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Collins starts now. Straight from the source, a first move by one of trumps codefendants in georgia. His former Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, now seeking to move the prosecution against him to a Federal Court in hopes of getting it dismissed. Will it work in well see. As for trumps next move, its a lot like his previous ones. He is now claiming finally he has the evidence to prove the election was stolen when he has filed to do so for nearly three years. Also tonight there is growing desperation and frustration being felt throughout hawaii a week after the Deadly Wildfires broke out. People are still missing. Fires are still burning. And families are still waiting for word on their missing loved ones. Im Kaitlan Collins and this is the source. Tonight we are learning new details following last nights indictment including on where donald trump will likely be surrendering. The Fulton County Sheriffs Office says that he is expected to be booked at the Fulton County jail. The big question tonight, of course, is still when. The Sheriffs Office said in a new statement that it is expected all 19 criminal defendants named in the new indictment will be booked there. There are ten more days for this group to voluntarily turn themselves in. The jails open 24 7. The Sheriffs Office says they can come whenever they want. In the meantime, trump is focusing on proving claims that he has been making without basis for nearly three years now. The former president is now promising to finally reveal evidence next monday about his Election Fraud claims. Maggie haberman has reporting on whats behind those socalled plans. And shell join me in just a mo moment. Its important to note, though, trumps claims have never been proven in any venue or any courtroom. Thats something that the Georgia Governor Brian Kemp noted today after trump teased that News Conference saying, quote, the 2020 election in georgia was not stolen. Meanwhile, trumps attorney turned codefendant Rudy Giuliani weighed in today on when he expects to turn himself in. Ill pick a day next week, try to work out the conditions of bail. There has to be bail. Im anxious to fight this case. I woke up this morning more excited than i have in weeks. He said why . Because ive got a fight on my hands and a justifiable one. Were going to beat these fascists into the ground. Im the same Rudy Giuliani. I havent changed one bit. Except he has. He is now on the other side of the law that he used to Jail Mobsters as a federal prosecutor. Meanwhile, mark meadows, trumps former Chief Of Staff, is now the first of the codefendants to try to get his portion of the case moved from a state court to a Federal Court. His legal team is now arguing tonight that charges in the indictment pertain to actions he took while he was serving in the white house and they intend to submit they say at a later date why the case against him should be dismissed under federal law. Im joined tonight by Maggie Haberman of the New York Times also the author of Confidence Man the Making Of Donald Trump and the breaking of america. Maggie, i mean, trump i feel like weve seen this movie before, where he is promising to finally reveal something that he has been teasing, especially the Election Fraud claims that have never been borne out. But you have new reporting on whats behind what were expecting to see on monday. So jonathan swan, my colleague, and i reported earlier today that aides and allies of trump woke up this morning several hours after this indictment was filed accusing him of trying to subvert the 2020 election as part of a conspiracy to discover that he had posted on truth social saying he has a major News Conference on monday where hes going to release a report. Now, that report in question turns out to refer to a document crafted or, you know, created at least in part by Liz Harrington, a Trump Communications aide, and it refers to georgia and it is going to address what she is i think and whoever she was working on it with, was widespread fraud. Now, we know those claims have been debunked over and over and over. Brian kemp, the states governor, again tried to denounce this today and say the election was not stolen, lets move on. The reason the presence of Liz Harrington is interesting is that she is connected to a key scene in the Documents Indictment Where Trump is waving around according to prosecutors a classified document, or a secret document as he refers to it, that he acknowledges he could have declassified as president and she is one of the women quoted in the recording of that, we have been told by multiple sources. Whether this actually happens remains to be seen. So the person who is named in one of the other indictments that is facing him is now helping him respond to this latest indictment. Correct. And it speaks to the way that world works right now. A number of the people who were around him either as advisers or as lawyers or you know, all kinds of other people are connected to these cases in various ways. They are witnesses in some cases. You know, Rudy Giuliani is clearly coconspirator number 1 in the federal indictment against trump related to january 6th and trying to overturn the election results, and he is indicted in georgia. And so it just creates this culture that weve just never seen before. There are so many codefendants listed in this new indictment, which immediately made me think of the concern that he has about the potential for them to i mean, theres a lot of opportunities for people to cooperate here. There are. And he is aware of that. And it is one of the things that i believe has concerned him about this indictment. Also the fact that it is in state court. It is not something he can control if he becomes president again, although i think theres an argument as to whether a state case would actually go forward against a sitting president the way this is. But yes, these are this is many tentacled. Its big. Its voluminous and theres a lot of allegations in it and there are a lot of people connected to it, not all of whom are in his direct orbit 37 thats the other thing to bear in mind. Yeah, the second half of that list is Coffee County officials who arent directly connected to him. Mark meadows is, though. And to see his name as i was reading through, reading mark randall meadows, just stood out. He hasnt been indicted in the other cases. Hes now the first one to try to say, well, i was just fulfilling my official white house duties and thats why hes trying to get it moved to a Federal Court here. Its an argument that i expect that former President Trump will make too, which is that they were acting under the color of their jobs and this is something that belongs in Federal Court because of that. Im not surprised to see meadows make that argument. Like you, it was striking to see his name in this indictment because his name has been at the center of this whole issue as its been investigated for the last 2 1 2 years but you are correct, he was not one of the coconspirators mentioned as best as we could tell who they were in the jack smith indictment. He has not been charged federally. He has been much less of a presence than we are used to around donald trump. And he is one of the people about whom i think the former president is the most concerned about what they may or may not have said. Certainly a lot of aides around trump are concerned about what he may or may not have said in various investigations. Also the questions of how that affects what jack smith is trying to do. Clearly if hes trying to use him. The other thing, just reading through the indictment, a lot of it is things that we knew that had happened, what they did. But also i was just struck, 12 of the 161, you