i also took my mother to a launch. my mother was pushing 80 and loved it. afterward she said it was perfect. she said i saw the horse and buggy. i saw the airplane and now this. i felt really good. when they landed a week later at edwards air force base in california president reagan telephoned his congratulations and said to sally somebody said sometimes the best man for the job as a woman. you were there because you were the best person for the job which i think it's absolutely true. millions of people around the world agree particularly women particularly young women. they translated herbold journey into their own ticket to success and the thinking was if she could do that i can do anything. weather was getting out of the typing pool are getting into medical school or whatever many women wanted to do this really opened the door. sally had a wonderful time. she worked very hard. one of the things she did this with all astronauts do when things got a little slow which was rare. she would drift over to the window and looked back at the earth and the image that she saw of the earth with the earth's atmosphere totally changed her life. she said it was as if someone had taken a world blue crayon and drawn a line around the earth earth. sometimes she change the metaphor. she would say that line is as thin as the fuzz on a tennis ball or she would say it was the earth's space suit. that's our atmosphere. that's only thing that is protecting us from the harsh reality of outer space. without the atmosphere amount of us would be here. we could not survive. that's when she began to understand the fragility of the planet we live on and directed a huge amount of her life towards getting science and government and children interested in doing something about protecting the earth. that was just the beginning of sally's contributions to the planet and to nasa. after the challenger explosion cease served on the rogers commission which investigated that and as it turns out became the source. i did not know this until i found this while researching the book. she was the source, an early source of the critical revelation about the o. rings and their contribution to the accident and also to the flood management decisions that were made. with nasa essentially shut down to repair the system and reconfigure the program's sally return to washington where she undertook a major study at nasa headquarters to determine the future of the space agency and that is the one in which he recommended first something called mission to planet earth which was treating earth as an exotic planet the same way we look at mars and venus and everything else out there and expanding some of our vast energy on fixing what's going on here. not only before but at the same time as we are going other places. this was a huge step forward. over the years she served on other commissions and also on the investigative commission when the colombia disintegrated in 2003 on its re-entry to earth. she was the only shuttle astronaut to serve on both commissions and made a huge contribution to that one also. once sally was the bright new face of nasa and nasha became its conscience. she really cared about the space agency, really wanted to fi fixt when something went wrong and later in life when she left nasa she worked with nasa on many projects. she got them to put a camera in space first on the shuttle and then on the space station and hooked it in with kids classrooms so that youngsters could sit in the classroom punch buttons and take pictures of parts of the year that they wanted to study. she called that one earth cam and when someone was sending up satellites to do research in orbit around them and sally put a camera on those satellites and got kids in school to be able to take pictures of women them and then she called that the moon cam. she was always giving back to kids. this is what she really wanted to do. being first was fine but she didn't want to be the only one. she wanted to awaken young female minds to the wonder of science that she had experienced that captivated her. she wanted to inspire the next generation of america's engineers and mathematicians and astronauts and she wanted to teach them that she had grown up believing that if your grill you can in fact do anything. she wanted them to see the stereotypes and to be a pro -- for-profit company because she thought would attract the most talented she said over and over we need to make science cool again. she and a couple partner started a company called sally ride science would still exist and its purpose is to get metal boys -- middle school boys and girls interested in science. that's the woman that i knew. she would come to stay with me in new york and slay dragons during the day and at night and would come home and find her flopped on her living room floor with her shoes on the coffee table watching television. she was a superb compartmentalize her able to focus like a laser. her roommate at stanford said she could study through whistling tea kettle. and then sally told another reporter she was also able to go home at night and quote flip the switch marked oblivious. she could just disappear into "star trek," into star wars or many other less accomplish things that she watched. there were of course these things i did not know about sally but as i say she was a very private individual. cap a lot of things. i did not know she had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and only had 17 months to live. i didn't really appreciate that the price you paid for all of her fame. this was a woman who really did prefer being in the library stacks or being by herself or with one friend and she made tens of thousands of speeches. she had to psych herself up for every single one but she understood that she had flown and we have paved the way that it was a government agency and public relations was part of the give back and she went out there and just did it. i think her legacy is completely secure and in the course of writing this book more than 200 interviews with her family and close friends and colleagues i learned things about her i had no idea about but i found the same extraordinary woman i had known when i covered her. she was at base a california girl who wanted to save the planet and introvert whose radiance. pulled her into public service. she was an academic who could explain raindrops to a class full of college students and the wonders of weightlessness to a roomful of little girls. she was really lucky with her parents. very progressive individuals. her father was a purple heart or world war ii an eisenhower republican. her mother was a complete lefty who love the fact that her vote canceled out her husbands every single time. they both believed in education. sally was lucky because of the emphasis on science that the country adopted after the sputnik. sally was a little girl in 1957 when sputnik went up and she benefited from all that. i was in high school and perhaps some of you did the same thing. i remember going outside in my backyard on a cold november night in looking up and seeing this thing going around, this thing that started the space race in the space age and turned on the radio and it went beep, beep. it was really scary. sally benefited from the push of science after that she benefited from the women's movement. she did not plan her life for an advance in when opportunity knocks he was ready to open the door and sail right through it. i used to tell her this, there was she given at stanford union that day when she read the article nasa was looking for one of the fact that she could change her career and she could move on it i thought it was a great lesson. sally took a different model from that moment and she was deadpanned to student audiences. i guess the message is read your college newspaper. and she did it all with a smile. when she returned from the first flight she flew twice in june of 83. after all the work should then she said from the tarmac for thing i will remember the most about this flight was that it was fun fun and in fact i'm sure it was the most fun i will have in my life. she was 32 years old. she had plenty of fun later on but years later she elaborated facing an auditorium filled with 1000 youngsters. imagine a room twice the size and she was hated the kids imagine his room and space. he could do 35 somersaults in a row. she would say my favorite thing about space is being weightless. there's not even a close second in every eye in the room would be huge and all those kids would immediately sign up to be astronauts. sally was an icon to kids and grownups grown-ups alike. she was 5 feet 5 inches. as one colleague put it was only after he left her presence that you realized she was really short. it was that ability to be bigger than you actually are. she was a child of the eisenhower years who is as inspired by kennedy marched against nixon flew under reagan and advised clinton and obama. i was capturing and challenging the motive of our times to change our world. flying in space was not her childhood goal that the commitment that having to play she chairs the adventure. actually called what i've learned from sally flying lessons and i think she can teach all of us how to fly high without ever leaving the earth. i think her lifer minds is that whatever our own personal limits there's always something out there grander than we can measure more marvelous than we can imagine it's something that is just waiting to be explored. she proved that you don't need to write plumbing to have the right stuff. it in any field in any endeavor and after smashing through the ultimate glass ceiling without messing term i think she brought back the ultimate lesson. she was asked over and over what did you see out there? what was it like? the sally who incidentally her undergraduate degree in physics had a double major as an undergraduate and also majored in english which i troop it -- she was a shakespearean. when she was asked this question sally put science and eloquence together and translated the reality that she sought out there into a team of encouragement for the rest of us on earth. what did she see out there? i'm going to repeat the words he saw on the screen. she would say the stars don't look bigger but they do look brighter. i think it's exactly the kind of message we hear from the first american woman in space an optimist, a stunning can-do person who made us all believe that this is a wonderful way to live our lives. thank you very much. [applause] >> there is time left for questions. if you have a question please come over to the side. >> be brave. but don't ask me about weeping. >> with that to be easy. i apologize for almost changing the subject but i'm curious about the soviet, the two soviet women in space. has no one written anything? >> the question is about the two cosmonaut female cosmonaut. we don't know what huge amount about them. fallin teen and particular, her flight was dismissed by americans who really knew nothing about it. they sort of proof sort of pooh-poohed it and said she didn't do a very good job. that if i'm not mistaken has been proven to be false. she did a fine job but this was not the soviet union suddenly making a stand on behalf of land because no one in flew again from us 20 years. we don't know a whole lot about her. we know more about the accomplished flyer and there's a wonderful story to tell in the book and i will just give you the outline of it for now. sally after her flight was on a publicity tour that they'll have to do and one of the places they go is budapest for international aeronautics astronautics federation meeting. remember that korean airlines jet that was shot down by the russians in 1983? this was right after that's at what the state department said the sally and the pilot and their spouses no fraternizing with the enemy. our cold war enemy was at that moment behaving very badly and we had a terrible relationship. they said we don't want any front-page pictures of you while drinking vodkas and toasting each other and have a wonderful time. stay away from the cosmonauts. they get their and all of a sudden sally at one reception feels a tap on her shoulder and she turns around and there she is. you're sally ride who was one month earlier the first american woman in space meeting for the first time one of only two other women who have ever been in space and she is going to talk to her. i won't give it all away now but i will tell you there's a secret meeting and it was quite extraordinary and formed a lifetime bond for the two of them. once again seley push the envelope a little
