Lets start with the story thats dominated the uk Political Agenda for the last few days. Rishi sunak says its Utterly Wrong to blame him forfailing to tackle the issue of unsafe concrete in school buldings. As thousands of children return to classrooms today after the summer break, its emerged that more than a hundred schools in england and scotland will be closed or partially shut. Its over Safety Concerns about what is known as raac a type of concrete, thats known to be at risk of crumbling. Our Political Editor chris mason reports on a busy first day back for mps. You probably hadnt heard of it until the other day, but this stuff concrete that can get crumbly is building into a political mess. Did rishi sunak, when he was chancellor, walk away from repairs happening sooner . The man who used to be the Department For Educations most senior Civil Servant reckons he did. I was absolutely amazed to see that the decision made by the government was to halve the School Rebuilding programme down from 100 a year to 50 a year. The chancellor, of course, was at the time . Rishi sunak. So, what does the Prime Minister make of that . I think that is completely and Utterly Wrong. Actually, one of the first things i did as chancellor in my first Spending Review in 2020 was to announce a new ten year School Rebuilding programme for 500 schools. Now, that equates to about 50 schools a year that will be refurbished or rebuilt. And if you look at what weve been doing over the previous decade, thats completely in line with what weve always done. This Secondary School in County Durham was meant to open for the new term tomorrow, but it cant because of dangerous concrete. In both 2020 and 2021, the government promised 50 schools a year would be rebuilt. In 2019, the National Audit office said that £765 million was allocated to repairing school buildings. That number has since fallen, and now stands at £450 million. So, squeezed budgets and competing priorities for spending. Speaking to those who were involved in the internal negotiations within government at the time, the Department For Education did want more money for school repairs. The treasury wasnt persuaded. But im told there were other bigger priorities then for education, not least, the amount of funding allocated per pupil. This concrete wasnt regarded as dangerous then as it is now. Its the Education Secretary whos decided on the need for greater caution. But there wasnt much caution when she went all Potty Mouthed after an interview this afternoon. Does anyone ever say, you know what, youve done a bleep good job, because everyone else has sat on their bleep, and done nothing . No signs of that, no . It turns out, no, not really. A few hours later, a new outfit and a rather different tone. Id like to apologise for my choice language there. That was unnecessary, but it was an off the cuff remark, basically based on the interview. The interviewer had been pressing me quite hard, you know, why i hadnt solve this issue, which had been going on since 1994. And, you know, it is frustrating, because were doing everything now to take a leading position, to be on the front foot. But the consequence of that is schools like this one in eltham in south london, having to close the gym, canteen and toilets. 0bviously, whats now been said shows the extent to which there is, you know, this passing the buck within the cabinet. Is rishi sunak Strong Enough to do anything about it . I doubt it. For some pupils, parents and teachers, it isnt going to be the start of the new term they expected. Chris mason, bbc news at westminster. Lots to pick through here and im very pleased to say we will do that with the panel this evening. Lets start with you, right at the beginning of the report we had a former top Civil Servant speaking out in the media, i cant imagine such a thing, but philip rycroft, former top Civil Servant, what is your take on it all . This is a bit of a mess. What is your take on it all . This is a bit of a mess. What what is your take on it all . This is a bit of a mess. What a what is your take on it all . This is a bit of a mess. What a terrible i a bit of a mess. What a terrible start for the government coming back of the holidays walking into this one. All the talk of Back To School, a lot of kids will not be going Back To School this week when they should have been. This is probably symptomatic in many ways of our approach to Public Expenditure over approach to Public Expenditure over a long period of time. The prioritisation of new stuff sometimes over the basic maintenance, but also fundamentally about this mismatch between the Public Services we want and the taxes we are prepared to pay in order to support those Public Services. Unless we get that balance right, we will have crumbling schools and much else besides. This is not a story unique to schools, you can see this right the way across the Public Services which are very stretched at the moment and thatis very stretched at the moment and that is the bigger story here. Just to um in that is the bigger story here. Just tojump in there, do you think the to jump in there, do you think the Civil Servant was right to come out and say that . Civil