This is gps, the Global Public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I am Fareed Zakaria coming to you live from new york. Today on the program, tensions and deaths mount in the middle east as the world watches and awaits israels expected Ground Invasion of gaza. Ill talk to former Prime Minister ehud barack who is also one of israels most decorated soldiers. Well talk about fighting hamas, a potential Ground Invasion and whether a divided israel has been united by war. Then retired general David Petraeus led the american militarys fight against insurgents in iraq, afghanistan and more. What lessons from those wars should israel take into its war on hamas. Ill ask petraeus and his coauthor on a new book, Andrew Roberts. But first, heres my take. The crisis in the middle east has revealed an important reality about the world. While american influence may not be what it once was, it is still true that no other country can replace the u. S. As the pivotal player on the global stage, but to retain that influence it will need to act wisely and go further than it has yet done. Consider how absent russia and china have been from this crisis. Over the last few years, both powers have tried in various ways to inject themselves into the region. Russia built up its links with israel, china helped build the resumpings of diplomatic ties between saudi arabia and iran and yet, since the gaza crisis broke, neither has been able to play any role in diffusing tensions or providing solutions. The United States, by contrast, has been actively engaged from the start. President bidens first order of business was to condemn hamas Terror Attacks and stand in solidarity with israel. Having done this eloquently, he has now shifted to giving them cautionary advice. He urged israel not to be consumed with rage and reminded them of the United States response to 9 11, admitting that washington consumed with fear and anger made mistakes. One hopes israel is listening. The president is right. The u. S. Made a series of disastrous decisions after 9 11 for which it is still paying a price. It rushed to build a big new Bure Bureaucracy for Homeland Security comprising hundreds of thousands of people and expanding two organizations and trampling on individual rights, adding to governmental secrecy and sanctioning what many would describe as torture. Washingtons military strategy was also flawed from the start. Rather than focusing narrowly on the people who planned and executed 9 11, it adopted a vast and ambitious approach that in george bushs words made no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them. So the country went to war not just against al qaeda, but also against the taliban trying to ensure that the latter would never again rule afghanistan, a goal that entailed a 20year war that america lost. And of course, it also went to war against Saddam Hussein in iraq. Washingtons response to 9 11, the wars, the bureaucracy and more has had a price tag by one estimate of 8 trillion. The lessons for israel are clear, a Ground Invasion into gaza is an emotional response to hamas terror attack. Israel is responding with Something Big and bold, demonstrating it can go beyond a tit for tat approach and do something dramatic, but is that wide . Such a course would Meier Thealyways in the tunnels of gaza. It would produce more Human Tearian tragedies in gaza, fur further enraging those in gaza it Turning Opinion into israel. Even if it wins, what would it have won . Who will govern gaza . Who will equip the battle in what will most certainly be an insurgency against its authority. No country will touch that tank so it would fall to israel. The most decorated soldiers and rightwing political figures ariel sharon chose to get out of gaza. The best response to it is not to lose your head. In the past, israel had often re responded to Terror Attacks by biding its time, tracking down those who planned and execute the mission and then killing them. That was its response to the 1972 munich chose to get out of gaza. The point of terrorism is to provoke an overreaction. The best response to it is not to lose your head. In the past, israel had often responded to Terror Attacks by biding its time, tracking down those who actually planned and executed the mission and then killing them. That was its response to the 1972 munich olympic attacks. If washington had approached al qaeda with a similarly strategic and targeted approach, the u. S. Would be in a far better position today. In addition to his counsel of caution, biden should press the Israeli Government to provide some political pathway for palestinian aspirations. For decades, the United States under both democratic and republican administrations was seen as an effective broker between the two sides. Palestinian officials trusted american diplomats like mark mendic, dennis ross because they worked tirelessly to find a path to a palestinian state. The u. S. Pressed the plo to recognize israel, but it also pressed israelis to stop building settlements. All those efforts have petered out as Palestinian Leadership proved feckless and israel has been ruled by a series of rightwing governments that did not believe in a twostate solution and have increased settlements and have turned a blind eye to the condition of