A valued partnered to the u. S. Government working closely with us to ensure the safety of americans and saudis it continues that the department of state is concerned about the alleged activities that led to dr out. In canada any accusations of wrongdoing it says should be addressed through established legal channels the lebanese president michel aoun has dismissed calls for an Internet International investigation and to choose days devastating chemical explosion in the country he says the blast which killed at least 157. 00 people and injured thousands more could have been caused either by negligence or a missile attack 154. 00 people were killed in thousands injured in the blast and its now devastated the lebanese capital work is continuing to clear up the City Residents say there is little help from the state saying a hoarder is in beirut. People here you know they would like to see International Investigators take courts because they have lost faith in the political establishment they even question the committee that was formed by the government saying how can ministers as well as head of security agencies people who hold power how can they be questioning others when they themselves should be questioned now the government doing its best to show that its serious that it wants a transparent investigation it has a rest of the head of the Customs Department the rest of the head of a reports but people in the street say these are the low level employees these people were appointed by Political Parties Political Parties who are stronger than the states in other news at least 16 people have died after an india flight skidded off the runway while landing 190 people wrong for the boeing 737 when it crashed in carolus state airport Officials Say the pilot couldnt see the runway clearly because of heavy rain the jet split into 2 but it didnt catch fire. Dozens of passengers injured Elizabeth Branham has more from new delhi. And the actuation want to know International Commercial flight into india. Were hearing that around a 100. And. Now. Weve also got some more information about the plane. That the flight radar shows because it wasnt able to land the 1st copy tried and it was one had append that the. Clone skidded off the runway and found all the edge of the runway. That it fell into was about 35 seats like that. And grow into 2. The United States imposed sanctions on hong kongs chief executive says kerry lam is directly responsible for implementing a controversial Chinese National security law which it called a policy of suppression of a range of other officials including the territories use chief of also been targeted the relationship between the u. S. And china already strained has been steadily deteriorating over hong kongs autonomy the corona virus and 2 recent executive orders against the popular apps to talk and we chat. Because ruling party has secured a landslide win in parliamentary elections mending the power of the rajapaksa brothers the sri lanka peoples front is led by gotta buy and Mahinda Rajapaksa is his president and Prime Minister along with their allies that secured a 2 thirds majority giving the president the power to make sweeping changes to the constitution head to head is coming up next with mehdi hasan and then more news after that in about 25 minutes time i will see that do stay with aljazeera by for now. The. News. Hello im at the house and welcome to this special edition of head to head on how the Global Pandemic has put china in the crosshairs of some in the west due to the lockdown with departing from our usual fall out and going head to head with not one but 2 guests and without an audience. Just as a u. S. China trade deal was signed. A novel coronavirus. And the finger pointing began. Chinas cover up of the han virus allow the disease to spread all over the world the pandemic picked up old wounds for decades china raided our factories was short our jobs gutted our industries but has the coronavirus blame game provided a convenient deflection from his own governments failures. Amidst accusations of cozying up to china the us President Donald Trump the chinese premier for help to win this years u. S. Election thats just one of a number of stopping planes and with calls for a tougher stump speech cannot afford inaction in the long. Threat of china to the free world grows what it does the west we need to stand up to a rising china. My guest in the 2nd half of the show is former british diplomat and academic kerry brown who thinks that now more than ever the world needs cooperation rather than confrontation with china joining me in this 1st tough however is retired u. S. General Robert Spaulding he was trump senior director for National Security strategy and says he was fired for standing up to china the general is convinced that china is conducting a stealth war in pursuit of global domination and i think its the most consequential existential threat not just to america just to democracy the worlds ever seen hes been long calling for an awakening which he thinks covert 19 has finally spock it takes this coronavirus really to make people stand up and look at what kind of a regime. As in china but is it even possible to ties with and stand up to china or is making the Chinese Communist party the new and desperate resort of the worlds sole its going to mean super. General spaulding thank you for joining me on the head to head thank you great to be with you i think its fair to say youre not a fan of china youve suggested the Chinese Communist party which rules the country is a bigger threat to the west than ice is that alqaeda than Vladimir Putins russia youve accused them of using the pandemic to stop quote the 1st global war of the 21st century without a shot fired really you dont think thats even a little bit over the top well 1st of all id like to say that i really love china i love the Chinese People but you are right i do think the Chinese Communist party is the greatest threat to democracy and you know if you look at the actions that the leadership in beijing took. From shes own man he was in charge of the Coronavirus Crisis on the 7th of january between the 7th of january on the 23rd of january 5 1000000 people traveled out of many to International Destinations and this is where the virus spread in addition they were clamping down both internally and forcing the World Health Organization not to acknowledge human to human transmission and they were locking down p. P. And mass both within china and abroad using proxies so you can see theres a pattern of behavior there that clearly shows that they deliberately spread the virus they didnt lock down with in china to prevent the traveled international in spite of the fact they knew about human to human transmission general spaulding you said that the Global Pandemic which has taken nearly 150000 lives here in the us alone is quote 100 percent the responsibility of the Chinese Communist party they created which is you evidence for that pretty big claim in fact you and donald trump and others have even suggested at times that it was a Lab Experiment gone wrong maybe even a bio weapon again weighs you evidence for that given the u. S. Intelligence Community Says they do not believe it was manmade or genetically modified well ive always said quite clearly that i dont know about the origin of the virus and we are not going to know about it unless the Chinese Communist party allows us to get investigators there on the ground do have forensic investigation to find out what the origin i say forget about the origin of the virus thats not the issue the issue is they knew about human to human transmission but hit it and then their actions after the leadership in beijing knew