where work hasz the port. a is you about break times has pushed a new wedge between dock workers and their employers. work did resume overnight, but problems developed this morning. and the port is once again a ghost town. this most reercht dispute only involvesr@ the port of oakland. not the 28j @ other west coast ports involved in the slowdown. those ports are moving ahead withjdr operations. nanette at 5:00. new concerns about the trains hauling cru)>csd oil or ethanol across the united states. a report says those trains could derail ten times per year over the next decades causing $4 billion in damage possibly killing hundreds of people. the study coming light this week after a trainloaded with crude oil derailed in west virginia and sparked a fire there. federal officials say trains need safety improvements and stronger cars. bay area officials are fighting a proposal that would allow crude oil to travel through the area. if you have been outside today, it's windsy. conditions on the water chopper. coast guard rescued six people after their outrigger canoe capsized over by the golden gate bridge. a rescueyj&av boat launched froe9ip thexzc1 coast guard golden gate station was able to pull the group to safety quickly. they were in the water only 20 minutes. no one was injured. the canoe tip over during a wind advisory that's still in effect. let's check in with rob. >> we've been tracking the wind and at times showers closer to san jose. this is towards theçvñ stan at that cruz mountains. 63 degrees. and showers moving through san jose. heavier showers south of morgan hill. over towards hollister and gilroy. it's moving from the northeast to the southwest. area.low pressure spilling showers into parts of the southk bay and"o)[&so seth up gusty winds between high pressure to our north and that area of low pressure in central california. right now, cloud-free in san francisco. but you can see these wind speeds right now. 20 to 25 miles per hour. and they will increase in the hills of the north bay overnight up close to 40 miles per hour just before day break tomorrow. the wind speeds staying up high wind advisory has been extended lls where gusts will be around 40 miles per hour. that's one component of the forecast we are watching. obviously for san jose south how long those showers could continue. possibly into tomorrow5biñ morning's commute. word tonight that terrorists are taking aim at aéa's biggest shopping gjv2malg. the mall of america in mini minnesota. that as the white house is battling ov] homeland security running. more from washington. >> reporter: the terrorgt9juñ behind the 2013 attack on a mall in nairobi has relied a new threat against the mall of america.0!c alongside stepped up security there is a]zsense of defiance. >> i refuse to let those people change the way i live my life. >> reporter: still, the threat by al shabaab has to be taken seriously according to the head of homeland security. >> i'm not telling people to not go to the mall. i think there needs to be an awareness. there needs to be vigilance. >> reporter: the:nhm latestpf> funding for fema the coast guard, the secret service our border patrol. >> reporter: gop may have been handed an easy out this week when a federal judge stayed president obama's executive orders on immigration. >> we have an c; and that is the federal court decision saying that the president's actions unilaterally are unconstitutional. >> reporter: if congress doesn't fact by friday, 30,000 workers may be& critical personnel will have to keep on working without a paycheck. brin coverage has been extended. covered california saysqhu some people have until the ends of april to enroll. they are making the change"jbwñ to accommodatet taxpayers who didn't realize they will be charged penalties on their tax returns if they do not have any type of this applies only to people who already started filling out the application. people who]=do not have health care coverage will still have to pay $95:1) or one percent of their adjusted gross n whichever is greater for 2014. for the 2515 tax year that penalty jumps to $325 per adult or 2% of your a landscap[eá- accident in san jose led toq/2oñ a gas leak scare. pge says a landscaper pushing a lawn moier hit a gas line at taco mania on stevensreek boulevard this morning.0wtwñ crews found gas blowing out of the service line and were able to stop the lowe slow. no injuries to report. no evacuations were triggered. a follow up on the destructive fire irík# san zv francisco's castro district yesterday. fire investigators put the cost at $1.4 million. flames broke out near theú)(ç corner of 15th and church@l p streets near 4:00 yesterday. it took 104 firefighters to get the fire under control n. the ends two apartments were damaged as well as the building behind the:é)w apartments. 12 people right now are displaced. out and finding them a place to stay. the only injury a cat who suffered smoke inhalation. but the cat is expected to be now. >> i was going to say -- the snow that continues to cause problems back yeast. roofs buckling under the weight. also the doctor is in. thankse@vñ to your smart phone. how silicone valley is changing the medical world one device and app at a time. starting february 21, 2015 if you have a 415 or 628 number you'll need to dial... 1 plus the area code plus the phone number for all calls. okay, but what if i have a 415 number, and i'm calling a 415 number? you'll still need to dial... 1 plus the area code plus the phone number. so when in doubt, dial it out! some are saying it's not the wave of the future it's silicone valley leading the charge in converting your phone into a health care center. >>fn coach explains. >> reporter: at vital connect iárv campbell÷[qéc the ceo is testing a prototype. the health patch md you can put on yourself. provides heart monitoring, tracks and other health metrics. the first device of its kind in the world and available for doctors or loved ones to track someone with a heart condition. >> of the same quality that you go when you go to a check up. >> reporter: it hit the1rp)ket last summer but the company is already developings[ faster all encompassing patch. >> this would have a lot of other capabilities. >> reporter: his is part of a growing industry that incorporates technology and health care. while his is a clinical device is not one consumers can buy at home he saysolsy mobile shelt a@x%j next xjiq% 9hr(t&háhp &hc more 'obile, and more personalized. vital connect is bringing these attributes to health care. >> these technologies can bring the cost down. at the same time the patient is more comfortable. he doesn't have to go to doctor if he doesn't have to. and it issa very much instantaneous instantaneous. >> reporter: the market is expanding for consumer health )c'a apps. apple included a health application when it launched the iphone six allowing people to track health and fitn'v?hr(t&háhp &hc this is a job you not only can do but ing it a step further, an app and device to track your baby's sleep and mood. basically a super charged baby monitor. others have turned the phone into an otoscope an attachment to check your child's ear for infection a video recording sent to a doctor. >> the doctor responds within two hs jr and gives you a diagnosis, a ( reatment plan. can call in a prescription if= necessary. >> reporter: there are more and doctors are taking notice. a study shows 86% of cling schwan's believe mobile apps will become important to patient health management over the next five years. for example, a san diego company has developed an app that allows parents to monitor their child's ug blood sugar level. >> a five star rating. i'm excited about it. >> reporter: stanford researchers are even using our phones to try and cure cancer. >> you think about what super computers could do ten years ago. your phone can actually do well compared to those things. >> it's called foy#t at home. youú+fp?h"ownload the skpap they do the rest. researchers have 180,000 phones already to make it a superóçfjr computer. >> anyikx-ñ one phone or computer may not be that powerful. but the way a snowflake is not that powerful but enough of them together you can shut down a city. enough processors together you can become a9ásuper computer. >> the more people on the app the faster they believe they can find a cure. >> that could be the difference between life and death for cancer patients. what we would love to be able toáy#lt do is use yourú$czv computetational methods to bet q to predict which are the drugs that patients should be1ñ taking. >> reporter: silicone valley from the transistor to the smart phone and now mobile hea25néhr(t&háhp &hc it is the next big thing. no question about it. >> no surprise here but many doctors say maybe consult with them before using that app to treat or diagnose anything. you can find1÷4u links to the companies we mentionefbn onhozx our website at nbc bay area.com. dead pets and livestock making turkey vul tours sick in marin county. animal ¢iírts at wild care in san saf yell say the birds are eating the dead animals and getting sick because of a youth÷9áy nasha drug. workers believe it's because people are not properlyhxlúñ disposing of the bodies of animals being put underwzffñ by veterinarians. several of the birds have been nursed back to health bbsqet it's8vv not clear how many affected birds there are. >> six confirmed cases have come from the marin area. we don't know how many were went off and died and were not rescued. >>f to prevent more birds from getting sickb=./ the animal&8 owners are being asked to bury pets or[7s]÷ livestock that are euthanized. >> those turkey vultures will,hz]÷ eat anything. >> anything. coming up next -- >> oe"lxqu)se those are the things that you li i mean those are the uber success stories. >> he is helping sick children, not with medicine. but with math.t the way changing lives will make the bay release a devastating avalanche of taste on your tongue. bury yourself in the flavor full of sweet icing and filling. call off the hounds! rescue is unnecessary. pillsbury toaster strudel, the snow day of breakfasts. who wants pizza rolls?! ♪ ♪ this game day, fun harder with totino's pizza rolls. and blasted crust rolls. all that snow back east is proving too much for some roofs. in an teario]k heavy snow build up forced evacuation this is weekend. you can see why. neighbors of this caved in lumber 'b plant had to find somewhere else to state your worried the gas lines under the mess could rupture.