O one a student instigates as the chinese battle to get in shape on al jazeera. At least 31 people are dead this weekend after 2 Mass Shootings in the United States both attacks were carried out by american citizens today we are on the stream why isnt the u. S. Taking more to stop white supremacist violence. And you know the drill and send us your thoughts by twitter our lifeline huge. Just hours ago President Donald Trump addressed the nation about the attacks the shooter in el paso posted a manifesto online consumed by racist hate. In one voice our nation must condemn racism bigotry and White Supremacy these sinister ideologies must be defeated hate has no place in america we have asked the f. B. I. To identify all further resources they need to investigate and disrupt hate crimes and dont mistake terrorists for the 1st time trump acknowledged the nations White Supremacy problem will anything change now joining us Emily Kosinski susan Extremism Research a from Charlottesville Virginia shes currently living in bali and gemini that ship in ada is an associate professor of communications at the university of texas in el paso and we also have my professor of history at Rutgers University in New Brunswick new jersey thank you guess have been part of a show today richard i have to ask him about el paso as youre going about your Business Today what is the atmosphere like what are people saying to each other. Well its incredibly somber monday an incident like this is something thats unprecedented in all passers history i think its also something that really tears at the heart of our community we have more than 700000 residents and we are largely a Mexican American community with strong ties to lobbyists and the state to our i think Something Like this is really just difficult to explain community has rallied in a way that makes me incredibly proud but the thought that on saturdays its a huge part of this community was impacted and the idea that people who look like me and look like my daughter were targeted by the alleged gunman is really just heartbreaking. Just getting a sense of what it must be like to be and thats how clyde that i wanted to share with you a little moment from a survivor kumar about a laptop haitian yes have a look. We had nowhere to run there was nowhere no way we couldnt run out of there. I neednt be having to answer me that was there wouldnt be hanging tire. And id look to the front and this time was 2 cars away from us in the street. And i saw him reload his time and walk towards him. And he just pulled plenty hamstring and. He shot the rounds had to be 10. 00 a day. And he was right next to me. And. He shot even one round in all my good things come in is to carry my children. And be nice to him do anything to my daughter or any of the girls of 19. I many for so many of us who are from the United States thought it. Terrifying situational but weve all thought what would we do if we were in a mass shooting situation and you know what thats like team mind sharing that insight with us because you are so 5 a team. Absolutely not just a better mentioning thats certainly a unique experience but i was there in charlottesville 2 years ago when and you know t. J. It is cart into our peaceful protest and theres a moment in that where you realize whats happening and its almost like just happen because you have to gather your thoughts to figure out what is happening. And for us you know were going to protest and some of us have trained for things like this and so you just spring into action and you do you know you let your instinct take over and its chaos and you focus on the thing that you can do and you have to do that. Mark as a historian who actually looks at White Nationalism White Supremacy how do you actually understand whats been happening in the u. S. Right now and this weekend in particular well its part of a broader trend of course we can see apart from the fact that the history of like the premise of the slavery and genocide goes back centuries and we should never forget these histories and we talk about the kinds of violence over the last few years its clear that Trumps Campaign for the presidency has emboldened the all right this new kind of manifestation of far right politics and they present themselves as the defenders of what they claim are traditional values of course its all made up but this notion that the United States ought to be a white country this notion that you know gender means something very specific and eternal they make up these myths present themselves as defenders of it and respond violently. I said ever given that it is an inherent part of their politics no matter how they present them and i also just want to add one little thing that i think we ought to be a little bit cautious about some of the language around the word terrorism because that kind of language sometimes normalizes the violence of the police the military in the prison system which is also complicit in broader systems of violent White Supremacy will relinquish easily be using them to describe what happened over this weekend and then continues to keep happening with russian tanks well i mean i tell you presented it honestly you presented it as White Supremacy violence. I mean i understand why people are pushing back against the notion of terrorism being exclusively something that in this country the media presents as something done by muslims for example and to show that actually if were thinking in those terms White Supremacy violence is the main issue but we can also see how that language is attempted to be used against left wing antiracist recently by ted cruz trump and others that feels like a 1000000 years ago because its been shown to be somewhat a critic but i think that shows the danger implicit in it which is i want