Fury in spain after cattle and separatist leaders a sentenced to prison for a failed secession bid 2 years ago so is the dream of independence for catalonia now over of what are the implications for the rest of europe this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program im Adrian Finnegan spains highest court to sense a strong message to catalonia 2 years out to the region tried to break away separatist leaders have been jailed to between 9 and 13 years for organizing an illegal secession referendum in 2017 former catalan Vice President oriel young paris was handed the longest sentence for sedition and misusing public funds the leaders were acquitted of the more serious rebellion charges spains Prime Minister says the verdicts confirm the end of a failed process for cattle and independents nobodys above the law nobodys have although you know the microsleep like a spinning nobody is subject to trial for his or her ideas or politics but rather for criminal conduct as provided by the will. Of the verdicts triggered violent protests in barcelona people blocked roads the main road to the citys airport and rallied elsewhere denouncing the sentences as unjust aljazeera saya gago reports now from boston lona. Hours after the sentencing of catalan lawmakers and political activists was sentenced to years in prison for so addition over their role in the october 27th teen illegal referendum there were mass protests across the city of barcelona the most tense points were in the city center but also the port the protesters had successfully managed to blockade one of the terminal buildings there there were clashes between Bryant Police and the protesters as well who were demanding for an amnesty and for the release of those prisoners now they see themselves as being part of what is being called a democratic tsunami its a Leaderless Organization that disseminates information points of reference and contacts and where to go via social Media Networks the Spanish Government has reacted to this by saying it has already been monitoring this organization the idea of any kind of amnesty for the cats. Imprisoned politicians and activists is out of the question if the Spanish Government thought that this trial would put an end to the tensions that have been seen here in this region for the past 2 years then the protesters would have proved them wrong last night however the question is can they keep up that momentum and what effect is it going to have on the region but also on the politics of spain as a whole spanish judges have issued a new european arrest warrant for the former president Carlos Bustamante whos now living in exile in belgium he called the verdict an act of revenge. Or cattle and whether they support or oppose independence that above all they value freedom and democracy and unite under a single banner and say enough. I come on them to turn the indignation in the face of injustice into a positive energy that breaks down walls that the steps of the italian redeemed in their tracks. Lets bring in our guests then who joined us from barcelona today as his head of the International Team a board member of on the m cultural a Catalan Cultural Association whose president jordi who shot who was sentenced to 9 years in jail at all said barcelona christian herbals eid up the director of the International Cattle an institute for peace good to have you with us. Where do these verdicts in the prison sentences leave the Independence Movement in catalonia has it failed has it failed in the best of luck well i dont want representing the National Front because the new build up has always done something for democracy im for it im not for voting for the saving themes or not for the no option to participate in us have a mission or a family he does so we had part of the throw in there then thats more fun but i want campaigns i have always been for the for the democracy not. Distant has been dependence movement in catalonia failed does it have a future the fury on display in barcelona is not shared elsewhere in spain or indeed elsewhere in europe. Now actually not. But this is a protracted conflict. Going on for many years in different cycles. And i dont think that what happened is that they will signal an end to their Independence Movement rather or the conflict will take a different turn and therefore there is still a need maybe more than ever to d create the conditions that would allow our political dialogue to address a conflict which right now are not in place unfortunately christan the catalogue of dependence movement has long been characterized by. Its peaceful nature you say the condition is not right yet for dialogue do you think that could change whether they will have to change this is a conflict where it is difficult for see any resolution with victoria one time and the other at the end of the day is this problem all or. Aids and those against or the conflict between then and at the land Democratic Institutions in the spanish. There needs to be a way. To address the grievances and to address the claims of claims legitimacy from Pro Independence supporters and as well as those d who are. There is actually. A clash. That. There is a political dialogue which right now is not. Well enough what impact will this verdict have on the forthcoming general election in spain will it help the far right at the ballot box will Pro Independence parties make big gains within catalunya. I have my event the thing is that in every elections that brought independents Political Parties inc i have have been we need more and i have sometimes. What is important is that these is not about independents or against independents because a lot of people are who hes not for the end and that was also demonstrating yesterday so a lot of people on the other feels that human rights connected with Peaceful Assembly and freedom of speech does that that that the rights that being now. Are at stake that they have to be condemned so theres a lot of people who is not brought up and thats thats what these kind of the installations and that supports dual to ask for what i dont form of democracy and capacity of this nation of the time people lets bring in a 3rd guest on a duck is a city a Professor Emeritus at pompey a fabric university and he joins us also from barcelona are good to have you with us a professor at a betrayed based journalist north giles trumpet who is rising in the Guardian Newspaper said that the separatist leaders who orchestrated a head on collision with spanish law required massive support in catalonia which they never actually had their real problem now he said its not the jail sentences but hubris is he right. I would say that there is a definitely its an ongoing process thats why the term process was going. On the