Wealthy, at that level, so concerned about that. Rachel maskell is with me now. She is a Labour Mp. Why did you abstain and why did you not back the measure . I abstain and why did you not back the measure . Abstain and why did you not back the measure . I could not Su Ort back the measure . I could not support a back the measure . I could not support a measure back the measure . I could not support a measure which i cannot have this on my conscience. I have to look my constituents in the eye as i have constituents in the eye as i have over constituents in the eye as i have over the last few weeks, and they have over the last few weeks, and they have been pleading with and they have been pleading with me and they have been pleading with me to do something to protect with me to do something to protect them, and i will continue to do this, that is why continue to do this, that is why i continue to do this, that is why i have abstain, to maintain the whip why i have abstain, to maintain the whip and to make sure i fight the whip and to make sure i fight on the whip and to make sure i fight on for the litigations which fight on for the litigations which did not come today but Will He Which did not come today but will be coming because we cannot will be coming because we cannot Go On without keeping People Cannot Go On without keeping People at risk so we have got to put People at risk so we have got to put the Mitigation Measures in piace~ to put the Mitigation Measures in lace.. to put the Mitigation Measures in lace. ,. in place. There was no sense to date really in place. There was no sense to date really that in place. There was no sense to date really that the in place. There was no sense to | date really that the government thinks it is going to make a u turn, and Liz Kendall was talking about encouraging more pensioners to take up the pensioners to take up the pension credit. Absolutely. There was pension credit. Absolutely. There was not pension credit. Absolutely. There was not anything pension credit. Absolutely. I there was not anything which has been there was not anything which has been given so far but we continue has been given so far but we continue to campaign and that is what continue to campaign and that is what the role is, to have the is what the role is, to have the discussions, because it is about the discussions, because it is about housing costs, which pensioners are also having to wrestle pensioners are also having to wrestle with and the price of food wrestle with and the price of food as wrestle with and the price of food as well. We need to make sure food as well. We need to make sure People are warm and sheltered and fed this Winter and putting support in for older and putting support in for older People and protecting them, older People and protecting them, it is notjust older pe0ple them, it is notjust older People and we know across society, People and we know across society, i People and we know across society, i have had babies in in a85 society, i have had babies in in a85 as society, i have had babies in in A E as well. Winter bites hard in A E as well. Winter bites hard and in A E as well. Winter bites hard and that is why they were not get hard and that is why they were not get through the Winter without not get through the Winter without additional support, and i without additional support, and isay without additional support, and i say gently to ministers that they i say gently to ministers that they need to do serious thinking. Social prescribing has been proven to be very effective has been proven to be very effective elsewhere. Has been proven to be very effective elsewhere. That would mean lower effective elsewhere. That would mean lower energy effective elsewhere. That would mean lower Energy Bills effective elsewhere. That would mean lower Energy Bills for mean lower Energy Bills for those with low incomes . The ener those with low incomes . The energy companies those with low incomes . The energy companies could make a greater energy companies could make a greater contribution and it does greater contribution and it does not have to be all on the state does not have to be all on the state because they are making Nrillions State because they are making millions of pounds of profit and millions of pounds of profit and they can contribute to keeping and they can contribute to keeping those People wrapped in theirjumpers and duvets warm. What theirjumpers and duvets warm. What about the principle of Means Testing, are you against that completely . The argument for Liz Kendall is that theres not much money to go round therefore we have to target it at those who really need it and there are very wealthy pensioners who do not need this money, so where do you stand on the principle . The principle . There are many eole the principle . There are many peeple who the principle . There are many People who receive the principle . There are many People who receive the the principle . There are manyj People who receive the Winter Fuel People who receive the Winter Fuel payment that do not need it but Fuel Payment that do not need it but the Fuel Payment that do not need it but the more progressive way of dealing with this would be putting of dealing with this would be putting this into taxation so those putting this into taxation so those with the broader shoulders pay more but also looking shoulders pay more but also looking at how you can schedule and target more support around People and target more support around People on and target more support around People on low incomes, with tiasic People on low incomes, with basic pensions, because it is an opt basic pensions, because it is an opt in basic pensions, because it is an opt in scheme, and it is hard an opt in scheme, and it is hard to an opt in scheme, and it is hard to capture all of those People hard to capture all of those People that need it, and that is why People that need it, and that is why the Winter Fuel payment provides is why the Winter Fuel payment provides the protection for everyone and we should be bringing everyone and we should be bringing back a bit more for those bringing back a bit more for those People. Is bringing back a bit more for