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Order relative to a quid pro quo. and in the transcript itself, what the republicans are going to try and do is bring this back to the transcript itself, which there is no quid pro quo. and theres also no -- what he asked for was an investigation. pee didn he didnt ask for them to find him guilty without a trial without due process. he didnt ask them to dig dirt. >> that is the dirt. as soon as i hear jimmy schultz is under investigation, hes got stink on him. >> a lot of people have a lot of pr...

That a problem? >> sure, we had that with mueller, right, now that we are removing hearings -- leland: this isnt about mueller, this is about something else. >> right. leland, we have to remember that the vast majority of congress has been kept in the dark, im very fortunate to be on on the house foreign affairs committee and been in depositions, 75% of my colleagues have not been in the deposition, how are they supposed to make decisions -- leland: back to the original question, what is the fir...

Cipollone and mulvaney were on opsid sides of that. they have been at odds since the transcript, that bad fact set of the presidents or the rough transcript of the presidents conversation with the president of ukraine came out. it was cipollones decision to release it. mulvaney objected, as had others. the transcript itself, a lot of people in the white house and on the hill will say is, as you put it, just not a great set of facts to explain or defend. and so because of that, because of that, b...

Been doing much tv or anything because ive been trying to study the history of the three presidential impeachment proceedings and then compare it to all the evidence in ukraine thats come out over the last few weeks. and my ultimate conclusion -- and this will be part of a longer writing project -- is that i think that the president is going to be impeached. i dont think that he has any valid arguments to the contrary, and its very, very serious. and it started with, of course, the transcript, w...

Transpired and weve also been able to learn from our own reporting. so i think members of congress that are saying that, oh, this is hearsay and should not be believed, its, i think, getting tougher and tougher to make that argument. >> evan perez, thanks so much. well check back with you. here to discuss is former republican congressman and house manager in president clintons impeachment trial, bill mccullum. bill, good to see you again. >> good to be with you. >> thank you. what is your reac...

The mexican president, later got the transcript itself, and my colleagues trying to match that actually ended up getting their hands on the australia transcript and that was february 2nd, 2017. so just to show you, it was less than a month before president trump took office. michael flynn, his first national security adviser was still in place. but there was a lot of turmoil under his very short time in the administration. what was happening, what we discovered is there wasnt the normal protocol...

That the democrats are claiming. in fact, i actually believe that if speaker pelosi and the democrats are taken another 24 hours to make their decision and actually looked at the facts, which is the transcript itself, they might not have moved forward, because there is no quid pro quo. never to the president threatened the aid, nor did he with me, in other words, he never linked the aid to corruption in general or certainly not an investigation in particular, so he talked about the fact that he ...

Crime? is there enough wiggle room or is it a crime? >> well, the question with respect to impeachment isnt whether its a crime. its a political judgment and we now see tremendous number of democrats basically making the decision that this is sufficient for impeachment. the transcript itself, i think we just see a small piece of it. when the president comes out and says everybody thought this would be such a big deal, its the white house that unilaterally made this public, not the congress that ...

But we dont come out of this necessarily with any greater insight into donald trumps actions during the election year. paul: okay. in the transcript itself, did glenn simpson get the story straight about what triggered the fbis interest in the trump/russian ties? >> no. and, look, by the way, he had to issue a correction. he came out, and he got everybody excited. the press was all over it saying when they turned in this dossier, they were simply back up information that the fbi already had from...

And based on that, we use that for the most possible case. right now if im looking at the information, i have to reduce the credibility or the confidence. >> as we learn about that, we know that the actual words spoken determined what said it when we thought it was "all right. good night." and it was the copilot and now they are not sure. why does it really matter. thats my question for you. >> for it occurred under duress or in another manner, it may change one way or the other, but the pilot i...