when he was nominated for homeland security. you have a process that's supposed to, according to mitch mcconnell himself, by the way, in the past. he said, you should not schedule the hearing until the information has been given to the office of government ethics, has been delivered to the senate and that the senators have had a chance to look through it. that's what the process is supposed to be about. not simply, you know, voting for them just because it's inauguration day. >> if that's true, according to the senate democratic source that some of the people have not filed the proper paperwork, then, salena, you know, how
unusual would it be if the democrats were to do this or there were some movement to say, let's delay some of the hearings or confirmation for some of the candidates until after inauguration? >> right. well, you know, the republicans hair would catch on fire if that would happen. and it was a democratic cabinet nominee. the ethics office is saying one thing. the transition team is saying another the we'll find out on inauguration day. i do know they are really preparing a lot of these cabinet nominees for some intense, you know, grueling questions, on the hill. these are people that have never, ever had their lives peeled back in the way that they do in these senate confirmation hearings. i know they are getting prepared. but you know, we are dealing
with a different kind of cabinet. and it's going to be, probably, a different kind of process. >> meantime, errol, there's been many delays. there was a mid-december late. and the latest date is wednesday. and it happens to be the second day of the confirmation hearings. will there be a conflict here? >> we'll see. you know, we're talking about five months now. this is almost clintonesque if you go back to the last real press conference. i hope it would be a true press conference or not a gaggle or swift questions followed by departure. we have to hope it is not intended as a distraction, a bait and switch, where something is thrown out to grab headlines, while the real action is on capitol hill, where the cabinet nominees are being questioned. the transition team, you know,
to their credit, they've acknowledged they're doing more work faster than they planned to because they didn't think they were going to win on november 8th. now that they are sort of the team that has to kind of put together a government, they have a backlog of questions. and every day they refuse to answer questions or to hold a press conference, i think the backlog got bigger and bigger. i hope that the reporters get a chance to throw out questions during this press conference. do a good and efficient job of getting to the heart of many, many of the conflict of interest questions and others that have been brewing for five months. >> and questions about conflicts within his own family. having family members working for him with the business dealings, et cetera. and then, the tax returns. donald trump promising that after elected he would reveal those. so, i'm sure he will be pepper ld with a lot of questions along those lines from reporters. salena, errol, thank you very
much. coming up, one of trump's national security picks facing questions over plagiarism. kay file broke this story. we have details, next. family road trip! fun! check engine. not fun! but, you've got hum. that's like driving with this guy. all you do is press this, and in plain english, "coolant", you'll know what's wrong. if you do need a mechanic, just press this. "thank you for calling hum." and if you really need help, help can find you, automatically, 24/7. because you put this, in here.
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president-elect's cab me picks, monica crowley has been picked for the detector of national communications. in her book what the bleep just happened found dozens of examples of plagiarism. that is almost identical -- senior editor of cnn's k-file andrew kaczynski. how many of incidents are we talking about of plagiarism? >> this is 60 incidents of plagiarism. it includes wikipedia, a lot of times we saw monica crowley taking, basically wholesale this work of other columnists,
changes words, changing the tenses from have to has. and even throwing on some of the same conclusions of these people in their columns just in slightly different words. >> how did you find this when her publishers did not? >> a lot of the cases that she said existed in the stimulus were very obviously copied. something interesting we found was this big listing of things that were very outrageous that existed in the stimulus package were not listed in the stimulus package at all. when we went look for where these came from, a podiatrist, of all people dating back to 2004. basically the first example about tattoo removal was an example of the stimulus and the
other 20 were from this podiatrist's website. so some. >> so some of the inaccuracies were red flags, have you heard from the trump team about this? >> the trump transition standing by crowley, they have basically said our article is a politically motivated attack. they actually cited this body of work as part of the reason for why she was hired saying, you know, this was her manifesto for taking back america. the publisher has oddly not issued any statement or responded to any of our e mail ors phone calls requesting comment and crowley herself has not responded either. >> and then we have several instances of plagiarism,
including melania trump's convention speech. >> basically we have melania, e were a lot of people that have written a lot of words, for all we know, there could be a lot of examples like reporters and people like us are going to be looking into. >> andrew kaczynski, thank you very much. for more on andrew's article about crowley's credibility you'll find on cnn.com. we're back in a moment. with lubriderm. absorbs in seconds. moisturizes for hours. lubriderm. every body care.
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thank you, because it rained yesterday here in los angeles, and it's supposed to rain tomorrow, so it's actually quite warm. but right now they're getting, everyone is preparing, people are looking around us, people are taking their pictures, because we can still stand on the red carpet right now until celebrities get here. people are lining up, the fans are in the stands, a lot of people are hoping to see their biggest stars, and i don't know how many of these movies and shows you have seen, this is the biggest party of the awards show because folks get to eat and drink while they are there, watching the show, while the program is going on, and also the golden globes looks to offer the best of television and film, so it looks to see the hollywood foreign press, they are saying are the shows of 2016, that's what makes this one a little bit different than the other ones, a lot are talking about two movies in particular, la la land, and
the same story from the drama side is moonlight. it also has a lot of nominations so people waiting to see how they do and how maybe moonlight measures up to manchester by the sea, which a lot of people are talking about those performances as well. a lot of people are getting in place, looking around. hairstyles should be okay. >> it's all about the hair and yours looks fabulous, i love it. i have seen nothing, so all those movies you have mentioned, i know them by titles, but maybe afterwards. it's been a busy year. >> it's hard especially when you're working and have kids, it's hard to go. >> lots of fun, we'll be watching this evening. the next hour of the cnn newsroom, begins right now.
leaders in congress, are to pretend didn't happen. is that just mitch mcconnell's nature? what has to happen for something to get done? tell me what you saw when you watched the press conference today. >> reporter: well, mitch mcconnell knows when you're the leader, a party in the senate, you'll take shots. that's part of the job, a guy who takes incoming fire and allows your caucus to get things done. the two men appearing side-by-side today was politically smart or at least acknowledgement of political reality. their goals in most cases are the same and desperately need each other to get any of them done. on tax reform, they cannot have the same problems they had on health care. if they're sniping back and forth at each other day after day it's gawk to be that much more difficult to get done. you heard some of that today. the president praising mitch mcconnell. saying he's the guy to get it done on all of these issues and put a bunch of additional issues on mitch mcconnell's plate now
this is a trump program. what we always wanted where does this go from here? joined by a frequent guest of the show, a senior editor at large at breitbart. joel good to see pup thank you for being with us again. i want to play for you what the president said at the press conference about steve bannon, and changing his mind. let's listen together. >> we'll have a very good relationship, as you know, with steve bannon. steve's been a friend of mine a long time. i like steve a lot. steve is doing what steve thinks is the right thing. some of the people he may be looking at i'll see if we talk him out of that. >> joel what do you make of what the president said? i'm going to try and talk him out of that? >> well, i think he knows he's going to have a hard time doing so. i think that trump wants steve bannon's program to succeed. i think he wants to see republicans elected to the senate in 2018 who are going to support his agenda. at the same time, that's still a long way off, and he has to work with mitch mcconnell.
do something and then fails. in the british parliamentary system. >> you resign. >> reporter: you resign. >> if it's a budgetary matter. >> reporter: right. mitch mcconnell said he would pass obamacare. didn't do it. the country's fate doesn't rest on the pennell political career of mitch mcconnell, and i think this is principle i've applied in other cases as well. said john boehner should resign when the house, his own caucus rejected his plan. when you lose in that setting and can't unify your party behind you you need to let somebody else lead that appeared. steve bannon is coming at this situation as a non-politician. he's not an elected official. but what he's doing isn't so unusual in the sense that there are campaigns to provide alternative leadership for parties that fail to deliver on their promises to their voters. >> what do you make of what mcconnell said standing next to trump when he said, we have to nominate people who can win. who can win, because -- so that
the republicans actually maintain their majorities in both houses? >> reporter: well, mitch mcconnell pointed out a number of examples. >> yeah but but in some cases the incumbents unseated by the tea party in 2010 and 2012 couldn't win either. look at richard lugar in indiana, basically didn't live there anymore. many other examples as well where the public in general, not just republican voters said we've had enough of these incumbent politicians. jo think it's up to mitch mcconnell to decide who can win and who can't. i don't think the senate leadership have done a very good job. krist would have been the nominee instead of marco rubio in florida. you can find many they picked losers. i think steve's task is to find candidates who can win as well, but candidates who will stick to the program not just trump's program but really the broader conservative movement's program.
the promises made to voters since 2010. >> what does that look like? i get the frustration with establishments. the democrats have a similar issue they faced in the primaries leading up to the election. what does it look like? what does success look like to bannon to breitbart, if these establishment candidates go away? what are we looking at a year from now heading into is a mid-term election with a number of new candidates both at the congressional level at the senate level? >> reporter: here's the irony. you have have one of the most establishment figures around, lindsey graham, saying essentially the same at steve bannon. when it comes down to practical details what mitch mcconnell has to do to keep his job is deliver on his promises. what steve bannon wants is to replace, do nothing senators with senators who will help the republican party keep its promises. all focused on results. if the republican party can deliver on promises made for six to eight years things stay relatively stable. if the party establishment fails
mcconnell is out and many feel he should have resigned already. they get to into the mid-terms way record of accomplishments, they need to. >> what graham said about the republican party. let's play it. >> if we don't cut taxes and we don't eventually repeal and replace obamacare, then we're going to lose across the board in the house in 2018, and all of my colleagues running in primaries in 2018 are probably going to get beat. the end of mitch mcconnell as we know it. >> to your point, making the same point steve bannon is making, however, the problem. started with let's cut taxes. there are a number of people, particularly the tea party republicans, the freedom caucus, who like the idea of cutting taxes. what they didn't know is that this was going to come with a potential deficit increase. the white house keeps saying something like dynamic scoring, stimulate the company and greater economic growth as a result and that stuff. in the end, fiscal conservatives, to them, a bit of an anathema. >> reporter: interesting, look at the record of the tea party and freedom caucus and
conservatives who have been elected over the last several years. when push came to shove they always voted yes. always compromised, going all the way back to the big budget debt ceiling fight of 2011 that ended in the budget control act. conservatives, tea party members voted for that. now the problem in the republican party particularly in the senate are the moderates and maverick whose historically may have been a bridge between the two parties particularly when republican was in the minority but seem unwilling to govern as long as trump is the head of the republican party. these moderates need to be brout onboard or defeated at the next election if they can't play with the team, get with the program, there needs to be something done at the ballot box. trump wants to see if he can do it before then and bannon wants to do it in the long run. you need an emphasis, thinking like trump is, on both the short term and long term. got to work with the establishment to get things done now but in the long term see a turnover, republicans move in this direction. >> so with trump today talking about how great friends he is with everybody, basically, but
today talking about steve bannon, and how long they've known each other and this stuff, "vanity fair" had a piece out with two interesting bannon quotes including talking about the fact that the president only has a 30% chance of making it to a full term. bannon has told people he thinks donald trump has a 30% chance of making it the full term. what do you think of that? >> reporter: i don't know the context in in steve made the remark. broader point, this presidency is fragile in that it has a narrow base of support. the base is loyal and that base has moved mountains. it's shocked pollsters and pundits over and over, but trump has to stay loyal to that base to stay in office and be effective in office. i think that's steve's point. that the base that trump brought to the polls on november 8, 2016, has certain requirements. wants him to succeed in fulfilling his pledges and if he goes looking for support among democrats he's not going to find
muf much, or the gop establishment. got to stay faithful to the base. >> and isn't that fundamentally problematic? to acknowledge the fact the base is narrow. not even half the electorate and that the president should continue to cater to that base rather than say, hey, i can -- there could be a much bigger base if i change my political positions? >> reporter: i'll spill a secret about steve bannon. his model in terms of thinking about this is barack obama. the barack obama model of being re-elected was to focus on his base, do things that pleased his base. didn't do what bill clinton did, moving towards the center after moving in the mid-terms. barack obama doubled down, went for what his base wanted and in doing that made sure they turned out and they turned out in states he needed them to. this is bakely the trump and bannon model. focus on delivering to your base. bring them out to the polls again, you can bring in enough other people to win where you need to. that's the barack obama model. you might say maybe we shouldn't
have that, go back to bill clinton-style politics where politician -- fighting for fundamental values. so they're going to be trying to do whatever they can to bring their base of voters to the polls. >> joel, good to talk to you. thanks for being with us. breitbart senior editor at large. new revelations in the unfolding harvey weinstein story. nbc news learns the new york police department is investigating two credible allegations of sexual assault against the former hollywood mogul per a senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of these matters. the allegations are different from those stemming from a 20-year -- sorry, 2015 nypd investigation ultimately not prosecuted ostensibly due to a lack of evidence. more than 40 women accused him of harassment at this time. any allegations of non-con sensetural sex are denied by mr.
weinstein we should share. and rick pitino from the university of louisville formerly fired today. three weeks since the school was charged with bribery. 16 seasons with the school. the university's athletic director remains on paid leave. up next, how president trump's move to eliminate cost sharing benefits for insurers might result? an unwelcome spike in your health care premiums. is sparking innovation. you see it in the southern tier with companies that are developing powerful batteries that make everything from cell phones to rail cars more efficient. which helps improve every aspect of advanced rail technology. all with support from a highly-educated workforce and vocational job training. across new york state, we're building the new new york. to grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd.ny.gov.
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the health care as you know is moving along. knocked out the csrs, a subsidies to the insurance companies. could almost go agency a payoff and it's a disgrace and that money goes to the insurance companies. we want to take care of poor people. we want to take care of people that need help, with health care. >> that sounds really logical. that was president trump this afternoon on his decision to end key obamacare subsidies called csrs over the weekend. and the president tweeted, health insurance stocks gone through the roof during the obama era. these cost-sharing reductions are government subsidies.
government takes money, reimburses insurance companies for the cost of providing discounted insurance to low-income americans. okay? so the insurance companies offer insurance at a discount to low-income americans. they get less money and the government makes back that money. ending the subsidiesubsidies, n mandate providing insurance, the companies have to recoup that lost revenue meaning increased premiums. middle class families with insurance through the affordable care act likely hit the hardest. a family of four seeing premiums increase significantly despite what you might hear from politicians. a kizer famiaiser family founda anticipates the rates to rise an average of 19% diggs to the already baked in increases that were going to be there. i bring in a senior vice president for special initiatives at the kaiser family
foundation and a senior adviser to the president of the foundation. larry good to have you here. this is an interesting one, because the president is not wrong in everything he says about the cost sharing reductions. they were, in fact, designed to ease the transition -- to allow the insurance companies to participate in these marketplaces by giving them something of a cushion. so on that he's not wrong, but where he says this is going to provide relief by doing this, there he is wrong. >> yeah. i mean, you know, insurance companies have to provide this discounted insurance, lower deductibles to low income enrollees an the payments were reimbursing insurance company for the added cost of doing that. weren't a payoff or a bailout. just reimbursement for costs that the insurance companies were incurring. now, the result of it is, this is intended to be sabotage, it's imperfect, because the insurance companies will still offer coverage, just charge higher
premiums to other people in the marketplaces and off the marketplaces to do it. >> so the president talks about this resulting in lower premiums. that's not true, because there are no lower premiums generally speaking anywhere on the horizon unless you're in alaska. generally speaking, a family, this family, middle class family that is expected to see a rise in premiums, what are their alternatives? either pay the higher premium or switch to a lower tier of insurance? >> right. this is -- as we've heard, everything with health care is complicated and this is certainly no exception. so people who, low income people getting subsidies are protected. they're protected by the cost sharing reductions lower deductibles and premiums. any hike in premiums low income people are covered. middle income people, enrolled in what's known as a silver plan. a mid-level plan thshgs e could see premiums go up but have gold plans available, bronze plans available. so there may be disruption, but
ways they can avoid this premium increa increase. the important thing is optics of this. we'll hear about really big premium increases as open enrollment starts in a couple weeks. the primary reason for the big premium increases is the termination of payments that the president did last week. >> why is it, if the president, the executive's determining payments, made to these insurance companies, for these cost sharing reductions, why is it that the estimate is that this is going to increase the deficit over ten years? >> yes. in fact, that gets trickier. so there are two kinds of subsidies here. one the lower duct bibles low income people get and other lower premiums low income people get and these premiums subsidies are tied to midlevel silver plans. silver plans go up, subsidies to low income people go up as well. the federal government takes money out of one pocket, but
putting money in one pocket but taking it out of the other pocket. >> larry, good to talk to you. thanks for jumping in to clear up the very complex issues. the vice president for special initiatives and senior adviser to the president of the kaiser family foundation upon whom we reply heavily for research into health care cost. coming up, fire crews are finally gaining ground on the deadly wildfires incinerating northern california with wind conditions improving. some residents getting all-clear to head back home. plus, devastation in puerto rico. residents there struggling to find clean drinking water. many of now drinking contaminated water. when asked about the dire situation on the island, the president said, there's plenty of water. >> we have massive amounts of food, but they have to distribute the food and they have to do this. they have to distribute the food to the people of the island. so what we've done is, we now actually have military distributing food. something that's really, they shouldn't have to be doing. ♪
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wildfires in californian history. officials lifted some mandatory evacuation orders overnight dropping the number of people affected from about 100,000 to just under 75,000, but these fires are still extremely dangerous. they've killed 41 people. the most recent, a fire truck driver who died when his water transport truck flipped. at least 16 wildfires across the state are still burning but we're seeing some progress in wine country. the atlas fire in napa county is now 68% contained. the tubbs fire also in napa county is 70% contained. and the nuns fire is 50% contained. the people who survived the fires have harrowing stories, however. >> i ran out to my car. i looked up -- to the west. i saw this wall of flame come over the hill. i jumped in my car. some neighbors across the valley from me saw me drive down and
the flames overtook the entire house. it was that close. >> nearly 11,000 firefighters are working together to contain the wildfires in california. many of them are working to save other people's houses despite having lost their own homes to the flames and one of those is teri sanders. here is a picture of him with his 11-year-old son in front of their neighbor's burned out home. it was brought down by the same wildfire that destroyed their home. terry joins me now. terry, thank you for being with us. you were coming home from a shift, fighting the wildfires, and you approached your own home. we've got pictures of that. what went through your mind as you approached your home? >> well, just to correct -- i wasn't fighting this particular fire. i had -- come home from work, from oakland fire and i live in santa rosa. so i came home to, you know, enjoy my time off, and we knew
that there were going to be some high winds coming in that evening, and the winds were -- i mean, brutal. they were really -- whipping. 50 mile-an-hour, at a minimum. and the funny thing was my wife and i were more concerned at the time when the wind started about a doug fir behind our house and thought it might crush us. i looked up saw the glow of the fire. it's unmistakable. knowing how wind and fire work together, i ran up the street to the firehouse on the corner to see if the engine was out. and asked them if they knew about the fire. his response to me was, which fire? >> oh, wow. >> in which case i knew, okay, this is not good. went back to the house. got my wife up and told her, start packing, and get the cars loaded and get my son isaac up our bed and went back to the firehouse again and now there was a crew there all getting suited up to go.
and turns out, you know, we left prior to the evacuation order, went down the street to a parking lot. we decided to leave. before we left we went around knocking on all the doors in everyone in my neighborhood. went down it street to a lucky parking lot. that became unsafe. went to -- did all the grocery stores. went to the safeway parking lot. that became unsafe. and it's -- you know -- >> i was going to say. you're the one who keeps everybody safe. the one people turn to. the picture of your son. put it up again. that's got to be something. that you can't do anything when something is this big. it is a slow effort sow stop and contain these fires? >> yeah. as a firefighter, when you're fighting a fire that, that size, you basically with your crews are only attacking one piece of
it. >> yeah. >> you can compartmentalize. i need to stop the fire from going over here. but when you're a victim of it, and you're seeing your neighbor's home completely just devastated. it's a whole other perspective. >> terry, thanks very much. sorry for your loss but thank you for the efforts you continue to keep people safe. a santa rosa resident but oakland firefighter. the crisis in puerto rico is growing nor desperate flt aftermath of hurricane maria. huge portions of the island are waiting for basics. 15% have electricity. 60% have drinking water. the situation is so dire in areas the epa says people are cutting through fences to get to water coming from contaminated wells. one of the sites the epa issest itting to see if the water is safe to drink is located in dur wrought oh when it is on the map, identified as a polluted site last year and targeted for cleanup.
nbc's gabe gutierrez is there with more. >> reporter: ale, good afternoon. we're hour in dorado, west of san juan. a water crisis is unfolding and people are loading up on water here. folks we've talked to say it's been very difficult to find water including a mother with three children who says she comes here every day or so to find water. you see this family loading up, and this is one of the sites that has been cleared by the epa to distribute water here in dorado, the epa is testing other water wells to see if the water is safe to drink. you see this line has been filling up here for the last several hours and actually for the last several days, the mayor here says that distribution is a major problem here. now we have seen that some of the water wells in this area, people are actually breaking through the fences, ripping off the fences to gain access to that water. the epa issest itting several of those water wells to make sure the water is safe to drink. that's because an area of dorado is actually listed, last year,
as part of the u.s. super fund list. that's a list of sites that are polluted and are a priority for cleanup. the epa has said that none of the sites tested thus far have come back as contaminated but a few they're waiting for the test to come back and those are some of the sites people have been breaking into. it's an ongoing water crisis here in puerto rico. nearly 70% of the island has access to running water, but only 15% of the island actually has power, and the general in charge of the military relief effort says that that is a major problem. it's become difficult to pump and treat the water here. the governor here in puerto rico has set an ambitious goal restoring power to 95 p% of the lined by mid-december. ali, back to you. >> gabe, thanks and for staying on that story. reiterating the numbers, 15% to 16% of the island has power. you can't pump without that
power, can't charge a cell phone or have internet access. the governor talking about getting power to 90% of the island by mid-december. let's just keep those numbers in mind when talking about puerto rico. coming up, democrats are divided. our chris jansing sits down with a group of wisconsin democrats concerned their own party could blow the chance to win back control of congress in 2018. there was an old woman who lived in a shoe. she had so many children she had to buy lots of groceries. while she was shopping for organic fruits and veggies, burglars broke into her shoe. they stole her kids' mountain bikes and tablets along with her new juice press. luckily the geico insurance agency had helped her with homeowners insurance. she got full replacement on the stolen goods and started a mountain bike juice delivery service. call geico and see how affordable homeowners insurance can be.
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headline now is setting the stage for election day 2018. the most competitive midterm battles will take place in districts that the democrats hope to flip from red to blue. but to give you an idea how tricky that might be, check out this "washington post" abc news poll from july. when asked, do you think the democratic party stands for anything or just stands against donald trump, only 37% said the party stands for something. my colleague went to wisconsin to ask democratic voters about their party's struggle for identity in the first installment of a great series called "dems divided." what did they tell you? >> start with america's heartland, where a lot of the people who normally would have voted democratic voted for barack obama instead voted for donald trump. there is frustration with trump. it's growing. polls show that. but no guarantee that's going to turn into democratic votes, because the same key factor that helped donald trump get elected, that feeling by millions of americans that they were ignored
by the establishment, a lot of the dems we talked to say that's not being addressed. we sat down in racine, wisconsin with five voters fired up to oppose donald trump's policies. >> show of hands. how many of you think that democratic establishment is doing a good job right now? one tentative, and -- how many of you think the democrats could blow a real opportunity in 2018? >> i do. absolutely. >> all five of you. so what's going on that makes you feel that way? >> i think that there is a lack of understanding of what the message is, if there is one. >> i think holistically the democrats need to listen more than they speak. >> just ignoring thereason to ct to vote. >> and marching with tiki torches and the president won't say anything about it, you have to come vote for us is not
enough. they don't feel they have to work for anyone the vote. >> are you worried the party is becoming the anti-trump party? >> easy to get caught up in the voter, trump voters are this and that, but that's my family, too. those are my people that i grew up with. >> i feel instead of having a plan, putting out fires. instead of fighting for something we're resisting. and this resistance has to turn into governance so we have something to vote for instead of something to vote against. >> every day there's an attack on just were basic human right and dignity that -- should we not respond? right? we have to. but we also need to respond with, this is what we need to do instead. this is where we should be going. >> democrats are good on social issues, but what are they doing economically to help people? economics come first. roof over my head, food on the table. >> the democrats are the ones fighting for minimum wage. >> that's the problem.
trump is saying, okay, i'm going to fix this and bring back jobs. no democrat was saying that. >> it is constant fear, and the party that's tapping into that and realizes that and speaks to that isn't winning because all of these people are evil or racist or ignorant. they are speaking to base fears. give me a way out of that. we'll take the health care burden of me? a little less fear. give me a living wage. a little let fear. not a policy to make us popular because everyone wants to make $15 an hour. because you're starving if you're not. >> two things i heard there in wisconsin i've heard from democrats across the country. one, the money is too much tied up in who gets to run for office and the second thing is, they do feel in the heartland that it's about new york and los angeles and they don't really understand anymore than they did when donald trump got elected on inauguration day how they're really feeling. >> how that's changed. a fear shared between republicans and democrats. something that needs fixed no
matter your political party. thanks, chris. appreciate it. coming up a bombshell investigation reveals congress limited the drug enforcement administration's ability to crack down on drug distributors despite the opioid crisis spiraling out of control. were democrats controlling this? and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.
