1400000000 people. By income all santamaria here in the library of the National Museum of qatar will this trade war between the worlds 2 biggest economies have repercussions far beyond their own shores were seeking answers today as the president and founder of the center for china and globalization dr wang talks to aljazeera. Dr wang thank you for joining us thank you for talking to aljazeera i think for 18 months now we have heard the story of the socalled trade war between the United States and china but we hear it mostly through the prism of the United States possibly because donald trump shuts the loudest about it but we certainly havent heard much of the chinese reaction other than when they put their own tariffs on im interested to start by just if you can tell me how has the story for the 18 months played out in china is it is it a big deal. There certainly is a big do i mean you know china in the u. S. Relation this year is exactly 40 years of diplomatic ties china opened and the 1978 and on january 1st 179 china u. S. Diplomatic type so a chance open up at large and opened up to the u. S. And actually for the last 4 decades it has theres a bomb so theres up and downs but not as big as surprised as i expect this one and i remember the present time come to china 2017 bamber he had a talk 150000000000 deal was signed so you see such a high turn 25 even 30 percent of tariff on such a big amount 250000000000 we have a high 500000000000 or whatever its president so so they certainly made the chinese a confuse and and also you know really troubled President Trump will say oh were winning here were winning the trade war when in fact a lot of people in america saying no were not winning actually this is affecting us as u. S. Businesspeople is it if we mirror that in china is it having a you know a i dont think theres a theres a lot of Economic Impact there is there could be some psychological impact people just proper perhaps you know it was holding from further heavy investing or maybe rolling back a bit of the employment on that but basically i think both china and the u. S. Looking to us the ability and a deal that can be truly beneficial so so i think but they dont see as described in china as present trouble that oh everythings a collapse everything a stock market crash no i mean i mean except that the park price has come up due to the swine flu i mean you dont see any major changes no we dont feel it i mean there could be early to be slowing down but but still china keeps maintain the 6. 6 percent g. D. P. Growth every year adding another australia to it with g. So so its a one china richard that kind of magnitude and they still keep 6 percent of the original base of year after year that thats incredible i mean so so. Naturally you can see china slowing down from a 6. 5 to 6. 2 is crashing or is still the best one of the best in the world so i think i have to you know interpret how to interpret that could china have reacted more aggressively itself you know with the there was the 200000000000. 00 or tariffs on 200000000000. 00 worth of goods at a rate of i think it was 10 percent and china replied with 60000000000 and then again another 200000000000 went on a 25 percent of china again in a reaction to the 60000000000. They playing along in their all because of the proportionally you know chinas important proportion corresponding to us a proportion of the import thats where they exercise the tariff of each other but you know china cannot match in absolute numbers with us because you know china was not really that in line with us in terms of exact the same amount of import of each other you know the thing is that the Chinese Market already a home market for us you know the reason the u. S. Industry air space aircraft industry and you know high Tech Industry everybody in china Consumer Market everything is because china is buying a lot of the u. S. Good product and particularly you love the u. S. Company is invested in china selling in china so thats not counted as u. S. Exports right so but then they got all the benefit back you know like oh well one President Trump announced the tax reduction and. Said theyre going to in a few years ago to repatch it backs 350000000000. 00 u. S. Dollars so thats incredible thats all the money they made overseas so including china so so you can see but that money probably is not counted as a deficit the trade deficit for the u. S. Because china may you know. Performed china made the 50 dollars 100 dollars but sells thought for a 1000. 00 but then china may have a balance theyve made take a 600. 00 or 800. 00 as if china made all the money off of that so its not accurately reflect the situation another facet of the trade war was august of this year when the United States declared china to be a currency manipulator and i think thats an easy phrase to throw around and certainly again the white house has done that maybe you can just explain to us. In simple terms what a currency manipulator is and also does does china fit into that mold is a really you know you have to there is a little theres quite a few quite theory and that is where they define terrorism a little later and china is not matching any of those you know china actually didnt really it was to float a floating around a 6. 