Even though they know the president is wellknown known as someone who is supportive of a border wall and more aggressive taxes on immigration. Charlie and we continue looking at the situation in north korea with david sanger, David Ignatius, nicholas burns, and lionel barber. There are a lot of things that the u. S. Government could go do. Some of them overt, some of them covert. They all suffer from the same problem, which is while the war plan and all of the times they have war gamed this, you have the u. S. Winning. In the interim, you may well have huge or casualties along the way. It is something that president obama attempted including a Cyber Program against the missile launches. Ssile failures, and then it seemed to stop working. Most of the big missile launches theyve had this year for the longrange, they appear to have gone along pretty well. So one of the difficulties with cyber is it is hard to get inside, and even if you are inside, it is good to know that its working. Charlie and something we have just begun, called an archive moment. Henry kissinger on north korea. Mr. Kissinger i think a better someould be to send private emissaries to the chinese and say, here is our notion of the evolution of the region, if things continue as they are. Clash by military somebody is inevitable. Charlie the president s decision on daca, experts weigh in on north korea and a moment with Henry Kissinger when we continue. Charlie we begin with this. The Trump Administration has said it will end daca that Obama Era Program that grants temporary status to undocumented immigrants brought to the uss children. Jeff sessions announced the decision this afternoon. Attorney general sessions the program known as daca that was effectuated under the Obama Administration is being rescinded. The daca program was implemented in 2012 and essentially provided legal status for recipients for a renewable twoyear term worker authorization and other benefits including participation to mostly adult illegal aliens. The policy was implemented unilaterally to great controversy and legal concern. After congress reject did legislative proposals to extend similar benefits on numerous occasions to this same group of the legal aliens. The executive branch, through daca, deliberately stopped to saw to achieve what the legislative branch was physically refused to authorize on multiple occasions. Such an openended circumvention of immigration laws was an unconstitutional exercise of authority by the executive branch. Charlie today marks the first day back for members of congress after their august recess. With several legislative deadlines looming and the problem of Hurricane Harvey, the senate and house are faced with a heavy september workload. Joining me from washington is robert costa, the moderator for Washington Week cloak Washington Week on pbs and a political analyst for nbc news and msnbc. Welcome to the start of fall, bob. Great to have you back. Mr. Costa great to be with you, charlie. Charlie what were the pressures on the president . What were his instincts and why did he make the decision he did . Mr. Costa it was such a revealing decision by the president to choose to delay making a decision. A man, a candidate, politician, and now a president who revels in being this decider. He decided to punt the decision to congress, to let republicans on capitol hill decide the fate of 800,000 mostly younger immigrants who came here and were protected under the obama era executive action. We see a president , charlie, who is grappling with his base, who is who wants purity, wants results, and his instincts and advisers, they want to show the Republican Party as more compassionate as appealing to hispanic voters even though they know the president is well known as someone who is supportive of a border wall. And some more aggressive tactics on immigration. We see a president trying to navigate all these different forces and interest. Charlie and clearly in the context of what you said, his reference to children. Mr. Costa that is exactly right. The president s aides tell me that he has wrestled with this for months. And it is different for the president because on immigration, hes seen as wholesale on the right wing of the Republican Party, except for this issue of dreamers. And because of the president s reluctance to move forward in an expected way, it has created a vacuum in washington, where now Congressional Republicans and democrats think they can start to craft a revised daca policy. The deferred action for Children Program established by president obama. If they can keep thousands of these children and young adults and adults here in the United States, charlie, this goes back many years to President Trump. He said long before he was a candidate that he is sympathetic to the view that the dreamers who came here as children and teenagers are not responsible for the mistakes of their parents, but we are seeing this juxtaposition, charlie. Givesessions on tuesday, this hardline press conference at the Justice Department saying no one can just come to the United States, that dreamers are here unlawfully. You have the president remarking to reporters, striking an entirely different and more compassionate tone. It presents the administration with a challenge moving forward. They are at a political crossroads. What is this administration really going to do with the dreamers . Will it let Congress Come up with a solution . Will he sign that bill, or will he let it expire . That is the choice. Charlie what is his relationship today with congress . Mr. Costa it is an uneasy relationship and its only gotten worse over the summer. Weve seen the president clash with leader mcconnell and he has continued to have somewhat of a frayed relationship with paul ryan. Andthey are adding daca immigration policy to the pile. Trying to extending the debt limit, trying to get a budget passed before the government is set to shut down on september 30. Trying to deal with tax reform and so many other issues that have really begun to pile up here in washington. But the Republican Leadership, they want to act on daca and immigration policy. They think even the even though President Trump is a hardliner, they want to make sure they appeal to hispanic voters and that is why they will try to come up with a solution. Maybe not september, but this fall. Charlie john mccain said today the choice to eliminate daca is the wrong approach to his immigration policy. That is the view of the mccain wing of the party. As a reporter, my response to senator mccain would be, lets wait and see. Because, though the president announced tuesday he would phase out daca. There is little clarity about what the future of this program will be. He keeps saying congress should decide and when Sarah Huckabee sanders was asked what that means, to let congress decide what does it mean the president will do . She does not have an answer because it means the president remains torn. He continues to be this hardliner, but he also has the community and his own family saying you dont need to go that far on the dreamers. Charlie now that steve bannon is out, tell me about the factions within the white house. Mr. Costa when it comes to steve bannon, he may be formally outside the white house, but he is still talking to President Trump by phone. Im told by several people close to President Trump. He represents the breitbart element in the Republican Party who wants no compromise when it comes to immigration policy or trade policy. Though bannon is gone, those voices remain very powerful in this fractured washington. But they are not the only voices. Sometimes bannon is seen as this overpowering presence. And he is a major presence, but the republican establishment controls congress. The Business Community is in tight with the republican establishment, and democrats are increasingly seeing new leverage because they know the republicans have all these different objections in september, and they are going to need democratic votes. They are going to look for the Democratic Leaders to make some request if they want to get those votes. Charlie have they spoke in to the Democratic Leadership in a while . Mr. Costa they have been in close contact, i am told. There have been many discussions behind the scenes. Democrats have said to republicans, if you want to address daca, you better do it as part of must pass legislation. Republicans and conservatives dont want to do that and mash all this legislation together. But democrats say if you want our help, you have to do it our way. One of the big negotiating point this fall, in particular this september, is going to be how are all of these legislative aims will be cobbled together. What will be attached to what in order to get the necessary votes . Charlie what will happen to the debt ceiling . Mr. Costa the Administration Says it wants a clean debt ceiling. I think you are going to see the debt limit extend. The president has said he wants to keep the markets from overreacting to some kind of standoff. The conservatives in the house the House Freedom caucus is still saying they dont want to attach the debt ceiling to relief for Hurricane Harvey in texas. They want to have a standalone vote on the debt ceiling so they wont have to be forced to pass it and have the texas vote tied to the debt ceiling. How this all figures itself out is going to be a real test for the Republican Leadership and President Trump. Can they navigate these competing interest and get some things done . Charlie is there alliance between the Freedom Caucus and steve bannon and Breitbart News . Mr. Costa in fact, steve bannon met with mark meadows, the North CarolinaRepublican House member on monday right before congress came back this week to try to walk through how bannon and breitbart and the Freedom Caucus can truly be a thorn in the side of the Republican Leadership. If you see those kind of alliances starting to form, which they are, that means what objectivesour are for mcconnell and ryan will be scrambled. If you have steve bannon eating the drum every day, saying the Republican Leadership sold them out. The president is being sold out by his own party. These dynamics make it messy for the gop. They want to do all of these things, but it remains a split party. Charlie steve bannon says he is going to war with mitch mcconnell, the republican establishment, wall street and Silicon Valley. Costa the bannon element of this is important because its also driven by his own personal experience in the white house. Bannon saw up close how jerod kushner, the president s soninlaw, and other moderates were pushing the president on daca. To make sure they didnt just let the program end, to let Congress Figure out a solution. Bannon was appalled with this side