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it was my opinion that this made the whole crack epidemic -- look like nothing. these weren't kids slinging crack on the corner. these were professionals who were doing it. they were just drug dealers in lab coats. >> that was a former dea administrator. and a new investigative report on the opioid crisis by "the washington post" and "60 minutes." a report that takes you from shady pain clinics to multibillion-dollar drug companies to the hallowed halls of congress. it details the drug enforcement agency's effort to crack down on opioid pain killers and the hundreds of millions of pills flowing into pharmacies and pain clinics. it alleges the big money of the drug manufacturers had a chilling effect on the cases the dea pursued. also some members of congress allied with drug companies and
their lobbyists, passed a law that made it nearly impossible for the dea to stop the flow of those pills. and this all went down at the height of the opioid epidemic in 2016. when asked for a statement, the drug enforcement administration did not directly address the claims made by "the washington post," 60 minutes report but it did say the following. during the past seven years, we have removed approximately 900 registrations annually preventing reckless doctors and rogue businesses from making an already troubling problem worse. increasingly, more and more individuals are facing criminal charges. during the same time frame, our investigators initiated more than 10,000 cases and averages more than 2,000 arrests per year. we will continue fighting the opioid crisis and continue to use the tools at our disposal to combat this epidemic. joining me is scott higam, one of the investigative reporters who conducted the six-month investigation. good to see you.
thanks for being with us. the comment from the dea, the response doesn't address one of the key parts of this thing and it is not random -- just random pain clinics or even doctors but something coming from the pharmaceutical industry and their lobbyists because of the money that is made in selling pain medication in this country that has contributed to the opioid crisis. >> right. and with the dea, what they don't say in that statement is one of its most powerful weapons they used against drug distributors and manufacturers has basically been taken out of their hands by this piece of legislation. what they're also not saying is another powerful tool has been seriously weakened. we have spoken to the dea and they told us this is a bill they didn't think was necessary, that they did not want. they fought it for years. we have internal memos and e-mails and back to 2014,
successful fighting it in 2014, successful fighting it in 2015 but under unrelenting pressure from the industry and from their allies on capitol hill, they finally relented and let the bill fly. >> and let's just be clear. by pressure, we often mean money. the pharmaceutical industry for various reasons, not just because of opioids but is one of the biggest donors to elected members of congress. >> that's correct. and the dea under joe renazizi and his team of dedicated investigators was costing the industry a lot of money because they were shutting down their operations after they failed to report time and time again, suspicious orders of drugs that were going down stream from these wholesale companies to pharmacies and rogue pain clinics and the industry fought back. they were losing a lot of money and fought back by recruiting
some of the best and brightest people out of the dea's offices and also fought back by getting the law chachblg nged. >> let's listen in to the former dea agent now turned whistleblower on this topic. >> because i think that the drug industry, the manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors and chain drug stores have an influence over congress that has never been seen before. and these people came in with their influence and money and got a whole statute changed because they didn't like it. >> scott, let me just ask you this. one of the things people may have missed in this whole discussion is that there was an effort led in some part -- in large part by drugmakers to convince americans that they didn't have to suffer any pain, leading doctors to think that it's a better thing to do to prescribe more painkillers than we'd ever been prescribed before. n that has become a cultural shift in our thinking about pain
and suffering in this country. how do you change that? >> well, that's exactly right. this whole epidemic began when a couple of manufacturers, some two decades ago, had developed this drug, particularly oxycontin. this has been well documented and purdue pharma paid hundreds of millions in fines because of their false advertising on this topic. but they had said that this drug was not addictive, that it could be properly managed and was not a problem. well, that turned out to be false. a lot of people got hooked on oxycontin. when ox kontin crashed and purdue got into trouble, a lot of other manufacturers stepped in to fill the void and started manufacturing oxycodone, hydrocodonen an entire nation got hooked on this. it's been a huge problem. what we're seeing now is so many people have been dying of overdoses. 200,000 deaths from prescription
opioid overdoses alone which is, you know, that's more than three times as many people who died in the vietnam war. the entire vietnam war. and so i think doctors now are prescribing more carefully. hospitals, et cetera. it's much harder to get these prescriptions. now what you're seeing is with the scarcity of these pills on the street, a lot of people are turning to heroin and fentanyl. they can get it cheaper, more readily, and they're overdosing left and right. >> you have a growing heroin problem now. scott, thanks for your great reporting and the work "the washington post" put into this. >> thank you very much. we're going to take a break. we'll be right back. ine sales ss seems a little... strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?!
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swift action by local, state and federal investigators working in iowa in apprehending and illegal immigrant charged with first-degree murder. now justice will be served. we will never forget mollie tibbetts. and offered prayers for mollie tibbetts's molly and -- family and friends. this as john cox slams democrats for their open border policy saying, quote, close who want to abolish ice need to consider the consequences of their proposal. the mollie tibbetts case is one more tragic example of a senseless loss that should have never happened similar to kate steinle's heartbreaking death in san francisco. kate steinle was shot and killed by an illegal immigrants on a san francisco year in 2015. the gunman was acquitted of murder and manslaughter. rob: this has been a 5-week story with mollie tibbetts, 5 weeks of torture for the family
firm in this area not far away from where mollie tibbetts was last seen jogging in the heart of that town. this pig farmer becomes a person of interest in the case and that didn't pan out after that. he was let go and no longer investigated after that point. we are not sure if that shirt was mollie tibbetts's, doesn't was. august 14th investigators honing in on five different locations, some farmland they were looking at last week, a truckstop of interest, carwash and the boyfriend's home where mollie tibbetts was saying when the boyfriend was out of town, these are the points of interest and as we go along finally yesterday, august 21, '12 miles from where mollie tibbetts was last seen is where she was found
in this cornfield. her body found, that young man leading police to the body of the 20-year-old girl. jillian: thanks. donald trump slamming robert mueller's investigation is two former members of his inner circle take a big legal hit. the president's lawyer says the paul manafort and michael cohen news does not threaten the white house. griff jenkins has the latest fallout. >> reporter: not good news for the white house, two major developments, the former campaign chairman paul manafort guilty on eight counterattacks and bank fraud, carrying significant present time, the jury deadlocking on ten accounts resulting in a mistrial. 18 total counts related to the president or the campaign but then came this, the president's former personal lawyer michael cohen pleaded guilty to eight charges of tax and bank fraud and campaign finance charges stemming from hush money payments to two women alleging
of the corruption and commonality at the heart of the inner circle. manafort's sentencing is next wednesday. he faces another trial, cohen's sentencing in mid-december. rob: lots more to come. jillian: democrats claiming victory calling it the worst day of the trump presidency. rob: harvey dylan, a lawyer and california are in c committeewoman is criticizing the left for what she considers its desperation to find a criminal link between cohen and manafort and the president. >> we don't see anything about the president, about russian collusion or anything other than irregularities in his taxes and statements the banks but 0 to do with the president and undercores, wouldn't have been prosecuted, it is part of the narrative of an unfair witchhunt. a couple things in mind about michael cohen, when facing 60
years in prison and the alternative is 5 years in prison and you can get that five year deal if you say a couple things that aren't crimes are crimes and pin them on the president, the overwhelming power of the prosecutors in the situations and every situation of federal prosecution has led to this result. jillian: manafort african trial will begin in washington next month in connection to time in the trump campaign. republican congressman duncan hunter and his wife appearing tomorrow and campaign corruption charges. the california congressman and his wife margaret are accused of using $250,000 in campaign funds to pay for personal expenses in covering it up. they spend money on vacations and family travel. hunter's lawyer says the indictment is politically motivated. billionaire falls short in his
bid for governor, the republican donor got a late endorsement from donald trump that was beaten by mark gordon in the gop primary. incumbent republican senator john barajas go held off his challengers earning 65% of the vote. rob: a case that captivated the country taking a tragic turn. and illegal immigrant charged with the murder of mollie tibbetts. jillian: our next guest calls in a clear demonstration of the lawless left. nypd commissioner bernard kerrick is here next. mother...nature!
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♪ oh! oh! oh! ozempic®! ♪ (vo) ask your healthcare provider if ozempic® is right for you. [ coughs ] ♪ ♪ [ screams ] ♪ [ laughs ] ♪ whoa, whoa, whoa. your one item would be the name your price tool? it helps people save on car insurance. why wouldn't it save me? why? what would you bring? a boat. huh. jillian: welcome back. fox news alert, illegal immigrant charged with murder after the body of mollie tibbetts is found in a cornfield in iowa. rob: a man living in iowa for the past four to twee 7 years as
a migrant worker. can tougher immigration laws have prevented this killing? jillian: bernard carrots, thank you for being with us unfortunately under the circumstances. what will it take for immigration laws to change and prevent things like this? >> it has to change. we have to know who is coming into the country, where they are once they are here, once they are vetted. you let the wrong people into the country, this is the type of thing that happens. the frightening thing about this is if the democrats have their way in november or the 2020 elections they are going to open the borders, they are going to let people in like this and something else is pretty frightening for me. last night i watched a lot of
the coverage on this issue in the mainstream media other than fox, being criticized for covering this story, the story should be covered, one of the main focal points of the national news and nobody is looking at it. rob: this has become such a political issue in this country. ten years ago this was a pragmatic bipartisan fact that you can't have illegal immigration in a country. both sides agreed on it. >> forget five years ago, five years ago, president obama said you can't have people come into this country illegally stay here. got to protect the borders. president obama was saying it. rob: what changed? >> donald trump got elected and democrats hatred for this man
has given them this thing in their head, everything he says, anything he wants to do, anything he wants to do to protect this country they are against. jillian: how do we move forward as a country? >> the president has to focus on what he wants to do and that is build a wall, enhance ice, enhance border control and democrats have their way they want to eliminate ice which is completely bizarre. rob: all the leftists calling for the abolishment of ice, they probably didn't have much issue with ice doing what it did yesterday in queens which was deporting what we believe to be the last known nazi collaborator in the country, 95-year-old man who as a young man worked with the nazis, this man is deported to germany, likely face charges when he gets there.
this is immigration and customs enforcement. >> and an order by the president to get him out of the country. he is not supposed to be here. a direct order from the president and out he went. he should have been deported a long time ago. jillian: going back, a lot of people hoped after the kate steinle situation that opinions would change, minds would change on borders and immigration. do you see the mollie tibbetts case as something that changes people's minds? >> people are stuck, there is political polarization that has them in this mode where they don't care what happens, they despise the president and don't give a damn who gets killed, what happens, just ignore it. rob: no matter what he says, makes no sense.
interesting idea, thank you. jillian: 18 after the hour, russian hackers caught targeting the midterms. how the trump administration put the kremlin on notice. rob: sarah sanders sounding off, immigration and customs enforcement, for deporting that former nazi guard, stay tuned. ♪ we are the champions ♪ that might help. show me the carfax? now the car you want and the history you need are easy to find. show me used minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search and get free carfax reports at the all-new carfax.com.
ii and the nazis. >> a hurricane bears down is a category 5 storm, look at this, nasa releasing a 3-d map as it approaches the island. rob: it is a beast and it is headed for hawaii, a monster storm and it will make landfall. >> this is the strongest storm to come in this close proximity to hawaii, category 5, doesn't go higher than that, 160 mile-per-hour sustained winds, not a lot of time for people to make their final preparations but we need people to do so, we have hurricane watch is in effect and that is as perfect as a category 5 storm can get. let's look at the tropical storm models. most of the men agreement that it comes at least very close to the islands, watching honolulu for a landfall this weekend and there is the track.
it will make a north northwestern curve in the next 24 to 48 hours. the devastating part of the storm will be the rainfall. because of the mountainous terrain it will squeeze that moisture upwards of two feet of rain and this could be devastating. last time they saw a category of this strength was three decades ago. people will tell you that was a devastating, catastrophic storm. i'm so concerned for these vulnerable islands. there is a forecast rainfall, in some cases over two feet of rain, winds in excess of 80, 90 miles an hour and some of these, where we have the mountainous terrain the mudslides, potential for catastrophic flooding, this is going to be a huge story that we will watch. it doesn't get stronger than
that. >> already hit by volcanoes. jillian: foxbusiness alert, russia caught red-handed trying to hack the upcoming midterms. rob: tracy carrasco here with we accounts facebook just suspended. >> reporter: facebook says it was flagged by a cyber security firm about all of this but they suspended 652 pages, accounts and groups for coordinated inauthentic behavior spreading this misleading political information, accounts from russia and iran and this is the second time in a month facebook has suspended a number of accounts. last month they suspended 32 of these accounts for the same reason but facebook has been criticized since the 2016 presidential election because they have been trying to take some efforts to make sure this activity doesn't happen on this platform. jillian: they say intimidation
is the sincerest form of flattery, the same as chester chito. >> reporter: imitation. rob: you said intimidation. >> reporter: pepsico's frito-lay division make chitos accusing a new competitor of trademark violations. you can see this on your screen. peteohs a thin orange colored snack but they are made from peas and lentils, the bags are similar. the names sound the same but the cease-and-desist letter to the company that makes peteohs claiming their name, their logo which is a part friend and their slogan which is tigers live longer than cheetahs may be a direct aim at chester the cheetahs take away from the brand. rob: that is the most sincere form of flattery.
they are made of peas? >> reporter: peas and lentils. rob: sounds terrible. jillian: fox news alert, charged with the murder of mollie tibbetts, lawmakers demanding justice. rob: ted williams has been working the scene, live in iowa at the cornfield. ♪
rob: greg abbott weighing in on the immigration policy, this is why so many americans are angry about sanctuary cities, why texas band sanctuary cities. jillian: let's bring in ted williams who has been out there at the scene for weeks talking to police officers for weeks, joins us from brooklyn, iowa, right? john topsy is scheduled for today. what we know is when the medical examiner came out here and picked up the remains out here, i 12 miles outside brooklyn where the remains of mollie tibbetts were found. the autopsy, the medical examiner will conduct an autopsy, they want to determine the manner and cause of death. they know the manner of death is homicide but what they don't
know is actually the cause of death. rob: when you look at how the case develops for a few weeks, there weren't many leads. there was hope that she was still alive and all of a sudden the right surveillance video is found and picked up this black car following mollie tibbetts as she is jogging and this young man gets out of the car and confronts her and we go from there. it is a testament to how important surveillance video is and the need for all of it. these cameras need to be everywhere. >> absolutely. surveillance video cameras help out tremendously law enforcement in finding mollie tibbetts. what law enforcement was able to do, actually saw the black chevy following her.
they saw this person get out and from what we have been told this guy ran alongside of mollie tibbetts. at some point she said leave me alone. i will call the police and this guy, this illegal immigrant in this country illegally wound up harming mollie tibbetts from all indications. those are the allegations out there. jillian: in recent weeks we learned authorities zeroed in on a number of places including the boyfriend's home, the pig farm, carwash and truck stop and one other location. do you know of any connection between any of these places and the suspect and the cornfield where she was found? >> reporter: at this stage law enforcement has not let that information out. they did put out that information early on but as rob
said, the actual videotape, video footage of that vehicle that led them to this guy, kim jong un to, a migrant -- cristhian bahena rivera, and illegal immigrant. that is where the investigation took off and where he led them to the location i am now standing and that is when they found the body of mollie tibbetts. rob: there was so much hope she might be found alive. her father holding out hope, police indicating, hopes dashed with the discovery of her body. thanks, appreciate it. jillian: sarah sanders praising her boss and ice for a job well done, the press secretary
tweeting for many years a nazi forced labor camp guard was living in new york, terrible injustice. past administrations failed to deport him, donald trump got the job done. ice has removed this despicable nazi from our great country, ice has deported him to germany, the last known nazi collaborator in the us. a hard-working father breaking down in tears as a judge raise charges against his son-in-law accused of murdering his pregnant wife and two daughters, indicating christopher watts may have killed his kids before his wife came home from a trip, her body found buried in the colorado oil field. watts claims his wife strangled the girls after asking for divorce and he killed her out of rage. he has not entered a plea and could face the death penalty if convicted. rob: a police helicopter crashes and breaks apart trying to take off in a parking lot.
there it goes. you can see the chopper struggling to stay near, trying to lift off and then topples over onto the ground. the blade is destroyed, most of helicopter gets damaged, this was at a training center, the department blames powerful straight-line winds for the crash, the pilot was seriously injured but is recovering, should eventually be okay. the faa investigating after a jet makes an emergency landing, the claim was bound for london but two tires blue out moment after it took off. >> we just thought tire blue. >> we won't declare an emergency, but we would like to head back. rob: scary stuff trying to land without the tires. the reverend his entourage landed safely at a new york airport, just won song of the
year at the music video awards. coming up, major developments but still no evidence of collusion at this point. two of donald trump's former top advisers convicted of fraud and other things but these are crimes that have not much to do with russia collusion. jillian: the left, and a major win for mueller's team. and attorney saying not so fast, coming right back. dear foremothers, your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... commanded armies... yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 2 times more geographic detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com
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justice roberts said. >> he did not say that to me. conservative justices have a habit of saying something is set in law during their confirmation and then overturning it. >> schumer has spoken out against brett kavanaugh and calling a confirmation swing vote. former house it aid avoids jail after his lawyers complained donald trump was mean to him. sentenced to 3 months of supervised release for making false statements to get a loan. the president criticizing him on social media for being a pakistani spy. 's lawyers say that is punishment enough. he works for democrat debbie wasserman schultz before he was banned from the network, was criticized for not firing him immediately. rob: michael cohen has cut a deal, longtime attorney for donald trump agreeing to pleads guilty to eight counsel financial crimes, he could face 63 months in jail. joining me to discuss this and
the manafort case, alex sawyer. thanks for coming on this morning. the cohen case is more interesting because it does have ties to the president potentially and we are talking seventh and eighth counts. let's look at what he is charged with. tax evasion 5 counts, federal income, making a false statement or financial institution, bank fraud, not a big deal but the extent of campaign contributions causing an unlawful corporate contribution is what he says he did at the suggestion of donald trump and could be trouble. >> it is cohen's word against the president, we will see if there is written evidence, another recording:may have to show that the president is implicated in this. there will be a question about
whether this was a donation in terms of benefiting donald trump's campaign or if this was for the personal benefit, making sure his family wasn't embarrassed, that sort of thing. that is the question of the intent of the payment. rob: a big story, saying i don't want to mess up my marriage. might not have had anything to do with the campaign and hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt it was about the campaign. what we are talking about is $300,000 used to pay two women the president allegedly had affairs with years and years before this, money was funneled through the national enquirer, this actually has the media's full attention but still a great distance from the narrative of
the president and vladimir putin colluding together to steal the united states election, talking about the president having an affair ten years ago. >> you are right and donald trump was a celebrity, there could have been other payments made prior, obviously a suggestion, no proof of that but if they can point to that and say it happened in the past, women have come out, hedge money paid prior to him being a candidate, that shows this payment could have been routine, this is what michael cohen did to the president, this was not for the benefit of the campaign. at the same time you have the president looking at this, nothing to do with russia or colluding with vladimir putin, the mueller probe should end. the cohen please, nothing to do with russia, manafort's conviction, nothing to do with his time serving donald trump's
campaign. rob: the two biggest cases, put your best foot forward and part manafort convicted 8 of 18 charges, financial crimes, bank fraud trying to get loans, nothing to do with russian collusion, nothing to do with the president. >> what you have politics coming into play, the dnc send emails trying to fund raise off of manafort's conviction that this is proof the mueller investigation has credibility, that it should continue and 14 months led to this and this is the first one, multiple convictions, definitely a stretch. you pointed to michael cohen's situation, nothing at this point puts the president in hot water and in terms of any indictment,
a lot of legal experts say the doj's opinion suggest this would be after he leaves office. rob: the point of this was russia and russian collusion. that is why bob mueller has his job. thank you so much. jillian: it is 14 minutes until the top of the hour. let's check in with ainsley ehrhardt for what is coming up on "fox and friends". >> reporter: down here in dc interviewing the president live, an exclusive interview, we will take it after the show and show it to you tomorrow. a lot of questions, we will ask what happened with manafort and cohen and find out what the president says about that, did he direct them to pay off those women are not? we will ask about mollie tibbetts who was killed by an undocumented immigrant, 24 years old and get his reaction. tommy laren will react to the news of the day, greg jarrett,
paul manafort, alan dershowitz will be on the show in former ice director thomas homan, ask him about mollie tibbetts so stay with us, a packed show from 6:00 to 9:00. rob: thank you so much and when we come back, governor cuomo thinks america was never that great. what do millennials think? >> do you think there was a time when america was great? >> not particularly. >> i have to agree with governor cuomo. jillian: the man who hit the streets of new york to find out. he is live and walking our way coming up. ♪ orted accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com.
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>> new york governor andrew cuomo feeling back lash for taking this cheap shot at our country. >> we are not going to make america great again. it was never that great. rob: campus reform media director phillips went to the streets to see if millennials agreed. jillian: joins us now with the results. >> after those comments a lot of americans assumed that was just governor cuomo, he is crazy, most people don't feel that way but a lot of americans especially of my generation agree. they view patriotism as supporting trump, they don't have context. people would be shocked by what they see here. >> do you think america has ever been truly great?
>> i don't believe america has been great for all folks ever even today. i would have to agree with governor cuomo. >> do you think there was a time when america was great? >> not particularly. >> reporter: it goes on and on. one person said america has been great all the time because we are so exceptional. that stems from two things, one in the classroom, complete lack of american exceptionalism, student after student say my professor, my teacher never teach why we are great. the other things there is a pressure where students are afraid of being viewed as patriotic because they feel they are endorsing everything our country has done through history. you can admit our faults but understand the unique efforts that made us great. jillian: how did it get to this point? >> reporter: a lot of it is partisan politics. many on the left especially
allow their patriotism to be dictated by who is in power. during president obama's in your conservatives on the right, their levels of patriotism did not decline at all. now that donald trump is in power liberal patriotic levels have been going down. it has to do with who is in power. it is -- if you come out against america, a problem that needs to be addressed. you can't expect people to defend our greatness if they don't think we are great to begin with. rob: you feel it too. there is this suppression, this fear among people that even liking this country you might be labeled like the far left so often wants to do, a racist. you are a piece of trash if you like the american flag. >> we did the same 4 july. person after person said what is there to be proud of and what is going on? a lot of people don't have a context of history or a
realization of the circumstances or principles we have, how much better we are than every other country. jillian: go back years, i was raised in a family where you watched the news at night and see what is going on across the world and across the country but now so many are in their phones all time, on twitter you can get a lot of news but you think people aren't understanding and seeing what is going on outside our country? >> reporter: there is a biased view of america being given to people especially twitter and social media, negative about america all the time especially under donald trump but eight years of president obama made it seem being american was something to be apologetic about, went around the world apologizing, there is a lot we should be ashamed of and a lot of people came of age with president obama making it seem there is something they should be sorry for, being an american and donald trump saying we should be proud of american history and heritage and
history, there's a lag where people are shaking off what president obama thought. rob: travel the world, talk to people and find out how good we have it here. i go to so many places, you talk to the people and they are envious of the situation, the opportunities this country provides and you learn a lot all over the world. that is how you learn. appreciate your time. 55 minutes after the hour, teaching respect and those who put their lives on the line to protect our flag, how young children are learning a lesson from veterans. jillian: he stole $4000 from a church but immediately felt bad. the note he left behind, the change of heart, we will tell you about it.
