Transcripts For BBCNEWS The 20240703

From his big superpower neighbours that he seeks, he wants technical help for his own weapons programme. North korea faces critical technological hurdles in its nuclear and missile development, and beyond that, it needs foreign currency and oil, all of which the russians can provide. It is not the first time the Us National Security council has declassified information to get ahead of russias plans. Two us sources say the Arms Negotiations between the two countries are actively advancing. And in recent weeks, mr kim has visited a series of his ammunition factories, exhorting key officials to step up production. Begs the question, why . Sergey radchenko is an expert on Russian Politics and a distinguished professor at the henry a Kissinger Center for global affairs. Thank you for being with us this evening. What does this tell us, then, about the russian State Of Affairs on the front line, if they need ammunition from north korea . The sin of affairs has not been great for russia for a year and a half. The war has become a very prolonged war. It is taxing Russian Military capabilities of its manpower, and also its productive capacity, so we have heard this rumour that potentially russia is trying to source ammunition from north korea. The Russian Ministry of defence visited pyongyang, and what this latest set of statements from the United States suggests is that perhaps kim jong un could the United States suggests is that perhaps kimjong un could be visiting russia for the far Eastern Economic forum, which may result in the signing of some agreements, or they may even be secret, but anyway north korea could be providing a munition to rush in the coming weeks and months. Munition to rush in the coming weeks and month and months. Obviously the borders will be closed and months. Obviously the borders will be closed in and months. Obviously the borders will be closed in north and months. Obviously the borders will be closed in north korea and months. Obviously the borders will be closed in north korea for. Will be closed in north korea for two years since the covid pandemic. He has not left the country. Why now . What is it about this particular timing that is important to both sides . Kim particular timing that is important to both sides . Particular timing that is important to both sides . Kim jonguns visit to both sides . Kim jonguns visit to russia is to both sides . Kim jonguns visit to russia is nothing to both sides . Kim jonguns visit to russia is nothing super to russia is nothing super extraordinary in itself. He has actually visited once before, and his father visited russia on multiple occasions in a very special armoured train. I guess what is important now is that rush is quite isolated on the international stage, and this is the time. Russia for years before has been participating in the sanctions against north korea, so the question now is, is russia going to violate its own sanctions against north korea by buying this ammunition from north korea and potentially supplying north korea with vital Military Technology . That is the big question, and also the Beer Question in this, are russia and north korea drifting together to become almost military allies anyway that throws us back to the cold war period, to the 19505 . Us back to the cold war period, to the 1950s . , � us back to the cold war period, to the 15350s . Us back to the cold war period, to the 19505 . The 1950s . Yeah, im going to put that to our the 1950s . Yeah, im going to put that to our panel the 1950s . Yeah, im going to put that to our panel in the 1950s . Yeah, im going to put that to our panel in a the 1950s . Yeah, im going to put i that to our panel in a second. There was one other thing that occurred to me, and that is that if they are seeking weapons from north korea, they are not getting those weapons from china. , they are not getting those weapons from china. , , they are not getting those weapons from china. ,. , from china. China has been fairly careful, from china. China has been fairly careful. Fairly from china. China has been fairly careful, fairly careful from china. China has been fairly careful, fairly careful in from china. China has been fairly careful, fairly careful in not careful, fairly careful in not overstepping certain redlines. The west of course had signalled, the United States has signalled, that it would not be acceptable for china to do that and the chinese, from what we can tell, have not been actually providing russia with any weapons or military technologies, although they have been helping russia evade sanctions in other ways. So north korea, in this sense, is an interesting source for russia, but i also dont want to overstate whether this is going to happen or not because, for russia, anotherfactor to consider is their relationship with south korea, which has been very close economically and actually has a much more important to russia in the recent decades than the relationship with north korea, so that itself is also a break on how far russia may be willing to go with north korea, but if this information is confirmed, and russia does gain, get inanition from north korea, that would be a major major new development. Would be a maor maor new development. would be a maor maor new development. Would be a maor maor new develoment. , ,. , would be a maor maor new develoment. ,. ,. , development. Stay with us. I want to brina this development. Stay with us. I want to bring this to development. Stay with us. I want to bring this to our development. Stay with us. I want to bring this to our panel. Development. Stay with us. I want to bring this to our panel. Scott bring this to our panel. Scott galloway, the newer times a day called it the axis of the aggrieved, china, russia, north korea, coming together in a block that really we have not seen since the cold war the new york times. We have got the world splitting into different axes. Should that concern the west and is this meeting part of that . Good should that concern the west and is this meeting part of that . This meeting part of that . Good to be with yom this meeting part of that . Good to be with yom i this meeting part of that . Good to be with you. I actually this meeting part of that . Good to be with you. I actually see this meeting part of that . Good to be with you. I actually see this this meeting part of that . Good to be with you. I actually see this as | be with you. I actually see this as heartening be with you. I actually see this as heartening. The west approach from three heartening. The west approach from three to heartening. The west approach from three to try heartening. The west approach from three to try and seek their demand for additional Artillery Shells, and when for additional Artillery Shells, and when russia has to go hat in hand to north when russia has to go hat in hand to north korea, who is known for its military north korea, who is known for its military expenditures but not position military expenditures but not position or might commit to me, the word that position or might commit to me, the word that came to mind was desperate. Its against the notion that this desperate. Its against the notion that this war is going very poorly for russia that this war is going very poorly for russia. I got to think they are the vendor for russia. I got to think they are the vendor of last choice for russia, the vendor of last choice for russia, so to do this publicly and acknowledge that they have to go asking acknowledge that they have to go asking for manufactured equipment from what asking for manufactured equipment from what is arguably one of the most from what is arguably one of the most backward and least sophisticated nations in the world, again. Sophisticated nations in the world, again. The sophisticated nations in the world, again, the word i would use his desperate again, the word i would use his desperate again, the word i would use his