In a special breaking News Coverage continues now. The third criminal indictment of former President Donald Trump. Im erin burnett in new york. And im laura coates in washington, d. C. This indictment is like nothing weve ever actually seen before in history of this entire country. And looking at it In Black And White is absolutely extraordinary. It begins with this, everyone. Quote, the defendant, donald j trump, was the 45th president of the United States, and a candidate for reelection in 2020. The defendant lost the 2020 president ial election. And as you say, laura, it begins that way with those simple words, he lost. That is a fact. But of course the person who had sworn to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution, instead tonight is accused in this 45page indictment of trying to overthrow Americas Free and Fair Elections in an attempt to stay in power. It has been 1001 days since the 2021 election exactly. It has been day since the very sixth attack on the capital. It is now, though, and only now that donald trump has been indicted on four criminal counts, conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights. Its extraordinary to think about that being on the screen. Of course that being a former president of the United States, this is now the third criminal indictment of the former president. And by the way, thats just this year alone. Its also not about hush money. This is not about the classified documents. This one is about a threat to our democracy. Listen to what counsel jack smith had to say about tonight. The attack on our Nations Capital on january 6th, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the scene of american democracy its. Described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant, targeted at obstructing a Bedrock Function of the u. S. Government, the nations process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the president ial election. Lets take a step back, everyone, for a moment here, and lets begin with what we have actually learned tonight from this historic indictment. New justice Correspondent Evan Perez actually at the courthouse in washington, d. C. Evan, another historic indictment against former president. Walk us through exactly what is being alleged tonight. The former president obviously stands now as the first ever president to be indicted for crimes that he committed while he was in office and that is what we have here in this 45page indictment, these four charges stem from what the former, what the prosecutors said on jacks mitt said was essentially three conspiracies, all of them built on a web of lies that the former president , along with his coconspirators, who are not named here but we are of course have identified them simply because we have been reporting on everything that has happened since january six in the efforts to overturn the election. And one of the most important parts of this is that this indictment, in this indictment, the special counsel jack smith says that the former president knew he had lost the election. He knew that these were false claims about voter fraud. He was told, they list all the different people in the former president s own government, from his Vice President , from his former attorney general, from his acting attorney general, from his head of homeland security, people who were there to secure the elections. His intelligence community, his white house counsel. Everyone was informing him that these claims were false, and yet he persisted in listening to people like Rudy Giuliani, who is listed in here. Hes not named, but we have identified him as coconspirator number one. John eastman, former lawyer who was helping him to come up with this fakelt plot, helping him also come up with idea that mike pence could overturn the Election Results. One of most important things of this, though, in this indictment, is that they clearly say that like every american, the former president had the right to say that he had lost the election, he had a right to challenge the results. He had a right to lie. What he did not have a right to do, according to jack smith and the prosecution here, if to engage in these conspiracies with his codefendants. And what they say is, its conspiracy to defraud United States by using dishonesty, fraud, and the seed to impair, obstruct, and defeat the unlawful federal government function, which is to certify the results of the election. They also say he was a conspiracy to Corruptly Obstruct and impede the jeremy six congressional proceeding. A ceremonial proceeding. And then a conspiracy against the right to vote, denying the right of americans to have their vote counted. Laura . Evan, its striking every time you think about that, it almost reads that one paragraph you around prancing like, your home tune opinion but not your own facts. Evan perez, thank you so much. Erin . Lets go to Christian Holmes because you new jersey, just a few moments away from long trumps golf club which is where he is now. And kristen, i know youve been reporting various phone conversations, including one with elise stefanik, talking about gop response. So he has been busy tonight. What has the reaction been, as you have been hearing it, from people around him as this new indictment, the news of it, the details of, it are sinking in . Well, its exactly what you would expect. They are painting this political, its something they have been doing since the beginning. They really feel at this point that they have some ground to stand on. Thats because of recent polling that shows that donald trump is still leading in the primary. It shows he could likely be the nominee and that this is