Homes and transported to russia, kidnapped there. Hundreds of thousands killed and it was david who believed closed passionately about giving voices to those who are often voiceless in war and he went there himself to talk to those people and indeed, he has saved lives. And you dont need to take my word for that, people who have been on the podcast thanks to him who he found, charities that he rose awareness of, issues he rose awareness of, issues he rose awareness of, issues he rose awareness of that was then picked up by other institutions, by other individuals, has been brought aid to those people. Sojournalism and i speak as one, it is an often derided profession often with good reason. But david was somebody who represented The Very Best of our profession and indeed The Very Best of british and was an enormous Loss Forjournalism and indeed i think for the company and the country and the western values we hold dear. Thank you very much for sharing the story of David Knowles who has passed away at the age of 32. Its a tough time for you and of course your colleagues at the telegraph and we pass on our condolences, thank you very much indeed. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk, from Lake Como in northern italy. Im stephen sackur. This is the venue for the ambrosetti forum, a gathering of international politicians, where this year, the conversation keeps returning to one simple question who will win the us president ial election in november, and what will it mean for global geopolitics . Well, my Guest Today has strong opinions on that matter. He is republican us senator lindsey graham, one of Donald Trumps closest allies on Capitol Hill. He is all in for team trump. But are americas voters growing weary of the former president . Senator lindsey graham, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. Senator, why has the Replacement Ofjoe Biden with Kamala Harris, on the democratic side of this president ial race, why has it knocked the Trump Campaign so badly off balance . I think it was a. Its taken a while for them to get their sea legs, but i think theyre good to go now. I thought he would be replaced. You know, we were all saying, as republicans, the guy is not capable. Hes in decline. And all of a sudden he leaves. You know, itsjust switching up candidates that late, it took a while to absorb that, but i think hed be ready. This coming tuesday is the debate, and i think itll be probably the most consequential debate maybe in a long time, if not ever. You talk about the way in which, for so long, the Trump Campaign was built around the idea that Joe Biden was too old, he wasnt competent. Yeah. Right, right, right. Theres a big problem now for trump, isnt there . Hes the old guy. Hes 78 years old. And people looking at him right now, and the way he is responding to questions on the campaign trail, they are now asking questions about his cognitive abilities. Yeah. I think you see in polling that people see hes fit for the job. What hes going to have to do now, in my view, you know, were running against someone who is just not really capable in the eyes of, like, 70 of the people. Right now, you see, you have No Doubt that shes capable, you know, in terms of intellectual ability, i dont think thats going to be a problem for trump. Well, hang on. So, i mean, Donald Trump repeatedly has called her dumb, not an intelligent person. Yeah. Are you saying he needs to drop that . Well, you know, i think you cant be a senator, Vice President , Attorney General if you dont have something going for you. 0n policy, i think her policies are bad. So they want this insult contest. You know, the whole Democratic Convention was not about what theyve done for the country, but, you know, an attack on trump and just fluff about policy. My advice is, dont take the bait. Start talking about what happened when you were president versus what theyre doing. Just one more question on. Questions now about trumps capabilities, his capacities. Back in the summer, before biden withdrew from the race, you argued that both Biden And Trump should take cognitive tests. Do you still believe that Donald Trump should take a cognitive test . Sure. Im fine with Donald Trump. If he wants to, he can. I always thought biden was diminished. I never have thought that about trump. And you see it in the polling. Nobody believes that trumps not capable. The question is, is he the right pick . And thats what its going to be about. And theyre trying to make it about trump. And what trump ought to be, in my view, be making it about policy. Theres a big problem for the republicans in that you are a party divided right now, arent you . I mean, there are some extraordinarily senior, influential republicans who simply will not vote for Donald Trump. They think he is too dangerous to the republic, the latest of which is former Vice President dick cheney. Yeah. When he says that, it matters. Im not so sure. I think thats sort of built into the cake. You know. Dick cheney . Yeah, i like dick cheney. Yeah. One of the most staunch conservatives in the united states of america who says he cannot, will not vote for trump because he is a danger. I Cant Think of any other republican that i know of who will change their vote. You got the Brother Of Walz saying hes 100 against tim walz. I dont think that matters a whole lot. Dick cheney. You got high profile. Like, Robert F Kenneder is now supporting trump. I didnt see that coming. And that may matter some. So time will tell. Yeah, i mean, on the republican side. Its a strange election where you have the kennedys supporting trump, and the cheneys supporting harris. Its a bit of a weird time at home. But you are a house divided, and some of the people who know trump best. Were always a house divided. Yeah, but