Transcripts For ALJAZ Mohammad Shtayyeh 20240713 : vimarsana

ALJAZ Mohammad Shtayyeh July 13, 2024

Only ron the bottom line on u. S. Politics and policies and their effect on the world. To see. Mind jane space in munich where World Leaders gathered for the 56 security conference among the palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh u. S. President double trouble described his middle east plan as the deal of the century the palestinians call the map of territory theyve been offered swiss cheese rather than a solution for a sovereign palestinian state so what now well explore all of this as the palestinian Prime Minister mohammed style talks to our. Palestinian Prime Minister thank you for talking to aljazeera you know where im going to start im going to start with the trump plan what the president of the u. S. Called the deal of the century he talked about it 1st 3 years ago and ive been speaking to diplomats and to prominent palestinians they all told me they thought it probably was never going to see the light of day. But did can i ask you what your thoughts were and your feelings when you saw that document for the 1st time well. It was really an insult for everybody where this sort of very long fight for freedom and independence in a suburb. On the borders of. Which we want to as big compromise so that this sort of west bank about there was only 6000. 6000 kilometer square out of was brazil to be shrinking youll get a free where that does not give us more than 11 percent of what by this time used to be so bland has been designed in a way language and ext. Is 100 israeli broke or so even the language that is used we have here a bid from israeli negotiators door to gordon the director general of the Israeli Ministry of foreign of was on how did saying that he was bought it with the plan he advised them on language and fix them song so the blonde or what they called the proposal i think it did really a road every possibility for peace between palestinians and israel he just had to listen to Prime Minister netanyahu in the white house he was thanking everyone he seemed absolutely delighted this is just what the right wing in israel of always wanted and if you look at any other plan every other plan since 1988 this gives the palestinians less territory than any of them well the question is why did not accept the plan upfront nobody has claimed to have seen the plan if netanyahu was not the coauthor of the plan then he could have said well give us time to study it and then you know has immediately accepted without and it is a reversion is the plan because it is his plan one and secondly or the american proposals really was trying to redesign the whole of the terms of reference for the Peace Process in accordance with american understanding of the conflict there is no way that american proposal can debase and our national law there is no way that american proposal ganda bless United Nations resolutions since the early days of the conflict the proposals after breadboards that is they have failed really to come up to a solution because of this sort of continuous bias of United States though of israel which is something they dont deny because israel united is this is browed to say that we are instructed you got alliance with israel and we care about israels. About is the future about about so if you have bought of the that is supposed to be a 3rd party that is supposed to be an honest broker that is supposed to be an object of many and then 100 percent in poor bios they can measure as they was not the proposal they should that they bought that has to do with united as this was implemented even before the proposal was launched that accession of jerusalem the movement of the embassy freezing Financial Aid to another one to the by the scene or thought of the all these unilateral measures that have been taken by United States it does show that the start for the americans was to fully and totally put it by the scene and back to the ward squeeze them that defeat them so they surrender so they accept President Trump is someone who sees many things in money terms one of the main things the administration is pointing out is that youre going to get a lot of money they say an economic boost of 50000000000. 00 thats a huge figure not really. 35000000000 of this supposed to be loans and the rest of it is grants on condition of bases and so on look this is sort of wrong to deal with the palestinians the palestinians need to trade politics for money and he is wrong by listing as have learned one thing from where jesus christ was born and bred like him its not with bread ones live only by the sinners they have their dignity and freedom which is more important than alou for bread so too tried to buy your wisdom for money or in return of some assistance or a shrinking but its in a geography or subordinate or a right of return put a few g. s or or these sort of things and return of the a bunch of dollars this is not what the policy is are looking for stability it brings money and money does not. Bring stability lets compare this plan with what was the International Consensus since the oslo accords let me quote the un the vision of 2 States Israel and palestine living side by side in peace and security on the basis of the pre 1967 lines with jerusalem as the capital of both states lets take those things one by one 1st a palestinian state is this a viable state you can office not 1st of all there is no offer for it but as soon as they can the proposal there is an entity and that entity is not certain and that is entity is not contiguous and that indeed the it does shut out of the whole palestinian territories into zones of of control of that is not connected and youre going to live in where years of those the president said it was a swiss cheese it is an off it is this was where we are the horrors of this was just totally disconnected from each other so that is not as the 2nd the american speaks about but is seen as have to qualify for about