those People. Bringing back a bit more for those People. Is there credible wa to those People. Is there credible way to encourage those People. Is there credible way to encourage more those People. Is there credible way to encourage more of those People. Is there credible. Way to encourage more of those hard to reach People to actually claim what they are entitled to because other governments have talked about this but it seems quite difficult, do you think Liz Kendall has come up with a solution . Kendall has come up with a solution .. solution . You will increase the numbers during solution . You will increase the numbers during the solution . You will increase the numbers during the Uplift Solution . You will increase the numbers during the uplift of i numbers during the uplift of the Housing Benefit so we are targeting more People, and i think targeting more People, and i think that will be successful but we think that will be successful but we will not get to 100 , and but we will not get to 100 , and there are complex reasons, and there are complex reasons, and i and there are complex reasons, and i mention People with dementia, People have pride about dementia, People have pride about applying for these things, as well, so the principle of universalism is important but then how we distribute the wealth of the country distribute the wealth of the country is even more important. And the country is even more important. And the huge inequalities have ot and the huge inequalities have got to and the huge inequalities have got to he and the huge inequalities have got to be addressed. We have ot got to be addressed. We have got to got to be addressed. We have got to he got to be addressed. We have got to be on a mission to address got to be on a mission to address the People in poverty, we have address the People in poverty, we have a address the People in poverty, we have a job of work to do and im determined to be part of the Labour Team which puts a solution the Labour Team which puts a solution in place to do that. Are solution in place to do that. Are you solution in place to do that. Are you disappointed that all of these years without a Labour Government, Theirfirst Act of these years without a Labour Government, their First Act was to bring this in . Were you surprised, disappointed . A, surprised, disappointed . A surprised, disappointed . A surprise because it was not in the manifesto and then concerned because i could see where concerned because i could see where this would go for The Party, where this would go for The Party, and we have not put the country party, and we have not put the country before party and that is what country before party and that is what we committed to do. I hope is what we committed to do. I hope there is hard thinking going hope there is hard thinking going on in Downing Street so that in going on in Downing Street so that in future we make sure that that in future we make sure that we that in future we make sure that we understand the risks of policies that we understand the risks of policies and consult heavily and policies and consult heavily and ultimately protect People that really need a Labour Government to protect them. T Hat Government to protect them. That is government to protect them. That is one of the other criticisms, this came out of the blue, the Impact Assessment and a lot of conservatives say, where is the Impact Assessment, bringing something in where we do not know the consequences. They should have been an Impact Assessment published so we could assessment published so we could scrutinise it and also the could scrutinise it and also the Social Security Advisory Committee should have done diligence on the measures before diligence on the measures before they came up for debate, so bring before they came up for debate, so bring this forward when the committee is going to be sitting committee is going to be sitting tomorrow is premature. The debate continues because it will he the debate continues because it will he in the debate continues because it will be in the house of Lords Tomorrow will be in the house of Lords Tomorrow and there will be an interesting debate in that place. Interesting debate in that place, may be more People are tuned place, may be more People are tuned to place, may be more People are tuned to where pensioners are, but also tuned to where pensioners are, but also making sure that the scrutiny but also making sure that the scrutiny is on these measures as Well Scrutiny is on these measures as well and there is much work to he as well and there is much work to he done as well and there is much work to be done but we have to be conscious to be done but we have to be conscious that those People who are missing out now on the protection do need the government to step in and provide government to step in and provide the resilience which they provide the resilience which they will need to keep them warm they will need to keep them warm this Winter. They will need to keep them warm this Winter. One internal a warm this Winter. One internal party question. Warm this Winter. One internal party question. You warm this Winter. One internal party question, you abstained | party question, you abstained on this, have you been told that you will not be suspended from The Party . Have you been giving reassurance . Giving reassurance . Normally Eo Le giving reassurance . Normally People have giving reassurance . Normally People have conversations. Giving reassurance . Normally People have conversations ifl People have conversations if that People have conversations if that is People have conversations if that is the direction going but i that is the direction going but i have that is the direction going but i have not had any of those conversations and i have been clear conversations and i have been clear about my perspective, and i clear about my perspective, and i have clear about my perspective, and i have set clear about my perspective, and i have set out this as a matter of conscience, keeping People warm of conscience, keeping People warm is of conscience, keeping People warm is what the Labour Party was warm is what the Labour Party was elected to do but also it is what