Hello. Hello, laura. And hello, henry. Hi, henry. Hi. So last night, i was at my friend toms birthday party, and hes a very good amateur poet, and he did a lovely poem saying thank you to everyone whod come to the party. Happy birthday, tom. But hes also a big newscast fan and an even biggerfan of sunday with Laura Kuenssberg. Even happier birthday. So i thought, why not combine all those things together and do a poem about this weeks sunday with Laura Kuenssberg . Oh, my god. Here we go. Are you ready . Eat your heart out front row. White howards Double Barrelled Chef on sunday with laura kay. Politicians exaggerations going to get slayed. But first, this breaking news, a picture of recovering kate. But with all the twitter gossip, did it come too late . Rachel reeves bets all on economic growth. Vicky atkins asked why nhs productivity sloweth, but waits this weekend episode has no pad, fear not newscasters you can always call up add. I think thats extremely good, tom. And we all say one and all newscasters, happy birthday, tom. I was going to try and think of something that rhymed, but i cant. So happy birthday. Adam. I think what we need is tom for our next episode to rate your poem. 0k. Im just wondering, henry, youll know this. When. When do they pick the next Poet Laureate . Does the person have to die . I think they are on ten year terms. Like, does this have to die or . I think they on ten year terms, its that. Its that. And its been Simon Armitage for a few years. I dont know. 0r until they fall out with someone or say the wrong thing. So we have term limits potentially for our Poet Laureate, but not our prime minister. I mean, i dont actually i think we dont know. Well try and find out by the end of todays sunday newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Hello. Its laura in the studio. And its adam in the studio. And its henry at home. And henry, what have you just found out . I have just googled what i confidently asserted earlier. The last two Poet Laureates did ten years in the job which suggests adam will be free to become Poet Laureate in 2029. A ten year tenure. What were you i have just googled y confidently asserted earlier, which is how long people are Poet Laureate for. And the last two Poet Laureates, Andrew Motion and Caroline Duffy did ten years in the job, which would suggest that adam will be free to become Poet Laureate. Succeeding Simon Armitage in 2029 also means its a ten year tenure. But i think there as well. Laura, right, what were you looking for in your interview with Rachel Reeves, which lets remind people, was different this year because it came after the budget rather than before . Yes, it did. And we wanted to try to get her really to explain as much as shes possibly willing to and maybe a little bit more to the audience about what she would do if shes lucky enough to win the election with the labour party and move into numberii. Although she was a bit coy about whether or not shed actually move into number 11, however, and i think labours in this tricky position, whereas for, for Rachel Reeves own economic and political beliefs, largely following the tories spending rules, is the right thing to do. Now, she absolutely believes that for economic reasons at labour and think, oh, theyre not going to spend enough, voters tend to look at labour and think, oh god, theyre probably going to spend more. However, she has a problem, politically, whereas on the left a lot of people in the labour party say hang on a minute, of course we should spend more because Public Services in some places are on their knees. Theres also a different problem politically because some voters, including some we heard from on the show today, say, well, i look at both of you and youre kind of the same. So we were trying to get her to open up a bit more about some of the things that she wants to do, how close she really is to the conservatives. And in the context of this weeks budget, where the missing £2 billion Thatjeremy Hunt nicked was going to come from the government Thatjeremy Hunt nicked was going to come from. The government made their announcements on wednesday. It is now sunday. And i think your viewers would want to know that i was doing the work properly, that i wasnt just plucking numbers out of the air, but that i was methodically going through all the government documents to identify the funding streams so that all my sums add up. And i think theres one thing that you and your viewers know about me is that everything in our manifesto will be fully costed and fully funded, including this pledge. And i will do the work properly, as i always do, to make sure that our sums add up. I mean, lets sort of make sure our sums are adding up. Sojeremy hunt stole the policy of changing the taxation of non dom. So thats people who live in the uk but dont pay tax on their overseas earnings. In the uk but dont pay tax so that disappeared. In the uk but dont pay tax plus spending government money to cut National Insurance because thats how tax cuts basically work. Arithmetically that then adds up to that makes the black hole for labour slightly bigger. Whats your kind of back of the Envelope Calculation of how far down they are . Its a couple of billion pounds because the non dom Tax Abolition which labour had said that they would do. Butjeremy hunt has now gone ahead of them and done was specifically hypothecated i think is the word for particular policy. So labour said that that was going to fund a host of policies to do with the nhs and also Breakfast Clubs in primary schools. And that costs i think roughly a couple of billion