Thats enough to fill an olympic Swimming Pool two and a half million times. Now, were not short of water, but the vast majority is ocean saltwater. And less than 100th of 1 is carried in lakes and rivers. You know, there is enough for all of us, but we dont all enjoy equal access. So what are the consequences for societies facing Water Scarcity . It depends on what else is happening. What other pressures are on, what other stressors are there. But Water Scarcity, which we could translate as drought, for example, will lead to famine, it will lead to migrations, it will lead to warfare, all sorts of things. So Water Scarcity is just the beginning of a long list of things that could end in societal collapse. Well, theres a stark warning. You know, Around The World today, one in four of the worlds population lives in a region facing extremely high water stress. It means they regularly use up almost their entire available water supply. So lets take a look at those countries. Here they are, 25 of them. They include india, the worlds most populous country. European nations such as greece and belgium and egypt, where the nile is under serious threat. And were going to hear more from egypt very shortly. But even here in the uk, the Environment Agency says seven english regions are expected to experience severe water stress by 2030. And meanwhile, the countrys biggest water company, thames water, its been under fire for years for mismanagement of water and waste water. Now, my first guest is one of the worlds top Water Security experts. Hes led the us defence departments task force on critical infrastructure, including water, and invented a product that draws Potable Water from the atmosphere. David stuckenberg, great to have you on the show. And david, let me start with this, because back in 2022, you said this and i quote, the earths fresh Water Supplies are running out of time. So, david, lets start with that. Just how worrying is this picture . Its impossible to overstate the importance of our Fresh Water Supply here on earth in terms of commerce and life. Water is the economic Potential Energy of a nation. And since antiquity, humans have always counted on the water supply on the ground lakes, rivers, aquifers, streams. And yet those sources are running out. So its important because of the amount of fresh water that we have available to us as humanity, approximately one quarter of a percent outside of the icecaps, that we begin looking at intelligent ways to not only utilise water, but how to get more water available to us. And david, we know that much of the world is already experiencing Water Scarcity. So what does that actually mean for some of those regions in practice . It has a very practical impact, a very tangible impact. For example, in the United States, what we see here in what we would call the breadbasket of the world, where we grow food for more than an estimated 100 countries, our largest aquifer in the Central Plains of the United States is estimated to be running out. This is potentially an existential issue, and it will change how farming and ranching is done across the great plains. It will change the contours of American Life because if you think about it, these areas used to be Dusty Deserts and now theyre fruitful plains of food and allowed to be so because of the water we bring up from great depths. But that water is going, going and soon to be gone. You have a Military Background as a us air force pilot. Youve seen conflict first hand. So, david, im kind of wondering, are you concerned that competition for water could actually lead to new wars and if so, where . I think theres great risk of conflict over water. It has been so since certainly all periods in history. The great civilisations of yesteryear have been built on Water Supplies and have been destroyed based on the viability of those Water Supplies. Certainly where we are right now Around The World is that the Water Supplies are becoming more constricted. And as that happens, there are elements that are wrestling for control and certainly this is true even in south america, where elements are coming in and beginning to control. Cartels for instance, the water supply, which you have to have for commerce and life without water in three days, you cease. And so this is very alarming. And certainly it is predicted that conflicts will arise over water. We see here in the United StatesWater Systems being aggressed. We see both state and non state actors attacking our Water Systems because they are generally some of the less defended aspects of our infrastructure. David, how did we get to this point . Because im wondering, is It Overpopulation or misuse, Climate Change perhaps or or a combination of everything . Because, again, im wondering, how did we get here in the first place . There are a confluence of factors that are contributing to the change in our water supply, its availability, and that is certainly population growth. Theres a heavier demand on the water we use. On top of that, you have conditions globally that are changing where water is available. A lot of the water that we use was laid down after the last ice age and it took hundreds and even thousands of years to go down into the ground. And now were withdrawing it at a rate that is far faster than it was actually deposited. So this is creating a scenario where like a bank account that is running empty, both the principal and the interest have been drawn off and now somebody� s going to