Is it fair to keep pursuing him in this way . We will speak to the uns special rapporteur on torture. Good evening. The Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal court says he is seeking Arrest Warrants for the israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu and the Defence Minister yoav gallant on charges of war crimes and Crimes Against Humanity in gaza. Karim khan has also applied for Arrest Warrants for three leaders of hamas, for war crimes and Crimes Against Humanity in connection with the October 7th Attacks in israel. 1,200 people were killed and 252 others were taken hostage. Since then, more than 35,000 people have been killed in gaza as part of the idf operation, according to the territorys hamas run health ministry. In the request that has been sent to the icc panel ofjudges, the prosecutor has alleged there is evidence to suggest starvation has been used by the Prime Minister and his Defence Minister as a method of war against civilians. He also alleges the israeli leaders have killed wilfully intentionally directing attacks against civilians. In respect of hamas, the prosecutor alleges there is clear evidence they ordered mass murder, rape and the taking and Inhumane Treatment of hostages. The panel must now decide whether they believe the evidence is sufficient to issue Arrest Warrants something which could take weeks or months. But as you would expect, the response from both israel and hamas has been swift and damning. Hamas has said the Arrest Warrants for its leaders equated the victim with the executioner. In the last few minutes the israeli Prime Minister released this statement. Prime minister released this statement Prime Minister released this statement. ,. ,. ,. ,. , statement. The outrageous decision b the icc statement. The outrageous decision by the icc prosecutor statement. The outrageous decision by the icc prosecutor karim statement. The outrageous decision by the icc prosecutor karim khan i by the icc prosecutor karim khan against the democratically elected leaders of israel as a moral outrage of historic proportions and will cast an everlasting mark of shame on the international court. Israel is reaching a just war against hamas, a Genocidal Terrorist Organisation that perpetrated the worst attack on the jewish people that perpetrated the worst attack on thejewish people since the holocaust. With us tonight stephen rapp, he was the former Us Ambassador at large for war crimes within the 0bama administration. Thank you for being with us, ambassador. He is come on for a lot of political criticism today, karim kon, but i suggest he would not have brought these charges unless he thought there was evidence to marry the charge. Izre thought there was evidence to marry the charae. �. , the charge. Ive heard the prosecutor the charge. Ive heard the prosecutor operates the charge. Ive heard the prosecutor operates independently and has a staff including an american who has let this investigation where my successor for this Chief Prosecutor for sierra leone. So this is based upon their evaluation of the evidence and the applicability of the Rome Statute To Palestine and gaza because palestine is a state party and the State Parties to determine if there is jurisdiction. fin parties to determine if there is jurisdiction parties to determine if there is urisdiction. ,. ,. , jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is a jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is a state jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is a state party, jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is a state party, i jurisdiction. On that point, you say palestine is a state party, i think l palestine is a state party, i think the British Government made a point today that palestine is not recognised as a state, is not relevant here . It recognised as a state, is not relevant here . Recognised as a state, is not relevant here . , �. , relevant here . It wasnt relevant, there was a relevant here . It wasnt relevant, there was a certainly relevant here . It wasnt relevant, there was a certainly good relevant here . It wasnt relevant, i there was a certainly good argument on that question was relevant. But since it was admitted as an observer or state to the un in 2012, it became a state party to the icc in 2015. That was recognised, that ratification was recognised by the united nations, theirformer united nations, their former prosecutor united nations, Theirformer Prosecutor put that commission before the judges in 2020 and in 2021, thejudges said, yes, the state, any crime committed on the territory of palestine either the west bank or the gaza strip would be under iccjurisdiction at any crime, allegedly committed, by a citizen or national of palestine, people from gaza may go over into israel for example, the crime committed by those individuals, if they are citizens of the state party could be subject to the icc. The citizens of the state party could be subject to the |cc. Subject to the icc. The United States has subject to the icc. The United States has put subject to the icc. The United States has put out subject to the icc. The United States has put out a subject to the we the united. States has put out a Statement