Transcripts For ALJAZ Frederik De Klerk 20171014 : vimarsana

Joseph is on thirty one percent is likely theyll be a runoff next month thats fifty percent of those needed to victory. Well those were the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera talked about a service station thats off. In the hash tag hero when News Coverage of looking for an easy solution we delved deeper from on this and challenge the status quo join me man the hot sun for a new season of our front at this time this era. You. Would see this. The stage is now he promised himself to get for the for his countrys apartheid system and its Nuclear Weapons program. Those were the two major goals for drink the city for himself as he became south africas president in one nine hundred eighty nine. After negotiations with Nelson Mandela apartheid was indeed dismantled other people here still dealing with its aftermath. Half of the population live in poverty the fear of violence is in demick and the Political Leadership is constantly facing corruption allegations. Today on talk to all dizzy about former president de klerk and what happened to the lofty goals of the one nine hundred eighty. But we begin with Nuclear Weapons today as the world is dealing with north korea and looking for a way out it may be worth remembering that south africa was the first concrete to voluntarily dismantle its nuclear bomb. We start by asking him what prompted his country to develop the weapons in the first place why did you need the bomb and did you really believe that one day you might have used that bomb against who. I dont think we needed the ball but some of my pretty says just that i dont think it was everything to incent to use the bow they wanted to use it as a deterrent and to strengthen south africas International Position when i became at a fairly young age minister my middle and Energy Affairs i was informed about this cabinet never knew about our atom bombs being made at that un dabo so at the time it was a secret thing it would be only mean to me need to know basis people knew about even ministers even minister us but as minister of mooing Energy Affairs i had to know because helen dollar fell under me and then. The year when i knew him in the richmond plant fell under me so that to inform me at that point i decided quietly in my heart if ever im in a position to rid itself of africa all those bombs i would do so well who was your reaction first reaction when you learned when you were informed about this i mean were you shocked i was i was quite shocked or those. Rumors were flying around in your mind internationally and in south africa but i was quite shocked to know that weve started on that project when i became president six and a half of those bombs have been made. And one of the first things i did was to call that same group on a need to know basis together and said were going to sign the n. P. T. Lets plan now we do it were going to demolish those bombs and were going to open up all our facilities for full inspection. And that is what we did south africa. Was just about the only country that voluntarily gave up its Nuclear Weapons how do you think the world would. Get countries like north korea and israel to give up the us i dont think theres any quick fix for that situation or a simple recipe what i do believe ynys a Nuclear Weapon free world are advocated and ive done so from many platforms in the past years those who have it legitimately in terms of International Law and agreements need to be part of the solution the basis on which for instance the usa england france and russia where now to have it and continue to have it but others not has fallen away that was how the balance of power was at the end of the Second World War that balance of power have changed fundamentally so the starting point for a big review of the whole issue of. Nuclear weapons lies in a new debate but not just a debate in a new round table discussion to review and revise existing agreements with a view to reach a new agreement which says all those who have legitimately and illegitimate will get rid of it. Organized methodical way which wont disturb the balance of power they need to reach a new agreement on the Nuclear Ice Age there has been speculation that south africa cooperated with is well on its Nuclear Weapons program. This is an allegation dick lick me that denies no confirms i really cant help feeling that youve got i know about the emigration that there was a close call but i shouldnt i was never part of such call but i shouldnt and i never had information which justify such allegations. But in a recent interview with south africas former intelligence minister randy casseroles told us hes will and south africa were close partners it helped South African apartheid create seven Nuclear Devices talk about they concern of the device from iran in terms of the safety they showed no you know competence and no come said responsibility in terms of putting Nuclear Devices in the hands of an apartheid monster that was threatening the very lives of all the African People of this entire region i wasnt involved in anything like that and i have never been properly informed about anything like that so i cant take it for. There have also been reports that South African israel Work Together to test missiles capable of carrying Nuclear Weapons im not aware of any tests having mean done on south africa and so on. Nuclear weapons yes i dont know to what extent is that i was involved but we did start to develop in the western cape. Program. Which never really fully got off the ground. It was built on the on the south coast of the western cape. While in our free zone. I know because i used it in the past that way which contained a boeing seven hundred seven and the like but are not being involved i cant give any details information about that. The code word for the Nuclear Program was blamed on them