Youre the you are the 2 of the key officials with responsibility for ukrainian policy. I mean if the president of states is going to have a call with the leader of ukraine why what why wouldnt you ordinarily be involved with preparation sir we work for the department of state in an embassy overseas and in preparation for a president ial phone call that responsibility lies with and staff of the National Security council normally if there is enough sufficient time National Security staff can solicit information usually from the state department we can draw in the embassy but thats only Background Information and my understanding having never worked at the National Security council is that National Security staff write a memo to the president and none of us see that outside of the National Security staff ok so the the the charge a or the the u. S. Ambassador to the country wouldnt ordinarily be on a call with a foreign leader. Thats correct would not. And did colonel the men or anyone of the National SecurityCouncil Staff reach out to you mr kent in preparation for the call. Was given notification the day before on july 24th and to the extent i had any role it was to reach out to the embassy give them the heads up and ask them to ensure that this secure Communications Link in the office the president of ukraine was functional so the call could be patched through from the white house situation room that youre providing any substantive advice to colonel than men about about the call and what ought to be the the official position i was not asked and i did not provide ok same with you about that or the same and the call was scheduled you know you testified earlier that the call was on again off again and after the july 10th meeting with ambassador bolton the consensus was the call was not going to happen is that correct i would not say that was a consensus the state departments position was that a call between the 2 president s would be useful and once party won the 1st ever absolute majority in parliamentary elections on july 21st the idea of a congratulatory call made eminent sense from our perspective ok and the call was scheduled. And did you get a readout ambassador taylor initially from the call. I didnt discuss or. Read the we all read the statement that the ukrainians put out. I got a readout several days later from mr morris and National Security council ok and are you mr kent. I likewise 1st saw the ukrainian statement and i believe the next day july 26th which would have been a friday i did get a partial readout from Lieutenant Colonel than me yes im a messenger use of it do you train to read i was cryptic is that just because its initially written in ukrainian and translated to the us. No its as a general rule both United States and other countries including ukraine will put out very short summaries that kind of hit the highlights of the discussion but without going into detail ok and you mentioned it was cryptic why did you think it was cryptic. Knowing now what you know having read the transcript and looking back at their summary as i recall i dont recall the exact words but if theyd said that there were. Issues to be pursued in order to improve relations between the 2 countries or Something Like that it seems pretty ordinary it seems very ordinary your president alinsky very next day we were we had a meeting with him the very next day and to present to one ski raise any concerns about his views of the call he said. So right so. Thats a vulgar bustle and were in his office and we asked him i think how the call he said call was fine i was happy with the call ok and digital era dish no readout subsequently a call like when did you 1st learn that the. The call contained things that concerned you. Was it not until september 25th. Mr. Morrison the say brief me several days d later. Before the end of july and he i think is where i said in my testimony that he said it could have gone better and he said it meant that the call mention mr giuliani he also said that the call mention the former ambassador the both of those were concerning giuliani was 1st raised on a call by president s lenski correct i dont recall if it could have been well i have i have it here if youd like its on page. 30 of age 3 the 1st mention giuliani is from president s alinsky its on page 3. And president selenski says i will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with mr giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that mr giuliani will be able to travel to ukraine and we will meet once he comes to ukraine if it surprise you again i didnt have the transcript of the time all i heard was that the giuliani was mentioned by mr morris and said that july was mentioned in the in the call but the ways alinsky states it here it sounds like he is very much looking forward to speaking with americas mayor. Thats what i found out when i read the transcript on the 25th of september so ok now. Mr kent corruption in ukraines endemic correct thats correct and it affects. The courts the prosecutors and there are historically been problems with. All the prosecutors in ukraine correct. I would say up until the new set of prosecutors appointed by president selenski in the last 2 months correct ok and so the the u. S. Government the consensus opens the state department and the National Security council and the white house is that so once hes the real deal hes a real reformer hes genuinely interested in rooting out corruption prosecuting the bad guys correct i would