political. But of course as we know, donald trump likes to play things on the court of public opinion. Early tonight, talking to kaitlan collins, when the lawyers laid out what might be their legal strategy. Our focus is this is an attack on free speech and political advocacy. Theres nothing more protected under the First Amendment and political speech. So at the end, our defense is going to be focusing on the fact that what we have now is an administration that his criminalized the free speech and advocacy of a Prior Administration during the time that there is a political election going on. And aaron, i want to make one thing clear. I dont know if this lawyer is going to argue some trial, if there is a trial, but part of this is putting it into the public narrative, saying that this is why the biden doj is bringing this and that is what trump wants. They want to be convincing voters that that is why this is happening, not because donald trump has committed any sort of crime. So whether or not this is actually a legal argument that could hold up in trial, that could hold up in a court of law, it really is not what we are looking right now. Theyre watching response to this as they try to get voters behind him. And as ive been reporting all night, when i talk to these voters on the, road they are behind him. I have heard a number of voters saying that they believe it is a two tiered Justice System. They believe what he is saying. And again, looking at those pools polls from earlier in the week, it is clear that some republicans or some voters are standing behind donald trump, something to keep in mind as we talk about how unprecedented this is, and we talk about how historic this is. This is a man whos running for president for the third time it is leading the field in the primary in the state. Absolutely. Were gonna speak to one of those people running against him, will hurd, the former congressman, in just a few moments. Thank you, kristen. Laura, it is amazing, though in the context of this history making indictments, you still have a country in the latest polls split 40 3 43 in terms of biden versus trump. It is pretty incredible to think about that. Theres even the fundraising. It seems to be a feather in the cap of this person who was running. And still a presumptive frontrunner. I want to bring in my panel in washington d. C. , starting former Trump White House lawyer jim schultz. The lawyers in the room have been champing at the bit ever since we heard. We were in the room green room like what, what was the argument being made . Youve been a former Trump White House lawyer. What is your reaction to the fact that this indictment is here, its in full Black And White . Its very thorough. Its very smart. Its very careful. And ill start with careful. Its careful in that they took the First Amendment issues, addressed it, got it off the table. The address the issue of he has this right to free speech, you can say a lot of things, when he cant do is conspire to overthrow the election. He was very smart in that it kept the coconspirators out of the indictment. I think thats very smart because what it does is signals that donald trump was in charge of this and Everybody Else was being used as his tool to accomplishs goal. I think thats the message they were trying to sand when they left out those coconspirators. But is it smart, though, from the actual Defense Council . We dont know thats gonna be the lawyer. We have seen how this goes, the idea, we have people on in the be like oh, theyre not no longer there, but on the front of the First Amendment and the political speech, it seems to be, from the lawyers perspective, that look, every kind of speech is protected, and this is an example of the weaponization based on political speech. Do you buy that . I dont. And i dont think the jury is going to buy it. I think the way that they crafter this and said yes, he has the right to say whatever he wants in the political realm. He does it all the time. But what theyre saying here is you cant conspire with others to lighten people and lied to folks to get them to overturn the outcome of an election, lie to the electors, essentially lie about Everything Associated with that election. Norm is bursting at the scenes. Well, laura, as you know, i used to practice law with john laurel. He has to say something. How do you defend this egregious conduct in this massive document . So of course youre gonna say First Amendment, but there are limits. I cant go to the bank and say stick a mop, give me all the money in the cash drawer, and say First Amendment, you cant prosecute me. Defamation to, right . Then he says yes. Then he says his second argument wise advice of counsel, eastman was one of the most preeminent my clients a businessman. No. These arguments that eastman were making where bizarre. They were off the wall. Look constitutions let mike pence what march in there and suspend. I agree with him wholeheartedly. The constitution does not permit my pants to go in and do those things, and he did the right thing by coming forward and said no im not gonna do it. When he said he wouldnt do it the president went out and tweeted that he said he would do it. I might need some ice skates, because these two agreed wholeheartedly. Hail has burst open. [laughter] climate change, fyi. The First Amendment argument, as you said, is perhaps unlikely to work in the court of law. But in the court of public opinion, especially in republican primary, i see it being very potent. Why . If you look at the other things hes accused of, lets take the maralago documents, donald trump is always positioning himself as i am the one standing between