Have a thing called loses consists and your policy leaders said no you have not abolished but if you lost democracy only works in this country if loses except they lost completely agree ok and youre leader said your leader said if the remains campaign im quoting your leader im not to give you any of my views if the remain Campaign Wins 2 thirds to one 3rd that ends it you didnt win want 2 thirds to one 3rd so its not over according to knowledge of fraud i dont have to agree with every word that he said look if you want to review the referendum 1015 years down the track thats fine happy but you know you have to implement the will of the people 1st time around in the same way when you have the will of the people saying that will give you his decision is that abstinence stone people get to change their minds there is a general election and then say i would like the results and we have another vote really just i want 2017 we might have one next month thats in 2 years. But the reality. Of. What happened after the election to reason may want to just with a Hung Parliament with the d. P. So shes the Prime Minister and shes trying to get out of the way she tried to get to 3 times she put a deal and you disagreed with that deal because of the terrible it is the worst it doesnt matter it was bracks thats what you were wasnt great its not behind it weve always said thats not breaks it that is thats half and half or so what youre saying were not sure it is that there are multiple forms of bricks in this which werent on the ballot paper in 2016 maybe there was leave on the in the ballot paper it wasnt it wouldnt leave somebody told you you what reason may work or lets be honest leave means leave thats why founded the group by definition it doesnt mean that thats why were in this mess 3 words but it Means Nothing well talk about that beyond the. Words in a few moments were going to keep it simple folks thought we did before we do just something thats been a big story here in the u. K. Recently given an m. P. Joe cox was murdered in the middle of the Referendum Campaign by a White Nationalist who considered her to be a collaborator and a traitor do you think its wise right now that politicians constantly talk of betrayal of traitors of surrender is an irresponsible for your party did another fraud to talk about picking up a rifle if brooks is in delivered of taking a knife to Civil Servants in london is this not dangerous stuff which the word surrender is a normal part of the english language just like betrayal if we cant use simple language like that that actually you are preventing free speech you know no one is banning you want to talk no one is banning you from that you were saying when you hear when you hear women in Parliament Saying theyre getting Death Threats citing the prime which is of working is not does not make you feel a protest the jokes murder was absolutely hideous shocking and appalling on but never say dont we want to avoid another one happening by all moderating along of course about picking up a rifle and i think Civil Servant saying you want to decapitate the Prime Minister when a david comes on the show last year but im also if you want to know for a large we can do what about of the. Person im not responsible for other people i mean youre chair of the brics a body you actually are responsible for your for us as hes the leader of your party thats how it works otherwise you dont have to be the chair in politics you dont dictate what other people say you dont you have a comment on it lets just be clear do you disagree with the language of rifle and knifing its not language i would have used why i choose different language thats i live what im wondering what is on my own person because theres something wrong with what freud said like everybodys different ok so youre ok with that language im setting it clear youre ok with everybodys different i would use different language its fine ok lets bring in our panel here who are waiting patiently to come in jonathan lives is the Deputy Director of the european think tank british influence hes also a journalist contributor to the guardian prospect among others john of the youve called this new rhetoric the end of playing by the rules you say people have every right to be scared richard makes the point that the people on your side of the argument using. Pretty heated rhetoric. No one is using language which would incite violence on or my story that no one is accusing anyone of treason and when theyre in if they have a date then i would completely disavow that what were seeing now is a very trumpy in style approach where theres an attempt to reframe language and to normalize that reframing because in order to take control of the people you have to take control of the lexicon and let me bring in graeme gudgeon whos a economist at Cambridge University chief Economic Advisor at the conservative think Tank Policy Exchange great youve been a big supporter of brics it Boris Johnson the Prime Minister the u. K. At the time of this recording has said that he will take britain out of the e. U. On the 31st of october he dodged questions of legality whether he would be breaking the law would you support that you somebody says weve got to do that no matter what Parliament Passes oh absolutely weve got to get this done now this is just gone on for too Long Companies are in trouble that they they dont know what to do theyre begin vestments to make even those breaking the law just to be clear want to know where you stand theres a law that says you cannot do this now i dont think you should break the law but the law itself is just ridiculous its technically hands over the power to the since were not allowed to accept no deal you can offer any deal that the they want and they can offer