Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Bloomberg Surveillance 20240712 :

BLOOMBERG Bloomberg Surveillance July 12, 2024

Explosion. Welcome to surveillance. Inm yousef gamal eldin dubai. Of, the riskon strategies it, but there is an interesting picture that is emerging here, the talk of a u. S. Capitol gains u. K. Jobsx, showing numbers as negative as they came through. That is being taken in stride. Up one point 72 on the stoxx 600. Real estate lagging. Now on a german data. Treasury drifting into a volume. 10year yield into a twoweek ,. 005. Commodity currencies have been advancing, but you are in a narrow range for your g20 peers, and gold at the moment, we are 1995 announce currently. Thes get now to some of other key stories we are following for you with bloomberg first word news. Leighann gerrans has it all. Leighann good morning, yousef. The number of britons out of work has dropped from april to june, and the figures highlight the economic shock facing the u. K. That is expected to escalate as the government gradually starts withdrawing wage support. Seriouslysays he is considering cutting Capital Gains tax, saying it would not do enough to help the middle class, but now he thinks it could create more jobs. He could not cut the rates without congress, but something he could issue an executive taxes whenash investors sell assets. Lebanon government members have resigned. Protesters took to the streets to demand accountability for the blast. Little a public public, political elites for sabotaging his government. The number of Coronavirus Infections around the world has grown to 20 million peter took six months for the virus to hit 10 million. Double in just six weeks. Public Health Officials are also warning caution on a timeline for a vaccine, while one says the end of the year, early doses will likely be reserved for health workers. Global news, 24 hours a day, on air and quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. I am leighann gerrans. This is bloomberg. Yousef . Yousef leighann, thank you so much. Lets get to the latest on u. S. China tensions, and President Trump says he is not sure if he wants to make a deal with beijing ahead of trade discussions slated for this week. Pres. Trump we did a phase i deal, and it was a wonderful deal. All of a sudden, it means very little, that we will never pay for the lossoflife in our country and all over the world, so we are we view china differently than we did eight months ago. Yousef meanwhile, even as china continues to fire back at the trump administration, leaders in aijing are signaling conference for the election. I look at the tit for tat and the measures that happen taken, and you can argue that the chinese appear to be trying to prevent things from blowing up ahead of the november 3 election, trying to be the adult in the room. Definitely. You can see how china wants things to improve, and you can see how the white house and probably even democrats in america both want to appear tough on china going into the election, so i expect medevac will stay strong. I dont expect there to be a massive change in relations, but i do think there will be a lot of soundbites about trump wanting to be tough on china, and they will be continued things like we have seen. Right now, there have been some executive orders, like we have tiktok,th wechat and things like that. They do not really have an impact on u. S. China trade as a whole, on specific companies they have an impact. These executive orders have been deliberately vague, some taken to the extreme, tencents entire business could be strained if u. S. Could not Sell Semiconductors to it, if apple wechat things, like this, push to the extreme, could be found to be very material. But it is pushed to the bounds of what is possible. Yousef it seems to me you would immediately recoil if you are Holding Stocks like tencent, because, as you said, it is pretty much front and center of this spat between the u. S. And china. Run me through some of the wider thinking behind it play like tencent and at times where the tensions are highest. Patrick we have held tencent for a number of years. You have seen what has happened with Technology Companies as they reported their q2 numbers, so we expect a very strong quarter. We think that will matter much more to tencent than soundbites from the white house, so we dont think extremes occur. Wechat not being able to be used for u. S. Citizens does not change the bottom line or the top line of tea set of tencent. Basically, wechat is being used by citizens of china to can indicate with their family and china. We think the more extreme measures will not be put in place, and earnings will drive the stock market than basically u. S. China tensions right now. Yousef a note coming through on the bloomberg as we waited for the numbers on the italian bond sale. ,he 10year has now been sold and that yields dropped 0. 9 to 0. 4 , and that is critical, because it is actually the 21. St yield since february just to stay with the china theme as well for the moment, patrick, maybe keeping the italian 10year and might as well, from across asset perspective my is there anything you would say is interesting when it comes to china, when it comes to the asian emerging markets opportunity . Patrick well, we are sort of shying away. China has not been the best performer this year, but after the s p 500, it is the best major stock exchange. It has performed well. The economy recovered from covid quicker than other economies, because it basically entered the crisis earlier than other countries. But i think going into the election, i would not want to be adding risk in china, just because that rhetoric is going to be an ever occurring event until november 3. I do not think there will be a massive change on actually what happens in terms of policy, but the soundbites, i think, i