know, overt acts as fani willis referred to them were trumps tweets. Yeah. And public and others were public statements. Yeah. I mean, this is look, we talked about this a lot with the tweets, that they were just things he was doing, there was that joke about i was about to write a story and trump just tweeted it out, right . I mean, this was literally they were planning all these actions and trump just tweeted it out. Their argument is going to be the trump teams, that this is free speech and that he had a right to say all of these things. And fani williss argument is that individual actions dont have to be criminal on their own but part of a broader conspiracy, which is what shes charged they are. It is why trumps aides and lawyers over a very long period of time wanted him to stop tweeting the way he did and would like him to do less truth social posting the way he is now. It just doesnt get heard the way it used to. But hes announcing ive got this huge Press Conference that as youre reporting, a lot of people didnt know about. One question i had last night thinking on this is how this affects what hes doing with the debate. I mean, before this we were told hes not going to hes not showing up to the debate next wednesday. But now that hes got this time crunch to turn himself in to actually show up in Fulton County do you think that could change the calculus at all that he has . He has two days until after the debate to turn himself in technically. I think that he is likely to stick to a plan. Theres been some discussion today about will this be like right after the access Hollywood Tape in october 2016 when he went to st. Louis to debate Hillary Clinton and that set him back on a path toward winning. But his whole campaign was riding on that debate as one former aide pointed out to me today correctly. Thats not the case here in terms of the primary. I think it could impact his impulse to defend himself. I still think its unlikely that he shows up. But again, its him. You never really know until he does or doesnt do it. Youve covered new york politics for a long time. Youve covered Rudy Giuliani for a long time. You have seen him go from this heroic figure to him today saying hes going to beat the fascists into the ground, i believe was the quote that he used. I mean, what do you make of the fact that the Racketeering Law he used to use to prosecute members of Organized Crime here in new york is now being used against him in Fulton County . For people who dislike Rudy Giuliani, of which in new york politics and among new york city voters there are many, they feel as if this is the ultimate irony. For people who really liked Rudy Giuliani and thought he was a good mayor, they feel as if this is a tragedy. It is surreal hearing him saying hes really excited about this indictment because i cant imagine that he ever thought it would be fun or engaging or a fun fight to be accused of racketeering. I mean, this is somebody who was a Renowned National figure for busting mobsters using a similar law, and that he has in a quest basically to be relevant, to stay around former President Trump, ended up here is very upsetting to the people who still care about him. Hes also running out of money. Cnn i dont know about running out. I think he may be out. Hes putting up his apartment here in new york for 6. 5 million in a sign of thats not going to end. He has more cases even just this week alone i believe when it comes to his law license and the comments he made in georgia. One of the ironies right now in the situation around donald trump is you will hear some of his advisers say hes really upset that rudy got indicted or leaning into this, he was really worried about rudy, but not so worried that he was going to pay giulianis legal bills. And this has been an issue over and over and over again. And people who are still close to giuliani will try to xwlam the Republican National committee or this former aide to trump or this person. This is trump. According to my reporting, it was trump who didnt want giuliani paid unless giuliani delivered on his promises. And obviously that didnt happen. Maggie haberman. Its never going to end. Well, something will everything will end eventually. But this part not right now. On that lighthearted note thank you so much, maggie. All right. From a Bail Bondsman to a former publicist for kanye west were going to look at the 18 others who have been charged alongside trump in the state of georgia. And four indictments, four jurisdictions in fourplus months. Is there a way out for donald trump . Well talk about that with legal analysts next. We never just see the numbers, we see the peoeople. My dad Started Trek In A Red Barn in waterloo, wisconsin. And now it spans the glo. You wanna take what was given to you and youanna build it. And you wanna passt along. If i can do that, i would have done well. Thats why were here. To help make it happen. How can you sleep on such a firm setting . Gab, mine is almost the same as yours. Almost is just another word for not as good as mine. Save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add a base. Shop now only at sleep number. Astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays take hours. With astepros unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go janet so much space . That open kitchen tanya oooh definitely the one ethan but how can you sell your house when were stuck on a Space Station for months . . . brian no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. janet nice intercom flightdeck, see you at the house warming. This is the reality for donald trump. Indictment after indictment after superseding indictment. The stack of legal problems keeps growing for donald trump. What is different here in georgia, the new indictment that we got last night, is the scope here. Its not just in the law but its also in the number of people that are involved. There are names you know, people you would recognize like trumps former white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows, the former mayor of new york turned personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, as well as other attorneys who you saw frequently on tv or around the oval office in the days after the 2020 election. But then there are other lives that have now been forever altered by their connection to donald trump in that time. Like the president of a Swimming Pool company, a police chaplain, a mixed martial arts fighter. They are all now accused of taking part in this criminal enterprise. Prosecutors claim that the corrupt organization that was reached not just from the oval office but all the way to the former publicist of kanye west and even a Bail Bondsman who was caught on tape trying to access voting machines. Im joined now by a pair of former federal prosecutors elie honig and Temadaya Williams who was also Senior Counsel for the january 6th congressional committee, was maybe on air until 2 00 a. M. Last night. Elie, lets start with you. If you look at the 19 people one of those faces Mark Meadows Is already trying to get his case move from a state court to a Federal Court. Obviously thats something were Hearing Trump is also going to try to do. Do you think theyll be successful . Its an interesting and i think important gambit by mark meadows, and surely donald trump will follow. This body of law goes back to the early 1900s and it basically says if somebody who was a federal official gets charged criminally by a state or county as in a d. A. , then if the conduct relates to your job as a federal official you can move over to Federal Court. I think we dont i think its a 5050 chance if he succeeds. But if he does heres what it means. It means first of all he gets a much better jury pool because instead of just drawing from Fulton