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Were better thanning th were learning kurt volker plans to testify on thursday. volker is one of the state department officials who is mentioned in the whistleblower complaint. he resigned on friday as the envoy to ukraine. our panel is back. it is like a house of cards just falling in on itself right now. >> fast. but it is a different house this time versus mueller. because these are people like volker who are from the outside who are career civil servants who have for the most part very good ...

That were on paper. the difference is what the american people heard -- the american people heard is attorney general barr saying something different. i think what he was saying, let me clarify. this is what i said. by the way, im stepping down. i dont feel that democrats -- >> now we can impeach. >> the democrats have been talking about impeachment for months. >> lets talk about what barr said versus mueller. i agree. very little news that came out. one piece of news is mueller saying the way t...

The doj policy one, what was found with respect to obstruction of justice was a place where there was daylight. was this a punt to congress? the last one was, was there no evidence of conspiracy or was there insufficient evidence of conspiracy. >> let me stop you there. we have that sound bite. i want to play it so folks know what were talking about. lets see if we can pull that up in the control room there. bar talking about evidence of a trump campaign collusion versus mueller saying insuffici...

Conclusion in the book about mueller having drafted an indictment ready to go, ready to indict the president. i am concerned because hes a doj employee, he may have to vet with barr what hes about to say, and i would love to be a fly on the wall in a meeting like that, where its barr versus mueller. my money is always on mueller when it comes to truth and accuracy and decency. but i think youre absolutely right, steph, barr could put his fingerprint so to speak on whatever statement it is muelle...

To send a target letter to don junior and the acting ag says no, youre not. now we have the beginning of that crisis which we have known has been coming. its coming. when he says no, what does mueller do, go ahead and do it? then he could be fired for good cause? and then what does congress do? all of this is coming to a head. we have this epic battle that is, on some level, the trump versus mueller, but on the big battle is really is the president above the law? and we thought we had that resol...

Whether or not they get an obstruction case out it. >> the presidents sister happens to be a sitting federal judge. that would be interesting. ive looked around the panel. a lot of us have interviewed presidents. youre the only member who interviewed a president in a legal matter. what do you think the chances are of trump versus mueller face-to-face? >> i think that according to what mr. rudy giuliani says they will only let him be interviewed about collusion issue and not about obstruction. i ...

Presidents. youre the only member who interviewed a president in a legal matter. what do you think the chances are of trump versus mueller face-to-face? >> i think that according to what mr. rudy giuliani says they will only let him be interviewed about collusion issue and not about obstruction. i think thats a very wise strategic choice. here is an interesting thing that nobody has commented on. mueller and the presidents attorneys have been doing this dance for months now where mueller says i ...

Legal matter. what do you think the chances are of trump versus mueller face-to-face? >> i think that according to what mr. rudy giuliani says they will only let him be interviewed about collusion issue and not about obstruction. i think thats a very wise strategic choice. here is an interesting thing that nobody has commented on. mueller and the presidents attorneys have been doing this dance for months now where mueller says i want to interview you and the lawyers have been saying rudy giulian...

In nature, its more than a headache. it could be a criminal violation, and now he gave the everyday for that. its contingent on there being a tape tween michael cohen and donald trump. right now its in the air. >> the only one saying that is michael avenatti. he told jake tapper an hour ago, no doubt about it. there are these tapes. and if there are these tapes, that would explain why according to sources the president may be more concerned about the michael cohen investigation than the russia p...

Economy is better, we feel like isis is being taken on, that hes going out and killing terrorists and as long as thats happening then we -- you know, the personal, it might not be what we want our children to immolate but we can really disconnect the personal and the actual policies that the we feel donald trump is implementing to make our lives better. >> so peter baker, its heilemann here, i want to ask you this question to bring a couple pieces together. weve talked about these things related...