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you are free to go. tide and downy together. jillian: full-time fotime for t, the bad and the ugly. taking time to flag etiquette. learn to race raise and fold the flag. rob: pray for me brothers. that's the note a crook left at a church after roning it the guy caught on camera stealing $4,000 worth of electronics in connecticut. jillian: a suspected drunk driver beach dwellers before crashing wave. abandoned on a south san
1980s and that case, the supreme court instructed federal courts to defer an agency's interpretation of the law if the law is quote ambiguous, unquote. some of your academic writings express skepticism about the chevron doctrine and concern that it allows an ad men straegs to impose its policy preference by avoiding the political process. i can understand why this is appealing to an administration. i also think it's a threat to the separation of powers because it transfers power fro the congress and just dish area to the executive branch. that's why i've reversed the chevron doctrine. many members of this committee have co-sponsored this ledges london attacks. as someone who has written extensively about the separation of powers, can you tell us why the separation of powers are so important and how it -- how it
helps to protect individual freedom. >> spiration of powers protects individual lebt because it responds to the concern the framers had that senator klobuchar yesterday that the accumulation of one power in one body would be the very definition of tyranny. federal 47 talks about. that federalist 69. the powers protects individual liberty. it does so because congress can pass the laws but you can't enforce the laws. a separate body has to decide to enforce the laws. even if the law is enforced, a citizen may say, well, i want someone who didn't pass the law or enforce it to decide whether i violated the law or whether the law is constitutional. that's why we have an independent just dish area to germany tee as an independent matter our rights and liberties. and the three branches, therefore, do separate things because it all tilts toward
liberty. it's hard to pass a law as you know in the congress. and then even if it does get passed, it affects your liberty. a separate body has to decide, usually u.s. attorney's office to enforce the law. that's a separate decision. >> that helps protect your liberty. even if that happens, you go to a court and say i didn't advise that law or the law is unconstitutional or they're interpreting that law in a way not consistent with what the law said the court independently decides that. it's not the members of congress or the executives deciding that. that's how the constitution separation of powers tilts towards liberty in all its respects. now. as to your specific question, senator, one of the things i've seen in my experience in the executive branch and in the judicial branch is a natural tendency, but it's a natural tendency that judges need to be aware of and then respond to
you. so here's the natural tendency, congress passes laws but then doesn't -- can't update the laws so maybe it's an environmental law or maybe it's some kind of law dealing with national security. let's take those two examples to illustrate and then an executive branch agency wants to do some new policy. and propose a new policy to congress, but congress doesn't pass the new policy. what often happens or too often i've seen is that the executive branch then relies on the old wall as a source of authority to do this new thing and they try to say, well the old law is ambiguous so we can fit this new policy into the old law as justification for doing this new thing. and i've seen this in national security cases. i've seen it in environment am. you see it all over the place. it's a natural phenomena. because the executive branch wants to implement what it
that normally isn't an issue during supreme court hearings. you testified before this committee in both 2004 and 2006 as part of your nomination to the d.c. circuit court. then you were nice enough to come by my office and chat with me last month. i asked you if you changed anything in your prior testimony and you said no. is that still your position? >> it is, senator. i told the truth. i was not read into the programs. >> i'm not asking what you did. i'm asking you if you would change anything -- >> i'd like to explain if i can. >> i will give you a chance, i will ask you a couple questions. go ahead. >> i want to explain that at the last hearing if 2006, in particular, you were concerned understandably because there had been two just terrible nominees
who had been involved in the legal memos in the legal discussions around crafting the enhanced interrogation techniques and protection policies. you were concerned whether i also was involved in that. and i made clear in response to those questions that i was not read into that program. that was 100% accurate. it's still accurate today. i think senator feinstein's report in the office of professional ethics said i was not involved. there were two judicial nominees. >> i want to go into that a little bit. i don't want to go over my time as the appreciating senator did. >> senator, i want to be clear, i want to reassure you. >> i will go into it and give you a chance to speak more. >> without -- i'm not going to take time away from you. i want to explain something. i said yesterday that if a question is asked within the 30
minutes, that he can finish the question and it can be answered. so i -- he did not go over his time. >> sorry. i did not mean to hit a sensitive area. let me ask you this, between 2001, i'm new here, between 2001 and 2003, two republican staffers on this committee gregogre regularly hacked into computer files of six senators, including mine. these republican staffers stole 4,670 files. they used them to assist in getting president bush's most controversial just official nominees confirmed. now, the theft by these republican staffers became public in late 2003 when the "wall street journal" happened
you testified, and you testified repeatedly, that you had never received any stolen materials, you knew nothing about it to the public. you testified that if you had suspected anything untoward you would have reported it to the white house counsel, or would have raised it with senator hatch, especially as mr. miranda had worked for him. at the time we left it there. we didn't know any better. today, with the very limited amount of your white house record that has been provided to this committee and it is limited, for the first time we have beenably learn aboable to about your relationship with mr. miranda and your knowledge of these events. so my question is this, did mr. miranda ever provide you with highly specific information regarding what i or other democratic senators were planning on asking certain
judicial nominees? >> senator, let my contextualize, let me see what you are putting up here. >> that question -- >> that, what's up there is 100% accurate. that's my memory. >> okay. so let me ask you this, that's -- >> never knew or suspected, true. never suspected anything untoward, true. and i suspected had i suspected something untoward i would have talked to judge govenz or senator hatch. that's all 100% true. >> that's what i already said. but did mr. miranda ever provide you with highly specific information regarding what i or other democratic senators were planning in the future to ask certain judicial nominees? >> well, one of the things we
would do as a white house is on judicial nominations, i'm coming to your answer, i will explain, to meet up here this happens on both times all the time with teams up here about okay the judicial nominees are coming up, how are we going to get them through? here's a hearing coming up. during those meetings, of course, it would be discussed, well, i think here's what senator leahy will be interested in. it's very common, i'm sure in president obama's administration within they had similar meetings, they would have meetings and say, i think this is what senator graham will be interested in. that's what you do in meetings with so highly specific, would i think,i i'm not sure what you a getting at -- >> i have been here over 40 years, i know what republican and democratic administration is
doing preparing. i'm not asking about that. i'm asking you why before this did mr. miranda send you an e-mail asking you on july 19ing, 2002, asking you and another bush official why the leahy people were looking into financial ties between two special interest groups and pursuant to a particular controversial nominee to the fifth second quarter? you would handle that nomination as you know as a judge, you had received a lot of contributions. did mr. miranda send you an e-mail asking you why the leahy people were looking into her pry natural ties? >> is that what this e-mail is? >> i'm just asking? >> can i take a minute to read
nit. >> of course. >> this is four days before the hearing on july 23rd. >> did i send any of the e-mails on this chain? i don't think so. i'm cc'd or -- in any event, if he said why are the leahy people looking into this from manny miranda, i don't have a specific recollection of any of this.
it would have not been unusual for and this happens all the time i think the leahy people are looking into this the hatch people are looking at that, i think. >> you say all the time. two days before the hearing, he told you that the democrats were passing around a related "60 minutes" story. he said his intel, television, suggests that leahy will focus on all things money. well, that appears to come from a stolen e-mail to me, stolen by the republican staff member sent to me the night before and then given to you the next morning. were you aware that you were getting from mr. miranda stolen e-mails? >> not at all, senator. it was a part of what appeared to be standard discussion about -- it's common, senator, for the white house, it would be common to hear from our alleged affairs
team. this is, in fact, in this process. it's common to hear. this is what senator x is interested in. this is what in y is focusing -- >> is it common to have copies of a private e-mail sent to a particular senator? >> copies of a private e-mail sent to a particular center? >> yes. wouldn't that just out at you? >> what are you referring to in. >> mr. miranda is telling you about e-mails sent to me the night before, there would be no way that he would even have that unless he stole it. did that raise any question in your mind? >> did he refer to that e-mail in this is this. >> yes. >> where is that, senator? >> i'll let you see it. >> i'm not seeing where you are -- i'm not sheing what you referring to. >> yeah, it's not clear.
>> why don't take one that you do have? you do have this information from mr. miranda and the very limited amount of material that the republicans are allowing us to see of your information about you, that at least did come through. but in journal 2003, let me go to something very specific, mr. miranda afforded you a letter from me and judiciary democrats to then majority leader tom daschle. the letter was clearly a draft, it had typos and it wasn't signed. somebody eventually, we never put it out, somebody ep ventually leaked it in this instance to fox news, i'm not sure who, i could guess. it was a private letter. at the time i was shocked it existed, it had been leaked.
but here's the thing, you had the full text of my letter in your inbox before anything had been said about it publicly. did you find it at all unusual to receive a draft letter from democratic senators to each other before any mention of it was made public? >> well the only thing i said on the e-mail exchange if i'm looking at it correctly, senator, who signed this is this which would imply that i thought it was a signed letter. >> it was sent to you. were you surprised to get it? it's obviously a draft. it's got typos and everything else, were you surprised a draft letter second quarter lated among democrats ended up in your inbox? by mr. miranda in. >> i think the premise of your question is not accurately describing my apparent
recollection or understanding at the time because i wouldn't have said who signed this if it was, if i thought it was a draft. my e-mail says who signed this? >> sow den realize what you had was a stolen letter signed by me that you had a letter that had not been sent to anybody fought made by the public in. >> all i see is a letter that says who signed this? that's all i see. >> let me ask you some more. so much of this came from mr. miranda, who was a republican staffer, who what was as we now know stealing things. did he ever ask to immediate privately with you in an offsite location other than somewhere at the white house or capitol hill? >> i think sometimes, senator,
that the meetings with senate staffers and white house and justice departments -- >> i'm asking you about one particular one with mr. miranda. >> yes, sometimes, usually it would be at the white house or the senate. i think sometimes we'd meet or doj, but sometimes it could be somewhere else. >> did he ask to meet with you privately to give you information about senator biden and senator feinstein? >> i'm not remembering anything specific, but that's certainly possible. again, senator, i just want to be clear here, because it's very common when are you in judicial selection process to determine what are all senators interested in for upcoming nominee or upcoming hearing. >> that is the cone of the realm. senator x is interested if focusing on administrative law. senator y is going to ask about
an environmental law. a senator is concerned about your past work for this client and that's very common kind of discussion. >> did you ever ask, had you meet him not at the white house, not at the capitol, but at his home? >> i don't remember that. >> okay. >> did he ever ask to meet you outside of the white house or the capitol? >> i can't rule that out. but again that wouldn't have been typical. >> did he ever hand you material separately from what would be e-mailed back and forth? >> i'm not remembering, if you are referring to something in particular, i could answer that. >> let me ask you this did you ever receive information via mr. miranda, information marked confidential informs you that my staff was sharing with other
democrat democrats? >> i don't know the answer to that, senator. again, it's not always the case, at least my understanding, that the people on for example your staff and senator hatch's staff were necessarily working at odds. it seemed like a lot of times the staff was cooperating at times, not at other times, obviously, but at times about just dish nominations. so it wouldn't have raised anything in particular in my mind if we learned, oh, senator leahy is concerned about this. >> did my staff ever send you confidential material from senator hatch that was stolen from his e-mails? >> well, not the last part. but the -- i certainly did talk to your staff working on the airline bill on the september 20, 2001 airline bill. i did remember being here all
night one night with your staff. i'm sure we did talk about what other senators thought. that was the airline bill where as i think you recall speaker hastert was involved and we were out there with the l & b team. with that i worked hard with your staff. it struck me as not uncommon at all to be talking with your team what both sides think. it doesn't strike me as it was armed camps. >> no, and oftentimes it was not. here you are getting obviously very private democratic e-mails. you weren't concerned how mr. miranda got them? >> i'm sure i'm not sure about your premise. >> were you at all concerned where mr. miranda got some of the material he was showing you? >> i don't recall that. but the premise of your last question, i wanted to step back to that, i'm not sure i agree
with the prem es. >> i want to say, you saw something marked "confidential," wouldn't you assume that's not something shared back and forth? >> unless it was shared. this is the thing, if the staffer says here's what we're sending to -- you all should be aware of this we will be opposed to this judicial nominee, just to be clear, it seemed to me sometimes there were judicial nominees you were very a posed to, sometimes you were supportive of. sometimes in between and there would be messages passed back and forth. you were transparent, in other words, when you had problems with nominees, i recall transparency, when you were supportive, you were at the may 9th event at the white house the president announced his first court of nominee, you were
supportive of many of them. >> as you know i voted for lot of republican nominees, both the supreme court and the district course. what i opposed with the judge when i was raising very questions about funding getting from people that were before her court, that might have raised a red flag that i had some concerns about it. now when you work at the white house, did anyone ever tell you they had a mole that provided secret information related to nominations? >> i don't recall the reference to a mole which sounds highly specific. certainly it is common again the people behind me can probably refer to this it's common i think for everyone to talk to each other at times and share
information. at least this was my experience, this is 20 years ago almost where you talk to people and the committee. >> you never received an e-mail with information coming from spying on a democratic mole? >> i'm not going to rule anything out, senator, but if i did, i wouldn't have thought that the literal meaning of that. >> it wouldn't have surprised you that few got an e-mail, saying somebody is spying? >> well, is there such an e-mail, senator? >> i don't know. >> we'd have to ask the chairman what he has in his consideredtial material. >> but here's the, if you are referring to something particular. here's what i know. >> just stop a minute here, referenced twice in your 30 minutes, don't take this off of his time, you made reference --
this, are you talking about the period of time that he was white house counsel? that material is available to everybody. >> so that bit of material about him is marked committee confidential is now public and available? is that what you say? if that's what the chairman say, we got a whole new series of questions. >> no, it's not a committee confidential. you have access to it. >> not so that i can -- >> you got 80% of the material we've gotten from the library is on the website of the judiciary committee, so the public has access to it. proceed. >> i want, i want judge kavanaugh to have access is so that we can ask him these questions under oath and he can see them. so i would ask and we'll have another round.
i'd ask the chairman to look at some of these marked committee confidential which limits the ability of us to ask you specifically and hand you the specific e-mails. but i would state -- >> let me answerer that for you. there's only one democratic senator asked for access to that, senator klobuchar got it. if are you interested in it, you could have been asking ever since august 25th, i believe. >> we have been asking to have those made public. i don't -- i'm not as interested if i see this in a closed room where i can't talk about it. i want judge kavanaugh to see the e-mails which came from mr. miranda and give us the citation of the document, we'll get them for you. >> that testimony up there is true.
100 100%. >> can somebody read it? we can't see it, right? >> of course, it would be helpful if we have the national archives time to complete their review. >> i want to reassure you, senator, you asking important questions. i want to reassure you what you have up on the board is 100% accurate. >> can somebody move it so we can see it here? >> i am concerned because there is evidence that mr. miranda provided you materials that were stolen from me. and that would critic your prcot your prior testimony. we are going into non-public ones you had reason to believe materials were obtained inappropriately at the time. mr. chairman, there are at least six documents that you consider committee confidential that are
directly related to this just like the three documents i shared that are already public, these other six contain no personal information, no presidential records, restrictive material. there is simply no reason they can be made public. i hope they will be this next round. it is difficult when to ask a question i have to ask the republicans, will you allow me to ask the question? i certainly never did that when i was chairman. now i had asked you in 2006 whether you seen any documents relating to president bush's warrantless wiretapping program or whether you heard anything about it. you acted, you heard about it with the rest of us in december 2005 with the "new york time's" reported it.
i know it's been we feel years, so here's a video of your sworn testimony. testimony. . >> it should be on the tv screens. >> the documents relating to the president's nsa warrantless wiretapping program? >> senator, i learned of that program when there was a new york sometimestimes story that the wire i think on a thursday night in mid-december of last year. >> you had not seen anything or had you heard anything prior to the "new york times" article? >> no. >> nothing at all. >> nothing at all. all. >> nothing at all. . >> mr. chairman, can i -- can i again, don't take this time away from him. now, as far as i know, in 15 hearings, so i'm going to read something in 15 minutes, pre
face it with this. as far as i know in 15 hearings that i have been involved in of supreme court justices, there has never been such a video shown. so since this is precedential, i want to read this. the use of a video at a confirmation is highly irregular, but i see no reason why my colleagues can't use a video provided by the nominee. in response to the senate questionnaire. i have been assured this video is from judge kavanaugh's sum makes to the committee, based on this assurance, we've allowed this video to be shoevenlt bu i shown. but i want to emphasize it should be used fairly and not in a way that depriefbs it of relevant condition text. this is kent with requirements in federal court. that's why i will insist judge kavanaugh had the opportunity before he answers this question to request if any additional video be played, if it provided
appropriate context. so judge kavanaugh, i would ask you, do you believe more context is needed to be able to address the question? >> well, i don't think i've heard the question yet, i'll let you know when i hear the question. >> let me ask you this. i'll repeat the question as before. you said you heard about this with the rest of us. in december of 2005. you said on the air that you had no knowledge of anything related to this until the "new york times" article. now we have a declassified inspector general report that on september 17th, which is before the, several months before the "new york times" article. john showed you a under surveillance of the white house that it informed the legal under
pinks of the nsa warrant wireless tapping program. when you were in the white house in 2001, did you ever work with john hugh on the constitutional implicationsi of a warrantless program? >> we're talking about a lot of different things here. >> warrantless under surveillance program. >> that's talking about a lot of different things. so that what you were asking right there was the specific, what president bush called the terror under surveillance program. that was his name for it. >> which is a warrantless under surveillance program. >> along with many others. and that's, you were asking me about the terrorist under surveillance program tsp i think he called it. >> that sort of was broken. >> that testimony is 100% accurate. >> that story was broken in the "new york times." i had not been read into that program and when it came into the "new york times," i actually still remember my exact reaction when i read that story.
and then the president that saturday i believe did a live radio address to explain to the country what that program was about. there was a huge controversy and so etch was then working on getting the speech together. you asked me filearned about it before then. i said no, that's accurate. >> okay. when you were in the white house, did you ever work with john hugh on the constitutional implication of any warrantless under surveillance program? >> well, i can't rule that -- right in the wake of september 11th, it was all hands on deck on all fronts and then we were farming out assignments, but we were all involved, on september 12th when we came in, let's back up. september 12th when we came into the white house, it was, you know, we had to work on everything. so then over time, people figured out what issues they were going to work on. the airline bill that i was up
here on september 20th when president bush spoke to congress that night as recall. after that we were in the meeting room together you and i and others working on the airline bill. there were other things going on the patriot act was going on. >> i was involved in all of those discussions, but what i want to know, did you ever raise questions about warrantless under surveillance? >> i can't rule anything out leak that. there was so much going on in the wake of september 11th, senator, as you recall up here, too. but in the white house, in particular and in the counsel's office in particular, we had eight lawyers in there, eight or nine as i recall. there were so many issues to consider for the president and for the legal team and those issues, leak i said, for problem, every day for the next seven years was september 12th, 2001. and for the legal team.
>> there was a lot of us. >> yes. >> i sent a letter to you along with senators feinstein and durbin august 16th of this year asking to make documents related to this issue public. without them being public, it's not fair to me, it's not fair to judge kavanaugh, that i can't have the actual documents, which i think would refresh his memory. and i would ask again, you might look at that before my next term, can we make those public? >> you tell us what documents you want and i'll make them available to you, but i can't say that they can be made public. just as i said last year during
justice gorsuch's confirmation, i put a process in place that will allow my colleagues to obtain the public release of confidential documentles for use during the hearing. all i ask is my colleagues identify the documents they intended to use and i would work to get the department of justice and former president bush to agree waive restrictions on the documents. senator feinstein secured the release of 19 documents last year under this process. senator klobuchar secured the release of four do you means this year. if my colleagues truly believe other confidential documents should have been made public, they neff told me about that. so let us know what you want and then you can go ahead and we'll get them for you. >> i want the same thing i requested in august 16th, because it's directly relevant to judge kavanaugh's testimony, directly relevant to his the
questions i have been asking here, directly relevant to his own e-mails with john hugh. so before my next term, we can take a look at that. >> well, we'll get them for you before your next term. >> you said you agreed the president absolute unfit fettered check to pardon any federal law. did the president issue a pardon in exchange for a bribe? yes or no? >> senator, i think that question has been litigated before and i don't want to comment about any -- pardon, i don't want to scope about, there are a couple things involved in that question. one is what's the scope, the
effect of the pardon? and the other question is can you be separately charged with a bribery crime, both the briber and bribee. those are two separate questions you want to keep separate in thinking of a hypothetical. >> in that -- mr. chairman i got interrupted an awful lot. i just want to finish this. >> but i made sure that if the teamer didn't treat, give him another minute. >> thank you. >> god bless you, i'll be forever thank you. . president trump claims he has an absolute right to pardon, himself, does he? >> the question ofof self pardos is something i've never analyzed. it's a question i've never written about.
it's, therefore a hypothetical question i can't begin to answer in this context as a sitting judge and a nominee to the supreme court. >> the other half of that is the obvious one, does the president have the ability to pardon somebody in exchange for a promise from that person that they wouldn't testify against him? >> senator, i'm not going to answer hypothetical questions of that sort. there is a good reason for it. when judges don't, when we decide, we have briefs and arguments of the parties. we have a record. we have an appendix with all the information. we have amicus briefs. i never side thing alone, i'm in a panel of three. if confirmed to the supreme court i'd be on a team of in en. >> thank you, mr. chairman, i hope for the sake of the country that remains a hypothetical question. >> sense i gave you an extra
minute. i will not let you reserve the 25 seconds. >> i'm done. >> senator graham. >> thank you very much. j ul the 21st, 1993. i certainly don't want you to have to layout a test heret this abstract, which might determine what your vote would be in a cass have you yet to see that may welcome before the supreme court. that was wise counsel by senator leahy and against bird's confirmation. very directly. did you ever knowingly participating in stealing anything from senator leahy or any other senator? >> no. >> did you ever know that you were dealing with anything that was stolen property? >> no. >> as to the terrorist under surveillance program, did you help korea it this program.
>> no. >> did you give legal advice about it? >> no. >> we're referring to the same program? >> yes, the one the article was about. >> so a bit of a kind of a run-through here. you will probably be get votes 54 to investigation, 57, i don't know what the number will be. there are 11 undecided senators before the hearing. three of them republicans, i like your chance, and eight of them are democrat. you are in five of five or six of them. i want your family to know in other times someone leak you would probably get 90 votes. i want your daughters to know that what happened yesterday is unique to the times that we live in. and i want to give you a chance to say some things to the people who have attended this hearing. i think there is a father of a parkland student who was killed
and i think there is a mother of a child who has got terrible health care problems and there are many other people here with personal situations. what would you like to say to them, if anything, about your job as a supreme court justice? >> senator, i understand the real world effects of our decisions. in my job as a judge for the last 12 years, i've gone out of my way in my opinions and in obviously arguments to make clear to everyone before me, that i understand the session, the sessions, the facts, for example of saying to senator feinstein earlier in the heller 2 case about the factsin d.c. and -- facts in d.c. i want to reassure everyone that i base mid decision on the law
but i do so with an awareness of the facts and an awareness of the real world consequences and i have not lived in a bubble and i understand how passionately people feel about particular issues and i understand how personally people are affected by issues. and i understand the difficulties that people have in america. i understand, for example, the situation of homeless people, because i see them on a regular basis when i'm serving meals. >> so tell me about. that what interaction do you have with homeless people? in there senator, i regularly seve meals at catholic charities with father john ensler, the head of catholic charities. i have known him sense i wal was
an altar boy what you learn, i said matthew 25, i try to follow the lesson of serving the least fortunate among us, when i was hungry, you gave me food, thirsty, you gave me drink, stranger, ewell come me naked and cared for me in prison and you visited me. six groups that that's not exclusive, it's a good place to start with your charitable works in your private time. >> skrodescribe the difference between brett kavanaugh the man and gret kavanaugh the judge. >> well, as a man i'm trying to do what i can in community service, as a dad a coach a volunteer a teacher, as a husband and serving meals to the homeless the one thing. senator, you know we're all god's children, we're all equal. people have gotten there because maybe they have a mental
illness. abe they have a terrible family situation. maybe they didn't have anyone to care for them. maybe they lost a job and have no family. but every person you serve a meal or better, frankly, because they've -- what they've had to go through on a daily basis just to get a meal, and you talk to them. that's the other thing. when you walk down the street, you see people -- i understand this, i don't want to sound better than someone describing this, but you don't necessarily look and you don't say, how's it going? but when you serve meals to them, and you talk to people that are homeless and they are just as human and just as good of people as all of us, and we're all part of one community and so i think about that and, you know, i don't want to sound, like i can always do more and
more, i know i fall short but father john has been a big influence on that and jesuit academy, on the board, a little different situation. boys from low-income families, tuition-free schools, 7:30 a.m. to 7:00 schools. i started tutoring to do more tutoring and just be involved more and judging is important but i wanted to be more directly involved in the community. they have tutoring. you do all your homework there. a situation you don't want to go home. you have three meals there and do your homework there and i help them do their homework. and they're great kids and you make an effect on their lives. the teachers and coaches throughout america, they change lives. for me to be able to participate, know, you can't
change everything at once, but just changing one life, one meal one day at the shelter or one kid that remembers something you said in a tutoring program, you know, if we all did that more and i fall short, too, i know. and i want to do more on that front, but you can make a big difference in people's lives. i just bring that into the judging. i think my judge based on the law, but how does that affect me as a judge? i think first of all i, standing in the shoes of others. we could all be that homeless person. we could all be that kid who needs more, a more structured educational environment and one of the things i was taught by my mom but also i remember chris able, my sixth grade english teacher and religion teacher and football coach and baseball coach, one of his -- and he drove me to school, one of his -- and he's now on the board
of judges academy with me but one of his lessons since "kill a mockingboard" kill in the shoes of others. i still have that in my chambers. the same copy. >> is it fair to say that your job as a judge is not so much stand in the shoes of somebody you're sympathetic to but stand in the shoes of the law? >> in the shoes of the law with awareness of the impact of your decisions. that's the critical distinction. you can't be unaware. when you write an opinion, how's it going to affect people? and understand, try to explain. i think -- you know, it's explaining. it's such an important feature. then when people come into the courtroom and how you treat litigants. we're all familiar, we've all been in courtrooms where the judge is acting a little too full of being a judge, and to -- well, we've all been there. i try not to do that.