÷bfc the building is considered a total loss n. massachusetts several horses were trapped this p+i)ning when a barnt+;p roof came down because of all the snow. three horses were stuck in their stalls under crew koss remove a sidewall and get them out. none of the animals were hurt.w it is aod< reminder to everyone to clear the snow piling up on roofs. i don't think anybody watching this show is concerned about that. if you are going back east in a while keep it in mind. >> if you have family and fry%38. call them up and say 5& hey. >>41i i think they should know this by know. >> they might be on to that already. just a guess. we are we are at 60 to t degrees warmer than that. 65 in san francisco. cloud free. winds around sfra andü h> just before dawn tomorrow morning. the winds gary simsy in the north and east bay hills the next 12 hours or so. the wind advisory(- continuing until through 10:00 tomorrow morning and below'3+ 500 feet closer to sea level we will seen y winds at 15 to 20. showers south of san jose right now. the radar shows showers south. now those have moved into the santa cruz mountains. the showers look like they come outñ.bdz of nowhere. there was the central valley with the moisture. heating of the 2 aday. with the cooler air aloft, the showers firing up on the interiora -ñ coastal range and drifting off to the south and the real action isrhz central california and that s they are getting rain right now. you can see thunder in the central valley. watch out if you are heading down grapevine tomorrow. could be looking at snow. for the bay area around san jose towards monterey during he day tomorrow you will see cloud build ups around gilroy and hollister. the chachbsz showe÷v maybe one more day south of san jose as we go through tomorrow afternoon. wake up weather forecast for you, mostly 40s auyñh 50s. as we hú with the winds out there not feeling all that worm. mid to upper 50s around lunchtime. mid afternoon, temperatures in the low to mid 50s. hill tops of san jose still showers. south bay, morgan hill may be theymá showers tomorrow. san francisco seeing highs in the d eej(f) the temperatures climb up.iñ you will notice this high pressure strengthens wednesday ,m)u)sday. the temps begin to climb back up. friday and saturday a9fç seeing some showersv3! here as a system that will drop out of the pacific northwest. it will be a colder system but not bringing a lot of rain. but it will bring sierra snow just in time for next ë/tweekend. that's the good news. early outlook for next weekend. showers to start things off on saturday. clearing skies and you cana2 enjoy some÷ new snow in the sierra come next sunday. we know that pets can be an important part of your ; yhome. that's why two stores in the peninsula have dedicated part of their sales today to help out pets who need homes. 6 w-ñ brick monkeyyy3 it is important right now because the animal population at shelters is booming. >> housing isé expensive around here. and renta 7< housing, so there are more and more animals going9l)" to the pounds every day because people are having a hard time finding places to rent. let alone finding o bring your petúwk with you, good luck. >> if you would like to help donate directly to the humane society, you will find a link on our website. up cox, a cash box snatched girl scout! we will take you live to where it happened. also, the port of oakland had just a to you hours of normal operations before things once agai ame screeching tok rescue is unnecessary. pillsbury toaster strudel, the snow day of breakfasts. (humming) oh yeah. (humming) they're magically delicious. ha! very funny, kyle. fighting a life threatening illness is tough at any age. but for a child it can seem so much more difficult. time at the hospital is time away from home and school. how can kids keep up and continue to learn?dkt nbc bay areaf 1 garvin thomas is here wizab proud. >> reporter: jerry brodie isn't quite sure if6ñ kid because he was goode got good at it because he liked it. either way, math ended upgbhb forming the basis of a great career for him. choosing to give back fo6,9a the past decade and a half. atp children's hospital oakland, surroundsed by doctors and )#s=t nurses, busy saving lives with medicine. >> this one is divided into how many parts?d] ai really good at this. >> thank you. >> let's see what else we have. >> reporter: twice a week for 15 years jerry has been coming to children's making1>fñh sure kids too sick to go to class don't falrú rabolaings is y equals x squared. >> reporter: he wants to introduce math to children of all ages at#t6v every level with"vh even a game of chess thrown in. >> it was always in the back of my mind that i would r the patients. not to mention their parents. >> amazing. i couldn't thank him enough. what he is doing, he is really impacting not just for a little bit but he is impacting them forever,$sfuv8 exaggeration just take a trip to the university of nevada reno and check in with jamie he is covery well. >> he actually got me to love mathematics. >> reporter: when jamie wasss 11 y 7th grade. but not only did jamie not fc/4yr behind in math. just the opposite in it was jerry who nott nly influenced his course of study, but the direction of his life. >> anyone who dedicates themselves to help people like that, i mean any littlejy[ thing they might be doing to help can have a significant mark on that person's life., and in my case that's'c(9n exactly what happened. >> those are the things that you live n;dv i mean those are the" success stories. >> if. >> reporter: and while those successes are nice jerry always keeps them in perspective. what matters the most to him is not that his pupils go on to bigger and better things. it's just thatwaas) they go. period. >> the thing that sustains me is that most of these children geteyp well.%vr(t&ho sure from visit tor"ñr visit who he will be working with on a certain day. some patients he sees just once. and others he: iuju)áhu)u$ over months and years. in aofact jamie even continued getting tutored by -'q)ry even after he left the hospital overc-&÷pl÷ the phone. garvin thomas nbc bay area news. >> if you know of someone doing something nice for others garvin would love tos:çdñ hear xtdxp headquarters to our wents, that's nbc bsz area.com and black to church today and putting complaints instead of money into the collection basket snoor. >> a thij+ smashes the cash box from girl scouts selling cookies in front of a san jose grocery store. i'll have that story coming up in a live report. we live in a pick and choose world. choose, choose, choose. but at bedtime? ...why settle for this? enter sleep number, and the ultimate sleep number event, going on now. sleepiq technology tells you how well you slept and what adjustments you can make. you like the bed soft. he's more hardcore. so your sleep goes from good to great to wow! now we can all choose amazing sleep only at a sleep number store. right now find our best-buy rated c2 queen mattress starting at $599.99. know better sleep with sleep number. release a devastating avalanche of taste on your tongue. bury yourself in the flavor full of sweet icing and filling. call off the hounds! rescue is unnecessary. pillsbury toaster strudel, the snow day of breakfasts. who wants pizza rolls?! ♪ ♪ this game day, fun harder with totino's pizza rolls. and blasted crust rolls. \s i'm peggy bunk ear. >x we're following developing news out of oakland where the port is atv;zhe a standstill aga ng west coast port dispute. eight annette miranda joining us now. the other 28 sea ports along the west coast are under full operations today. what's up in oakland. >> reporter: different story here in oakland. it's apparently over break times with the dispute over tentatively on friday night operations resumed last night. but somehow in the middle of today's day shift awrx problem came up andz the shipping companies suspended operations. and as you can imagine, that has just presented all kinds of problems. since that break, it's been a ghosttown here at the port of oakland. ks at the same time and the shipping companies as you can imagine would rather have the$+reak times staggered so the work can cw n there is work to catch up on. so labor was dismissed for thekpú day and the arbitrator was notified. it's nearly the end of the day now, too late to bring back the workers. the port of oakland sees this as more lost time on the heels of time lost during the dispute. >> the port of oakland is bitterly)> reporter: cargo ships areb waiting out in the bay to dock and unload. the other 28 sea portsjea along the today.im rs sinceqlvz] workers at other ports are on the clock this oakland break issue does not seem to affect thesí÷ maj
is here bringing in your feedback throughout the program. this is one of those topics where you feel like 10 years later, sort of out of sight, out of mind. >> horrific images seared into my mind. i will never forget it. but i think most americans are forgetting it. doubting tom says: 1010 years ago it was brought to light. you probably remember some of the images can be disturbing to see. food and water deprivation, pouring phos phoric liquids, feeding and rape. it was at a time the bush administration a conversation on torture and the threshold for obeying superior orders in times of war. many speculate abu ghraib was the tipping point that led to at a time. >> eliminating tore temperature. >> the united states of america does not torture. we can make that commitment here tonight. >> was it an end of enhanced interrogation techniques? there have been several cia secret prisons blow the radar. in t just this week, an afghan government commission claimed to have uncovered two secret prisons run by the u.s. and britain in southern afghanistan. in an upcoming u.s. senate report is set to trort testify black sites. what is the true legacy of abu ghraib and what does it mean for the nation's foreign policy and national security? we have great guests to discuss this onset. adam goldman. he has done extensive investigative reporting on cia secret prisons. on skype, karen greenberg, director of the center on national security and sebastian gork a, military affairs fellow at the foundation for the defense of democracies. welcome, everyone, to the show. adam, 10 years since everybody at abu ghraib was exposed. i remember at the time, there was public outrage. there was this incredibly high visibility in the media, in congress, and i think there was a sense of the american public that when it gets this much attention, obviously something is going to shift. has anything shifted significantly? >> i