County which went 72 to 26 against donald trump, now youre drawing from the Northern Counties of georgia, some of which went 60, 70 for donald trump. But more importantly, if you get to Federal Court the next move if they win, theyre going to ask to dismiss on the basis of immunity. Theyre going to say as federal officials were immune. Thats how high the stakes are. But if trump does that, am i correct that if he got charged it would still be State Charges not federal charges . It would be basically State Charges even the Chief Of Staff<\/a>, mark meadows, now seeking to move the prosecution against him to a Federal Court<\/a> in hopes of getting it dismissed. Will it work in well see. As for trumps next move, its a lot like his previous ones. He is now claiming finally he has the evidence to prove the election was stolen when he has filed to do so for nearly three years. Also tonight there is growing desperation and frustration being felt throughout hawaii a week after the Deadly Wildfires<\/a> broke out. People are still missing. Fires are still burning. And families are still waiting for word on their missing loved ones. Im Kaitlan Collins<\/a> and this is the source. Tonight we are learning new details following last nights indictment including on where donald trump will likely be surrendering. The Fulton County<\/a> Sheriffs Office<\/a> says that he is expected to be booked at the Fulton County<\/a> jail. The big question tonight, of course, is still when. The Sheriffs Office<\/a> said in a new statement that it is expected all 19 criminal defendants named in the new indictment will be booked there. There are ten more days for this group to voluntarily turn themselves in. The jails open 24 7. The Sheriffs Office<\/a> says they can come whenever they want. In the meantime, trump is focusing on proving claims that he has been making without basis for nearly three years now. The former president is now promising to finally reveal evidence next monday about his Election Fraud<\/a> claims. Maggie haberman has reporting on whats behind those socalled plans. And shell join me in just a mo moment. Its important to note, though, trumps claims have never been proven in any venue or any courtroom. Thats something that the Georgia Governor Brian Kemp<\/a> noted today after trump teased that News Conference<\/a> saying, quote, the 2020 election in georgia was not stolen. Meanwhile, trumps attorney turned codefendant Rudy Giuliani<\/a> weighed in today on when he expects to turn himself in. Ill pick a day next week, try to work out the conditions of bail. There has to be bail. Im anxious to fight this case. I woke up this morning more excited than i have in weeks. He said why . Because ive got a fight on my hands and a justifiable one. Were going to beat these fascists into the ground. Im the same Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. I havent changed one bit. Except he has. He is now on the other side of the law that he used to Jail Mobsters<\/a> as a federal prosecutor. Meanwhile, mark meadows, trumps former Chief Of Staff<\/a>, is now the first of the codefendants to try to get his portion of the case moved from a state court to a Federal Court<\/a>. His legal team is now arguing tonight that charges in the indictment pertain to actions he took while he was serving in the white house and they intend to submit they say at a later date why the case against him should be dismissed under federal law. Im joined tonight by Maggie Haberman<\/a> of the New York Times<\/a> also the author of Confidence Man<\/a> the Making Of Donald Trump<\/a> and the breaking of america. Maggie, i mean, trump i feel like weve seen this movie before, where he is promising to finally reveal something that he has been teasing, especially the Election Fraud<\/a> claims that have never been borne out. But you have new reporting on whats behind what were expecting to see on monday. So jonathan swan, my colleague, and i reported earlier today that aides and allies of trump woke up this morning several hours after this indictment was filed accusing him of trying to subvert the 2020 election as part of a conspiracy to discover that he had posted on truth social saying he has a major News Conference<\/a> on monday where hes going to release a report. Now, that report in question turns out to refer to a document crafted or, you know, created at least in part by Liz Harrington<\/a>, a Trump Communications<\/a> aide, and it refers to georgia and it is going to address what she is i think and whoever she was working on it with, was widespread fraud. Now, we know those claims have been debunked over and over and over. Brian kemp, the states governor, again tried to denounce this today and say the election was not stolen, lets move on. The reason the presence of Liz Harrington<\/a> is interesting is that she is connected to a key scene in the Documents Indictment Where Trump<\/a> is waving around according to prosecutors a classified document, or a secret document as he refers to it, that he acknowledges he could have declassified as president and she is one of the women quoted in the recording of that, we have been told by multiple sources. Whether this actually happens remains to be seen. So the person who is named in one of the other indictments that is facing him is now helping him respond to this latest indictment. Correct. And it speaks to the way that world works right now. A number of the people who were around him either as advisers or as lawyers or you know, all kinds of other people are connected to these cases in various ways. They are witnesses in some cases. You know, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is clearly coconspirator number 1 in the federal indictment against trump related to january 6th and trying to overturn the election results, and he is indicted in georgia. And so it just creates this culture that weve just never seen before. There are so many codefendants listed in this new indictment, which immediately made me think of the concern that he has about the potential for them to i mean, theres a lot of opportunities for people to cooperate here. There are. And he is aware of that. And it is one of the things that i believe has concerned him about this indictment. Also the fact that it is in state court. It is not something he can control if he becomes president again, although i think theres an argument as to whether a state case would actually go forward against a sitting president the way this is. But yes, these are this is many tentacled. Its big. Its voluminous and theres a lot of allegations in it and there are a lot of people connected to it, not all of whom are in his direct orbit 37 thats the other thing to bear in mind. Yeah, the second half of that list is Coffee County<\/a> officials who arent directly connected to him. Mark meadows is, though. And to see his name as i was reading through, reading mark randall meadows, just stood out. He hasnt been indicted in the other cases. Hes now the first one to try to say, well, i was just fulfilling my official white house duties and thats why hes trying to get it moved to a Federal Court<\/a> here. Its an argument that i expect that former President Trump<\/a> will make too, which is that they were acting under the color of their jobs and this is something that belongs in Federal Court<\/a> because of that. Im not surprised to see meadows make that argument. Like you, it was striking to see his name in this indictment because his name has been at the center of this whole issue as its been investigated for the last 2 1 2 years but you are correct, he was not one of the coconspirators mentioned as best as we could tell who they were in the jack smith indictment. He has not been charged federally. He has been much less of a presence than