any timescale they want and then they were going to parliament can say ok were going to use the parliament the parliament the United Kingdom which is so far as we start that youve surrendered the key issue of how long we remain in. The European Union i mean its just let me make a suggestion part of mechanics that im going to bring in our Senior Editor the progressive online media outlet novara media she also teaches political theory at the Sandberg Institute is the language around bricks it is it is as toxic as people seem to suggest it is well you know i think its important to be passionate times when you feel passionately about politics i do have a specific question for you because a few weeks ago one of your parliamentary candidates for south North Hampton shared rachel. Tweeted that she totally agree with the list calling for me personally to be either executed or imprisoned. Do you think that this is appropriate conduct no i dont think thats appropriate and i was a little bit come to that well have to look at it and make a form with you i mean do you have a code of conduct about this kind of thing of course we do is that theyre calling for a political kind of be executed against a code of conduct i would look at it of course ill give you that i would give the shirts right we have withdrawn the whip from one of our i mean because of a conflict of interest between his business interests and his role as an m. E. P. Very very briefly is that it seems to me that theres a pattern of behavior when it comes to using language around violence by Party Supporters including niger for raj i remember the day of the referendum result they posted that been won without a single bullet being fired merely days after the murder of john cox so my next question would be these parts of Party Supporters who have been well its a big divisive Movie Theater about what about david the other day its ok to remain is to say let me just quit before we move on very quickly if you agree as you say you do we all agree that we want to reduce the likelihood of god forbid another attack or a murder of a member what give me your top proposal for. Creating a britain where that doesnt happen what would you like to see happen get this job sorted so we can actually try and unify the country about successful Economic Performance afterward so that we can then i mean a lot of rhetoric peoples rhetoric you know any research this is such a divisive issue lets implement it and then we can all move on you talk about implementation richard youre running on a platform to leave the European Union without a deal whether october 31st or beyond but just going back to 2016 when your side was telling the british people that they could leave the e. U. With a great deal with a trade agreement in place you would be easy so im wondering why you deliberately misleading them back then we lived in them we ignorant about how difficult it was going to be which one is it neither what was it and why did you make those promises and why because i actually would have proper leadership from someone who believed in breaks that we would have got that you can say vote great and this is a bad Prime Minister i dont like him. And we didnt. Leave subject to a deal that everybody likes we said leave you went on the b. B. C. In the run up to the referendum you promised the view is that the u. K. Would quote still have a friendly agreement negotiated with the e. U. In the 2 years after we vote no its been 3 and frank said on the economics itll be broadly the same thats what youre told and the good news is it would be even better if there is no knowing its going to be even better and your god be negotiating we would have had a deal and we would have been out by now even michael gove conservative cabinet minister one of the leaders of a Vote Campaign he says he said i quote we didnt vote to leave without a deal that wasnt a massive message of the campaign i helped lead hes being honest about it why not just hes known it what hes not going to so he got it wrong hes not being honest about it heres a man who a few months ago said that we were leaving with a good deal to resume is doing now hes in charge of leaving without a deal or a clean break breaks it and hes saying thats absolutely fine but you just cant trust a word that man says ok you know what else can we trust what you want to tell you we trust you you can trust yes or trust not go for our yes when you know you want for arjun aaron banks who was the big donor to the levy whos got nothing to do with a big donor to the levy you can buy them to have a referendum right now when you were saying in the referendum 3 of you norway Free Trade Agreement none of thats on the table now now youre telling us to forget all that maybe well just own it why pretend you were always for a no deal slash clean break so what did Michel Barnier say at the beginning of the negotiations he said if you want a simple free trade deal you can have one reason may rejected it and thats why were in the mess we are only isnt you know only last week Michel Barnier had a meeting with one of my colleagues one of my party in the piece and he said if we leave with a with no deal with a clean break breaks it then they will start negotiating a free trade do the following week i mean you know what the economists are saying you know what the office of budget responsibility said about that the same people who said that would go into immediate recession would lose half a 1000000 job you said the pound would collapse and it did and were employing a 1000000 people more than we did at the time the referent and you lowest rates of unemployment and well outperform in the euro zone well hold on hold on hold on one of the members of the monetary policy. Bank of england says already the cost of brics is running at 40000000000. 