what was going on thats what im talking about those actions unable to spread so i do want to come back to that point and examine some of the stuff youre saying but youve said i believe this particular strain was modified in a lab pompeo the u. S. Secretary statement bumpus says theres evidence it came from a Lab President trump says he has a high degree of confidence even though the u. S. Intelligence committee. He disagrees with you top Scientists Say theres no indication that it came from a lab it was engineered and youve even gone further youve said for example is it for a weapon is it so that you could create a vaccine that you were the sole recipient of the profits from your critics general might say this sounds pretty paranoid this is pretty tinfoil hat stuff well i always preface those arguments as thats my own personal opinion i dont have any facts and i dont claim to know how the virus was you dont have any i act how would you read the starts i and dramatic conclusion so the answer is we know that sure jungly was doing back related gain of function Coronavirus Research we know that she was writing reports about it she was hired to do that and we also know that our state department didnt inspection in 2018 and sent a note saying they were concerned about the safety. Protocols within the p 4 lab and on so when you look at it theres much more evidence to say that it probably related to her research then it is you know that it happened just accidentally and in a way to get 5 top scientists from the u. S. U. K. And australia wrote a paper in march in nature medicine saying we do not believe any type of Laboratory Based scenarios plausible the u. S. Intelligence community in april youll former colleagues said we see no reason to dissent from the Scientific Consensus let me ask you this about the Chinese Government you mentioned the timeline earlier about the cover up and the delay if the Chinese Communist party was trying to deliberately let covert 19 spread around the world its strange that on january 3rd they informed the w. H. O. About a strange new viral threat on january 11th they shared a genetic sequence with the world so that everyone else could start making a vaccine on january 23rd they looked down 45000000 of their own citizens in the biggest quarantine in Human History they travel out of a week before donald trump travel out of china this doesnt sound like a country thats trying to infect the rest of the world well then if you. Look at and you read that research what it says there are some patients in that research the assumptions they made say this has to be up by an inspection of the laboratory by an investigation where you question the researchers in question so they are not you know 100 percent convinced either so what about what about the chinese origin we dont know the dozen in terms of the time or is it that they were trying to spread it so taiwan sent a notice to World Health Organization saying they were concerned about human to human transmission no they didnt general general doesnt and you arent taiwan i read the taiwan notes that they simply asked a question about why patients were being treated isolation they said nothing about human to human transmission what about the 6 doctors that they brought in for questioning and told them you are spreading rumors why are you why are you talking about this but im not disputing generally the chinese going you very badly im agreeing with you the Chinese Government is authoritarian government that doesnt like transparency and clearly you know lock people up and try to shut things down but heres what i dont get general spaulding on the one hand youre arguing that the c. C. P. Infected the world they are responsible for all the deaths they unleashed a dangerous virus almost all on the other hand youre one of a group of americans who thinks the virus isnt so bad the lockdowns also necessary in the corona virus is quote not so much more deadly than the common flu youll woods full spy the way completely inaccurate you cant have it both ways china is evil for unleashing a deadly pandemic a by the way the pandemic 8 so bad anyways well because if you look at the models that were used and the amount of deaths that they were calling for and have been calling for. The amount of desert we should have seen in the United States based on the infection rate and Everything Else should have been in the millions thats what they were saying and yet what they were saying he was not on any anything like that and it would have been in the millions we had some lockdowns which you oppose and donald trump clearly opposes well and you look at whats happened here in spite of the lockdowns what if we had weve had the lowest fatality rates of any of the countries out there except im a leaf i want to know you know because you know if you want to and i was the 5th full 6 times will tell if you are in the world according to Johns Hopkins you know thats not true no cunt virtually no country did a good job but ill tell you one that did one that 70 miles off the coast of china is taiwan taiwan had the best. I dont really know one of ours do you disagree with general lets just agree i agree with you taiwan did a great job vietnam which shares a border with china did a great job south korea not far from china did a great job japan not far from china did a great job its funny that all these countries needed to china did good jobs in a country far away from china is blaming china for its record death toll isnt this whole blame china thing a political strategy by the Republican Party in fact a 57 page memo was circulated im sure youre aware among Republican Party politicians in april advising them to explicitly aggressively attack china for the pandemic as part of their reelection strategy while blaming democrats for being and i quote soft on china you seem to be just tell it to a Republican Party line this is politics this is not signs so i have nothing to do with the Republican Party i call things the way i see it the reason the country isnt that you mention i believe fared well during the coronavirus is because they did not believe what the Chinese Communist party was saying and they enacted measures that was not called for by the World Health Organization by the way i have been highly critical of our own c. D. C. For following the World Health Organization and not following the c. D. C. Of to what taiwan if it wished i think had it correct it. Interesting that you say that these countries you mention didnt believe china and yet today were told china combi trusted china kompany believe china is about actor you say that donald trump says the Republican Senate and yet donald trump who you work for and i believe whose reelection you support spend the 1st few months of this crisis heaping praise on the Chinese Government literally believing every word they told him he said they were working hard working very hard working really hard they were leading a Successful Operation he said doing a very good job on the coronavirus he said he appreciated the efforts and transparency he said i want to thank president xi who we also regularly refers to as a good friend and yet now you say chinas to blame maybe you should tell donald trump what im not sure what were talking about here do we want to talk about the president s Communication Style or the message he puts out or are we going to talk about the Policies Institute i want to know about his message to be honest i dont buy this idea that theres a difference between message and policy i cant speak for the president i dont know but you support him you praise him you like would have had a great you look good you could imagine him vice did you notice the fact that her