as with the word that means end of the story or the final is a word that could also be used to capture the end of the apartheid system. When did you realize that it was time of linda and of the story for the whole apartheid system the regime itself that it was time for it to go i did not have a sudden moment when i had one night went to bed and thought separate development as we preferred united on to call apartheid is that i policy and the next morning i woke up and said it was all wrong by eighty six i was convinced in my heart that we need to undertake far reaching and very fundamental steps to change this situation was the that process taught that that based on moral grounds or was it just for programmatic reasons that you realize that it was that theres no way if there was no way to win that war against the majority of the most of us it was a model. In the end i realized that the old system has failed to bring justice to all the people of south africa in my younger days i believe separate Development Nation states. Some forming Something Like the European Union a South African Union could bring justice to everybody when i admitted to myself it has failed to do so i came to the conclusion one cannot continue with a policy which you knew leads to injustice to a majority of all the people in the country and therefore that we had to stop trying to make separate development a part think more acceptable sulfa ning it in and softening in then we had to abandon the whole concept of the vision. And in its place put a new concept of inclusive it. And that was the vision which was developed within the National Party in nineteen ninety six nine hundred eighty seven we then went to the white electorate in eighty seven with an election asking for in broad terms every form mandate then i became a leader of the National Party in one thousand nine hundred ninety i no longer had to look for a new vision ive already embraced a new vision of one united south africa with all South Africans having a vote of equal value but a new south africa in which there would be no no racialism a new south africa in which no one group would be able to dominate and suppress another group a new south africa with a strong constitution which could prevent the misuse of power by any future government it is with that vision that i ended the presidency in one thousand nine. And i saw my challenge and accepted that chapmans that that vision needs to be implemented in practice within one of office within five years. When i first met the civil years ago he looked forward to a brighter future. Today south africa is facing one political Corruption Scandal after another often involving the countrys leadership. The fear of violence is widespread so is xenophobia and many poor blacks are still living in shantytowns what went wrong since the time we met when you were sold to this think about the future of south africa well let me start out by saying im very concerned about the present state of affairs but i havent lost all my optimism i still believe that the damage which has been done in the past ten fifteen years can be the path it will take quite a number of yes but we have not been damaged beyond repair you ask what went wrong what doing to wrong is firstly that in the field of Economic Policy making we have diverted from very good well balanced economic policies which resulted in five percent even up to five percent and real growth in the early two thousand and the late ninety nine. And we have the stuff. And undermined Investor Confidence we no longer getting the new investments would be quiet to maintain Economic Growth without Economic Growth we can begin to address the problem of extremely high unemployment. What went wrong is we had new Political Leadership in the person of president zuma and under him corruption i flourished and cadence have been drawn together. In the reaching themselves a small elite are all being the state institutions like the Electricity Supply Commission Like the south African Airways and other that i stayed. In directly or not at your money through going up transactions and. Sort of. Procedures which are not being followed so bad leadership. Has led us to a point where the president of the country as the last piece credibility. With those who dont support the a. N. C. I think is fully lost. But within the ruling party the African National congress theres been more than one motion of no confidence. In him from his own people the a. N. C. Being torn apart by faction fighting at the moment and we dont have clear well balanced credible and morally sound Political Leadership in south africa its tragic but it might change. A political prisoner cook and now boiling in south africa that says an explosion can be avoided but only if the a. N. C. As we know it is radically changed. What i think will happen is the a. N. C. Will split because you have in the same party. Through red communist you have people committed to free enterprise. You have people with totally different ideological and policy principles in which they believe too many contradictions within the same party absolutely and that cannot last so i see how we talking like this and i think that will be a healthy force of it within the end within the a. N. C. Itself apart from the communist party apart from call center so when that split us it will put south africa in the position that it can normalize its politics away from a racially based polity. Towards principle by cysts for politics away from ethnically diverse in politics towards policy driven politics where people who believe in the same things irrespective of racial color can take cans and Work Together because they believe in the same things it will be a rough ride to get to that point quite around for a year but i believe that is when we will be breakthrough to come or want us and when south africa will get on course again to fulfil its