i can't say i'm perfect but i try to make sure the litigants understand that i get. whether it's a criminal defendant case. we had a pro se case. pro se case where a litigant comes in argues pro se in our court which rarely happens in our court where the pro se actually argues and it was a guy who said he had been called the n word by a supervisor, and he's arguing pro se and questions whether a single instance of the n word constitutes harassment under the civil rights laws, and i wrote a separate opinion explaining, yes, a single instance of the n word does constitute a racially hostile work environment and i explained in doing that, the history of racism in this country and that, and how that word, no other word in the english language so powerfully or instantly calls to mind our country's long and
brutal struggle against racism i wrote in that opinion and cited "to kill a mock pg bird inmocki opinion. but i understand stood his situation and decided a case based on the law, but i understood with the pro se l litiga litigant. the point being -- >> have you ever made a legal decision that personally was upsetting to you. >> i'm sure i have and that's what justice kennedy talked about in texas versus johnson. that case, in case didn't know i referred to, the flag burning case. and justice kennedy is in the majority with justice scalia, brannen and justice marshall and says that a law against flag burning is unconstitutional under the first amendment and that tore justice kennedy,
really bothered him because he's such a patriot but still ruled the way he did, because he read the first amendment to compel that result and that's why he wrote that great concurrence in that case and that concurrence is such a great model for judging, a great model of independence and a great model to your point, senator graham of, we follow the law, but we're aware, we're aware, and a better judge if you're aware. >> well, i just want to say this to my colleagues. everything he said i think has been verified by the people who know him the best. i can't say i've read 307 of your opinions. i can tell you without hesitation i have not. i did not read sotomayor's opinions or kagan's writings but what i chose to do look at the people who knew him the best and i think bob bennett, who defended president clinton during impeachment, i know him very well, said that brett is a judge's judge.
smoun doing his absolute best to follow the law rather than his policy preferences. brett is an all-star in professional and personal life. i've yet to find anybody that i find credible, really anybody at all, that was saying you were unfair to litigants. yet to find a colleague that thought you were a politician in a robe. but you are a republican. is that true? >> i registered -- >> was a -- >> yeah. >> i'm glad to hear you say that and it makes a lot of sense given who you work for. >> i haven't -- well -- i'll let you finish your question. >> you worked for a lot of republicans. like the president, who is a republican. >> yes. president bush. i worked for, yes. >> so -- i remember -- i'll tell
you what i remember when she leaves. so -- i asked elena kagan about a statement that greg craig made. do you know greg craig by any chance? >> i've met him. i haven't seen him in many years. >> he was the -- one of the defender's of president clinton during the itch peampeachment h and somewhere in here -- i've got greg craig's statement about kagan. no. i'm looking for the greg craig statement. here we go. here's what -- kagan was a progressive in the mold of obama himself. alana kagan is clearly a legal progressive and comes from the progressive side of the spectrum according to ronald klein, the first was greg craig, and i had
an exchange with justice kagan when she was the nominee. i'm not trying to trick you. i don't have anything on brick. he said on may 16th you're a largely progressive in the mold of obama himself. do you agree with that? ms. kagan, senator graham, you know in terms of my political views i've been a democrat all of my life. i worked for two democrat presidents, and that is what my political views are. then i asked, would you consider your political views progressive? ms. kagan. my political views are generally progressive. which is true. i really appreciate what she said, because i expect president obama to go to someone like elena kagan. who is progressive. shares his general view of judging. and happened to be highly
another hour but we're out of time. my thanks to steve schmidt, most of all, thanks to you for watching. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts right now. welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm chuck todd here in a big curly w washington. lchl exactly a year after the presidential election, today's been another hectic day in the nation's capital from capitol hill to the courts to the white house. house backed an impeachment inquiry into the president and historic symbolic action that moves us one step closer to public hearings. and behind closed doors, it was another bomb shell day as the national security council top russia expert tim morrison
confirmed much of the substance of the damning testimony by the administration's top diplomat to ukraine, bill taylor, what he testified to is that military aid was contingent on investigations into the president's political rivals. this is according to a review of morrison's opening statement. now, morrison also testified that he was warned about rudy giuliani and eu ambassador gordon sondland's efforts to get ukraine's president to open investigations into hunter biden's company burisma. not his company. the company that he was on the board of. in addition to those developments, we have proceedings in two potentially game-changing court cases today that could determine whether deputy national security advisor charles kupperman and former white house counsel don mcgahn will be forced to testify under subpoena before congress. and what happens in kupperman's hearing could have big implications on whether the former national security advisor john bolton ends up testifying under subpoena before congress, as well.
because kupperman shares an attorney with bolton and bolton has been invited into the impeachment inquiry next week and he has simply said he is not going to come voluntarily. he wants the subpoena. we'll get to all that in a moment. all of this is happening after the house took its first vote on impeachment proceeds approving a resolution to guide the next steps of the process. but vote fell very much along party lines. two democrats broke with their party. one republican had already broken with his party to the point where he left the party. justin amash voted with the democrats. okay. that's the definition, folks, of party line. legally, doesn't change much of anything. but symbolically, lawmakers are drawing their lines in the sand and at least for now, today's vote makes clear that washington is still extraordinarily divided on this issue. and that republicent and democrats are retreating to their corners. a reporting team has been all over the action today. garrett haake is on the hill. kelly o'donnell at the white house. let's start on the hill where we
have testimony taking place with mr. morrison there. so, garrett, we've learned a little something. but it's interesting, some of the republicans in there have come out and they believe mr. morrison has been helpful to the president. >> yeah, that's true. chuck, it feels like that was about six weeks ago there's been so much going on capitol hill today. morrison's testimony, as you pointed out in the open, was largely confirmtory for what bill taylor has said about the arm or the aid for investigations part of this. but what morrison also told the committees was that he listened to that phone call and he didn't hear anything that he thought was illegal. now, of course, that's not the bar for impeachment but it is something that republicans can hang their hats on here a little bit. and morrison also described based on the reporting of my colleague leanne caldwell, who's done such a good job with this story, not really following the burisma connection as it was happening in real time. he really underscores the two parallel tracks of foreign
policy that were going on within the white house. the official foreign policy of the u.s. government of which he was a member. and the secondary foreign policy of rudy giuliani and perhaps the president that he was not privy to at the time. and was putting together later. it also speaks to how this impeachment inquiry is just going to build and build and build. the vote today is such a key part of it. setting up public hearings. we've got another full week of depositions at least for next week. just the ones you've laid out with bolton scheduled to come if he does show up on next thursday. so all of that will continue as these members are now on their way back to their districts tonight where they will have to continue to sell this. democratic members, in particular, having to continue to sell this back in their districts as something that the country needs to go through. >> i want to -- i want to pick up on that for a second. i -- the -- the thing that has surprised me the most about today's vote was how neither party really wanted to have -- there weren't many rank and file members that wanted to go to the
floor to make the case for why they were voting the way they were voting. it was almost they all hid behind their leadership on that. >> yeah. that's true. you know, leadership in the democratic side painted this as something that they were forced to do by this president. and if you think about it, nancy pelosi has been resisting the idea of trying to impeach this president for the entirety of his term in office. and so this -- democrats cast this as something that was forced upon them by history. that the president has brought them to this point and they had to make this vote. so for democratic members not to be rushing out to scream about how excited they were to be voting to impeach the president makes sense on that strategically. on the republican side, you saw some of the same. this desire to defend the president within a relatively narrow framework. but i think there is also some concern on the republican side that as you start to defend the president, you don't know where this is going, right? so much of the defense has been built on process up till this point. okay. now, we're making adjustments to the process.
we heard a little bit of that today with the language republicans have been using for a while but it seemed to be turned up in bits today about this is trying to invalidate the 2016 election. the degree which republicans can link this impeachment inquiry to opposition of the president going back years, i think you'll hear the names al green. that argument can make this feel distasteful for independent mind voters, democrats who are not sure about this. and i suspect we'll hear a lot more of that going forward from republicans. >> right. don't look at the substance. try to blur the lines with -- with -- >> it's just one big effort to get rid of this president. yep. >> the big blob on that front. i get that. kelly o'donnell. the white house today, i think they were hoping for more democratic defections. they didn't get it. this basically was the party line vote. republicans lost one. democrats lost two. that's not -- you don't get bragging rights on either side
for something on that one. and more importantly, it means the president's on the road to impeachment, which we know the white house isn't happy about. so i assume they're happy they didn't lose anybody besides amash but what can you tell us? >> well, there is a new development in just the last couple of moments and that is our colleague pete williams reports that a decision on whether charles kupperman will have to testify, again, he is the deputy to john bolton when they were here serving the president in the national security space. that won't come for at least a month. so that is according to peach reporting that there will be another hearing in december. so if we were expecting to have some quick resolution on some of the most high-profile names, we won't be getting it. >> let me ask you. kelly, let me pause you there. is the white house happy to have this stuff dragged out? or do they want to see this stuff resolved so they know what they're dealing with? >> in a larger way, they have been really arguing on their
actions for dragging it out. in part, because the closer it gets to what is exactly the election year 2020, the easier it is to fashion this as being purely political instead of an inherently political process because impeachment is, by definition, a political solution to a problem. and that is, in part, what the white house has expected. that the longer this drags out, much like in the russia investigation, as much as the president and his team were battered and bruised by that, they came out of it. and in many respects, they believe that there is a fatigue factor for impeachment and we'll have to see. would they like to have some clarity on who will be required to testify when you're talking about someone like don mcgahn who had been the president's white house counsel? i'm sure there's some anxiety to get a resolution on that. but the courts are in a separate track here and so that's going to take a little more time. but the president does have some ability to use his influence and
his relationships on republican members. so he was quick today to say there were no defections among the republican side. they had known justin amash had left the party earlier so they were looking at the broader piece of that. might they have thought there would be in those trump districts where democrats prevailed in 2018, that there might have been more peeling away? certainly, they would have liked that. before this moment, the president can only do so much. and working the phones and building relationships and offering his help in districts where he can be helpful, that's what he can use at this point to try to keep republicans in line. >> garrett haake, kelly o'donnell kicking us off with today's news events of the day. obviously, the single most important thing that happened today is the world series championship washington nationals. i'm going to get that in there anytime i can. kelly, i think it's impressive you decided to be a red head for the nationals. i really appreciate that. >> i know garrett's from texas. >> yeah, both of you.
that's right. thank you, both. all right. joining me now, two people who know a lot about both sides of this story from the legal perspective, as well as the national security perspective. ned price, msnbc contributor, former national security council spokesman. frankly, if he were there now, he'd probably be subpoenaed. >> glad i'm not. >> chuck rosenberg, msnbc contributor. former u.s. attorney. former fbi official and who knows you would be in the middle of either subpoenaing people or not if you were in the middle of it. >> subpoena him. >> the host of the oath podcast where he talks with former public officials about this pivotal moment in american history. all right. i want to start with this issue of kupperman. and this is a classic separation of powers question. you could be arguing the government's side of this or you can argue congress's side of this. what do you think is the white house's strongest argument from
preventing? >> first of all, i'm glad you framed it as a separation of powers issue. it's not a republican/democrat thing. it's the legislative and executive branch and the parties could have been flipped and in the exact same position. so i don't blame mr. kupperman or his lawyer for asking the courts to resolve it. i mean, the lawyer has said that kupperman, the deputy national security advisor, is indifferent. whatever the court tells him he must do, he will do. and that's frankly an incredibly logical position. so what's the white house's best argument? i think they have a reasonable argument, although it's fact dependent on executive privilege. it's a real thing. presidents from all parties and all administrations have asserted it in one form or the other. i think the notion that they have absolute immunity, meaning that the witness doesn't even have to show up -- >> scalpel. you need a legal scalpel here. it's like, okay, you can get executive privilege for here and
we'll carve out the territory, you know, rather than, you know, rather than just saying yes or no. >> i think that's probably where the court comes out that they say that absolute immunity is a made up thing. that a witness has to show up and that when the witness shows up, he or she can assert privilege on certain questions and certain responses. privilege is normally construed narrowly because the idea is you want the fact finder. whether it's the congress or the court or a jury to get as much information as possible. so this notion that i don't even have to go, that i don't have to show up in this body that wants my testimony, i don't think that flies, chuck. >> ned, first of all, did you guys ever get legal briefings when you were at nsc about what would fall under sort of executive privilege? what would -- what would be your legal requirement? i'm just curious, like, how are you -- how are national security council staffers briefed on their legal requirements? >> we certainly had ethics briefings and i think some
people might say too often but for a very good reason. when you serve in the white house and serve at that level of influence within our national politics, it's probably for the best. now, frankly, these issues of separation of powers and privilege, executive privilege and absolute immunity, this wasn't something that i became familiar with until the trump administration. frankly, because the obama administration, i am pleased to say, was scandal free. it is not like my colleagues were routinely dragged to congressional hearings to testify behind closed doors or dragged before courts. because this really is a creation of this administration. >> sure but there were some things, for instance, benghazi, i think they wanted to get some folks on the national security council to testify and you guys said no. >> of course. of course. but it's not like this was the -- this was the substance of our day. >> my point on that is it did fall under some executive privilege. >> even absolute immunity is something previous
administrations have claimed. it's not the currency. it is not the currency that it is in this administration that everything seems to revolve around scandals. >> all right. so much has happened today that we sort of got lost. there was a pretty interesting important story this morning in "the washington post" about -- about the idea that the transcript of the call that lieutenant colonel vindman was so concerned about it when he went to the -- mr. eisenburg. first of all, tell us about the other server. how often did you interact? >> i had no contact with the server and that's the acronym for the intelligence server. only those people in a directorate called the directorate for intelligence programs within the national security council have access to that server. they are the ones who ever access to it. they are the ones who oversee it. even when the national security advisor or even perhaps the president of the united states wanted to access a document from that server, they tended to be the ones who would print it off, take it to the oval office, take
it to the national security advisor's office. >> what do you make of that story? the -- the house intel is going to want to hear from mr. eisenbur. and i'm sitting here wondering how are they ever going to hear from him? he's counsel. not the definition of at least some form of attorney/client privilege with the executive branch here. >> well, first of all, his client is not the president. >> yeah, who is the client here? >> for a white house counsel or deputy white house counsel, the client is the office of the presidency, the institution as opposed to the individual. and that sounds like a distinction not only a lawyer could love but it's a really important distinction. you know -- >> it's one that this president doesn't understand. he doesn't -- does think his white house counsel is his lawyer. >> it's an important distinction. will they hear from him? i don't know. i mean, there are always exceptions to privileges. if you commit a fraud, if you commit a crime, you can't behhi
behind a privilege. privilege can be destroyed. taken away. >> do you think then his rationale for this is something he should have to testify to? >> well, so i would like to hear from him. one of the things we're always trying to assess as federal prosecutors -- well, two things. motive and intent. they're different. motive is why you did something and i don't have to prove motive. intent is whether or not you did that thing on purpose and i always have to prove that as a prosecutor. and i would love to hear his motive and intent and was it perhaps nefarious? i don't know. was he doing it at the behest of some other person? did he think there was legitimate reason to take this document and put it into a more secure place? these are all possibilities. and i have a theory but my theory doesn't matter. what matters is hearing from the witness as to motive and intent. >> what do you remember about phone calls? when you guys handled them with leader phone calls and how often would you see them? >> i would see transcripts or reconstructed transcripts i shall say of just about every phone call.
phone calls took great preparation. great work and thought would go into this. it's something that a package would go up to the president a day or so before his phone call. it would have talking points. it would have background. it would have everything he would need. typically, these would also be done in the oval office with senior aides sitting next to him. they could pass notes back and forth if they had to. and the process in the situation room isn't all that different from what we've heard in this case. you would have a transcriber working in the situation room. you would then have directors in the national security council staff who would go through it not just change the substance but to make sure specific technical terms like burisma wasn't missed. >> i saw they were using some sort of software. very quickly, as an attorney, as your prosecutor, you've seen these opening statements at least, right? we don't know -- i'm talking about these opening statements of the current investigation. that's the one -- these are facts we can confirm. everything else is still sources say.
looks like to me might have enough to indict. like, they want to keep getting information but if you get enough to issue an indictment and you still want to get more information, when do you -- when do you issue that indictment? and do you still go get more information? like, what is your line of, okay, i've got enough? >> well, so, there's no such thing as too much evidence when you're a federal prosecutor. you always want more. there is a law of diminishing margin returns. if you take too long to acquire evidence, right, then you're spending 95% of your time on the last 5% of the stuff. >> the blue shirt or orange shirt, right? >> yeah. at some point, it no longer makes sense. what they're doing now makes sense, chuck. they are talking to lots of witnesses to see if stories are consistent. not perfectly consistent because that would raise other concerns, as in -- >> people aligning their stories. >> but consistent enough to know that you are at the truth. >> so right now, you don't think they've overdone it yet. >> doesn't appear to me, no. >> chuck rosenberg, ed price. thank you both. joining me now is somebody who's been in the room for a lot of these depositions, including
today. it's new york democratic congressman greg meek. he's part of one of the three committees currently responsible for this inquiry. thanks for coming in. we were talking about the deposition of mr. morrison. we've seen the reports. we've seen he's confirmed largely mr. taylor's accounts there. what more can you tell us about mr. morrison? has he been a -- has he been a -- a -- a cooperative witness? >> yeah. i think that what you said and basically what i can drive eriv he has been a cooperating witness. we're trying to see in drive for the truth and he has basically corroborated what ambassador taylor has indicated. just as it seems as though there was a question initially about the whistle-blower, what he said. but most of the witnesses, just about all, have come in and been -- and have corroborated
what the whistle-blower said, what ambassador taylor has said. and what the president has said, too. so it seems to be cooperation throughout. that's why i think it 's good t be where we are now. >> well, what is this some point? and when do you think you've had enough evidence to start presenting what you have found to the public? >> well, i think that that's what the vote was about today. setting what those rules are. and soon, there will be public hearings. i heard, you know, part of your conversation. and i think that when you are a prosecut prosecutor and you go into the grand jury proceeding, you don't wash something through. you try to make sure you get all the evidence and you understand all the potential counts that might be in an indictment. so you don't want to go ahead and say, oh i got this and you indict and then you find out evidence later on. then you got to go back and redo
the process. you want to be as inclusive as you can. and that's what we're doing. you know, this is a very -- i know it's political but it's a very liberative process and it's something that i think nancy pelosi was right that no member of congress wanted to do or thought they would have to do when they were elected. so we're trying to dot i's and cross t's here and present it to the american people and take the facts we found from this proceeding to the judiciary so we can see whether articles of impeachment should be brought. >> right. but i -- i -- we can't -- we can't pretend that 2020's not around the corner. at what point -- where are you on that question? right? which is at what point does it start to get too close to the election where this becomes a harder -- a harder thing to explain to the american public? >> well, look, i don't think even now what we're trying to do and what i think is clear how the president abused his power. how the president threatened and
hurt the national security of the united states of america by withholding money to an ally. that becomes clear in how the president was trying to get a foreign government involved in our politics. that has come out of the president's mouth. now, you've got to corroborate it because you've got to prove it. we still, you know, trying -- the senate is a jury. i know some say it's going to be difficult to get 20 senators. i'm reminded of it was a late breaking thing with richard nixon when everybody was somewhere but once all the evidence had gotten out, had they tried to impeach richard nixon or talked about it when initially they were doing their investigatory stages, no one was there. but once the evidence was done, we'll see. i think it'll be done in a timely fashion but an appropriate fashion and a deliberate fashion. >> well, speaking of timing, we just learned a few minutes ago that the -- that a hearing is not going to be scheduled until december 10th to find out if mr.
kupperman, who's -- who has asked the courts to decide whether he can legally appear before you, you know, what -- what -- what does he fall under? the congressional subpoena? executive privilege? things like that. this will impact john bolton's potential testimony. december 10th is a long way away. that's more than a month away. how much does a delay in getting to kupperman, getting to bolton, how much does that delay the larger process here? >> well, i mean, these are substantial witnesses and that is something that is actually out of our control in the sense that the courts want to rule. look, we want as many people to come in to testify, whether they're part of the administration or not. i think that from witnesses that i saw, i want the public to be able to judge the -- the voracity of the people that have testified. i've heard some of my colleagues on the other side go after them. i want them to see the public servants that have come before us and they can make that judgment for themselves. the president has said they wanted to be able to call his own witnesses.
he seems to be the only one hiding behind executive privileges that want to prevent witnesses from testifying. so it seems to me you can't have it both ways. we are ready to hear them if they would come forward right now. if the president would stop trying to get them to hide behind executive privilege, we can do it in a much more timely fashion. so that question i think would be more appropriately asked to the president, why doesn't he let the people come testify? >> final question is, obviously, you know republicans on the other side of the aisle, they're hitting you on the process of this. how this is being conducted. are you sensitive to the fact that -- that you can't let these hearings become a spectacle? and, you know, you may have folks on the other side who are trying to bait many members of congress to make this a spectacle. how do you prevent that? >> i think that speaker pelosi and i think that what we've been doing at least in hearings that we've had thus far, adam schiff, chairman schiff has been very,
very professional about it. and i would hope that our republican colleagues would do the same. not play the kind of antics that they've done downstairs and the american public then will be able to see the antics that they did. when i hear such comments that, you know, republicans don't get a chance to ask questions and things of that nature, they do. and the public will get a chance to see that. so we will do what's on our part. i mean, this is -- we understand that the camera of history is rolling and we are being called upon it. and we are going to be very thoughtful about how we conduct and continue to move forward in regards to this impeachment inquiry. >> i like that praise. the camera of history is rolling. should be a catch phrase for those of us in television news. congressman greg meeks democrat from new york. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. much appreciate it. >> thank you fosh having me. after the break, we've got more on what is -- will be seen as a historic day in capitol hill.
plus, the view from the other side of the aisle. talk to another member who was in the room today as another key witness told his story. today asy witness told his story but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis.