pounds on labours estimates and that is a couple of billion pounds that they are going to have to raise elsewhere because they said very quickly after the budget that theyre still committed to those spending plans. So, i mean, look, Ithink Rachel Rees would have been politically negligent if she hadnt given at least a little bit of thought to what alternative ways they might raise the money if the government ended up going back on its previous policies and abolishing non dom tax. What i thought was really interesting in her interview with laura and in that clip we just heard, is that shes almost trying to make a virtue of the fact that she wont tell us. Shes saying, look, you know me, im methodical, im going to go through this slowly. Shes trying to say, look, the fact that labour havent very quickly said, ok, this is how well fund it instead is itself a sign of her fiscal prudence and fiscal responsibility. I think thats quite an interesting kind of Comms Manoeuvre that shes trying to pull off. I suspect what actually lies beneath it is that they worry that if they come out now and say this is how were going to fund it instead, and if the general election doesnt take place until after the next fiscal event, after an Autumn Statement in october, say, you know, the fear might be that the conservatives would make that Revenue Raiser as well and leave them having to find a third way to pay for all of. And we are in this sort of weird limbo, actually, i think, for both parties, whereas they dont want to put too much out into the Public Domain labour because theyre worried about the tories nicking it. And they also dont particularly want it to be the kind of mental levels of scrutiny that there will be in an election campaign. They dont want that right now. Similarly for the tories, you know, its like dangling this and i know actually were going get rid of National Insurance over the course of the parliament and so rishi sunak. Doubling down on that in an interview with the sunday times today. But, you know, we are still, in political terms, still miles off from actually getting into the manifestos. But the parties have to say more. But they dont really. They dont want to give us the whole story. So were in this slightly weird sort of limbo period, which is one of the reasons why when we tried to press Rachel Reeves today, i think quite rightly, would she admit if they win the election, that there wont be lots of extra money for Public Services, but not just that, that some bits of government would actually see real terms cuts. I tried very hard to get her to confirm that today. She did, she did tacitly say yes in code. Lets have a listen. Well, at the moment, the government have not set out their plans by individual departments, so we havent got a Spending Review. I will do a Spending Review quickly when i if we win the election. But thats not something thats possible to do from opposition. But i do know that Public Services need more money. Thats why we will make that initial injection. But remember also the Office Of Budget Responsibility is forecasts are based on the governments plans and the governments plans do not include our comprehensive plan to grow the economy. 0k, laura, theres a lot going on there and ive heard that three times. 0k, laura, theres a lot going on there and ive heard that three times. I still couldnt fully do the decoding. So you do it for me. So i think if you put that together with something she said later on, she said, we wont be able to do things as quickly as we want to and it might be slower than id like or Something Like that. Im sort of paraphrasing, but what . So she sort of tacitly said, yeah, in some bits of government it might be eye wateringly tight. What shes also saying is true is that she doesnt know and we dont know exactly what the numbers are going to look like by the time of a general election. Lets hope for everyones sake, actually, the economy is looking a bit perkier than it is now. But what we were supposed what we were trying to drive at is what her instinct is as. And when growth turns up, whats her instinct to give you, you and everybody listening a bit more back and to keep more of their own cash . Or is it to put money as soon as they can into Public Services . And yes, there is a little bit that theyve earmarked going out. And of course, actually its a huge amount of money, 1. 7 billion or whatever it is, its a lot of cash. But in the context of a government budget, it is a rounding error. I think people the treasury would say. So we were trying to sort of get to her instincts and i think she did tacitly say today, yes, the first year, if we win, might be absolutely horrific. But to sweeten the pill, therell be a Cash Injection to sweeten the pill to be top up somewhere. And my instinct is actually as soon as i possibly can to put more money into Public Services. But henry, you might disagree, because when youre watching at home and listening, you know, you get people different people take different things. Well, one thing one thing that i think is certainly a little bit overoptimistic in what rachel reese said there was. Oh, well, the pr dont factor in at this stage. Labors plans to grow the economy. Therefore things might be slightly more generous than they look at the moment. I mean i think even on labours own terms, their plans to grow the economy, which mean which entail reform of various Public Services and particularly reform of the planning system, that that is not going to bear fruit, even if youre extremely optimistic about it, thats not going to bear fruit for several years. So