we are used to around donald trump. And he is one of the people about whom i think the former president is the most concerned about what they may or may not have said. Certainly a lot of aides around trump are concerned about what he may or may not have said in various investigations. Also the questions of how that affects what jack smith is trying to do. Clearly if hes trying to use him. The other thing, just reading through the indictment, a lot of it is things that we knew that had happened, what they did. But also i was just struck, 12 of the 161, you know, overt acts as fani willis referred to them were trumps tweets. Yeah. And public and others were public statements. Yeah. I mean, this is look, we talked about this a lot with the tweets, that they were just things he was doing, there was that joke about i was about to write a story and trump just tweeted it out, right . I mean, this was literally they were planning all these actions and trump just tweeted it out. Their argument is going to be the trump teams, that this is free speech and that he had a right to say all of these things. And fani williss argument is that individual actions dont have to be criminal on their own but part of a broader conspiracy, which is what shes charged they are. It is why trumps aides and lawyers over a very long period of time wanted him to stop tweeting the way he did and would like him to do less truth social posting the way he is now. It just doesnt get heard the way it used to. But hes announcing ive got this huge Press Conference<\/a> that as youre reporting, a lot of people didnt know about. One question i had last night thinking on this is how this affects what hes doing with the debate. I mean, before this we were told hes not going to hes not showing up to the debate next wednesday. But now that hes got this time crunch to turn himself in to actually show up in Fulton County<\/a> do you think that could change the calculus at all that he has . He has two days until after the debate to turn himself in technically. I think that he is likely to stick to a plan. Theres been some discussion today about will this be like right after the access Hollywood Tape<\/a> in october 2016 when he went to st. Louis to debate Hillary Clinton<\/a> and that set him back on a path toward winning. But his whole campaign was riding on that debate as one former aide pointed out to me today correctly. Thats not the case here in terms of the primary. I think it could impact his impulse to defend himself. I still think its unlikely that he shows up. But again, its him. You never really know until he does or doesnt do it. Youve covered new york politics for a long time. Youve covered Rudy Giuliani<\/a> for a long time. You have seen him go from this heroic figure to him today saying hes going to beat the fascists into the ground, i believe was the quote that he used. I mean, what do you make of the fact that the Racketeering Law<\/a> he used to use to prosecute members of Organized Crime<\/a> here in new york is now being used against him in Fulton County<\/a> . For people who dislike Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, of which in new york politics and among new york city voters there are many, they feel as if this is the ultimate irony. For people who really liked Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and thought he was a good mayor, they feel as if this is a tragedy. It is surreal hearing him saying hes really excited about this indictment because i cant imagine that he ever thought it would be fun or engaging or a fun fight to be accused of racketeering. I mean, this is somebody who was a Renowned National<\/a> figure for busting mobsters using a similar law, and that he has in a quest basically to be relevant, to stay around former President Trump<\/a>, ended up here is very upsetting to the people who still care about him. Hes also running out of money. Cnn i dont know about running out. I think he may be out. Hes putting up his apartment here in new york for 6. 5 million in a sign of thats not going to end. He has more cases even just this week alone i believe when it comes to his law license and the comments he made in georgia. One of the ironies right now in the situation around donald trump is you will hear some of his advisers say hes really upset that rudy got indicted or leaning into this, he was really worried about rudy, but not so worried that he was going to pay giulianis legal bills. And this has been an issue over and over and over again. And people who are still close to giuliani will try to xwlam the Republican National<\/a> committee or this former aide to trump or this person. This is trump. According to my reporting, it was trump who didnt want giuliani paid unless giuliani delivered on his promises. And obviously that didnt happen. Maggie haberman. Its never going to end. Well, something will everything will end eventually. But this part not right now. On that lighthearted note thank you so much, maggie. All right. From a Bail Bondsman<\/a> to a former publicist for kanye west were going to look at the 18 others who have been charged alongside trump in the state of georgia. And four indictments, four jurisdictions in fourplus months. Is there a way out for donald trump . Well talk about that with legal analysts next. We never just see the numbers, we see the peoeople. My dad Started Trek In A Red Barn<\/a> in waterloo, wisconsin. And now it spans the glo. You wanna take what was given to you and youanna build it. And you wanna passt along. If i can do that, i would have done well. Thats why were here. To help make it happen. How can you sleep on such a firm setting . Gab, mine is almost the same as yours. Almost is just another word for not as good as mine. Save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition<\/a> smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery<\/a> when you add a base. Shop now only at sleep number. Astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays<\/a> take hours. With astepros unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go janet so much space . That open kitchen tanya oooh definitely the one ethan but how can you sell your house when were stuck on a Space Station<\/a> for months . . . brian no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. janet nice intercom flightdeck, see you at the house warming. This is the reality for donald trump. Indictment after indictment after superseding indictment. The stack of legal problems keeps growing for donald trump. What is different here in georgia, the new indictment that we got last night, is the scope here. Its not just in the law but its also in the number of people that are involved. There are names you know, people you would recognize like trumps former white house Chief Of Staff<\/a> mark meadows, the former mayor of new york turned personal attorney Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, as well as other attorneys who you saw frequently on tv or around the oval office in the days after the 2020 election. But then there are other lives that have now been forever altered by their connection to donald trump in that time. Like the president of a Swimming Pool<\/a> company, a police chaplain, a mixed martial arts fighter. They are all now accused of taking part in this criminal enterprise. Prosecutors claim that the corrupt organization that was reached not just from the oval office but all the way to the former publicist of kanye west and even a Bail Bondsman<\/a> who was caught on tape trying to access voting machines. Im joined now by a pair of former federal prosecutors elie honig and Temadaya Williams<\/a> who was also Senior Counsel<\/a> for the january 6th congressional committee, was maybe on air until 2 00 a. M. Last night. Elie, lets start