deserate. �. , desperate. And with the White House Sa S the desperate. And with the white house says they will desperate. And with the white house says they will pay desperate. And with the white house says they will pay the desperate. And with the white house says they will pay the price, desperate. And with the white house says they will pay the price, north i says they will pay the price, north korea, if they meet Vladimir Putin in light of all stock, what does pay the price mean, because they are already under pretty heavy sanctions . Already under pretty heavy sanctions . ,. , sanctions . Yeah, that is a good question. Sanctions . Yeah, that is a good question, because sanctions . Yeah, that is a good question, because they sanctions . Yeah, that is a good question, because they were i sanctions . Yeah, that is a good question, because they were talking about question, because they were talking about economic sanctions. That is the sabre rattling. But he ended the day, sabre rattling. But he ended the day, a sabre rattling. But he ended the day, a nation with him is no internet. Day, a nation with him is no internet, what is left to impose on them . Internet, what is left to impose on them . I internet, what is left to impose on them . I imagine they will come up with different things, and i think it would with different things, and i think it would be impacting the relationship more with other nations then maybe have that debbie have somewhat then maybe have that debbie have somewhat of a less frosty relationship, but i cannot imagine. I do not know what else we are imagine. I do not know what else we are going imagine. I do not know what else we are going to do with them, so i agree we are going to do with them, so i agree with we are going to do with them, so i agree with you, i believe that is a hit of agree with you, i believe that is a hit of a agree with you, i believe that is a bit of a hollow threat. Paul waugh, it does fit a bit of a hollow threat. Paul waugh, it does fit a pattern, bit of a hollow threat. Paul waugh, it does fit a pattern, this, bit of a hollow threat. Paul waugh, it does fit a pattern, this, the it does fit a pattern, this, the white house. They declassified information before her but ahead of the invasion last february. They said they were good to seek drones from iran and indeed iran supplied drones. What does it do, this, by telling us there is going to be a meeting ahead of time . Why do you think a National Security council is doing that . I think a National Security council is doinu that . ~ � , think a National Security council is doinu that . ~ � ,. , doing that . I think theres a couple of reasons doing that . I think theres a couple of reasons. Wanted doing that . I think theres a couple of reasons. Wanted to doing that . I think theres a couple of reasons. Wanted to make doing that . I think theres a couple i of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like britain of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like britain are of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like britain are on of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like britain are on the of reasons. Wanted to make sure that allies like britain are on the same allies like britain are on the same page allies like britain are on the same page and allies like britain are on the same page and the allies like britain are on the same page and the Public Allies like britain are on the same page and the public in allies like britain are on the same page and the public in western i page and the public in western nations page and the public in western nations are page and the public in western nations are on page and the public in western nations are on board page and the public in western nations are on board with i page and the public in western nations are on board with this. | page and the public in western i nations are on board with this. The idea that nations are on board with this. The idea that somehow nations are on board with this. The idea that somehow there nations are on board with this. The idea that somehow there is nations are on board with this. The idea that somehow there is a nations are on board with this. The idea that somehow there is a freshj idea that somehow there is a fresh threat idea that somehow there is a fresh threat from idea that somehow there is a fresh threat from north idea that somehow there is a fresh threat from north korea idea that somehow there is a fresh threat from north korea and idea that somehow there is a fresh threat from north korea and that i idea that somehow there is a fresh i threat from north korea and that we have got threat from north korea and that we have got to threat from north korea and that we have got to he threat from north korea and that we have got to be alive threat from north korea and that we have got to be alive to threat from north korea and that we have got to be alive to it, threat from north korea and that we have got to be alive to it, but have got to be alive to it, but there have got to be alive to it, but there is have got to be alive to it, but there is also have got to be alive to it, but there is also the have got to be alive to it, but there is also the practical have got to be alive to it, but i there is also the practical reason, which there is also the practical reason, which is there is also the practical reason, which is there there is also the practical reason, which is there going there is also the practical reason, which is there going to there is also the practical reason, which is there going to try there is also the practical reason, i which is there going to try and make sure this which is there going to try and make sure this visit which is there going to try and make sure this visit does which is there going to try and make sure this visit does not which is there going to try and make sure this visit does not happen at i sure this visit does not happen at all was sure this visit does not happen at all was lry sure this visit does not happen at all was by the sure this visit does not happen at all was by the very sure this visit does not happen at all was by the very fact sure this visit does not happen at all was by the very fact of all was by the very fact of publicising all was by the very fact of publicising and, all was by the very fact of publicising and, given i all was by the very fact Ofi Publicising and, given that kimjong un is very kim jong un is very paranoid about his personal kim jong un is very paranoid about his personal security, kim jong un is very paranoid about his personal security, he kim jong un is very paranoid about his personal security, he may kim jong un is very paranoid about his personal security, he may want| his personal security, he may want to cancel his personal security, he may want to cancel the his personal security, he may want to cancel the trip his personal security, he may want to cancel the trip now his personal security, he may want to cancel the trip now that his personal security, he may want to cancel the trip now that it his personal security, he may want to cancel the trip now that it is i to cancel the trip now that it is unknown to cancel the trip now that it is unknown it to cancel the trip now that it is unknown it is to cancel the trip now that it is unknown it is happening. I to cancel the trip now that it is unknown it is happening. That| to cancel the trip now that it is i unknown it is happening. That is one reason unknown it is happening. That is one reason unknown it is happening. That is one reason widely unknown it is happening. That is one reason. Widely known unknown it is happening. That is one reason. Widely known it unknown it is happening. That is one reason. Widely known it is reason. Widely known it is happening reason. Widely known it is happening as reason. Widely known it is happening. As scott reason. Widely known it is happening. As scott says, i reason. Widely