tremendous potential how do you interpret you know things like black life matters black lives matter in the United States and are we seeing the same thing in south africa differently well racism is a problem in south africa it didnt disappear with the agreements which we reached with our new constitution which is committed to non racialism it exists on all sides theres white racism and theres black racism. And in that sense of the word yes its a problem like it is you know america stuff but like it is in europe and other parts of the world too and racism is not unique it just manifests itself in a different way in Different Countries south africa. Copied many ideas from the United States after the end of the racism system like the affirmative action when do you think we would see an end to these code. System based on color and based on race when are we coming to see employment employing. Somebody just for them a fact that he or she a good well isnt it first you say they ease a need and a room for affirmative action and black Economic Empowerment in south africa that media is acknowledged in the constitution which we need go sharing and the constitution as it stands at the moment says a balance need to be struck between merit Education Training experience on the one hand and the issue of black Economic Empowerment and black affirmative action. That balance has not been struck in south africa why because the powers that be are developing policies which is you know the specter of man it blacks must be appointed and the seven percent each in a regent way in each state Department Must be achieved even though properly trained available people from a particular group are not available. If a country has only so many engineers. Theyd say sixty percent of the engineers are white and forty percent off color then you can say seventy five percent of the jobs must be for engineers of color in only twenty five percent of all whites they arent sufficient lead trained people of color to full the posts so in an unbalanced way affirmative action has led to that service the liberty has led to bad management has led to losses has led to. Mal administration of budgets not because the people involved are people of color but because they havent been turned sufficiently for that job so that on a point that theyre not specialists but they are put into specialist positions we can just carry on and carry on for ever on that basis there needs to be an organized in the meantime we are experiencing a brain drain not only of White South Africans immigrating but also black and colored and indian and South Africans immigrate because they feel that they are not given sufficient opportunity within the economy and the industry of south africa itself being a president and commander in chief certain operations both military and intelligence have to be authorized from you. Want where the the toughest and the most painful places that you had authorized yet you had to you did authorize them well the saddest one was i had from both the Defense Force and the police it a few to bull evidence according to them. That house in the old brown sky since sky was being used as a cache and that arms from that house have been used in deeds of terror on the basis of that evidence i wanted to cross border offensive to clear up that house but i said it must go and the man with minimum violence and we must prevent people being killed if at all possible what you said this was around about ninety ninety two i cant remember the exact. And what happened they went in they killed some youths who were there were throwing so yes. And to this day people are holding it against me i did it on the basis of objective evidence and it is the project which went totally wrong i apologize for it and we saw to eat that there were some. That the families of the people were somehow or another helped along. But i in my time we started with their owing from where we were. We started demilitarizing the whole situation in south africa in my time i wasnt involved in major operations outside to inside our borders which i had to authorize i had to normalize their own of police and normalize not only of the army in no longer playing a political role whatsoever but in just doing what their main tasks are the police to protect all South Africans. Their safety and their property and their security the army to protect our borders and to assist wherever necessary in my job but i look at life when you were president i could fall asleep wake up the next morning fresh for the new challenges but what did keep me up now and then was the great responsibility and realize ation that in many big issues there are no easy choices and that whatever choices you might well also have a positive consequence some negative consequence and one needs to live with that president thank you so much for talking to all this is. The rain forest of the state we continue on our current way we might have a whole race within twenty thirty forty years from now so youre trying to recreate the ecosystem but under controlled conditions the old so the ballot bowl still sucks for them because the News Coverage<\/a> of looking for an easy solution we delved deeper from on this and challenge the status quo join me man the hot sun for a new season of our front at this time this era. You. Would see this. The stage is now he promised himself to get for the for his countrys apartheid system and its Nuclear Weapons<\/a> program. Those were the two major goals for drink the city for himself as he became south africas president in one nine hundred eighty nine. After negotiations with Nelson Mandela<\/a> apartheid was indeed dismantled other people here still dealing with its aftermath. Half of the population live in poverty the fear of violence is in demick and the Political Leadership<\/a> is constantly facing corruption allegations. Today on talk to all dizzy about