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Constantly in opposition, being oposse opposed by environmentalists and really never able to recover their reputation. they would run focus groups with people and say exxon, and the first thing people would say in reply was valdese. that was kind of a black eye for these operators. >> you spent a lot of time with the ceo, lee raymond, who had a nickname. >> iron ass, if one can say that. >> you just did. >> i did. >> why was he the iron ass? >> he was a very direct, blunt, disciplinarian, seen b...