known it is. Happening. As scott says, this reason. Widely known it is happening. As scott says, this two is desperation happening. As scott says, this two is desperation for happening. As scott says, this two is desperation for moscow. Happening. As scott says, this two is desperation for moscow. That i happening. As scott says, this two is desperation for moscow. That is| is desperation for moscow. That is the bigger is desperation for moscow. That is the bigger picture. Is desperation for moscow. That is the bigger picture. North is desperation for moscow. That is the bigger picture. North korea i is desperation for moscow. That is the bigger picture. North korea is| the bigger picture. North korea is one of the bigger picture. North korea is one of the the bigger picture. North korea is one of the places the bigger picture. North korea is one of the places close the bigger picture. North korea is one of the places close enough, i the bigger picture. North korea is. One of the places close enough, well armed one of the places close enough, well armed enough one of the places close enough, well armed enough and one of the places close enough, well armed enough and needy one of the places close enough, well armed enough and needy enough i one of the places close enough, well armed enough and needy enough for this deal armed enough and needy enough for this deal to armed enough and needy enough for this deal to happen. Armed enough and needy enough for this deal to happen. This armed enough and needy enough for this deal to happen. This first this deal to happen. This first world this deal to happen. This First World War this deal to happen. This First World War conflict this deal to happen. This First World War conflict which i this deal to happen. This First World War conflict which is i this deal to happen. This First World War conflict which is turning into on world war conflict which is turning into on the world war conflict which is turning into on the ground, world war conflict which is turning into on the ground, with world war conflict which is turning into on the ground, with artillery i into on the ground, with artillery really into on the ground, with artillery really being into on the ground, with artillery really being a into on the ground, with artillery really being a premium, into on the ground, with artillery really being a premium, if into on the ground, with artillery| really being a premium, if youve ot really being a premium, if youve got Old Fashioned really being a premium, if youve got Old Fashioned artillery really being a premium, if youve got Old Fashioned Artillery Shellsj got Old Fashioned Artillery Shells and are got Old Fashioned Artillery Shells and are running got Old Fashioned Artillery Shells and are running out got Old Fashioned Artillery Shells and are running out of got Old Fashioned Artillery Shells and are running out of them, i and are running out of them, Old Fashioned and are running out of them, Old Fashioned warfare and are running out of them, Old Fashioned warfare is i and are running out of them, i Old Fashioned warfare is what you can rely Old Fashioned warfare is what you can rely on Old Fashioned warfare is what you can rely on from Old Fashioned warfare is what you can rely on from north Old Fashioned warfare is what you can rely on from north korea. I can rely on from north korea. Hightech can rely on from north korea. High tech exchanges can rely on from north korea. High tech exchanges of can rely on from north korea. High tech exchanges of intelligence seems high tech exchanges of intelligence seems off high tech exchanges of intelligence seems off the high tech exchanges of intelligence seems off the mark, high tech exchanges of intelligence seems off the mark, because high tech exchanges of intelligence seems off the mark, because i seems off the mark, because i suspect seems off the mark, because i suspect russia seems off the mark, because i suspect russia is seems off the mark, because i suspect russia is not seems off the mark, because i suspect russia is not going i seems off the mark, because i suspect russia is not going toi seems off the mark, because i. Suspect russia is not going to be doing suspect russia is not going to be doing that suspect russia is not going to be doing that for suspect russia is not going to be doing that. For a suspect russia is not going to be doing that. For a start suspect russia is not going to be doing that. For a start of suspect russia is not going to be doing that. For a start of it suspect russia is not going to be doing that. For a start of it is i doing that. For a start of it is suffering doing that. For a start of it is suffering its doing that. For a start of it is suffering its own doing that. For a start of it is suffering its own sanctions i doing that. For a start of it is i suffering its own sanctions when it comes suffering its own sanctions when it comes to suffering its own sanctions when it comes to computer suffering its own sanctions when it comes to Computer Chips suffering its own sanctions when it comes to Computer Chips from i suffering its own sanctions when it comes to Computer Chips from the j comes to Computer Chips from the west comes to Computer Chips from the west. So comes to Computer Chips from the west. So i comes to Computer Chips from the west, so i think comes to Computer Chips from the west, so i think what comes to Computer Chips from the west, so i think what he comes to Computer Chips from the west, so i think what he will comes to Computer Chips from the west, so i think what he will offer| west, so i think what he will offer is, as west, so i think what he will offer is, as you west, so i think what he will offer is, as you hinted west, so i think what he will offer is, as you hinted at west, so i think what he will offer is, as you hinted at in west, so i think what he will offer is, as you hinted at in your west, so i think what he will offer is, as you hinted at in your intro, i is, as you hinted at in your intro, that is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there may is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there may be is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there may be oil is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there may be oil and is, as you hinted at in your intro, that there may be oil and may. Is, as you hinted at in your intro, j that there may be oil and may be money in that there may be oil and may be money in return that there may be oil and may be money in return for that there may be oil and may be money in return for these that there may be oil and may be money in return for these dumbi money in return for these dumb bombs money in return for these dumb bombs i money in return for these dumb bombs. ,. ,. ,. , money in return for these dumb bombs. ,. ,. ,. , bombs. I suppose what it does do is it shines a spotlight bombs. I suppose what it does do is it shines a spotlight on it shines a spotlight on anybody that meets with the russians, in a way that probably sends a warning to china and it . They have economic interests with the west, china. You see the Warnings Issued tonight with the white house. That presumably is a deterrent, isnt it, and that is why they have put it out there . Yeah, the Deterrent Effect is significant. Yeah, the Deterrent Effect is significant. I yeah, the Deterrent Effect is significant, i think, yeah, the Deterrent Effect is significant, i think, and i yeah, the Deterrent Effect is significant, ithink, and i significant, ithink, and i suggested significant, ithink, and i suggested earlier, significant, ithink, and i suggested earlier, dont| significant, ithink, and i suggested earlier, dont forget, moscows suggested earlier, dont forget, moscows relation suggested earlier, dont forget, moscows relation with suggested earlier, dont forget, moscows relation with south i suggested earlier, dont forget, i moscows relation with south