greets heap praise on Bernie Sanders ive read your book ive checked out your tweets you said in june on twitter i like president s whose best friends are leaders of the c. C. P. Donald trump says and i quote we love each other in reference to xi jinping he says we will be friends no matter what Donald Trumps words how are you ok with that i dont get it ok so i was in the National Security Council Working as an advisor to the chairman of the joint chiefs in the Obama Administration i saw how the Obama Administration conducted policy with regard to china and the chinese respects party into how the above is duration has conducted policy i know its not your question but what im telling you its a relevant what im looking at what are the policy implications generally in culpeper gradually did the critics in your own investigation say your own is irrelevant who you said i didnt force you to say this you said i. President whos on friends with the leaders of the communist party of china im telling you donald trump has said on 6 occasions in the last 2 years he is friends with he says quote we are in love with each other hes in love with a guy you cant stand and nearly every time he was brought a policy decision that was what i would say the last 4 president s would have made he went the other way particularly as it pertains to the Chinese Communist party now he may say whatever he wants but at the when the time came to make a decision about were we going to implement tariffs against china he made that decision against by the way the advice of a lot of people in his administration fair enough on tariffs let me ask you this do you mention policy one of the big policies i know youve been vocal on ive been vocal on many of been vocal on is the treatment of the week is in shin john province in china horrific mistreatment by the Chinese People talk about cultural genocide donald trump said openly in a recent interview that he dont want to do anything about that because he was trying to get a trade deal with his friend she didnt bring john bolton former National Security adviser says that dont trump not only told president xi jinping to his face that he was quote the greatest slight leader in chinese history but he also told the chinese present he was totally fine with them building mass detention camps for were muslims and were more than a 1000000 we get to believe to now be held thats an outrage isnt it. Thats the problem with the media theyre constantly looking at what the president says and the not what the administration is doing secretary pompei all works for the president he doesnt say the same things that the president says im not im not disputing that general and thats a very fair point you make about pompei a very fair im just asking youre telling me it doesnt matter that the president i did state told the leader of a country thats holding a 1000000 people in comes totally fine with me youre saying that has no impact no consequence i should even be all skewed but thats a problem with them im saying well what do matter is in what i focus on as opposed to the media is what are the policy responses going on generally if barack obama has said. Over and you know and i know it you would be rightly criticizing obama if i bought her and said guys i dont earn a cunt generosity 7 years in the military i dont care whos the president that the president the commander in chief i do what lets order but im telling you what i saw with my own eyes i dont care what policy imus said i dont think they did a follow the route is this summer they finally signed sanctions 4 years in what did he do i cant find a single quote or statement from trump criticizing china chinas mistreatment that we get over his 1st 4 years 3 years in office. I think what youre seeing is the evolution of a policy a change of a massive in the United States a massive change in Foreign Policy focused on democratic principles human rights civil liberty rule of law free trade that takes a long time to put into place the reason it takes a long time to put into place is because we have to get concurrence on a bilateral basis with allies and partners about our shared values and principles that we are going to push forward in the world and what has happened since the end of the cold war as it we have created this big system that no longer functions to promote those principles and values and if were going to actually do that its going to take a long time as you know a lot of americas allies would say its america that is let down the cause of democracy around the world donald trump who has called will dictate to us from egypt to russia to china you mentioned spreading democracy how does that how does that work in hong kong when the protests erupted in hong kong last summer trump said quote according to john boltons book i dont want to get involved he later publicly referred to them as riots echoing official Chinese Communist Party Propaganda i know you said general that hong kong is supposed to be independent but trump said last year at the height of the protest these protests are between hong kong and china because hong kong is a part of china and the Chinese Press praised him for saying it how does that make you feel. As a nation we said that the administration said that hong kong is no longer sufficiently autonomy thats a policy now as we move forward thats going to mean that was its not a seed to you know as i knows dummies who are the riots was not policy im confused what you define as policy when the president says these are all rely a policy of the United States thats not a policy is now and he just signed an executive order just recently and im asking about last year when they arent the problem kong is knows no longer sufficiently it autonomous so this is what im telling you is things are changing now ok but i thought to be honest to be quite frank is that right now where we stand today in terms of policy we wouldnt get to 2023 because of the how long it takes to get policy through the administration but what ive seen since a coronavirus is an acceleration of the implementation of policy not just in the United States but with alec partners and that really is reflected by the recent decision by the u. K. To ban huawei yes this is what im seeing so let me ask you where do you see this going general because you long held this view before donald trump did before the pandemic began that china is enemy number one of the west of the u. S. You even said that you wrote your book stealth war as a call to homes to alert people to chinese covert aggression to a chinese plan to dominate the world what is it that you want the rest of the world to do is it to fight back are you pushing for a military confrontation between the u. S. And china oh no absolutely not in fact you know that is i think is a work could be the worst outcome what i am saying is that free societies create 4 things innovation Talent Capital and technology and that that has flowed continuously for the last 3 decades to china rather than that it should flow to democratic societies so what im advocating for is a democratic a union of democratic societies and if china wants to have a union of authoritarian societies so be it isnt a risk. The strategy because economic war in a war of words can often escalate into a hot war you know that arent you worried about the consequences i actually believe that in this case the fact that china and the United States both have Nuclear Weapons is a deterrent to open conflict between the 2 i dont believe either leader would like to see the devastation that a full open war between the United States and china would exact on their respective populations so no i think the competition is going to continue to be