can tell you what hasn't shifted. we are still talking about quote, unquote torture. we are talking about what the american government did to these individuals in abu ghraib and more recently, what the cia did as part of this program to detainees and black sites, you know, across eastern europe and in thailand. and it seems that the government, the u.s. government, just can't escape its past. >> karen, by not escaping its past, does it continue it's former actions? >> well, i don't know if it continues its former actions, but it leaves open the possibility of continuing those actions, largely because the people who designed and implemented these policies -- and abu ghraib was only a very small part of the larger issue of a concerted torture policy. but the people who implemented and designed this have not been brought to justice, have not been held accountable in any way, have not been exposed for the most part to the public. therefore, it seems like a viable, non-punishable, however illegal, policy that went forward. and so, that's what we lived with in terms of the future of abu ghraib. >> we are talking about some current amnesia here kenneth says, unfortunately, none of my students have the slightest clue about the tragic legacy of abu ghraib. he calls it igen amnesia. you just heard karen. in the 10 years since abu ghraib, no high-level cia agent or private contractor has been charged or brought to trial. why is that? >> okay. let's stop confusing two different issues here. the idea that nobody was punished for abu ghraib is fallacious. >> i said nobody who designed or from a high level implemented the policy. >> as to what we are talking about with regards to being designed, but let's separate enhanced interrogation from abu ghraib. abu ghraib was not endorsed or designed by anybody. it was a group of mostly reserve military individuals who were out of control, and when it was uncovered, they were punished, soundly punished and court martialed. if you want to talk about enhanced interrogation and the cia procedures, that's another question. we can talk about that. but i think it's very interesting that the president has been given a dose of reality and he has kept in place most if not all of the procedures that his predecessor did, whether it was the use of drone strikes or other very, very muscular approaches to the threat. so let's not talk about the inheritance or legacy of abu ghraib because abu ghraib was not designed nor was it endorsed by anybody. it was a group of rogue actors that were punished. >> so -- >> can i respond? >> sure. go ahead. >> okay. it is true that those were rogue actors and what they called rotten apples at the time. there were five military reports done by the u.s. government officially after abu ghraib. there were many actually. the first five talked about the gray area between what the military was doing and what the presence of cia officers at prisons was doing. this is true at abu ghraib. this is true at guantanamo. so, yes, it is true to separate these stories but it is not true that the policies did not bleed into one another and were not used in a way that affected one another. so, yes. there were rogue apples. it was also a policy and thothose rotten appleales fit in to the agenda. the generals who ran abu ghraib from the interrogation side and detention side have attested to this. they are not inseparable as you have said, i don't think. >> adam, you know, the afghan government this week is saying they have identified two black sites operating on bases in afghanistan. we are expecting a congressional report on the same in jabuti. what's the didn't 2010 abu ghraib and what happened there and what's country going on at these black sites? >> listen. i don't know about cia-run black sites in afghanistan. what i know is according to the president of the united states, there are no cia-run detention facilities in the world. he stopped though. >> if the cia is running a clandestined prison, it is a huge story. i haven't seen any evidence that exists. the cia black sites run in thailand, poland, romania, lithuania. why were they? they were controlled by the cia, not the host governments. the cia had a facility in morocco. that was not a cia-run prison. that was run and controlled by the moroccans. big difference between what the cia was doing and what's happening now. there are examples of governments such as the kenyans, the somalis. you name the government -- holding people. they are probatixies for us. we go and visit them but we are not holding them. >> don't afghan intelligence services, agency, doesn't it have a pretty tight lockdown on what's happening within its country? >> we don't need a black site in afghanistan. they are part of a covert action. when the afghan intelligence service picks up people and takes them to a facility, the cia has an office there. they have people there. they can go. they can visit. but technically, the after gans are holding them. >> did her offered a definition of black sites: >> that's my definition. >> the 9-11 commission report recommended that there be specific guidance on treating foreign prisoners. almost a decade later, have we established a uniform law on how we treat international detain detainees? the answer is up next. >>. welcome back. we are discussing secret cia pripzs around the world 10 years after the american public learned of prisoner torture at abu ghraib. how has policy changed under obama? is there an official u.s. policy on detainees? >> yeah. that's a lablths large question. the issue of torture as you played the clip from president obama is essentially part of the past. the united states doesn't torture. it doesn't consider it i will to tore -- illegal to torture. it doesn't consider it okay that torture was performed in the past in the name of this country. in terms of detainee treatment, i think there is a broad swath that is not necessarily torture. you have to start with: do they have legal rights? how many of them are in definite detention? how many have access toss counsel? all of that has gotten better since the beginning of the war on terror. it's not where it needs to be. in terms of how we interrogate, the line is that the united states whether it's the military or others should follow the army field manual. >> does not include the kind of enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved for use at black site did and elsewhere. so, that's where we stand today, but really where we stand is not knowing what was done yet, and that's why i think there are two things that we need to talk about that are going on country. one is the senate report, which the intelligence committee has prepared, a 6 thousand-plus page report on what was done at these plaque sites and what kind of techniques were used and what kind of information was revealed during this time. and the other is: what's happening at guantanamo right now? which is that the military commissions and this their progress has been seriously impeded this week by the ruling of the judge that what happened at these black sites is going to have to be presented in court in conjunction with one of the 9-11 -- with one of the defendants. so these are two real-time oerpsz that are putting this administration and it's refusedal to really deal with the torture policy in a transparent way into the cross hairs of current event did. that's why talking about abu ghraib now is really very important and very pertinent to the current moment. >> sebastian, i want you to be back in the conversation? >> the fact is that we have continuity and we have change. we have certain issues that have been revised, the uniform code of military justice is now being seen to more closely which i warmly we believe. i thought always enhanced interrogation was a bad idea and, also, hopefully, there is less use of contractors in any form of interrogation. i have been an advocate that nobody should be doing interviewing or interrogation unless they are a federal agent or a member of the armed services so that they are in a recognized chain of command these are all things that are very difficult to the judge from the outside. abu ghraib, i think we have to put it to a complete and separate category as your guest has said, the enhanced interrogation measures have been manned by the current administration and i welcome that. >> we have sebastian on twitter says the fact that we, the united states, have secret black site prisons goes to show how much our empirical -- i think he is talking about empire -- is over-stepping his bounds. adam, i enjoyed the research you did on the black site in poland called corts. they turned cottages into black site prisons. there was waterboarding done there. who has over sitoversight? >> that's a question. there wasn't a lot of oversight. because the cia restricted the information that was begin out to the senate select committee only the chairman and vice chairman and two staff directors knew from congress from that side how could four people do oversight on a massive intelligence program from the cia, it's pretty clear there was not effective oversight in the program, itself. people forget an enormous amount of information has already come out about what happened in these black sides from the cia's inspector general, john hilgerson president obama declassified in 2009. we have an enormous amount of information on what happened there. it was clear from this report that people were using unauthorized techniques, techniques that were not approved, you know, they were doing mock executions. they were taking brushes, you know, and hard brushes across their skin. they were doing all sorts of things, and that's what's in common. >> that's what these black sites have in common with abu ghraib. i agree it was a bunch of yahoos who went rogue but it wasn't sanctioned by the general council's office of the pentagon. what we found in abu ghraib is the same thick we found in the same thing we found in poland and the same thing that the senate select schmidt on investigation is going to find in a cia black site in afghanistan that was closed down. the oversight, there was not proper oversight. >> that's the important connection between these two things. >> is it intentional that there is not proper oversight? >> yeah. i think so. i mean what happened on the senate select committee on intelligence is that the cia goes to the chairman and says we are going to brief you on this program, you and the vites veryman. in order for them to tell the full committee, they have to agree to it. the republican on the committee didn't. so, it pulls these oversight committees in a tough spot. i think that's going to come out. i think that's going to really come out. >> the site he was referring to, that was open for less than a year? >> a little longer. >> where did the detainees go when they are shifting from black site to black site? so many have closed down? >> i have tracked their movements in poland's case that closed i believe september 22nd, september 23rd, 2003. you can see from the flight data that the europeans made available that, you know, that prison was cleared out. i think they were put on a boeing 727 and it made stops in morocco and eventually ended up in romania. people from