App at the center of the storm. Meantime, travel as we knew it is over according to airbnb ceo brian chesky. He sat down with us for a wideranging and rare interview. To worldd the pandemic war ii. Tankdid teens on tictoc attendance at President Trumps rally in oklahoma over the weekend. Andrew yang will join us to talk about that and the future of the biden and drum campaigns, plus his latest initiative to get Tech Companies like facebook and google to pay you for your data. First, a check of the markets. Stocks rising despite concerns about a resurgence of the virus in different parts of the country. Walk us through the day. You had all three major averages closing higher by 0. 6 or more. Seems to be there consensus that the virus is nowhere near over but there also seems to be consensus that it will not entirely derail the recovery we are seeing. Small caps also were up by about 0. 5 excuse me, 1 . They have been really kind of a proxy for the recovery story, given that they are more domestically focused. You did see, for example, the safe haven asset of gold back up near a sevenyear high. It is not all in on equities. You are still seeing protective options near the surface. More of a defensive sector in particular in that it was technology really leading the gains today. Make cap tech heavyweights were leading the charge. The nasdaq composite index closed at a fresh record high. The best winning streak in all of 2020 already. Zoom, stocks like netflix, pellet gun, companies that have been in a fitting from the work from home trend. Why the new momentum today . Investors dont think that the economic recovery will be derailed but maybe people will not be too eager to venture back into office world, zoom, pelletflix, gun. All three of those stocks closed at record highs today. Emily apple shares ending the day up. Big announcement that they are moving from intel to apple chips. How did investors view the changes that apple made today . Kailey the stock ended at a record high, up nearly 3 despite the fact that there was a little overhang. The apps were getting regulatory scrutiny in the u. S. As well as in europe. Investors seemed to be focused more on things they liked hearing, perhaps those processing chips upgrades to ios exciting them, plus the fact that big tech was rallying in a big way. Microsoft, amazon, they hit fresh record highs. Above 1ns well trillion. 1. 55s valuation is now trillion. Emily kailey leinz, thanks so much. We will be speaking with one of those developers who was pushing back the base camp email. Meantime, sticking with apple, dramatic changes to the home screen of the iphone since it was a veiled into thousand seven. Tim cook also starting to be wdc on a more somber note, talking about racism and social injustice. I want to discuss the topic of racism, inequality, and injustice, and recognize the pain being felt across our nation after the senseless killing of george floyd. While the events of the past month are sadly not new, they have caused us to face longstanding inequalities and social Justice Social injustices. A new apple announcing Development Conference for black developers and they have committed millions of dollars to fighting Racial Injustice. To talk about the other things apple unveiled today, i want to bring in julie forrester, principal analyst. Good to have you back with us. Is this big a deal change . Apple moving away from intel chips, moving into its own chips. What does that mean for the overall ecosystem . It gives them more control over the product, services, experience and to end. That capability and talents that, why not control more of the product . It gives them more flexibility. Developers however need to be on board. Developers are going to have to make fresh apps that will work across all apple devices. What has been your take on the pushback about this 30 cut that apple has taken from the products and Services Sold via the platform. Do you think that right now there is Something Different happening . I think there is Something Different happening on at least two dimensions. On one hand, the sale of a onetime game or one time app, 1. 99 is one scenario. I think where you probably see this tension is where you are selling a subscription, service, content, and that feels like a better cut. Then i think if you look into the future, as more banks, education, Health Care Providers begin to provide services over this platform like telemedicine, it becomes more worrisome to those in the future thinking, am i going to give 30 of my revenue to apple. Do you think apple is in any way losing ground here . I think the argument from developers is that in some ways it is consistent but in other ways, depending on the interpretation, a way that apple has enforce these rules is actually inconsistent . There is a lot of nuances in here. Just saying,ck everything sold through the app store, the same rules applied to everything. There are really differences here. In some cases, apple is enabling an economy or ecosystem that would not exist without them. In other situations, there is simply a platform, it is more of a Distribution Channel and more ofa commerce or marketplace third parties. When we think about the times right now, the growth a using mobile ads to use as platform is going to be ever more important. Sorting out the commercialization of this, the business role, certainly more than in the past. Pursuinge eu is now two antitrust investigations into Apple App Store as well as apple pay practices. Apple has called these investigations disappointing, saying they are advancing baseless complaints from a handful of companies that want a free ride. That apple wants to maintain an equal playing field. How big a risk do you think this antitrust scrutiny is from the eu and also the United States . I think it is very important for apple to triumph here. When you go back in history, the companies that knelt out a wire that built out a wirelesswher broadband