to play you a little bit of a clip from another el paso resident and she points to the hypocrisy of the emotion thats happening right now bearing in mind the context of which we only thing in the United States this is cassandra and you see. White supremacy in any extension of any form of it has just been so accepted here specifically of the border ways to tension with the military invasion of the border with border militias or right wing nazis coming to occupy the border and no less denouncing and imperialist the hypocrites who are complicit in these anti elegies who have voted for trump who back the n. R. A. Who again normal lives by supremacy normalise nazis want to accept them in arkansas not just in our community but everywhere all of a sudden and more and grief ensure the condolences that infuriated. Right yes well you know i think to the point that cassandra makes me and certainly to marks point i think that one thing that youre already seeing is a shift in the rhetoric the Republican Party as you so yesterday told ted cruz and george p. Bush talked about this is a paid incident of white terrorism i think marks question is right which is weve got to be careful with the way that that that language gets used and its a board and i think another crucial issue which is the question of gun rights and and korea billet of weapons use the United States i think that its its one of the dangers of the moment right after it is like this is that theres a number of different issues which are completed and put together and i think that there has to be a want to caution not only on the part of experts but but also i think in terms of Media Coverage to really draw some some delineation between that and i think that part of this positioning at least rhetorically political perspective to move to talking about why terrorism is is in fact is more points out ceding this to a larger picture and i think that that may be a disservice to the specifics of these incidents and in this particular case the specifics of being a very particular anti hispanic or anti let me let you know effort shaw. Gentlemen may i just might mean may i just put this to you and this comes from john basher hes a u. S. Attorney for the Western District of texas i want to show you what he sat in the last 2448 hours and this is a talking about what happened in el paso we are treating it as a domestic terrorism case and were going to do what we do to terrorists in this country which is to have a swift and sets and justice not shy saying that this is i personally do not like that would be a correct assumption i understand where its coming from right he worked through through the Legal Process but that language of course sounds good when its used against neo nazis who are murdering people then you know it think selfevident but historically its been used against. Black nationalist groups against anarchists against socialists against a wide variety of radical many of whom havent even always been charged with doing anything violent at all so i do think that the language of terrorism sometimes makes the politics irrelevant ready to just about the act but we kept always think of these acts in terms of the public picks and never let the right try to hide the wall of white the primacy in whats going on i mean lets talk about the politics that and do it straight on i want to introduce you to erin cool hand again shes a writer she lives in El Paso Texas so she is talking from experience of what has happened just to her community this is what she says about why is this happening the issue is not that texas or america has been invaded by migrants the issue is our government has been infected by race as politicians the manifesto that led to the destruction of my city on saturday it was taken directly from statements made by President Trump Sen John Cornyn his mates tweets about the way that there are 9 hispanics moving to texas for every white person Governor Greg Abbott laments the fact that texas is number 2 in gun sales and we can be number one there incursion and take the immigrant thoughts and racism and violence. I mean what i want to tell our audience something before the real dress what point the points arent to split up and that is why little subtle to study how. What happened to him charlottesville can you just tell us if you dont mind yeah absolutely so what i found was that theres a lot of lack of understanding about what these hate groups stand for what motivates their actions what motivates their level of violence how they organize and things like that and so what i wanted to do is try to can text in a language that people understand when they are not deeply engaged in that with this material and try to make clear the politics a that underlie the violence and to try to communicate that these are politics that are not very far from mainstream that theyre very normalized and that the way that we need to fight the tapes of violent acts is not to. Look at the act itself and to try to write laws or you know use certain. And hand spence to crimes or things like that but to understand that these are mainstream politics but i mean why should middle part because of what happened to charlottesville that is why you know during this will set i dont know what was it about you tell us. I think that this is partly in response to charlottesville to what happened there they came into my town they. Caused these riots they targeted me as i said pictures right now many so people can just be reminded about what they thought. Which i desolately the right which is what one of the thoughts that skying around white now is that President Trump without he has code out White Supremacy. Is being cannot to set any of that rhetoric that is going around right now in terms of places in the law immigrants and in