poland were dispersed to lithuania, roman i can't and morocco. >> what are the agreements like with these other governments? how does america get to take a prisoner from poland to morocco or to any other country? >> now, the europeans are learning to the full extent of how their government is operating with the cia. guess what. they are pissed. people are very angry. this is going to the european courts. i think it's possible they might recognize what happened to an individual named amu zubada and abnul mishuri in gitmo. >> we talked about black sites, detdeposition. is this a necessary evil in today's dirty war? gary said, since said necessary gained evil gained us so little no, it's only been successful at damaging image pabroad. >> lost in this conversation, what cheney and rest of them talk about is these are ticking time bombs. right? we need to know. we need to know what they know in order to stop the next attack. what americans forget is that in 2009, three guys from ing queens went off to pakistan, got trained by al-qaeda, were going to come back and blow up the new york city sub wachlthsz, an e-mail was intercepted. the f.b.i. interviewed one of the subjects. okay? this guy named nasha bulizazi, brought him to the fbi headquarters. what did they do? sat down and talked with him. they talked with him. what did he do three days later? he admitted everything. he admitted everything. this was the ticking time bomb scenario. you didn't need to get it from waterboarding, through slapping. you needed to get it through putting people on a liquid diet or in a box. they simply i had to them. this individual admitted to, to what happened. he turned on the other two co conspirtors. >> is that your recommendation for all terrorist suspects, that we should sit down with them and have a nice chat? >> i don't know. i talk to a lot of people. i sit down and have a chat and they tell me things they are not supposed to. >> sebastian, i am sure it goes against the grain of most american sensibilities when they see what happened at abu ghraib and hear these detailed reports but at the same time, we have to recognize that these are extracted incidents. it's not in context. how important is context in this? >> hugely important. say the individual you are sitting down with has sworn i am an alzawahiri and would wish nothing less than cutting your head off in the name of allah. so the idea that everybody is a terrorist is going to let everything spill out of the back if you ask them nicely. >> that's beyond naive. so, of course, everything is could be texas annual and your guest doesn't think all terrorists are nice people who will want to share all of their operational information with you. >> that's not -- >> adam, let me say something here the this is not about nights interrogation. it's not nice interrogation. very few people who have been in fbi custody asked about a crime are treated what we would call nicely although, you know, there may be stories to that effect. this is about lawfully interrogation this is about the kind of interrogation that goes on in a society of laws hand and one that goes on bar baric times. the reason this is importantbar. the reason this is important if you talk to fbi agents and others in law enforcement and adam, you can chime in they tell you whether it's naduabazi. they believe in their cause. >> ksm lied. ksm lied. >> he talked. he just said everything, you know. >> true. >> look. the report will address the f.b.i. agent who spent three months with abu zabata and they have learned he wasn't the number 3 in al-qaeda. they have learned from him many, many, many -- -- they got actionable intelligence by talking to him. >> all right. >> not by waterboarding him. >> on that note, thank you so much to our guest, adam goldman, karen greenberg. stay with us. up next on world press freedom day, we talk to journalists about the consequences of speaking truth to power including one who survived a recent assassination attempt on his life. >> on real money with ali velshi, a yearlong series, america's vanishing middle class... >> i'm on a mission, that i have to keep this business going... >> three families struggling every day >> we had to pull the whole retirement fund... >> real stories... real people... real advice... >> you need to pay the water bill, if you don't pay it, we're shutting your water off in a half hour >> how will you survive? >> the stakes are so high... >> america's middle class: rebuilding the dream on real money with ali velshi on al jazeera america consider this on al jazeera america >. >> ... welcome back. those were some photos showing support for some of our own al jazeera colleagues who have been detained for 126 days in egypt. one has been on a hunger strike since august. it's world press freedom day and a new report just out by the committee to protect journalists says global media freedom is at a 10-year low. a humbling experience around this topic? >> to celebrate our peers, i checked out the museum. >> 1 in 6 people live in a country where the press isn't free. the stream is coming at you from the newsuem. we are about about to check it out. >> journalists face serious dangers such as harassment, imprisonment and murder. the u.s. state department is calling on all governments to protect the freedom right of human of expression. >> an attack on press freedom is an attack on press freedom everywhere. journalism is not a crime. it isn't. >> however, the obama administration has used the espy onnage act to prosecute seven whistle blowers, more than all previous administrations combined. attacks in jummists have increased with more than 6 murdered in past 20 years. >> i am at the journalist memorial. all of the phases behind me are people who have died or been killed in the pursuit of news. >> in 2014 alone, 16 journalists were killed and 166 journalists remain in pripz worldwide including four of our al jazeera colleagues in egypt. >> joining us is rasa rumi and courtney raj for the committee to protect journalists. you had an attempt on your life. your driver was killed. our condolences to you. will you walk us through what happened? >> well, whatever happened was a shock to me as well. i am still trying to recover from that. basically, an extremist organization spread bullets on my car. i was lucky. i ducked and lay on the floor of the car and saved my life. but they thought they had sprayed enough bullets to have killed me and walked away but sadly, or luckily i lived to tell my story. you know, some of these attackers have been arrested by the police in pakistan. but it remains to be seen i am alive because of the general insecurity i faced, me and my family that had to be away from the country for some time. >> courtney, raza has a tendency to focus on topics that anger extremists, militants so as unpleasant as it is to think about, you can understand why he may be in harm's way. what is the safety and secured like for its not good in pakistan and around the world. in fact, we have seen rising numbers of journalists killed, journalits being imprisoned, going in to exile. i think that we have seen based upon covering politics is more dangerous than covering war. it's often those political topics that end up putting journalists like raza in harm's way. >> we have about 30 seconds left. what do you want people to remember about every journalist like yourself that's out there around the globe? >> well, i think the real key problem is that in many countries of the world, there is impunity. a culture of impunity which enables stackers to harm journalists. i think that has to be done away with. there has to be more global solidarity of mary, many other colleagues of ours who are facing very did i feel conditions and risk their lives to report the truth. >> thanks to our guests. until next time, raj and i will see you on online. >> this is al jazeera america. i am thomas drayton in new york. let's get you caught up on the top stories this hour. >> it was really tough. seven military observers are free in eastern ukraine. an attack that killed more than 40 russian supporters dramatically increases tensions in the country. the grim reality in afghanistan, thousands liable dead. many more thousands now homeless. >> the language of the blind, why braille may actually become extinct. we will take you to
where you feel like 10 years later, sort of out of sight, out of mind. >> horrific images seared into my mind. i will never forget it. but i think most americans are forgetting it. doubting tom says: 1010 years ago it was brought to light. you probably remember some of the images can be disturbing to see. food and water deprivation, pouring phos phoric liquids, feeding and rape. it was at a time the bush administration a conversation on torture and the threshold for obeying superior orders in times of war. many speculate abu ghraib was the tipping point that led to a. >> eliminating tore temperature. >> the united states of america does not torture. we can make that commitment here tonight. >> was it an end of enhanced interrogation techniques? there have been several cia secret prisons blow the radar. in t just this week, an afghan government commission claimed to have uncovered two secret prisons run by the u.s. and britain in southern afghanistan. in an upcoming u.s. senate report is set to trort testify black sites. what is the true legacy of abu ghraib and what does it mean for the nation's foreign policy and national security? we have great guests to discuss this onset. adam goldman. he has done extensive investigative reporting on cia secret prisons. on skype, karen greenberg, director of the center on national security and sebastian gork a, military affairs fellow at the foundation for the defense of democracies. welcome, everyone, to the show. adam, 10 years since everybody at abu ghraib was exposed. i remember at the time, there was public outrage. there was this incredibly high visibility in the media, in congress, and i think there was a sense of the american public that when it gets this much attention, obviously something is going to shift. has anything shifted significantly? >> i can tell you what hasn't shifted. we are still talking about quote, unquote torture. we are talking about what the american government did to these individuals in abu ghraib and more recently, what the cia did as part of this program to detainees and black sites, you know, across eastern europe and in thailand. and it seems that the government, the u.s. government, just can't escape its past. >> karen, by not escaping its past, does it continue it's former actions? >> well, i don't know if it continues its former actions, but it leaves open the possibility of continuing those actions, largely because the people who designed and implemented these policies -- and abu ghraib was only a very small part of the larger issue of a concerted torture policy. but the people who implemented and designed this have not been brought to justice, have not been held accountable in any way, have not been exposed for the most part to the public. therefore, it seems like a viable, non-punishable, however illegal, policy that went forward. and so, that's what we lived with in terms of the future of abu ghraib. >> we are talking about