palestinians. These are ideal conditions for hamas which argues that there is no nonviolent negotiated solution and that acts of terror are the only option. This is all a tall order for american diplomacy, but the alternative is to let this Crisis Fester which could easily result in violence that is even worse than what we are now seeing. Go to cnn. Com fareed for a link to my Washington Post column this week. To the east, some 90 palestinians have been killed in the west bank since october 7th, many of them in settler attacks according to human rights groups. More than 700 palestinians have been arrested there including almost 500 who are affiliated with hamas according to the idf. On israels west flank lies gaza where hamas is headquartered and where the death toll is now 4,500. On its Border Israel is massing troops and material and an Idf Spokesman said yesterday that the countrys military is focusing on readiness for the next stage of its war. Meanwhile, 28 trucks carrying food and medicine were able to transit Into Gaza Yesterday by The Rafah Crossing from egypt. 15 more are set to cross today. Joining me now from amman, jordan, is cnns nara basher. Tell us something about the humanitarian agency in gaza, because this is a trickle of what would be needed to keep these people alive. Absolutely. A trickle is certainly the best way to describe it fareed. We havent seen that influx of aid that is so desperately needed inside the gaza strip. As you mentioned there, 15 trucks have been moved toward the crossing area seen by the cnn teams toward the rafah border on the egyptian side and theyve passed and crossed into the gaza strip and of course, there is a huge amount of International Pressure on getting aid into those inside gaza. We know that the civilian death toll is mounting. We know that hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced and this is all being exacerbated by the ongoing siege, no fuel, water, food or electricity is getting in, and weve heard the warnings from the aid groups on the ground. Weve heard the warnings from the medical teams on the ground who are struggling to continue to provide crucial medical support during this siege and now, of course, weve had the warnings from the United Nations saying what we are witnessing now is a humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in gaza. We have the ongoing siege of no food, water, fuel or electricity is getting in, and weve heard the warnings from the aid groups on the ground. Weve heard the warnings from the medical teams on the grounds who are struggling to continue to provide crucial medical support during this siege and now, of course, weve had the warnings from the United Nations saying that what we are witnessing now is a humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in gaza. We heard earlier today from the u. N. s world food program. They are appealing for 74 million to support their Relief Efforts over the next 90 days. There is a huge appeal for International Support and we have already seen numierous countries preparing aid and getting it across appears to be the key issue at this stage. We heard from King Abdullah of jordan which has been amongst those countries with aid to travel, and he spoke about the need to get aid to gaza and the double standard that the world is seeing when it comes to providing the Human Itarian aid to gaza. Anywhere else, it would be condemned and the accountability would be enforced immediately and unequivocally and has been done before, recently in another conflict, but not in gaza. We have seen that outpouring of condemnation from leaders particularly in the middle east and we have seen that reaction and protests and solidarity with the palestinian people. Earlier today my team and i spoke to palestinian families and Palestinian Refugee families who have lived in jordan all their lives and still have Family Members inside the gaza strip. He said theyre checking them every hour and what theyre hearing from their families, they lack, electricity and running out of food and running of water and thats it. Fareed . Thank you, nada, great reporting. Stay safe. Next on gps, i speak with one of israels most decorated soldiers, former Prime Minister ehud barack. I ask him about the potential Ground Invasion when we come back. As israels Military Masses on its border with gaza ahead of an expected Ground Invasion, i want to bring in someone uniquely qualified to talk about idf strategy. Upon retiring from the idf in 1995 Lieutenant General ehud barack was israels most decorated soldier. He would go on to serve his country as Defense Minister and Prime Minister. As Prime Minister he led israel through the second intifada of Palestinian Uprising and he oversaw the massive Ground Operation in gaza against hamas in 2009. Ehud barack joins me now from tel aviv. Prime minister barack, let me begin by asking you about this siege. Do you believe it is militarily necessary to have such a dramatic cutoff of water, food, fuel which means hospitals cant operate. I dont recall when the United States have faced insurgencies in iraq that they ever imposed this kind of complete siege of a civilian population. Is it militarily necessary, do you think . Its not the utmost important element, but it is part of it and i dont believe that