was elected to do but also it is what we are here to do as politicians, speak truth to power politicians, speak truth to power without Fear Or Favour and power without Fear Or Favour and i power without Fear Or Favour and i have done it over this issue and i have done it over this issue and and i have done it over this issue and i trust i will not have issue and i trust i will not have to issue and i trust i will not have to have those conversations again. Rachel maskell, conversations again. Rachel maskell, thanks conversations again. Rachel maskell, thanks for conversations again. Rachel maskell, Thanks Forjoiningl conversations again. Rachel i maskell, Thanks Forjoining us. The view there from one Labour Mp who felt she could not back this proposal and they will have been others. We will try to find out but as it stands the measure has gone through and so one of the first policy announcements made by this government has gone through, and for the wider approach to the economy we have got to wait to The End of october and the First Budget from Rachel Reeves. w , First Budget from Rachel Reeves. w ,. First Budget from Rachel Reeves.. ~. reeves. Quickly, we do know that one mp reeves. Quickly, we do know that one mp did reeves. Quickly, we do know that one mp did vote reeves. Quickly, we do know that one mp did vote against| that one mp did vote against the government on these Winter Fuel payments, one Labour Mp with 53 People not abstaining, although some of those could have been away on official business, but the official Working Majority has gone down. How long would it take to find out how many are actively abstained and how many were unable to vote . Haste abstained and how many were unable to vote . Unable to vote . We have to seak unable to vote . We have to speak to unable to vote . We have to speak to all unable to vote . We have to speak to all of unable to vote . We have to speak to all of them unable to vote . We have to speak to all of them to unable to vote . We have to speak to all of them to find | speak to all of them to find out, that is the truth when it comes to looking through the numbers, because the government has such a huge majority, even if several have not supported it, it has still gone through in big numbers, but it then it becomes about the atmosphere in The Party and the Run Up to the budget, that will be a huge moment for Rachel Reeves, and the keir starmer, some of the other measures they will want to bring in, so there is a lot of pressure being put on Them Ijy of pressure being put on them by the unions and by Labour Mps and i think because the proposal was announced in isolation and it was the first big announcement that was made, it has got a lot of attention over the summer and now into the autumn and it affects millions of People. So that is why it has drawn so much attention and that is alongside the fact that the government can pretty much get through what it wants, it is not like when we had these wafer thin majority is, but there will be concern in Downing Street about the strong feelings that People like Rachel Maskell have. Iuticki like Rachel Maskell have. Vicki younu , like Rachel Maskell have. Vicki young. Thanks like Rachel Maskell have. Vicki young, thanks for like Rachel Maskell have. Vicki young, Thanks Forjoining us. We will get more reaction from you later. Another piece of breaking news, a coroner said there is no Causal Link between there is no Causal Link between the appearance of the portsmouth man Steve Diamond on the Jeremy Kyle Show and portsmouth man Steve Diamond on theJeremy Kyle Show and his death, at the coroner ruled out his treatment on the Talk Show as a Contributory Factor. Steve diamond was found dead in May 2019, week after a Lie Detector Test during a recording which showed he had lied about cheating on his partner, seemingly. Duncan, can you explain what the coroner has said... said. He put into context the whole story. Said. He put into context the whole story, and said. He put into context the whole story, and he said. He put into context the whole story, and he went. Whole story, and he went through fax of the week long inquest begin with the events that took place in May 2019 when Steve Diamond appeared on thejeremy when Steve Diamond appeared on the Jeremy Kyle when Steve Diamond appeared on theJeremy Kyle Show in order to take a Lie Detector Test to prove he was not cheating on his partner. The show was never broadcast and we have played clips of it during the course of the evidence here and it showed Steve Diamond failed the Lie Detector Test and became very emotional, so to his partner, and Jeremy Kyle was doing his presenting, accusing Steve Diamond of lying, it was all very emotional. And then we also heard that a week after taking part in this programme, Steve Diamond was found dead at his home in portsmouth. The coroner to date has effectively ruled out a link between Steve Diamonds appearance on the Jeremy Kyle Show any subsequent death and he made clear that Steve Diamond had a long history of Mental Health Problems and he said we heard during the evidence that he had taken a Drug Overdose on at least four occasions and had been sectioned at least once. His appearance on the show was not a Contributory Factor to his death, and the coroner said Steve Diamond new theJeremy Kyle Show and knew what the style of presenting was like. The coroner said, there is an absence of reliable evidence that demonstrates that Steve Diamonds appearance on the Jeremy Kyle Show probably caused or contributed to his death, and to do so would be speculative, and he went on to say, im not satisfied that events on theJeremy Kyle Show gave rise to a clear link that caused or contributed to the death of Steve Diamond, such that i should be recording this is a Contributory Factor. So essentially, he is separating the programme from the events that happened after that when within a week of the recording of the tragic death of Steve Diamond took place at Up Reaction from Jeremy Kyle, and a representative on his behalf has said, he is now exonerated of the ill informed accusation and his name has been finally cleared. Lawyers for the family of Steve Diamond came out and gave a short stat