Important to me is talking to people understanding what theyre going through so that i can see the headlines in the most human way possible. Cure the disease we believe everyone has a story worth hearing. Najam mourns the latest victims of what the u. N. Calls unprecedented violence in the sun held in egypt france with almost 5000. 00 troops there is meeting regional leaders to decide what to do next as the military campaign failed and cook the conflict spread further in west africa this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im melting down is there more than 4000 west africans killed in just 12 months the United Nations says last year was the worst yet in the fight against armed groups in the sile the u. N. Says its a number precedented rise in terrorist file and france and 5 regional countries have files ins of troops fighting groups some of whom a link to eisele and al qaeda but anger against the operation and against france is growing now president macro is hosting a summit to discuss whether french soldiers should stay the touch about live reports from paris. In december the bodies of 71 soldiers from the asia nates a military base in the capital niamey a grim reflection of growing violence in asylum they were killed in an attack claimed by i saw in the west of the country this is i decided to come myself to give my nations gratitude inconsolable but not all defeated to these men plucked from the affection of the loved ones in the prime of life for what they are to us our heroes our martyrs the french president emanuel macro visited me share to pay his respects just 3 weeks earlier in paris michael and led a memorial for 13 francs. Soldiers killed in a Helicopter Crash in mali more than 4000. 00 french troops are fighting armed groups in the syal alongside forces from the share bikini faso chad mauritania and mali the g. 5 countries but is the casualties mount so his hostility against former colonial power france on this should not be i notice and to many countries an anti french sentiment is no prospering without any clear political condemnation i cannot accept sending our soldiers into the field in countries where our presence is not clearly requested the deployment is only being questioned in the region though but also here in france where the mission is poorly understood by the public and theres growing pressure on michael to justify frances involvement but this is often the path for 6 years with about Cannes France has been in the saddle and it seems were the Tipping Point there are no real results people in sile are positive about the situation the threat hasnt been eradicated so the g 5 saw how countries are asking themselves if france is really the only country that has solutions maybe other countries can help people wonder if its time to stop increasing a French Military presence it is costly to africans and france mike ross says if french troops are to continue fighting in sile he wants a greater commitment from g 5 leaders hes expected to achieve that for now but whats less clear is for how long natasha aljazeera paris. Right lets introduce our panel now in paris we have emmanuel do poorly he is president of the institute of european perspective and security in dhaka the senegalese capital Hanna Armstrong is Senior Consulting sadil analyst at the International Crisis group and in dunstable just outside of london in the United Kingdom we have Emmanuel Chrissie adding. Hes the director of research and a professor of Security Studies at the coffee and an International PeacekeepingTraining Center and welcome to you all so president macro a manual in paris president mccraw has summoned the g. 5 leaders what he wants from them is a ringing endorsement of French Military intervention in the region but clearly its failed what do you think hes going to get from the g 5 leaders of a force is asking for a clear commitment or clear a commitment of the french involvement in that region its a very long involvement the 1st troops on the the operations of our was sent in january 2013 so 7 years from now theres been a huge amount of fun troops which have been located for the fight against the insurgency both in by the and now in of wider region of the hill and those the definition or redefinition of the french a military capacity that is the 1st reason why the summit has been asked and is taking place in full white ball of course we all have in mind that during the last 4 accidents which for the life of 30 of our soldiers 7 came from. When you say and when you say therefore sorry to it sorry to interrupt on simple emmanuelle but when you say that there is a different perspective there are different conditions right now isnt it clear that French Military intervention basically has failed and a new a completely new approach needs to be adopted for the armrests in the hell region. I would not say that the central creationists failed 1st of all the french the 1st punch operations suffered a mission which had the purpose to stop the. Terrorist groups linked to the suspicion is tried group perfectly managed to prevail and to prevent the dislocation of money that was in general 2013 the city of gold to secure fumble through the city for a few dollars were liberated live to eat liberated from that perspective about what has failed or what is on the pressure of what is in discussion in evolution the mutation of the threats that no longer burdens the money but of course is the what is open to a Wider Perspective in an area which is huge we have a tendency to compare it to the size of your 5 or 6 times the size of europe therefore not if its an Impossible Task for only 4500. 00 central goes to overcome alone its perspective all right i think one of the might still of which were discussed in full the 2nd 2nd perspective just in one place is again saying that we could not be alone on the pacific and this is why we have invited our european friends to be more directive on that respect our right coming to hana in dhaka crisis group field in a station you work for is well named known for advocating a much more nuanced approach and i think your organization is rather critical of this rather overly militaristic approach to the to the volatility in this particular region do you agree therefore with a man well that if france is struggling on its own militarily that the other European Countries should pile in as well i think emanuel is right in the sense that the french intervention has achieved its objective. And so it would be bob stated that theres been a failure at that stage and i have heard that. To spread yes or to areas that so you had this movement and this kind of history it was merely an atom bomb. Then spread out at the center of an atmosphere of spread order reached by shared just. A pretty a soldiers and