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we just heard from a democrat who's been present at the impeachment inquiries close door deposition. now, let's go to the other side of the aisle for republican point of view on this. kelly armstrong, member of both the house oversight committee and the house judiciary committee. congressman armstrong, thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> well, let me start with the same question i started with mr. meeks. mr. morrison, what kind of witness was he as far as you were concerned? >> i think mr. morrison was a very good witness. i think it just goes to prove our point that we want all of these transcripts released. we want as much information out to the general public as soon as possible so the american people can decide what's going on down in the bunker. >> it sounds like you're for public hearings. so in some ways, you're glad
this process is going to become a more public thing. why is that? >> as somebody who sits on both the judiciary committee and has dealt with this impeachment farce since the first day i got into congress and has sat through almost all of the oversight depots, i haven't heard a single thing down there -- practiced criminal law for almost my entire adult life. there are procedures and things that go in place and as we get here, just public hearings isn't enough. i'm not sure you can undo the damage that has already been done. i mean, this is about credibility, and due process. but yes, i want public hearings. i want them as quickly and as fairly as possible. >> one of the things that the new law's going to allow for if the president wants to call witnesses, he can. what witnesses do you think he should call? or what witnesses would you like
to see called that haven't been? >> i would like to see mr. morrison's testimony as public as possible but those are decisions for the white house to take. i always air on the side of transparency. i mean, the one difference, we continue to equate these things to criminal cases but you have to remember at the end of any kind of criminal investigation, one, nothing leaks during the middle of it for as many criticisms i have of the mueller report, there weren't leaks going out every 30 seconds to drive a narrative. but the problem when you leak specific things is facts are stubborn things and as the whole picture comes into play, particularly with the game of telephone evidence, you're starting -- so i -- i -- i mean, i'm just going to err on the side of my constituents and anybody in the country seeing all of it. >> we've seen these opening statements and i'll be honest with you. i've been trying to be careful of just going by facts we've learned from opening statements and i've tried to ignore the sources say this was also said inside. but just based on the opening statements since that is something most of us have been
able to read, it is more transparent than anything else about this process. have you been concerned about the number of instances where it's clear the process wasn't followed here when it came to aid with ukraine? >> well, am i concerned about it? first of all bs i want to start with opening statements aren't even testimony. they're not part of the cross examination. they're not part of that process. so i -- i get -- testimony and evidence are two different things to begin with. particul particularly, when they're released without any cross examination. also, i would argue that most of these opening statements are -- i mean, it's not even hearsay because that would be -- some kind of official court proceeding. but it's the game of telephone. it's third hand, fourth hand, fifth hand information and without having the ability to read those whole transcripts, it's really hard to talk about that. i think those opening statements do not paint an accurate picture of what is being said. >> well, okay. but they certainly are standing by it. they're saying it under oath.
i mean, i do view -- i mean, should we not take what's said in those opening statements, whether it's ambassador taylor, whether it's fiona hill, that we shouldn't take that as their testimony? >> i think you should take that as their opening statements of their testimony. and when you have the whole transcript -- but i'll start with this. i think this is abundantly clear and this is something i've noticed in d.c. since the first day i got here. one of the things that the career establishment bureaucratic establishment doesn't like about the president is he doesn't do things in the same way that they're used to. and i think actually that's why the guy got elected and that's why i was proud to support him. so saying that something wasn't done properly or through proper channels does not make it illegal, does not make it improper, and does not make it impeachable by any stretch of the imagination. >> well, of course, there isn't a legal standard to impeachment. as you know, it doesn't matter something legal or not. as we know, impeachment is a political -- it's a political definition. right?
we know -- i mean, what's impeachable? it's like a ham sandwich. what can you indict? you can indict a ham sandwich. doesn't mean you convict a ham sandwich. >> as somebody who's served on the house judiciary committee and oversight committee, i can tell you with full support that this impeachment process is a purely political exercise. >> is there anything you've heard that's been disturbing to you? is there -- i'm curious. this -- because, you know, i've talked to plenty of republicans who are in this sort of middle ground. they don't believe it's impeachable. but they do think the president did something here that he shouldn't have done. but there is no mechanism to sort of wrap his wrists because it's either all or nothing. >> yeah. i think the answer to all of that is whenever you put yourself in the situation of somebody else, particularly somebody with president trump's personality and those such things, would you have done some things maybe a little different? sure. but that doesn't rise to the point of impeachment. particularly, when you're dealing with the democratic party that started these the second day i got here and just moves from one issue to the
other. i have seen nothing remotely close to something that rises to the conduct of impeachable. and if impeachment was actually, you know, high crimes and misdemeanors, as somebody who's done in in the court of law my entire life, i would be happy to defend the president in any real courtroom. >> all right. the most important thing is prove a point to me. are the washington nationals the only thing that united congress these days? >> is washington nationals are the only team you're allowed to have your second favorite team. but it was a great game last night. fantastic. >> all right. well, sort of the point i've been trying to prove. it's the one thing from keeping this town from totally cracking up. congressman, thank you for coming on and sharing your views, sir. appreciate it. >> happy halloween. >> thank you very much. up ahead, how does the impeachment inquiry change now that congress is on the record? nobody is surprised by how anybody voted on this one. so why did we make this so dramatic? we'll be right back. e make thiso dramatic we'll be right back. across cars... trucks...
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we take no joy in having to move down this road and proceed with the impeachment inquiry. but neither do we shrink from it. >> welcome back. to help unpack what's been a busy day here in wash washining. always seems to know what's going on on the hill. former advisor hilary clinton's 2016 campaign. former capitol hill chief of staff herself nbc news contributor. former press secretary -- bunch of capitol hill rats in a good way i say. right? is that tough? sahil, how significant is today? >> it's certainly significant in that this is only the fourth time in american history the house has voted -- we didn't learn much about where people are going to come down. only two democrats across the
aisle. they're the only ones who really put a stake in the sand and said we're going to vote against party leadership where people mostly get in line. no republicans voted for this. there's plenty of time if they decide at the end of the day, there's time to do that. democrats, similar story. these democrats can vote how they want in the final vote, that is what counts. >> let me ask the two of you, you both have been advisors to members of congress up there. i'll start with you. if you have a democratic member of congress who said, look, i got to be against this impeachment at some point. would you say today's the time to do it? or wait till there's articles? >> still tbd, right? we don't know how many similar votes like are going to come. look, pelosi's office is making the following point that it was important to get all this on the record to have members of congress, both democrats and republicans on the record voting for this because there are some changes to the procedural process for the impeachment inquiry. and yes, she didn't -- i think she felt it was very important
to be able to at least go out there and establish the fact that this was something the house voted on. this was not a silo decision that was only made by speaker pelosi. this is something that brought democrats and republicans together. of course, there was a party line vote but nonetheless she felt it was important to show she's working with republicans to put this on the floor. >> if you needed -- to the no-impeachment stake in the sand, is this a vote to do that on? or would you wait? >> i think if my boss was going to be the lone member or one of the few, then i probably would have said let's go with the caucus. find a way down the road to separate yourself. >> brendan, same question on the other side. if you're advising a republican who's like i don't like what the president did, at some point i got to say that. >> there is safety in numbers. if there was a handful of people thinking about it, everybody would be focused on them if they went. but i want to clear perception there were a lot of hand wringers today. this may sound strange to people but today the president was potentially set up for impeachment and perhaps
republicans this was a big day. they left the capitol excited because they've been itching to show that they are fighting for the president. that's why they stormed the scif a few days ago to show that they were fighting for him. i guarantee you marc meadows earlier said today was a 9.5 for him and just because of the political benefit. >> they all want to be seen as fighting for the president, being on his side. and frarnkly nothing excites republicans in the house more than being united. >> here's what struck me about today, i feel like everybody hid behind leadership. at the end of the day, i when this vote first happened, i would have assumed everybody needed to explain their vote so that we would have had -- in fact, i assumed we were going to be stuck here doing parade coverage of just constant because like healthcare. remember, it took hours because everybody wanted to make that statement to their local -- so their local tv station picked up what they said. nobody wanted to explain their vote today. >> it's a procedural vote. there's usually not a lot of explaining to be done on a
procedural vote unless you cross party lines. >> okay but sahil, what -- yes, it was a procedural vote but it was not a procedural vote. it was big enough she decided to have the gavel which that sends a message. >> absolutely it did. the speaker of the house typically does not vote. this was unusual magnitude. look, one thing it does is this moves the whole impeachment process to a new phase. so far, it's been procedural. republicans have been calling this a sham, a farce. a lot of them have not been saying trump did nothing wrong. >> his argument is simply release the transcripts. said differently like, you know, nobody is ready to be all in with him. you can tell that. >> it's always easier to attack the process. >> i've been talking to a lot of folks. they are going to hold on to the process argument as long as they possibly can. but there is some recognition that that's going to run out eventually. you know, when there's public hearings. i think what you are going to start hearing a lot of is, no quid pro quo. >> that's not the worst thing.
it was bad but it wasn't that bad. >> it will shift the conversation away from did he ask for dirt on -- and -- and framing the question as was there something in exchange for it? they'll say the aid flowed. clearly, there wasn't anything done in exchange for that. so, therefore, no quid pro quo. case closed. that's the argument you're going to start hearing. >> it's a nuanced argument. >> i completely agree. and that's what republicans have been doing so far. they are running out of options on this. and when they go out and say there's no quid pro quo, that's when they start getting defensive of the argument, they are going against national security leaders, military leaders. people who have received purple hearts. i mean, some of the most decorated veterans that we have who are so credible on these issues, they are going against them. and that's where i think this creates a very difficult situation for republicans. really quickly, chuck, on the vote. i think it's also important to keep in mind there are not a lot of swing districts left out there in congress, right? yes, i mean democrats did very well in the midterms but when it comes to republicans, most the
republicans who are currently in congress, correct me if i'm wrong brendan, but pretty much -- right? >> there's still about a dozen or so. yes. >> yeah but you lost most of them. currently held by democrats. so i think republicans probably felt safe going out there and voting the way they did because not a lot of them are in marginal states right now. >> sahil, i think democrats were dealt a bit of a timing blow today when we found out kupperman's hearing isn't going to be until december 10th. when you think about the public hearings, the potential power of public hearings with john bolton talking with, you know, somebody in their dress blues talking things like that. but if they're not going to a clear when bolton can testify, and we're talking into mid-december, this whole -- the slower this gets rolled out, you know, i could see 2020 from my house. you know? >> real timing blow. the real nightmare scenario is this kicks into january. think mid-january. the senate trial is in february. >> well, at that point, can they have a trial if it's in
february? adrian, if you -- what would you do? >> we talked about this on the show before. yes. you can have a trial. it's not the most ideal situation -- currently running exactly because you can be everywhere and the senators have to be back in washington on the trial. you can have surrogates on the campaign. it's going to be interesting to see the creative surrogates that are put out there. >> let me argue the opposite. i don't think the story at this point is that there is stonewalling. i think from what i expected this to be, there is an embarrassment of riches of people who already testified. and i -- you know, and maybe this person has compelling testimony but i would argue they've already got a bunch of compelling testimony and plenty of people they could bring forward for hearings as soon as they want to. >> you think they can do basically both things at the same time. have their hearings and still fight their legal bat lgs. >> i think that court fight is going to be much more relevant long into the future, you know, the article one versus article two fight than it is relevant to this particular situation. >> democrats are thinking like
prosecutors who have a defendant who they're pretty well sure is guilty. but they know they're going to face a very tough audience in the jury, which is the republican-led senate. trying to cover every base so they don't get blindsided. >> good way of putting it. they know they have the goods but they have a tough jury. >> exactly. >> all right. sahil, adrian, brendan, stick around. coming up, there is a presidential campaign going on. we're going to give you evidence of it in a second. we're going to give you evidence of it in a second. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you
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welcome back tonight in 2020 vision too say if washington it would be an understatement. it's only thursday. while the democrats here are focused on impeachment, democrats on the campaign trail are keeping on keeping on. or they're trying. pretty much every candidate hopeful will be in iowa for the big liberty injustice dinner, the jjj jefferson jackson dinner. many democrats are changing the name of that dinner. some of the candidates are there. joe biden is holding an event in iowa. he's the first candidate to say the house did its constitutional duty. colors is al clarz is in i-- kamela harris is there. bernie sanders was beat by mayor pete by a day. it will swing by the state house sometime in the next 15 days to file before the deadline.
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xfi advanced security. if it's connected, it's protected. call, click, or visit a store today. welcome back. as we just told you most of the 2020 democratic field is far away from washington right now, far away from the impeachment debate. the panel is back, so hill, adrian and brendan, adrian, i'll start with you. you were working with a
presidential campaign. right now you got about -- this isn't, there is down days, you said you got breaks during national disasters, you not being the news, that's one thing. but this is going to be a sustained period of time where the presidential campaign is going to feel secondary. >> sure. it's definitely a challenge, right? because the national news and you obviously would know this than any of us on this panel, chuck, is going to focus on impeachment. it's going to drive the news, it's that much harder if you are a candidate to get your point across. >> kamela harris needs to find, is trying to get back into relevance. >> or steve bullock. >> this is good if you are biden or warren, right? you are already on top? >> there is a chance that this freezes the primary. it's a chance to get out and focus on your message and get the headlines in the des moines register and the manchester newspaper, really trying to get your local press going, that, you will not get a lot of
national news. it's a good time to get local headlines. >> you assume local news exists anymore, i assume all news is national. >> i remember when elizabeth warren said you don't find that. >> we find out you don't. >> i think it helps her and biden and people at the top. if you are a corey booker or kamela harris at this point you have no options, you better raise some money and do other things. >> i want to push. >> the undercard, people outside the top three, even if pete buttigieg, kamela harris, this is a time when boone happens, it happens on a national level. >> jjj is where barack obama basically threw down the gauntlet in iowa. everybody said, oh, this is real. that's this weekend. right? and you are right, can that boom happen if washington is obsessed? >> this is the moment theoretically to make that happen. it's hard to do without attention. i mean national attention, iowa
press can only get you so far. >> i will respectfully disagree. this is a time for candidates to focus on local press. we're not seeing what people are reading, digesting in the first four early states. but this is a chance to really focus on that. there are people watching their local news, reading their local newspapers. and again, that is why you are seeing in some of these early states, people are polling, candidates are polling better in their early states and national lid and vice versa. this is a chance to hone in on our local strategy and get your numbers up in the targett regions. >> i want to focus on one thing. we have, joe manchin went on fox a couple days ago, he was asked about bernie sanders, he basically said he doesn't think he can support bernie sanders if he were the nominee. bernie sanders has a message for joe manchin. >> i would remind joe manchin of west virginia to take a look at the election results in the last
democratic primary held in west virginia. if my memory is correct, i believe, i won every county in west virginia. and we won with a very strong victory. >> look, elected democrat saying something about a top basically saying he can't support a top elected potential nominee. is that a problem? i know bern? i on one extreernlgs manchin on the other? >> i don't think it's a problem for manchin, i think for a progressive democrat more hoff a main stream democrat. joe manchin is obviously taken. >> you have no problems with manchin? >> i do. he flirted with thep idea of running again. even to bernie sander's he did sweep vest virginia. >> he did, it's a smaller democratic electorate these days. >> everyone in walk understands the situation joe manchin is in, in west virginia. i think bernie sanders is the only person who would take a swipe at him there. you know, who thinks that's good politics for everybody.
it was a total game changer. learn more about the condition at factsonhand.com tonight, several developing tonight, several developing stories as we come on the air. the cdc and what they're now urging involving thanksgiving. urging americans not to travel. it comes as nearly 200,000 new cases and nearly 2,000 deaths reported in just the last 24 hours. the cdc's alarming new prediction about the death toll by mid december. authorities in new york city and across the country taking new action. in california, issuing a new curfew tonight. ohio's governor warning hospitalizations are reaching critical levels. dr. anthony fauci at the white house podium for the first time in months and what he said late today. reporters asking where is the president on this virus. what we're now learning about a third vaccine tonight showing promise. late today president-elect joe biden warning american lives
are at stake with the president refusing to work with him on any transition, on any plan for vaccine distribution. with mr. biden approaching 80 million votes in the popular vote he was asked about the president's continuing legal battles. biden telling our mary bruce let me choose my words here. what he said next. the abc news investigation on the 100 hardest hit counties in the u.s. during this pandemic. the rural communities where nearly everyone knows of someone lost to this. 33 lives lost in just one community. the subway attack in new york city. what we learned tonight. prince william now breaking his silence amid the new investigation into the famous interview with princess diana 25 years ago. was she tricked into doing it? what prince william is now saying tonight. >> announcer: from abc news world headquarters in new york, this is "world news tonight" with david muir. goodve
good evening. great to have you with us on a thursday night. we begin with the new warning from the cdc. it's blunt. they're urging americans not to travel this thanksgiving. with the nation having lost more than 250,000 american lives to this and given what they've seen in the last 24 hours, nearly 200,000 new cases, the numbers are accelerating too fast. they fear thanksgiving will only make it worse if we all don't pitch in. we took note of this map from the "new york times" showing the nation's hot spots. the deepest red there. this virus is all across the country. after passing the 250,000 mark, this cdc projects we could see 298,000 lives lost by mid december. governors across the country saying this is dire. pleading for the public's help. louisiana's governor saying his state is in the third surge of this pandemic. ohio's governor reporting hospitalizations are at a critical state. the highest so far in the pandemic. new hampshire imposing a statewide mask mandate. california with a new overnight curfew for much of that state.
there's also news coming in on a third vaccine showing promise as well. dr. fauci in the white house briefing room for the first time in months late today. abc's whit johnson leading us off in new york. >> reporter: tonight, the cdc is recommending against travel this thanksgiving as it now forecasts another 46,000 americans could die by december 12th. a staggering potential toll of nearly 300,000 people. a vaccine can't come soon enough. the white house coronavirus task force, briefing for the first time since july. dr. anthony fauci touting the effectiveness of the pfizer and moderna vaccines and reassuring americans they will be safe. >> we need to put to rest any concept that this was rushed in an inappropriate way. this is really solid. >> reporter: the general in charge of distribution for operation warp speed promising the vaccines, if approved, will be on the move immediately. >> i can look you in the face
and say to you, eua comes, 24 hours later, vaccines will be distributed out to the american people and be ready for administration. >> reporter: hospitalizations are now climbing in all 50 states. nearly 80,000 patients, a new record. icus hit hard in south dakota, where new cases have surged by 400% in the last two months. still no statewide mask mandate. >> a lot of us are tired of seeing the negative comments from the community, the lack of understanding of how serious this illness is. >> reporter: tonight, about 100 of the country's biggest hospital groups out with a new ad begging the public to do their part and wear a mask. healthcare workers grinding through exhaustion, eight months into the pandemic. >> every day we come into work it's going to be one of the worst day we've had. >> reporter: ohio reaching critical hospitalization levels and california ordering a curfew in hard-hit counties between 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m.
outside oklahoma city 13-year-old devon embry went from the football field to the icu. now, fighting for his life on oxygen. >> devon was one of the ones who did not want to go back to school because he was so scared of it. he wanted to play football, but he couldn't do it if he stayed at home. >> reporter: in utah retired music teacher grover wilhelmsen playing his beloved violin while on a breathing machine. lifting the spirits of hospital staff before becoming too ill and requiring sedation. >> that was a remarkable scene. whit joins us now. pfizer the first vaccine we heard about, they expect 95% effective, to apply for emergency use operation tomorrow. moderna saying theirs is ready too. news on a third vaccine tonight? >> reporter: oxford and astrazeneca say new results show their vaccine is safe and produces robust immune responses in healthy adults and people over the age of 70. they're still awaiting data from
late-stage trials. the vaccine roll-out is expected to take months. the task force is urging americans to double down on masks and other public health measures. david? >> whit johnson starting us off from new york. whit, thank you. you heard that urgent plea from the cdc to stay home, not to travel this thanksgiving. authorities are now warning those negative tests are not a pass to do what you would like. they're urging caution with all these test results. here's our chief national affairs correspondent tom llamas in boston tonight. >> reporter: tonight as families debate how to spend thanksgiving, millions are rushing to get tested. and now the cdc with that warning strongly urging americans not to travel for the holiday and only celebrate with people in their own households. the guidance creating a particular challenge for families who want to see their kids away at college. >> i think i'll get a test before i leave just so i don't put my family in danger. >> reporter: but experts caution testing could provide a false sense of security. >> a single negative test is not
a pass to say i am fine, i can now go do whatever i want. you could still be infected and incubating. you can't test your way into thanksgiving dinner. >> reporter: boston's mayor telling students if they go home, stay there. >> if they do go home for the holidays, we're asking them not to come back, if they could just do the rest of the semester online. >> reporter: at boston university, they're recommending students not go home at all. in a perfect world, you'd want students to celebrate thanksgiving right here on campus. >> absolutely. we're encouraging all of our students to stay here on campus. we know that travel increases risk of viral transmission. >> reporter: sophomore amanda buettner is one of those students staying on campus. >> i didn't want to go back there and bring it back to boston. >> reporter: one doctor in utah saying think about the most vulnerable people in your family. >> some people have said gather at thanksgiving and regather for your funeral for new year's day. that is a bleak way to put it, but at this point, we really have to be honest. >> reporter: governors from
multiple states with a new psa. >> mask up, illinois. >> mask up, ohio. >> mask up, indiana. >> reporter: those same governors now pleading with americans to avoid big family gatherings, writing in a new op-ed, "as hard as it will be to not see them this thanksgiving, imagine how much harder it would be if their chairs are empty next year." >> let's get right to tom tonight at a testing site at logan international airport. tom, officials are warning for weeks now really to avoid traveling. tonight, you're learning there's some new proof that americans may be heeding that advice not to travel. >> reporter: that's right, david. united, american and southwest reporting spikes in cancellations. the tsa thinks they'll see a significant drop in travel this thanksgiving holiday, compared to last year. as you mentioned, we are seeing a new trend at the airports because some people still have to travel. pilots still have to work. people have to work at the airport. there are testing centers at the
airport offering rapid tests. just like other sites, they tend to run out. david? >> tom llamas in boston. tom, thank you. late today president-elect joe biden warning that american lives are at stake with president trump refusing to allow his administration to work with mr. biden's team on any transition on any plan for vaccine distribution. with mr. biden approaching 80 million votes in the popular votes, leading by 6 million votes, and of course his win in the electoral college nearly 6 million votes, he's trump got four years ago. mr. biden was asked about the president's continuing legal battles. mr. biden said let me choose my words here. what he said next. here's mary bruce. >> reporter: tonight, president trump is nowhere to be seen as the country is reeling from a resurgent pandemic. he hasn't held a public event in nearly a week. instead of focusing on the
virus, the president is singularly focused on the election. refusing to recognize he's lost or coordinate with joe biden's team on the transition. in the briefing room today the vice president not taking any questions, reporters asking where is the president. >> thank you all. >> reporter: mr. vice president -- >> reporter: mr. vice president -- >> reporter: are you really not going to take questions? >> reporter: the president-elect growing increasingly concerned for the welfare of the american people. biden meeting with a group of bipartisan governors. >> my transition team hasn't been able to get access to information we need to be able to deal with everything from testing and guidance, to the all-important issue of vaccines, distributions, and vaccinations. >> reporter: we asked him about the consequences. how many lives do you think are at risk here if this transition remains stalled? >> there is no excuse not to share the data and let us begin to plan. because on day one it's going to take us time if we don't have access to all this data. it's going to put us behind the eight ball by a matter of a month or more, and that's lives. how many would be lost as a
consequence of that? i can't tell you. >> reporter: almost all of the president's legal challenges have been dismissed. hitting dead ends, trump and his campaign are now looking to friendly state lawmakers and election officials to overturn the results in key states, states biden won by tens of thousands of votes. what do you think the president is doing? what are americans witnessing here? >> let me choose my words here. i think they're witnessing incredible irresponsibility. incredibly damaging messages being sent to the rest of the world about how democracy functions. and i think it is -- well, i don't know his motive, but i just think it's totally irresponsible. >> reporter: he had strong words for the president's actions. questioning if they're even legal. >> he will go down in history as being one of the most
irresponsible presidents in american history. it's -- it's just out of the -- not even within the norm at all. there's questions whether it's even legal. >> mary bruce asking the questions late today. let's get to mary in wilmington tonight. there was news today about michigan where the president lost by about 148,000 votes. we've learned the president has called republican officials in wayne county, home to detroit, we know sometime after that call they tried to rescind their vote to certify the results there. now there's word the president invited some republican law makers to the white house. >> reporter: this is all part of a shockingly bold, last ditch attempt by the president to somehow change the election results. today his personal attorney, rudy giuliani held a lengthy press conference laden with false statements and, again, no evidence of any voter fraud. tonight the government official tasked with ensuring election security, chris krebs, the one trump fired earlier this week for stating there was no voter
fraud, he's calling that giuliani press conference the most dangerous hour and 45 minutes of television in american history. david? >> mary bruce, thank you. we continue to report on where this virus is hitting hardest and why what kind of care you get could depend on where you live. what you have access to. tonight our abc news investigation continuing this looking at the 100 u.s. counties with the highest rate of death where so many families seem to know someone lost to this. here's steve osunsami. >> let them know that all they got to do is call on the name of jesus. >> reporter: reverend willard weston in terrell county, georgia, says that church services here have never been this empty. so now he livestreams them online, on some nights from his home. >> god wants you to be blessed. >> reporter: families still worry that if they come to church, they could get sick and die. the coronavirus hit this rural community hard. 33 people were killed during the height of the pandemic. does it surprise you to know
that your county is on the list of one of the hardest hit places in america? >> no, i'm not surprised because it was happening so frequently. >> reporter: abc news and our abc-owned stations across the country have taken a close look at the data, and it shows the 100 counties in the u.s. with the highest rate of death. what many of they have in common -- most are rural, poor and have limited access to quality health care. the hardest hit -- gove county, kansas. >> and it's been hard because we have cared for them so long. >> reporter: in south georgia, there were so many g funerals, the ministers here had trouble clearing the red georgia clay from their shoes. and then in october, the strain of this pandemic closed one of the few remaining hospitals. when this hospital closed, it was an incredible loss for people in this part of georgia. it served patients across six counties and was a life saver during the height of the covid crisis.
now those same people have to drive up to an hour away to get to the closest hospital. some residents have to drive into alabama to get to an emergency room. what happens if this county sees march again? >> i think we may see a lot of fatalities. >> reporter: we were moved by the story of one woman who lost three relatives and told us it feels like the rest of the country has forgotten about her part of america. here at the cdc they're out with a new report that shows that at the height of this pandemic the cities that were hit hardest with the highest rates were urban areas. tonight it's small towns. david? >> we can't forget about these communities where someone knows someone moved and touched by this. steve, this is important reporting, thank you. steve will have much more later tonight on "nightline." when we come back, prince william breaking his silence
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including these premium locations renew active gives you so many ways to be healthy. get medicare with more. tonight prince william is breaking his silence on the new tonight prince william is breaking his silence on the new investigation into the bbc's interview with princess diana in 1995. the investigation looking into claims she was tricked into doing it. abc's james longman from london tonight. >> reporter: tonight, prince william breaking his silence about a new investigation into this controversial interview with his mother diana. >> do you think mrs. parker-bowles was a factor in the breakdown of your marriage? >> well, there were three of us in this marriage. so, it was a bit crowded. >> reporter: william saying he tentatively welcomed the independent investigation into how journalist martin bashir persuaded the princess to speak, calling it a step in the right direction and saying it should help establish the truth. it's a significant move, lending weight to long-held beliefs in
diana's family that bashir used dishonest tactics to land the interview. charles spencer, diana's brother, has claimed bashir had bank statements forged to trick diana into thinking royal staff were being paid for information on her, and that bashir said her car and phones were being tracked. bashir has yet to respond to the claims. the bbc saying he's too ill to comment after reportedly suffering from covid-19 and undergoing heart surgery. the bbc cleared bashir of any wrong doing in 1996. it said it's taking this new investigation seriously. david? >> james longman live in london for us. thank you. when we come back, the subway attack in new york city. thank you. when we come back, the subway attack in new york city. watch your blue light lanterns, blast those eardrum bangers! look at this one: he's trying to pick up the mail! hah! silly... oh... silly humans. who do you think you are?