say we are cautiously optimistic and we will work wherever there is the political will to do the right thing in of but forward to genuine reform and at the heart of the corruption is this oligarchy are like garko system corrects where where the oligarchy take control by a virtual faffed of. You know for example the right to Certain Energy licenses correct that is one element yes or and the company. Its leader so cesky he has a little bit of a storied history of corruption doesnt it mr he was minister of energy from 2012012 under the pro russian government and he used his Regulatory Authority to award Gas Exploration licenses to companies that he himself controlled that would be considered an act of corruption in my view yes certainly self dealing certainly self dealing and self enriching and how did the Ukrainian Government ultimately pursue that. In the spring of 2014 the Ukrainian Government the new government after the revolution the dignity turned to partners particularly the u. S. And the u. K. To try to recover tens of billions of dollars of stolen assets the 1st case that we tried to recover that money came from mr ski Serious Crimes Office in the u. K. It already opened up an investigation they worked with us and the ukrainian authorities developed more information the 23000000 dollars was frozen until somebody in the general Prosecutors Office of ukraine shut the case issued a letter to his lawyer and that money went poof essentially paid a bribe to make the case go away that is our strong assumption yes or ok now at any point time is as any anyone in the Ukrainian Government tried to reinvestigate that or did that did those crimes just go unpunished and was he free to go. Mr he spent time as far as i understand in moscow in monaco after he fled ukraine we continued to raise as a point of order that because u. S. Taxpayer dollars had been used to try to recover frozen assets that we have a few do serious sponsibility and we continued to press ukrainian officials to answer for why alleged corrupt prosecutors had closed a case. And we have till now not gotten a satisfactory answer so to summarize we thought the muckle is look just good stolen money we thought a prosecutor had taken a bribe to shut the case and those were our main concerns and are you in favor of that matter being. Fully investigated and prosecuted i think since u. S. Taxpayer dollars are wasted i would love to see the ukrainian Prosecutor Generals Office find who with the corrupt prosecutor was that took the bribe and how much i was paid and thats what i said to the deputy prosecutor general on february 3rd 2015 but in addition to prosecuting the person that took the bribes shouldnt be organization or individual that sponsored the bribes be prosecuted i would agree that the ukrainian law for authority should uphold the rule of law and hold people count for breaking ukrainian law so is this company volved lots of lots of criminal activity correct i do not know that but it over the years its been involved in in a number of questionable bionics for ect i would say that its the largest private gas producer in the country and its business reputation is mixed. So to the extent that a new regime is coming in under president selenski it certainly would be fair for the new prosecutor a genuine prosecutor to reexamine old crimes that hadnt sufficiently been brought to justice right i believe that the new prosecutor general roussillon made a statement to that and that they would be reviewing past cases but keep in mind this is a country where those that commit crimes generally never get held to account so theres a lot to review ok now this. The bribe was paid and what youre the best of my knowledge the case against the former minister was shut down december 24th team ok and right around that time barisan is starts adding officials to its board is that correct. There standing is yes that ski invited a series of new individuals to join the board in 2014 and you know what his strategy was in adding officials to his board i have never met mr ok and who are some of the folks he added to the board the most prominent person he had to the board was the former president of poland alexander question of ski and anyone else there were a number of others including some americans and the most prominent one in this context is 100 biden ok so 100 bidens added to the board abridgement how do you think that creates a problem that there is my maybe adding people to it for for protection purposes. Sir i work for the government i dont work in the corporate sector and so i believe that companies build their boards with a variety of reasons not only to promote their Business Plans was was 100 biden a Corporate Governance expert i have no idea what 100 biden studied at university or what his c. V. Says my guess is he the Jeffrey Sonnenfeld of the ukraine i have no awareness or knowledge of what his background was and what he may have done on the border and so you dont know whether he has any business experience in ukraine prior to joining brazils board ive heard nothing about Prior Experience now and you know if he speaks ukrainian i do not you know if he possesses any other element other than the fact that he is the son of at the time the sitting Vice President i do not ok and besser taylor do you know whether 100 biden offers anything other than the fact that his dads a former Vice President. Dont want the time was the Vice President i have no knowledge of. But you would agree raises questions right he was getting bait i think 50000. 