economic in informational idea why dont know the whole issue away but i really dont and i do not advocate that it be military you dont advocate it fair enough im just wondering why you all so relaxed about it youll say all weve got nukes it wont happen as if India Pakistan havent almost gone to will they both have nukes let me just ask you this there on surveillance youre not just worried about the Chinese Government using tech to spy on americans you believe that they using their own citizenry to spy on the us and youve gone further than most in saying in your book that all chinese visitors to the us need to be monitored because they might end up being spies thats not just extremely real the whole style how would that even work every Chinese Student a businessman who turns up at the us gets their own what north korean style minder from the f. B. I. Or the cia how would that work. So 1st of all this is a big problem with understanding china the Chinese Communist Party Controls the police the borders the banks the military they control all the legitimate power within the society and access to capital they use that to motivate people to do things that they want them to do either through fear or understood by everyone 8000000 counties nationals visiting. A 2800000 they have a law that says every citizen every company has to collect intelligence on behalf of the nation i understand the argument what is your what is your claim solution to monitor 2800000 people who visited the u. S. Last year 350000 Chinese University students in the u. S. Have them followed around i dont get it now i would argue that they cant be here unless we have a different Chinese Communist party that doesnt have a law you want to buy me in a china from the u. S. I want to travel about you want to travel about on china to much the muslim out just to get some clarity its a quite stop proposal to say you want to the monitor them about you know what i said what i said is we need a strict vetting process and the things that Chinese People claim to be coming over for ought to be strictly looked at and yes we ought to have some idea of what theyre doing in the country given the fact that the Chinese Communist party mandates that they become an intelligence asset i mean it sounds like the other irony is that to try to defeat china you sound like you want the us to become more like china more authoritarian more bora more of a surveillance state let me just ask you this and you worried about the demonization of asians in america you said at the start of the show that you love china you love Chinese People theres been a record increase in attacks hate crimes against Asian Americans since the start of the pandemic incited by a president who talks about kung fu in his speech is none of that bothers you. Absolutely a bothers me of course it bothers me anytime theres a hate crime or theres racial bias thats terrible thats not america but thats not what im talking about im talented not born american is president says and their ability ok go to the counter but look you have just as it is who you praise in your book saying come fluent rallies and people of any shouting coming through in the street im also you to deal with rather than avoid them ok so so so again lets go back to what i said when you were condemning the Court Process youre not a republican restrict you to him daily use of the phrase kung fu its a very simple question i would consent damn any racist or any bias yes i condemn ok sure 11 last question before we finish form is unacceptable but what i what i what i also realize that whatever you say with regard to the president whether he has warts whether hes a perfect communicator what im focusing on what is the outcome of the policy decisions that have been made in this administration for the time that its been in office thats thats what i look at understood one last question before we finish isnt the real issue here not that youll both about china dominating the world but you worry that a rising China Threatens us dominance of the world thats the real issue that you dont like the idea of having to share the International Stage with another new superpower. Well 1st of all thats crazy on its face i would love it if india was dominating the world all i want to see is a nation that dominates the world to promote democratic principles rule of law human rights civil liberty free trade whats whatever nation does it it doesnt have to be the United States i recognize that for an order for my freedoms and our republic to stay intact to promote the kind of society i want to live in and i want my children and grandchildren to live in that were going to have to Work Together as democracies to promote that those kinds of institutions within the broader Global Community and a china that is all powerful that controls the means of production that controls the Global Information economy is not going to promote those kinds of principles well im not sure india is promoting human rights for its Muslim Minority but thats a conversation for another day general spaulding thank you so much for joining me on head to head thank you. Thats it for part one of the special had to head in part to all challenge kerry brown former british diplomat and director of the lao China Institute on why he believes the only way forward is to engage with china stay tuned well be back in a few minutes after the news headlines. Once welcome now fear. Dividing a nation. Aljazeera explores germanys long Term Economic strategy of pursuing immigrants from the arab world i feel more gentleman than syria. How much money does a receipt you get those people who dont think its been going on in german and american the new germans on aljazeera. Instigating the use and abuse of power across the globe on aljazeera. The. Hello im Maryam Namazie in london of a quick look at the headlines now the u. S. State department has called former top saudi intelligence officials a valued partner it comes a day after it was revealed father losses in washington accusing Saudi Crown Prince mohammed bin sound line of sending a hit squad to canada to try to kill him the state Department Says its concerned bille job raises allegations and says any persecution of his family members is unacceptable its also being reported that interpol rejected a request to extradite back to saudi arabia because they said it was politically motivated. It says that dr murray has been a valued partnered to the u. S. Government working closely with us to ensure the safety of americans and saudis it continues that the department of state is concerned about the alleged to use a lead to doctor out excel in canada any accusations of wrongdoing it says should be addressed through established legal troubles lebanese president michel aoun has dismissed calls for there to be an International Investigation into tuesdays devastating chemical explosion he says the bras could have been caused either by negligence or a missile attack 157 people have been killed so far and 5000 injured in the blast which ripped through the lebanese capital work is continuing to clear out the city and residents are saying theres little help from the state. At least 16 people have died after an air india flight skidded off the runway while landing 190 people won both the boeing 737 when it crashed a quiet day in kara carroll a state airport Officials Say the pilot couldnt see the runway katie because of heavy rain the jet split into 2 but it did not catch fire local media say dozens of passengers are injured the United States has imposed sanctions on hong kongs chief executive it says kerry lam is directly responsible for implementing a controversial Chinese National security law which he called of policy