some current amnesia here kenneth says, unfortunately, none of my students have the slightest clue ghraib. he calls it igen amnesia. you just heard karen. in the 10 years since abu ghraib, no high-level cia agent or private contractor has been charged or brought to trial. why is that? >> okay. let's stop confusing two different issues here. the idea that nobody was punished for abu ghraib is fallacious. >> i said nobody who designed or from a high level implemented the policy. >> as to what we are talking about with regards to being designed, but let's separate enhanced interrogation from abu ghraib. abu ghraib was not endorsed or designed by anybody. it was a group of mostly reserve military individuals who were out of control, and when it was uncovered, they were punished, soundly punished and court martialed. if you want to talk about enhanced interrogation and the cia procedures, that's another question. we can talk about that. but i think it's very interesting that the president has been given a dose of reality and he has kept in place most if not all of the procedures that his predecessor did, whether it was the use of drone strikes or other very, very muscular approaches to the threat. so let's not talk about the inheritance or legacy of abu ghraib because abu ghraib was not designed nor was it endorsed by anybody. it was a group of rogue actors that were punished. >> so -- >> can i respond? >> sure. go ahead. >> okay. it is true that those were rogue actors and what they called rotten apples at the time. there were five military reports done by the u.s. government officially after abu ghraib. there were many actually. the first five talked about the gray area between what the military was doing and what the presence of cia officers at prisons was doing. this is true at abu ghraib. this is true at guantanamo. so, yes, it is true to separate these stories but it is not true that the policies did not bleed into one another and were not used in a way that affected one another. so, yes. there were rogue apples. it was also a policy and thothose rotten appleales fit in to the agenda. the generals who ran abu ghraib from the interrogation side and detention side have attested to this. they are not inseparable as you have said, i don't think. >> adam, you know, the afghan government this week is saying they have identified two black sites operating on bases in afghanistan. we are expecting a congressional report on the same in jabuti. what's the didn't 2010 abu ghraib and what happened there and what's country going on at these black sites? >> listen. i don't know about cia-run black sites in afghanistan. what i know is according to the president of the united states, there are no cia-run detention facilities in the world. he stopped though. >> if the cia is running a clandestined prison, it is a huge story. i haven't seen any evidence that exists. the cia black sites run in lithuania. why were they? they were controlled by the cia, not the host governments. the cia had a facility in morocco. that was not a cia-run prison. that was run and controlled by the moroccans. big difference between what the cia was doing and what's happening now. there are examples of governments such as the kenyans, the somalis. you name the government -- holding people. they are probatixies for us. we go and visit them but we are not holding them. >> don't afghan intelligence services, agency, doesn't it have a pretty tight lockdown on country? >> we don't need a black site in afghanistan. they are part of a covert action. when the afghan intelligence service picks up people and takes them to a facility, the cia has an office there. they have people there. they can go. they can visit. but technically, the after gans are holding them. >> did her offered a definition of black sites: >> that's my definition. >> the 9-11 commission report recommended that there be specific guidance on treating foreign prisoners. almost a decade later, have we established a uniform law on ho detainees? the answer is up next. >> weekday mornings on al jazeera america >> we do have breaking news this morning... >> start your day with in depth coverage from around the world. first hand reporting from across the country and real news keeping you up to date. the big stories of the day, from around the world... >> these people need help, this is were the worst of the attack took place... >> and throughout the morning, get a global perspective on the news... >> the life of doha... >> this is the international news hour... >> an informed look on the night's events, a smarter start to your day. mornings on al jazeera america >>. welcome back. we are discussing secret cia pripzs around the world 10 years after the american public learned of prisoner torture at abu ghraib. how has policy changed under obama? is there an official u.s. policy on detainees? >> yeah. that's a lablths large question. the issue of torture as you played the clip from president obama is essentially part of the past. the united states doesn't torture. it doesn't consider it i will to tore -- illegal to torture. it doesn't consider it okay that torture was performed in the past in the name of this country. in terms of detainee treatment, i think there is a broad swath that is not necessarily torture. you have to start with: do they have legal rights? how many of them are in definite detention? how many have access toss counsel? all of that has gotten better since the beginning of the war on terror. it's not where it needs to be. in terms of how we interrogate, the line is that the united states whether it's the military or others should follow the army field manual. >> does not include the kind of enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved for use at black site did and elsewhere. so, that's where we stand today, but really where we stand is not knowing what was done yet, and that's why i think there are two things that we need to talk about that are going on country. one is the senate report, which the intelligence committee has prepared, a 6 thousand-plus page report on what was done at these plaque sites and what kind of techniques were used and what kind of information was revealed during this time. and the other is: what's happening at guantanamo right now? which is that the military commissions and this their progress has been seriously impeded this week by the ruling of the judge that what happened at these black sites is going to have to be presented in court in conjunction with one of the 9-11 -- with one of the defendants. so these are two real-time oerpsz that are putting this administration and it's refusedal to really deal with the torture policy in a transparent way into the cross hairs of current event did. that's why talking about abu ghraib now is really very important and very pertinent to the current moment. >> sebastian, i want you to be back in the conversation? >> the fact is that we have continuity and we have change. we have certain issues that have been revised, the uniform code of military justice is now being seen to more closely which i warmly we believe. i thought always enhanced interrogation was a bad idea and, also, hopefully, there is less use of contractors in any form of interrogation. i have been an advocate that nobody should be doing interviewing or interrogation unless they are a federal agent or a member of the armed services so that they are in a recognized chain of command these are all things that are very difficult to the judge from the outside. abu ghraib, i think we have to put it to a complete and separate category as your guest has said, the enhanced interrogation measures have been manned by the current that. >> we have sebastian on twitter says the fact that we, the united states, have secret black site prisons goes to show how much our empirical -- i think he is talking about empire -- is over-stepping his bounds. adam, i enjoyed the research you did on the black site in poland called corts. they turned cottages into black site prisons. there was waterboarding done there. who has oveoversight? >> that's a question. there wasn't a lot of oversight. because the cia restricted the information that was begin out to the senate select committee only the chairman and vice chairman and two staff directors knew from congress from that side how could four people do oversight on a massive intelligence program from the cia, it's pretty clear there was not effective oversight in the program, itself. people forget an enormous amount of information has already come out about what happened in these black sides from the cia's inspector general, john hilgerson president obama declassified in 2009. we have an enormous amount of information on what happened there. it was clear from this report that people were using unauthorized techniques, techniques that were not approved, you know, they were doing mock executions. they were taking brushes, you know, and hard brushes across their skin. they were doing all sorts of common. >> that's what these black sites have in common with abu ghraib. i agree it was a bunch of yahoos who went rogue but it wasn't sanctioned by the general council's office of the pentagon. what we found in abu ghraib is the same thick we found in the same thing we found in poland and the same thing that the senate select schmidt on investigation is going to find in a cia black site in afghanistan that was closed down. the oversight, there was not proper oversight. >> that's the important things. >> is it intentional that there is not proper oversight? >> yeah. i think so. i mean what happened on the senate select committee on intelligence is that the cia goes to the chairman and says we are going to brief you on this program, you and the vites veryman. in order for them to tell the full committee, they have to agree to it. the republican on the committee didn't. so, it pulls these oversight committees in a tough spot. i think that's going to come out. i think that's going to really come out. >> the site he was referring to, year? >> a little longer. >> where did the detainees go when they are shifting from black site to black site? so many have closed down? >> i have tracked their movements in poland's case that closed i believe september 22nd, september 23rd, 2003. you can see from the flight data that the europeans made available that, you know, that prison was cleared out. i think they were put on a boeing 727 and it made stops in morocco and eventually ended up in romania. people from poland were dispersed to lithuania, roman i can't and morocco. >> what are the agreements like with these other governments? how does america get to take a prisoner from poland to morocco or to any other country? >> now, the europeans are learning to the full extent of how their government is operating with the cia. guess what. they are pissed. people are very angry. this is going to the european courts. i think it's possible they might recognize what happened to an individual named amu zubada and abnul mishuri in gitmo. >> we talked about black sites, detdeposition. is this a necessary evil in today's dirty war? gary said, since said necessary gained evil gained us so little no, it's only been successful at damagingabroad. >> lost in this conversation, what