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at one point, confronted eastman, basically, with the same sentiment. speaker: what were your prior interactions with eastman? eric herschmann: he described for me what he thought the ambiguity was in the statute and he was walking through it at that time. and i said to hold on a second. i want to understand what you're saying. you're saying that you believe the vice president acting as president of the senate can be the sole decision maker as to, under your theory, who becomes the next president of united states? and he said, yes. and i said, are you out of your effing mind? jake tapper: the vice president decided he could not buy in to eastman's theories. speaker: mr. short, was it your impression that the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president?
was that pat cipollone thought the idea was nutty and had, at one point, confronted eastman, basically, with the same sentiment. speaker: what were your prior interactions with eastman? eric herschmann: he described for me what he thought the ambiguity was in the statute and he was walking through it at that time. and i said to hold on a second. i want to understand what you're saying. you're saying that you believe the vice president acting as president of the senate can be the sole decision maker as to, under your theory, who becomes the next president of united states? and he said, yes. and i said, are you out of your effing mind? jake tapper: the vice president decided he could not buy in to eastman's theories. speaker: mr. short, was it your impression that the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues
eric herschmann and many others were appalled. jason miller: the way it was communicated to me was that pat cipollone thought the idea was nutty and had, at one point, confronted eastman, basically, with the same sentiment. speaker: what were your prior interactions with eastman? eric herschmann: he described for me what he thought the ambiguity was in the statute and he was walking through it at that time. and i said to hold on a second. i want to understand what you're saying. you're saying that you believe the vice president acting as president of the senate can be the sole decision maker as to, under your theory, who becomes the next president of united states? and he said, yes. and i said, are you out of your effing mind? jake tapper: the vice president decided he could not buy in to eastman's theories.
i'm joined tonight by charles burnun, the attorney for john eastman who is one of the former president's 18 co-defendants here. john east man is the one who told trump that pence could block certification of biden's win of the 2020 election. good evening. thank you for joining me. does your client, mr. eastman, want a speedy trial? >> as we stand here today, we are not prepared to make that demand. it is something we might think through as a thought experiment. i think we would be inclined not to do something similar to what mr. chesebro has done. >> reporter: go ahead. >> i was going to conclude by saying this is an enormously complicated case. i can only imagine what the discovery is going to look like. i think it's going to take time to work through all that. >> reporter: right now, you have
him what his itching ears wanted to hear. he is talking about your client there. >> i will say this about the former vice president. i want to -- i think the former vice president -- look at his insinnives around january 6. he had two choices. he could have said, dr. eastman, you may have a point, but i don't think there's any evidence of fraud or illegality here, as urm suggesting earlier. there would have been nothing inconsistent about that. the problem for viez president pence would be for obvious reasons that would be significantly dised avan tanlous to any future mrit cam campaign. the second option the vice president had, which is the one he chose, was to say, yes, a degree there was evidence of illegality and fraud, which he said publically at the time. but i think the constitution has tied my hands. i can't do anything about it.
of course it wasn't. is that a defense? why is he saying that still? >> dr. eastman believes very strongly, specifically that there were major problems with election illegalities, is the way he would phrase it, which is different than fraud. dr. eastman's contention is that many votes were cast in many states in contravention of the manner of the election set forth by the state legislatures which has constitutional underpinnings. in that, dr. eastman is not a voice in the wilderness. pence made statements along the same lines. his chief counsel has made statements along those lines. dr. eastman does very much still maintain that view today. >> reporter: secretaries of state, they had the right to change the way the elections wered aministers. there wasn't anything illegal. it wasn't fraudulent. it doesn't mean the 2020 election was stolen.
mr. eastman? >> no. not at all. in fact, council for mr. trump, not anyone that represents him in georgia, but i'm referring to mr. lauro, has made comments to that effect in media appearances, that it is their position that donald trump did exactly what we would expect him to do. he had a serious constitutional question to confront around the certification of the election. what does he do? he hires a constitutional law professor to advise him and follows that advice. we have no problem if that's a part of the defense that former president trump decides to mount in georgia. that's fine with us. >> reporter: he would have been following that advice against the advice of top officials who worked for him. the attorney general, top election officials, top attorneys in the white house. when your client left the jail here, he said he believes that the election was stolen, which
the consequence of taking that approach on january 6 is it aligns the vice president's evidence in opposition to eastman. i can't read his mind. he hasincentive to discredit eastman. i think that's very important context for anyone evaluating this case to appreciate. >> reporter: are you saying that mike pence had politics on his mind at the time? he was the one who came under pressure from people, including your client, to try to do something that he did not -- that everyone agrees -- everyone looking at the legal basis, that he did not have the ability to do. it sounds like you are saying he had politics in mind on january 6. >> all i can say is i can't read the vice president's mind. i don't know what his internal discussions were. the question is presented to the jury -- >> reporter: you can see what he
did. >> what were the incentives? i don't think it's debatable the vice president and his allies have an intensive to discredit as best they can the theories that dr. eastman put forward on that date. none of which, i continue to insist, were foreclosed by any supreme court or any precedent. you might not like his theories. you might think they are bad public policy consequences of the country. they were not foreclosed. >> reporter: there's no supreme court precedent for this. thank you for your time. thank you for coming on with the news you do not plan to ask for a speedy trial. reaction from a congressman to what we saw here in georgia tonight as donald trump is arriving back in new jersey after that criminal booking. booking number four.
if he is indicted over the role he played in trying to overturn the 2020 election, does it help for him to continue claiming that election was stolen? >> i would say two things. one is, dr. eastman, if you look at his record, he is a man of principle and not afraid to call it like he sees it. when he makes a comment like that, it's not a strategy. that's what he thinks. i think when you look at the trial, the issue that's going to be presented, perhaps some day to a georgia jury, is was there a good faith basis to cham various aspects of the 2020 election? did dr. eastman and the other defendants bring those challenges in good faith? we're confident the answer will be yes. >> reporter: i will say attorney general bill barr disagrees. you mentioned mike pence. i want to ask you about something he said. i don't think you have been asked about that. he said the president was surrounded by a group of crack pot lawyers that kept telling