korea, really. Moscows relation with south korea, really. Really moscows relation with south korea, really, really important really, really important relationship. Really, really important relationship. And really, really important relationship. And if really, really important i relationship. And if youre really, really important relationship. And if youre trying to rebuild relationship. And if youre trying to rebuild your relationship. And if youre trying to rebuild your economy relationship. And if youre trying to rebuild your economy and i relationship. And if youre trying i to rebuild your economy and youre being to rebuild your economy and youre being by to rebuild your economy and youre being by the to rebuild your economy and youre being bythe us, to rebuild your economy and youre being by the us, and to rebuild your economy and youre being by the us, and by to rebuild your economy and youre being by the us, and by most to rebuild your economy and youre being by the us, and by most of. Being by the us, and by most of the western being by the us, and by most of the western world, being by the us, and by most of the western world, if being by the us, and by most of the western world, if youve being by the us, and by most of the western world, if youve got being by the us, and by most of the western world, if youve got a western world, if youve got a western style western world, if youve got a western style economy western world, if youve got a western style economy in i western world, if youve got a i western style economy in south western world, if youve got a western style economy in south korea that you western style economy in south korea that you do western style economy in south korea that you do have western style economy in south korea that you do have a western style economy in south korea that you do have a good western style economy in south korea that you do have a good relation that you do have a good relation ship with that you do have a good relation ship with in that you do have a good relation ship with in terms that you do have a good relation ship with in terms of that you do have a good relation ship with in terms of trade, i that you do have a good relation ship with in terms of trade, why| ship with in terms of trade, why jeopardise that . Ship with in terms of trade, why jeopardise that . It ship with in terms of trade, why jeopardise that . It two ship with in terms of trade, why jeopardise that . It two of jeopardise that . It two of desperation. Jeopardise that . It two of desperation. That jeopardise that . It two of desperation. That is i jeopardise that . It two ofi desperation. That is really jeopardise that . It two of desperation. That is really what is amounting desperation. That is really what is amounting to desperation. That is really what is amounting to desperation. That is really what is amounting to it desperation. That is really what is amounting to it does desperation. That is really what is amounting to it does snack. I desperation. That is really what isi amounting to it does snack. We amounting to it does snack. We are amounting to it does snack. Are heading towards the autumn, amounting to it does snack. are heading towards the autumn, and we get into a frozen conflict, when the bad weather comes to ukraine. Is there in urgency on the part of both sides, ukrainians and the russians, to get as much of this weaponry in as quickly as possible . To get as much of this weaponry in as quickly as possible . There is no doubt about as quickly as possible . There is no doubt about the as quickly as possible . There is no doubt about the urgency as quickly as possible . There is no doubt about the urgency on as quickly as possible . There is no doubt about the urgency on the i doubt about the urgency on the ukrainian side. Ukrainian politicians and president zelensky have been talking about for months and months and months. Give them more weapons, give them more quickly, get the pilots trained, the fi6s, quickly, get the pilots trained, the f i6s, etc, and damage on the west that the west has been dragging their feet and supplying the much needed equipment. The reason they are so driven by this, the wars costing ukraine a lot, but there is this fear that perhaps with the elections looming in the United States, something might change and the support that ukraine currently enjoys in the west may actually wither away to certain extents. The russians of course are hoping to outlast notjust ukraine but outlast the west. There also hoping for elections to change things for them. And i would not say that they are necessarily overly desperate. It does not seem to be at this moment that theres that sort of desperation, but of course this discussion with north korea has been on for sometime, so whether it is an indication that russia is unsliced legs, i would not say that this is the meaning of this. It is taking more long term. If we are going to whether this war of attrition, their thinking, they are telling themselves, we have to have supply of emanation and north korea seems like the reasonable place to turn to weather this war of attrition. Sergey radchenko, thank you very much for coming on the programme. Around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. Lets look at some other stories making news. Two people have been detained after using a mechanical excavator to dig a hole in the great wall of china. Police say the workers were trying to create a short cut through the wall for their construction work. Officials say irreversible damage has been done to the wall which was built more than 2,000 years ago. Ajapanese man has admitted in court to starting a fire at an Animation Studio that killed 36 people. Shinji aoba carried out the attack in kyoto four years ago because he believed the firm had stolen his ideas. Aoba faces murder and arson charges. His Defence Lawyers are seeking an acquittal, citing mental incompetence. And this years Bird Photographer of the year award has been scooped by this dramatic picture of a female Peregrine Falcon protecting her young, taken byjack shi in california. It beat more than 20,000 entries to claim the prize. And a 17 year old photographer, anton trexler, was recognised for this picture of a Blackbird Silhouetted against the moon. Youre live with bbc news. Donald trumps former Chief Of Staff, a co defendant in the georgia racketeering indictment, is waiting this hour for a ruling as part of his bid to move the Fulton County case to Federal Court. Last week, mark meadows testified under oath for several hours, addressing various allegations and arguing that his actions after the 2020 election were carried out under his role as a federal official. The judgement in the case will have implications for his 18 other co defendents, which of course includes the former president. Pending judgment in the federal case, all 19 are supposed to be arraigned in Fulton County tomorrow. Live now to former federal Prosecutorjoe Moreno and the bbc� s North America correspondent Anthony Zurcher. Anthony, can you remind people what is at stake here was met if Mark Meadows Dick successful, what does it need for the over Co Conspirators . If it need for the over coconsirators . ,. , coconspirators . If successful, he lets coconspirators . If successful, he nets to coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have his coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have his his coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have his his trial coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have his his trial heard i coconspirators . If successful, he gets to have his his trial heard by| gets to have his his trial heard by Federal Court if mark meadows is successful. Because he was Chief Of Staff under Company White house, he was saying what he was doing was part of his official duties, and therefore is a federal official this is the place were be, and that could be his interest