have to pay the bill. How we pay the bill, i think, is very much the question of our time. Who are the biggest uses of water in terms of industry . And what can they well, what can they do to actually manage down their dependence on water . In most countries, around 40 of the water is used for agriculture. Thats to grow the food we need and certainly take care of the textiles that we need to clothe ourselves. But also theres a heavy demand on water from energy and there is a reason we call water, food and energy annexes. These three really cannot be decoupled. In order to create energy, you need water. And in order to create water, you need energy. Food, you need both water and energy. And so we have to look at these three things as rings that again, cant be looked at individually. If you think about it, the paradigm that we are using is to draw out the water from the ground, to use the water in lakes, rivers and streams. That is a finite source. We have a tremendously vast amount of water on the right side of the what we call the water cycle. Thats the slow side. And it takes hundreds of years to recharge an aquifer. But we also have a fast side of the water cycle. Thats the water available to us in the air. Its estimated to be 37 Quadrillion tonnes, which is enough to water the entire planet surface every week with one inch of water. So what does this mean . Well, it means that we have a side of the water cycle that is completely recharged every nine days. Today technologies are emerging that allow us to capture the fast side of the water cycle, the water in the air, and do something called renewable water from air. And david, youve described much of our infrastructure as based on roman technology, and youve argued that its just time to move on from that. What does that actually mean . Theres a lot of speculation about that, but certainly my focus for almost the last decade has been to understand what makes sense in terms of second and Third Order Effects for a new model to look like. And i believe that its a very distributed system that involves what we would call water at the edge, or much like computing at the edge, creating water where and when it is needed. And that would involve using water from the atmosphere. Again, that changes over completely every nine days, 37 Quadrillion tonnes of it to make the water where and when it is needed. And the technologies to do this are now available. It is clear that some areas of the world enjoy an abundance of water more than others. So, david, do they have a responsibility to other countries in some cases, not least their neighbours . I think we all have a responsibility towards our water supply. I think it should be thought of as a global commons. We think of it as a free commodity, something that is not to toil too much over because theres no cost to it. I would posit that the age of free water has come to an end. And david, let me end on this on a personal level, because im kind of wondering, how did you become so passionate about water supply . As a National Security professional one of myjobs has always been to look in the folds and in the gaps and to try to find the things that are outsized challenges in terms of National Security that were not thinking about. And when you look at water, that certainly qualifies as the number one, if not the most critical National Security risk on the globe to global stability. This is an asset that without water in three days, your whole entire economy and all life ceases. I cant think of a greater concern for a nation than making sure that its water supply is secure and safe. Well, on that point, dr david stuckenberg, Water Security expert and co founder of genesis systems, really appreciate your time. Thanks for talking to us. Thank you. Ok, lets now turn to egypt, the river nile. Its the worlds longest river and civilisations have lived alongside it for thousands of years. But egypt, its now one of those countries facing extreme water stress. Heres our correspondent in cairo. The United Nations has warned that egypt could run out of water soon. Growing population, Climate Change and the dam built by ethiopia on the river nile could be main reasons for the water crisis in the North African country. Egypt relies on the nile river to cover 95 of its current consumption, with 55 billion cubic metres annually. With an increasing urbanisation, a booming agricultural sector, a limited amount of nile water and rainfall and high temperature. The demand for water is constantly on the rise in the semi arid country. To meet these challenges, egypt has launched projects to improve water management, Rationalise Consumption and increase its desalination capacity. Abdel basset hassan, bbc news, cairo. Ok, so lots to discuss that with my next guest. Hes an earth and planetary scientist at the university of southern california. Hes also written several papers on water stress in egypt. Essam heggy, a real pleasure having you on the show. Essam, wevejust been hearing about egypt and the country has this growing population. In fact, there could be 50 million more people by 2050. And the vast majority of them live within Walking Distance from the the nile river. So just tell us just tell us how important is that river to egyptian life . Well, the nile is egyptian life. Historically, its the main source of water that controls the seasons, the agriculture, the customs, the traditions, the food, everything. So egypt, unlike many other nations who are on the