Transcripts For ALJAZ Counting The Cost 20240712

International federation of the red cross in my present societies and was in izmir when the quake hit i was at home with my family and it was a very big earthquake i experienced some earthquakes in my life before as a person living in truth you naturally but i think to say this was the biggest earthquake that ive ever seen and the couldnt go out until it ended and it lasted. Almost 4 or 3 seconds i can say and we waited for it and then we could go out and then the vent out everyone was crying everyone was very shocked. Well in our other headlines vigils have been held in memory of 3 People Killed in yesterdays knife attack in Southern France security has been heightened with mall soldiers deployed across the country after that attack at the knot today basilica in nice a 21 year old tunisian migrant is being held the interior minister has now said france is in a war against islamist ideology. 4 days to go before the u. S. President ial election and more people have voted early in texas than voted at all in this state in 2016 voted republican for more than 40 years but polls suggest a shock democrat gain could be on the cards meanwhile President Trump and joe biden are focusing their campaigning on the american midwest im one of those stories bring you off to talks with mediate is in geneva on media and azerbaijan of agreed not to deliberately target civilian populations but they have failed to end their conflict it comes as both sides make advances towards key locations in the battle for control of the disputed territory of new corney carbonic. Counting the cost is coming up next thats it for myself and the team here in london there will be 1. 00 in about half an hours time. The economic hard to beat of a thriving brazil. But boom times mean rising rents and the lack of public housing. Is just one of thousands looking for a place to call. With no choice but to occupy one of the citys many vacant buildings facing uncertain future. You find a latin American Occupying brazil on aljazeera. Hello im daryn jordan this is counting the cost on aljazeera your look at the world of business and economics this week accusations of being an 800000000000. 00 super spread a hate this information on lies is it time to break up facebook for killing off the competition. The rise and fall of the middle class the pandemic destroys 2 decades of Poverty Reduction but this time its urbanites have been hit the hardest we find out why. The last oil and gas from namibia is selling off licenses to the Worlds Biggest Oil companies but environmentalists are concerned that fracking for shale could destroy elephant habitats and water supply. Now 70000000000. 00 in revenue 1800000000. 00 active users and worth more than 800000000000. 00 facebook must be doing something right in catering for the worlds desire to connect but theres a darker side to Mark Zuckerberg social Media Company some say the platform has pushed Holocaust Denial genocide and its a super spreader of false hopes and its accused of being a home to anti vaccine is political conspiracies and disinflation so just how did it get so big well it crushed the competition through acquisitions copycat products im struggling news content providers. Well the only time its been held to account was for the misuse of data by cambridge analytical which also worked on President Trumps 2016 president ial campaign during that time the network was used to spread misinformation facebook was fined 5000000000. 00 a slap on the wrist for such a huge company but it may be hit with another antitrust lawsuit possibly in november thats according to the Washington Post and a Biden Victory could see the social Media Company being broken up facebook along with the likes of google and amazon have been forewarned by the democrats that theyre abusing their market positions facebook has been accused of being a monopoly and pretty much competing against itself after the 2012 acquisition of instagram and the company has been accused of tinkering with its algorithms to give more prominence to right wing sites zuckerberg has even courted right wing commentators and regulators talks to trumps son in law jared cushion a face book was used to promote genocide in me and mob and its India Operations have been accused of allowing right wing politicians to spread hate all to curry favor with Prime Minister Narendra Modis ruling party and lets not forget the site was used to broadcast live the murder of scores of muslim worshippers in 2 new Zealand Mosques so far only google has been hit by a us lawsuit for anti competitive behavior the case focuses on payment it gives to phone makers to make sure its Search Engine is the preferred choice the European Union has successfully sued google for abusing its power on android phones favoring its own products in search results and stopping websites from using rival ads sellers only know bruegel has paid more than 9000000000. 00 in fines to the e. U. So theres lots to discuss here joining me now from st gallon in switzerland is miriam by 10 miriam is assistant professor of law and economics at the st gallon university miriam great to have you on the program. So how likely is it then the breakup of facebook and other Big Tech Companies well the digital chief of the European Commission said yesterday to be cautious with this instrument because we would have very lengthy Legal Proceedings but one question also is what would breaking up big tech achieve for consumers an important thing to understand about these platforms is that their networks and so they become more valuable as more users join them and that means that already big platforms tend to become bigger and we have to ask ourselves if we were to break up a company like facebook if the result would simply be that the process repeats itself and we end up with one Big Social Network once again yet its interesting miriam that the e. U. Has been more successful than the u. S. In taking on Companies Like Google Facebook microsoft what do you think is behind the success doing that well the e. U. Seems to have been more active in the past couple of years in this area with investigations into google and apple and facebook and germany as well i do think that the u. S. Is catching up now i think theres just more willingness now in the u. S. Politically and maybe just among people to do something and to rein in the power of big tech so how would you then go about limiting