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Cash payments like this are red flags. >> thats exactly right. i mean normal corporations you want to have accurate accounting and you also pay taxes. so why do people pay in cash? thats because they want to avoid whats going out the door and also whats coming in the door. and so this is consistent with us having no transparency on the taxes. but just picking up also on what jeff said, i think what makes this an interesting story for his testimony because its kind of silly in some ways is that i...

Next year. they suggested that this has no impact on long-term debt, because its for two years. look, you know this. the only people that will agree with me when i say this are the economists listening, left, right and center. in the middle of a recession where were just climbing out of it, the economy, unemployment is still at 9.7%. the idea of raising taxes and reducing spending is a prescription for disaster. no one is suggesting that. >> is the balance to that point -- do you think do we thi...

Youre the shuttle-ready projects guy. there should be more investment in infrastructure. should there be more of that before we focus on bringing down the deficit? >> we can do both. let me explain what i mean. the omnibus or the -- im sorry to sound like a senator here, or a wonk, but in the spending proposal for next year, we freeze discretionary spending. freeze it. freeze it. we think we have to start by -- all those things were tails on them, long-term impact, we should not be spending in t...