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finally toni finally tonight, america strong. the husband who looked up and saw exactly who he had been waiting for. david and janine started to feel coronavirus symptoms within days of one another. they both had the virus, two of their children had it too. janine and the children getting better, but david struggled. he was admitted to the hospital and fought the virus for eight weeks without seeing his family. eight weeks in his wife with antibodies was allowed in to see him. in protective gear, her husband at first didn't realize it was his wife. then he does. >> no way. >> that's your wife. >> how are you? >> look at that. >> reporter: he waited eight weeks.
>> he just walked like a champ. >> don't cry. >> he missed you so much. >> don't get me going. i put make-up on for the first time. >> that's the best thing. >> reporter: their hug. >> the best medicine you could get. >> oh my goodness. >> you look good. >> reporter: one week later when he came home from the hospital, there was this. [ applause ] >> there he is! >> yay! >> whoo! >> reporter: the whole neighborhood at a safe distance welcoming dave home. right here tonight -- >> hey david. >> thank you for sharing our story. >> dave and janine and their children back home together. sending us a big thumbs up. so glad dave is home. the whole family together for ♪
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enroll by december 15th. is tonight, breaking news as we come on the air involving the vaccines. a cdc panel voting late today on who will get a vaccine first and how soon, as the head of the fda is summoned to the white house today and is asked why the pfizer vaccine hasn't been approved yet for emergency use. his answer, as hospitals now buy freezers to store the vaccine at minus 94 degrees. and there is new guidance from the cdc coming in tonight if you've been exposed to the virus. this evening, the increasing numbers across the country. nearly 100,000 americans now in the hospital fighting covid. in new york city tonight, officials urging older adults and people at high risk to limit time outside their homes. two-thirds of the city's icu beds are now full. the plea for retired nurses and doctors to be ready. and the retired doctor coming
back onto the front lines for a second time now. tonight, the icu nurse dying in the hospital where he worked for 25 years. the major headline tonight involving president trump and the election. today, the attorney general bill barr, who has sided with the president often, now saying the justice department has found no evidence of widespread voting fraud. and tonight, is the president now considering pardons for members of the trump family, including himself? jon karl with late reporting. president-elect joe biden formally introducing his new economic team, telling americans struggling that, quote, help is on the way. the urgent manhunt tonight under way for a serial attacker in an american suburb here in the northeast. the suspect striking at least ten times. where they're searching and what the police chief is now saying. we now hear tonight from that missing boater saved at sea after clinging to a submerged boat to survive. and the storm warnings from ohio to new york tonight. heavy snow in cleveland and east.
up to a foot in some places. and what's coming next. ginger zee tracking it all. good evening and it's great to have you with us here on this tuesday night. we have a lot to get to tonight. president trump and the election and the attorney general bill barr. the a.g. today declaring there was no evidence of widespread voting fraud. but we're going to begin tonight with news coming in right now from the cdc. the vote this evening by a committee of experts recommending who should get the vaccine first. and tonight, even with the first batch of pfizer vaccine here in the u.s. already, pfizer is waiting for emergency use authorization. the head of the fda was at the white house today and was asked why no approval yet, when should americans expect it? tonight, hospitalizations rising in 43 states, washington, d.c. and puerto rico. the number of patients fighting covid in the hospital, more than 96,000.
that's another record. and tonight in new york city, hospitalizations back where they were in june and they are asking retired nurses and doctors to be prepared to help. in fact, the number of hospitalizations in new york city more than doubling in just the last three weeks. the governor very alarmed with what they're seeing here. but we're going to begin here tonight with that vote a short time ago at the cdc. the recommendation on the vaccines and who should get them first. abc's steve osunsami at the cdc leading us off in atlanta. >> reporter: american health officials tonight are calling it phase 1-a. after an emergency meeting in atlanta, they've decided to encourage the nation's governors to give the first available doses of the coronavirus vaccine to certain seniors and health care workers. >> in discussions with the jurisdictions, most of them believe that they can vaccinate all of their health care workers within three weeks. >> reporter: the government is expecting about 40 million doses from two drugmakers in the next few weeks, enough to immunize 20 million americans. the experts took a vote and said
that the best use of these first shipments is to first cover some of the heroes, the nation's 21 million health care workers, including those who work in hospitals, pharmacies and clinics. and they say we also need to try and first immunize the most at risk, the nation's 3 million seniors and the people who care for them, who live in nursing homes and assisted living. 40% of all coronavirus deaths in this country happened in these long-term care facilities. >> if we can hold together as a country and in the next 60 days, vaccinate all of these residents, we can cut the death rate almost in half. >> reporter: the fda still hasn't yet approved any of the vaccines for emergency use. and the head of the agency got an earful from the white house today because of this. he explains that the pfizer vaccine could get a green light after a meeting next week. >> no one at fda is sitting on his hands or her hands. everybody's working really hard to look at these applications and get this done. >> reporter: once the fda says yes, the states have to make tough decisions. california, for example, will get about 327,000 doses in the
next few weeks. but there are more than 2.4 million californians who work in health care. in the city of chicago, about 25,000 doses are already dedicated. >> we have plans that will start with all 37 chicago hospitals and we have plans for all 128 long-term care facilities. >> reporter: next in line as more vaccine becomes available? about 87 million essential u.s. workers like police officers, teachers and grocery store workers. >> this is going to be a herculean effort. let's get to steve osunsami, with us live from the cdc. because there's news on another front tonight. the cdc out with new guidance tonight, planning to shorten the recommended quarantine time for people who believe they've been exposed to others with the virus? >> reporter: that's right, david. the cdc briefed the white house on this today, so, this is becoming real. currently, if you are exposed to someone who is infected with the
coronavirus, you are expected to quarantine for 14 days. what they're changing it to is this -- if you can get a negative test, that quarantine would become seven days. without one, ten days. the idea behind this is that 14 days is too restrictive for most americans and that seven or ten days is much more realistic. david? >> steve osunsami leading us off tonight. steve, thank you. and tonight here, the scene from inside hospitals across this country. in new york city, icus are now two-thirds full. they're calling for those retired nurses and doctors. so many have returned already. tonight, one doctor back now for a second time. and the icu nurse dying at the same hospital where he worked for 25 years. here's our chief national affairs correspondent tom llamas tonight. >> reporter: tonight, as cases surge, new york issuing new warnings, calling for help and fearing a return to the early and dire days of this pandemic. in new york city, hospitalizations more than doubling over the past three weeks -- the highest since june. and the mayor asking older adults and people with underlying health conditions to
limit activities outside the home, to only travel for work, school or essential purposes. >> we need you. we need you if you're older, you have pre-existing conditions, to take additional precautions. >> reporter: the city also asking for people to donate blood, as icus are two-thirds full. and new york governor andrew cuomo calling on retired health care workers to return to the front lines. dr. anne sacks-berg coming out of retirement for a second time to pitch in. >> i wish that this -- we would recognize that we're all in this boat together. some people die of this. and we really need to take care of each other. >> reporter: across the country tonight, the u.s. nearing another terrible milestone -- 100,000 people in the hospital with covid-19. and health care workers bracing for that nightmare scenario, a surge upon a surge. >> we're all very tired.
i'm very tired. >> we're preparing for the worst. >> it doesn't get easier. >> reporter: in reno, nevada, dr. jacob keeperman posting this photo, saying he'd seen five deaths in the previous 32 hours. >> we at some point might get to a breaking point. >> reporter: and still, some medical workers are paying the ultimate price. gary woodward worked as an icu nurse in nashville for 25 years. >> he had a passion for caring for his patients. >> reporter: woodward dying saturday at the same hospital he worked for for so long. >> his family was his all. everything we did, we did together as a family. and he was our rock. and that rock is gone. >> we're thinking about all these families and that dedicated nurse. let's get right to tom, back with us tonight. and tom, i know there's a new study out tonight, finding that the virus might have been here in the u.s. many weeks earlier than thought, as early as mid-december last year and i know they looked at blood
donations collected by the american red cross, they found antibodies for covid-19? >> reporter: david, yet another study showing the coronavirus was spreading around the word, even here in the united states, before public health officials knew something was wrong. this study, as you mentioned, from the cdc, showing americans had the coronavirus in mid-december of 2019. and some of the state s where they found it may surprise our viewers. places like michigan, iowa and wisconsin. david? >> yeah that was really interesting, because that was not where we saw the initial spikes. tom, thank you for that. we're going to turn next here this evening to president trump and the election and the attorney general, who has so often been on the president's side, declaring today that the justice department has found no evidence of widespread voting fraud. he then went to the white house. and here's our chief white house correspondent jonathan karl. >> reporter: attorney general bill barr arrived at the white house today just minutes after declaring he has found no evidence of widespread voter fraud, directly contradicting the president's claims that the election was stolen. >> we know there was massive
fraud. >> reporter: but barr told the associated press today, quote, "we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election." he specifically shot down one of the president's most explosive claims, that voting machines were manipulated to help biden win. saying simply, "we haven't seen anything to substantiate that." this is especially significant, because barr has been among the president's most steadfast defenders. shortly after the election, he authorized justice department lawyers to go look for fraud, but they found nothing. the president recently implied that doj itself was involved in some kind of sinister plot. >> this is total fraud, and how the fbi and department of justice, i don't know, maybe they're involved. >> reporter: for attorney general barr, this was just too much. as he told the a.p., "there's a growing tendency to use the criminal justice system as a sort of default fix-all, and people don't like something, they want the department of
justice to come in and investigate." all this comes as the president's lawyers are traveling the country making unfounded claims of election fraud. >> it's disgraceful what happened. >> reporter: the lawyers and the president himself have attacked local republican officials who have certified the election results. some of those officials now facing death threats. today, a republican official in the office of georgia's secretary of state is pleading with the president to stop. >> stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. someone's going to get hurt. someone's going to get shot. someone's going to get killed. >> that was quite a moment today. jon karl with us live from washington. and jon, we saw the president's lawyer rudy giuliani in your report there. we know that several giuliani associates are under federal indictment, and tonight you're learning that giuliani has asked the president for a preemptive pardon? and i know you're aware, there's also talk among trump allies of potential pardons for members of the trump family? >> reporter: david, we are told by multiple sources that giuliani in recent weeks has directly brought up with the
president the possibility of getting a preemptive pardon for himself. we are also aware of conversations among trump allies about pardons for the president's adult children, but so far, no word yet from the president on any of this. >> and in the meantime, jon, you've reported here after the election, the president and his team sending those emails, asking supporters to donate money with subject lines like "we're making huge progress" and "the pathway to victory is clear." and i know tonight you're learning how much the president has raised and where is this money going? >> reporter: yeah, read the fine print. most of it is not going to the president's legal defense fund. it's going to the republican national committee and to the political organization the president has set up to handle his activities after he leaves the white house. we are told they have raised, david, $170 million since the election. >> all right, jon karl with us here on a tuesday night. jon, thank you. and news tonight for the millions of americans struggling to make ends meet during this pandemic. president-elect joe biden formally introducing his new economic team, telling americans struggling that help is on the
way. here's mary bruce. >> reporter: today in miami, hundreds lining up to get help buying groceries, as the pandemic devastates the nation's economy. president-elect joe biden today speaking directly to these suffering americans. >> our message to everybody struggling right now is this -- help is on the way. >> reporter: biden today introducing the team that he says will rebuild the economy. former fed chair janet yellen, his pick for treasury secretary. >> it's an american tragedy and it's essential that we move with urgency. >> reporter: the scope of the economic crisis is massive. more than 50 million americans could go hungry this year. nearly 7 million are at risk of eviction. and more than 20 million are now on unemployment. one of them, 60-year-old diana adelmo of san antonio, texas, who was laid off. >> i feel just scared. i want to stay positive and think, oh maybe, you know, something will come. but i don't know at this point. i don't know.
>> reporter: biden imploring congress to act now. >> the full congress should come together and pass a robust package for relief. >> you heard what joe biden said there today, the president-elect. mary bruce live in washington. and today we noted somewhat of a rare moment, a bipartisan group of senators actually presenting a compromise plan for relief. so, give us a reality check, though. where do things stand at this point, mary? >> reporter: well, david, this bipartisan group of senators is certainly trying to up the pressure, but the reality is that the two sides still remain far apart on the details. this compromise bill, for instance, would not include another round of stimulus checks for all americans. even republican leader mitch mcconnell today admitted that even if they do get something done, the biden administration will likely want to do more. for the first time, david, mcconnell acknowledging that biden will, indeed, be the next president. david? >> mary bruce, our thanks to you as well, tonight. winter is already here in much of the east tonight and the great lakes. heavy snow, in fact, in the eastern great lakes. a travel nightmare in cleveland. up to a foot of snow and there's
more on the way. and now temperatures are plunging from the northeast all the way to the deep south. let's get right to chief meteorologist ginger zee tracking it for us again tonight. hey, ginger. >> reporter: hey, david. yes, that foot of snow in south thompson, ohio, just northwest of cleveland. that would be one thing, just for the roads alone, but there are folks without power as this bitter chill settles in. the winter storm warnings still extend all the way into west virginia. we've got pennsylvania, including erie and western new york, that are going to get blasted here tonight through tomorrow morning. as i track it for you, you see it's really after noon tomorrow that you start to see some clearing along the lakes. but then it moves into new england. with it comes 30 to 40-mile-per-hour gusts and we've got freeze warnings about far south as ocala, florida. david? >> but a little less windy at your live location tonight. ginger zee, our thanks to you again. when we come back here on a tuesday night, the manhunt in the northeast. several attacks. and what the police chief is now saying tonight. in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people.
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apparently random attacks. police releasing this surveillance tonight of a possible suspect. at least ten men have been injured in three weeks. all after sundown. one victim showing facture injuries to his face there. authorities say the motive may be, quote, the thrill of the assault. they are asking for the public's help tonight. when we come back here this evening, we hear from the man saved at sea, clinging to that submerged boat. an incredible feat. o that submerged boat. an incredible feat. by getting vaccinated. if you're 65 or older, get the superior flu protection of fluzone high-dose quadrivalent. it's the only 65+ flu vaccine with four times the standard dose. and it's free with medicare part b. fluzone high-dose quadrivalent isn't for people who've had a severe allergic reaction to any flu vaccine or vaccine component, including eggs or egg products. tell your health care professional if you've ever experienced severe muscle weakness after receiving a flu shot. people with weakened immune systems,
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on it with jardiance. we are committed to making jardiance available and affordable. with our savings card, eligible patients pay as little as $0. can you tell me the story again? every family has their own unique story. give your family the chance to discover theirs this holiday season, with ancestry. to to the index of other news tonight and that missing boater rescued at sea, now back on dry land. stuart bee spending hours clinging to his boat, it had capsized. he was found 86 miles off the florida coast. he described the moment flagging
down the container ship that rescued him, docking today in delaware. >> i took my shirt off, waved that several times, waited, waved it several times and i continued to do that until about 45 minutes later, the boat was close enough. >> he called members of the crew "the nicest guys ever." i'll say. and we take note tonight of world aids day. so many around the world of course remembering the lives lost to hiv/aids. roughly 1.2 million americans currently living with hiv. president-elect joe biden and his wife jill today saying the coronavirus is a reminder that, quote, we cannot let up in our efforts to fight other epidemics. and it was 65 years ago today, december 1st, 1955, rosa parks was arrested after refusing to give up her seat to a white passenger on a city bus in montgomery, alabama. her act of civil disobedience would help propel is several rights moment and she later reflected on it, saying, "i did not get on the bus to get arrested, i got on the bus to go home."
when we come back here tonight, you will love the small acts of kindness uncovered today. the surprise in the front yard. today. the surprise in the front yard. e crohn's disease. until i realized something was missing me. you okay, sis? my symptoms were keeping me from really being there for my sisters. so i talked to my doctor and learned that's us. (reacting to boarding announcement) humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. and many achieved remission that can last. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, ...have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira.
with humira, remission is possible. a livcustomizeper iquickbooks for me. okay, you're all set up. thanks! that was my business gi, this one's casual. get set up right with a live bookkeeper with intuit quickbooks. the americans who drive our trucks and ambulances, who put fear aside and run toward the flames. these are the people we depend on. that's why at the ford motor company, our super dutys have undergone 20 million miles of testing. so that these people can depend on us. ♪ so are we. prudential helps 1 in 7 americans with their financial needs. that's over 25 million people. with over 90 years of investment experience,
our thousands of financial professionals can help with secure video chat or on the phone. we make it easy for you with online tools, e-signatures, and no-medical-exam life insurance. plan for better days. go to prudential.com or talk to an advisor. than rheumatoid arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz... a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough. xeljanz can help relieve joint pain and swelling, stiffness, and helps stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose
of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious allergic reactions have happened. don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about the pill first prescribed for ra more than seven years ago. xeljanz. finally tonight here, america strong. after so much spending on black friday and cyber monday, thank goodness for giving tuesday. tonight, on this giving tuesday, the simple acts of kindness. in west harrison, indiana, 11-year-old elijah maines loves basketball. a fedex delivery driver noticed the basketball hoop had been
broken for some time. and she decided to surprise him. a new basketball and a new hoop. writing this message to his family -- "just wanted you and your son to have the best hoop that'll grow with him and all of his friends. it's wonderful that you guys shoot hoops with him." signing it, "just one of the fedex drivers for the area, aubrey." tonight, elijah right here. >> hi david. >> with his new basketball and new hoop. >> i'm very thankful for my new basketball hoop and my basketball. i use it a lot. >> and his thank you. >> i really want to thank aubrey as much as i can. she's the world to me. >> he takes the shot -- it's good. there are so many ways to help, large and small. we've been tracking feeding america. >> unfortunately, the food crisis persists. in those long lines at food banks are families in crisis. >> tonight, feeding america telling us so many of you have responded. donations pouring in. and another group, give essential, helping to connect donors to front line workers.
>> hi, david. >> this nurse in chicago grateful. >> i received a wonderful package from a donor in california. >> and in manchester, new hampshire, a mother of three, brandy bison, deciding to pay for a stranger's groceries. >> she was crying and she said, "thank you so much, you don't understand what this means to me." >> brandy did it again and again and again. >> we've been on both ends of the spectrum, so to speak, and it's not a good feeling when you don't know where you're going to get food for your kids. >> what a powerful lesson for her little boys. the small acts of kindness all over this country. thank you for watching here tonight. and for giving. i'll see you tomorrow. good night.
schooling, shopping and non-essentials shut down in march as coronavirus cases rise, could we see the sail restrictions return? >> san francisco, we've beaten back two surges and again, we need to beat back this third surge. >> brace yourself, san francisco said it will tighten restrictions by the end of the week. >> our mission is to create and support one to one mentoring relationships that ignite the promise of power ship of youth. >> spencer christian knows it firsthand, he is going to share his story working with big brothers, big cyst ever sistcys this day of giving. this is about saving lives. everything weaver a're asking y do over the coming days and weeks is saving lives. >> the stakes couldn't be higher and each of us could turn out to be a hero. good ervening.
