Wipes out a decade of Economic Growth plus pakistans asias best performing stock markets counting the cost. Youll. See. On the previous episode of talk to al jazeera. I hope the afghans are paying attention learning the lesson of that period were in the ever learned of the us. And thats why weve started the Peace Process a lot of that state were watching them were going to monitor these negotiations and well help with that help when needed but ultimately now were in a different phase and wish the afghans of in the end in the sea they cant blame the United States they cant blame other. After nearly 2 decades of conflict the warring sides in of are finally talking to each other here in the capital there have been more than 400. 00 attacks since the deal was signed between the us and Taliban Forces and thousands of afghans have been killed back in afghanistan although there is hope being shown by both sides here but a trust deficit and wide ranging disagreements between them still exist on this episode we talk to the man representing the Afghan Government at the negotiating table the chairman of the high council for National Reconciliation talks to al jazeera. Chairman High Peace Council for National Reconciliation thank you very much for talking with us here. After the longest running u. S. War 2 decades of conflict a lot of fun will be left for of guns to sort out you call it a historic occasion as it. I dont think that that would really like you to lift completely for the afghans to solve it but at the same time the negotiations has to be. Afghan led to an afghan owned. I wouldnt think that the whole world will disengage itself from afghanistan. Will continue but it might have it may take different shape in a peaceful afghanistan and you might see more Foreign Investment board developmental activities and more opportunities for us and also for a region. Yes i mean country trying to impose its own way or system or whether any other nation that that has not proved successful if thats the meaning of were leaving afghanistan for the south we are were fine with that we need to we need to find their way in create a system that we can leave we can live in peace within and without you talking to the taliban now. Added added situation where it has been one of the bloodiest years in the 20 is nearly 20 years of conflict. The taliban are making advances to europe and tested hometown of been shared in the last few days what gives you hope that this time around it is going to be different this time around you are going to be able to convince them and they are going to be able to convince you. If there is one listen out of the recent history of afghanistan recent past 2 for dickys thats that the did is no military solution and our hope is that both sides have recognized this and then what to do is the next issue you referred to to shade valley in an incident a few days ago that was. Pressure bowed to some other provinces in one of those crossing point one incident had taken place no casualties from any sides some reason balik a mess like sending us that the right message to send that this is stage will be that we want we have different views we have a different vision for the country but we want to make peace with one and that in order to help our own people that will be direct message our hope is of the will of the Afghan People and the desire of the people in also on the on the wisdom of the leaders on all sides that to look at the situation can we continue in how long for example in the past there was a situation where the taliban were in control of the 2 percent of the site it to 5 percent of the store. Did that that situation put in into 2 world in late 2 to one side overcoming india theres wiped out no. Post that situation the world continued for that 20 s. So these are these are the lessons. Learned from the recent history of afghanistan and also look at the suffering of the people look at the losses of the people look at the pay. When the people of. Tolerating referred to the numbers in the past few months only since the signing of the agreement reached between the taliban in the United States which was. Which was the main fundamental reason. That the 2 cabinet situation that we were talking to one at that that is still there when i am talking about the number of casualties its high on both sides its not just one side in. 2 to q the wounds of the people to recover will be sign of strength not inflicting casualties on the people ill go to the u. S. Agreement in a minute but for people who havent watched the afghan conflict closely for the last 2 decades describe to us the significance of a former foreign minister then the Vice President sitting face to face with the cofounder of the Afghan Taliban what does this mean for afghanistan and the Afghan People it means that we have. In a different a stage in our history. It means that hopefully god willing. History will be made in a chapter in the history is about to thats the thats the significance of that. In this this moment what is the future of afghanistan is it an emirate is it a public. Diffusion of afghanistan will be the one the one which which can sustain itself which can lead to to do real peace and stability will do will depend on the will of the people on the right of to citizens to participate to boot into troops where you are the strongest sides representing those people so it kind of narrows down to your decisions that you make on these negotiating tables right. I mean both sides at least to come to a shared point of view in also had to agree that this is this is the real forward thats the key thats the crux of the matter as the equality that both sides should see the need and also should should come to a realisation that we should put people 1st and we are in a situation that we cannot cannot ignore the will of the people so which one. But which one puts people 1st is it the emirate or is it the republic it can be both. The way that i dont want to put the 2 to sort of the side for the negotiating team which is not just the public of on a sub representatives of them but also that are presented to the Taliban Movement but the main thing is that the will of the people should be should be exercised in a freeway one percent vote is important then. To follow to come to terms with names will not be will not be will not be difficult. People focus on the differences between you and the taliban and i want to focus on the opposite here the afghan constitution for instance says that there can be no legislation which would go against islam. The power structure of the Islamic Republic of ghana stand gives power to the president he can hire fire move and do things that will which is kind of very similar to what the taliban want on the basis of it if you look at oversimple of looked look to it as an oversimplified view how difficult would it be for you to change the constitution of his son. To change the constitution of persecution of afghanistan there are provisions in the constitution itself the issue is that. The Current Issues are also for is for the design