state after 40 years while it does given up any our immediate action today it does give us 40 years took what he 5 for that sort of entity and it didnt put for conditions for that indeed to materialize one that we recognize is that i as a jewish state 2nd we demilitarize gaza and would draw weapons from hamas and so on and thirdly we have to be good guys the question is whos going to see whether we are good or bad theyre israelis and the worst part of the story were fully and daughterly the proposal gives all of your was an end to the israelis and not only that it does take the whole issue of refugees out of the but its going to solution the problem if you dont handle the issue of refugees where there are 7000000 palestinians living and if you do comes and their support if you dont. It will be it is us that last point i want to mention to you on that but its dinners in that region have become is their billions is their billing factor look no but as the man is a member of isis nobody seen him as a member of al qaida nobodys seen as a member of any terrorist organization and so on and that is very important for the International Community to understand that by listing the us to be their billing factor in very general let me pick up some of the points youve raised there the proposed capital for this palestinian state they say it will be a palestinian state they talk of something called eastern jerusalem this seems to be the other side of the wall that israel built so its not really East Jerusalem its east of jerusalem is that your understanding its worse than that you see that here is about language they try to fool some listeners to say that with its capital in jerusalem any innocent naive politician might understand that own proposal is giving but if he has to have a capital in jerusalem for us the issue is not about the injuries on him for us the issue is that you share was that in is that that not not abu dis which is that what theyre offering you there is a big difference between saying with the euro zone as its capital or with its capital in jerusalem because there was a name has 2 sides there is the city of jerusalem which is only 6 square kilometers which is the old city and the holy bhasin and that is where we consider East Jerusalem is the city always euro zone and then you have the governor mitt of jerusalem which includes the villages around the city of uros island so when he said its got to tell in eastern jerusalem is that if it into one of the little tiny villages which is outside the ward city the 6 kilometers or euro zone m. Is an. Has been expanded by is that i am to become 65 kilometers and what the americans are proposing that this but is seen on the capital will be even outside the ward bottle of jerusalem which is in one and the worst bar or so is when they said you can choose anywhere and put it cords you know you name any city or any billet and you call it this is that accords this is totally stupid naive proposal that does not fool anybody but as soon as our body that for us is jerusalem is the city of jerusalem let me ask you about another of those issues you raised which is the refugees refugees who fled in the wars in 1967 who went to lebanon to syria to jordan there is no right of return in this plan that is on offer that i assume makes this a regional problem it is because when you are speaking i want rehabilitation oh but as you know refugees in lebanon and syria and jordan and other bases its not only about demography its its again these palestinians who have been that are with the keys and their hands of the houses that they have been pushed out over since 948. 00 they have these skis as a symbol of hope that they will return to them or there will be a just solution for their cause when this solution american out of proposing is that we have a vision over a few days and the host countries 1st of all the host countries dont accept 2nd that if you dont accept and thirdly we dont accept their want just to push the problem away from their borders keep it a lebanese problem create a syrian problem create a jordanian problem which we dont accept and without is why they couldnt with all the pressure they exerted on that can give jordan which i said you want him and legally bennys and the syrians and all nobody has accepted this american proposal visibly that if you g. s because the whole i. Of refugees is that they should there has to be a just solution and jordan has bought into it lieberman has bought into it syria has bought into it egypt has bought who do it that is where the bullets end if you g. s r. And so therefore just simply to say as if you out of solving the territorial problem with a look at but as seen as in the west bank and gaza this does not sort of the but is seen and problem when the plan was unveiled in the white house 2 leaders came from the middle east the problem was they were both israelis now mr Kushner Jared cushion of the president s son in law who did the negotiation says thats your fault because you didnt take part in the negotiations he now says as you mentioned you have 4 years that you could start negotiations with him and he says and these are his far from diplomatic words if they dont then theyre going to screw up another opportunity like theyve screwed up every opportunity that theyve ever had in their existence whats your reaction while that this sort of slogan you know that somebody is the means never missed an abortion or to thomas an abortion if this is that money was made by about youve been in 169 yes and i dont buy that because we seized every a portrait we were out of we did a huge compromise to accept the fact that we were bought out of the jordanian bill a geisha in in 1991 in the madrid conference we have accepted to negotiate with israel and conditionally we negotiated with israel even when they did not freeze jewish supplements we negotiated with the president with president graham we negotiated with president obama we negotiated with president bush the son we