Is another day in parliament laughter other government ministers are defiant too. No apology is required for breaking the law. I dont think that the government should apologise for having a strong domestic agenda. I dont think we should apologise also for seeking to advance our exit from the European Union. I dont think the government should apologise also for saying that we are attempting to honour the democratic will of the british people. Whats the opposition parties plan . Jeremy corbyn says mrjohnson should resign, but isnt going to call for a vote of no confidence today. The Supreme Court have said that he acted illegally, and parliament has reopened. This is a constitutional problem of huge proportions. It isnt a problem. And thats why i called for the Prime Minister to resign, because of the way he has been found wanting, badly wanting, by the Supreme Court. Hello, welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. We are live from westminster. What do you make of the latest political crisis . Is the pm right to say he disagrees with teh Supreme Court . Should he resign or stick it out . And what about brexit. . Less likely to happen than ever or could this galavanise parliament into voting through a deal . So much to talk about the many guests from all sides joining us this morning. First, Joanna Gosling has the news. Democrats in the us congress have announced a formal impeachment inquiry into president trump. Mr trump is accused of violating the constitution and betraying his oath of office over allegations that he spoke to a foreign leader about investigating his potential opponent in the 2020 president ial race, joe biden. Mr trump has called the claims garbage. The operation to ring home holiday makers who booked with thomas cook continues today. More than 70 flights, carrying 16,500 people, are scheduled for today, to bring some of the 150,000 people stranded when the travel firm collapsed. Some customers trying to buy replacement flights say they are facing prices almost triple the usual rate. Prison officers have regained control of a high security prison in worcestershire. Specialist Prison Guards were deployed to long lartin after officers came under attack from inmates throwing pool balls. One member of staff needed hospital treatment. A 43 year old woman has died after being attacked by two dogs at a house in widnes. The woman was treated at the scene in graham road by paramedics but later died after receiving serious injuries. Her next of kin have been informed. A new Study Suggests that its safer for a mother whos had a previous caesarean delivery to stick with having a surgical procedure with any future births. A study by the university of oxford found that women who attempted a natural birth after a caesarean, were more likely to suffer complications. Experts say mums to be should be offered a choice of how to deliver when possible. One of worlds Biggest Toy Companies has launched a gender inclusive doll. Mattel say the doll has been designed to allow children to style it with short or long hair, or in a skirt, trousers, or both. The company said they wanted to create a doll line free of labels. The duke and duchess of sussex have introduced their son archie to Archbishop Desmond tutu. The royal couple are on day three of a 10 day visit to Southern Africa with 4 month old archie. Prince harry will travel to botswana, angola and malawi over the coming days while meghan will stay in south africa. That is the summary, back to you, victoria. Thank you very much. Good morning, welcome to a cool and damp westminster. Injust an hour and a halfs time, mps will be back in the commons, after that ruling by the Supreme Court yesterday that the Prime Ministers decision to suspend parliament was unlawful. Borisjohnson has cut short his visit to a un summit in new york and is due to land shortly at heathrow. Therell be no pmqs today, which is what usually happens on a wednesday. Although, the Prime Minister might give a statement to mps later. Instead, the day has been set aside for urgent questions. We have various people to speak to. Lets speak to Boris Johnson loyalist conservative mp sir Geoffrey Clifton brown, who is treasurer of the committee that represents rank and file tory mps. Lord heseltine, former conservative deputy Prime Minister, who was told he could no longer sit as a conservative in the house of lords, after urging people to vote liberal democrat in the european election. Hes an opponent of brexit. Chairman of the brexit pary richard tice. Welcome all of you, thank you for coming on the programmer. Should borisjohnson coming on the programmer. Should Boris Johnson resign for coming on the programmer. Should borisjohnson resign for behaving unlawfully . Certainly not. Until the Supreme Courtjudgment certainly not. Until the Supreme Court judgment yesterday, everyone had assumed he was behaving lawfully, including the speaker, otherwise he wouldnt have allowed parliament to prorogue. I dont think he should resign. There have been plenty of cases in the past where the courts have made a judgment that change the law, this is one of those occasions. No is one of those occasions. N0 consequences, is one of those occasions. No consequences, the Prime Minister brea ks no consequences, the Prime Minister breaks the law, no consequences . There are plenty of consequences, he will have to pay due regard to the decision and we will have to move on to the queens speech, try and get a deal in the European Union, if we cant get a deal, we will have to see if we can leave on the 31st of 0ctober. If we cant do