with you. If you look at the 19 people one of those faces Mark Meadows Is<\/a> already trying to get his case move from a state court to a Federal Court<\/a>. Obviously thats something were Hearing Trump<\/a> is also going to try to do. Do you think theyll be successful . Its an interesting and i think important gambit by mark meadows, and surely donald trump will follow. This body of law goes back to the early 1900s and it basically says if somebody who was a federal official gets charged criminally by a state or county as in a d. A. , then if the conduct relates to your job as a federal official you can move over to Federal Court<\/a>. I think we dont i think its a 5050 chance if he succeeds. But if he does heres what it means. It means first of all he gets a much better jury pool because instead of just drawing from Fulton County<\/a> which went 72 to 26 against donald trump, now youre drawing from the Northern Counties<\/a> of georgia, some of which went 60, 70 for donald trump. But more importantly, if you get to Federal Court<\/a> the next move if they win, theyre going to ask to dismiss on the basis of immunity. Theyre going to say as federal officials were immune. Thats how high the stakes are. But if trump does that, am i correct that if he got charged it would still be State Charges<\/a> not federal charges . It would be basically State Charges<\/a> even the State Prosecutor<\/a> picked up, moved across the street to the Federal Court<\/a>house. Obviously this is something they would try to potentially appeal. Do you think this is something that could reach the Supreme Court<\/a> . I would fully expect it to reach the Supreme Court<\/a>. I think here it is a novel issue, whether President Trump<\/a> was acting under the color of law here. But i think the distinction thats really important here is drawing the line between Candidate Trump<\/a> and President Trump<\/a>. And whats clear is that committing crimes while being a federal official does not grant you immunity. Just because President Trump<\/a> was in the white house he was not free to engage in criminal acts and claim he was doing it because he was president. And drawing that distinction here is going to be key. What about the fact youre hearing from people like mark meadowss attorneys but also other aallies of trumps online who are kind of having this commentary cherriypicking from this to say placing calls is not illegal, tweeting is not illegal. Sure. But if youre doing it in furtherance of a crime is the point that the District Attorney<\/a> is making in the indictment. Thats what makes it illegal. Thats right. We have to all be on watch for this technique and Defense Lawyers<\/a> do this. It can be an effective taikt. Tak tactic. Take one narrow slice of the indictment and say whats wrong with that, whats rong with a tweet, whats wrong with making a call. And the prosecutors come back and say its part of the grander conspiracy, it was a necessary way to spread the fraud, it was a necessary way they pressured these officials. Dont fall for that trick of look at this one thing, who cares. Its the whole picture. One person we heard from today since we were talking about this and reading through this indictment last night is Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. And hes kind of making the argument for himself of what he believes should happen here in addition to mark meadows. The federal statutes say that when you when you indict a someone for things they did in federal office or things that, for example, i did as an agent for someone in federal office it should be removed to the Federal Court<\/a>. An agent for someone in a federal i mean, how does that he wasnt being paid by the taxpayers. Just because trump put him in charge of those efforts, could he still have leeway to make that argument . Certainly not. Theres just no basis for this argument. Mayor giuliani frankly is just making this up. Just being sent to do something by a candidate for future office does not somehow grant you protection under the statute. Its simply wrong. Okay. So no chance for Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, you think . I think no chance there. What do you make of mark meadows . He is indicted here. He is not indicted by jack smith in that investigation into efforts to overturn the election. Do you think jack smith is unhappy about this . Does this mess up his plans . It certainly escalates the mystery around mark meadows. If mark meadows was cooperating with jack smith, that could be, we dont know, hes not named in the indictment, hes not one of the coconspirators people suspect he is. Lets operate with that. If we assume he is, this indictment by fani willis blows that up. It is a major problem for jack smith because when you have a Cooperation Deal<\/a> the deal is youre going to own up to everything youve done and im going to make sure that youre clear for everything else. Now if out of left field we get this new indictment and now Mark Meadows Is<\/a> looking at state rico charges, that could be a real problem. The other thing were learning about jack smiths investigation which just broke a few moments before we got on air is when they were seeking access, the federal investigators, to trumps twitter account, they were specifically looking for direct messages apparently of which there were many. Its not clear that those were ones that trump sent. What would they be looking for in those direct messages of his . Well, at the core of any criminal case is defendants state of mind. The prosecutors are consistently trying to get into what the defendant was thinking to show that he had criminal intent. And here President Trump<\/a> still to this day continues to argue that he wasnt acting improperly, that he didnt mean to do anything illegal here. So direct messages when its not in the public spotlight, his private thoughts, that could be key evidence against him. Elie, what do you make of that . No, i agree. Donald trump famously you would know. Doesnt text or email people, right . But if hes using that dm function, i would want to get right into that. That could be really valuable. Yeah, it seems like something that would be a surprise to a lot of people. A lot of developments, a lot of late nights ahead. So thanks for being here with us. All right. In light of this fourth indictment some of trumps 2024 rivals are once again defending him. A few are not mincing words. That luz my next guest, who has personal experience prosecuting racketeering cases like the one trump is now facing. Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson<\/a> is here next. Let Innovation Refunds<\/a> help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to bui an outdoor patio. Clk dr. Marshall used part of his refd to give his practi a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds<\/a> help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. 