some of the people who know trump best, and im thinking now of mike pence, again, saying, i cannot in good conscience endorse him. Anyone who puts himself above the constitution of our country should never be president. Are you telling me that american voters will pay no heed to that . Yeah. I dont think its going to matter a whole lot. Robert F Kenneder might help with that segment of the libertarian section of the country, i dont know. I like mike pence. I like all these people. But it didnt stop him in the primary, i think. I dont know who pence is going to vote for, but i can tell you this its a toss up election. I really dont know whos going to win, but i wouldnt trade places with the other side. Yeah. Lets just look at the pitch the Trump Team is now making to win this election. It seems youre going to double down on the idea that Kamala Harris is, to quote Donald Trump, a communist. Do you think american voters are going to buy that . Yeah, i think shes one of the most. Rather than saying maybe communist, the most liberal person to ever seek office by a major party, i believe that completely. Shes for reparations. The Green New Deal would destroy the fossil fuel economy. Medicare for all destroys private Health Care for millions of americans. Yeah, i think shes taken the most radical positions that could be taken by a member of the united states senate. And, yeah, i think shes definitely the most liberal person to ever be nominated by a major party. Absolutely. Senator, im sure youd agree, truth telling matters when it comes to looking at your opponents campaign, right, and their offer to the american public . You in the Republican Party are not telling the truth about Kamala Harris on a whole range of subjects. Like what . Like, for example, you are accusing her of wanting to ban all fracking across the united states. Yeah. She has made it absolutely plain that she now, whatever she said five, six years ago, she now will not will not impose a ban on fracking. So why say something thats not true . Why did she change . Politicians change on all sorts of things. Yeah, but why . For political reasons, right . Because its not popular. It was popular at the time. Shejumped on the Green New Deal, which eliminates Fossil Fuels very quickly. Which eliminates fossil its like a 90 Trillion change in our economy. Why did she get on the bill . Who is she trying to please . Why is she getting off the bill . Because its a dumb, stupid idea. No, i dont believe for a minute shes changed. She says, my values havent changed. What are her values . To declare war on Fossil Fuels. No, i dont believe her. I believe shell push a very radical environmental agenda. Her values havent changed. Thats what she said. The democrats in power, Biden Harris, theyve created almost 16 Million newjobs. If you look over the span of the last few decades, as Bill Clinton pointed out at the Democratic Convention, democratic administrations have created jobs, republican administrations have not. Thats the truth. Well, heres the truth. 65 of americans believe were going on the wrong track. When trump left office. If you would just address my point, senator. Yeah. No, thats not true. Bill clinton didnt. Thats not true. Weve created a lot ofjobs. With the greatest of respect, the figures are quite clear. Theyve been independently analysed. Why do people believe the countrys so off track . Why do people, consistently over 60 , believe the nation is going in the wrong direction, in terms of the Economy And Security . Because the policies are not working. With respect, senator, it may be because people like Donald Trump, and with the greatest respect, yourself, twist the facts, do not tell the truth about what has and has not happened under the watch of Biden And Harris. Or it may be what the democrats are saying doesnt resonate with the average person because theyre not living what theyre saying. When trump left office, gasoline was 1. 87 a gallon. Its gone up dramatically. Mortgage rates below 3 . We had the lowest illegal crossings at the border in a0 years. Inflation is eating peoples pay cheque alive. Weve had Ten Million illegal immigrants come into the country raping and murdering people. People do not believe the policies are working. Theyre living the consequences of disastrous Policy Choices. Inflation is down, as you well know. Its been over 5 . You accuse Kamala Harris of being soft on crime. In california, she was criticised for being too tough on crime. And the fact is, and again, facts matter, violent crime and murders across the united states have gone down during the Biden Harris years. I dont buy that one bit. But, again, its difficult to conduct a conversation if you wont accept facts which come from official us government agencies. I dont accept the fact that america. Along the border is chaos. Youre telling me that these Border Communities are safe . Go to one of them. Go tell the people whose families have been raped and murdered by illegal immigrants, things are fine. America is not buying what youre saying because its not true. I guess, on the migration issue, which clearly you and the republicans are going to run hard with over the next two months, there is one problem for your party, and that is that it was your side of the congress which blocked a bipartisan effort to pass the toughest crackdown on border security. I was in the gang of eight. Ive been involved in three major efforts to reform immigration comprehensively. The reason i voted against the bill, it didnt have any changes to parole. Theyre paroling into the country 30,000 people a month from four countries, i believe illegally. Parole can be used for an individual situation, not large groups. So thats why i didnt vote for the bill. Let me quote to you, the republican