in having a differentjury pool. The Federal Court have a largerjury pool, not justjohn from Fulton County but all of north georgia, so there could be more trim supporters there. It also could help you make the case in his mind that he should be immune from prosecution, because he was simply fulfilling his responsibilities as Chief Of Staff and there are certain provisions forfederal Chief Of Staff and there are certain provisions for federal immunity but that would be a difficult case for many of the other people who are codefendants to make, because they were not federal officials during this period, there were private citizens, they will have a challenge making any kind of a motion like that, as im surejoe will agree. Not least forformer that, as im surejoe will agree. Not least for former President Trump, joe. He can try and argue he was filling his role as commander in chief, but i think probably the ordinary person would think that he would be speaking to officials, find me 11,000 votes, as President Trump candidate trump. As President Trump candidate trum. ,. ,. , as President Trump candidate trum. ,. ,. ,. , trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a lot trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a lot less trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a lot less like trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a lot less like the trump. You hit the nail on the head. This seems a lot less like the jim i this seems a lot less like the jim activity this seems a lot less like the Jim Activity Of this seems a lot less like the Jim Activity Of the federal officer, like president or Chief Of Staff, it a lot like president or Chief Of Staff, it a lot more like president or Chief Of Staff, it a lot more like a political campaigner, a Campaign Manager or a candidate campaigner, a Campaign Manager or a candidate himself, and so i do think that it candidate himself, and so i do think that it is candidate himself, and so i do think that it is a candidate himself, and so i do think that it is a high bar. It is not impossible, but it is not something that a impossible, but it is not something that a judge deals with very often, because that a judge deals with very often, because frankly we do not have a lot of federal because frankly we do not have a lot of federal officials being charged with crimes, but mark meadows, starting with crimes, but mark meadows, starting with him, he has to show that he starting with him, he has to show that he was starting with him, he has to show that he was operating as the Chief Of Staff that he was operating as the Chief Of Staff to that he was operating as the Chief Of Staff to the president and then that what of staff to the president and then that what he was doing was authorised by the constitution and federal authorised by the constitution and federal law, and i think the biggest problem federal law, and i think the biggest problem he is going to have is that, 0k, problem he is going to have is that, 0k. He problem he is going to have is that, 0k, he might get past the first hurdle 0k, he might get past the first hurdle and say, he was kind of operating hurdle and say, he was kind of operating as Chief Of Staff, because that is operating as Chief Of Staff, because that is a operating as Chief Of Staff, because that is a very broad role and a chief that is a very broad role and a chief of that is a very broad role and a Chief Of Staff does kind of whatever the president tells him or her to do, the president tells him or her to do. The the president tells him or her to do, the problem is the second prong, because do, the problem is the second prong, because nowhere is it the job of the executive because nowhere is it the job of the Executive Branch of government, the president. Executive branch of government, the president , basically, underarticle president , basically, under article two, president , basically, under article two. Two president , basically, underarticle two, two collective votes or certified two, two collective votes or certified boats, right . States collective votes and then congress certifies collective votes and then congress certifies them, so that is going to be the certifies them, so that is going to be the real certifies them, so that is going to be the real problem here, is to say, ok, be the real problem here, is to say, ok. Even be the real problem here, is to say, ok. Even if be the real problem here, is to say, ok, even if we give you the 0k, even if we give you the fact that you 0k, even if we give you the fact that you were acting as president or chief of that you were acting as president or Chief Of Staff, what you were doing was completely outside the bounds of youriob, was completely outside the bounds of yourjob, and so therefore that is the one yourjob, and so therefore that is the one that i think its going to be a the one that i think its going to be a real the one that i think its going to be a real hurdle. The one that i think its going to be a real hurdle. Anthony zurcher, we are pending be a real hurdle. Anthony zurcher, we are pending a be a real hurdle. Anthony zurcher, we are pending a judgment be a real hurdle. Anthony zurcher, we are pending a judgment which l be a real hurdle. Anthony zurcher, i we are pending a judgment which will have implications for all the 19 defendants, but they will be arraigned in georgia tomorrow, correct . ,. ,. Correct . Yeah, the ones who are remaining correct . Yeah, the ones who are remaining will correct . Yeah, the ones who are remaining will be correct . Yeah, the ones who are remaining will be arraigned i correct . Yeah, the ones who are l remaining will be arraigned i think mark meadows pled not guilty today. He liked donald trump did so remotely. But they are going to have to, the ones who have not done it remotely, show up in court and make their case, and it is interesting. You are already seeing a but of daily creep in between donald trump and some of these other codefendants, as far as the cases are making their own defence. Even mark meadows, when he took the stand last week, it seemed like he was laying a lot of the responsibility here at Donald Trumps feet, saying it was donald trump who was the one directing him to set up his phone call with georgias state officials, at one point, one of mark meadows lawyers made the point that it was not mark meadows asking to find more votes, implying without saying indirectly that donald trump was the one doing that, so i think youre going to see the motivations and the strategy for a variety of these different codefendants start to divert from donald trump when they are facing significant prison sentences. It is their lives on the line too, not all of them, i think, will be willing to go down with the ship if donald trump looks like he is in danger of being convicted. Scott galloway, Anthony Zurcher picks up on an interesting point. Politico is reporting there was that first glimmer of that tried and tested strategy in court cases where many of the defendants poetry themselves as the hapless ponds and blame it on the apparent kingpin, and there is evidence already that these codefendants are starting to turn against him, and i guess the justice of parma will be hoping that as these court cases start to be heard in front of a jury, that more and more begins to happen the justice department. And more begins to happen the justice department. Justice department. Yeah, i dont think they are justice department. Yeah, i dont think they are looking justice department. Yeah, i dont think they are looking to justice department. Yeah, i dont think they are looking to put justice department. Yeah, i dont| think they are looking to put mark meadows think they are looking to put mark meadows in think they are looking to put mark meadows injail, think they are looking to put mark meadows injail, i think they are looking to put mark meadows injail, i think think they are looking