for the interest of the country to try to get dippy people to get that in the country to get us in a unified man so i mean mentor for closer to shame is not possible what about the Security Forces what happens to the any what happens to the taliban fighters because there has been so much blood that has been shared between these 2 sides the highest number of casualties in afghanistan have been afghan Security Forces. How do you get them to reconcile the country Needs National institutions. National Army National police or any other Security Sector if the country needs that. And then we are in a situation that we have Afghan National army in the taliban combatants how to train to create how to how to how to get to Security Sector reform in also addressing in practical way in manner the actual realities which exist in their country these are of the painstaking. Hard to work which is ahead of blue teens to whats the blueprint here the blueprint if they see if they give you a blueprint today and then tomorrow taliban will say that no this is not us it doesnt work in negotiations the blueprint has to be decided between both sides. The easiest way the one which gets us with this complication should we should be choosing in there should be conditions or preconditions a sect i spoke to the taliban before coming into the room and they i asked them where there is what are the sides what are the lines that they have drawn and you talked about humanitarian truce and a cease fire for at least for the time being so that there can be access for humanitarian purposes but the talibans insistence is that according to the agreement that theyve signed with the u. S. There needs to be a governing body which the taliban are either a part of or agree upon and after that there could be a ceasefire so its kind of a catch 22. 00 isnt it which comes 1st. Dangers of their country should come 1st which one is it the interests of the countries in. Reducing their violence to a very significant level and also getting to 2 to a cease fire because. When i talk about the number of casualties its not just in one site its in both sides and its unfortunate and its a burden on the next generations i remember during the resistance or jihad against the soviets which i was a part of that later trauma suit when when when when there will be prisoners taken in to the majority and be very angry because they would have given casualties will your friends. Martyred because of those fightings from the from the other side which you were calling the enemies and there was a tendency of makes mujahedeen that take revenge that Amanda Masood was saying that look. The their families to take care of it they have this in the long in the war has gone for so many years if you leave that so many victims in casualties. This countrys resources will not be sufficient to address all these needs of these challenges that we are adding on top of the challenges that the country or d. T. Has but you cant but you cant simply just look away from so much killing that has happened and especially in the part of that world where there is a very tribal system and revenge does exist for generations is there going to be a truth and Reconciliation Commission how are you going to resolve these but very real issues the amount that the afghans have taken in their history including this recent history there was no sense of revenge duels for members of the former regime of very high wealth or a t s a mans there was just poured and it wasnt like the people who were dressed there were less than. A handful less than perhaps 2 or 3 cases where people were assessed and was taken on a personal basis just of them were part of the society we had hundreds of thousands of members of the communist regime that nobody took to avenge against them so that is also something that that we can we can we can defer to. You know to to you know to to see the future more clearly with more clarity your country hosts have said there cant be victors are vanquished pompei or said that this will only move forward but there are sacrifices and all sides are willing to make sacrifices for your sacrifices what are you willing to give before getting to the future what needs to be there the fact that. 5000 prisoners have been released. From the list the taliban have provided with a lot of opposition from your government with a lot of opposition from the people as well at the beginning but but you know the government with that at the race it wouldnt have happened the deal was between the United States and the taliban but the United States has been indeed part of afghanistan throughout it is still supporting afghanistan in continued support of honesty in the leaders are saying that theyre kemet it to support peaceful afghanistan post the situation. And there are pretty heavy files attached to those prisoners which are being released this was a hard decision this is an example. Things that needs to needs to be done will be there as a result of negotiations do will be back in for their only ideas taliban will present their own agendas we will we will we do but as you does should lead us towards peaceful settlement so the this is a good example this is this was a very big decision that was even before the cease fire or significant reduction in violence so. Pieces of parity and without it will not come with without the cost. In all sorts. The. Cost on the people because of the continuation of the war debate it will be in. Its only in that sort of situation that both sides could claim to be victors i myself mentioned today that there is no winner in the war and there is no loser. In truce of peaceful settlement but youre talking about negotiating with a partner they are now under your negotiations partner the taliban does not recognize the Afghan Government it says it is a partner among many of the stakeholders of gonna stand it insists that it is going to make sure that its version of sharia law is in implemented it insists that what it has agreed upon with the u. S. As the u. S. Force you have gone government to implement should be implemented so yes this will be music to the years of your Partners International partners but do you not think that this will embolden the taliban into making sure that their demands are met one way or the other to to think. That. To to to use the maximalist methods and tactics and think that that will get anybody any. Thing significant in terms of really legitimate interest based on the legitimate business and the broader interests of their country that would be a miscalculation to think that inflicts enough. Inflicting casualties upon the people will give you the upper hand if it is asked if it is and the other side that will be a big miscalculation. Good is an opportunity were getting to get a lot happened in the past 30 years. Nearly 30 years since the taliban have emerged that both sides while they are no risk of not recognizing as all we do and doing to measure them as this law make immediate but as they need to get to get there to sit together to to present our views which are different