negotiated with president bush the father with a client on we have negotiated with every american president when whatever their boards and we have a negotiated with this hack share mirror with rabin over the net and yes so why not with him when we negotiated with our president conducted for meetings with the. Um and then of the moment where tom has taken unilateral measures that did job with di is the whole issue of final the stuff of negotiations what did the americans do even before launching that the the proposal they did freeze money for the n r one which is totally eliminating the issue of refugees they moved the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem and he said that jerusalem is that theyre not the capital of the jewish people which means to us that the americans are totally their chick thing the Palestinian Christian and muslim not the of about euro zone am and allowing a jewish domination or jewish not of the of domination of all joes in amman about all of palestine thats not acceptable to us as christian and muslim palestinians that we are then big enough people of that country colonize ation claim should not be justified on historical bases or on and it isnt just bases their issue is political is not not a is not religious and that is where we stand solid on the saudi issues what are you going to do when the next thing the trumpet ministration does and we know what its going to do it signaled already theyre not going to wait the 4 year period theyve given you to come to negotiations to annex the settlements some around netanyahu telling him to do it right now itll probably happen as soon as the israeli election is over maybe somebody is seen in the future will stand up to thank for what hes doing you know why because what the trump is doing he is endangering the security of the state to his fire that israel will not any more be a democracy which is not anyhow now and has not been before and it will not be in the future and this will not be jewish because look at the demography today if the ambit is missing the border turn at the end here is what the israelis are missing the border trying to be the most important. That the americans and they said it would have messed was that obese initiative which called for normalization of relations with israel and the return of israeli withdrawal from all arab territories that has been occupied in 6 or 7 now that look at the demographic dynamic for the 1st time in history since 1948 until today by less the unions are more by listing in muslim and christians or more by 200000 people compared to israeli jews in historical palestine between dover jordan and Mediterranean Sea what does this mean it means that is that it is a slipping into a one state reality it means that israel will never be jewish never to be democratic it means that we are going into the south african a zation of the by the scene in question well the result is that i and becomes 100 percent to state by did your and by de facto some people are saying you should help it on its way you know the argument that the best thing for you to do now would be to dissolve the Palestinian Authority put yourself under israeli control effectively become one state and legally become the majority in that state is that an option no sir its not an option because for us the issue is not about disordering the but as you know thought of you there but as usual thought is not a gift by anybody or from anybody but its generally thought of he is the result is an outcome of the sacrifices of the biased in and people what we should do is we should move the thought out there from it being an interim over to money frustration over the authority to become a state under occupation that is where we should take the things for what one secondly the International Community which is a god unto or of International Law should realize that what the american proposal is and confrontation with International Law and that is why by the way president obama has no partners whatsoever. He has no partners in europe he has no partners in the arab countries he has no bar owners and by this time 107 congressman and i mean i salute them who signed a letter to reject and synagogues as well we have had meetings with these people who didnt accept at all who really think that this american brought bohrs a number of wars and is in total confrontation with International Legitimacy with International Law with United Nations resolutions or within the american political arena there is a huge split when it comes to this they didnt accept it you talk a lot about the International Community and International Law and its clear that the geneva conventions the Security Council resolution there on your side how do you take action where is your redress in the International System because as far as i can see it there are only 2 routes one is the u. N. The u. N. Security council and of course of their israel has its trump card the u. S. Which will use its veto if you take any action you have the General Assembly where you can win a symbolic victory but it has no power on the other option is the International Criminal court its been dragging its feet now its going to launch an investigation into the situation with regard to settlements but also with regard to the violence in gaza but it is asked its judges whether its actually has jurisdiction and there are some European Countries who are taking israels side on this not. The court. Did not say that we dont have jurisdiction did not question then she didnt she didnt say that we have jurisdiction and if any body claims the abos it believes come pouring one and they have come forward and did it but also there are some people who come forward and they are on the other side there are so many countries and organizations and law and individuals who come to say that there is a court of jurisdiction on there but as you know there are so there is an argument there are some countries

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