00 per us dollar. But thats not you know china did not drastically devalued or do anything to do that so i think its an accurate assessment of that i think theres 2 labor china as a currency manipulator is not correct so then how. I wont say how does the u. S. Get away with that but how are they just interpreting the data differently thats great i think thats over no u. S. Is losing their credibility on that is because even though they said on their own when you match what china is doing its not just china those are todays china the little inflation on that flatter the larger according to the markets which are in that us maybe china is going to they saw that as a as an indicator but then you see now they dont see that anymore so so you see its. The basically that is decided by the market but Chinese Government has of course going to let not only allowed you to devalue. You know as as world tell us is the thinking no not really so the picture im getting from years we receive explained all of this so well to us is that this is a its its an economic versus a political story interests of 2 countries. It should be about the economics but actually is it actually more about the politics certainly coming from the american side its about political selfinterest and where they want to position themselves against china. I think theres a bit of that and i think you know u. S. Was initially when they gauge china they were thinking ok that as we go along we are 2 system were converging we will become the same you know the china we as the middle class growing there will be more more. Universal suffrage and then they were they will have a similar system as us but thats a thats a bit of expectation i think that you know in. A culture in east asia you know if you choose a society you have a single poor as one party you have a japan i mean even japan is a one party or the time almost so china you know you have to really look at that differently with 5000 years of history but if one you know if the if the government can really why in 5 years plan after now every 5 years plan keep the Economic Growth i think the Economic Growth and prosperity for its citizens is the biggest digital message for the government probably to exercise the governance and you see for the last 4 decades china has lifted 800000000 people out of property china has now become the 2nd largest economy in the war china is the largest trading nation for 130 countries china in the last 1015 years you know build up the high speed rail way to the best Faster Network in the ward and the total length of that is equal to the next 10 countries combined so you think this is all getting overlooked because its become about trade and the trade and i actually say socalled trade war because i think you know a war is a strange way to describe really whats going on but do you think that has actually overshadowed the rest of the chinese story absolutely i think it is true it was you know they didnt look at the chief been the Chinese Government and the Chinese People have working so hard to have you know that china is a contributor of 30 percent. Every year of that world g. D. P. Gross i mean if we have not become one of the strong locomotive of the World Economy so if china collapse if china really gets bad and not going to keep its 6 percent above g. D. P. Growth china could export famine china could export refugees china could become a very chaotic and that would that be a ideal situation for other countries i dont think so so so its really important to see that china if we can have really can do well if they can lift 800000000 people out of property and cut 70 percent of world propre property by by by percentage thats you know let it be and i remember well the job in the late leader of china it doesnt matter is a black cat or white cat as long as catches mice so if this system works if this is more than china based on its a cultural you know. Tradition and heritage so why not let it be you know i think more out of the article. Misunderstanding and theres not enough communication and theres a lot of fear out of this then its comes down to the trade war and even for trade the war is worth a lot of the interpretation because china wasnt really beneficial for example you are saying they got there all the trade deficit but on the other service treat us as a big star plus theres 1000000000. 00 Chinese Students study in the u. S. Contributed 20000000000. 00 a year the streaming in Chinese Tourists to around the u. S. In a country another sort of building a year and all those that are counted in our channels are paying a lot of pain tens and paying a lot of i. P. R. Fees and things like that you know everything youve described of china is really capitalism personified and yet it remains a communist nation is that problem for china how does it operate 2 systems effectively what i think there is a theres a quite a bit of misunderstanding. The chinese system chinese actually is a mixed economy will be impacted on this market reform china is basically the market economy the government is in those Central Planning is really getting you know i mean totally out of money opens all the sectors and then you look at china composition it has a you know private sector which employs 90 percent of the workforce contribute about the 60 to 70 percent of chinas g. D. P. Gross and then there is another maybe 1015. 00 or 20 percent of so eat you know contributor chinese the g. D. P. And then theres not a 10 percent a multinational so its really good the combination of private sector some is so hes a multinational so its a its a hybrid car but you can say that its a black economy but with the chinese characteristics so i think in that kind of system its stabilized the employer provides all employment to the citizens but also if theres a disaster you know social is about stability so you can also take take that you know not as profitable levels so so and also the chinese are going go and it was a buy it on Road Initiative that that all comes together i just wonder how long that can be maintained and i know that sounds odd given as you say theres a 5000 year history of mirrors very yes but i wonder as we move more and more and as this Service Catalyst nature takes over more and more one should get to a stage one day when the people actually want but a democratic country that you know that they dont want to be that mixed culture mixed economy they actually want to be a fully Democratic Society well i think you know. I mean the professor said that the end of the history even he himself think there was a conclusion