of suppression a range of other officials including the Territories Police chief of also been targeted the relationship between the u. S. And china already strained has been deteriorating recently of a hong kongs autonomy coronavirus and 2 executive orders against the apps to talk and we chat. Head to head continues now with mehdi hasan but ill be back with the news hour 2100 g. M. T. Thats in about 25 minutes time ill see you then. Welcome back to this special edition of head to head with not just one but 2 guests debating whether the west and china are entering a new cold war or whether the threat from beijing is being exaggerated in part one i spoke to former trump official general Robert Spalding who made his case for why he believes china should be treated as an enemy to democracies across the world now for the opposing view and that is in the 2nd half of the show ill challenge kerry brown a former senior british diplomat professor of chinese studies and best selling author argues that on the contrary the west needs china now more than ever it is impractical to say to a 5th of humanity you must go away its not going to happen it is a fantasy the chinese sultan who was among the 1st to sound the alarm on the coronavirus i think that from chinas alleged cover up of covert 19 the world is now suffering as a result of the malfeasance of the Chinese Government to accusations of unfair trade practices deals got to be fair dos it can be good to be able to claim the same rules as those other developed nations. And give the right to. Does the Chinese Government pose a undeniable threat both at home and abroad. And is it time for the west to take a tougher stance towards a new and growing global. Kerry brown thank you for joining me on the head to head and here my guest of part one retired u. S. General Robert Spaulding says the Chinese Communist party is 100 percent to blame for every single coronavirus death around the world do you agree with. No i mean its got some responsibility for sure but to say that its responsible for some of the mismanagement in europe in america and elsewhere seems to me to be shifting the blame from the people that should be taking it so i dont think its responsible for every death and its not really clear at the moment where the responsibility was in the beginning but what about the argument that chinas leaders knew about human to human transmission back in early january maybe even earlier but didnt share that with the rest of the world they allowed 5000000 people to leave hard to spread the virus that they destroyed initial samples of the virus and will harm one seeming coverup after another say the critics yeah so theres been a big discussion about whether local officials did respond as quickly as they could we have to bear in mind though that everyone has proof that this was a really really tough issue to deal with their own Prime Minister in britain today Boris Johnson said they didnt handle it well at the beginning because they didnt know what they were dealing with but that doesnt change the fact that the Chinese Government still have many questions to answer theyre not keen on answering those questions there are studies suggesting that if theyd acted a couple of weeks 23 weeks earlier they could have reduced the number of cases by 95 percent prevented the spread of it around the world we now have a Global Pandemic and the country where it started and is now the critics say engaging in a cover up well yeah i mean china has said that it will hold investigation it hasnt said when it will hold that but pressures already said that will hold the investigation it has suffered also from the pandemic it hasnt walked away from this you know easily i dont think that its kind of done this deliberately so i think that just casting this all on china and making it solely a big issue about china is as i said over exaggeration dr levy when liang a chinese doctor and tried to warn his colleagues about a new solves like virus in late december only to be investigated and detained by the police for quote making false comments he later died from the corona virus does anything better sum up the Chinese Communist. Parties alleged cruelty secrecy shift failure on this issue than the death of dr lee you know thats true and that is a very very bad case i mean i dont think anyone would try to defend the way that he was treated actually though i mean he was a party member he was a party member until the day he died and it was in a Whatsapp Group that he was discussing this issue so it was in a public discussion and the issue really was that the officials who were trying to handle this at the beginning panicked so i dont think again it was a deliberate act but it was certainly met badly managed badly handled you mention that china is open to an investigation has talked about looking into what happened what went wrong and yet when australia pushed for an independent investigation into the source and spread of the coronavirus beijing threatened a boycott of australian beef wine tourism and universities there were allegations of hacking against the australians is this really the behavior of a responsible global power that has nothing to hide what is the behavior of a power that has a political system that makes it quite isolated i mean its the only power really in the world significant power that runs on a one Party Communist system so it is somewhat paranoid and somewhat defensive there are plenty of things it does wrong but we have to remember you know that it was ok for australia for instance in the good years to be able to trade with china to export huge amounts of iron ore to china to basically last for the last 30 years without a significant recession because of the benefits it got from china and now of course its tone has changed and it wants a kind of much more brittle relationship youve talked a lot in the past about wanting people to be less confrontational and deal more in the terms of engagement rather than confrontation you want the west to be less aggressive toward china in recent months theres been clashes on the border between china and india and of course growing tensions between china and japan china and vietnam china and Malaysia China and indonesia china in the philippines why shouldnt western countries like the u. S. Side with its own. Allies in the region against an increasingly belligerent beijing where all of those powers that you mention from japan to india all have separate issues with china theyre not the same so if the United States and others come along and say they are siding with a group of powers theyre not the same issue theyre siding with does the u. S. Really have a very strong view on the disputed border between india and china probably not the u. S. Has a separate kind of set of issues than all of these powers and as a separate relationship for instance with japan which is a treaty ally of so these are not the same problem we shouldnt just dump them all together ok fair enough but what about the wider issue which is china seems to have a lot of problems with its neighbors off shore and who doesnt mean you know in Europe Countries have problems with their neighbors the question is to what extent others get involved in those issues i mean china wants its rightful place its the worlds 2nd biggest economy it feels that america comes right up to its borders so in a sense its not strange that the worlds 2nd biggest economy now wants more strategic space the question is how it has that space and whether others can cooperate with this or have constant tensions and fights with it its not always wrong i was not always right for sure but china is not always wrong you say who doesnt have problem with their