the final passage youve got an even better if you point a more what this does to a community the many of us can sap peace yet that tibets absolutely right and i think one of the things that people are missing i mean theres not a one to one relationship in so much as the president says accident results in in a why but remember the most basic symbolic interaction that a politician has is to convince people to vote for them based on their ideas and so its not a stretch to assume that if the president is using literal or or hate filled language or more than anything else allowing people to use that in his presence i mean when you when you go to the rallies and i get to see the rally in el paso from a unique Vantage Point you see how these crowds get stoked up and i think that thats one of the issues that were not talking about so it goes beyond just the president saying these things its also allowing these things to be said in his name in his in his presence i think that gives permissibility and what i think my panelist would agree with is that over the course of the last 3 and a half years that permissibility has led to greater visibility for a lot of folks who are pursuing a very particular agenda thats not to equate every trump voter or supporter in that in that vein but the truth is that as long as the president is not held accountable hes not put it is not given some responsibility to say these are things that ive helped stoke up then every offhanded joke at a rally every comment about sending people back those things start to take their toll and as somebody who has just watched this mean in the way emily saw this in the charlottesville incident i mean it is heartbreaking because it means that people who have a particular agenda or stoked on to do very horrible things and they have had. And we pointed out come to my community and it destroyed the sense of safety at stake today that we have here sure yet and also if i could just. You know clearly trump comments about this owning white the crime of the art his effort to hold on to some moderate semblance of mainstream respectability while the vast majority of his actions in his comments last year in a climate right so thats i think what richard was part was getting at is that its not just about what he says its but 3 in this climate where white supremacist or just really angry young white men interpret his comments in ways that alone permissibility these kinds of acts let me share with you a couple of comments from our Online Community some artist says here as long as the president of the United States doesnt 10 down on his tweets against people of color and a different religious beliefs the shootings wont stop we shall hear another thought this one comes from abdul after says the greatest threat in modern america remains White Supremacy smells people who think they are better than their fellow humans slightly suppress use he can order guns online online with no checks whatsoever a couple of thoughts there as to what is causing this actual rise in the number of White Supremacy is to tax i dont have to take my word for it because there was a hearing earlier on this year in april and i want to share a little bit of that with you because these are where the hard stats come from have a listen have a look. White supremacists in the United States have experienced a resurgence in the past 3 years driven in large part by the rise of the right there is also a clear corollary as our Research Shows to the rise in polarizing and hateful rhetoric on the part of candidates and elected leaders this is a particularly dangerous problem White Supremacists have been responsible for more than half 54 percent of all to mess deck extremis related murders in the past 10 years and in the last year that figure has risen to 78 percent of all extremist related murders. I mean im looking at some of the research that youre put into finding or even look at the kind of pass and who will go out and shoot multiple numbers of people so that was from the just cuts of hair on hate crimes on the rise of White Nationalism in april so were looking at perhaps the present when i start stocking up. So much rhetoric up alt immigrants and rice but what else could possibly be cool song. On the number of attacks by White Supremacists white nationalists yeah i mean this is something that has been growing for more than just the past 3 years we have seen the seeds of this planted in one harassment campaigns going back to the earlier part of this decade and before that weve seen a 20 or 30 year erosion of the protections that we have against police so we are seeing more Police Violence and. Crucially the types of language that we see with that with this type of killings like language like i felt afraid for my life and so i had to shoot him were actually seeing that being manifested in the defenses of these by the doctors when they do get brought to trial and so when you have somebody like the president who is in the most scrutinized office in the world. Doing things like say oh if you punch these protesters all pay their legal bills whether its a joke or not is irrelevant people hear that and they stink that they have Carte Blanche to go out and commit violence and that they have the formula already and so between the well practiced Online Harassment where they have refined their techniques of plausible deniability to the tacit and explicit support of people in church were going to see more violence is going to keep increasing model i mean i think seeing it in the context of the Obama Presidency of. The demographic shift in the country the you know prominent spanish as the 2nd language in the country the increasing role of the next populations struggles around gay and transliteration you know there are a lot of people out there