borders of the nile, rely completely on that source of water. One of the most important things also to look at that egypt is a hyper arid environment, so its a very dry place. And so it does not receive precipitation, receive precipitation. But essam, it is suffering, isnt it . I mean, yes, its the worlds longest river, but its facing huge threats. Can you just outline what those threats are . The first threat, i would quantify it as the pollution. We have to think of the nile, its really it is the longest river on earth, but its flow amount is not that high. Its really a fraction of the amazon and fraction of the mississippi river. So because its flow rate is so low, it gets contaminated very easily because there is not enough flow to flush the contaminant through the sea. Its also the only river on the planet that goes across five climatic zones from the equatorial areas of the earth, which are very wet to the hyper arid area, which are very dry, and to many climates in between. So its vulnerability to Climate Change is absolutely high. And the third element, which is very important, which is the damming on the nile. Today we have an increasing damming upstream of the nile, which cause a lot of challenges to the downstream nation. Essam, the nile runs through along the border of of Something Like ten other african countries before it reaches egypt. And one of those countries is ethiopia. So i want to talk to you or ask you about ethiopias grand renaissance dam, because im kind of wondering, will that affect the flow of the river and could it actually impact the availability of fresh water . The dam is still under construction, so no impact has been observed downstream. However, that does not mean that these dams are transparent. That does not mean that these dams are not. They have a threat. And that also does not mean that these dams are very important for ethiopia, because it will generate electricity that that is overdue and and needed that is overdue and needed for ethiopia and for the neighbouring nation around ethiopia. So these dams, they are not in their presence themselves. They are not even. Because the nile passes through so many other countries before it gets to egypt. Im kind of wondering, does that does that make it harder for egypt to maintain the health of the nile . So thats a good question. So first, egypt cannot be alone responsible for the Nile Health Orfor i mean, egypt does not own the nile or does not control the nile. The nile is controlled by many nations. And in fact, the heaviest pollution of the line is in egypt. But africa can learn from the mistakes that was done in egypt and improve the protection of the nile collectively. So i believe that a healthy mind is good for ethiopia, for sudan, for egypt, for all the nations on the nile. Its not onlyjust good for egypt let me end on this in ten years� time, are you more worried or do you have hope that the nile will continue to be a healthy source of clean water for egypt . So im a Space Scientist and Space Scientist are optimistic. I mean, by every standard, everything we do in Space Research could be seen impossible by the others, like Walking On The Moon or sending satellites. But when it comes to the nile, i am not optimistic. And because the issues associated with Climate Change and Water Research in africa have been always perceived as a charity programme. They have never been a science and Technology Endeavour like water exploration on mars. If we dont put resources into Water Research and Climate Research urgently in africa, but we put it as a science and technology, not as a charity programme, i think this programme, this this problem will become worse in the upcoming yea rs. Well, on that point, dr Essam Heggy Earth and planetary scientist at the university of southern california, great to have you on the show. Thanks for your time. Well talk to you soon. Thank you very much. Now to ourfinal guest who runs a business that delivers cloud services. And no, im not talking about rain clouds. Im talking about data storage and ai computing. But these services, they do use a vast amount of water in their day to day operations. Its the most profitable wing of amazon, of course, one of the worlds biggest companies. And full disclosure here, the day before this interview, silly old me busted my ankle on the tennis court. So not to disappoint, i sent my producer david to interview one of the big bosses at amazon web services. On this weeks talking business, were looking at global Water Security and looking at that resource. Thats something you need in your own Business Model for cooling your data centres. How confident are you in your access to water where you need it . We recognise water is a really scarce resource and so weve actually made a commitment to being Water Positive by 2030. And what that means is that we will give back as much water to the communities and the environment as we take out primarily through recycling water, reusing water and improving efficiency of water usage. Efficiency of water usage in our data centres. Im thinking particularly about some of the regions that you oversee europe, middle east and africa, and and two of those territories in particular, Water Scarcity is a really acute issue. So how do you do that . How do you mitigate your impact on that Precious Resource . Amazon was a founder of the Climate Pledge and weve got almost like A50 Signatories across 38 countries on the Climate Pledge. And its primarily abo