servant was right to come out and sa that . ,. , and say that . Sometimes the way that these stories and say that . Sometimes the way that these stories are and say that . Sometimes the way that these stories are spun, and say that . Sometimes the way that these stories are spun, the and say that . Sometimes the way that these stories are spun, the civil these stories are spun, the Civil Servants who understand the backgrounds so, hang on a minute, thats not right. There was a series of decisions made here, the Civil Servant was basically saying this is what he experienced, this is what he saw happening and at times it clearly is right that former Civil Servants put the record straight. The context of this is austerity, credit crunch, very difficult economic times, very difficult decisions to be made. I assume you will not think that is much of an excuse. ,. ,. , ~ ,. , excuse. No, i also think there is a lot of politics excuse. No, i also think there is a lot of politics in excuse. No, i also think there is a lot of politics in this excuse. No, i also think there is a lot of politics in this decision lot of politics in this decision because lot of politics in this decision because this decision has been taken in different because this decision has been taken in different parts of the united kingdom. The welsh assembly, the First MinisterMark Drakeford didnt think there was an issue of immediate concern and since then he has had immediate concern and since then he has had to immediate concern and since then he has had to move too close to schools but is has had to move too close to schools but is intent has had to move too close to schools but is intent on keeping other buildings open that have used raac. In scotland you have the First Minister in scotland you have the First Minister saying there is no immediate threat to peoples safety and they immediate threat to peoples safety and they will not close any schools. There and they will not close any schools. There is and they will not close any schools. There is a and they will not close any schools. There is a big story in scotland about there is a big story in scotland about the there is a big story in scotland about the use of this concrete across about the use of this concrete across colleges and universities, so this story across colleges and universities, so this story will develop and expand. This could this story will develop and expand. This could include hospitals, too. What this could include hospitals, too. What happens if we identify raac in hospitals . Gillian keegan might regret hospitals . Gillian keegan might regret having taken quite the reaction regret having taken quite the reaction to this that she has. We are told we reaction to this that she has. Are told we will get that list of schools at risk by the end of the week. I cant comment any further cant go on any further without commenting on the lighting. Very dramatic im a big fan. Lets come back now to the moment Gillian Keegan got caught with those comments. Hot mic moments when someone is caught saying things they wouldnt normally say in public are nothing new, weve compiled a few of the more famous ones here. What did she say to you . Everything. She was just a bigoted woman. Said she used to be labour. I cant bear this man. Hes so grim. Yeah, blair, what are you doing . You leaving . No, not yet. You heard there from former Prime Minister gordon brown in 2010, the then Prince Charles in 2005 speaking about a bbc reporter and former us president George W Bush speaking to former Prime Minister tony blair in 2006. All slightly off microphone but you get the idea. Kezia dugdale, lets start with you, when you are in the cut and thrust of politics, did you get caught out . He. Cut and thrust of politics, did you get caught out . Get caught out . No, i didnt and that was largely get caught out . No, i didnt and that was largely because get caught out . No, i didnt and that was largely because i get caught out . No, i didnt and that was largely because i was l that was largely because i was working that was largely because i was working for labour at the time. It was close working for labour at the time. It was close to a General Election and it had was close to a General Election and it had huge was close to a General Election and it had huge ramifications around the tabloid it had huge ramifications around the tabloid press, gordon brown had to find the tabloid press, gordon brown had to find the woman he was talking about and apologise to her directly and the whole story was awful. He had left the the whole story was awful. He had left the microphone on and had no idea he left the microphone on and had no idea he was left the microphone on and had no idea he was still on air. Slightly different idea he was still on air. Slightly different from today but mps who have experience that will never ever repeat have experience that will never ever repeat that have experience that will never ever repeat that mistake again. It is therefore the repeat that mistake again. It 3 therefore the grace of god and all that. Philip, lets come to you. We spoke to will hutton earlier who said in this case, because of the way that she has