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>> lets bring that into hierarchy of football now. how many black owners are there? >> zero. >> how many black managers are there in the premiership? >> less than a handful. >> black coaches. >> a fair few. >> good. black referees? >> zero. >> back to my point. >> youve turned this around on me. youre interviewing me. >> the thing is, i always said this to people, if you cant see it, you cant be it. observers determine whether or not you progress to a higher league. yes. >> they say eight times ...

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