the deep state, the democrat and, you. They really want to come after people like you. On the moral Largo Documents they want to prevent people from Keeping Documents in their bathroom. Thats a little harder to make that case. Is if they had classified status. A lot of republicans feel strongly that they are not allowed to say things that they believe to be true. And its not just about 2020 election, whether its covid and its origins, whether its all sorts of stuff about social and political issues, they believe im not allowed to say listen to scientists and they come after me. The taps into an emotional argument that Many Republicans will say yes, im with him. I travel a country all the time, in Many Republican voters view themselves as a pawn in an overall political gain. Its not just democrats they dislike and distrust. Its a republican establishment that they dislike and distrust. To that very salient point, donald trump, for them, is their final arbiter against this entire political mechanism that is against them, these elites, these highly educated individuals telling them how they should live their lives, telling them whats best for them. But wait, whether its true or not. And they believe those things as being fundamentally offensive to them, and in many ways a violation of the very freedoms. And donald trump in a very unique an interesting way has presented himself as the only individual who is standing up for them. Whether that may be true or not, theres a reason why 65 of americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. Look at the approval between trump and biden, 41 approval of joe biden right now, 43 approve of donald trump. Thats why theyre in a statistical tie, 43 to 43. But do you know why this whole issue, among the republican primary, the whole First Amendment thing, the whole, you know, trump base, they feel like they are the ones that everyone else is going after, its because no one else in the republican primary has had the guts and the backbone to say donald trump is wrong, to say donald trump is not the leader that this country deserves. Look, i heard earlier on our air, governor, New HampshireNew Hampshire governor Christopher Noon and, so he was concerned about this indictment because it was very clear, everything that you said james, but it was also very simple. The simplicity of what he is laid out is so very clear for anyone to understand. And i think his point was, look, this will absolutely continue to be fodder for the republican base, especially the maga base. Everyone whos words donald trump. But governor sununus right. Youre not going to have independent suburban women going to say oh yeah, now im Gonna Support donald trump even more. Everyone, great point. Stick around, we have a lot more to talk about, a lot more to unpack. Erin . Laura, lets bring in one of trumps 2024 rivals, will hurd. Congressman, i appreciate your time. So here we are, 45page sweeping indictment. You just heard laura speaking to the former Trump White House lawyer jim schultz and he was saying he thought it was very well and very strong so what sort of stands out to you now that youve had a chance to look at it . I think its real simple, its not about the weaponization of the government. This is not about the people that serve our grand juries in washington, d. C. This is about donald trump losing the election, trying to use Everything Possible within his power to overturn an election, failing to accomplish that, and theyre now running for reelection so that he stays out of prison. This is, its real simple, we need to recognize that he needs to be held accountable, and everybody who is sick and tired of donald trump, were not gonna see donald trump go away because of these legal cases. He needs to be beat in a primary, and yes, hes a presumptive nominee, the elections are 25 weeks away, there are more people that would rather not see donald trump as the republican nominee or on the ballot ever again. Those people are the ones that have to get activated, vote in primaries, and thats how were gonna solve this problem i do make the argument, congressman, to Republican Voters . Obviously the majority of Republican Voters dont think that trump is gone anything wrong. It is consistent. I pointed out earlier, because it really stood out to me, only about half of independents in the latest polls agreed that trump has done something illegal. Only about half of independents. And they are not even voting in your primary. How are you going to convince your voters . Find, it can be as detailed and full as possible, but what moves the needle here . Well, National Polls are different than local polls. Polling is different than voter i. D. When you start Drilling Down in a place like New Hampshire, there are significantly more people that dislike of donald trump than like donald trump and, in a place like New Hampshire, 40 of the votes that are going to vote in a primary are unaffiliated voters. These are people who take the responsibility seriously, and are engaged. Elections always tighten the closer you get to the election, and the case to be made is to actually show up and talk about this and show that youre not afraid. This is what the gop needs, we need somebody whos not afraid of donald trump, but is also articulating a vision. It is hard, dont get me wrong, it is hard. It is just not complicated and it requires work and effort and requires activating a group of people that are going to vote in that primary that have not traditionally voted. There are examples of being able to pull this off and we just need folks who are willing to do that and, if the folks watching today want to see me on th