00 a month to to sit on the board do you know if he really took you to dicker ukraine so mr doesnt say again you know a 100 biden relocated to the ukraine no knowledge you know mr cat. Again no knowledge ok so he is getting paid 50000. 00 a month but we dont know whether he had any experience he had any. He spoke the language or whether he moved to ukraine correct correct now at this time Vice President biden was taking a specific interest in ukraine wasnt he was and could you tell us about that i believe while he was Vice President he made a total of 6 visits to ukraine 1 may have been during the old regime you had a covert shin that would make 5 visits after the revolution of dignity which started february 24th ok and you were the d. C. M. The deputy chief of mission at this time at the Time Starting in 2015 yes and Vice President biden come when you were when you were posts he did not i came back for ukrainian Language Training and so i missed several visits now youve seen Vice President biden. Is he sort of given a. Speech hes. A little folksy about how he went into ukraine and he told the ukrainians that if they dont fire the prosecutor theyre going to lose their 1000000000. 00 in loan guarantees youve seen that correct i have i think it was a speech at the council of Foreign Relations in january 20th right and you also said that hes been there you know ukraine 13 times do you know if thats accurate the best of my knowledge when he was Vice President he made 6 visits and did the state department ever express any concerns to the Vice President s office the Vice President s role at the time in gauging on ukraine presented any issues no the Vice President s role was critically important it was top cover to help us pursue our policy agenda ok but. Given 100 bidens role and persons board of directors at some point you testified your deposition that you expressed some concern to the Vice President s office is that correct that is correct and what did they do about that concern that you expressed i have no idea i reported my concern to the office of the Vice President ok and that was the end of it nobody. You would have to ask people who work in the office the Vice President during 2015 but after you expressed that concern of a perceived conflict of interest at least. The Vice President s engagement in ukraine didnt decrease did it grech because the Vice President was promoting u. S. Policy objectives in ukraine and 100 bidens role on the board of barisan i didnt see the state it to the best of my knowledge it didnt and my concern was that there was the possibility of a perception of a conflict of interest now ambassador taylor i want to turn to the discussion of the irregular channel you describe in in fairness this is this your regular channel of diplomacy. Its not as outlandish as it could be is that correct its not as outlandish as it could be. Ok we have ambassador volcker whos a former Senate Confirmed bassett or nato a long Time State Department diplomat and youve known ambassador volcker for years correct thats correct a man of unquestioned integrity correct thats correct and somebody with Incredible Knowledge of the region with very good knowledge of the region and the best interests of the United States im sure thats right and the best interests of ukraine. Its 1st priority is clearly the United States ok and to the extent that ukraine has an implication. For that yes ok great as well and the 2nd member of the regular channel is ambassador silent who is Senate Confirmed basser to the e. U. So hit his involvement here while. You know not necessarily part of his official duties as the ambassador to the e. U. Is certainly is not outlandish for him to be interested in engaged pursuant to the president or secretary pompous direction correct its a little unusual for d the Us Ambassador to the e. U. To play a role in ukraine policy ok and you know my dear regular but its certainly not outlandish and then secretary perry is the 3rd member of the irregular channel. Certainly a. You know Senate Confirmed official somebody with deep experience in Energy Markets and he was pursuing some you know liquefied National Natural gas projects in ukraine thats correct risk us and so his involvement secretary perrys involvements perfectly acceptable it is ok now this this is your regular channel as it developed when did you determine that it became problematic and in your Opening Statement and then if id yourself appropriately is the the the leader of the regular channel at least a participant though theres another leader of the of the regular channel so when did you 1st of all have concerns that the irregular channel was was being problematic so i arrived in and gave in mid september by late september a couple of phone calls. With. Here i think even june right june started as of this writing june 17th admitted use of to thank you. And so by the end of june. I had begun to hear references to investigations. As is something that would have to happen prior to the meeting that the President Trumpet offered to as influenced ok and that began to raise questions for me ok now youve known about it or volcker and youve certainly have a reason the no ambassadors on what did you do at this point or did you ever try to wrest control of the irregular channel i didnt try to wrest control of the irregular channel a do that at the time when i vote were not why not though if you had if you had just concern because its got to at the t