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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:48:00

>> coming up. >> i found another case where another man is claiming that he is innocent. >> a detective under fire. >> detective marty devlin was known as the golden marti and detective perfect. >> we put his story to the test. >> are you ready, mr. devlin? >> and behind bars, walter ogrod life is in danger. >> i said we are going to kill him before he gets out. >> you are visibly angry now. >> i was visibly angry then, and i'm still angry now. >> when dateline continues. symptoms from over 200 allergens. without knocking you out. feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. live claritin clear.

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:15:00

walt is just not a violent person. he's like a gentle giant. he would never hurt anyone. >> but to john and sharon, walter ogrod was the face of pure evil. what was it like to read those words, to read that confession that he made? >> heartbreaking. i hated him. >> it was hardly an open and shut case, walter ogrod had no criminal record. no physical evidence linked him to the crime. he did not resemble the sketch. and was not identified by a single eyewitness. and he immediately recanted his confession. still, in 1993, ogrod stood trial for murder. prosecutors were seeking the death penalty. >> he let tjat baby lie there and die, and put them in the trash. if that's not intent to kill then

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:46:00

affiliation with the case. we just said, here, take a look at what we got. tell us what barbara jean can tell us about how she died. >> according to the confession, ogrod hit the little girl over the head with a weight bar. at trial, prosecutors argued those blows were the cause of barbara jean's death. did the science support that? >> the science did not support it. >> and she says the original prosecutors should have noted that. >> we learned that the prosecution actually had evidence from an expert back at the time of trial, that suggested that barbara jean did not die of the injuries to her head, which is what the jury heard. instead, one of the experts said that the likely cause of death was asphyxia. >> that was just the beginning. her team determined the jury was given false, unreliable, and incomplete evidence. and even worse, prosecutors

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:35:00

police officer, days after meeting ogrod, hall asked his wife to find information about barbara jean horn's murder. >> i went to the library in philadelphia and they have all of the newspapers, so i would give him copies. >> hall then use those articles to learn about the case, so that he could create a confession that sounded plausible. >> i had the notes that he made of the ogrod case. i have it all right in front of me, how he made it up. i found our library print out of a newspaper article but this barber jean horn case. >> hall also shared the fabricated story with another snitch. >> he gave the story to another inmate, like he got the story from walter, but walter and jay never communicated together. >> both snitches went to prosecutors claiming they each heard the same story from ogrod,

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:16:00

maybe i haven't seen it yet. >> the prosecution's case rested entirely on the confession. walter ogrod took the stand in his own defense. he testified that the detectives had run a false confession out of him. he makes the case that the confession was forced out of him. he was coerced. how did it make you feel to hear him describe that story? >> angry. i sat in that trial. and the only thing i could think of was getting my hands around his throat. >> the jury got the case. and returned with a verdict. and when it did. john would be the one lead out of the courtroom in handcuffs. >> a stunning announcement from the jury box, leaves both sides in disbelief. coming up! >> the foreman stood up and said yes we've reached a verdict, and literally opened his mouth to start reading it. when one juror stood up and said i don't know how i feel about this. >> a crazy confrontation in that courtroom.

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:31:00

campaigns came to an abrupt end. >> congressman allen was shot five times and critically wounded today. >> he was assassinated by of deranged former student. >> i was ten years old when my father was murdered. >> how did your father's death affect you as you grew up, as you became an adult? >> it made me really angry. for a long time. >> tom was devastated by his father's death, but inspired by his example of helping others, wanted to do the same. he became a writer focusing on the justice system, so when that letter from walter ogrod showed up, tom began to learn everything he could about the case. >> he had signed every page of the 16-page confession and you think oh wow, that is damning. and then you read that the first jury voted to acquit him. >> tom spoke with a dozen people who knew ogrod before he was arrested, none believed he committed the crime. >> there is no evidence

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:44:00

five years later, he met tom lowenstein. >> he just had to dig and dig, he was relentless. >> in 2004, tom wrote a lengthy two part series for the philadelphia city paper, which included everything that he had learned about ogrod's case. a series of attorneys took on that case pro bono. >> we had the benefit of a good bit of journalistic work that have been done by tom lowenstein. >> but to build a strong argument for an appeal, with rollins and his team would have to do their own investigation. >> there is no physical evidence tying mr. ogrod to this crime. how he has presented himself throughout was i am innocent, i did not commit this crime. >> it took them seven years, but by 2011 they had amassed thousands of pages, undermining the prosecutor's case, including affidavits from snitch john hall and his wife phyllis, laying out the scheme against ogrod. >> how hopeful were you at that moment?

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:47:00

failed to disclose evidence favorable to ogrod including a personality profile from their own experts, concluding that we ogrod is a person easily manipulated. >> frankly, it shocked me and i think it shocked some other people as to some of the evidence that was in that file that was not turned over. >> when i spoke with cummings in the spring of 2020, she told me that it was time to act. so what are you asking the court to do? >> we are asking the court to vacate the conviction, because we believe the conviction as it stands is a gros miscarriage of justice. >> it is an extraordinary admission, rarely heard from a prosecutor. >> in a case where you say, we got it wrong, and not only did we get it wrong, but we think this person is innocent, that ought to concern, scare anybody. >> but would it be enough to free walter ogrod?

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:25:00

barbara jean horn's murder, and you could soon be faced with a difficult question. what would sharon and john think if turned out that neither jury had her the real story. >> doubts surface as lowenstein dives deeper into the case, what is the wrong man behind bars? coming up, that prism snitch who helped secure the verdict, someone was about to snitch on him. >> i was like, do you think he lied about we walter ogrod. and she said i know we did. >> i said how do you know he did, said because i helped do it. >> someone is on death row because of what he got out of it. >> when dateline continues. help getting free medication. trelegy for copd. ♪birds flyin' high, you know how i feel.♪ ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing]

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:59:00

is he really getting out today? >> i think i am in a state of shock. >> i am so hyped up now. everything is racing right now. it has been like that since i walked out. it is going to take a while. >> what do you hope for him now? >> i just want him to be happy. >> walter ogrod filed a civil suit against the city of philadelphia and several police officers, including detective devlin. the defendants have all denied any wrongdoing. meanwhile, as the case makes its way through the courts, police has reopened the investigation into barbara jean 's murder. tom lowenstein has investigated the little girl's case longer than anyone. it is a journey that he is grateful he took. >> when walt got out on june 5th, there is that sense of, like my dad saying, that notion of being useful and doing something useful in life. and i definitely, that day, it felt useful.

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