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It is about money and it is about whether federal laws were broken. and to explain why that matters im joined by my least salacious colleague, ari melber, the host of the beat, the nbc legal correspondent. it is easy to lose track in the conversation because somebody names stormy daniels and shes a porn star and the issue isnt whether it was for an affair or hush money it was that money that was paid that could have been influential in the campaign and the election of the presidency of the unite...

Tariffs could kill up to 40,000 auto jobs. that number amounts to nearly one third of the overall steel work force or equivalent of that. joining me now is the co-author of the analysis ben steel, senior fellow of international economics at counsel on foreign relations and with us is edward alden from the council on foreign relations specializing in u.s. economic competitiveness. good to see you both. thank you for being with us. ben, let me start with you. one of the reasons for thinking that t...

There are different reasons for getting rid of certain people. what are they? in this particular case, the president has -- seems to resisted john kellys controlling him as you said. but in particular, the things weve seen in the last week or so have been things that have specifically been worked around john kelly. in other words the president seems to be sending a message to john kelly, dont even try. >> yeah. and that is what has alarmed a lot of people, ali. is that the decision both on tarif...

Very happy because it means a lot to us in the industry. and people indirectly to the industry it means a lot also. >> well, like your towns and like mill towns, one of the things about steel is its like auto working, right? they create towns around it. so -- >> exactly. >> the pizza maker, the school, the car dealer, it all exists around an industry. but youve been in it for a long time. your dad was a steel worker, too? >> oh, yeah, my dad -- he was a steel worker like i said, back in the 80s....

At all if john kelly is twisting in the wind and as i reported weeks ago when kelly was in hot water about the rob porter scandal, trump let it be known that he was calling his predecessor reince priebus. >> and so part of this -- hes done this with jeff sessions in the past and he does it a lot. the president leaves people twisting in the wind. is his hope at all that some of the people might just resign on their own? >> i think that is a very good way to look at it. one of the concerns the pre...

President told me, this was availed shot at john kelly to say he is not going to be managed in the traditional way. >> and it seems unusual that a president should be able to work around his chief of staff. i think that says a lot about the chief of staff and the role that they are playing. but the bottom line is according to your article, the president is interviewing for replacements. i dont know how you do that with john kelly around. tell him to grab lunch and then book an interview. >> well...

And canada. then about steel jobs and then yesterday it was about jobs and it was about national security. give us some context. because some of this might be true and not be. what are we supposed to think about the fact that we have declined in manufacturing of steel and yet as ben said, we consume a lot of it. >> well i think the part of it that is most true is that china is a big problem. in a lot of sectors. and steel and aluminum and ship building, solar panels. you name it. the china subsi...

These men built harley davidsons. >> ive been here for 14 years. >> 16 years. >> 16. >> 17 years. >> reporter: by the end of next year theyll be building new careers and in some ways new identities. do you think of yourselves as harley guys? >> we used to. >> yeah, when we got hired in here, it was an excellent place to work. >> everybody ate and lived and breathed harley davidson. but theres been a lot of loyalty lost. >> reporter: facing declining sales at home, harley hopes to consolidate, ...

Related to this with use of his trump organization e-mails. so if its only michael cohen then he had a misstep by inviting this question in and using trump organization or perhaps suggesting there is more of a path to the trump organization which of course is the private entity, it is not the white house and it is not the campaign. so there are a lot of questions that will still need to be asked about where this leads. but it is certainly a new detail with significance. and it goes against what ...