to put mark meadows injail, i think theyre i meadows injail, i think theyre looking meadows injail, i think theyre looking to meadows injail, i think theyre looking to put meadows injail, i think theyre looking to put his meadows injail, i think theyre looking to put his boss meadows injail, i think theyre looking to put his boss in meadows injail, i think theyre looking to put his boss injail meadows injail, i think theyre| looking to put his boss injail or et looking to put his boss injail or get a looking to put his boss injail or get a conviction. Looking to put his boss injail or get a conviction. With looking to put his boss injail or get a conviction. With17 get a conviction. With17 codefendants get a conviction. With17 codefendants and get a conviction. With17 codefendants and the i get a conviction. With17 codefendants and the president is not paying codefendants and the president is not paying anyones codefendants and the president is not paying anyones Legal Codefendants and the president is not paying anyones legal bills, i not paying anyones legal bills, depending not paying anyones legal bills, depending on not paying anyones legal bills, depending on the not paying anyones legal bills, depending on the jurisdiction, i not paying anyones legal bills,| depending on the jurisdiction, a conviction depending on the jurisdiction, a Conviction Rate depending on the jurisdiction, a Conviction Rate ranges depending on the jurisdiction, a Conviction Rate ranges betweenl Conviction Rate ranges between 7090 , Conviction Rate ranges between 70 90 , theres Conviction Rate ranges between 70 90 , theres nothing Conviction Rate ranges between 70 90 , theres nothing like l Conviction Rate ranges between i 70 90 , theres nothing like jail Conviction Rate ranges between 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire cooperation. 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire cooperation. And 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire cooperation. And i 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire cooperation. And i think 70 90 , theres nothing like jail to inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly but inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly but surely inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly but surely going inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly but surely going to inspire cooperation. And i think you are slowly but surely going to start| are slowly but surely going to start to see are slowly but surely going to start to see people are slowly but surely going to start to see people dropped are slowly but surely going to start to see people dropped from to see people dropped from co defendant. To see people dropped from co defendant. In to see people dropped from co defendant. In one to see people dropped from co defendant. In one of. To see people dropped from i co defendant. In one of the to see people dropped from co defendant. In one of the cases, my Understanding Co defendant. In one of the cases, my understanding is co defendant. In one of the cases, my understanding is the co defendant. In one of the cases, my understanding is the former co defendant. In one of the cases, | my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff mark my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff mark meadows my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff mark meadows is my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff mark meadows is not my understanding is the former Chief Of Staff mark meadows is not listed l of staff mark meadows is not listed and it of staff mark meadows is not listed and it doesnt of staff mark meadows is not listed and it doesnt make of staff mark meadows is not listed and it doesnt make any of staff mark meadows is not listed and it doesnt make any sense, of staff mark meadows is not listed. And it doesnt make any sense, which people and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec lead and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec lead and and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec lead and imply and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec lead and imply he and it doesnt make any sense, which people spec lead and imply he was. People spec lead and imply he was already people spec lead and imply he was already cooperating. People spec lead and imply he was already cooperating. This people spec lead and imply he was already cooperating. This is people spec lead and imply he was already cooperating. This is an already cooperating. This is an attempt already cooperating. This is an attempt to already cooperating. This is an attempt to turn already cooperating. This is an attempt to turn up already cooperating. This is an attempt to turn up the already cooperating. This is an attempt to turn up the heat, l already cooperating. This is an i attempt to turn up the heat, such that these attempt to turn up the heat, such that these individuals attempt to turn up the heat, such that these individuals start attempt to turn up the heat, suchi that these individuals start turning on the that these individuals start turning on the real that these individuals start turning on the real target that these individuals start turning on the real target here, that these individuals start turning on the real target here, and that these individuals start turning on the real target here, and with. On the real target here, and with conviction on the real target here, and with Conviction Rates on the real target here, and with Conviction Rates that on the real target here, and with Conviction Rates that make on the real target here, and with Conviction Rates that make it on the real target here, and with. Conviction rates that make it more likely Conviction Rates that make it more likely than Conviction Rates that make it more likely than not Conviction Rates that make it more likely than not that Conviction Rates that make it more likely than not that one Conviction Rates that make it more likely than not that one of Conviction Rates that make it more likely than not that one of these. Conviction rates that make it more likely than not that one of these is going likely than not that one of these is going to likely than not that one of these is going to stick, likely than not that one of these is going to stick, you likely than not that one of these is going to stick, you can likely than not that one of these is going to stick, you can bet likely than not that one of these is going to stick, you can bet that. Likely than not that one of these is going to stick, you can bet that if. Going to stick, you can bet that if 17 people. Going to stick, you can bet that if 17 people, somebody going to stick, you can bet that if 17 people, somebody is going to stick, you can bet that if 17 people, somebody is going going to stick, you can bet that if 17 people, somebody is going tol going to stick, you can bet that if. 