neighbors china is coast guard rammed and sank a fishing boat in disputed waters off of vietnam in april chinese ships also in april harassed a malaysian drillship inside of malaysias own exclusive Economic Zone when was the last on the harbor between 2 European Countries you mention europe well indeed it doesnt because europe is now you know kind of no longer in that period but historically its been a place of pretty devastating wars we all know that china is a different stage i mean the fact of the matter is that in terms of real military conflict china has not been involved in a Significant International conflict since the korean war in 1950 so i mean you know we kind of remember we got to remember that the mysterious thing about this huge power chair. And it is although it kind of gets involved in these skirmishes as of today it has not become involved in an International Military conflict and there is a question about whether acting towards china in the way that many do may well precipitate that but i dont think its what china wants and thats a fair point the critics would say its not just military bullying by the Chinese Government in some way that the South China Sea but its economic bullying too especially against the west the National Basketball association in the u. S. The n. B. A. Last year had to issue a craven apology to the chinese when the general manager of the Houston Rockets merely tweeted his support for a democratic Hong Kong Hollywood has repeatedly edited out seems from blockbuster movies because they may offend china just recently the u. S. Attorney general bill barr accused big u. S. Corporations like apple cisco disney of bowing to beijing isnt it time many would say to take a stronger stand against Chinese Pressure chinese extortion of western corporations for a start with my arguably the baby basketball case proves that when china does behave like this its very counterproductive i mean if theres one thing thats going to irritate americans is being pushed around about issues like basketball so i dont think that worked and that i think is a good example of why sometimes chinas diplomacy is the best asset for its critics but i mean the boy basic issue is you know is china the 1st country in the history of the world to use its economy in order to get what it wants i mean thats precisely what everyone does countries abuse their economies for ever to get what they want whats unusual about that they have but if you take google for example which tried to create a bespoke censored Search Engine for china when the project came to light its own employees protested google was accused of pushing out its own human rights chief were talking about one of those powerful companies in the world undermining its own stated values its own senior staff in order to stay in good terms. China in order to do authoritarian things with china that is pretty unique well google has a choice for sure and google withdrew and now google is still an extremely Successful Company and china has its own version of baidu so i guess this is where the world is heading were going to end up with these kind of divisions the question is do those divisions have to be ones where there is constant clash an absolute you know people wanting to go for total victory or do we kind of actually just cooperate and have a world where this sort of died this kind of duality is the sort of new normal its a situation we live in i think google is a good example that can happen comes back again to beijing all they the ones looking for total victory take the example of hong kong you wrote last year quote hong kong needs to now have a period of calmness and predictability losing its global prominence would serve no ones interest least of all beijing and yet beijing having violently crackdown on protesters in hong kong recently imposed a new pretty draconian National Security law in hong kong many would say an escalation in the crisis in all gone that brings in all sorts of new criminal offenses gives the authorities their broad new powers to limit peoples freedoms they didnt have to do that but they did it whos the ones looking for total victory well i mean i think the hong kong example is a very very difficult one because the perpetual protests before corporate 19 impacted on everyone and there was shared responsibility for that for sure what the Chinese Government has done with this security law is surprising to everyone and its really really questionable whether it will succeed i mean the issue really is that for made china as a rising power the problem with it is not so much that wants to dominate the problem is that it often wants to keep out of issues which dont directly relate to it its not like the United States maybe not even like europeans in the past where they felt that there was a sort of global element to their power the problem with china is that it is only self interested that is a different issue to. Someone wants to dominate but even if we accept your point that it doesnt want to dominate and many would would argue against that at the very minimum it certainly doesnt want to abide by the rules that others abide by it wants to do what it wants to do no matter anyones objections take the National Security law to go 38 says it applies to people who arent permanent residents of hong kong and who live outside of hong kong any critic of china anywhere in the world could be arrested if they stepped foot on hong kong saw in the words of one prominent law professor this is china quote a similar thing extraterritorial jurisdiction over every person on the planet well i think the thinking behind that is that china has arrived at a situation a kind of world where most of the rules of International Engagement where devices written before it came on the scene and it feels now that it has at least the need for a voice in how these rules happen i dont think that china wants to rip up all of those rules in many areas it is willing to abide by the rules in many areas its willing to have a say over the rules china has come along and said well there are some things where were very happy to work with you and others where we want to go our own way we may have rank you or your criminal law that is a real person saying lahn it is a pretty unique and pretty aggressive move some i argue its kind of what you know kind of extra territorial you know sort of legislation does for other countries isnt it i mean i dont say its right but its not like china is the only one doing it i mean Anti Corruption laws from the United States apply to people in britain and elsewhere i mean these are things that everyone tries to do you know youre trying to get as you go up in law to a National Security law which involves preventing criticism of the Chinese Government. The problem with the legislation is drafted in this bill is it so vague that no one knows what it really means and we wont know that until its put into practice hold on we were no deliberates is going to be put into practice by authoritarian power and undemocratic power that has a long history of human rights abuses. Well but no real history of working outside its own borders so i mean were in the area of speculation i mean you may well be right people say this may well be right but i think its going to be a quite a sort of distant prospect that china is going to come and grab you know people in other territories i think this is clearly only meant for hong kong and its clearly to an address an issue in hong kong it may well not address that issue but i dont think we can over dramatize it you said theres no evidence of china working abroad theres plenty of evidence amassed both by journalist and human Rights Groups of the Chinese Government