former president de klerk and what happened to the lofty goals of the one nine hundred eighty. But we begin with Nuclear Weapons<\/a> today as the world is dealing with north korea and looking for a way out it may be worth remembering that south africa was the first concrete to voluntarily dismantle its nuclear bomb. We start by asking him what prompted his country to develop the weapons in the first place why did you need the bomb and did you really believe that one day you might have used that bomb against who. I dont think we needed the ball but some of my pretty says just that i dont think it was everything to incent to use the bow they wanted to use it as a deterrent and to strengthen south africas International Position<\/a> when i became at a fairly young age minister my middle and Energy Affairs<\/a> i was informed about this cabinet never knew about our atom bombs being made at that un dabo so at the time it was a secret thing it would be only mean to me need to know basis people knew about even ministers even minister us but as minister of mooing Energy Affairs<\/a> i had to know because helen dollar fell under me and then. The year when i knew him in the richmond plant fell under me so that to inform me at that point i decided quietly in my heart if ever im in a position to rid itself of africa all those bombs i would do so well who was your reaction first reaction when you learned when you were informed about this i mean were you shocked i was i was quite shocked or those. Rumors were flying around in your mind internationally and in south africa but i was quite shocked to know that weve started on that project when i became president six and a half of those bombs have been made. And one of the first things i did was to call that same group on a need to know basis together and said were going to sign the n. P. T. Lets plan now we do it were going to demolish those bombs and were going to open up all our facilities for full inspection. And that is what we did south africa. Was just about the only country that voluntarily gave up its Nuclear Weapons<\/a> how do you think the world would. Get countries like north korea and israel to give up the us i dont think theres any quick fix for that situation or a simple recipe what i do believe ynys a Nuclear Weapon<\/a> free world are advocated and ive done so from many platforms in the past years those who have it legitimately in terms of International Law<\/a> and agreements need to be part of the solution the basis on which for instance the usa england france and russia where now to have it and continue to have it but others not has fallen away that was how the balance of power was at the end of the Second World War<\/a> that balance of power have changed fundamentally so the starting point for a big review of the whole issue of. Nuclear weapons lies in a new debate but not just a debate in a new round table discussion to review and revise existing agreements with a view to reach a new agreement which says all those who have legitimately and illegitimate will get rid of it. Organized methodical way which wont disturb the balance of power they need to reach a new agreement on the Nuclear Ice Age<\/a> there has been speculation that south africa cooperated with is well on its Nuclear Weapons<\/a> program. This is an allegation dick lick me that denies no confirms i really cant help feeling that youve got i know about the emigration that there was a close call but i shouldnt i was never part of such call but i shouldnt and i never had information which justify such allegations. But in a recent interview with south africas former intelligence minister randy casseroles told us hes will and south africa were close partners it helped South African<\/a> apartheid create seven Nuclear Devices<\/a> talk about they concern of the device from iran in terms of the safety they showed no you know competence and no come said responsibility in terms of putting Nuclear Devices<\/a> in the hands of an apartheid monster that was threatening the very lives of all the African People<\/a> of this entire region i wasnt involved in anything like that and i have never been properly informed about anything like that so i cant take it for. There have also been reports that South African<\/a> israel Work Together<\/a> to test missiles capable of carrying Nuclear Weapons<\/a> im not aware of any tests having mean done on south africa and so on. Nuclear weapons yes i dont know to what extent is that i was involved but we did start to develop in the western cape. Program. Which never really fully got off the ground. It was built on the on the south coast of the western cape. While in our free zone. I know because i used it in the past that way which contained a boeing seven hundred seven and the like but are not being involved i cant give any details information about that. The code word for the Nuclear Program<\/a> was blamed on them as with the word that means end of the story or the final is a word that could also be used to capture the end of the apartheid system. When did you realize that it was time of linda and of the story for the whole apartheid system the regime itself that it was time for it to go i did not have a sudden moment when i had one night went to bed and thought separate development as we preferred united on to call apartheid is that i policy and the next morning i woke up and said it was all wrong by eighty six i was convinced in my heart that we need to undertake far reaching and very fundamental steps to change this situation was the that process taught that that based on moral grounds or was it just for programmatic reasons that you realize that it was that theres no way if there was no way to win that war against the majority of the most of us it was a model. In the end i realized that the old system has failed to bring justice to all the people of south africa in my younger days i