that, we will have to try and get into a general election. At the moment, the whole situation is in complete stalemate. Can other people behave unlawfully if it gets them what they want . I dont think this is a correct interpretation of the situation. It was awful until the Supreme Court judgment. The Supreme Court made its judgment. The Supreme Court made its judgment and the government will now have to act accordingly as a result of thatjudgment. Have to act accordingly as a result of that judgment. Would have to act accordingly as a result of thatjudgment. Would you expect him to apologise when he returns to the house . I dont think he will apologise i think he did what he thought was right at the time to stop now hes been proved its wrong, he will have to act accordingly faster i dont think it needs to apologise. Should Boris Johnson resign, lord heseltine . M normal circumstances, the Prime Minister would have resigned but boris wont resign. Should he . Its a different issue. In normal circumstances, a Prime Minister humiliated in this way, would go. But boris is not like that. His strategy since he became Prime Minister is that of hedge down my grey head down, charge, bowler in a china shop. 0ur of the election process was to get rid of parliament. Brecht said and the effect on the constitution. The law lords have dealt with the effect on the constitution, in my view quite rightly they have said that in our constitution, parliament is sovereign. That has always been my belief. I believe john bercow is a speaker who has shown exactly the same instinct and doris fell foul of that. Its not in his character to apologise or do anything of that sort. He will keep charging. What do you think of that strategy . sort. He will keep charging. What do you think of that strategy . I think its unlikely to deliver what he wants because large numbers of conservatives are haemorrhaging to the lib dems. 0n the other side, he has the brexit party who i think will not go away. They certainly wont. I doubt he can do a deal with them. My own guess is we are in for a long period of indecision without an overall command, majority in parliament. What do you think Boris Johnson should do . The reality is boris has lost control of events and the only way he can get control is to have a vote of no confidence in the house, to say we now need a general election. He calls a vote of no confidence in himself . The labour party are petrified of an election, the lib dems dont want one. What boris should do is say, lets get an election, you have to change the fixed term parliaments act, so you have to have a quick one or two day bill. Challenge the other side. Why wont you go to the people . The way to do that is to say, lets have a vote of no confidence in the next few days and have an election in the First Fortnight of november. Would it bea First Fortnight of november. Would it be a good look . Under the fixed term parliaments act he cant do that, only the leader of the 0pposition is able to call under the fixed Terms Parliament act. What we could do is try to put a one line bill through saying notwithstanding the fixed term parliaments out there will be an election on a saturday. The problem with that is we have to get it voted through both houses. That is fairly precarious. The effect is the same, will parliament allow their stalemate to be decided by the people or is it so frightened of the people, itjust by the people or is it so frightened of the people, it just wants to carry on with this stasis . The European Union dont know who they should be negotiating with, Boris Johnson orJeremy Corbyn. The great trouble is, what all the Election Year people want is to confuse the law and order right wing agenda with brexit and therefore get brexit through by substitute. Parliament wont let that happen. Let me ask you on that point, are you happy with the language of the leader of the house call of commons, he called it a constitutional coup, the ruling by the Supreme Court . |j the ruling by the Supreme Court . am surprised by jacob the ruling by the Supreme Court . am surprised byjacob because he has always set himself up as a model of good behaviour and manners. Always set himself up as a model of good behaviourand manners. In always set himself up as a model of good behaviour and manners. In the la st good behaviour and manners. In the last month or so, we have seen the most amazing lapse injudgment lounging on the benches of the commons, now talking about a constitutional coup and this is a tory, someone who believes in the high principles of conservativism, talking about a constitutional coup when he has lost a legal case. If i was arraigned on some sort of criminal charge in the courts and thenl criminal charge in the courts and then i said, of course, its a personal vendetta. People would laugh and scorn. Yet we have the leader of the house of commons talking about the unanimousjudgment of 11 judges, calling it talking about the unanimousjudgment of judges, calling it a constitutional coup. What do you think of that, a lapse ofjudgment . Ido think of that, a lapse ofjudgment . I do think it is a lapse ofjudgment onjacobs behalf i do think it is a lapse ofjudgment on jacobs behalf and i do think it is a lapse ofjudgment onjacobs behalf and like lord heseltine, im surprised he said that. I think as a result of 24 hour since thejudgment, that. I think as a result of 24 hour since the judgment, i that. I think as a result of 24 hour since thejudgment, i think that. I think as a result of 24 hour since the judgment, i think cooler mines will prevail. Michael gove