the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. >> hi, yen. thanks very much. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you're here for it. we're going to start a ways back as we sometimes do. when allied soldiers came ashore on the coast of france on the beaches of normandy for the d-day invasion, they opened up a new western front against the nazis in europe. and that of course was a shock to the germans. the operation overlord, the d-day invasion, it relied on the element of surprise. and the germans really were shocked. they had been occupying france for four years at that point. they the installed a collaborationest regime that they assembled from pro-fascist and pro-nazi forces inside france, so the collaborationists and the nazis together were ruling france and they had been for years. there was a french resistance to the nazi rule and the collaborationists, but the nazis and their puppets were definitely in charge. they were actually heading into year five of being in charge. they were really settled in, in france. and then here comes this shock arrival. this invasion. hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions of allied troops landing on the beaches and the cliffs of the northwest of france. and they are clearly planning to take it all back. the d-day invasion, the allied invasion, started on june 6th. now, on this date, on june 10th, 1944, just four days into the d-day invasion, the germans were reacting. they had been, of course, shocked by the initial invasion. but a few days into it, they now realized the scale of what they were up against and had started scrambling their units from all over france, turning all the available german troops in france toward the northwest of that country to try to stop the allied advance. and that included a nazi ss panzer division that had been in the south of franz. that division was ordered to essentially traverse the whole length of the country, head north to where the allies were advancing from the beaches of normandy. and on their way north through france, toward the new allied front lines, the new western front, this panzer division stopped in a village called oradour. pro-nazi french collaborators had told them, they told this panzer unit that the french resistance was active in this town. and they told them that the french resistance in that town had killed a nazi officer. and in response, that panzer unit decided, yes, they were on their way to the north of france to join the new western front and the, you know, the battle for the whole war, to try to shore up the german lines against the big allied invasion, but they decided on their way there, they would stop and do something in oradour. they would destroy that entire village and everyone in it. that panzer unit rounded up every single man, woman, and child in that village. they even rounded up random people who didn't live in the village but were nearby or who had the misfortune to be passing through the village when this nazi unit made this decision. that nazi unit killed every human being in oradour. or everyone they could find. they killed 643 civilians. a vast majority of them women and children. they used machine guns and they burned them alive. they looted the entire village, and then they tore down the village as best they could. they razed it. oradour. this is what it looks like today. still in ruins. the french decided after the war that they would never rebuild. they would leave the ruins, preserve them as they were left at the end of the war, as a memorial to what the nazis did. and we have these photos of what oradour looks like literally today, because this morning, the president of france and the president of germany visited the ruins at oradour to commemorate what they call the martyrdom of that village, to remember what happened in europe, in france, under fascist occupation. now, this is not the first time that french president emmanuel macron has visited oradour. actually, ten days before he was first elected president, he went there. he visited the village just before he was elected president. he visited in the company of the man who was then the last living survivor of that massacre. i said the nazis killed everyone in the village, at least everyone they could find. the nazis did kill over 600 civilians that day, but there were about half a dozen people from the village who, against all odds, in a miracle managed by hook or by crook to survive. the last one of the survivors was in his 90s when he brought emmanuel macron to oradour in 2017. that last survivor has since died. but today, macron went back to the site, to show this place, to germany's president. now, in 1944, about six months after oradour happened, the germans were still hanging on. but thanks in large part to the d-day invasion, they knew by the end of 1944 that they were losing. they were losing to soviet forces in the east, for sure. they were also simultaneously losing to the allied forces coming in from the west. once the allies opened that new western front with the d-day invasion, they started pressing their advantage against the nazis everywhere. not only liberating france, they clearly intend to liberate everywhere the nazis have taken over. they're pressing toward germany itself. hitler knows that his military is on the ropes. it cannot sustain the losses they're taking on both the eastern and western fronts. and so about six months after d-day, about six months after oradour, hitler decides he's going to mount a surprise of his own. he decides he's going to mount a huge german counteroffensive in belgium against the allies. the allies are basically closing in on germany's own borders and when hitler musters hundreds of thousands of men to mount a counteroffensive against them in the forests of belgium, it absolutely is a surprise to the allies. nobody thought germany still had it in them. everybody thought -- not everybody, but a lot of people thought the war was going to be over by christmas that year. where did the germans muster 400,000, 500,000 men to mount this new counteroffensive, but they did. that german counteroffensive started in mid-december 1944. it began a six-week-long battle that would be the single deadliest battle of the entire war for the u.s. military. aside from just the brutal toll of that battle, that was the battle of the bulge, that battle also came with its own astonishing and unforgettable atrocity. it was another german panzer unit much like the one that killed the entire population of that french village. it was an ss panzer unit in belgium. and they ended up in the very outset of that surprise german counteroffensive, they ended up ambushing a bunch of americans. and the result of it was they took custody of a large group of american prisoners of war, unarmed american p.o.w.s. and these p.o.w.s, again, they had surrendered. they had no weapons. the nazis lined up those americans in a field, the americans have no weapons. they have surrendered. they have their hands above their heads. they're p.o.w.s, but the nazis just massacred them in the field, they mowed them down with machine gun fire. and like at that village of oradour, what is almost as unbelievable as what the nazis did there was the fact there were somehow miraculously some survivors. there were some american gis who had also been lined up in that field, who nevertheless lived. american gis who played dead, who hid under the dead bodies of their comrades, who managed in the end to drag themselves into the woods to get away. and what happened to them? you will not believe me when i tell you this, but it would not be long before a sitting united states senator would vehemently object to those men giving testimony about what they saw. about what they survived, about what happened to their platoon mates, to the other men in that battalion. the other p.o.w.s who were massacred by those nazis. a sitting u.s. senator tried to block the american soldiers who survived that massacre from giving testimony about it in congress. he said the american people shouldn't hear it. he said it would be inflammatory. it would inflame the public against the nazis who killed all of those unarmed american p.o.w.s. i find it absolutely insane to think about, but this became a very strange thing in american domestic politics. i mean, there were unrepentant leftover nazis in germany after the war. they were trying to make the allies and america in particular the bad guys from world war ii and maybe that is understandable when you think about unrepentant nazis who just lost the war, but you would not believe it, the thing that's amazing is not that there were leftover nazis who were trying to do this. the thing you wouldn't believe is they enlisted a lot of americans to help them in that project. including taking a stand against the american soldiers who survived that p.o.w. massacre and demanding that the nazis who did it should be set free. this became a cause celebre in the right wing press at the time. and it helped launch the national career, the rocketship ascendance of arguably the most radical and controversial figure in republican electoral politics in the last 80 years before donald trump. while he was swimming in these very dark waters, darker than what seems possible for something in mainstream american politics he would go on to lead a movement of millions of followers who were increasingly radicalized by his increasingly radical rhetoric and tactics over time. his fellow republicans were both repelled by him, horrified by him, while they also wanted in on some of the massive political energy and fanatical devotion he attracted. they thought very seriously about putting him forward for the presidency, and the reaction among close observers of him and his tactics look so much like what you're seeing in the american press today about the fear of a second trump term, you wouldn't believe that it isn't just a straight up rerun. in his time, the people who stood up against him mostly got mowed down in politics by the strength of his fanatical following. that happened for a very long time. until eventually, ultimately, it stopped happening. and the forces against him prevailed. and i'm telling you this for two reasons. number one, this is the thing that i have been working on for the past year. my podcast, rachel maddow presents ultra, now has a season two, and it is out today. episode one is out today. you can get it anywhere you get podcasts. if you don't usually listen to podcasts, if you take out your phone right now, open the camera on your phone, and point it at that weird looking little circular square thing on your screen, you click on the little box that pops up on your phone, it will bring you right there so you can listen to it. you can listen to it for free. it's free to listen to. there are eight episodes of this all together. episode one is out today. i hope you may want to listen. i have been working really hard on it. i'm really proud of it, but i hope you like it. i hope you'll check it out. that's one of the easons i'm telling you this story. i have been working on this story, i have been working in general on stories about other times in our american history that we have dealt with really terrible threats to the country. where we have confronted really radical people with really radical designs to undo the fundamental things that make us who we are as a country who nevertheless get into political power and attract large followings. this has happened to us before. and the reason i have been working on this for the past couple years, the reason i have been working on these projects is because for me, i feel like i really need to learn this stuff and fast, for me, there is a real urgency to learn these stories now. from when we have contended with terrible challenges before, particularly when we're talking about powerful americans advocating for authoritarianism or just flat out embodying it. particularly when it's about selling factually unhinged conspiratorial lies to the american public and half the public is mortified, mystified by that, but the other half of the public is super energized by it and they not only believe these lies, they kind of become their whole new reason to live. the public gets bifurcated like that into earth one and earth two where some people are based in the reality based community and some people are based in a different place, and that place is emotionally satisfying to them, and radicalizing them, and it takes over their lives. we are living through a moment like that right now with what is ascendant on the american right, but we have lived through it before. and i feel like i'm racing to learn these stories about americans who have fought these kinds of fights before us for the simple reason that i feel like i need their ideas about how to fight it. we need their ideas about how to fight these things. we need to see what worked and what didn't when americans faced threats like this before. and it doesn't mean that fighting them always works. sometimes they get away with a lot of this stuff, and sometimes people take on incredible risk and danger to themselves. sometimes people risk their lives or give up their lives to fight these things, but knowing the track record of americans who have stood up against these kinds of dark and authoritarian and anti-democratic forces knowing who else has tried it and what's happened to them is helpful for us calibrating our available responses now. and knowing what to expect when we confront these dark movements. so that is why i have been working on this, and that is why that story is on my mind tonight. but it is also what's on the news right now. i mean, one of the remarkable things about seeing the french president with the german president at the ruins of oradour today in france is that they took that tour of the ruins of that village today, that preserved memorial to what fascism did in europe, they took that tour this morning. just one day after the german far right and the french far right won shockingly large proportions of the vote in the european elections that were held yesterday. in both of those countries, the parties that did so well have ties not only to the old fascist participaties of world war ii era germany and france, they both have current ties, including financial ties, to vladimir putin and russia. when president biden and president macron of france met in france these past few days for the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day, president biden said that he and president macron agreed on a new plan to seize russian assets in the g-7 countries and use those seized russian assets to provide even more support to ukraine. as ukraine continues to struggle against the russian invasion of that country. president biden is just back from france for these d-day commemoration ceremonies and from those meetings with president macron. he's just back but heads back to europe the day after tomorrow to go to the g-sev summit, among other things to rally the other nations to support this new plan, to support ukraine as much as possible including this new plan that he and macron have just agreed to involving seizing russian assets to help ukraine even more. and, you know, in the american aperture here, what's going on in our politics while president biden is trying to, you know, rally the free world, trying to strengthen our alliances as much as possible to lead collective international will against a rogue dictatorship that has invaded one big european country already and has its sights set on more, here at home, literally while president biden and other american leaders were headed off to europe for the 80th anniversary of d-day, while they were heading off to europe for that, what was happening in the american congress? a fifth of the republicans in congress just voted that we should leave our allies altogether. that we should break up the big western alliance, that we should defund nato. and i think nobody really paid attention to this vote because this legislation was put forward by a very fringe member of congress, a member of congress who is known for her publicity stunts and she's therefore -- she is easy to ignore. but it wasn't just her. 46 republicans voted for this thing. a fifth of the republicans in congress last week voted to defund nato. don't just forget being the leader of the free world, forget the whole idea of there being a free world at all. they saved that for the anniversary of d-day. 46 republicans voting to defund nato. and as radical as that may seem, particularly when you think about where nato came from and why, the wing of the republican party that is pushing for this stuff, i mean, on its face, it seems unlikely they would have such sway. every few days we get a new mugshot of one of their leading lights because so many of them have been charged with crimes. today, it was their presidential candidate's personal lawyer, who has had his law license suspended, who is under indictment, rudy giuliani's mugshot just released today after he was arraigned in arizona. you can put it up on the wall with all of the other maga republican mugshots we have accrued over the past year. their presidential candidate is a convicted felon. today he had to meet with the probation office in new york ahead of his sentences. people at his rallies not only wear tshirts and fly flags that have his mugshot on them, they started carrying signs and wearing shirts that now say they're proudly voting for the convicted felon. at a rally this weekend, their presidential candidate described members of the mob of his supporters who physically attacked congress and injured dozens of police officers, he described them in a speech this weekend as, quote, warriors. his warriors. people who took part in that mob attack on congress. his warriors. while a few days ago, two police officers who were both badly injured fighting hand to hand with that mob to defend congress, to defend the u.s. capitol, those two police officers were jeered and booed by republicans in the pennsylvania state legislature. they jeered them, turned their backs on them and walked out. these are two officers who survived that attack, they were literally injured fighting for their country, defending our seat of government against a violent attack. but the republicans who jeered at them and turned their backs on them and walked out, they want the attackers freed. and they don't want to hear what these survivors of the attack had to say. don't want to hear from the survivors and the witnesses. you want the attackers set free. we are going through some weird stuff right now. but we have gone through weird stuff before. and i do think that we can learn from it and that we urgently need to. that's why i have been working on all these projects. that's why i've got this new podcast out and i hope you listen. but it's not just the distant past. in the very recent past when we got donald trump in the white house in the first place, you might remember what preceded that shock election result here in the united states in 2016. our shock presidential election result in 2016 was preceded that year by some shocking and surprisingly right wing election results in europe. including the brexit vote in britain which happened just months before trump's surprise presidential victory here. i asked ben rhodes to please join us here tonight in the wake of what is now, again, another round of what seemed to be surprisingly right wing election results in europe this weekend. was it right in 2016 to see right wing election results in europe as a harbinger of what was coming for us in the fall of 2016? as president biden balances his campaign responsibilities right now with back-to-back trips to europe, he just got back from europe, he heads back to europe again on wednesday. do the election results from europe right now, this weekend, have hallmarks that tell us anything about what to expect here and about how weird this is all going to get? president biden clearly sees our connections to europe right now as absolutely key to the future of the world. does what's going on in european politics right now tell us something to expect about the future of our world here? joining us now is ben rhodes. he's former deputy national security adviser to president obama, cohost of the pod save the world podcast. really great to see you. thanks for making time to be here tonight. >> good to see you. >> first, let me ask you for some of our viewers who may not have paid close attention to what was happening in the european elections this weekend, let me ask you two questions about them. do you think they're important for us to pay attention to? and can you just give us a rough characterization of what happened in those elections? >> sure. these were elections for the european parliament. so the european union wide parliament, so the only election that takes place every few years in which all of europe votes. it's a good barometer of where opinion is in europe. the two headlines are the far right made noticeable gains in the two largest countries in europe, france and germany. in france, the national front party, the far right party that used to be on the fringes of french politics, emerged as by far the largest vote getter in this election and to build on what you're saying, this is a party that is not only far right, they have ties to russia. they have gotten a $10 million loan from russia in the past decade. in germany, the afd party, which has ties that go back into the kind of neonazi past of germany, they got over 15% of the vote, not a huge total, but very alarming given the source here. i want to be clear, in other parts of europe, the center did hold. i think the real concerning factor is in the two most important countries, france and germany, we saw these far right gains. >> do you think that it's right to look back at 2016 and see some of what was going on in politics in europe as a harbinger for the shock election result we got in the fall of 2016 when trump won? do you think these election results should be read as a harbinger of what's coming down the pike for us this year? >> i absolutely do, rachel. the commonality between the brexit vote, the vote by the uk to leave the european union in 2016 and the trump election was that it was a -- it was a surprise. people did not think brexit was going to win the campaign and they campaigned on a kind of right wing populist message. the slogan was take back control. they ran against globalists and liberal elites and against immigration and was very trumpy in its message, frankly. it kind of foreshadowed what we ended up dealing with in the fall here. i think the warning in this election, and you ask mead a question when i came on to talk about my book a few years ago about far right parties and their commonalities around the world, you asked what lesson should we learn. i always think about that. the lesson i take from this one is that their incumbent parties in germany and france that have defended essentially the status quo, emmanuel macron has been a defender of the european union. olaf scholz has been a defender of the liberal order. people are not listening to that message right now. you cannot defeat these parties, these populist insurgents be being the defenderoffs the stat status quo, but you have to tap into people's dissatisfaction with globalization, dissatisfaction with inequality. sense that things are slipping out of control. it's not enough to say we're the responsible adults here. you have to kind of get down and have a different message for how things are going to change. i think that's the warning sign that joe biden should hear, not enough to run on status quo here. not enough to defend even the things we think are very important. you have to meet people where they are, and people are frustrated. >> ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to president obama. ben, thank you for making the time. i feel like when we need to like widen the lens a lot and look at america in the world, you're almost always one of the first people i think of. thank you for being here. >> thanks, rachel. i can't wait to check out the podcast. >> i appreciate it. thank you. we have much more ahead here tonight. do stay with us. shop etsy for thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find items that add wow to walls and make you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind pieces to refresh your home... etsy has it. sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to 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( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. nitty-gritty here. in the aftermact of the 2020 election, georgia became this kind of benchmark for principled republicans refusing to go along with improper, un-american machinations from president trump. governor brian kemp, brad raffensperger, two very conservative republicans, both nevertheless stood up to personal pressure from trump to overturn president biden's win in georgia. and of course, all that pressure trump brought to bear on georgia republicans and the ways in which those republicans resisted, that formed the basis for fulton county district attorney fani willis filing a huge rico case against trump and 18 of his codefendants in georgia. that's one story of the state of georgia after the 2020 election. republicans standing up, the record of them standing up and what they had to stand up against forming the basis for this sprawling, damning criminal indictment. the other story of georgia since that election is all the work that pro-trump republicans have done to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. to make sure nobody can ever again get in the way of trump seizing georgia's 16 electoral votes, no matter what the votes say. the most obvious thing georgia republicans have done is use every tool at their disposal to derail fani willis' prosecution of trump. in the latest development in that three republican appointed judges have just put the whole case on hold while they take their time considering whether fani willis should be disqualified from the case. thus guaranteeing that the georgia prosecution will definitely not go forward against trump before the election. but that's only the start. in georgia's most populous county, fulton county, one republican elections board member last month refused to certify the primary results there. because you know, elections are scary. with the help of lawyers from a pro-trump think tank, she has now filed a lawsuit seeking the power to block the certification of elections which would of course throw november's results in georgia into chaos. which is presumably the point. meanwhile, just north of fulton county, republicans recently started agitating to take over an elections board in cherokee county. now, the board there, like other counties in georgia, has always been evenly split between democrats and republicans, but republicans in cherokee county are no longer okay with that. they wanted a full scale republican takeover, when that was blocked, they comp with an ingenious new plan. they decided they would replace one of the democratic commissioners who had been nominated with their own choice. their own choice for a democrat. a new guy that none of the local democrats have ever heard of. but don't worry, the republicans who run cherokee county swear this guy they picked is definitely a democrat. the atlanta journal constitution reported that the republican cherokee county commission chairman, quote, assured the board that the new member is a democrat, even if the local democratic party is unfamiliar with him. i assure you, he's definitely on your team. i know you have never met and i picked him, but trust me. pinky promise. meanwhile, at the state elections board in georgia, republicans there just started writing a new rule that would allow county elections boards to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry before they certify any election results. so instead of signing off on election results as county election boards are now required to do by law, they would be empowered instead to investigate those results as they see fit. the journal constitution notes that, quote, the proposed rule doesn't say what a reasonable inquiry would entail before certifying an election. yeah, why would you specify that? you want every election denying republican county elections board member in georgia just making it up as they go along, calling their own behavior reasonable. while the presidential election potentially hangs in the balance. speaking of that state elections board, one of its republican members was ousted last month, one of its republican members was ousted, after trump reportedly spent months calling georgia republicans insisting that that election board member had to go. because that person was not backing trump's lies about the 2020 election. and so of course, the guy had to go. trump's personal involvement in remaking the georgia state elections board is just one of the revelations in new reporting from rolling stone. their new piece is headlined georgia is our laboratory. inside trump's plan to rig 2024. it details how trump's allies are working to make sure there will not be a straightforward election result in georgia this year, given georgia's swing state status that absolutely could be a deciding factor in how the election is going to go down. what is happening there? what is happening to try to stop what is happening there? one of the reporters on that rolling stone piece joins us next. stay with us. ay with us ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ we're trying to save the planet with nuggets. empower families across the globe. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. your best defense against erosion and cavitieseat. is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. love you. have a good day, behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you'll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. nobody wants that for their children. like if these programs didn't exist me and aj, we wouldn't probably get lunch at all. please call or go online right now with your gift of just $19 a month. and when you use your credit card, you'll receive this limited edition t-shirt to show you're part of the team that's helping feed kids and change lives. if you're coming in hungry, there's no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. so starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. kids need you now more than ever. so please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry.org and help feed hungry kids today. . the ultimate authority is the voter. the secretary of state was re-elected by the voters of the state by a larger margin than any other -- excuse me. >> order. order. >> by a larger margin than any other state-wide office. the voters -- >> order. >> -- have demonstrated their faith and therefore i do not believe that at present, we have the authority to oversee or investigate the secretary of state. >> georgia's board of elections gathered to discuss larging an investigation into georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger who had the chimerty to say no when donald trump insisted he flip the results of the election. the lone democrat spoke out against doing this unprecedented investigation. she was loudly shouted down. in a new article titled georgia is our laboratory, inside trump's plan to rig 2024, rolling stone reports this. quote, the former president and his supporters have been making concrete step by step progress in shaping electoral processes to his benefit. across the state, maga die hards are devoting considerable resources to purging voting rolls, intimidating election officials, employing dirty tricks and ousting appointees who haven't been initiated into the cult of trump. it's the state where the republican party has total control over the levers of power. trump loving elements of the georgia gop have wielded that advantage in a crusade to turn election conspiracy theories into policies. it's an alarmingly anti-democratic experiment that trump planned and much of the republican party hope to take national. joining us now is adam ronsly, the reporter co-by-lines on the sprawling piece. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> so what are some of the steps that trump and his allies have taken to change the electoral process in georgia? >> so one of the most alarming ones that a source who has discussed this issue with trump told us, a republican attorney, is they're planning to challenge the election result regardless of the result. you know, we think of the threat to elections from trump's behavior in 2020 as only occurring in the event that trump loses. you know, at the current state of polling, trump is ahead in georgia, if you believe the polling, but what republican attorney who discussed this with trump told us is that, quote, you can't let the left get away with this cheating just because it didn't succeed, air quotes around cheating. and the plan is to challenge the result regardless of the outcome. and the intent behind that is essentially a permanent delegitimization of the election process. it's heads, i win, tails you lose. and i think you had mentioned this a little bit in your intro, is that one of the things people should be paying close attention to is that refusal to certify in the fulton county board of elections -- in the presidential primary. because one of the things that's very, very notable about that is that the attorneys who filed that lawsuit work for america first policies institute, which is a very trumpy organization filled with former trump folks. and what you see in those kinds of processes is the legal january 6th in miniature. essentially you're taking someone who is, you know, acting beyond their brief and trying to essentially insert themselves into the counting and, you know, assessment of vote tallies. >> adam, is this actually a fight in georgia? you note, i think, importantly, that georgia's a place where republicans control all of the levers of power. we just played the sound of one democratic member of the state elections board getting shouted down when she objected to what they were trying to do in terms of targeting raffensperger. is this fight joint where there is pushback against what they're doing or are they essentially running the table by changing processes to their own benefit? >> you know, they definitely have quite a built-in advantage. and i think that's why georgia relative to other battleground states is particularly interesting because it is more so than perhaps any other state a fight for the soul of the republican party. particularly when it comes to their faith in free and fair elections. and yeah, even folks like brian kemp, who was an absolute obstacle to trump's attempt to, you know, illegally overturn the election in georgia, brian kemp signed sb-202, a law that allows for a range of, you know, sort of procedural chicanery. joe biden called it jim crow in the 21st century. you know, even folks who have proven themselves to be obstacles to some of the more overt aspects of it sometimes will just go along to get along. and so they definitely do have an advantage. and they are running the table in certain ways, but you do see folks like you mentioned earlier, like ed lindsay, whose resignation letter we obtained in the story. people like that, you still do have these kind of principled republicans who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, but as you saw with the case of ed, you know, he had to resign under a great deal of pressure from not just president trump but from the grassroots of the party who believe in a lot of election conspiracies. >> yeah, the bare fact that a presidential candidate is personally lobbying to remove individual state elections board members ought to be on the front page of every paper of the country. been reported by adam, reporter at rolling stone. adam, the by-line reporters on the piece, georgia is our laboratory, thank you for helping us understand this. love to have you back. >> thanks so much for having me, rachel. >> i appreciate it. we'll be right back. stay with us. time stops. 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(♪♪) gain flings. seriously good scent. let's get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it's the martha stewart of soil. to give your teeth a dentist clean feeling. start with a round brush head. add power. and you've got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we've got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. could have been the heat, i suppose. temperatures were over 100 degrees at his outdoor campaign rally in las vegas yesterday. so hot, six people had to go to the hospital, and another two dozen had to get medical treatment on site. could have been the heat, i suppose. could also maybe have been that he was nervous about the fact that he was less than 24 hours away from his first meeting with his new york state probation officer. that meeting could be particularly nerve-racking for him because, you know, one of the things a probation officer asks you after you're convicted of felonies is if you have been associating with anyone who has a criminal record. that's worth noting because if he is ultimately sentenced to probation next month while he's on probation, he would not be allowed to associate with anyone with a criminal record. for a lot of people, that wouldn't be a big deal. for him, that's a big deal. that particular restriction eats away at his very close social circle. so maybe that was all distracting him. i don't know. he maybe had a lot -- i don't know. whatever the reason, he decided to venture into new territory in his campaign speech yesterday, less than five months out from the election. this is an important swing state. he decided with the land locked citizens of las vegas needed to hear about from him in order to be persuaded to vote for him was his fear of boats. heavy boats, boats with batteries near sharks. you know, nevada sharks. i know you have heard it happened. you may have seen a headline or scrolled past it on a social media feed. have you actually watched it? uncut, straight through, watched it unfold? it is very much worth watching. it's astonishing. my favorite part is the people you can see at the rally behind him who are really trying to follow along but who clearly have no earthly idea what uncle ramble standers is on about. just watch this. >> what would happen if the boat sank from its weight? and you're in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery is now underwater, and there's a shark that's approximately ten yards over there? by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. did you notice that? i watched some guys justifying it today. well, they weren't really that angry. they bit off the young lady's leg because of the fact that they were -- they were not hungry but they misunderstood who she was. these people are crazy. he said there's no problem with sharks. they just didn't really understand a young woman swimming. really got desmaded and a lot of other people. i said so there's a shark ten yards away from the boat. ten yards. or here. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. do i stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted because he didn't know the answer. he said, nobody has ever asked me that question. i said i think it's a good question. i think there's a lot of electric current coming through the water, but what i would do if there was a sharko you get electrocuted, i would take electrocution every time. i'm not getting near the shark. we're going to end it for boats. >> we're going to end that, we're going to end it for boats. we're going to end it for boats. vote accordingly. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. 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with absorbine pro, pain won't hold you back from your passions. it's the only solution with two max-strength anesthetics to deliver the strongest numbing pain relief available. so, do your thing like a pro, pain-free. absorbine pro. that does it for me tonight. tonight. much appreciated. thanks to you at home. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show for you tonight. particularly glad you're here for it. we're going to start a ways back as we sometimes do. when allied soldiers came ashore on the coast of france on the beaches of normandy for the d-day invasion, they opened up a new western front against the nazis in europe. and that of course was a shock to the germans. the operation overlord, the d-day invasion, it relied on the element of surprise. and the germans really were shocked. they had been occupying france for four years at that point. they the installed a collaborationist regime that they assembled from pro-fascist and pro-nazi forces inside france, so the collaborationists and the nazis together were ruling france and they had been for years. there was a french resistance to the nazi rule and the collaborationists, but the nazis and their puppets were definitely in charge. i they were actually heading intoc year five of being in charge. they were really settled in, inf france. and then here comes this shock arrival. this invasion. hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions of allied troops landing on the beaches and the cliffs of the northwest of france. and they are clearly planning to take it all back. the d-day invasion, the allied n invasion, started on june 6th. now, on this date, on june 10th, 1944, just four days into the d-day invasion, the germans were reacting. they had been, of course, shocked by the initial invasion. but a few days into it, they now realized the scale of what they were up against and had started scrambling their units from all over france, turning all the available german troops in france toward the northwest of that country to try to stop the allied advance. and that included a nazi ss panzer division that had been in the south of franz. that division was ordered to essentially traverse the whole length of the country, head north to where the allies were advancing from the beaches of hr normandy. and on their way north through france, toward the new allied front lines, the new western front, this panzer division stopped in a village called oradour. pro-nazi french collaborators had told them, they told this panzer unit that the french resistance was active in this town. and they told them that the french resistance in that town had killed a nazi officer. and in response, that panzer unit decided, yes, they were on their way to the north of france to join the new western front and the, you know, the battle for the whole war, to try to shore up the german lines against the big allied invasion, but they decided on their way e there, they would stop and do something in oradour.g they would destroy that entire village and everyone in it. that panzer unit rounded up every single man, woman, and child in that village. they even rounded up random people who didn't live in the village but were nearby or who had the misfortune to be passing through the village when this nazi unit made this decision.t that nazi unit killed every human being in oradour. or everyone they could find. they killed 643 civilians. a vast majority of them women and children.or they used machine guns and they burned them alive. they looted the entire village, and then they tore down the village as best they could. they razed it. oradour.ed this is what it looks like today. still in ruins. the french decided after the war that they would never rebuild. they would leave the ruins, preserve them as they were left at the end of the war, as a memorial to what the nazis did. and we have these photos of what oradour looks like literally today, because this morning, the president of france and the president of germany visited the ruins at oradour to commemorate what they call the martyrdom of that village, to remember what happened in europe, in france, under fascist occupation. now, this is not the first time that french president emmanuel macron has visited oradour. actually, ten days before he was first elected president, he went there. he visited the village just before he was elected president. he visited in the company of the man who was then the last livini survivor of that massacre.s i said the nazis killed everyone in the village, at least everyone they could find.ge the nazis did kill over 600 civilians that day, but there were about half a dozen people from the village who, against all odds, in a miracle managed by hook or by crook to survive. the last one of the survivors was in his 90s when he brought emmanuel macron to oradour in 2017. that last survivor has since died. but today, macron went back to the site, to show this place, to germany's president. now, in 1944, about six months after oradour happened, the germans were still hanging on. but thanks in large part to the d-day invasion, they knew by the end of 1944 that they were losing. they were losing to soviet forces in the east, for sure. they were also simultaneously losing to the allied forces coming in from the west. once the allies opened that new western front with the d-day invasion, they started pressing their advantage against the nazis everywhere. not only liberating france, they clearly intend to liberate everywhere the nazis have taken over. they're pressing toward germany itself. hitler knows that his military is on the ropes. it cannot sustain the losses they're taking on both the eastern and western fronts. and so about six months after d-day, about six months after oradour, hitler decides he's going to mount a surprise of his own. he decides he's going to mount a huge german counteroffensive in belgium against the allies. the allies are basically closing in on germany's own borders and when hitler musters hundreds of thousands of men to mount a counteroffensive against them in the forests of belgium, it absolutely is a surprise to the allies. nobody thought germany still had it in them. everybody thought -- not everybody, but a lot of people thought the war was going to be over by christmas that year. where did the germans muster 400,000, 500,000 men to mount this new counteroffensive, but they did. that german counteroffensive started in mid-december 1944. it began a six-week-long battles that would be the single deadliest battle of the entire war for the u.s. military. aside from just the brutal toll of that battle, that was the battle of the bulge, that battle also came with its own astonishing and unforgettable atrocity. it was another german panzer unit much like the one that killed the entire population of that french village. it was an ss panzer unit in belgium. and they ended up in the very outset of that surprise german counteroffensive, they ended up ambushing a bunch of americans. and the result of it was they took custody of a large group of american prisoners of war, unarmed american p.o.w.s. and these p.o.w.s, again, they had surrendered. they had no weapons. the nazis lined up those americans in a field, the americans have no weapons. they have surrendered.ve they have their hands above their heads. they're p.o.w.s, but the nazis just massacred them in the field, they mowed them down with machine gun fire. and like at that village of oradour, what is almost as unbelievable as what the nazis did there was the fact there were somehow miraculously some survivors. there were some american gis who had also been lined up in that field, who nevertheless lived. american gis who played dead, who hid under the dead bodies of their comrades, who managed in the end to drag themselves into the woods to get away. and what happened to them? you will not believe me when i tell you this, but it would not be long before a sitting united states senator would vehemently object to those men giving testimony about what they saw. about what they survived, about what happened to their platoon mates, to the other men in that battalion. the other p.o.w.s who were massacred by those nazis.p. a sitting u.s. senator tried to block the american soldiers who. survived that massacre from t giving testimony about it in congress. he said the american people shouldn't hear it.e he said it would be he inflammatory. w it would inflame the public to against the nazis who killed alf of those unarmed american p.o.w.s.na i find it absolutely insane to think about, but this became a very strange thing in american domestic politics. i mean, there were unrepentant r leftover nazis in germany after the war. they were trying to make the allies and america in particular the real bad guys from world war ii, and maybe that is understandable when you think about unrepentant nazis who just lost the war, but you would not believe it, the zi thing that's amazing is not that there were leftover nazis who were trying to do this. the thing you wouldn't believe is they enlisted a lot of americans to help them in that project. including taking a stand against the american soldiers who survived that p.o.w. massacre ha and demanding that the nazis who did it should be set free. this became a cause celebre in the right wing press at the e time. and it helped launch the national career, the rocketship ascendance of arguably the most radical and controversial figure in republican electoral politics in the last 80 years before donald trump. while he was swimming in these very dark waters, darker than what seems possible for something in mainstream american politics he would go on to lead a movement of millions of followers who were increasingly radicalized by his increasingly radical rhetoric and tactics over time. his fellow republicans were both repelled by him, horrified by him, while they also wanted in on some of the massive political energy and fanatical devotion he attracted. they thought very seriously about putting him forward for the presidency, and the reaction among close observers of him and his tactics look so much like what you're seeing in the american press today about the e fear of a second trump term, you wouldn't believe that it isn't just a straight up rerun. in his time, the people who stood up against him mostly got mowed down in politics by the strength of his fanatical following. that happened for a very long time. until eventually, ultimately, it stopped happening.en and the forces against him prevailed. and i'm telling you this for two reasons.ll number one, this is the thing that i have been working on for the past year. my podcast, rachel maddow presents ultra, now has a season two, and it is out today. episode one is out today.t you can get it anywhere you get podcasts. if you don't usually listen to podcasts, if you take out your phone right now, open the camera on your phone, and point it at that weird looking little on l circular square thing on your screen, you click on the little box that pops up on your phone, it will bring you right there so you can listen to it. you can listen to it for free. it's free to listen to. there are eight episodes of thio all together.ei episode one is out today. i hope you may want to listen.e i have been working really hard on it.n i'm really proud of it, but i hope you like it. i hope you'll check it out. that's one of the easons i'm telling you this story. i have been working on this story, i have been working in general on stories about other v times in our american history that we have dealt with really terrible threats to the country. where we have confronted reallyr radical people with really radical designs to undo the fundamental things that make us who we are as a country who nevertheless get into political power and attract large followings. this has happened to us before.p and the reason i have been working on this for the past couple years, the reason i have been working on these projects is because for me, i feel like i really need to learn this stuff and fast, for me, there is a real urgency to learn these stories now.no from when we have contended with terrible challenges before, ha particularly when we're talking about powerful americans advocating for authoritarianism or just flat out embodying it. particularly when it's about selling factually unhinged conspiratorial lies to the american public and half the public is mortified, mystified by that, but the other half of the public is super energized by it and they not only believe these lies, they kind of become their whole new reason to live. the public gets bifurcated like that into earth one and earth two where some people are based in the reality based community and some people are based in a different place, and that place is emotionally satisfying to them, and radicalizing them, and it takes over their lives. we are living through a moment like that right now with what is ascendant on the american righth but we have lived through it before. and i feel like i'm racing to learn these stories about americans who have fought these kinds of fights before us for the simple reason that i feel like i need their ideas about how to fight it. we need their ideas about how to fight these things. we need to see what worked and what didn't when americans faced threats like this before. and it doesn't mean that fighting them always works. sometimes they get away with a lot of this stuff, and sometimes people take on incredible risk and danger to themselves. sometimes people risk their lives or give up their lives to fight these things, but knowing the track record of americans who have stood up against these kinds of dark and authoritarian and anti-democratic forces knowing who else has tried it and what's happened to them is helpful for us calibrating our available responses now. and knowing what to expect when we confront these dark movements. so that is why i have been working on this, and that is why that story is on my mind tonight. but it is also what's on the news right now. i mean, one of the remarkable things about seeing the french president with the german president at the ruins of oradour today in france is that they took that tour of the ruins of that village today, that th preserved memorial to what fascism did in europe, they took that tour this morning. just one day after the german far right and the french far right won shockingly large an proportions of the vote in the h european elections that were held yesterday. in both of those countries, the parties that did so well have ties not only to the old fascist parties of old world war ii era germany and france, they both have current ties, including financial ties, to vladimir putin and russia. when president biden and president macron of france met in france these past few days ma for the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day, president biden said that he and president macron agreed on a new plan to seize russian assets inz the g-7 countries and use those seized russian assets to providn even more support to ukraine. as ukraine continues to struggle against the russian invasion of that country. president biden is just back from france for these d-day commemoration ceremonies and from those meetings with e president macron. he's just back but heads back to europe the day after tomorrow to go to the g-sev summit, among other things to rally the other nations to support this new plan, to support ukraine as muc as possible including this new plan that he and macron have just agreed to involving seizing russian assets to help ukraine even more. and, you know, in the american aperture here, what's going on in our politics while president biden is trying to, you know, rally the free world, trying to strengthen our alliances as much as possible to lead collective international will against a rogue dictatorship that has invaded one big european country already and has its sights set on more, here at home, literally while president biden and other american leaders were headed off to europe for the 80th anniversary of d-day, while they were heading off to europe for that, what was happening in the american congress? a fifth of the republicans in congress just voted that we should leave our allies altogether. that we should break up the big western alliance, that we should defund nato. and i think nobody really paid attention to this vote because this legislation was put forward by a very fringe member of congress, a member of congress who is known for her publicity stunts and she's therefore -- she is easy to ignore. but it wasn't just her.y 46 republicans voted for this thing.ca a fifth of the republicans in congress last week voted to defund nato. don't just forget being the leader of the free world, forget the whole idea of there being a free world at all. they saved that for the anniversary of d-day. 46 republicans voting to defund nato. and as radical as that may seem, particularly when you think about where nato came from and why, the wing of the republican party that is pushing for this stuff, i mean, on its face, it seems unlikely they would have such sway. every few days we get a new mugshot of one of their leading lights because so many of them have been charged with crimes. today, it was their presidential candidate's personal lawyer, wh has had his law license suspended, who is under indictment, rudy giuliani's w mugshot just released today after he was arraigned in arizona. you can put it up on the wall with all of the other maga republican mugshots we have accrued over the past year. their presidential candidate is a convicted felon. today he had to meet with the probation office in new york ahead of his sentences. people at his rallies not only wear tshirts and fly flags that have his mugshot on them, they started carrying signs and wearing shirts that now say rr they're proudly voting for the convicted felon. at a rally this weekend, their presidential candidate described members of the mob of his t supporters who physically w attacked congress and injured dozens of police officers, he described them in a speech this weekend as, quote, warriors. his warriors. people who took part in that mob attack on congress. his warriors. while a few days ago, two police officers who were both badly injured fighting hand to hand with that mob to defend congress, to defend the u.s. capitol, those two police officers were jeered and booed by republicans in the pennsylvania state legislature. they jeered them, turned their backs on them and walked out. these are two officers who survived that attack, they were literally injured fighting for their country, defending our seat of government against a violent attack. but the republicans who jeered at them and turned their backs on them and walked out, they want the attackers freed. and they don't want to hear what these survivors of the attack had to say. don't want to hear from the survivors and the witnesses. you want the attackers set free. we are going through some weird stuff right now. but we have gone through weird stuff before. and i do think that we can learn from it and that we urgently need to. that's why i have been working on all these projects. that's why i've got this new se podcast out and i hope you listen. but it's not just the distant past. in the very recent past when we got donald trump in the white house in the first place, you might remember what preceded that shock election result here in the united states in 2016. our shock presidential election result in 2016 was preceded that year by some shocking and surprisingly right wing election results in europe. including the brexit vote in e britain which happened just months before trump's surprise presidential victory here. i asked ben rhodes to please join us here tonight in the wake of what is now, again, another round of what seemed to be surprisingly right wing election results in europe this weekend.y was it right in 2016 to see right wing election results in europe as a harbinger of what was coming for us in the fall o 2016? as president biden balances his campaign responsibilities right now with back-to-back trips to europe, he just got back from europe, he heads back to europe again on wednesday. do the election results from europe right now, this weekend, have hallmarks that tell us anything about what to expect here and about how weird this is all going to get?ut president biden clearly sees ouo connections to europe right now as absolutely key to the futureo of the world. does what's going on in european politics right now tell us something to expect about the future of our world here? joining us now is ben rhodes. he's former deputy national security adviser to president obama, cohost of the pod save the world podcast. really great to see you. thanks for making time to be here tonight. >> good to see you. >> first, let me ask you for some of our viewers who may not have paid close attention to what was happening in the european elections this weekend, let me ask you two questions about them. do you think they're important for us to pay attention to? and can you just give us a rough characterization of what happened in those elections?za >> sure. these were elections for the european parliament. e so the european union wide parliament, so the only electiop that takes place every few years in which all of europe votes. it's a good barometer of where opinion is in europe. the two headlines are the far right made noticeable gains in the two largest countries in europe, france and germany.rg in france, the national front party, the far right party that used to be on the fringes of french politics, emerged as by far the largest vote getter in g this election and to build on what you're saying, this is a party that is not only far right, they have ties to russia. they have gotten a $10 million loan from russia in the past decade. in germany, the afd party, which has ties that go back into the kind of neonazi past of germany, they got over 15% of the vote, not a huge total, but very alarming given the source here. i want to be clear, in other parts of europe, the center did hold.ur i think the real concerning factor is in the two most important countries, france and germany, we saw these far right gains. >> do you think that it's right to look back at 2016 and see some of what was going on in politics in europe as a harbinger for the shock election result we got in the fall of r 2016 when trump won? do you think these election results should be read as a harbinger of what's coming down the pike for us this year? >> i absolutely do, rachel. the commonality between the brexit vote, the vote by the uk to leave the european union in 2016 and the trump election was that it was a -- it was a surprise.a people did not think brexit was going to win the campaign and they campaigned on a kind of right wing populist message. the slogan was take back control. they ran against globalists and liberal elites and against immigration and was very trumpy in its message, frankly. it kind of foreshadowed what we ended up dealing with in the fall here. i think the warning in this election, and you ask mead a wa question when i came on to talk about my book a few years ago about far right parties and their commonalities around the world, you asked what lesson should we learn. i always think about that. the lesson i take from this one is that their incumbent parties in germany and france that have defended essentially the status quo, emmanuel macron has been a defender of the european union. olaf scholz has been a defender of the liberal order. people are not listening to that message right now. you cannot defeat these parties, these populist insurgents be being the defenders of the status quo, but you have to tapt into people's dissatisfaction e' with globalization, dissatisfaction with inequality. sense that things are slipping out of control. it's not enough to say we're the responsible adults here. you have to kind of get down and have a different message for how things are going to change. g i think that's the warning sign that joe biden should hear, nots enough to run on status quo here. not enough to defend even the things we think are very t important. you have to meet people where they are, and people are frustrated.d >> ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to president obama.t ben, thank you for making the time. i feel like when we need to like widen the lens a lot and look at america in the world, you're le almost always one of the first people i think of.s thank you for being here. >> thanks, rachel. i can't wait to check out the r we have much more ahead here tonight.e do stay with us. her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. so let's get down to the nitty-gritty here. georgia became this kind of bench mark for principled republicans refusing to go along with improper, un-american machinations from president trump. governor brian kemp, brad raffensperger, two very conservative republicans, both nevertheless stood up to personal pressure from trump to overturn president biden's win in georgia. and of course, all that pressure trump brought to bear on georgia republicans and the ways in which those republicans resisted, that formed the basis for fulton county district attorney fani willis filing a huge rico case against trump and 18 of his codefendants in georgia. that's one story of the state of georgia after the 2020 election. republicans standing up, the record of them standing up and what they had to stand up against forming the basis for this sprawling, damning criminal indictment. the other story of georgia since that election is all the work that pro-trump republicans have done to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. to make sure nobody can ever again get in the way of trump seizing georgia's 16 electoral votes, no matter what the votes say. the most obvious thing georgia republicans have done is use every tool at their disposal to derail fani willis' prosecution of trump. in the latest development in that three republican appointed judges have just put the whole case on hold while they take their time considering whether fani willis should be disqualified from the case. thus guaranteeing that the georgia prosecution will definitely not go forward against trump before the election. but that's only the start. in georgia's most populous county, fulton county, one republican elections board member last month refused to certify the primary results there. because you know, elections are scary. with the help of lawyers from a pro-trump think tank, she has now filed a lawsuit seeking the power to block the certification of elections which would of course throw november's results in georgia into chaos. which is presumably the point. meanwhile, just north of fulton county, republicans recently started agitating to take over an elections board in cherokee county. now, the board there, like other counties in georgia, has always been evenly split between democrats and republicans, but republicans in cherokee county are no longer okay with that. they wanted a full scale republican takeover, when that was blocked, they comp with an ingenious new plan. they decided they would replace one of the democratic commissioners who had been nominated with their own choice. their own choice for a democrat. a new guy that none of the local democrats have ever heard of. but don't worry, the republicans who run cherokee county swear this guy they picked is definitely a democrat. the atlanta journal constitution reported that the republican cherokee county commission chairman, quote, assured the board that the new member is a democrat, even if the local democratic party is unfamiliar with him. i assure you, he's definitely on your team. i know you have never met and i picked him, but trust me. pinky promise. meanwhile, at the state elections board in georgia, republicans there just started writing a new rule that would allow county elections boards to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry before they certify any election results. so instead of signing off on election results as county election boards are now required to do by law, they would be empowered instead to investigate those results as they see fit. the journal constitution notes that, quote, the proposed rule doesn't say what a reasonable inquiry would entail before certifying an election. yeah, why would you specify that? you want every election denying republican county elections board member in georgia just making it up as they go along, calling their own behavior reasonable. while the presidential election potentially hangs in the balance. speaking of that state elections board, one of its republican members was ousted last month, one of its republican members was ousted, after trump reportedly spent months calling georgia republicans insisting that that election board member had to go. because that person was not backing trump's lies about the 2020 election. and so of course, the guy had to go. trump's personal involvement in remaking the georgia state elections board is just one of the revelations in new reporting from rolling stone. their new piece is headlined georgia is our laboratory. inside trump's plan to rig 2024. it details how trump's allies are working to make sure there will not be a straightforward election result in georgia this year, given georgia's swing state status that absolutely could be a deciding factor in how the election is going to go down. what is happening there? what is happening to try to stop what is happening there? one of the reporters on that rolling stone piece joins us next. stay with us. stay with us are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com the ultimate authority is the voter. the secretary of state was re-elected by the voters of the state by a larger margin than any other -- excuse me. >> order. order. >> by a larger margin than any other state-wide office. the voters -- >> order. >> -- have demonstrated their faith and therefore i do not believe that at present, we have the authority to oversee or investigate the secretary of state. >> georgia's board of elections gathered to discuss launching an investigation into georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger who had the temerity to say no when donald trump demanded he flip the results of the 2020 election in georgia. the lone democrat on that elections board spoke out against doing this unprecedented investigation of raffensperger. as you heard, she was loudly shouted down. in a new article titled georgia is our laboratory, inside trump's plan to rig 2024, rolling stone reports this. quote, the former president and his supporters have been making concrete step by step progress in shaping electoral processes to his benefit. across the state, maga die hards are devoting considerable resources to purging voting rolls, intimidating election officials, employing legal dirty tricks, and ousting appointees who haven't been initiated into the cult of trump. it's the state where the republican party has total control over the levers of power. over the last four years trump loving elements of the georgia republican party have wielded that advantage in a crusade to turn election conspiracy theories into policies. it's an alarmingly anti-democratic experiment that trump planned and much of the republican party hope to take national. joining us now is adam ronsly, the reporter co bylined on that sprawling piece. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> so what are some of the steps that trump and his allies have taken to change the electoral process in georgia? >> so one of the most alarming ones that a source who has discussed this issue with trump told us, a republican attorney, is they're planning to challenge the election result regardless of the result. you know, we think of the threat to elections from trump's behavior in 2020 as only occurring in the event that trump loses. you know, at the current state of polling, trump is ahead in georgia, if you believe the polling, but what republican attorney who discussed this with trump told us is that, quote, you can't let the left get away with this cheating just because it didn't succeed, air quotes around cheating. and the plan is to challenge the result regardless of the outcome. and the intent behind that is essentially a permanent delegitimization of the election process. it's heads, i win, tails you lose. and i think you had mentioned this a little bit in your intro, is that one of the things people should be paying close attention to is that refusal to certify in the fulton county board of elections -- in the presidential primary. because one of the things that's very, very notable about that is that the attorneys who filed that lawsuit work for america first policies institute, which is a very trumpy organization filled with former trump folks. and what you see in those kinds of processes is the legal january 6th in miniature. essentially you're taking someone who is, you know, acting beyond their brief and trying to essentially insert themselves into the counting and, you know, assessment of vote tallies. >> adam, is this actually a fight in georgia? you note, i think, importantly, that georgia's a place where republicans control all of the levers of power. we just played the sound of one democratic member of the state elections board getting shouted down when she objected to what they were trying to do in terms of targeting raffensperger. is this fight joint where there is pushback against what they're doing or are they essentially running the table by changing processes to their own benefit? >> you know, they definitely have quite a built-in advantage. and i think that's why georgia relative to other battleground states is particularly interesting because it is more so than perhaps any other state a fight for the soul of the republican party. particularly when it comes to their faith in free and fair elections. and yeah, even folks like brian kemp, who was an absolute obstacle to trump's attempt to, you know, illegally overturn the election in georgia, brian kemp signed sb-202, a law that allows for a range of, you know, sort of procedural chicanery. joe biden called it jim crow in the 21st century. you know, even folks who have proven themselves to be obstacles to some of the more overt aspects of it sometimes will just go along to get along. and so they definitely do have an advantage. and they are running the table in certain ways, but you do see folks like you mentioned earlier, like ed lindsay, whose resignation letter we obtained in the story. people like that, you still do have these kind of principled republicans who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, but as you saw with the case of ed, you know, he had to resign under a great deal of pressure from not just president trump but from the grassroots of the party who believe in a lot of election conspiracies. >> yeah, the bare fact that a presidential candidate is personally lobbying to remove individual state elections board members ought to be on the front page of every paper of the country. been reported by adam, reporter at rolling stone. adam, the by-line reporters on the piece, georgia is our laboratory, thank you for helping us understand this. thanks for doing this work. would love to have you back. >> thanks so much for having me, rachel. >> i appreciate it. we'll be right back. stay with us. stay with us i'm gina. i want to talk to you about golo and how it has changed my life and how it can change yours too. like many of you i've been dieting and failing half my life. and each time i would diet i would quit and my weight and health would get much worse. i had to do something. i saw a golo commercial, i talked to my doctors, and i ordered. like me, the golo success stories are real. give golo a shot. you won't be sorry. could have been the heat, i suppose. temperatures were over 100 degrees at his outdoor campaign rally in las vegas yesterday. so hot, six people had to go to the hospital, and another two dozen had to get medical treatment on site. could have been the heat, i suppose. could also maybe have been that he was nervous about the fact that he was less than 24 hours away from his first meeting with his new york state probation officer. that meeting could be particularly nerve-racking for him because, you know, one of the things a probation officer asks you after you're convicted of felonies is if you have been associating with anyone who has a criminal record. that's worth noting because if he is ultimately sentenced to probation next month while he's on probation, he would not be allowed to associate with anyone with a criminal record. for a lot of people, that wouldn't be a big deal. for him, that's a big deal. that particular restriction eats away at his very close social circle. so maybe that was all distracting him. i don't know. he maybe had a lot -- i don't know. whatever the reason, he decided to venture into new territory in his campaign speech yesterday, less than five months out from the election. this is an important swing state. he decided with the land locked citizens of las vegas needed to hear about from him in order to be persuaded to vote for him was his fear of boats. heavy boats, boats with batteries near sharks. you know, nevada sharks. i know you have heard it happened. you may have seen a headline or scrolled past it on a social media feed. have you actually watched it? uncut, straight through, watched it unfold? it is very much worth watching. it's astonishing. my favorite part is the people you can see at the rally behind him who are really trying to follow along but who clearly have no earthly idea what uncle ramble standers is on about. just watch this. >> what would happen if the boat sank from its weight? and you're in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery is now underwater, and there's a shark that's approximately ten yards over there? by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. did you notice that? i watched some guys justifying it today. well, they weren't really that angry. they bit off the young lady's leg because of the fact that they were -- they were not hungry but they misunderstood who she was. these people are crazy. he said there's no problem with sharks. they just didn't really understand a young woman swimming. really got decimated and a lot of other people. i said so there's a shark ten yards away from the boat. ten yards. or here. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking. do i stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted because he didn't know the answer. he said, nobody has ever asked me that question. i said i think it's a good question. i think there's a lot of electric current coming through the water, but what i would do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted, i would take electrocution every single time. i'm not getting near the shark. so we're going to end that. we're going to end it for boats. >> we're going to end that, we're going to end it for boats. we're going to end it for boats. vote accordingly. vote accordingly a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! all right, that's going to do it for us tonight. i told you tonight was going to be a show and a half. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. donald trump has completed his presentencing interview with a new york probation officer after being convicted in his criminal hush money trial. what sources are saying about what happened during that private proceeding. plus authorities release a new mug shot of rudy giuliani as