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a deal 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a deal if 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a deal if they 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a deal if they have 17 people, somebody is going to try to cut a deal if they have not to cut a deal if they have not already. To cut a deal if they have not already. So to cut a deal if they have not already. So i to cut a deal if they have not already, so i think to cut a deal if they have not already, so i think this to cut a deal if they have not already, so i think this is already, so i think this is what prosecutors already, so i think this is what prosecutors do, already, so i think this is what prosecutors do, and already, so i think this is what prosecutors do, and your already, so i think this is what prosecutors do, and your panelists have prosecutors do, and your panelists have more prosecutors do, and your panelists have more of prosecutors do, and your panelists have more of the prosecutors do, and your panelists have more of the main prosecutors do, and your panelists have more of the main expertise. Prosecutors do, and your panelists i have more of the main expertise than me, have more of the main expertise than me. Trut have more of the main expertise than me, but they have more of the main expertise than me. But theyare have more of the main expertise than me, but they are working their have more of the main expertise than me, but they are working their way. Me, but they are working their way up me, but they are working their way up the me, but they are working their way up the ladder. Me, but they are working their way up the ladder, and me, but they are working their way up the ladder, and all me, but they are working their way up the ladder, and all ladders me, but they are working their way up the ladder, and all ladders herej up the ladder, and all ladders here in all up the ladder, and all ladders here in all cases. Up the ladder, and all ladders here in all cases, although up the ladder, and all ladders here. In all cases, although codefendants, ithink in all cases, although codefendants, i think it in all cases, although codefendants, i think it is in all cases, although codefendants, i think it is 93 in all cases, although codefendants, i think it is 93 felony in all cases, although codefendants, i think it is 93 felony accusations, i i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders all i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders all the i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders all the to i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders all the to one i think it is 93 felony accusations, the ladders all the to one wrong, | the ladders all the to one wrong, and that the ladders all the to one wrong, and that is the ladders all the to one wrong, and that is donald the ladders all the to one wrong, and that is donald trump. The ladders all the to one wrong, and that is donald trump. Paul. And that is donald trump. Paul wauah, and that is donald trump. Paul waugh. From and that is donald trump. Paul waugh, from an and that is donald trump. Waugh, from an international perspective, here we are talking about the injury, and theres lots of intrigue around these court cases and we have not even begun the process, but you look at the per calendar, the calendar next year, through the early caucuses, super tuesday, and this is the only thing, or it is going to be a large part of the debate that the networks in america focus on. It is going to the most extraordinary election. It is most extraordinary election. It is auoin to most extraordinary election. It is going to be most extraordinary election. It is going to be an most extraordinary election. It is going to be an extraordinary backdrop next year in america, definitely backdrop next year in america, definitely full to that is what is testing definitely full to that is what is testing about this georgia case. A different testing about this georgia case. A different approach to the Special Prosecutor jack different approach to the Special Prosecutorjack smith, who has gone for a very prosecutorjack smith, who has gone for a very streamlined, speedy approach. For a very streamlined, speedy approach, four counts, six unindicted Co Conspirators, but trunrp unindicted Co Conspirators, but trunrp is unindicted Co Conspirators, but trump is the main charge. And youve ot trump is the main charge. And youve got the trump is the main charge. And youve got the georgia approach, which is much got the georgia approach, which is much more got the georgia approach, which is much more methodical, 41 at least counts, much more methodical, 41 at least counts, 18 much more methodical, 41 at least counts, 18 codefendants, and it is going counts, 18 codefendants, and it is going to counts, 18 codefendants, and it is going to take a lot longer, and in terms going to take a lot longer, and in terms of going to take a lot longer, and in terms of that time here we are Talking Terms of that time here we are talking about, it seems as though we are going talking about, it seems as though we are going to talking about, it seems as though we are going to get the federal case much are going to get the federal case much quicker and that could be heard around much quicker and that could be heard around the much quicker and that could be heard around the time of some of those primaries. Around the time of some of those primaries, and that will build up the pressure, and all the time the real long the pressure, and all the time the real long game is actually in georgia, real long game is actually in georgia, where it is much harder for trump, georgia, where it is much harder for trump, if georgia, where it is much harder for trump, if you georgia, where it is much harder for trump, if you were to win an election. Trump, if you were to win an election, to pardon himself or any conviction. Election, to pardon himself or any conviction, and that is why the stakes conviction, and that is why the stakes are conviction, and that is why the stakes are much higher. Any case they will stakes are much higher. Any case they will happen even after the general they will happen even after the general election, and if given that, then again. General election, and if given that, then again, you canjust imagine this amazing scenario for us overseas this amazing scenario for us overseas where a president who has ust overseas where a president who has just been overseas where a president who has just been elected, that possibly convicted by a court in one state, having convicted by a court in one state, having possibly won another case federally. Having possibly won another case federally, and then having to rule from federally, and then having to rule from jail federally, and then having to rule from jail. Just beyond belief. That from ail. Just beyond belief. That is from jail. Just beyond belief. That is the reason from jail. Just beyond belief. That is the reason why from jail. Just beyond belief. That is the reason why this from jail. Just beyond belief. Trust is the reason why this is such an important ruling, the men from the Federal Court, which will pertain to many of the codefendants. Coming from the Federal Court. We were expecting a sentencing for the leader of the proud boys militia. The far right group that took part in the january 6th attack on the us capitol. Henry Enrique Tarrio was convicted of Seditious Conspiracy and obstructing a congressional proceeding meant to confirm the 2020 president ial election. Sentencing was expected in the last hour. We will bring that to you when we get it. Two other members were sentenced to lengthy prison terms on friday. We were talking about how codefendants start to change their testimony dependent on how these court cases fair for them. There was one element of the Closing Argument that really stuck out to me. This is from tarrios attorney. He said it was Donald Trumps words, it was not him. Of course all attorneys are going make similar arguments . Sure. As far as the going make similar arguments . Sure. As far as the true going make similar arguments . Sure. As far as the true insurrection going make similararguments . Sure. As far as the true insurrection is, those as far as the true insurrection is, those who as far as the true insurrection is, those who participated directly in violence those who participated directly in violence on january 6, those who participated directly in violence onjanuary 6, they those who participated directly in violence on january 6, they are those who participated directly in violence onjanuary 6, they are of course violence onjanuary 6, they are of course 202 violence onjanuary 6, they are of course 20. 2 donald trump. The question course 20. 2 donald trump. The question is. Course 20. 