senator, your Colleaguejames Lankford of oklahoma, who worked very hard to draw up this. Yeah, hes a good guy. Good guy. Good guy, you say. Great guy. He was so involved in this bipartisan effort to get tough on border security, he said this is, the bill that was brought up, a crucial moment after three decades of inaction to decide whether we are going to do Something Or Nothing to fix the border. The truth. And again, its about facts. The truth is, your party opted to do nothing. No, thats not true. Thats what the democrats say and thats what youre saying. I was actually there. I voted on the bill. The truth is, i tried to put a limit on the number of people who could be paroled into the country when, um, during biden. Excuse me, 0bama and trump, about 5,800 people a year were paroled in. During the biden years, its been almost A Million people. Its being abused. Thats one of the magnets that attract people illegally. We could never get my democratic colleagues to put a cap on parole. Therefore i voted no. Senator, the polls are tight, particularly in the crucial swing states. But where they are not tight is when it comes to americas women, where right now Kamala Harris has double digit leads. 16 , i think. Yeah. Do you accept that the Republican Party and Donald Trump have a serious Women Problem . Theres definitely a Gender Gap thats been there for quite a while. I think hes up 9 with men, down 16 maybe. It always hovers around this, Up To 20 at times. And why do you think that is . Uh. Bottom line, i hope we can convince american women that if you want prosperity and safety, youve got to change policy. If you think were on the wrong course as a nation, youve got to pick new people to do different and new things, and remind them of the trump years, where we had lower inflation and more secure. The world was not on fire. We didnt have any wars. I think thats the way to go. But at The End of the day, all the states that really matter is margin of error. Georgia is coming our way, i think. Governor kemp is helping trump now, and that will be helpful. But i want to stick with the women issue. What we have seen is, for example, Jd Vance talking about what he calls childless cat ladies, miserable in their own lives, and they, he says, want to make the rest of the country miserable, too. Weve seen Donald Trump Reposting On Social Media disparaging comments and jokes about Kamala Harris and her sexual past. Do you think its time that the two of them stop disparaging women . Well, i think our party. I think President Trump is doing well as a candidate tied with a very. In a contest of a divided nation. But my question was, is it time for Trump And Vance to stop disparaging women . Is it time. . Is it time for them to stop disparaging Trump And Vance and belittling President Trump as somebody hes not . Its probably time for us all to act better. But this election is not going to be decided based on words. Its going to be decided based on policy and action. If i may, and we talk about policy, perhaps the key policy when it comes to settling many womens votes is abortion. You are an advocate of a nationwide ban on abortion. Donald trump says he wants to leave it where it is right now with the states. Right. It looks like the Republican Party is confused. Ok, so basically the polling is pretty clear. At 15 weeks, about 65 to 70 of people would limit abortion. Thats my position. President trump let the states decide. I support the exceptions. Its not going to determine the outcome of the race, in my view. Really . Yes. Given what weve just said about where women are today in terms of the polls. Yeah. Youre16 points behind. Clearly, women do not like the republican stance on abortion. Its just not because of abortion. I dont. I havent looked at the cross tabs. Im here to tell you that were not going to lose the election because we want the states to do it. They would allow abortion Up To demand at 2a weeks and beyond. Thats the chinese position. Thats the North Korean position. Thats not. Less than 20 of americans want to have abortion in the eighth and ninth month. Yeah. Lets talk about one other important sector of the voting public. That is minorities in america. Im thinking about black voters, latino voters. When biden was still in the race, there was some clear evidence that trump was making some inroads into both those votes. Right. Those inroads seem to have been lost since Kamala Harris. She has consolidated the base a bit. Trump is still doing better than most every republican i know of with hispanics and african american men in particular. But she has stopped the bleeding. You talk to trump quite often, dont you . Yeah. A couple of days ago. Yeah. What did you say to him when he started to, it seems, question Kamala Harriss own racial identity . When he said, you know, she makes a turn. She wants to be known as a black person. Is she indian . Is she black . I dont know. Did you tell him to back off his questioning of her own identity . I said her philosophy, her ideology, her governing principles are, i think, the best way to differentiate yourself. Thats what i said then. Thats what i believe now. A contest of comparing what policies are best for lowering inflation, who is best able to keep the world from being on fire, made us energy independent, is the winning way forward. Americans are hurting financially. Right. So thats what i would do. I get your point. So when you hear senior colleagues of yours in your party describing Kamala Harris as The Quote Unquote Dei candidate, as though shes some sort of token, that shes only there because of the colour of her skin, what do you say to those colleagues of yours . I dont think thats appropriate. I dont think it works. But its happening, senator. Yeah. Well, yeah, one guy fro