think are going to be a bit of a headwind for stocks in china. Yousef we have learned about gambles of cutting exposures in some of the gold plays because of the valleys it has had and the doubledigit gains we have seen. Subscribe to the story that we lock it in until the globe were the global picture becomes a little more clear . Patrick we are Holding Golden will not be selling it anytime soon. We have about 7 . If you look at debt to gdp of the g7, it is going to hit 125 . And when you get to those kinds of debt levels, you have to make difficult decisions. Do you want to increase taxes and go through austerity to cut that . In an environment of populism, that is not palatable to anyone, so the much easier and the and game for all Central Banks and governments are debasing their currencies, parenting the money to pay off printing new money to pay off old debt. It is up 24 versus where it was last year, even in the 1980s, when there was very high inflation. M2 is growing at 18 at most. Central Bank Policies are explicit. To suppressng Interest Rates, and you want to have real assets, so gold is not going to make you rich, but i think it is going to preserve your value. Gold companies have actually not been issuing equities, either. I think they are much better than they were in the past. I am not too worried about my gold exposure. I have got a lot of momentum about it. There may be some air pockets, but over the longterm term, it will be higher. Yousef crossborder would agree with you. They are calling for 3000 an ounce, driven by liquidity, not so much real rates. Patrick armstrong up Plurimi Wealth stays with us. Coming up later in the program, we will be talking to mike wells, the ceo of prudential. We will talk about the companys results and talk about how the business has handled the pandemic. That will be the bigger picture, of course. This is bloomberg. His is bloomberg. Yousef economics, finance, politics. This is bloomberg surveillance. I am yousef gamal eldin here in dubai. Speedget you up to with the Bloomberg Business flash. Leighann gerrans has it all. Ann a result of the court battle in the states, the judges ruling will not be the last word in the matter as the Ridesharing Companies are going to appeal. If the companies have to reclassify their drivers, they would be on the hook for overtime, health care, and other costly benefits. , derail its a plan unification plans. Italys the proposal submitted itshe opposition proposal submitted by the opposition would oppose plans to unify headquarters here in london. And now, apple is more valuable than ever, and so is ceo tim cook. According to the bloomberg billionaire index, he is now a billionaire. He never had a huge stake in apple. Most of his wealth comes from equity awards he has received. Since joining apple back in 1998. I gave him a longer road to joining the Billionaires Club than peers jeff and mark zuckerberg. That is your Bloomberg Business flash. Yousef . Yousef thank you so much. Lets talk about the Coronavirus Infections, because the numbers now top 20 million, and that is the latest sobering milestone as the pandemic wreaks havoc across the globe. The first six month of the virus extended in china, the first six month, doubling in six weeks. Hardhit states including new york, california, and texas, they have actually been reporting falling hospitalizations. Still with us as Patrick Armstrong from Plurimi Wealth. Patrick, as you listen to the kinds of indications we are getting from the u. S. Presidency on a potential payroll income tax tax cut, rather, is that going to be enough to make a meaningful dent, as you say . Stimulus is fiscal the name of the game, and republicans and democrats have not been able to agree on payroll taxes, things like that, so executive orders, whether they are put through, is a bit of a bandaid. I suspect both sides want to spend almost as much as they can. Democrats want to spend 3 trillion, republicans want to 1. 5d 1 trillion to trillion dollars. Economies are not under complete lockdowns anymore, but there are regional restrictions. You still have curtail travel, curtailed leisure, things like that. There is a massive amount of unemployment, too, so you have 12 Million People that do not have jobs that had jobs in january still come even though you have seen 8 million jobs added over the last few months. The u. S. Consumer, Global Consumer needs the stimulus. It looks like it is going to come. I still think i would want to be putting my money into banks, into heavy industrials with a lot of debt. I think theres going to be continuous output gaps in the global economy, and i fo preferred quality and growth over cyclical companies. Cyclical companies have had a big rebound over the last few days, but i think the longterm Winning Strategy remains the yeartodate winners over last weeks winners. Yousef you say you prefer quality tonight i look at some of the moves in the market, the rally is unstoppable almost, the yields now close to record lows you have your spread with Investment Grade that has been narrowing. Even if you go for an additional perspective. Do you see an opportunity in some of the Investment Grade names . Patrick actually, we have been holding Investment Grade names since march we moved all of our treasuries into Investment Grade bonds, and they were yielding 4 , 5 , 6 , but they are yielding less than 2 now, which is the lowest they have ever gotten to on Investment Grade. So i am not really thrilled with Investment Grade bonds as i was a few months ago, just because the yield has really come in. We have been going up the risk factor a little bit. I dont like banks on the equity sides of things. Capitalization is still relatively strong in the banks, and 6 yield on an equity versus 6 yield on the bond, i would prefer the bond over the equity from that perspective, because i do not