handled it and broken, he doesnt think it will do too much damage. I broken, he doesnt think it will do too much damage. Broken, he doesnt think it will do too much damage. I dont think this one will do too much damage. I dont think this one will do too too much damage. I dont think this one will do too much too much damage. I dont think this one will do too much damage. Too much damage. I dont think this one will do too much damage. I too much damage. I dont think this | one will do too much damage. I have beenin one will do too much damage. I have been in the room with so many ministers over the years. One of my jobs was to make sure to take the microphone off them quick shot before they didnt say anything. It is a cautionary tale here for anybody that is speaking in public, make sure you keep your trap shut until you know there are no microphones within reach. I dont think it was a fairly of the cup, of the cuff comment. Think it was a fairly of the cup, of the cuff comment. Think it was a fairly of the cup, of the cuff comment. Thank you very much. Of the cuff comment. Thank you very much, both. Of the cuff comment. Thank you very much, both. Back of the cuff comment. Thank you very much, both. Back with of the cuff comment. Thank you very much, both. Back with you of the cuff comment. Thank you very much, both. Back with you in | very much, both. Back with you in just a moment. North korean leader, kimjong un, Will Travel To Russia for talks with President Putin according to american newspaper New York Times. It cites unnamed us and allied officials, saying the two men will discuss military co operation, including the possibility of supplying russia with more weapons for its war in ukraine. It would not be the first time the two men meet the images here show them in russia in 2019, for their first ever summit which took place in vladivostok. Lets talk to jon everard, British Ambassador to north korea between 2006 and 2008. Thank you for coming on the programme. I should say we only have the New York Times reports on this so far. Lots ofjournalists will be working away on the background and trying to verify the details but what do you make of it . I trying to verify the details but what do you make of it . I think firstly the what do you make of it . I think firstly the fact what do you make of it . I think firstly the fact of what do you make of it . I think firstly the fact of the what do you make of it . I think firstly the fact of the possible l firstly the fact of the possible visit has never become public is a strong reason why the visit is unlikely to take place. Kim john phone is paranoid about his personal purity, he goes to Great Lengths to keep his movement is secret and if its known his plan to go to vladivostok to meet putin, he is likely to cancel the whole thing of the background is all about the possibility that north korea might supply russia with useful amounts of munitions and other weapons for its war effort against ukraine. They have already been some north korean weapons on the battlefield, curiously some felt into ukrainian hands so they were turned on the russians rather than fired by them but not very much. Its clear that when the Defence Minister visited pyongyang for the 70th Anniversary of the end of the korean war that there were lots of talks then about possible supplies. What we dont know is exactly how far those talks have gone. I suspect it will be a while before a deal is struck the pillars the north koreans must know russians are desperate for the weapons. I suspect the kremlin is hesitating. Weapons. I suspect the kremlin is hesitatinu. ,. ,. Hesitating. How much difference could it make . Hesitating. How much difference could it make . Are hesitating. How much difference could it make . Are there hesitating. How much difference | could it make . Are there enough supplies . Could it make . Are there enough su lies . ,. ,. ,. , supplies . North korea has quite big Stockiles Supplies . North korea has quite big stockpiles of supplies . North korea has quite big stockpiles of rather supplies . North korea has quite big stockpiles of rather oldfashioned l stockpiles of rather Old Fashioned weapons. Stockpiles of rather Old Fashioned weapons. Which you could probably supply fairly quickly. The big problem with these is that they are in very poor condition. If you stop pie shells, you had to give them a little tender loving care, particularly you had to keep the fuses clean and dry. It does look like the first batch of shells that went to ukraine, in exchange for russian grain, coincided with reports by ukrainians that the russians Firing Shells at them that failed to explode. It looks very much as if a lot of the north korean munitions were duds. Unless they mmp munitions were duds. Unless they ramp up their Production Lines and start to produce new shells, new weapons for the russians, the russians will have a problem. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. A Bullying Complaint against former cabinet minister Gavin Williamson has been upheld by an expert panel in parliament. Mr williamson has been ordered to apologise to the commons. 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