the power of facebook would you split off Instagram Split off wats up. Well as i said splitting the software breaking them up we have to see if thats going to be the solution with facebook and whatsapp one of the main concerns for consumers in the end is the data that are being collected about them and so and i trust has some instruments that we can use to do something about that big dominant platforms are not allowed to abuse their dominant position but i think well need instruments outside antitrust as well will need privacy laws Data Protection laws to stop companies from collecting too many too much data about us and from using the data in ways that we are we dont agree with and thats an interesting point you make miriam because in the old days competition rules came down to price but now as you say its all about personal data so where do we start with putting a value on data as a commodity and limiting Companies Like google and facebook to our personal data. Thats a very difficult question indeed a lot of people have been writing and thinking about this how do we value this data for and i trust authorities its difficult to say well this is too much Data Collection and for consumers its difficult to know is this too much will well see a prize that gets higher but we dont always know what data are collected about us and so again i think thats a problem that not only and i trust and the authorities can solve but well have to look at other ways well have to strengthen Data Protection authorities. Make sure that theyre funded well that they have the resources to enforce rules and Data Protection like in the e. U. We have the general Data Protection regulation that make sure that companies are limited in what they can do with their data i personally think thats a more fruitful way forward then trying to value the data for say but in enter trust well need to have a look at the value of data in other areas such as Merger Control we might want to look at acquisitions when companies have a lot of data even if they might not be making a lot of profit yet so how do we then miriam good about improving competition i mean some of the Big Tech Companies seem to just copy whats out there i mean even facebook has attempted to make its own version of ticktock. Well i think there are several instruments one in competition law is that we might want to strengthen Merger Control and so that means tougher standards maybe we want merging parties to prove to us that an acquisition is beneficial. Other than breaking up big tac we might want to have a look at all the companies that Big Tech Companies have been acquiring in the last couple of years but we might need to look outside of competition law as well and look at regulation as i said Data Protection regulation but maybe other types of regulation as well for the behavior of these Tech Companies so lets get a final thought from you miriam i mean if any country is going to implement the breakup of these Big Tech Companies it has to be the United States mean we all remember when they forced microsoft to unbundle Internet Explorer from its windows package and ironically that opened up the way for googles browser absolutely well so thats something that i think the u. S. Is looking into now and their investigation into google its a bit similar to what the European Commission did in 2018 essentially looking at tying and bundling saying well youre a dominant company and so you cannot use your market power in one market to try and gain market power in another markets well see if they can stop google from for example making Google Chrome the standard browser on lots of lots of phones i think that would be one way to start for sure room by great to get your thoughts thank you for talking to counting the cost thank you thank you. Now the last 2 decades have seen a remarkable reduction in global poverty but that is all about to be undone by the coronavirus pandemic those falling back into poverty are not the people youd most likely associate with being poll the World Bank Says the new poor are relatively well educated living in cities and towns and in middle Income Countries so where are those middle Income Countries well there in south asia and Subsaharan Africa the pandemic will push up to 115000000. 00 people into extreme poverty this year which the bank defines as living on less than 1. 90 a day so what can be done to help the new poor and reverse the rise in poverty well to answer that and more lets talk to karen in a sanchez part of oh she joins us via skype from washington d. C. Where she is the world banks director of the poverty equity global practice counting a great to have you on the program so what exactly is pushing the middle classes back into poverty do you think what the emerging evidence about the impacts of coverage 19 and the associated Economic Crises on household does us is that these impacts are significant theyre failed broadly and there might be and i seem very fast our projections suggest a bag of 1000 will push between 88 and a 115000000 people into extreme poverty these year and that number could go up to 150000000 in 2021 and these new poor mostly will reside in middle Income Countries and look a little bit different from the existing poor meaning those that were poor before the crisis in the sense that they are relatively more her than their relatively more educated they didnt to work in the Informal Service and construction sector they are not however coming from the middle class and instead we see these groups who was are the most affected what we call be economically in secure and some to. Yes by the middle class im saying some of these countries so whats so whats in a way out driving this as you were asking is really a combination of 2 scenes very significant declines in labor incomes due to job losses which cuts across the board in many countries and 2nd a reduction in not only. Particularly remittances from domestic an International Migrants tell you let me jump in there and ask you was was lock down the right thing to do them for these low and middle Income Countries i think when we think about these we need to remember that this issues were remey at a time where very little was known about the virus and governments had to take policy actions and make policy choices under conceivable and certainty and and even though we do know more now about the short term impacts of covering 1800. 