trying to target dissidents or dissidents families abroad you know that yeah i mean but those are people that says it still has claims on originally from china i mean im talking really about commentators people like you and me i think chinas got enough facts on its plate at the moment without trying to sort of antagonize groups that really it doesnt feel it has direct links to your british of course a former british diplomat the u. K. Has a special connection to hong kong former colonial power but youve also written that quote britain can claim no special political influence on this issue but doesnt britain have a special responsibility to speak out on behalf of the hong kong people given the u. K. Handed back hong kong to the chinese with the agreement that the civil rights the Political Freedoms of the people in hong kong would not be violated by beijing which of course they have been and continue to be well i mean the people of hong kong can speak for the interests of the people of hong kong and they are able to do so very powerfully and had over the last 2 or 3 years so i mean the idea of the u. K. Having this sort of great moral responsibility is one that i find maybe up to 997 it had when it really could do things it didnt really do a great deal and then of course it suddenly become very very vocal thats fine i mean that is a its not that im criticizing i mean the u. K. Government the designed and it reminded of Chinese Government in the 1980 s. As you know which set down the rules for how hong kong would be administered after it was handed back the chinese govern. Violating those rules it seems like in front of the world the British Government shouldnt say or do anything shouldnt say hold on we had an agreement in 1804 sign no brit sign no british you know kind of agreement its like 2 or 3 pages long it is very very broad and general the basic law is to defacto constitution of hong kong and that also is pretty broad and that also has very gleg with your response you see if you say with a look at the last which are not rights and freedoms including those of the person of speech of the press of assembly well be ensured by law weve seen that in front of our eyes last year the rights of assembly and freedom of speech and not being protected in hong kong so i ask again should the British Government not say anything and you know they should i absolutely agree they should the question is whether its effective but they should they definitely should how should they be effective youre a former british diplomat if youre advising the Prime Minister of the u. K. Today how would you tell him to be effective in securing the rights of the people of hong kong which was supposed to be secured in the 184 agreement well is that our job i mean is it britains you know i mean is it not you just said a moment ago it is our job it doesnt use that leak out now youre saying it is it our job its ok to speak out but you cant guarantee to speak out is not to guarantee the rights of others is just to speak out about your opinion of those rights we have the right to an opinion but whether we can you know kind of give ourselves these grand why our idea that we can guarantee the rights of others i dont think thats what we can do lets pursue that line of argument an even bigger human rights issue than Hong Kong China is it your bog standard run of the mill human rights abuse or right now many critics would argue its in a league of its own a near genocidal league of its own at least a 1000000 we good muslims in province have been locked up in mass detention camps where theyve been tortured brainwashed forced to sing songs praising president xi jinping of the communist party there have been very recent reports of we get women being forcibly sterilized forced to have abortions as part of a Chinese Government attempt to slash the muslim birthrate that is the rest of the dead. The credit world kerry brown is the west which said never again after the holocaust is supposed to just turn a blind eye to what looked like massive crimes against humanity in the province once again it hasnt leaders from donald trump 2 others have spoken out about this the European Union has issued statements on it i mean its deeply concerning but its about being effective the issue really is that whether we like it or not the Chinese Government feels it has a security issue it is not to use the right policy response to that but it cant be dismissed by saying it has no kind of Security Problems of its own we have to focus on detail and facts are we have are our you all one of the worlds leading to see all of the china are you telling me with a straight face that you believe the imprisonment of hundreds of thousands of people is linked to any genuine security issue come on im saying with a straight face that when i go to china and talk to people and talk to people about this issue they seem totally convinced there is a security problem i mean it seems to me a terribly self harming thing what theyve done if there is no issue theyve created one if there is no issue theyve created one when you say they seem convinced that they have an issue we know from leaked documents we know from the testimony of people in the camps that this has this of very little to do with security when it comes to for example banning we go muslims from having the name mohammed or banning Muslim Children in changing from entering mosques the birth rate issue etc this is this is what is being called cultural genocide and genocide tends to have nothing to do with security its to do with an ideology of dehumanization of hatred of marginalization i think 22 countries including japan in july of 29000 signed an open letter to the un high commissioner for human rights demanding china end its quote mass arbitrary detentions and called on beijing to allow u. N. Experts into sion joining is there anything in that letter you disagreed with should they not have written that letter now i mean it is an appalling situation in singe and let me say that absolutely categorically it is an importing situation but let me also that the one. Had the most power and ability to speak about this saudi arabia countries in the middle east with their fellow muslims in she in china have said nothing so i would be interested to know what powers like saudi arabia and others in the middle east are intending to do because if they spoke it would be very very much more powerful than europe which is always being dismissed in china because its always saying these things and thats a very very powerful argument and very accurate muslim majority countries are manifestly failed to speak out on this issue but its not partly because of what you said at the start of the show which is china is a rising power its the 2nd biggest economy in the world those countries pakistan for example is totally dependent on chinese 8 therefore feels it cant say anything so surely other countries who arent so dependent on chinese money the European Union members for example surely they should speak more loudly. Sure everyone should speak but i go back to my argument just now that the ones that have the most power to speak about this muslim countries in the middle east have so far been absolutely silent and theres no argument from me on that im asking specific about what you do know you say its only speech lets talk about actions the United States government for example just recently brought in a bunch of targeted sanctions against the Chinese Communist Party Official with direct ties to whats going on in shin jag is that something you oppose is that something you think is unnecessary on cold i mean its something that people can do whether you have any effectiveness or not who knows but