believe separate Development Nation<\/a> states. Some forming Something Like<\/a> the European Union<\/a> a South African Union<\/a> could bring justice to everybody when i admitted to myself it has failed to do so i came to the conclusion one cannot continue with a policy which you knew leads to injustice to a majority of all the people in the country and therefore that we had to stop trying to make separate development a part think more acceptable sulfa ning it in and softening in then we had to abandon the whole concept of the vision. And in its place put a new concept of inclusive it. And that was the vision which was developed within the National Party<\/a> in nineteen ninety six nine hundred eighty seven we then went to the white electorate in eighty seven with an election asking for in broad terms every form mandate then i became a leader of the National Party<\/a> in one thousand nine hundred ninety i no longer had to look for a new vision ive already embraced a new vision of one united south africa with all South African<\/a>s having a vote of equal value but a new south africa in which there would be no no racialism a new south africa in which no one group would be able to dominate and suppress another group a new south africa with a strong constitution which could prevent the misuse of power by any future government it is with that vision that i ended the presidency in one thousand nine. And i saw my challenge and accepted that chapmans that that vision needs to be implemented in practice within one of office within five years. When i first met the civil years ago he looked forward to a brighter future. Today south africa is facing one political Corruption Scandal<\/a> after another often involving the countrys leadership. The fear of violence is widespread so is xenophobia and many poor blacks are still living in shantytowns what went wrong since the time we met when you were sold to this think about the future of south africa well let me start out by saying im very concerned about the present state of affairs but i havent lost all my optimism i still believe that the damage which has been done in the past ten fifteen years can be the path it will take quite a number of yes but we have not been damaged beyond repair you ask what went wrong what doing to wrong is firstly that in the field of Economic Policy<\/a> making we have diverted from very good well balanced economic policies which resulted in five percent even up to five percent and real growth in the early two thousand and the late ninety nine. And we have the stuff. And undermined Investor Confidence<\/a> we no longer getting the new investments would be quiet to maintain Economic Growth<\/a> without Economic Growth<\/a> we can begin to address the problem of extremely high unemployment. What went wrong is we had new Political Leadership<\/a> in the person of president zuma and under him corruption i flourished and cadence have been drawn together. In the reaching themselves a small elite are all being the state institutions like the Electricity Supply<\/a> Commission Like<\/a> the south African Airways<\/a> and other that i stayed. In directly or not at your money through going up transactions and. Sort of. Procedures which are not being followed so bad leadership. Has led us to a point where the president of the country as the last piece credibility. With those who dont support the a. N. C. I think is fully lost. But within the ruling party the African National<\/a> congress theres been more than one motion of no confidence. In him from his own people the a. N. C. Being torn apart by faction fighting at the moment and we dont have clear well balanced credible and morally sound Political Leadership<\/a> in south africa its tragic but it might change. A political prisoner cook and now boiling in south africa that says an explosion can be avoided but only if the a. N. C. As we know it is radically changed. What i think will happen is the a. N. C. Will split because you have in the same party. Through red communist you have people committed to free enterprise. You have people with totally different ideological and policy principles in which they believe too many contradictions within the same party absolutely and that cannot last so i see how we talking like this and i think that will be a healthy force of it within the end within the a. N. C. Itself apart from the communist party apart from call center so when that split us it will put south africa in the position that it can normalize its politics away from a racially based polity. Towards principle by cysts for politics away from ethnically diverse in politics towards policy driven politics where people who believe in the same things irrespective of racial color can take cans and Work Together<\/a> because they believe in the same things it will be a rough ride to get to that point quite around for a year but i believe that is when we will be breakthrough to come or want us and when south africa will get on course again to fulfil its tremendous potential how do you interpret you know things like black life matters black lives matter in the United States<\/a> and are we seeing the same thing in south africa differently well racism is a problem in south africa it didnt disappear with the agreements which we reached with our new constitution which is committed to non racialism it exists on all sides theres white racism and theres black racism. And in that sense of the word yes its a problem like it is you know america stuff but like it is in europe and other parts of the world too and racism is not unique it just manifests itself in a different way in Different Countries<\/a> south africa. Copied many ideas from the United States<\/a> after the end of the racism system like the affirmative action when do you think we would see an end to these code. System based on color and based on race when are we coming to see