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The former president s trials and tribulations extend from the courtroom well, several of them to the campaign trail. One of his opponents for the republican nomination also happens to be a former u. S. Attorney who has prosecuted rico cases, this kind of Conspiracy Charge<\/a> that donald trump is now facing in georgia, in the past. Joining me now, asa hutchinson, the former governor of arkansas, former u. S. Attorney. Of course as we noted who has prosecuted these kinds of cases. Good evening, governor, and thanks for being here. Youve now had time to read this indictment. How worried do you think that trump and these 18 codefendants should be . Well, i think theyre very frustrated that these charges are brought in state court. They see this as something thats going to be all cuk allconsuming, its going to drag on for some time. These are serious charges. Its a difficult environment for them. And theres a lot of work to be done. And the biggest challenge both for the prosecution and the defense is that theres multiple, multiple defendants. And that complicates the trial in every way. I dont see how this case can be resolved before the election. I think it will be one of the last ones that will be resolved. And quite frankly, i think the State Prosecutor<\/a> in georgia should have deferred to jack smith and the Special Counsel<\/a> as they had investigated and pursued the indictment surrounding january 6th. That from my experience is what ordinarily happens whenever you have overlapping federal jurisdiction and state jurisdiction, the federal jurisdiction usually is deferred to by the State Prosecutor<\/a>. So you agree with Chris Christie<\/a> because he has said similar basically, that he thinks the state should have deferred, especially since that other indictment from jack smith came first. But given that youre saying that, you are a former federal prosecutor. I mean, youve worked on this. Youve pursued Racketeering Charges<\/a> in the past. So what did you make of District Attorney<\/a> fani williss application of whats known as these rico charges and how this case was ultimately put together . Well, ive always thought that the call that was made by President Trump<\/a> to the secretary of state of georgia was not a perfect call, it was problematic, it crossed lines that alerts any prosecutor that theres something wrong here. And of course shes further investigated it and brought these charges. My reaction to it is that this would not stand under a federal racketeering charge but under a state Racketeering Charges<\/a> in which the overt acts or the acts that are carried out in furtherance of the racketeering is much broader in state court. And so it is substantive in state court. It should stick in state court in the sense that i dont think it will be subject to a dismissal. There is a question as to whether it can be removed to Federal Court<\/a>. But the it does fit within the georgia Racketeering Charges<\/a>. And georgias one of the few states that actually have state rico statutes. Yeah. Most of these are just simply left at the federal level. And theyre kind of modeled in georgia after those federal laws as well. On this indictment what weve heard so far from your fellow 2024 challengers, this is a bit of that. I think its an example of this criminalization of politics. We see the legal system being weaponized against political opponents. That is unamerican and unacceptable. You know, governor, when we hear those comments from Governor Desantis<\/a> and senator scott, from a lot of republicans what we heard was first, you know, we cant impeach trump, this should be left to the courts. Now hes been indicted and now suddenly their refrain is how the legal system is being weaponized, that this should be left to voters. But of course when it was left to voters in the 2020 election trump lost that election, he lied about it, he tried to overturn it, and that is why we are here where we are tonight. I mean, how do you even debate a circular argument like the one you hear from your fellow republicans on that . Well, its hard to hold anyone accountable for their actions with that argument. And here ive always said that donald trump is morally responsible for what happened on january 6th. Were testing the court system as to whether hes criminally responsible. And the facts and the law will govern that. Im here in iowa. And what i see from the voters is that, one, theyre totally overwhelmed by the number of indictments and the chaos that surrounds these charges. It divides our country. Some say they should never have been brought, these charges, that its politicization of the Justice Department<\/a>. Others say it should have been brought a long time ago. Were divided on the issue. And so the first action is that its going to be the voters who will decide. But at the same time what im seeing is that the voters are frustrated. They believe that donald trump has broken their trust, he has misled voters, and thats what he has to be held accountable for when he misled his supporters about the 2020 election and that it was stolen from him when he knew better. Of course a big question is next week is the debate. We are hearing that donald trump is not expected to show up. A big question for you is whether or not you will be there. You have met the polling threshold. You have not yet met the minimum donors. Please tell me if thats different. Where will you be, governor, next wednesday night . I plan on being on the debate stage there in milwaukee. Youre right. Weve met the polling threshold. We havent met the Donor Threshold<\/a> of 40,000 how close are you . Weve got five days still left to do it. Getting closer every day. I wont give you exact number. But i like the trend line in which were moving toward that goal. So i need everybodys help to get there because you need my voice on that debate stage. Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson<\/a> asa go ahead. Asa2024. Com. That can help me get on the debate stage. Thank you. We will see if you are there next wednesday night. Governor, thank you for your time tonight. Thank you. Great to be with you. The January 6th Committee<\/a> laid out essentially what appears to be a road map for prosecuting trump. Now that theres another Election Interference Indictment<\/a> in georgia were going to speak to a former member of that congressional committee, congressman adam schiff, how he sees this fourth indictment against trump, next. Ill always take care of you. Im gonna hold you forever. Be by your side. Ill be there. Heres how tommy lost 30 lbs on noom weight. Im tom. Noom helped him use psychology to lose weight. The mindful aspect made me feel more conscious about what i was eating and why i was eating it. Its actually working. Lose weight and make it last with noom weight. David im david goldberg, a bilingual Elementary School<\/a> teacher and president of the california teachers association. As we start a new school year, theres something new happening in californias public schools. Jessie theyre called Community Schools<\/a>. David where parents and families, students and educators are Making Decisions<\/a> as one. Damien its a real sense of community. Leslie we saw doubledigit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. David its an innovation thats transforming our public schools. Narrator californias Community Schools<\/a> reimagining public education. House republicans jumping to Donald Trumps<\/a> defense in the latest indictment that hes facing, saying the new charges against him they believe are politically motivated. House speaker Kevin Mccarthy<\/a> says President Biden<\/a> has weaponized the government he claims against trump and that District Attorney<\/a> fani willis, who led those charges you saw last night, is following his lead. Joining me now democratic congressman adam schiff, a former member of the january 6th house select committee, also running for senate in california. Congressman, thanks for being here tonight. This is now the fourth time that trump has been indicted. I know we hear from democrats every time that those indictments have come down, but do you think voters have already made up their minds . Are they desensitized to these indictments . I think that there is still a great Many Americans<\/a> who are going to be very interested to watch these trials. And im particularly grateful that in georgia that trial is likely to be televised. Ive been urging the judicial conference and wrote a letter to that conference with dozens of my colleagues urging that the federal proceedings be televised because i think its going to be