process has not culminated it has not produced. Such an awesome majority. So as to be victorious but it doesnt disappear and so it goes on its a kind of permanent tug of war. So whats the future for the independent movement within catalonia professor. Short term have to see what will happen in the upcoming november elections for the Spanish Parliament the cattle and elections are pending. There is some pressure theres even debate within the independent this movement as to whether to go for elections or not leading parties and government are divided on this. Its hard to tell things are a stalemate and theyve been at a stalemate for 2 years. Its hard to know when that part of opinion that is very very motivated is going to be overwhelmed or counterbalance the fact of late by that part of opinion that is very tired of the whole thing. I saw you reacting that what the professor was was saying if you want to try to come back to. Well i would say one of them to frame the frame the problem. One of. The crisis that the big boots up there is probably that unlike other countries. Independence party are legal. But they have never been a majority toted the steam for the 1st time or independence parties win elections alone democratically elected to the government in the parliament at the Pro Independence majority not in votes what 8 percent what but yet yes members arent. And then there was no response no political response from the Central Government to this fact and that test after what youre dealing with now is. A lack of well you think even legal i would say. Frameworks and tools to address this reality of how a democratically elected majority dependents government with claims for a legally held referendum but these claims are not politically ready acceptable or interesting enough or their central state or Central Government and we are going round in circles addressing or not addressing. This issue and based on that then i would say there have been steps taken obviously by different than political players welcome bustle in madrid and some of those steps have been rather unfortunate. And what we need to find is a way out of a Business Cycle to some sort of birth just look. How do you achieve christiane. Well there is see obviously 1st theres a need of some sort of agreement of what the conflict is all about madrid says intractable and complex. And thats partially right there is half of the population are independent and heart not in favor of independence but thats only part of the picture its also obviously a clash between apple and Spanish Government but theres also are a deeper crash i would select alone that just mention its not only about the pen that at that independence yes or not is how does Civil Society how does society relate with the government and with the state institution is it legal to demonstrate. And protest laws which our success i think may not agree with and. Therefore right now its not all the framework its not only about. Its now is. That the level of. Capacity of the Democratic Institutions to deal with dissent. And i know coming back to the that the trial date the Supreme Court verdict in which on the im stammen was sentenced to 9 years in prison the former president to catalonia kind of pushed him on now in exile in belgium says the sentencing of his colleagues came at the end of an unfair trial by a politicized judiciary is he right he has completely and entirely its not he was saying that those are saying that there was a platform and who was observing the trial i mean that much not months always many in tears and they have released some a statement saying that there was even a lot of these during the trial it has been you know mixed right finish and international of human rights so its not only that a Civil Society in a lot of these are some 8 years of human rights that are seeing that that i dont watch. Not. So much n. G. O. S on human rights Like Amnesty International not on our world at least action against our charter or throw like beef and that i think half assed down the east of these prisoners especially the release of the 2 social as he leaves us and they have asked. Up so its not only am i dont concern exact about me im not even inside spain its something that is i think all of us are ok that the law though was deliberately broken the Catalan Parliament doesnt have the power as a call a binding referendum on independence or to declare independence but a britains Prime Minister Boris Johnson found out when politicians flout the lord act unconstitutionally the courts will act and thats just whats happened here isnt it. No because that im economies meaning a spanish constitution as in many other constitutions that establish that i mean everybody him and. Thats why you have the Constitutional Court to say that these is not constitutional so you have to make im used the legal mc i mean times on that one cannot be for me then theres that balance discussed. On everything and then they can have the Freedom Office speech so what if im not b. C. If i lot east is not constitutional then i am economies to come see that these not to be constitutional and thats not right but its not about foreign buying the fate of the dialogues inside their family and this is not about the muchness even. Henrique ink on our constitutional laws that everyone every day. That they make any stool. To feed these dogs last into shanties is not the problem all of these but i was east is not our leader presents this is not only time primes its ok well come on to the construction of the political crisis just about aspire to ask a question why was the spanish far right party vox allowed to take an active role in the trial and to question with the system defendants. Because when the entire state system is reorganized and whats called habitually its been the transition 177170. There is a provision which allows for independent. Patisserie patient independent accusation. Citizens who choose to participate in the trial and this is the recognized for us it was unfortunate that box took advantage of this and the unfortunate aspect was even indicated in the trial sentence it was. A remark to that it would be better if legal measures were taken so that Political Parties could never in the future for dissipate as private accusation in trial but surely that means that this trial was not free and fair and in that case oh it was just simply that its like all of the trials held in the last. Month 40 almost 50 years. There is since the late seventys the provision that you have. A private. Right in any case meaning in a murder case any pino procedure you know there can be a private accusation together with the public an accuser. Christan the way the system was to stop christe percent pushable says that his colleagues