there is a major crisis in gaza. Basically whoever lives in the new camps, tent camps started by the anwar well get the convoys through the humanitarian corridor and would not let other gaza feel empty of medical materials for the hospital and so on. So its its important, but its not the most important element. Tell me about the goal. The netanyahu government has said the goal of the strategy is to destroy hamas. Do you believe thats possible . Yeah. I think that the goal should be to eliminate any Military Capability of hamas and its capacity to win over the gaza strait. We do not intend to erase the ideology and the wishes of doing so in members of hamas and all around the world. The Muslim Brotherhood in turkey and some people in qatar, we cannot have the Hamas Military Operator in gaza and we can do it. Of course, it cannot be completed from thes a. It will need a massive Ground Operation with thousands, probably Tens Of Thousands of boots on the ground. The Biden Administration is, from what best we can tell, cautioning israel to be careful not to go in too big, too to kind of devastate gaza completely. Again, youve done this. Is it possible or is the idea going to have to go in in massive numbers, go door to door, tunnel to tunnel, building to building. Look, i would say i never use the word in military affairs, but i would say that the 90 percent that well see in the coming days major invasion into the gaza strip. It would take even to take the part of the gaza strip would take some time and probably two weeks and three weekses and to claim the physical and the Human Results that hamas might take many weeks or several months before its completed and we are aware, we do not intend to stay forever and the whole operation has to face four different constraints and one is the hostages and the other is it would spread much wider to hezbollah and how to manage the dialogue with International Law and we are committed to the International Law and we are fully aware that our universal support and legitimacy will erode a long time in the numbers of people who are citizens and who will grow in spite of the fact that the reason is and the fact that hamas coerced them into becoming kind of human shields. We are aware of this constraint and the next one is to whom we can pass the torch because we do not intend to stay there for years to come. So all these are interactive intertwined and interconnected kind of constraints. Only those like the cabinet or the Upper Echelon of the Military Command who seeks in real time facing the data, the effects and the linkages that emerged and we cannot predict exactly how it will develop. Let me just ask you about the question you raised and who will you pass this to . Because it seems that whomever you try whether its the arabs and the europeans and weather its the Palestinian Authority in the west bank, they are not going to want to come into gaza on the back of israeli tanks. So how do you solve that problem . Well, i will tell you an anecdote in 2008, as you mentioned between one of those rounds that ended with a certain understanding and hamas made it by egypt and giving relative calmness for a year and a half and two years. In one of them it is sort of the same and why not get rid of hamas at all and pass it to someone so it approached mubarak and why dont you eliminate hamas Military Capabilities and you can withdraw with no condition from day one. After three weeks it was easier at that time and you would organize a multinational arab force led by you and probably whatever soldier and you take it for a very short period, you will bring back to the place the originally recognized on the place which is the sof rentee and the viewers might forget it and we gave gaza to the Palestinian Authority and they were removed from power and a violent coup detat by hamas. No, no, no, barack, you conquered in 60 and 70 years old and i will never, ever put my hands back into it and they would go to abu mazen and i do not want to make a long story short. Abu mazen told me, basically, i cannot see coming back into the gaza strip. I didnt like the answer, but i cannot tell you that didnt carry certain logic into it, but it was 15 years ago now after we have another 15 years of peace with egypt and jordan and after we have the Abraham Accords just two and a half weeks ago we already discussed the trilateral deal with the United States. So the arabian and israel and hamas pointing to the timing of the attack that they prepared for more than a year now in order to torpedo exactly this trilateral deal which is perceived by them and ignoring the palestinian and israel. Basically, when you think it is this way, probably what was impossible in 2018 might be possible now backed by the qatari or saudi financial kind of support and backed by the arab league and the u. N. Security council resolution. They can take it and keep it quiet for a few months after we leave and bring back the palestinian sovereignty. We have to take a break. When we come back, stay with me, barak. I will ask ehud barak whether the peace plan he proposed between israelis and palestinians so many years ago is you in a distant dream or is it something that can still be revived when we come back. From chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to go