employment employing. Somebody just for them a fact that he or she a good well isnt it first you say they ease a need and a room for affirmative action and black Economic Empowerment<\/a> in south africa that media is acknowledged in the constitution which we need go sharing and the constitution as it stands at the moment says a balance need to be struck between merit Education Training<\/a> experience on the one hand and the issue of black Economic Empowerment<\/a> and black affirmative action. That balance has not been struck in south africa why because the powers that be are developing policies which is you know the specter of man it blacks must be appointed and the seven percent each in a regent way in each state Department Must<\/a> be achieved even though properly trained available people from a particular group are not available. If a country has only so many engineers. Theyd say sixty percent of the engineers are white and forty percent off color then you can say seventy five percent of the jobs must be for engineers of color in only twenty five percent of all whites they arent sufficient lead trained people of color to full the posts so in an unbalanced way affirmative action has led to that service the liberty has led to bad management has led to losses has led to. Mal administration of budgets not because the people involved are people of color but because they havent been turned sufficiently for that job so that on a point that theyre not specialists but they are put into specialist positions we can just carry on and carry on for ever on that basis there needs to be an organized in the meantime we are experiencing a brain drain not only of White South Africans<\/a> immigrating but also black and colored and indian and South African<\/a>s immigrate because they feel that they are not given sufficient opportunity within the economy and the industry of south africa itself being a president and commander in chief certain operations both military and intelligence have to be authorized from you. Want where the the toughest and the most painful places that you had authorized yet you had to you did authorize them well the saddest one was i had from both the Defense Force<\/a> and the police it a few to bull evidence according to them. That house in the old brown sky since sky was being used as a cache and that arms from that house have been used in deeds of terror on the basis of that evidence i wanted to cross border offensive to clear up that house but i said it must go and the man with minimum violence and we must prevent people being killed if at all possible what you said this was around about ninety ninety two i cant remember the exact. And what happened they went in they killed some youths who were there were throwing so yes. And to this day people are holding it against me i did it on the basis of objective evidence and it is the project which went totally wrong i apologize for it and we saw to eat that there were some. That the families of the people were somehow or another helped along. But i in my time we started with their owing from where we were. We started demilitarizing the whole situation in south africa in my time i wasnt involved in major operations outside to inside our borders which i had to authorize i had to normalize their own of police and normalize not only of the army in no longer playing a political role whatsoever but in just doing what their main tasks are the police to protect all South African<\/a>s. Their safety and their property and their security the army to protect our borders and to assist wherever necessary in my job but i look at life when you were president i could fall asleep wake up the next morning fresh for the new challenges but what did keep me up now and then was the great responsibility and realize ation that in many big issues there are no easy choices and that whatever choices you might well also have a positive consequence some negative consequence and one needs to live with that president thank you so much for talking to all this is. The rain forest of the state we continue on our current way we might have a whole race within twenty thirty forty years from now so youre trying to recreate the ecosystem but under controlled conditions the old so the ballot bowl still sucks for them because the Great Barrier<\/a> still saveable but weve got to start now and we need to get everyone behind the solution tag know this time. And then he pointed well on. Us and British Companies<\/a> have announced the biggest discovery of natural gas in west africa but what to do with these untapped Natural Resources<\/a> is already a source of heated debate nothing much has changed they still spend most of their days looking forward to for dry riverbed like this one five years on the syrians still feel battered or even those who managed to escape their country have been truly unable to escape the war. Its impossible to underestimate the size and scale of the economic crisis its not just about the billion trillion dollars of debt its not just about the banks its not just about the government my real. News has never been more available its a constant barrage of it with every day but the message is a simplistic you have brain a good logical rational crazy monster and misinformation is rife dismissal and well documented accusations and evidence is part of genocide the listening post provides a critical counterpoint challenging Mainstream Media<\/a> narratives at this time on aljazeera. I am announcing a new strategy to address the full range of irans destructive actions the us president threatens the lama nuclear deal","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia600808.us.archive.org\/19\/items\/ALJAZ_20171014_043200_Frederik_de_Klerk\/ALJAZ_20171014_043200_Frederik_de_Klerk.thumbs\/ALJAZ_20171014_043200_Frederik_de_Klerk_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240629T12:35:10+00:00"}