from one another but to find the ways how to reconcile those differences how to find ways to be able to live together well maintaining some differences and fighting for it politically rather than through through violence thats the the listen learn from any conflict show me or conflict that you continue the war in the war through the war without without bringing in bringing it to an end true true true. Acceptable to to to the sides but youre on a on a ticking clock right now because the United States has given 14 months to before it withdraws there is a us election coming up but theres a lot of pressure from various actors who have influence in afghanistan so does that not may repeat that question does that not embolden the taliban and make your situation good we did could be situation where groups amongst the taliban may think that it is in there it is in their interest to to continue paschal show to talk and also to continue with the fighting but. I hope. To a certain extent i can assume that there are other people which are thinking much more mature really in that sense based on the experience of them bizarre not. Common experience that this is not the way forward the way forward the real. Interest of them asin ill tell you that afghanistan will rely on that on our ability to put them in to do to disrupt what is the timeframe that youre working on the. Referred to the us elections in the circumstances in the fact that the United States also looking at it with urgency its its. Its a bonus its a plus but i dont see that need more urgent need they need they need of the Afghan People. These people who live in the ears which are the taliban control they live in the areas which is the control of the the government of afghanistan and their. Hopes and desires or are the same. You cannot differentiate between the people decided to hold that site for us the most rigid the ticking clock is the is the continuation of the suffering of our people which has continued for so for so long on top of that we cannot ignore the conditions around this as well but. To be a miscalculation to turn it into into into a failure will be will be taking. Responsibility before the people which will be judged by the history very quickly i want you to also touch upon corruption we know that in the last 20 years warlords have become more powerful we hear the cigar reports really talk about 4 provinces where 70 percent of the Security Forces were ghost employees we talk about endemic corruption in institutions we also remember you taking in ended rival inauguration of president of president ship which had to be resolved by International Partners again so how are you going to make sure that the force that is in front of the taliban is a coherent united front without all of these differences which a lot of guns face on a day to day basis its important. A unified. Slummy public will be in a match better position to negotiate. New much needed to new position to negotiate does not mean to take its feet. Illogically and without without any any logical basis but to present at the in also to represent the views of the majority of the people. Did our challenges of corruption which i have no doubt in my mind we dont have enough time to to to take the history of the past 20 years the mistakes that bass as africans in there your government told outside the government door and opposition all the mistakes made by partners in that in that sense but we are where we are today and the need of the days too to look at it differently. That in tune with the relying on the false hope that if such a thing happens then we will have the operad then didnt do would kill and wipe out the other side. We should avoid that that that that line it sounds very sort of idealistic but i see no other way around the continuation of the war and suffering in lists in this way will not put anybody in a dignified position in this not a service through to the people. Im sure amongst the taliban leadership there are people who are thinking about it who have seen it gone through it for so many years and more than that they look at the people in the expectations of the people from all of us finally then what does dr Abdullah Abdullah get out of this man your great great great grandchildren look back at this moment how do you want to be remembered by them. If this leads to do the dignified. Sustainable peace. Deal there wouldnt be a bigger award for the person the way in also as a legacy should materialize that. Will be the big story wanted to take and imagine if i was. In between small. Or big a fact. That thats the had it dropped. Chairman High Peace Council for National Reconciliation thank you very much for talking to others that you are. Examining the headlines that said to me business around and watch it on the news and i think you can find unflinching journalism how relevant is the debate here in this day and age how. The protest movement observes they are waking over the nation sharing personal stories with a global audience. Explore an abundance of world class programming the world is watching on aljazeera. Aljazeera goods beneath the waves with a team of women determined to save the job friends we all share the same responsibility needed something for a project amazing using a variety of scientific techniques to study their behavior we can monitor them for their photos and behavior were able to adapt to their new environment women make science dolphin sanctuary on aljazeera. Coveted beyond. Taken without hesitation fortune died for our cause our defines our laws as little babies were toilet i did it look. Its look like the babies today people in power investigates exposes and question whats the use and abuse of around the. Amount you see. Trailblazing u. S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died at the age of 87. Hello im come all santamaria here in doha with the world news from aljazeera President Trump and the Republican Controlled Senate are now expected to fast track a replacement for ginsburg as they try to expand the top courts conservative majority but democratic president ial contender joe biden says whoever is elected in november should be the one picking the Supreme Court nominee and another news protests against the president in peru but opposition lawmakers failed to win enough votes to impeach him for moral incapacity. But everyone u. S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died at the age of 87 she had been battling pancreatic cancer ginsburg a pioneer and champion of womens rights she was the leader of the courts liberal wing she served there for 27 years and was actually any. Second woman appointed to americas highest legal body and so people have gathered outside the Supreme Court in washington to mark ho passing while both President Trump and democratic nominee joe biden of made statements expressing this sadness however her death does give President Trump a chance to expand the Supreme Courts conservative majority remember the president ial vote just over 6 weeks away
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