infrastructure, they have not benefited in the same way as facebook, apple. The devices of the platforms become commoditized and they are left out of the upside and value that it generates. Emily what is your take on some of the other Software Updates that were unveiled today . A handwashing monitor for the apple watch . The ability to use the iphone as a khaki. Those as a car key. Bradley, you are seeing pretty dramatic changes to the overall look and feel of the software. Julie sorry, emily can you hear me . Julie yes, i can. Emily just one last question. I asked just your take on the overall Software Updates and how dramatic they were today. Julie i think they are very demandtec very dramatic and they show the design shops. If we look at what consumers are looking for as well as enterprises, they are certainly looking for more seamless experiences across the devices. I think more importantly and perhaps more subtle, their use of context to make these services more relevant to me, whether it is the content i want, the activity bars at the end of the day, the news at the beginning of the day. It was always known that mobile experiences in the future, or the interface would become more conceptual, acting on my behalf and doing it for me. Apple did a really good job today of balancing, we are using a lot more context and information that we have about you to simplify experiences but on the other hand, here are all the things we are doing to protect your privacy. I think it is a big step forward in terms of the experience and intuitive it will be. It is so easy to use, ages works, but there is a lot of engineering that goes into that. Toly julie ask, always good have your thoughts on the show. Thank you so much. Coming up, we will be talking about some of these developer issues a bit further. Will be speaking of the speaking to the cofounder and ceo of base camp, the email app that the app store rejected, but has since approved given some fixes. We will speak to the ceo, next. Later this hour, our founder with the airbnb ceo. He takes us into the darkest hours and how the Company Moves forward. This is bloomberg. I want a little more data. We are still a little early in this crisis for me to be clear on how this is going to play out. Apple kicked off wwdc amidst a backlash in developers, angry about the 30 cut that apple takes in the app store. Rejected aapple popular email app from the store. Its cofounder accusing apple of a shake down. Of base camp,cto the maker of that app, david hannah meyer hansen David Heinemeier hansson, joins us now. You have come into the weekend in a standoff with apple but they have approved at least one version of the app. How did that happen . David i sent out a couple of tweets late friday afternoon. Friday Night Company sent us a note back on the app store saying, we read your tweet, we are allowing it to be released, workingook forward to with you. We were excited that it was being released but apple made it apple,hat the vpn responsible for the the vp at apples comments to the press about how we could get an approval to the app store. We made those changes over the weekend. Thoseorning, we made changes for approval. The update, with ads which adds a free service to the app, so people can download the app and immediately use it for something, as well as an acceleration of our product, an extension of the same app. That is now pending approval. It has been in review this morning. Looking forward to hopefully getting that approval. Again, all the power is in apples hands. They can decide to essentially send us back to square one. Emily a lot of the contention is a 30 fee that you have to pay apple, which is part of their generally standard policy. This is something that you dont want to pay. If approved, would you have to pay that . David absolutely not. We drew a redline saying we will never sit it to a 30 shakedown of our business. That wesaid repeatedly will never do in app payments and we have held our ground on that. There are other things that apple has asked us to do that we will do for them. There are a lot of unwritten rules that we thought we were following. There is a new set, perhaps a , there is a new plan you can try it out with and have the app work for the multiuser corporate version as well. Give appler going to 30 of our revenue. We went so far as to explore all of the Legal Options we have. Even though we spoke with several law firms last friday about our case and most of them strong case,e a even if you win your case, you will be 10 years into the future. We really are at the mercy of apple here. Hopefully apple sees this as a wakeup call. Hopefully regulators see this, too. Apps like ours have to be on iphone and ipad to be competitive so we can really negotiate with apple. Apple sets all the terms and we are left to merely comply. I think we have spark up a storm here because we were perhaps one of the First Developers to say, no, you cant just come on and update and ask us for 30 of our revenue. That is unreasonable. We have heard from countless developers who said they have been shaken in the same way. Apple says they are trying to create a level playing , that they dont make any money for apple. You do speak to some developers ao acknowledge that this is cost of doing business for the yet you do have dropbox. Like netflix, the contention is the apple while has these rules and enforces them inconsistently. What do you think a better policy will be . Give first of all, developers the choice of whether they want to app 12 opt in for apples payment system. There are certain benefits. Apple already has Customer Credit cards on file. They make it extremely easy for customers to spend money. Outrageous. The Windows App Store charges 5 . Some of these Gaming Stores actually have competition that charge 10 or 12 . You can see what competition does. It lowers the price. We would not have opted into apples payment system. 2. 4 y between 1. 