enormously important that those people who have an open mind get to watch, that its not filtered in one way or another. So i applaud the hard work of the grand jury in Fulton County<\/a>, the willingness to go forward, and im glad the American People<\/a> are going to get to watch at least one of these trials. And im particularly also struck by how much the georgia indictment really tracks the work of the January 6th Committee<\/a>, in particular the hearing that i led. And its i think very similar to the federal january 6th indictment in tracking the work of our committee. First on the cameras, you did sign that letter asking, you know, the judge for the january 6th indictment to allow cameras to be in the room. Obviously in georgia its different than in a Federal Court<\/a>room. I mean, how much more of an impact do you think that will have . Do you think that will change voters minds on this . You know, i think there are two important impacts. The first is in the federal system and it may be very well the same in Fulton County<\/a>, the president s lawyers can go out on the courthouse steps every day after the proceedings and misrepresent what took place inside. Prosecutors, on the other hand, do their speaking in court. So there would be a very strong Asymmetric Disadvantage<\/a> for the prosecutors if the proceedings were not televised. But more than that, this is a historic set of cases and the country should be able to watch and form their own opinion of the credibility of the witnesses, of the strength of the evidence. If they only see this black box in which a verdict emerges in One Direction<\/a> or the other, it will be hard for them to have confidence in what took place inside. So i think its equally important, maybe more important in the federal care, but it would require a great departure from their usual rules. Yeah, it seems very unlikely there. Your hearings were televised. They showcased the role that mark meadows played in those efforts by trump to stay in power. What did you make of looking at this 98page indictment, seeing his name on the first page as a codefendant . Well, the absence of his name or the suggestion of his name as an unindicted coconspirator potentially in the federal indictment raised a lot of profound questions about whether he was cooperating. Those questions still continue. But certainly if youre going to lay out all the participants, all the facts in the way that this Fulton County<\/a> indictment does, all 95 pages of it, then hes going to be included because he was very much a participant in what theyve charged as a racketeering enterprise. And one of the things that also struck me is how well these facts fit that georgia statute, which is normally used for Organized Crime<\/a>. But here you have kind of A Sprawling Organized Criminal Effort<\/a> to overturn the election, and tying in all of these elements showing how they fit together, showing how some worked independently but nonetheless were part of the overall scheme to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power makes that georgia indictment pretty powerful. Given the fact that Mark Meadows Is<\/a> not named in the federal indictment, there are questions in trumps orbit by pretty much everyone who covers this of whether or not hes cooperating. Of course we cant say for sure. But if he is and jack smith is relying on him and that could cause some complications here, do you believe that the state should have deferred to the federal prosecution given the federal indictment was already issued . You know, i was listening to your discussion with governor hutchinson, and i certainly agree that in general local prosecutors will often defer to federal prosecutors, sometimes because the federal government has more resources to bear, sometimes because the penalties are stiffer. But here i have to say georgia was fully within its rights to move forward because the federal government took so long, in many respects not only was the Congress Ahead<\/a> of the Justice Department<\/a> in its investigation for a long time but so was georgia. And now its true the feds ultimately sought the indictment first. But having put all of that effort in, i can see why georgia prosecutors wanted to bring it before the grand jury. There were serious violations of georgia law. It still may be, though, that georgia ultimately says hey, Special Counsel<\/a>, you go first, we dont want to have any conflict, you know, in terms of scheduling witnesses, testimony, et cetera. I still wouldnt be surprised if thats the case provided that the federal judge keeps that case on track. Well, fani willis said last night shes seeking a trial date within six months. But she also would not answer when my colleague sara murray asked if shed been coordinating with jack smith. When you look at all of the indictments facing trump here, which one do you think should go first and how soon . Well, you know, i think if it were proceeding most logically you would have the federal january 6th indictment go first. Its the most serious set of charges. And i think the federal government has greater resources to bring that case to trial. So i would favor that. And you know, i think that theres also a question about the timing for the maralago prosecution. That doesnt pose the same conflict with georgia in terms of witnesses, timing. But i expect that none of these cases are going to go on at all simultaneously. The judges in the various jurisdictions are going to be mindful that the attorneys for the president need to be able to focus and prepare on discrete cases. But it will be worked out. But if it were proceeding i think in the most logical way the federal government would go forward with the january 6th charges, the most serious to date. Well see what that order looks like. Congressman adam schiff, thanks for your time tonight. Thank you. And up next were going to turn back to maui, where the death toll is expected to keep climbing as the emotional toll is also growing. So many families tonight are still waiting on word of their loved ones. They are seeking answers. How did lahaina become a death trap . Well get an update from hawaiis governor in just a moment. When migraine strikes, youre faced with a choice. Ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating . Or push through the pain and symptoms . With ubrelvy, theres another option. One dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain. 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Governor, thank you for being here tonight. I know you have been working on this, some news for us today, what is the latest on the ground in hawaii . Thank you. Thank you for your prayers. Our fatally cat is at 101. Weve completed 20 of the Search And Rescue<\/a>, as far as territory goes. We now have 185 Search And Rescue<\/a> individuals on the ground, plus 20 dogs. Were going to push through the recovery, much more quickly now. Hopefully, by the end of this weekend, much of it will be done. Thats one thing. Also, ill be making a major announcement here, locally, but ill share it with you now also. We will be opening the road, ive ordered the road to be open, to connect all of maui again. So that all of our people can begin to recover. I was with my Chief Of Staff<\/a> in team yesterday in west maui, we were with a pregnant woman who was seven and a half months pregnant. We needed to get her care. Were opening the road, it will be open from 6 am every morning, until ten pm for everyone. Beginning tomorrow, with some nuances here. Its a partnership with the mayor and our state commander. Our having that road open will make it possible to get some peoples lives back intact. Of course, the instant area of the impact or it will be off limits. Because that has to be protected, thats with the national guard. Weve also set up 2000 homes for people, between donations and hotel rooms at airbnbs. Theyll nibble to house virtually airy everyone whos been impacted. Were already well underway with hundreds of people in the homes. Were beginning to heal. Were also having our hearts broken day by day, as we see loss of lace. I know opening that road is going to be incredibly welcome news for a lot of people there. Who are watching tonight. And hearing that update. Hoping to get access to where their homes were. On the update you just gave us, you said the fatalities have risen from 99 people to now 101. You said 20 of the area has been searched. Obviously, 27 is an improvement for where it was. That still means theres a lot left to go. What does that mean for the death toll, do you think . Well, a lot of the fatalities occur on the road, down by the sea. Not the road that were opening up today. I think many of the fatalities that will discover a hypertension will be from there. Now well be going to the houses, were not sure what well see. We are hopeful and praying its not large, large numbers. 