Subject to the we the United States has put out a Statement Today stated this could get in the way of the Peace Negotiations, the negotiations for a cease fire. It is not party to the icc, not a party state nor is israel. Some have called on dubai did an initiation to impose sanctions on the court. What difference would that make if that were to come to pass . Thejoe Biden Administration to impose sanctions. We Biden Administration to impose sanctions. ~ u, sanctions. We were called the Trump Administration sanctions. We were called the Trump Administration sections sanctions. We were called the Trump Administration sections were sanctions. We were called the Trump Administration sections were put sanctions. We were called the Trump Administration sections were put on | Administration Sections were put on the icc prosecutors because they had opened an investigation on alleged torture by the cia in the military in afghanistan and elsewhere. The sanctions were lifted by thejoe Biden Administration. I do not think sanctions are appropriate, used against terrorist organisations, to be used against a legal body, understand everything that goes on here will have to be determined by qualified, independentjudges. So thatis qualified, independentjudges. So that is not the way to a purchase. The way to approach in this case is the defendant, the ways to defend for israel are to say that, and israel, they are investigating these violations and they are doing a process on it. So there are ways to be taken to challenge it. I think theissue be taken to challenge it. I think the issue the administration raises in regard of peace is when im quite familiar with. When i was in boston had issues like this come up. As an imposter i would often reach out to International Courts and say to their prosecutors, that this may harm certain positive things that were going on at the time, Peace Negotiations and that sort of thing and prosecutors listen to you sometimes, sometimes they timed their things accordingly, but they rarely decide not to do a case based upon of some kind of political influence. It is important to note here that at this time, there was some hope of Peace Negotiations in several weeks ago, now those have completely broken off. There are issues regarding humanitarian axis, the deprivation of feud, food and other necessities to the palestinian population in gaza and there is obviously the Us Government has made strong statements about that. On the other hands, there has not enough calories reaching the people to support their survival, despite improvements, in Northern Gaza in particular. Now we have the blockage of the main entry point at rafah. So the humanitarian situation, is, in a way, even worse than it was several weeks ago. So it is hard to make the argument now not to proceed with justice. 0bviously, argument now not to proceed with justice. Obviously, we will see how this case will develop. I justice. Obviously, we will see how this case will develop. This case will develop. I think the developments this case will develop. I think the developments on this case will develop. I think the developments on the this case will develop. I think the developments on the ground this case will develop. I think the developments on the ground willj this case will develop. I think the developments on the ground will have exacerbated or even fast forwarded the decision. It exacerbated or even fast forwarded the decision the decision. It certainly weakens an one the decision. It certainly weakens anyone that the decision. It certainly weakens anyone that was the decision. It certainly weakens anyone that was tricked the decision. It certainly weakens anyone that was tricked into the decision. It certainly weakens anyone that was tricked into get l the decision. It certainly weakens. Anyone that was tricked into get to the prosecutor not to proceed because there has not been positive developments, sufficient positive developments, sufficient positive developments on the humanitarian front in particular. Of course we have the interference with some of the humanitarian convoys that are crossing israel toward gaza, but no arrests, no intentions of those that are doing those attacks, beating up Truck Drivers and others. So you dont see any general investigations regarding violations, obviously, it could take some time, but those are all factors that i think make it difficult to argue to the prosecutor to not proceed. We will see what the judges do with these Arrest Warrants, i anticipate, judges do with these Arrest Warrants, ianticipate, a judges do with these Arrest Warrants, i anticipate, a relatively prompt action within several weeks and then the final issue with International Justice which and then the final issue with internationaljustice which of course gets us back to the political arena is that it requires state cooperation. The icc does not have a police force and cannot send out people to make arrests. It has to rely on states and they will be relying on the 124 countries that are in the icc which is essentially almost all of europe, almost all of Latin America and large parts of africa and asia. So those estates will be under an obligation to cooperate and to make an arrest. And some countries