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Ceiling? >> we as a caucus along with senate counterparts will meet and discuss what it is we want out of the debt limit. we dont want nothing out of this debt limit. we will decide what it is we can accomplish out of this fight. one of the problems or concerned i have with the debt limit is we dont know when its going to hit. jack lew, the treasury secretary, has ultimate discretion on when this could occur. so the timing of this is very much in doubt. >> did the debt limit is not raised, exper...

David corn and ryan grim. both are msnbc contributors. lets start david and then go to ryan. this is an interesting combination. we think this is going to be a smooth season getting through the holidays. but theyre already lining up for the gun fight at the ok corral, if you will. sometimes between march and spring, they can shut down the american economy. and these guys say they dont want to do it. then they say were going to threaten to do it. mitch mcconnell is worried about being defeated. t...