00 crises theres still a lot that we dont know about the potential long term impact or the nature and shape of the record so in that context our focus has been in some poor dean governments efforts are as theyve tried to under 100 protect lives and on the own hand do you know support life he has protect those life so it so let me jump in here kelly but i mean do you think then there was an alternative to the lockdown i mean was there any way to have kept these economies going i think its i mean frankly i think it as i said it is very hard to tap i think he inside we can all have to hypothesize about you know things that could have been done differently but i think we need to focus on the fact that in many places even in the context of lockdown significant efforts were made do as i said protect life on the one hand through you know a Health Response and at the same time protect life and what which was one of the main concerns that we had particularly for the poor under ponderable and it is worth pointing out i mean this ends a 20 year decline in Poverty Reduction but what was behind that with the auction do you think youre right that you know the last few days. Have been witness to unprecedented progress in extreme Poverty Reduction with the Global Extreme poverty rate falling from 35 percent in 1992 under 10 percent earlier these year and even though the experience of countries you know is different i think there are 3 factors that we can really play into in understanding these these very positive trend that we saw 1st Economic Growth if you will to a large extent by an increase in International Trade was critical good generate new Economic Opportunities 2nd investments in Human Capital you know health and education and a rapid increase in Financial Inclusion of the poor on the bhangra wall basically meant that these groups were able to take advantage of those new economy opportunities and then finally this is a period when weve seen a very rapid expansion particularly new no no Income Countries of safety net programs programs that protect those that were lifted out of poverty from the morning back into poverty again so its really a combination of those 3 factors so kelly let me ask you to gaze into your crystal ball and i mean assuming we are able to get a vaccine how long do you think it will take to reverse this decline that as i said you know were in the midst of the worst reversal in Poverty Reduction that we have seen as we are starting to morning very big systematically you know in 1990 s. I think its quite clear that reimbursing the years will not be easy and we not be quick our projections show that poverty raid signal and poverty rates will be about 7 percent by the year 2030 based on historical growth rates and if you mean 9 creasing you know portie and they could be after 8. 6 percent if you know they were to increase by one percentage point for a year over the next decade which given what we know about previous pandemics is actually quite likely to happen so in these. Context whats very clear is that we need swift significant and sustain action by governments and Development Partners to promote and support a strong recovery somebody who has these rivers of argument that absolutely so just talk us through quickly you know what governments need to do because if they do spend more all where does that money come from so in these 1st few months as i said earlier the focus has been very much on 5 independent make on protecting households on firms and given the magnitude of the shock that has you know it requires Significant Resources so we see governments across the world using a variety of strategy is to deal with this including a station of existing spending and one possible mobilizing ambition all fiscal resources but you know in many cases these efforts have not been enough given the needs of the moment and thats why the world bank and the i. M. F. Together weve been g 20 countries have supported their suspension of that Service Payments for low Income Countries in order to create additional fiscal space kaleena sanchez power we have to leave it there thank you very much indeed for talking to counting the cost thank you thank you very much well brazil is the worlds 3rd largest Food Producer but new data has revealed that more than 10000000 brazilians are going hungry and as the coronavirus pandemic plunges more people into poverty that number is set to get worse monica get accurate reports. Theres no shortage of healthy food in this bustling Street Market in Rio De Janeiro a covert 1000 pandemic may have crippled brazils economy but it still produces enough to feed one 6th of the earths population something president on natl made a point of reminding World Leaders at this years u. N. General assembly. Up is that despite the International Crisis brazils Agricultural Production neva stops and we produce enough to feed 1000000000 people. Yet more than 10000000 brazilians experience of their Food Insecurity according to Government Data just released by the Brazilian Institute of job for free and statistics and that was before the coronavirus pandemic now the situation is worse families living in poverty has always been a problem in brazil but the poor were invisible the pandemic is showing how goes truth ace on a cloud used to organize tourism events in austria she returned to brazil for a short visit but ended up staying to work as a volunteer in a soup kitchen most of these people in this line lost their jobs to the recession and the pandemic like Bala Mutambara who left his small town to look for work in Rio De Janeiro i dont buy that now the coronavirus left me stranded here and homeless but at least im getting fed i can use the public bathroom to buy 3 times a week. According to unicef survey during the 1st months of the pandemic the number of hungry in brazil rose dramatically. Seeing one in every 5 brazilians went hungry or admitted not having enough money to buy food the population as a whole lost about half of its income but families with children and adolescents suffered a bigger loss of 63 percent brazil is still the worlds 3rd largest producer of food much of it is sold abroad last year brazilians exported 32000000000. 00 worth of Agricultural Products to 180. 