i dont think that affects the early years of the public spending envelope that labour have available. I mean, i think for that reason, one thing i dont know if its the same for you guys, one thing that increasingly crops up when i speak to labour people about the plausible scenario in which theyre in government by the end of the year is they say theyre going to be really unpopular. Thats what labour people fear very early on because a lot of people will have voted for them hoping, thinking that things will very quickly feel different and actually because of a combination of the circumstances which they will inherit, but also of course labours own choices about how to respond to the circumstances they inherit. They think that for a while, perhaps a period of years after that, potentially getting into government, things would still feel pretty similar to how they feel at the moment, especially, or including in those crucial Public Services. But thats so interesting, though, because my ears really picked up when Rachel Reeves started talking about tony blair and education, education, education, because im old enough to remember a time when his name was banned from being mentioned by labour politicians. And i wondered, is that her trying to create a bit of hope and recapture, recapture, a bit of nostalgic, sort of like reverse old optimism . I think thats right. Because, laura, in your piece that you wrote for the website, her mentor was alistair darling, who gave her three pieces of advice. And the third piece of advice was always leave people with a bit of hope. But actually, if your colleagues are then also saying to you, hang on, were going to be really unpopular because were going to do hard things, then it must be a really hard balancing act to know how much hope to offer. I think its really i think its a really, really, really difficult set of circumstances, both economically and politically. How do you make voters feel excited about what labour might offer when you know that theres not much in the tin when you rattle it around . And of course, politics is not all about promising spending money. Theres a lot of focus at the moment across the political spectrum about how you spend public money better. Nobody listening to this would think that money is absolutely the only answer. And yet it is, of course, a big part of political promises. And this is not going to be a chequebook election. You know, weve all covered and newscasters will all remember elections as well. Hilarious. Well, when people say were going to spend 400 gazillion Million Pounds on giving everybody free something, or were going to spend £20 billion on making all children be happy or whatever, that is not going to be that kind of election where people are. Its a competition of big cheques, which for certain people would be Electronic Bank transfers will not compare to each other. The other thing i was thinking about, though, which older newscasters will remember to perhaps as i do, is Gordon Browns miserly decision to give was it 75 p on the pension per week just after they had taken office and how that even for a government that had a massive majority felt that they had a sort of surge in enthusiasm that went down like a cup of sick. And that when you were talking about that. Henry that made me just think of that moment. And i think they are sort of prepared for that. Right. And also also they know theres this sort of anti politics mood out there at the moment. How do you make anybody believe that a politician might have any answers . Although i have to say, actually, our Programme Inbox and my inbox had actually quite a lot of positive messages coming straight in about Rachel Reeves sounding competent, sounding like she was a breath of fresh air. Maybe it was herfriends and family, i dont know. But its talking about Rachel Reeves and friends and family. Thanks to your piece this week on the website, were learning more about her as a person. And theres the two anecdotes that really stick out for me. Theres theyre going to her gran� s in kettering. Yeah. Also signalling middle britain. You dont get much more middle england than kettering. No offence to people in capturing its lovely place, and collecting the 20 ps from all her relatives that she was dragged around and then her sister splurging them all in the toy shop and Rachel Reeves saving them up for a rainy day. And then the other thing about her going this Charm Offensive in the city and weve all been to events where like theres far too much catering and like lose of pastries that no ones ever going to eat. And so she asks permission from her hosts. And so she asks permission from her hosts if she can put them in her handbag and take them back to her office. I know. Well, as she said, we asked her about it on the telly and good on her. She would say technically she leant into that story. She said, well, thats what youll get with Rachel Reeves as a chancellor. No, actually, its interesting the focus on Rachel Reeves as a person. Shes been in politics for longer than keir starmer and in many ways. Say much more political person. She was involved in the labour party at university, should be an mp since 2010, but she she really had a proper long wilderness period. I mean, it was alluded to by Michael Howard on your panel, laura, who said that unlike keir starmer, she refused to serve underjeremy corbyn. And thats true. And she was know she had been a fairly prominent member of ed miliband Shadow Cabinet. But when they lost in 2015, she retreated to the backbenches. She was chair of the business select committee, did some wor