cheney and rest of them talk about is these are ticking time bombs. right? we need to know. we need to know what they know in order to stop the next attack. what americans forget is that in 2009, three guys from ing queens went off to pakistan, got trained by al-qaeda, were going to come back and blow up the new york city sub wachlthsz, an e-mail was intercepted. the f.b.i. interviewed one of the subjects. okay? this guy named nasha bulizazi, brought him to the fbi headquarters. what did they do? sat down and talked with him. they talked with him. what did he do three days later? he admitted everything. he admitted everything. this was the ticking time bomb scenario. you didn't need to get it from waterboarding, through slapping. you needed to get it through putting people on a liquid diet or in a box. they simply i had to them. this individual admitted to, to what happened. conspirtors. >> is that your recommendation for all terrorist suspects, that we should sit down with them and have a nice chat? >> i don't know. i talk to a lot of people. i sit down and have a chat and they tell me things they are not supposed to. >> sebastian, i am sure it goes against the grain of most american sensibilities when they see what happened at abu ghraib and hear these detailed reports but at the same time, we have to recognize that these are extracted incidents. it's not in context. how important is this? >> hugely important. say the individual you are sitting down with has sworn i am an alzawahiri and would wish nothing less than cutting your head off in the name of allah. so the idea that everybody is a terrorist is going to let everything spill out of the back if you ask them nicely. >> that's beyond naive. so, of course, everything is could be texas annual and your guest doesn't think all terrorists are nice people who will want to share all of their you. >> that's not -- >> adam, let me say something here the this is not about nights interrogation. it's not nice interrogation. very few people who have been in fbi custody asked about a crime are treated what we would call nicely although, you know, there may be stories to that effect. this is about lawfully interrogation this is about the kind of interrogation that goes on in a society of laws hand and one that goes on bar baric times. the reason this is important baric times. the reason this is important if you talk to fbi agents and others in law enforcement and adam, you can chime in they tell you whether it's naduabazi. they believe in their cause. >> ksm lied. ksm lied. >> he talked. know. >> true. >> look. the report will address the f.b.i. agent who spent three months with abu zabata and they have learned he wasn't the number 3 in al-qaeda. they have learned from him many, many, many -- -- they got actionable intelligence by talking to him. >> all right. >> not by waterboarding him. >> on that note, thank you so much to our guest, adam goldman, karen greenberg. stay with us. up next on world press freedom day, we talk to journalists about the consequences of speaking truth to power including one who survived a recent assassination attempt on his life. >> start with one issue education... gun control... the gap between rich and poor... job creation... climate change... tax policy... the economy... iran... healthcare... ad guests on all sides of the debate. >> this is a right we should all have... >> it's just the way it is... >> there's something seriously wrong... >> there's been acrimony... >> the conservative ideal... >> it's an urgent need... and a host willing to ask the tough questions >> how do you explain it to yourself? 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my co-host is here bringing in your feedback throughout the program. this is one of those topics where you feel like 10 years later, sort of out of sight, out of mind. >> horrific images seared into my mind. i will never forget it. but i think most americans are forgetting it. doubting tom says: 1010 years ago it was brought to light. you probably remember some of the images can be disturbing to see. food and water deprivation, pouring phos phoric liquids, feeding and rape. it was at a time the bush administration a conversation on torture and the threshold for obeying superior orders in times of war. many speculate abu ghraib was the tipping point that led to a. >> eliminating tore temperature. >> the united states of america does not torture. we can make that commitment here tonight. >> was it an end of enhanced interrogation techniques? there have been several cia secret prisons blow the radar. in t just this week, an afghan government commission claimed to have uncovered two secret prisons run by the u.s. and britain in southern afghanistan. in an upcoming u.s. senate report is set to trort testify black sites. what is the true legacy of abu ghraib and what does it mean for the nation's foreign policy and national security? we have great guests to discuss this onset. adam goldman. he has done extensive investigative reporting on cia secret prisons. on skype, karen greenberg, director of the center on national security and sebastian gork a, military affairs fellow at the foundation for the defense of democracies. welcome, everyone, to the show. adam, 10 years since everybody at abu ghraib was exposed. i remember at the time, there was public outrage. there was this incredibly high visibility in the media, in congress, and i think there was a sense of the american public that when it gets this much attention, obviously something is going to shift. has anything shifted significantly? >> i can tell you what hasn't shifted. we are still talking about quote, unquote torture. we are talking about what the american government did to these individuals in abu ghraib and more recently, what the cia did as part of this program to detainees and black sites, you know, across eastern europe and in thailand. and it seems that the government, the u.s. government, just can't escape its past. >> karen, by not escaping its past, does it continue it's former actions? >> well, i don't know if it continues its former actions, but it leaves open the possibility of continuing those actions, largely because the people who designed and implemented these policies -- and abu ghraib was only a very small part of the larger issue of a concerted torture policy. but the people who implemented and designed this have not been brought to justice, have not been held accountable in any way, have not been exposed for the most part to the public. therefore, it seems like a viable, non-punishable, however illegal, policy that went forward. and so, that's what we lived with in terms of the future of abu ghraib. >> we are talking about some current amnesia here kenneth says, unfortunately, none of my students have the slightest clue ghraib. he calls it igen amnesia. you just heard karen. in the 10 years since abu ghraib, no high-level cia agent or private contractor has been charged or brought to trial. why is that? >> okay. let's stop confusing two different issues here. the idea that nobody was punished for abu ghraib is fallacious. >> i said nobody who designed or from a high level implemented the policy. >> as to what we are talking about with regards to being designed, but let's separate enhanced interrogation from abu ghraib. abu ghraib was not endorsed or designed by anybody. it was a group of mostly reserve military individuals who were out of control, and when it was uncovered, they were punished, soundly punished and court martialed. if you want to talk about enhanced interrogation and the cia procedures, that's another question. we can talk about that. but i think it's very interesting that the president has been given a dose of reality and he has kept in place most if not all of the procedures that his predecessor did, whether it was the use of drone strikes or other very, very muscular approaches to the threat. so let's not talk about the inheritance or legacy of abu ghraib because abu ghraib was not designed nor was it endorsed by anybody. it was a group of rogue actors that were punished. >> so -- >> can i respond? >> sure. go ahead. >> okay. it is true that those were rogue actors and what they called rotten apples at the time. there were five military reports done by the u.s. government officially after abu ghraib. there were many actually. the first five talked about the gray area between what the military was doing and what the presence of cia officers at prisons was doing. this is true at abu ghraib. this is true at guantanamo. so, yes, it is true to separate these stories but it is not true that the policies did not bleed into one another and were not used in a way that affected one another. so, yes. there were rogue apples. it was also a policy and thothose rotten appleales fit in to the agenda. the generals who ran abu ghraib from the interrogation side and detention side have attested to this. they are not inseparable as you have said, i don't think. >> adam, you know, the afghan government this week is saying they have identified two black sites operating on bases in afghanistan. we are expecting a congressional report on the same in jabuti. what's the didn't 2010 abu ghraib and what happened there and what's country going on at these black sites? >> listen. i don't know about cia-run black sites in afghanistan. what i know is according to the president of the united states, there are no cia-run detention facilities in the world. he stopped though. >> if the cia is running a clandestined prison, it is a huge story. i haven't seen any evidence that exists. the cia black sites run in lithuania. why were they? they were controlled by the cia, not the host governments. the cia had a facility in morocco. that was not a cia-run prison. that was run and controlled by the moroccans. big difference between what the cia was doing and what's happening now. there are examples of governments such as the kenyans, the somalis. you name the government -- holding people. they are probatixies for us. we go and visit them but we are not holding them. >> don't afghan intelligence services, agency, doesn't it have a pretty tight lockdown on country? >> we don't need a black site in afghanistan. they are part of a covert action. when the afghan intelligence service picks up people and takes them to a facility, the cia has an office there. they have people there. they can go. they can visit. but technically, the after gans are holding them. >> did her offered a definition of black sites: >> that's my definition. >> the 9-11 commission report recommended that there be specific guidance on treating foreign prisoners. almost a decade later, have we established a uniform law on ho detainees? the answer is up next. >>. welcome back. we are discussing secret cia pripzs around the world 10 years after the american public learned of prisoner torture at abu ghraib. how has policy changed under obama? is there an official u.s. policy on detainees? >> yeah. that's a lablths large question. the issue of torture as you played the clip from president obama is essentially part of the past. the united states doesn't torture. it doesn't consider it i will to tore -- illegal to torture. it doesn't consider it okay that torture was performed in the past in