00 countries but experts are warning the government that the country means back on the United Nations hunger map its a place brazil had left 6 years ago. Now is often described as the last oil front to rear its a country thats known for its uranium and diamonds but in the last few years the oil industry has been beating a path to its door but no commercial deposits have been found yet but that hasnt stopped Oil Companies from snapping up licenses to drill recon africa small Canadian Oil Company plans to begin drilling in the north of the country theres thought to be around 11000000000 barrels of oil in that area but most if not all is shale and that has an environmental activists up in arms because they believe it will endanger local wildlife and communities rican africa is drilling in the maybe as can go basin where the country has the largest elephant population it also supplies water into neighboring botswanas vango delta. So lets talk to scott evans hes the chief executive officer of recon africa and joins us via skype from dallas scott welcome to the program let me ask you 1st with all the meticulous work that goes into the search for oil how much on and gas is that offshore and onshore in the media wheres things going to have to be on the show where were really focused on the on shore so i can answer this question for the year were working which is the conveying coalition so this is a brand new sedentary version recently discovered 8750000 acres north east and maybe a in northwest plasma into canada that we see over the 3rd Party Experts a 100000000000 barrels thats been generated now that will all be recoverable but we see it to be potentially the large key giant Petroleum Oil field sizes so Significant Resource and scott how does that then compare to neighboring countries and the rest of africa. Well i think that it would you know again really exploration fish or theres uncertainty here but i think it would be comparable to some of the fields of scale say you know and i adore next door. So we again were looking at a field size distribution at this point but with again i think its significant and of course if you do manage to get to the oil this could be a huge boost to the namibian economy which is currently worth around 15000000000. 00 and with a population i think of around 2000000. 00 people this could change lives couldnt it well you know it really it really occurred near the d uses of trucking we lets say 26000. 00 barrels a day right now success for us a lot new to be found next quarter of oil and cheap probably more poorly powered tendons will gas can not only generate income for this this interest self inspires a lot of other industry with a new generation of power and just tell us briefly scott a little bit more about this patch in the mid the way you plan to do your drilling for oil sure so again Northeast Corner of limited north as possible and were all within the current gas or so its an area thats been lightly populated you know some agriculture but an area that is well served by infrastructure you know one of the things that attracted us to community is that you know general overall a good infrastructure very stable government the terms are because culturally quite good though so its a great place to do business where we are is is a again in the kalahari desert so we have to be mindful of taking care of that yet and thats an interesting point you make scott because its also an environmentally sensitive site its a huge elephant reserve its has a Conservation Area World Heritage sites and of course a source of water for neighboring botswana. Yes we are absolutely focused on environmental social governance and our operations we are following all intimately in regulations and policies plus International Best practices. The things you refer to we refer to as no activity zones areas where we wont work well have a buffer zone around them and this is going to include the parts reserves rivers deltas and Community Sites we have a local expertise you know these have to be look lead ball practices but were going to make sure that we do everything in a proactive manner and of course the oil price at the moment stands at around 40 dollars a barrel thats pretty low is that going to hinder your ability to explore for oil scott. We are quite well funded we have an exciting story and you dont see a new basin you know im a geologist every day or so and 40. 00 gets on sure given were looking at conventional whereas of course we do think that we have a good economics could be better for us but were proceeding with our program and its our 1st well at the end of the year so lets just go back to the environment for a 2nd i mean can you 100 percent guarantee that when you frac for this oil that youre not going to damage the local area including contaminating local water supplies. Well and so the 2 pointed out 1st we are going to be fracking we dont have a plan to frack were looking for conventional reservoirs that dont require that the so you wont find that in our players or in our button or or anything like that so frac exam part of it we want the virtual reservoirs that flow naturally on their own 2nd part we are very focused on lot of Resource Management so what does that mean that has 3 basic tenets protection of the arc or management of it as as you mentioned there also are surface Water Management and drainage and then also due to earlier buffer zones so we have to steward the environment we have to make sure that the looniest used keep going to risen every culture. We already have plans in place and great cooperation with the little partners to do so scott evans we have to leave it there thank you very much indeed for talking to counting the cost thank you very much thank you very much there are no good evening and that is our show for this week but remember you can get in touch with us via twitter he was the hash tag j c t c when you do all you can drop us an email counting the cost at down to 0 dot net is our address and theres more for you online at al jazeera dot com slash c. T. C. That will take you straight to our page which has links and entire episodes for you to catch up on well thats it for this edition of counting the cost im Darren Jordan from the whole team here thanks for joining us the news on aljazeera is next. Be the hero the world needs right now or. Wash. Rescue teams work through the night in turkey searching the rubble for survivors of a powerful earthquake. L a o i money inside this is al jazeera live from die also coming up. Detained in the u. S. And then deported to Mexico Children are reportedly being dumped south of the border with no family. New efforts towards deescalation in a goal to cut back a commitment from the warring sides