another attack. In the past month it was deemed to be that fast so what we see is not limits of the military threats and its not only not this this problem that seems to be directly answered in standing in the shit regions so our position is that there really needs to eat a political strategy and that military groups try to find these groups that it is groups is really serious labeling right now because there is a. Political strategy towards elites right they can start their group and cause such as they are several going to its i dont know grievances that some of these or were going to begin to see how we dissipate all right lets come back to that in a little while coming to you Emanuel Kwesi in dumps a dunstable unprecedented is the level of violence of last year 21000 in the region and in fact the special representative of the un for the region is alarmed at the possible spread of this conflict further into west africa along the coast i know that you are gunny in for instance is this something that you recognize as being a concern to the gun and Political Class at the moment martin this spreading crisis is a cause. For the cool starsky im in print tonights norths im president we saw the attacks in the north and i thought. We are seeing the extremists be more daring exploits and mining and their revenues that terrorize their offer. To fund their activities and we also experience in the spirit of apartness to relationships and partnerships that puts the states and that in and and the immense pressure and im thinking in particular of those countries that have only recently emerged from civil war like sierra leone like liberia they must be particularly vulnerable to any of the spreading of this kind of conflict but i mean there were bullets experienced by quite a number of the costars to give me liberia salute as you mentioned is that its not just about the violent extremists themselves who are coming in these countries are experiencing new forms of infiltration people who seem to be bringing trade my crew credits so share with us so what the suffering really is that we are seeing that spreads and then in food trish of communities in your mom about the bar lets actually just please that it will spread very quickly this proves the could start governments and that meant stress and coming back to emmanuel in paris a given i mean you described it as a mutating as a me tating conflict what therefore should the response be you suggested the president wants his European Partners to to support the effort but as one it was saying it probably requires a lot more than just a military stick response. A salute well i didnt say that the military response with the only response i said that we have to starts with the beginning which is to eradicate the tears do which it which our or a reality both and he drank a tough and befit do a stomach states more precise eat the is that if not mixtape and that if one harra but of course it takes more than that its it takes a global approach its the if it takes of course and it think to the capacity of the of this states which are under pressure to undertake the vital or a perspective of a vital responsibility security for the citizen not only to focus on the sense of but also to take in consideration the pretty free off the boarding countries the boarding the the of the boulder to control the bold that and of course this is whether maybe we should put more emphasis so a globe or approach which of course would big isnt development of or the capability of france is not only present when it comes to military for about to teeth at the same time as the g 7 g g d 5 was of bill being a bit difficult the would difficulty its a joint force in july of 2017 we decided to launch these islands are gathering more than 10000000000. 00 of euro gathering more than 10 bidding of yos from 818. 00 a countries not only europe the last country to join an hour japan and kanada and canada so of course we do have the and question about its of course a global and joint ive put both from the International Community and this is why are asking for more sorry diety from our your piggy not eman it not only emanuel i dont nations must be indicated im cant write or eye on your which yet it is in full ive given give me and i did then and you set that 8000000000 your is his baby raise how is that 8000000000 youre as good to be spent on this particular problem a sorry 11 hows it going to be spent well there you very precise 3 laver precise the question is gathering 800 more like 841st of all in agriculture to take in consideration the fact that all of the states are boden by the immense amount of money that they are spending for defense the average of defense spending of the of the country is the 20 percent of the g. D. P. That must change so more money for the essential roots to build strategy and to build governance education and agriculture so through all of these are local or. Bottom up projects when it comes to agricultural education or for those social and and and projects more precisely bring rebring water and bring in the cup a city for the population not to move the country which is under huge pressure is the key to fossil more than 500000. 00 people have fled from the house on taking some situation thats a big part of the totally 20 percent 20 or 25 percent of the total is no longer on the authority of the state right and let me assume and really give that up a city for the state to read through its governance and its deficit you should deliver and of course this is something where france and of apartments would be focusing on the next week right ok coming to you had that something presumably youre going to really approve of 11000000000 euro is being spent on grass roots. Projects which are going to help basically provide the services that are pretty much absent because governance quite often is absence in many of these regions what about the issue of dialogue what about the issue of building the capacity of government i mean is it too simplistic to say flood the area with aid you know i think every night i dont really im not like these guys think about what im going to lead to hit us are going to do it in the current context. I think that what a lot of actors are hoping to see from the positive it is not a commitment to the same principles of the character is and elegant. But a substantial turner its tragic and it kind of clarification the same way that the president and congress as. Your successor either francis involvement i think we needed a clarification of what is or its a political strategies are going to get us out of this conflict this is the reality of developed and some of these areas after receiving the state and she knows about it once you get into that. Its you know the areas that are that are most of concern