are Political Prisoners and as elaine it was saying earlier on this year the Un Working Group on arbitrary detention held but the pretrial imprisonment of the 9 politicians was a violation of International Law and that the imposition of any prison sentences at the end of the trial would also violate International Law spain says the u. N. Working group is biased and has ignored its ruling so whos right spain or the u. N. Well this is a political battle as the n. S. A. It is also a legal battle and there by the list are different fronts here now frank. Who has the upper hand comes the machine and very much also on all. The international. The same day of the sentence yesterday Spanish Government members of the cabinet distributing a video highlighting. This i mean. System which is obviously our national. Strength an image that is being challenged by some degree by their pro movement and thats part of the political i think thats going on. We have peace and we dont focus on their own political bottom and theyre also seeing right or wrong what we try to. Analyze what are the possibilities of finding a way out of this right now in the political but i mentioned essentially whats happening is a battle diligent in mind be other sacked so yesterday president. Said that they had. Ready to trade and had been defeated at the same time. In the protests against this sentence you would see many people trying to suggest that story span explain in spanish and so you can start ashes here state so this is the level of care of we are facing and can go on for a very long time thats right now there are not many. Here who are away from this whats necessary is to find a way of getting out and they are the chair of catalan leaders theyre going to appeal to the European Court of human rights is there a reason to think that that Court May Take a different view to spains Supreme Court and does it matter if it does. Yes it does matter yes and the we are quite sure that it will take the Firm Position because. It is about freedom of expression. And derived a beautiful assembly and these dry skin not the. Media as they have been limited at that moment you can say that the that awareness these are the things like that but you cannot condemn we said the shah and then put people in prison for 9 years thats thats nonsense and more not illegal thats what is president of the of the strasbourg court. Many other seems it seems that the. Absolutely im proud. Of this action. Respected and. Im sure that we will end up in the situation backed up rather its that were thinking are we good during all these time i mean this is our have any political pressures in this being we cannot leave the constant to the shock or thirst in a span are there today without an accordionist that has that not a solution this pilot of thats not good in the sense that if they dont match our community saying things the problem in this big thing will be going on if there is not soft enough they are so that you shall see it and talk to each other. Henrique weve got about 2 minutes left on the program im going to give the last word to you as you joined us late and i need you if you cant who wants us to questions at once here why have belgium germany and scotland thus far failed to extradite. To answer the extradition request from spain for the mons and his colleagues who went into exile is because they recognize that these are politically motivated charges not criminal offenses that theyve committed and what are the implications of this verdict for other separatist parties across the continent in scotland for example. The different german belgian scots courts did not accept the initial accusation of rebellion which was what was drawn up by the investigatory judge which is the equivalent of the. Attorney general figure in. And i was sacked from courts. So the whole question fell back on sedition. Its now been requested for puts them on to be by the same investigatory judge especially in belgian courts all right and the implication is undefined yeah implication sedition is very problematic it means 2 Different Things it means. Actually aggregate aggravating and creating some kind of riot or it means doing so by propaganda so this is a sign of a problem that always affects and always has affected the question of freedoms ok. Yes well just go on ok there im afraid were going to have to leave it thank you all for being with us today Elena Henrique and christiane and thank you for watching as a waste of good you can see the program again at any time just by going to the web site at aljazeera talk calm for the discussion join us at our Facebook Page youll find that at facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story and you can join the conversation on twitter on handle at a. J. Inside story from me adrian said again and the whole team here in doha thanks for watching well see you again but i thought. I. When say to really know someone you must walk a mile in their shoes. Follow in their footsteps as they forge their way in the was. Aljazeera shares these personal journey its. Inspiring stories of people persevering on their chosen path. Witness documentaries on out here. On the legacy of south africas a n c whats the point made any quality for these what is the plough how does gold take us how i believe and how perceptions have changed of this former Liberation Movement turned government you think is appropriate for a man who went to prison for defrauding ball him and corruption to run your policies working group on corruption and that the hosam goes head to head with my leg and betty we look at it seems not exactly but we add that i get immigration. We understand the differences. And the similarities of cultures across the world so no matter how you take it aljazeera will bring in the news and Current Affairs that matter to. Aljazeera. I really felt liberated as a journalist was. Going to the truth was and i would say thats what this job. Im stan grant in the top stories on aljazeera turkeys president wretched type insists the military operation in syria will continue until these countries objectives have been achieved speaking to his government a short time ago he reiterated that he is not against the Syrian People but against what he calls violent forces in the region. But is no doubt a carton of us in turkey we havent come to this point suddenly starting this operation after our struggle against the steere organization this is been a 40 year history and also within syria it has an 8 year history in the last 40 years tens of thousands of people have lost their lives and its cost us hundreds of millions to our country our country under any circumstances always delivers its responsibilities as allies
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