i mean this is what i dont get larry of what devoting my question today youve said i dont know if itll work i dont know if itll be effective you tell us whats affective and youre saying its appalling and what would you do Prime Minister or president kerry brown what would you be doing to prevent genocide inch enjoying what another politician im here to try and explain my issue is there is the fact of china the fact that there is this huge country with a 5th of the worlds population a 5th the worlds g. D. P. And we have to accept that and then when we accept it we can decide what things we do about different aspects of chinas behavior now on the issue of. I guess that its a security context that we have to understand why china is acting the way it is and not completely dismiss its security concerns so we have to look at the context so you said youre not here to be a politician im asking you as an expert as someone who understands that we dont need to explain explain to me what can be done are you saying nothing can be done to prevent the mass detention of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people into india i suspect what can be done is to engage with a very very serious policy debate with china to show that our experience what is britain else has a policy dealing with just like this have not the policy debate is that china feels that it is dealing with Security Issues by putting a 1000000 people into these camps which is actually creating the very problem that they feel its meant to be dealing with its radicalizing people thats inconsistent when you use that language in china you actually get people to listen to you in recent months kerry brown what many see as chinas belligerence abroad seems to have backfired and you conceded this earlier you now have the u. K. Joining with the United States to blacklist weiwei the chinese telecoms giant which was about to help build britains 5 g. Network india banning 59 chinese mobile apps including tick tock is the tide finally turning against beijing and isnt beijing to blame for that well i think whats happening is the world is dividing thats true whether thats a good thing or not the world is dividing we have a china centric world and then a world which is not china centric and while were kind of exemplifies that it does very little in europe in america but it does lots in latin america in africa thats the fact that what we see is a world which is dividing and that is worrying to hear you say that let me ask you this one last question i get that you want to engage with china avoid division avoid conflict and thats an admirable goal but at what point does engagement with a country like china with a government like the Chinese Communist partys become appeasement well if things are framed in the way that things have been framed today were talking about you know the big big problematic issue. Hughes well for sure its very hard but thats like focusing on just one side of a photo one side of a picture what weve got to remember is also massive issues where china does work with the world on Climate Change for instance its also contributed hugely in terms of development in 3rd countries you know this is not something thats negligible there is lots of benefit that china still brings it has massive problems no one would deny that i wouldnt deny that but it also isnt a wholly kind of dark picture there are many many things to which we can see benefit and i think that thats what we need a balanced nuanced view not a constant striving for drama and division on that note kerry brown well have to leave it there thank you for joining me on head to head thank you very much and thats it for this special edition on this special series of head to head thank you for watching. Hello there is a big winter storm system which is very obvious satellite picture drifting across the southeast of australia now is actually a cold front is wrapping around on itself so it doesnt produce colder air there will be snow down the mountains of victoria for example for the most his rain is an onshore breeze is not very pleasant weather in New South Wales or eastern victoria or a. C. T. A. Or killed around back into was adelaide as well and then the slow moving incoming rain for perth and that whole saga west and Western Australia but maybe the people just around the coast of sydney we worrying once again as the wind gets up and therefore the ways get up remember those pictures of an eroding beach. Thats sydneys forecast isnt cold but it is showery and probably windy about how we get to monday representing that developing low off the coast rain is a problem still in the Korean Peninsula south korea particular around the capital has seen the mighty river han lose leave leave its banks and cause some flooding theres more rain to come throughout south korea to some degree passage of pan and in china but i think well see really the major problems continue in south korea. On counting the cost russia says warplanes and mistress the scenes from folded libyas Biggest Oil Field last lebanons take a look around us its a devastating explosion is it falling from awful fun glass weaponize in place a system for motion to manipulate elections. Counting the costs of aljazeera history has called it the great war in the 1st episode conscription draws hundreds of thousands of our route troops into both sides of the conflict their story is rarely toward but had a huge impact on the course of the war world war through our robot minds own knowledge is even. 0. Hello im. Watching the news hour live from london coming up in the next 60 minutes the u. S. State department calls a former saudi intelligence official a valued partner saying its concerned by allegations the Saudi Crown Prince sent its men to try to kill him. Anger is growing off the explosion in beirut residents blame corruption and mismanagement president says hes not ruling out a missile attack. In a india plane skids off the runway after landing in kara at least 16 people have been killed and hong kong chief executive carrier and 10 of the chinese officials a sanctioned by the u. S. Over a controversial security law. Are me running through this for students on the not the Champions League to be 5 months to go on in formula one a familiar and familiar story for world champion. He sets the place for the 70th anniversary groom for a silver star. The u. S. State department has called former top saudi intelligence officials sadal jobbery a valued partner it comes a day after it was revealed filed a lawsuit in washington accusing Saudi Crown Prince mohammed bin sell none of sending a hit squad to canada to try to kill him the state Department Says its concerned by algebras allegations and any persecution of his family members is unacceptable its also being reported that interpol rejected a request to extradite back to saudi arabia because they said it was politically motivated well the u. S. State department comments were made in a letter to democratic senator Patrick Leahy who had requested a formal update on the case in. The letter the department praises dr algebras work with the u. S. Embassy in riyadh describing him as someone who responded around the clock to threats against u. S. Interests in the kingdom it goes on to add the department of state is concerned by the alleged activities that led to brees exile in canada the state department is calling for the Immediate Release of children saying in the letter that it had repeatedly requested the Saudi Arabian government to clarify the status and nature of the algebra childrens detentions well for more on this lets speak to mike hanna hes in washington so that is the letter from
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.