2 donald trump. The question is, can that are prosecutors tie him to the violence . I have prosecutors tie him to the violence . I have to prosecutors tie him to the violence . I have to think, if they could, they would i have to think, if they could, they would have i have to think, if they could, they would have done it by now. It is difficult would have done it by now. It is difficult because trump can say, look. Difficult because trump can say, look. I difficult because trump can say, look. I may difficult because trump can say, look, i may have used a lot of rhetoric. Look, i may have used a lot of rhetoric, but i never actually tended rhetoric, but i never actually tended anyone to do anything violent tended anyone to do anything violent. You might believe that. But the violent. You might believe that. But the interesting thing, sorry to rush you, were nearly out of time, is that he was not in washington on january 6, and that is a similar argument that donald trump makes, that he was not outside the capital, yet they still found him guilty. Whether or not you were instigating directly whether or not you were instigating directly to whether or not you were instigating directly to the violence, you had some directly to the violence, you had some role directly to the violence, you had some role in perpetrating the violence some role in perpetrating the violence on the capital, or on or around violence on the capital, or on or around january 6, interesting the defendant don the defendants, hundreds of them in dc the defendants, hundreds of them in dc could the defendants, hundreds of them in dc could have 22 donald trump. I understand in dc could have 22 donald trump. I understand prosecutors are continuing to investigate trump for additional continuing to investigate trump for additional charges. If they can yet charging additional charges. If they can yet charging with Seditious Conspiracy or other charging with Seditious Conspiracy or other direct connection to the violencem or other direct connection to the violence or other direct connection to the violence. ,. ,. , violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Violence. Anthony, final word you on this trump violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Trump will violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Trump will not violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Trump will not be violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Trump will not be in violence. Anthony, final word you on this. Trump will not be in court l on this. Trump will not be in court for the arraignment tomorrow. We. On this. Trump will not be in court for the arraignment tomorrow. No, he will not. For the arraignment tomorrow. No, he will not he for the arraignment tomorrow. No, he will not. He has for the arraignment tomorrow. No, he will not. He has already for the arraignment tomorrow. No, he will not. He has already remotely will not. He has already remotely said he is not guilty. That was an option under georgia law. And after having to go down to georgia to show up having to go down to georgia to show up for his criminal booking at the jail, i dont think he had any interest in going back to georgia again to be arraigned at. Ma. Interest in going back to georgia again to be arraigned at. No, im sure the georgian again to be arraigned at. No, im sure the georgian authorities again to be arraigned at. No, im sure the georgian authorities didj sure the georgian authorities did not have much interest in that either Anthony Zurcher, joe marino, lovely to see you both, thank you for that. We will no doubt talk about these court cases in the coming days. We are going to take a short break. Well talk about infrastructure, lean on our panel for the expertise. What is happening with infrastructure . Hello there. It was another hot day today, particularly across central and southern parts of the uk. It looks like temperatures will build further over the next few days. The peak of the heat wednesday and thursday and well also see the humidity increasing as well, and thats going to make it feel a bit more uncomfortable, both day and night. Our area of High Pressure sitting over scandinavia is drawing up the heat from the near continent. Low pressure sits out towards the west. Were drawing this heat up from france mainly, where were seeing some pretty high temperatures at the moment. Now, as we head through the evening and overnight period, it looks like more extensive low cloud, mist and fog will roll into parts of eastern scotland, eastern england, maybe around the irish sea coasts as well. Elsewhere, its going to be largely clear and dry and quite a muggy night developing, particularly towards southern counties. Wednesday, then, we start off with that early mist and fog. Low cloud across eastern areas will tend to burn back to the coast. It could linger across some eastern coast of scotland, but its a dry, sunny day for most of us, and a hot one. England and wales, high 20s widely, could be up to 32 celsius or so across the south east. Mid 20s there for scotland, northern ireland. As we move through wednesday night, theres a chance we could see some showers and thunderstorms moving through central and Western Areas, though most places will stay dry again with clear skies. But its going to be a warm and a muggy night, pretty uncomfortable for sleeping across parts of england and wales. Into thursday, then, a bit of a difference. We will see the chance of further thundery showers out towards Western Areas in response to the high humidity. But i think for most thursday, its going to be another dry and sunny one, with temperatures again reaching the 30 celsius mark or so across southern areas, but again, Mid To High 20s widely across england and wales. Friday, a similar story, a bit of a misty start. That mist melting away quickly, and then its going to be dry. Plenty of sunshine again. Chance of some thundery showers out west, particularly for northern ireland. But again, you can see its going to be another hot day high 20s for many, again, 30s or low 30s across some south eastern areas. Into the weekend, low pressure starts to edge in a bit closer to the uk, so it destabilises the atmosphere for northern and Western Areas. So this is where were likely to see the temperatures start falling, increasing chance of showers or thunderstorms, but it stays hot and sunny for most of england and wales this weekend. Its not until we get into next week that things start to cool down. Hello, im christian fraser. Youre watching the context on bbc news. A new law takes effect in new york city, restricting Short Term Rentals through sites like airbnb. Here in england, 150 schools have closed or are partially closed ahead of The New School year because they were constructed using unsafe concrete. The buildings affected contain a lightweight aerated type of concrete known as raac. We learnt this afternoon that a further 450 schools might also have an issue. Another 1,500 still need to have checks done. It is unlikely that review will be completed until december. The education secretary Gillian Keegan said the problem for the government is that 5 of schools have not filled in surveys about raac in their buildings, despite being asked since march, to get off their backsides. Weve got some which well be surveilling in the next two weeks. Every one thats found with raac, we will put the mitigations in place so were not going to do the critical, noncritical thing, im going to treat everyone as critical. And then, the annoying bit and this was probably a bit of my frustration yesterday is, despite asking since march 2020, theres 5 of schools responsible bodies that have not responded to the survey. Now, hopefully all this publicity will make them get off their backsides. Laughter but what i would like them to do is to respond, because i want to be the Secretary Of State that knows exactly in every school where there is raac and takes action. James saunders, a head teacher in essex,