will of course condition various aspects of their Foreign Relations on whether states are complying with International Obligations so this will have an effect. If it will lead to arrests, we will see. Effect. If it will lead to arrests, we will see we will see. Lovely to get your thou. Hts we will see. Lovely to get your thoughts and we will see. Lovely to get your thoughts and lovely we will see. Lovely to get your thoughts and lovely to we will see. Lovely to get your thoughts and lovely to see we will see. Lovely to get yourj thoughts and lovely to see you we will see. Lovely to get your thoughts and lovely to see you this evening. With me is our chief International Correspondent lyse doucet. Some interesting points there, not least the fact that a fence on the ground may have dispelled the arguments that were being made not toissue arguments that were being made not to issue these warrants now. There are constantly. To issue these warrants now. There are constantly, month to issue these warrants now. There are constantly, month after to issue these warrants now. There | are constantly, month after month, promises by israel to accelerate the delivery of aid, pressure by the bite in administration, Statements Ljy bite in administration, statements by the Biden Administration that it will happen. You remember them saying the magic word, there will soon be 500 trucks a day, i dont think there has been a single day, perhaps one, where they came close to it. So this has been a particular issue, of course, the israelis say they are doing all they can. The problem is with the un. The un is acting for hamas, it is the most brutal accusation they make which of course, they deny. But they say that the un does not have the trucks or the un does not have the trucks or the ability to deliver the humanitarian aid. So both sites sniping at each other and caught in the middle, more than 2 million palestinians in places on the brink of starvation and of course, the hostages, around 130, with no real clarity as to how many are still like and what their conditions are. What do you make to the investors point there that sometimes you have to find a balance between the efforts to get a cease fire and the search for justice efforts to get a cease fire and the Search Forjustice ambassador� s. Because this is come up before another conflicts around the world. This relationship between peace and justice has been brought up, as he mentioned, Time And Again for decades. I rememberthe mentioned, Time And Again for decades. I remember the un Envoy Working In Afghanistan in the region in the 90s and the 2000s saying to human rights groups, you go after justice, myjob is peace and dont get in my way of peace. And others as saying, you cannot have peace, peaceis as saying, you cannot have peace, peace is not possible without justice. A true peace meansjustice must be done and be seen to be done. And others, that includes, i remember the head of the new region refugee committee, he was a un envoy working with the head of the lords resistance army, and i remember the indictment with him saying to me, this is getting in the way of peace and he himself is a very much human rights advocate so there are those who say yes, they must go and but first we have peace and then justice. So the sequencing has always been at the issues of how do you move towards peace and in the long run, just this. Do they go sequentially or in parallel. And this is exactly what is happening now. Time and again we see it. Star; now. Time and again we see it. Stay with us. I want to talk iran, where they have has declared five days of mourning for the countrys president Ebrahim Raisi who was killed sunday in a helicopter crash. He was travelling back from azerbaijan with the Iranian Foreign minister hossein amir abdollahian, when their helicopter came down in thick fog. The search in a mountainous area in North Western iran near tabriz was hampered by the bad weather. There were seven others on board. What does it all mean . Everybody has been making the point that the hard line is the conservative hard line is, we will fill the gap, but there is a certain amount of celebration that we have seen on social media. So is there a Security Vacuum at the moment and how concerned will they be . There is no Security Vacuum how concerned will they be . There is no Security Vacuum and how concerned will they be . There is no Security Vacuum and there how concerned will they be . There is no Security Vacuum and there is no Security Vacuum and there is certainly no political vacuum. First of all, the conservatives, the hardliners, the cultural conservatives he could say in iran, they now control all of the main levers of power, all of the elected and unelected bodies in iran and this process began to be solidified in the elections in 2021 which broadly, raisi to power which saw a record low turnout in the country. I saw for myself in the 19905 covering the elections in iran, 5trong saw for myself in the 19905 covering the elections in iran, strong and enthusiastic turnout among voter5. That has been declining. In the election after election. And in that process, i would expect that this will happen again in the elections that they are now preparing i5 wi