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Think, made two cases. she made the case for big structural change, but she also made the case for big structural change as of pragmatic election strategy. >> thanks for impacting that, michelle, because i think its a good point you make, that democrats who want someone to be -- who can beat donald trump and democrats who want a candidate who has big ideas, those two things arent mutually exclusive. is that what youre saying? >> yeah, i think absolutely. and i think that, again, theres the sort ...