was very careful what he said this morning about criticising the Supreme Court. We are the party of law and order and we will accept and uphold the judgment. You say you are but how dangerous is that language . That is suggesting that those judges are not independent. that is suggesting that those judges are not independent. I am very clear and the government, from what michael gove had said this morning, is very clear that they are independent and the judgment will be upheld. And will be respected. The big National Newspapers that are brexit supporters are all now using language or implications to undermine the independence of the judiciary. I want to ask you about a colleague of yours, are brexit party mp, she said do we know how many of thesejudges mp, she said do we know how many of these judges voted leave . Mp, she said do we know how many of thesejudges voted leave . Surely, if judges wish to politicise their role, they should be opened up to public scrutiny. Do you support that . We are in extraordinary times. Do you support that . that . We are in extraordinary times. Do you support that . Ijust read what she wrote. I have no context of what she wrote. I have no context of what she wrote. I have no context of what she was saying. I quite like the fact that the judges formed the unanimous view and we accept that, as michaeljust said it is the Supreme Court, what we have to do is move on. What the voters are interested in is how do we move on from here . People are not interested in the parliamentary games how do we get a general election so people can have their voice, speak and then we can move on . This is your former organisation that youve founded, leave dot eu. Many years ago and i havent been involved since 2016. Enemies of the people . Nothing to do with me. Do you condemn it . That was three years ago. The climate in which. I welcome the fact that they have a unanimous decision. The way the wall law works as it consta ntly way the wall law works as it constantly works with progression. It wont happen again, move on, have a general election. I want to ask about the future if i may, what is the way out of this for Boris Johnson . The best ways to get a deal. I think there are signs from leo varadkar that attitudes are changing towards the Northern Ireland backstop. I was with a High Tech Company yesterday that has an it solution to the Northern Ireland customs problem. I think that the best thing Boris Johnson can do now is concentrate on getting that deal. If we cant get a deal, we will have to see what happens on the 31st of october. If the European Union agreed to an extension, i think the Parliament Law will have to be upheld and then we will have to be upheld and then we will have to deal with the extension when it comes. Sorry, let me question you on that, borisjohnson has said he will not ask for an extension for stop tell me how that works . He may not ask for an extension, it may be that the European Union offer us an extension. Then he would be in a very difficult position to refuse that. The problem with offering an extension as they might do with all sorts of terms attached. Is that how he gets round it, he doesnt physically ask it, just intimate he needs to offer it . He has got to ask for it, palmer lemon has legislated. There is no question, it is a matter of law. There is no question, it is a matter of law. Parliament there is no question, it is a matter of law. Parliament has legislated. Is the conservative Prime Minister going to take the judges on another battle having just lost one . Parliament has a responsibility to realise this has to go toa responsibility to realise this has to go to a general election was that if the opposition declined that, i think the fury of the people will grow and grow. I entirely agree, we have to get out of this stalemate. Businesses are suffering in this country, they need a positive and known way forward. Nothing like as much as businesses will suffer if we leave the European Union. Nonsense its a separate debate. We are where we are. It suggested parliament will solve this problem. Lets have a general election. No. You dont agree on democracy any more. He used to bea agree on democracy any more. He used to be a conservative. The cause of all our problems is the referendum. The way to change the referendum is to have another one, which deals specifically with this issue. You dont believe in democracy . thought you thought the referendum is the greatest act of democracy of all time. Just listen, i believe in having a second referendum. General election. We wont have a general election. We wont have a general election. We wont have a general election because it will be borisjohnson bringing in the police and the Health Service to try and get brexit through. The truth of the matter is. That is democracy. Parliament is divided exactly as the country is divided. The general election will not solve that problem, it will lead, in my view, to another hung parliament. The way to another hung parliament. The way to deal with the issue is to go back on the fundamental of the referendum, ask that question, do you want to leave or stay . That may not help. At that time, it was a pack of lies to justify. Not help. At that time, it was a pack of lies to justify. The result of the referendum. It was a lie. In the light of present circumstances, we have to put it back to the people. Exactly, a general election. Are an unelected pier not accepting the will of 17. 4 million people. He only wants to acce pt million people. He only wants to accept it when it goes your way. am saying, ha