00 pounds a year how the i. M. F. Which last time i checked didnt vote in the referendum so the total is going to fairly pricey on the u. K. G. D. P. Is about 3 and a half percent by 2021 they are better led by Christine Lagarde right who said there will be a complete collapse so no i am asked about a lot of British Retail Consortium that says prices will go up in supermarkets after no doubt that theyll be a shortage of food and they wont they wont do that so you know more than the person running same reason tesco yes frankly you know more than the bank of england because you know more than the more the bank of england because you know hes used every decision hes made about the Interest Rates being totally and utterly wrong when we leave on a clean break we can then make the solutions about what tariffs we cut so we can cut the tariffs of goods that we dont produce in this country consumer goods food you know you have figured out for everyone right under World Trade Organization rules but if we dont get it so you can reduce tariffs on everything on goods that we dont produce ive been to the very senior people there and they said i went to them back in january and they said yes you could easily turn the 29 page political declaration into an article 24 heads of terms and actually that would be a sensible thing to do given where its at who did you meet the w. T. I met a couple of very senior one of the names im going to give you the names there what im telling you the director general of the w. T. A rather says there will be costs and the cost may be very significant and the sector but what his previous i suppose you run the w. B. For him says youd be brutally jumping from trade league one to trade league 3 thats the director john of the w 2 and his predecessor but 2 anonymous people you may have guaranteed you things will be fine. Dont put words in my that you want to say you just said i want to make sure i did and they said we can make some but i ask you their names you say i cant tell me them i didnt say i just they actually asked me not to say the names if you really want to know but the reality is they said what would you know what they thought we could do and should do i think thats absolutely weve always said that we should ask for an article 24 heads of agreement under the rules which basically means you agree the heads of terms you then basically incorporate terms you put into. And you dont the eyes of course that you know that can have that is absolutely the fundamental point of agreement is the 2 sides have to agree of course that he told us how it had to be and here is not going to agree to a cherry picked head to terms trade agreement if we dont give the e. U. What they want which is Citizens Rights to divorce payment parts of the e. U. Has always had more leverage in the u. K. Because its wider its more powerful its rich than we are they can afford to equate reasonable doubt is the truth of the other misery and without so let me bring a very emotional and 1000000000 there almost but let me ask you describe. The Yellow Hammer document from the government also is predicted possibly shortage of medicines food destruction at the border delays are you willing to concede that you know everybody to look at you have to have a document 25 pages it wont take you very long it is the most ridiculous document. Its not so its garbage its not a prediction its what its what they call a worst Case Scenario well actually they called it they called it a base and then they renamed it when it was you know if they kept the base Case Scenario it would be beyond ridiculous it would be i mean this is an internal planning document from appropriate letterman just to be clear but theyre part of the remain conspiracy as well let me tell you what this analysis was based on this just quotes from the document its not my view if between 50 and 85 percent of Haulage Companies were unable to fill in french customs forms not only on the 1st day but for 3 months and then half of them were unable to fill in these forms for 6 months then wed have problems with the french customs and they did their own customs have been handing out forms to lower drivers for the last 6 months and this was why why would. You say there wont be any disruption after no deal right now im not saying that im going to be if theres any disruption will be fairly small jonathan very briefly respond that there will be a small disruption well i mean the government is as you say appropriate see government i say listen to the actual government which has no interest in ramping up the dangers that no deal they are saying that terrible things can happen we have a g. T. Responsibility to listen to those rest and Pay Attention how can anyone read that document on a preview no deal is completely beyond me to bring you on something. Or to bring you know something which you said about poland which i really like the 2nd one just just one thing is that fair now when you hear all the debates in british politics about we were misled we should rerun the vote they were fully honest with us etc adviser for where do you stand on all that im what you call the euro skeptic remain which means that everyone and no one likes. Me there are very strong arguments about why practice. It happened and i think the main one is the democratic principle which is when you vote for something regardless of what the letter of the law says about an advisory or not advisory. Our political system relies on the trust of the electorate and i do think that there is a negative consequence for breaking that trust yes i do you also however think that there is no mandate for no deal if there was one parliament voted to strip the article 50 parliament has since changed its mind wh