8 and process credit cards. We bring our own customers. We are not asking apple freebies or favors. We already pay apple for the right to publish on the ios platform. Apple charges all developers 100 per year which, today, goes quite a long way to cover basic things like traffic and storage. If apple wanted to charges a fee to get approval, we would be happy to pay that as well. The 30 is just outrageous and it cant be the deal that they forced down everyones throat. Emily speaking of regulation, the eu has opened two antitrust investigations into the app store come into apple pay. You have the antitrust subcommittee looking into apple. Take a look at what the chair of that committee, david cicilline, told us about what he viewed as apples app store policy. Thatis is very concerning use of the app store the users of the app store are being forced to pay a ransom of 30 or they are denied access to that marketplace. Google and apple arrive at the same thing, one third of the profit. That sort of market power is very disturbing. Of might have a percentage 2 or 3 . Even the credit card is not really competitive but it is 2 or 3 . This is 30 , highway robbery. This what is your take on antitrust group given that apple is not the most dominant mobile platform in the world, it is android . David they are part of a duopoly, and they share this with google. But, our product, a 100 per services, if you look at all the research into where north American Consumers spend, it is with apple. Apple has the lions share of that marketplace. They already have a monopoly position within that. This is highway robbery. I testified in front of this committee in january on this exact issue. This was well before we had any heat from apple on this issue. I was listening to developers. This is not right, this is classic antitrust splitter to vent abusive behavior. And it needs to be stopped. I am glad that chairman cicillines commission is looking into this. It just so happens that the crazy timing was that the day we got denied from apple was literally the day that the eu announced its investigations. It is high time that apple is being investigated for their antitrust abuse and hopefully something good comes of that. We are just trying to survive in the meantime. If the firefighters show up to our business 3, 4 years from now and apple kicks us out of the app store, we will have burned to the ground. That is not what i want for our employees. That is not what i want for our customers. Emily quite a metaphor. Apple has opened up ios as of today, to thirdparty mail apps. That . S your reaction to david there are so many things here, but the timing does seem incredible. For two years, we have invested millions of dollars into development. For all this to come together in two weeks is incredible. I am glad to see that. Apple makes great products. Fan for 20 an apple years. They do great things with privacy, they do great things with their products. We are developers. We want to make apples platform better. 1. 55 trillion, and in the letter of rejection to us, we told them, you have not been paying us for eight years. Where is our money come on, apple. We are making this platform for you. Developers are what made the monopoly you enjoy and profit from. David the timing certainly is something. Founder and coceo David Heinemeier hansson. And cto David Heinemeier hansson. Coming up, andrew yang today unveiled a new project to get americans paid for their data. People join us later in the show. Also, his thoughts on tiktok us ers potentially taking trumps rally. Cheskyrbnb ceo brian takes us through the darkest hours through the pandemic. Emily welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. A fraction of the crowd expected showed up at President Trumps rally in tulsa, oklahoma over the weekend. Tictoc andt teens on korean pop bands on twitter scooped up tickets for the event with no intention of going. For more on this i want to bring former predental Campaign Manager for john mccains campaign in 2008. He is also a Bloomberg Contributor and has worked for several republican president s going back to ronald reagan. What is your take on this . I think we are seeing the newest group of people to use twitter to influence an election. It is an Exciting Development and something a lot of people are talking about today. The vaunted trump social media operation that set records for participation and attendance over the last three years got totally cracked. Im sure they are spending a lot of time today at trump headquarters on how to try to figure out to keep this from happening in the future. Emily how big of a miscalculation is this for the Trump Campaign, which has expertly used social media to be fair, now getting outsmarted by the various platforms they themselves have exploited . Rick i think there are two things happening. One is the k pop and twitter trolls influencing the reservations they got which were as they described, the trump Campaign Manager said were over one Million People had rsvped the rally. The other piece is when you boil it down they knew they were not going to get one Million People to attend. By their own estimate they had 60,000 to attend the rally in tulsa, oklahoma both indoors and outdoors. And frankly, less than 7000 showed up. So 1 10 of what they actually believed would actually attend the rally showed up. So there was a failure on the part of the teams who were setting up the rally. The venue overbuilt listing by a factor of 20. And then there was getting skunked on expectations built out in the press that somehow this would be the largest rally donald trump would ever attend. They missed on two occasions. Do not buildo fix, a rally stage until you know the people show up. The other is these people on social media claiming to be friends and bond of being pranksters, will be much more difficult for the trump people to figure out how to deal with. Emily that was my next question. These rallies are an opportunity for the cam