the name of this country. in terms of detainee treatment, i think there is a broad swath that is not necessarily torture. you have to start with: do they have legal rights? how many of them are in definite detention? how many have access toss counsel? all of that has gotten better since the beginning of the war on terror. it's not where it needs to be. in terms of how we interrogate, the line is that the united states whether it's the military or others should follow the army field manual. >> does not include the kind of enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved for use at black site did and elsewhere. so, that's where we stand today, but really where we stand is not knowing what was done yet, and that's why i think there are two things that we need to talk about that are going on country. one is the senate report, which the intelligence committee has prepared, a 6 thousand-plus page report on what was done at these plaque sites and what kind of techniques were used and what kind of information was revealed during this time. and the other is: what's happening at guantanamo right now? which is that the military commissions and this their progress has been seriously impeded this week by the ruling of the judge that what happened at these black sites is going to have to be presented in court in conjunction with one of the 9-11 -- with one of the defendants. so these are two real-time oerpsz that are putting this administration and it's refusedal to really deal with the torture policy in a transparent way into the cross hairs of current event did. that's why talking about abu ghraib now is really very important and very pertinent to the current moment. >> sebastian, i want you to be back in the conversation? >> the fact is that we have continuity and we have change. we have certain issues that have been revised, the uniform code of military justice is now being seen to more closely which i warmly we believe. i thought always enhanced interrogation was a bad idea and, also, hopefully, there is less use of contractors in any form of interrogation. i have been an advocate that nobody should be doing interviewing or interrogation unless they are a federal agent or a member of the armed services so that they are in a recognized chain of command these are all things that are very difficult to the judge from the outside. abu ghraib, i think we have to put it to a complete and separate category as your guest has said, the enhanced interrogation measures have been manned by the current that. >> we have sebastian on twitter says the fact that we, the united states, have secret black site prisons goes to show how much our empirical -- i think he is talking about empire -- is over-stepping his bounds. adam, i enjoyed the research you did on the black site in poland called corts. they turned cottages into black site prisons. there was waterboarding done there. who has oveoversight? >> that's a question. there wasn't a lot of oversight. because the cia restricted the information that was begin out to the senate select committee only the chairman and vice chairman and two staff directors knew from congress from that side how could four people do oversight on a massive intelligence program from the cia, it's pretty clear there was not effective oversight in the program, itself. people forget an enormous amount of information has already come out about what happened in these black sides from the cia's inspector general, john hilgerson president obama declassified in 2009. we have an enormous amount of information on what happened there. it was clear from this report that people were using unauthorized techniques, techniques that were not approved, you know, they were doing mock executions. they were taking brushes, you know, and hard brushes across their skin. they were doing all sorts of common. >> that's what these black sites have in common with abu ghraib. i agree it was a bunch of yahoos who went rogue but it wasn't sanctioned by the general council's office of the pentagon. what we found in abu ghraib is the same thick we found in the same thing we found in poland and the same thing that the senate select schmidt on investigation is going to find in a cia black site in afghanistan that was closed down. the oversight, there was not proper oversight. >> that's the important things. >> is it intentional that there is not proper oversight? >> yeah. i think so. i mean what happened on the senate select committee on intelligence is that the cia goes to the chairman and says we are going to brief you on this program, you and the vites veryman. in order for them to tell the full committee, they have to agree to it. the republican on the committee didn't. so, it pulls these oversight committees in a tough spot. i think that's going to come out. i think that's going to really come out. >> the site he was referring to, year? >> a little longer. >> where did the detainees go when they are shifting from black site to black site? so many have closed down? >> i have tracked their movements in poland's case that closed i believe september 22nd, september 23rd, 2003. you can see from the flight data that the europeans made available that, you know, that prison was cleared out. i think they were put on a boeing 727 and it made stops in morocco and eventually ended up in romania. people from poland were dispersed to lithuania, roman i can't and morocco. >> what are the agreements like with these other governments? how does america get to take a prisoner from poland to morocco or to any other country? >> now, the europeans are learning to the full extent of how their government is operating with the cia. guess what. they are pissed. people are very angry. this is going to the european courts. i think it's possible they might recognize what happened to an individual named amu zubada and abnul mishuri in gitmo. >> we talked about black sites, detdeposition. is this a necessary evil in today's dirty war? gary said, since said necessary gained evil gained us so little no, it's only been successful at damagingabroad. >> lost in this conversation, what cheney and rest of them talk about is these are ticking time bombs. right? we need to know. we need to know what they know in order to stop the next attack. what americans forget is that in 2009, three guys from ing queens went off to pakistan, got trained by al-qaeda, were going to come back and blow up the new york city sub wachlthsz, an e-mail was intercepted. the f.b.i. interviewed one of the subjects. okay? this guy named nasha bulizazi, brought him to the fbi headquarters. what did they do? sat down and talked with him. they talked with him. what did he do three days later? he admitted everything. he admitted everything. this was the ticking time bomb scenario. you didn't need to get it from waterboarding, through slapping. you needed to get it through putting people on a liquid diet or in a box. they simply i had to them. this individual admitted to, to what happened. conspirtors. >> is that your recommendation for all terrorist suspects, that we should sit down with them and have a nice chat? >> i don't know. i talk to a lot of people. i sit down and have a chat and they tell me things they are not supposed to. >> sebastian, i am sure it goes against the grain of most american sensibilities when they see what happened at abu ghraib and hear these detailed reports but at the same time, we have to recognize that these are extracted incidents. it's not in context. how important is this? >> hugely important. say the individual you are sitting down with has sworn i am an alzawahiri and would wish nothing less than cutting your head off in the name of allah. so the idea that everybody is a terrorist is going to let everything spill out of the back if you ask them nicely. >> that's beyond naive. so, of course, everything is could be texas annual and your guest doesn't think all terrorists are nice people who will want to share all of their you. >> that's not -- >> adam, let me say something here the this is not about nights interrogation. it's not nice interrogation. very few people who have been in fbi custody asked about a crime are treated what we would call nicely although, you know, there may be stories to that effect. this is about lawfully interrogation this is about the kind of interrogation that goes on in a society of laws hand and one that goes on bar baric times. the reason this is important baric times. the reason this is important if you talk to fbi agents and others in law enforcement and adam, you can chime in they tell you whether it's naduabazi. they believe in their cause. >> ksm lied. ksm lied. >> he talked. know. >> true. >> look. the report will address the f.b.i. agent who spent three months with abu zabata and they have learned he wasn't the number 3 in al-qaeda. they have learned from him many, many, many -- -- they got actionable intelligence by talking to him. >> all right. >> not by waterboarding him. >> on that note, thank you so much to our guest, adam goldman, karen greenberg. stay with us. up next on world press freedom day, we talk to journalists about the consequences of speaking truth to power including one who survived a recent assassination attempt on his life. rtic. real reporting from around the world. this is what we do. al jazeera america. did he ha ... sgrfrming. good after be to you. welcome back to al jazeera america. i am morgan radford live in new york city. here are the stories we are following for you right now. held for kidnapping and murder, the high drama political release of irish politician jergerry ad who is released from principles today. plus a nation on the brink of war, violent clashes in ukraine as a police station comes under siege. he helping thousands of survivors in afghanistan after a massive landslide almost buried an entire town.
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class="nosel noCC"> 01406&q=tokyo">Tokyo 12, Nhk 10, China 10, Russia 5, Abdullah 5, Fuji 4, Okinawa 4, Afghanistan 4, India 3, Newsline 3, Iraq 3, Syria 3, Takara 3, Unesco 3, Eu 3, Yoshida 2, Nasha 2, Poroshenko 2, Ross Mihara 2, South Korea 2 Network NHK World Duration 00:31:00 Scanned in Philadelphia, PA, USA Language English Source Antenna Tuner Channel 35 Video Codec mpeg2video Audio Cocec ac3 Pixel width 704 Pixel height 480 Audio/Visual sound, color
class="nosel noCC"> 01406&q=tokyo">Tokyo 12, China 11, Nhk 10, Russia 5, Abdullah 5, Okinawa 4, Afghanistan 4, Eu 3, Takara 3, Unesco 3, Newsline 3, India 3, Iraq 3, Syria 3, Yoshida 2, Fuji 2, Nasha 2, Poroshenko 2, Ross Mihara 2, South Korea 2 Network NHK World Duration 00:31:00 Scanned in Philadelphia, PA, USA Language English Source Antenna Tuner Channel 35 Video Codec mpeg2video Audio Cocec ac3 Pixel width 704 Pixel height 480 Audio/Visual sound, color
class="nosel noCC"> 01406&q=china">China 16, Tokyo 10, Nhk 7, Russia 5, Abdullah 5, Taiwan 4, Afghanistan 4, Iraq 3, Syria 3, India 3, Newsline 3, Eu 3, Unesco 3, Fuji 2, Nasha 2, South Korea 2, Yoshida 2, Poroshenko 2, Bangkok 2, Ukraine 2 Network NHK World Duration 00:31:00 Scanned in Philadelphia, PA, USA Language English Source Antenna Tuner Channel 35 Video Codec mpeg2video Audio Cocec ac3 Pixel width 704 Pixel height 480 Audio/Visual sound, color