out there you see the process of as you say in order to begin to see her really builds relationships and some of these unsung particularly some. Where there are a lot of obstacles that taking place so i think that its while its good it hurts their spirits to really invest and reagents and. Can commit considerable sentenced child solves this conflict between whites and the state at their great have very little impact and unless it is unless and until there is a real serious political strategy there right that really and open a way to get to lobby to keep states how are you steves and these ads and his relations are planning on dealing with these areas where you have this strange sort of mace of you know what. You know really is often rooted in very vocal grievances so a lot of that these groups are becoming bigger and stronger because theyre feeding off the local to excell grievances that have. Guessed right and those are the those are the issues that we really need to id rather let it slip that happens putting more money and this is why. Right question i mean i think what weve identified is the fact that theres a toxic combination if you like of of local grievances some of them a long held david generations into communal tensions if you like and also a lack of governance do you get a sense that other countries particularly along the west african coast all taking note of this and if that preparing if you like to bolster themselves to prevent the spread of this conflict well i think theres a general conversation amount. Of the need to bolster themselves but let me make this point the process to both from themselves military really build the resilience communities and sharing the social welfare groups are distributed making people loyal to this states its institutions and mechanisms will be a law. Process if we take the military side over the past 20 or 30 years or so most states have not provided the our militaries with more than one percent of g. D. P. In terms of training logistics and. Their capacities to respond neither has the development of these states Water Education jobs housing been in step with. The demographic expansion so you would notice that part of the frustration that you are talking about long standing in bed dead grievances are not things that happened the last decade or so right problems that are. Transformed and are not been embellished idea of threats and huge challenges so. So the roof problems facing monitors the cost are still because theres an entire 20000000. 00 of these challenges the cost and then civilian states the problem that the f. E. C. Massive and i think it it to need not just domestically. Terms but certainly a Critical Role our interests our partners right emmanuel in paris how committed is president marc or do you think to this military presence in the region he seemed to be a little bit upset little bit irked by what were open been open demonstrations of anti french sentiment and in fact hes hes chided the g 5 leaders for allowing it to not having a more public. A more public display of support for the French Initiative how committed do you think president merkel is to keeping troops in the region. Well because of my core as i was convened of the 5 African Leaders precisely for that for a clear commitment of whether or not they want to the front for the state. Convention with the with my colleagues that the question is not only about military but its about a longer lasting presence we have been a pleasant ministry on a console for since the end of the dependents that doesnt but does not mean that we have to replace the army we are not here for that we were called to try to save what we thought was an urgency to intervene in january precisely 9 even i did it in the 19th of january but we didnt want it to stay long we are burdened by that it costs a lot of money the Public Awareness about the legitimacy of the intervention is into the gated and this is why because in my core ive opened the door to any perspective whether we should stay or whether we should go everything is on the table right as a michael has made very clear that he is a bit worried by 2 factors on a very rapid the ongoing bashing front bashing its not only inside its all of the african continent and the concurrency of because when people are calling for the end of the country to present their calling in for a new actors to come in precisely russia and china and this is a matter for the patient as well for the front of the drive thats a big a geo political conversation isnt it that we havent got much time but i really would like to get your views on this point quite often the terms used to describe the various armed groups in the region are is in the midst jihad against what does that mean what are the aims and objectives of most of these armed groups you know how do you think it is very misleading the manager whos. There sort of hands a little bit and or donna down which is you know right now at the moment. When hes not there its our or the. This is just really the most recent get a ration of conflicts that have been pretty well cherished in these countries so. You know that gives troops curious to try to free because of this state and terrorist jihad it is lost it is disturbing because that which there are other forms of relationships and optician that are there to. Do with religion or ideology theres theres a lot of problems and resources raised and ultimately sort of unravel what they do that. There is a religious sentiment. In some cases its quite sincere and i think that it made it easier to break and firefighters are artists and heres how to find something which is there like that given how it started how the troops are at that moment its not a grout and its very tempting for people to go just operatives to others those things. And this is going to require that there really needs you know our hearts are with you but i have it believe me its made its question of terrorism and character. And much of it will sit upon little political ends that originated. Right ok weve run out of time thank you all very much indeed Emanuel Dupuis in paris how strong in the senate believes capital dhaka and Emmanuel Kwesi adding talking to us to dunce from dunstable just outside of london thank you all very much indeed for a very interesting conversation and thank you as ever for watching the program remember you can see it anytime you like by going to the website aljazeera dot com if you want more discussion as i suspect you may you can go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com for a slash a. J. Inside story and theres always a twist as fair a handle is at a. J. Inside story im at Martine Dennis a for me and the whole team here in doha as i finish thank. 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