1000degree heat, traveling at 60 miles per hour. That is probably a segue, in some ways, to other things are interested in and concerned about. Which is why, for instance, alarms did not bring. Or why there wasnt enough time to get people out. We think that the speed of that fire will overcome houses. So weve just simply will know, when we get to those places, thats what ive been sharing for the president and everyone, were going methodically through this. Were going through it safely, out of respect and for the dignity of our people here. Yeah, i know you spoke to President Biden<\/a> today, i do have a question about the sirens. Quickly on what you are talking about there, the 101 people. One of the most gutwrenching part of this, so far only four people who have died have been able to be identified. That means theres a lot of people with loved ones who are missing who dont have answers. Wouldnt you think youd be able to have more answers from people who are still searching for their loved ones . Day by day, we have a genetic steam coming in. We have extra support that way. A lot of this, this is very different than what it was like when i was working in the hospital as a young person. Its difficult. Its difficult to recognize individuals. If youre lucky, in a circumstance like this, you get to see fingerprints. Its very hard. Thats why what were doing, were asking all of our loved friends and family in the area, who have any concern to go get swab at the Family Support<\/a> center, so we can match people genetically. This is much like you see in a war zone, what we saw with a 9 11. This has similarities to those things. Of course, totally different circumstance, causes and reasons for a fire. But thats what you have to do. Over the course of the next several weeks, well be able to confirm who passed away. But its gonna be very difficult going. You said it could take weeks, just to hear that comparison to 9 11, its an unimaginable situation, and you did mention the sirens, weve heard from residents, you feel like you got enough time to evacuate, in part, because they didnt hear sirens going off. You told wolf, my colleague wolf, those sirens were a mobilized. What does that mean . Well, a couple things. Just for historical perspective, the sirens were typically used for tsunamis. Four hurricanes. To my knowledge, at least i never experienced them. There may be some reasons for the sometimes sirens send people of mountains. And going up the mountains during the fire can be problematic. Going up the mountain when theres waves and one is what you have to do. The sirens, some are broken. And were investigating that. Like we shared with all of you. We are transparent state. I have immediately asked my Attorney General<\/a> to do a full review of everything. The decisions policies, policies on water, of course, the sirens. A lot of people would have, im sure, at least been alerted more quickly. That is important. Normally, we communicate in hawaii by, essentially, person to coconut wireless, they joke, connection where everybody hears you immediately about anything major. Car accident happens, a drowning occurs, wonderful moment in hawaii. But the sulfones were immobilized. The power lines were down. We had no service. There was no communication, that made it difficult to communicate back to the fire folks, i believe. What happened was, the fire had been going on earlier in the day, to the late afternoon. And then was put out. And then i spoke to individuals yesterday, in west mally. When i was there visiting with survivors. They said the fire then begin again after the Fire Fighters<\/a> had to go fight another fire. You know, had that fire been putting out again in that moment, we would not have had the tragedy, they were fighting other fires by that point. The truth is, it was a very difficult situation, and the winds sent that Fire Spiraling<\/a> through the town. A lot of questions, i know, you also want answers to. Governor josh greene, i know you have a Press Conference<\/a> coming, up we are thinking of your state right now. Thank you for providing that update, not only on the numbers here, these are people behind those numbers. Everyone remembers that. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you for caring about us. Well be right back, just a moment. The coach. The manager. And the snack dad. D. All using chase to keep up with theheir finances. The coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. Anddd check this out. The manager deposited a check. Magic. And the snack dad . Hes getting paid back. Orange slicesss. Because this team all has chase. Smart bankers. Convenient tools. One bank with the power of both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. This is jabra enhance select. Its more than just a hearing aid. Its a Smart Hearing Solution<\/a> that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. With jabra enhance selects premium package, better hearing doesnt have to start in a doctors office. It starts with our free online hearing test. You can fine tune your settings with your remote audiology team. With jabra enhance select you can get the same advanced Hearing Aid Technology<\/a> and professional care you expect from a clinic at a fraction of the cost. For a limited time, get 300 off select hearing aid models. Visit jabraenhance. Com he snores like an angry rhino. Youve never heard an angry rhino. Baby i hear one every night. Every night. Okay. Ill work on that. Save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition<\/a> smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery<\/a> when you add a base. Shop now only at sleep number. My cpa told me i wouldnt qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called Innovation Refunds<\/a>. Their team of independent Tax Attorneys<\/a> will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your Small Business<\/a> qualifies. Thats why Comcast Business De<\/a> is launching theal. Mobile made free event. With our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. Its our best internet. Powered by The Next Generation<\/a> 10g network and with 99. 9 reliability. Plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. Its the mobile made free eventhappening now. Get started for just 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. Comcast business, powering possibilities","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia600509.us.archive.org\/8\/items\/CNNW_20230816_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins\/CNNW_20230816_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins.thumbs\/CNNW_20230816_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240707T12:35:10+00:00"}