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effect that is seen on the border with the biden administration policies and with the trump policies, and they would tell you that the net effect is this same. it has led to migrants been stuck on the mexican side waiting and shelters in squalor conditions and dangerous conditions. i've interviewed women who have been raped. they have been extorted on the mexican side, waiting to who cross either to the us, sayyed or because they're waiting for their us case to be handled. but they're waiting on the mexican side. and so the net effect i would say that these immigration advocates would point out, they would say that it's the same, even though president biden is trying to distance himself from former president donald trump jessica rosa. >> thank you so much for that report from the border. obviously, a very sober assessment of what all this means. let's talk now with lead lr, who is the deputy director of the aclu immigrants