think there is much upside on the dividends. That is one subset of credit that we do right now. The equityterms of plays, you point to some of the tech giants and, arguably, the worry here is that there are some corporates that are seeing a lot of interest from investors. They are crowded spaces, and they have really offset the performers in the wider index, right . Fascinatingy been to watch. How do you mitigate that kind of risk . You are still very strongly in favor of that, all right you . Patrick i think it is a function of Interest Rates. In 2018, august of 2018, we were actually sure the russell 1000 globe because we were in a backdrop where powell was hiking Interest Rates them and the future growth of these companies you have to discount at a much higher rate. Powell has done a complete 180, from hiking Interest Rates to making Interest Rates 0. Forever, itn place looks like. [laughs] q2 earnings as much as present earnings, so he has allocating the capital earnings, and we are staying up for it, versus the cyclical impaired earnings over the coming quarters. Yousef patrick, it has been great catching up. I really enjoy the discussion. Patrick armstrong, the cio of course at Plurimi Wealth. Still to come, could a second wave of bankruptcies beyond the horizon . Lazardse hearing from peter orszag next. This is bloomberg. This is bloomberg. Peter we have been through a massive first wave of restructurings, and i think that the second wave, which i believe will come, really depends on what we were just talking about, that many of the weaknesses at Many Companies have been disguised or hindered by very significant government support, as it is withdrawn, or even if it is not continued at the same rate. The pressure on many corporates will become more manifest come and i personally, unfortunately, think that we will see another significant wave of bankruptcies across Corporate America as that plays out. Reporter so as an investment banker, people want to talk about the work you are doing with corporate alliance, but there is some significant advisory work, lebanon being one, argentina being another. Can you explain what you are seeing for sovereign debt . What kind of demand do investors have to invest in countries that have these issues related to the pandemic, but all of these other addon issues that are arriving as well . Patrick look, what is happening in many countries, some of them are clients that you mentioned, had preexisting conditions, if you will, that have been exacerbated by the pandemic, but for a whole other set of countries, the pandemic is causing a lot of physical pressure, just like it is here, and we are seeing a substantial increase in the federal deficit. Rather than declines, you need additional spending to help cushion the blow from the pandemic, and the result of that has been a significant increase in public debt, and unfortunately, for many sovereigns across the globe they are not in a position to handle that additional debt, and that causes a debt crisis, as it were. We are having some promising signs about creditors and governments coming together in argentina, ecuador, and elsewhere, to Reach Agreement to deal with these problems before and become outright crises, we have to see whether that spirit of cooperation can continue into what inevitably will be other sovereign debt problems over the next year or two. Reporter but the issue of more sovereign debt arising, how you view the countries and much weaker positions . What becomes of the United States as our debt levels start to swell . The office is, out today with a report that is more than double that it was last year, which is not surprising. We are running a fiscal experiment, but it is one that we have to run, because the alternative of not providing support to the economy during, you know, to offset the impact of the pandemic would be much worse. Longlastinge damage to the economy, so, yes, increasing debt to the United States, but that is ok. Reporter peter, you also have a birdseye view of how Corporate America is reacting to a lot of these tensions that are being created between the u. S. And china. What is a chief concern to your clients right now . Peter well, the relationship with chinas complicated, obviously. I would say of the Technology Space in particular, you are seeing a lot of tension, much more rapid deterioration in the relationship, and what many people have called the Technology Cold war. In other aspects of the relationship, we need to remember that the relationship with china is much bigger than what you read about in the newspaper or on bloomberg, where the flashpoints are. Most of the flashpoints are in technology. That has been building for a while, and it accelerated over the past several months. There are Many Companies that are concerned about the implications. We will just have to see how this plays out. Yousef that was peter orszag, the ceo of the financial azard,ry at lasered, l speaking exclusively to bloomberg. Coming up, the government in lebanon resigns after the blast in beirut. This is bloomberg. Experience the ultimate sports hub. Where you can find games, news and highlights. All in one place, right on your tv. The xfinity sports zone. Use your voice to search every stat and score. Follow the teams you love. And, even get notifications with breaking news alerts and more. With the xfinity sports zone everybody wins. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Say xfinity sports zone into your voice remote today. More voluminous hair instantly. All it takes is just one session at hairclub. Introducing xtrands. Xtrands adds hundreds or even thousands of hair strands to your existing hair at the root. Theyre personalized to match your own natural hair color and texture, so theyll blend right in for a natural, effortless look

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