draw too early but you see actually given for the western style democracy its not the same and its not really achieved what has been going on you can see there we have seen the populism we see the brex. It for several years. It hasnt been done weve seen. The yellow vast weve seen you know all those recently arrested in the span chile and in the middle east of course as well so isnt this kind of a you know if its really totally rely on the socalled Democratic Movement its not really you know its creating a lot of problems so its not a panacea for the problem so so i think that we have to bear in mind the technology the internet the mobile phones and everything its creating a virtual. Material democracy for example in china 111000000000 smart for users every day there theyre taking their votes what to buy work to shop where to go over to where to watch what which rest on the day theyre using their cell or phone to cast their votes every day thats a market economy and also on the other hand china is watched by 200 some countries the United Nations you know a solid in the media and theyve been theyve been theyve been criticizing china on theyve been pinpoint china every day so china leadership and also you know general people lead in china they know whats going on theyve been theyve been feedback about all this criticism and servers of course so that they can reflect they can really respond and also china is really on the think tanks and acts per system visibility studies the chinese grays the world bank in a Competitive Bidding system so everything in china is is is more internationalized i dont see how you know under this kind of system is any different as long as people are really happy and then as long as they are really getting a beacon on benefit maybe theres a little bit of. So shoe individual right maybe not perfectly practiced but china is a collective society anyway but his hunger i mean i mentioned hong kong just in passing is. Sure a little bit of a wake up call for china as well just a reminder of what people do sometimes want and i know its a different system in hong kong you know this is what i hope issues on a similar item of the hong kong is the exactly because the 102. 00 system china let a free hand of hong kong and let hong kong people decide their own governance and future but thats probably connected to Hong Kong Young people. You know desire and thats so that people felt as raised the prices so high they cannot afford housing they can theres no job of it and also you know what hong kong is also not really catching up on the new sectors and the new new new Development Impetus actually used to when they take over in 1997 hong kong comes about 30 or 40 percent of chinas g. D. P. Now you know has taken over hong kong so so you see so there is a bit of a gap and those young people in hong kong make same as mainland but they but the the same that when they may they cannot afford to live in stout in hong kong so i think thats where the problem i think the future for that is really to integrate hong kong with a great begun to. Hong kong and then so that young people coming across the border to do work and married and start to go to university and so they can Social Security and hospital you know everything that that they can really solve that problem lets look at china then in the context of the rest of the world what did you say before the growth rate was at the moment what the knowledge they maintained their latest these 6. 2 so. Incredibly strong yes i mean its gone down from the great 10 days of 16 percent but its still by world standards very strong the International Monetary funds Global Outlook for 29 t. They think its Global Growth is going to slow to about 3 percent yes and that actually this trade war between china and the u. S. Could be a large factor in that you have a little bit of agree and i totally agree i was i was with Christine Lagarde last year at the munich a secure conference and and also the new chief former c. E. O. Of war back at the same panel and you know they made a prediction is absolutely right because you see the thing about the china u. S. Trade ways that it dampens confidence its actually a make people reluctant to invest and those people you know the value chains are hated on that because china is at the center of the global value chain you know a lot of things goes through china and then china is the number one per producer of 200 some products in the world so if china is really hit by this trade war but old other suppliers from from other regions from other countries were only fact affected and also so you return that you have a factor u. S. As well so i dont see how you know how the World Economy will maintain such a strong growth. And then become effective how dangerous is 3 percent given that we are only 10 years now since the start of the Global Financial crisis if were getting down to 3 percent again how risky is that for a quote unquote global recession no thats why i mean this this partial deal with the present trump and china strike last month is absolutely crucial because if we do not do that i mean the 2 biggest economic power in the word and then if they if they really fight i mean all the others were suffer absolutely and then we drag the world into recession and thats quite possible too and we may not have another financial crisis because this is really a long. Situation i think that we should realize that we we need to do that but it was an even worse is that there are some people in the us thinking about that decoupling also we have a 2 track world and things like that so we have a you cannot. Have economic nato now we cant afford the military war now you may want to get into economic war and thats going to be very dangerous how would china whether any economic Global Economic downturn because there was a move 5 probably more than 5 years ago for china to turn away from. Exports and actually try and