of the white house. He thought immigration was the issue during the campaign. To somehow walk away from that hardline stance would be of the a betrayal to the voters who lifted trump to the white house. You see him now working from his office at breitbart, seething, in a way, that the republican Republican Party is bringing this administration. The distinction is bannon is going to war with the Republican Party, not with president. If that ever turns, if that dynamic ever changes, it will be real chaos in washington. But for now, bannon is trying to tow the line, stay with trump, and go to war with the parties. Charlie wall street and Silicon Valley, everywhere he believes they are resistant to the populist movement. Mr. Costa that is right. Because if you are in Silicon Valley right now or wall street, i have talked to people there, im sure you have as well they are somewhat happy with the possibility that stability could happen in washington. They could extend the debt limit cleanly. They could pass a budget and avoid a shutdown, and they could try to protect the thousands who are beneficiaries of the daca policy. Maybe even cut some tactics taxes. That is the optimistic view of Silicon Valley. With bannon gone, baby trump and maybe trump and kelly can move in a more centrist direction, i am told that is the hope of jared kushner, as well. Again, looming overall is breitbart, bannon, a Republican Base that wants daca and dreamers to be deported. They dont want to see some kind of compromise. Thisch as there is expectation that stability can come to washington, too many things are on the plate right now to have that the a realistic expect tatian. Expectation. Charlie bomb costa, thank you for joining us. A pleasure to have you as we begin this new fall season. We will be right back. Stay with us. Charlie on sunday, north korea carried out the sixth and most powerful nuclear test it has taken to date. The country claims it marks the First Successful detonation of an advanced Hydrogen Bomb. The move is considered a major step forward to reach the mainland with a nuclear attack. U. S. Ambassador to the u. N. Nikki haley said pyongyang was begging for war during a session an emergency session of the Security Council yesterday. She urged the council to have the strongest possible sanctions to teacher deter kim jongun. Vladimir putin questioned the effectiveness and warned of a potential global catastrophe. Joining me from washington, david sanger, David Ignatius, columnist for the washington post. Nicholas burns of the Harvard Kennedy school. And pliable and lionel barber, editor of the financial times. I begin with david sanger. Tell us about this test and the implications about its bigness . David charlie, we dont know if it was a Hydrogen Bomb. There are many stages to getting to a Hydrogen Bomb. The best guesswork ive heard from american intelligence officials and from outside experts is that this was some kind of a boosted explosion. Which means they are on the pathway to a Hydrogen Bomb. And that it was probably about six to 10 times larger than the previous detonation they have been able to accomplish. Which is to say it is probably six to 10 times larger than the bomb the United States dropped on hiroshima in 1945. So, politically, im not sure it makes that big a difference. Whether it is a Hydrogen Bomb or not, the message was that come the sixth test, like many near powers for them, Nuclear Powers before them, the North Koreans have solved many of the biggest physics problems. They are now capable of detonating a weapon that could destroy a large american city. It doesnt mean they can deliver the weapon into a large american city. People are still wondering are not whether they can fit this, as they have claimed, into a warhead or if they could make it survive reentry into the atmosphere. But if they cant do it now, they will be there pretty soon. Charlie David Ignatius, what are the implications of this . Mr. Ignatius that they have this very large ive been hearing 10 times the previous detonation of theirs, very large bomb, in addition to showing their technical expertise, they i think tells you they are aiming for a kind of city strike capability that, as the theorist think about this, would be there way of venting the u. S. From following through after an , atial regional conflict u. S. City would be hold hostage held hostage. It is a sign they are really not backing off. The other thing that strikes me is that this nuclear test and the last two missile tests follow a very deliberate effort by secretary of state Rex Tillerson to open the way for some kind of dialogue with north korea, to signal the u. S. Willingness to discuss a range of issues. Tillerson went through a series of promises. We wont seek regime change or send troops north of the 38th parallel. Down the list of north korean demands. So in the face of that, fairly forward leaning american posture, you have to see this is a real rebuff, a real slap in the face of a diplomatic solution. Charlie what do you think of what Vladimir Putin said today and what the chinese said . A lot of posturing from the russians and chinese. But there is no question this is heading towards the new and dangerous phase of the crisis with north korea and for President Trump, he has got to go back to what he did so well in the cold war. He has to Deter North Korea from ever using these weapo