who are feel redundantly white people who feel threatened by these kind of changes and if they have politicians whispering in their ear that you are under attack then that thats a message thats going to bring a lot of violence a response mark im really glad you talked about before President Trump because these instances were happening a long time before he was president richard when were looking at this issue. Give us your ride in the center of one of the worst massacres from this year i should say from this week because on saturday in america there were many many many Mass Shootings what do you see as a way for whats your morning with your community right now how do you get beyond this how do some other communities having to go free what are you ok for right now. Well you know i think one thing is really pushing this idea of responsibility for speech and i think the point that emily bourke never make it is well taken which is extremism has unfettered access to digital platforms made better for example was reproduced you know 100 fold on saturday morning edition and im just catching a drop in the manifesto because Everybody Knows about that a power play the shooter of the el paso victims all survive of people who attacked wrote down. Hoas to false. I suppose you could say that they were white nationalists white supremacist thoughts and people according that his manifesto site has right he said oh no thats ok so so this document that made this point one person seems to be pretty certain that this fact was something that the that the shooter wrote but the better idea of it that youve got these channels to magnify hate and i think that you know in in a sort of facebook generation you have a very transitory responsibility so people are willing to throw verbal rhetorical hand grenades and walk away from the consequences of those actions i mean we have to have conversations about responsibility of it comes to speech and i think the other thing we were seen as a result of some of this some of the changing political tone is that people are drawing lines in the sand about how much theyre willing to engage with somebody so if you disagree with me that suddenly becomes the reason that we cannot talk anymore and you know thats anathema for the way the democracy works youve got to be able to have disagreements and they cant be something that cuts you off the rest of Civil Society and so i think you know those of us that that are in el paso i think we yesterday was was amazing i mean people came together by the thousands for vigils and as i said the sense today well one full of sadness and despair also shows some hope and that is that this is a community that is resilient that deals with these kinds of circumstances and outside pressure and can unify as want to take this is absolutely the moment when asked it can be not only in terms of how we act and how we talk but the idea of inspiring people to have conversations that go deeper than just do you agree with me or do you disagree but let me just share these things 2 thoughts with you from our online communication is that joining our conversation cessna saying el paso simonsons they are in the room. Going to mean we need stronger gun control legislation on the books that is a conversation that continues every time there is a mass shooting and long this thought here from a. Conversation. Live the president has been held accountable via nonstop condemning of every anti immigrant remark what is needed is solutions to White Nationalism i also found mark this was quite intriguing projects safe neighborhoods i was looking to see what the federal government was doing to try and help stop White Nationalism White Supremacy and they are doing these neighborhood education what you do when you see somebody who may well possibly display some indication that they might create harm for other people in terms of the federal response just very briefly what do you make of it well 1st obviously we need to talk about guns that is obvious but we often do talk about disarming the pauli if you can forget about that part of the conversation as far as Police Response to our rate i think its it were treating these initiatives a bit of get its get this is a given the f. B. I. Has documentation of massive white power infiltration and on horsemen i dont have a lot of faith in the police to be able to carry this out i think that we need to really direct it at the root of word coming from politically and organized communities that respond. Marc im just going to im going to wrap up the conversation now only because we have to because were out of time but i want to say thank you very much to marc and richard and emily for helping us understand the 2 Mass Shootings is a little bit better happen not to say this and over the weekend thank you very much guests really appreciate youre changing the topic. But something equally as controversial let me show you this is a trailer for a new film about Harriet Tubman how to look youve got to be a mouse to leave. Her alone that you dont want to stop. In the stars just talk a little. This is. The. Kind of. Easy man im listening to. And i quite like being paid by a black british actress while people are lying saying hash tag the not my how it will find out in the next episode of aging strain see that and so much never. Done presents on Donald Trump Jr was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton allegation like to see an investigation done to see did the Trump Campaign collude with russia did you at any time bridge the former f. B. I. Director james comey in any way shape or form the closer to back down the investigation into Michael Flynn and also as you will know. Next question battlefield washington on aljazeera. Bogost. 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